Author Topic: Return from sick absence/ support plan (Read 2941 times)

Zoomer999 · « **on:** 03-04-21, 05:22PM »

I’m looking for advice as I have been off sick for 5 weeks and on return will need an adjustment permanently, I work in distribution and have a disability which I receive support for but as it progresses I need more support, I have been told by my manager that what I am asking for can’t be supported long term, I’m curious to know what next steps I can take, am I entitled to an occupational health referral and can I ask for the support to be put in place until occupational health referral or what would my options be? Thanks in advance

forrestgimp · « **Reply #1 on:** 03-04-21, 09:40PM »

Give access to work a ring and ask them to do a workplace assessment for you. There is no need to tell work you are doing it and they can not tell the assessor theu are not allowed on the premises.

They will assess your job and make recommendations for any reasonable adjustments that can be made to accommodate you being able to carry on working which can include remodelling the building.

A company the size of Tesco can not argue that cost is a problem so dont worry on that score and if your manager decides they wont make the adjustments in the report (a report sent to you not them so they cant bull you) and you leave the company because of it they will have to explain to a tribunal why they refused.

Welshie · « **Reply #2 on:** 03-04-21, 11:53PM »

Certain illnesses are covered by disability law which mean you can't be sacked but not all . An employer has a duty to make REASONABLE adjustments to enable you to do your job . Initial return to work adjustments are usually for an 8 week period and after that your fitness to do your job will be looked at again . They do have the right to terminate your contract if it is believed and OH have confirmed that you may not be fit to do your job again .
But the reality is Tesco is a big company , if you have a progressive illness that means your health and abilities will slowly diminish then explain that at your welcome back , look at long -term solutions, is there other jobs within distribution you'd be able to do or is there a chance you could transfer to a store .
If it is an ongoing illness that will flare up periodically explain how often this is likely to happen , what you are doing to help with this , what you're capable of during a flare-up and if after this has passed you'd be able to go back to your own job until next recurrence.
In our store people who are honest and upfront about long term illness do seem to get a lot of support and issues only seem to arise with colleagues who seem to think Tesco owe them a living and have no right to know they're ill or complain when a manager who doesn't no they're ill asked them to do something . They can only help and support you if they know what's going on .

forrestgimp · « **Reply #3 on:** 04-04-21, 08:02AM »

Well thats just plain wrong. Having a disability does not stop you from being sacked nor does it stop you losing your job if there are no reasonable adjustments that can be made to keep you in said job.

Read this.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/discrimination-at-work/checking-if-its-discrimination/check-if-your-problem-at-work-is-discrimination/

londoner83 · « **Reply #4 on:** 04-04-21, 09:34AM »

Ask for a occupational health referral and see what they recommend. Businesses have to make reasonable adjustments but if there is no hope of you ever doing the majority of your role again, of being reasonably productive or of completing any substitute role; the company may consider ill health retirement.

Its a business and it won't support a picker only picking 1 case in a 6 hour shift even if that's all your condition physically allows you to do. However as posters above have stated they should as a multi million pound business be able to adapt/provide equipment or change routines to allow you to continue in your role if at all possible.

Nomad · « **Reply #5 on:** 04-04-21, 12:26PM »

There is (or was, it may have changed) two types of ill health retirement, partial and full.

In the event of one being unable to perform their present duties, even with 'reasonable' adjustments the company will endeavour to get one to accept partial ill health retirement on the pension accrued to date, as they will claim one is unable to perform present duties but can perform other types of work which they cannot offer.

Full ill health retirement is pension based on working for the company until pension age, because one is unable to carry out any meaningful employment. Considering the extremely wide gambit of employment the company can offer i.e. distribution and stores both of which have wide ranging manual and clerical roles.

If they claim they cannot find any suitable role then the odds of any suitable role outside of the company being found would be, to any reasonable person, virtually impossible.

Welshie · « **Reply #6 on:** 04-04-21, 06:35PM »

Quote from: forrestgimp on 04-04-21, 08:02AM

Well thats just plain wrong. Having a disability does not stop you from being sacked nor does it stop you losing your job if there are no reasonable adjustments that can be made to keep you in said job.

Read this.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/discrimination-at-work/checking-if-its-discrimination/check-if-your-problem-at-work-is-discrimination/

Certain illnesses are covered by the disabilities act . Recurring illnesses such as recurring MS which means you suffer flare ups but could be fine inbetween times . Cancer which means while having treatment you could be unfit to work for long periods of time but you could recover .
Progressive illnesses are less covered as you will get gradually worse but at the same time that should give them more time to make REASONABLE adjustments.

