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Author Topic: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway  (Read 4296 times)

RightsDefender

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Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« on: 14-02-21, 06:40AM »
Hi there. I'm just wondering if anybody can confirm or deny that you are allowed 3 minutes leeway when clocking in and out when working at Tesco. I heard that USDAW had negotiated so you could have 3 minutes to get from your car (or the bus stop) to get to and from the clocking machine. Anybody experienced this at Tesco? Be grateful for any advice. Thanks in advance.

chris9997

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #1 on: 14-02-21, 07:26AM »
Yes that is correct ,under the old system I don’t know if this is the same under work and pay.

RightsDefender

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #2 on: 14-02-21, 08:46AM »
Thanks chris9997. I am new to this forum, so I'm not sure what the old system and 'work and pay' means (sorry if I'm being dumb). I worked at a store in Lancashire (I left in January 2020). I know you may not wish anybody to know what part of the country you are in, but wondered if you would mind saying which County you're in, so that I can prove to an Employment Tribunal that this 3 minute leeway was a national thing, rather than just a Lancashire thing. Or even if you could just confirm whether you are in or outside Lancashire. I know for a fact that most of the store colleagues congregated at the clocking machine and swiped out 3 minutes before their shifts ended, but I wouldn't ask any of them to go on the record as doing so (for fear of retribution from Tesco if they did). Do you think the 3 minute leeway might be documented anywhere? Thanks.

alf

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #3 on: 14-02-21, 10:12AM »
I'd need to recheck the policy to be sure, but as far as I can remember the 3 minutes concept was part of a recurring myth/rumor where if you were late by more than 3 mins you were docked 15 minutes pay.

Though saying that, if the 3 minutes idea was common practice ( in terms of leeway) in your store, you could argue unfairness if others received this leeway and you did not, or were punished and they were not.

Katarn2000

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #4 on: 14-02-21, 10:38AM »
The 3 minutes thing is that the HRAM payroll system (the old one) doesn't flag up an exception if you clock either 3 minutes early or 3 minutes late. You are still technically late but it's tolerated by the company. Evidence would be management walking past people waiting to clock out at 57 minutes.

That's the case in 6 separate stores I've worked at in Scotland and I used to do wages. Not too fussed about being identified hahaha.
« Last Edit: 14-02-21, 10:40AM by Katarn2000 »

kaled78

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #5 on: 14-02-21, 10:49AM »
intresting to see if they try to put a stop to this under the new work and pay system,I know lots of people who leave 3 minutes early everyday and get away with it

Katarn2000

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #6 on: 14-02-21, 10:52AM »
I reckon they might.

Welshie

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #7 on: 14-02-21, 11:47AM »
I was under the impression that the "3 min rule" was more to cut down on exceptions , it was not to say yes it's fine to go home 3 mins early regularly or be 3 mins late regularly.  If your clocking were looked at it would still show that you clocked early/late .  So I think if you're talking tribunals its important to know the difference . Ie; if your usual bus meant that you couldn't clock till 3 minutes past your clock in time , you would be expected to get an earlier bus not consistently clock in 3 minutes late .

chris9997

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #8 on: 14-02-21, 02:07PM »
I'd need to recheck the policy to be sure, but as far as I can remember the 3 minutes concept was part of a recurring myth/rumor where if you were late by more than 3 mins you were docked 15 minutes pay.

Though saying that, if the 3 minutes idea was common practice ( in terms of leeway) in your store, you could argue unfairness if others received this leeway and you did not, or were punished and they were not.
The Docking of ANY money for being late is illegal and should not be happening ,under some ruling going back about 60 years

80377494

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #9 on: 14-02-21, 02:54PM »
As a wages clerk I have the 'docking' argument for lateness or leaving early at least once a week with management. I used to have the actual ACAS ruling to wave in front of them but I don't need it now as it is in the Lateness Policy which can be found on Colleague Help.

RightsDefender

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #10 on: 14-02-21, 03:02PM »
Thank you for your replies on here and also to those who have private messaged me (giving their non specific geographical area) in support. This was just one of about 12 acts of victimisation against me after I had made a whistleblowing disclosure to the lead manager of my department. I am just hoping to prove that the manager who singled me out could not possibly have not been aware of the 3 minute leeway. What actually happened in this case was that I arrived to work my evening shift when I was told (without prior warning) by my supervisor that 'Manager J' (who was not my line manager) wanted to "see me upstairs". When I replied that that sounded ominous, the supervisor said he didn't know what it was about. When I got upstairs, the manager was waiting for me alone in a meeting room and I asked what it was all about. Ironically, he then gave me my two most recent Wows, which I held up while he took my photo. Then he passed me a brown envelope containing a letter informing me the date of my appeal against a written warning (which was another victimisation issue.... which I eventually after much stress and anxiety  :'( got overturned). Then he leaned back and revealed a pre-written Let's Talk form and said, something like,"I need to have a word with you about your timekeeping. You've been late 8 times in the last 12 weeks". I replied that I hadn't been late even once and he then produced printouts on which he had highlighted where I had clocked in at either 1 or 2 minutes later than my official clocking time. He had taken no notice of the times I had clocked out at (which were always to the benefit of Tesco as I didn't do that waiting for the 3 minute thing as I just wanted to get home). This same manager also knew that on an almost daily basis that, upon arriving at the store and parking