@Forrest, you seem to think that Tesco are out to get everyone and sack everyone . My experience is much different and I personally have had reason to look into this recently

Welshie · « **Reply #7 on:** 04-04-21, 07:12PM »

Quote from: Nomad on 04-04-21, 12:26PM

There is (or was, it may have changed) two types of ill health retirement, partial and full.

In the event of one being unable to perform their present duties, even with 'reasonable' adjustments the company will endeavour to get one to accept partial ill health retirement on the pension accrued to date, as they will claim one is unable to perform present duties but can perform other types of work which they cannot offer.

Full ill health retirement is pension based on working for the company until pension age, because one is unable to carry out any meaningful employment. Considering the extremely wide gambit of employment the company can offer i.e. distribution and stores both of which have wide ranging manual and clerical roles.

If they claim they cannot find any suitable role then the odds of any suitable role outside of the company being found would be, to any reasonable person, virtually impossible.

Nomad does full ill-health retirement mean they have to make up your contributions until retirement age ? I have previously looked into this and been able to find nothing about it . Its obviously something they keep very quiet if it's still available.

forrestgimp · « **Reply #8 on:** 05-04-21, 08:00AM »

Quote from: Welshie on 04-04-21, 06:35PM

Quote from: forrestgimp on 04-04-21, 08:02AM
Well thats just plain wrong. Having a disability does not stop you from being sacked nor does it stop you losing your job if there are no reasonable adjustments that can be made to keep you in said job.

Read this.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/discrimination-at-work/checking-if-its-discrimination/check-if-your-problem-at-work-is-discrimination/

N
Certain illnesses are covered by the disabilities act . Recurring illnesses such as recurring MS which means you suffer flare ups but could be fine inbetween times . Cancer which means while having treatment you could be unfit to work for long periods of time but you could recover .
Progressive illnesses are less covered as you will get gradually worse but at the same time that should give them more time to make REASONABLE adjustments.

@Forrest, you seem to think that Tesco are out to get everyone and sack everyone . My experience is much different and I personally have had reason to look into this recently

You said they could not sack anyone, I merely pointed out that you were completely wrong, As for the rest its the same as I said earlier.

If you want I can highlight the appropriate passage in the DDA

Nomad · « **Reply #9 on:** 05-04-21, 10:54AM »

@Welshie, If you are referring to state pension then the experience I had occurred over 10 years ago with only a few years to go until state retirement age of 65, so effect on state pension of being retired by company was not looked into. Certainly would need looking into if the person was a long way from state retirement age. CAB perhaps ?

What I did experience was 'partial' being repeatedly offered by company when I felt/believed full ill health should be given, full was finally offered when the person in question was assessed by a Dr on behalf of the DHSS and was declared unfit for any work and was then given a reassessment date way past their state pension age.

Conclusion: government says unfit to work again, Tesco/pension trustees say you can, obvious who is going to win that one

NightAndDay · « **Reply #10 on:** 05-04-21, 11:34AM »

Quote from: forrestgimp on 05-04-21, 08:00AM

Quote from: Welshie on 04-04-21, 06:35PM
Quote from: forrestgimp on 04-04-21, 08:02AM
Well thats just plain wrong. Having a disability does not stop you from being sacked nor does it stop you losing your job if there are no reasonable adjustments that can be made to keep you in said job.

Read this.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/discrimination-at-work/checking-if-its-discrimination/check-if-your-problem-at-work-is-discrimination/

N
Certain illnesses are covered by the disabilities act . Recurring illnesses such as recurring MS which means you suffer flare ups but could be fine inbetween times . Cancer which means while having treatment you could be unfit to work for long periods of time but you could recover .
Progressive illnesses are less covered as you will get gradually worse but at the same time that should give them more time to make REASONABLE adjustments.

@Forrest, you seem to think that Tesco are out to get everyone and sack everyone . My experience is much different and I personally have had reason to look into this recently

You said they could not sack anyone, I merely pointed out that you were completely wrong, As for the rest its the same as I said earlier.

If you want I can highlight the appropriate passage in the DDA

Tesco can and will sack anyone, whether it falls under unfair dismissal however is another question, and something Tesco has lost multiple cases on.

Welshie · « **Reply #11 on:** 05-04-21, 12:07PM »

@Forrest by your reasoning they can sack anyone for anything and just suffer an unfair dismissal hearing .
I'm pointing out that certain illnesses are protected by disability discrimination laws .

Welshie · « **Reply #12 on:** 05-04-21, 12:10PM »

Nomad , no I meant to they make contributions to the company pension scheme as if you had worked till retirement age or do you just get what your pension is worth at time of full ill-health retirement.

Nomad · « **Reply #13 on:** 05-04-21, 02:21PM »

@Welshie, Full ill health pension is/was you got the pension you would have got if you had worked at the company until pension age, I think it's the pension trustees that have to be convinced and accept that you are not & will not be able to carry out any other form of gainful employment.

As I said the case I had experience of was over 10yrs ago, but they did accept employee was unemployable due to permanent physical limitations.

forrestgimp · « **Reply #14 on:** 05-04-21, 03:12PM »

Quote from: Welshie on 05-04-21, 12:07PM

@Forrest by your reasoning they can sack anyone for anything and just suffer an unfair dismissal hearing .
I'm pointing out that certain illnesses are protected by disability discrimination laws .

No now you are just being obtuse. Yes there are discrimination laws and yes Tesco have a duty to implement reasonable adjustments also on top of that what may not be reasonable for a one man band operation or a company with limited resources will be seen as reasonable for Tesco to implement.

However, you were adamant that Tesco could not get rid of a disabled employee at all and this is not the case they can and would if any adjustment was not deemed reasonable.

This isn't a competition however if you are going to give vulnerable people advice you need to make sure its accurate.

NightAndDay · « **Reply #15 on:** 05-04-21, 04:04PM »

They have to be seen to support employees who are disabled, it's not necessarily the case that firing a disabled person is automatic disability discrimination, it's only the case if either what was asked is unreasonable, that there was clear discrimination occurring from documented conduct cases from other employees and no suitable action taken or the support measure in place are deemed inadequate or poorly implemented.

There is a limit where employers can dismiss disabled people if they still cannot perform the role even with reasonable adjustments in place.

https://www.gov.uk/if-you-become-disabled/if-youre-in-employment-and-become-disabled

Welshie · « **Reply #16 on:** 05-04-21, 08:12PM »

@Forrest, I said some illnesses mean you cant just be sacked not that they couldn't be got rid of , yes they can be medically retired but that has to go through a process . I just dont6always put worse case scenario first as I know the impact serious I'll health has on people both mentally and financially.

forrestgimp · « **Reply #17 on:** 06-04-21, 04:19PM »

No, Read the document I linked to. If you have a disability that means there are no reasonable adjustments that can be made to keep you in your job the company is not under any obligation to make one up for you.

You cant simply tell people the disability they have means they can not lose their jobs because you as a person giving the advice have no clue.

You said you went down that route, so did you have as assessment from Access to Work who gave you a report on what would be classed as a reasonable adjustment, did occupational health get involved and also give Tesco a report on your condition or was it a mutual thing between you and your manager.

That means I have never met you I have no idea what your disability is or how severe it is, I have no idea what your job entails or the kind of help if any you need to be able to complete it or whether its simply out of the question and you need a different role.. Bearing all that in mind it would be slightly egregious of me to state 'You can not be let go if you have a disability' and I do not mean medically retired I mean lose your job.

Call it what you want if you dont like the work sacked it amounts to the same thing.

You may not put worse case scenario to people off the bat thats up to you telling them there is no way they can lose their jobs is not worse case its completely wrong.

Welshie · « **Reply #18 on:** 06-04-21, 06:17PM »

@Forrest, you seem to have difficulty with reading or comprehension of what I've written . I said they can't just sack you which is true , procedures have to be followed
I also said I'd had cause to look into this not that I had been through it . What I was looking into was specifically linked to MS .

forrestgimp · « **Reply #19 on:** 07-04-21, 04:03PM »

Quote from: Welshie on 03-04-21, 11:53PM

Certain illnesses are covered by disability law which mean you can't be sacked but not all .

These are your words from your first post specifically telling this person that with certain disabilities they can not be sacked, I pointed out you are wrong and also outlined with links to government documents how to go about getting the help needed and what to expect.

You however seem not to remember writing that.

Welshie · « **Reply #20 on:** 08-04-21, 01:04AM »

Ok I said "certain illnesses" you can't just be sacked , you could be medically retired but that is a long way down the process .
The OP is going back after 5 weeks sick , they are not going to be sacked if they have a progressive illness after 5 weeks !!! I also said to speak to them about REASONABLE adjustments and to be honest . Why do you think theyre going to be sacked after 5 weeks ?? The long term sickness meeting forms are 12-16 weeks where they actually focus on adjustments.

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Author Topic: Return from sick absence/ support plan (Read 2941 times)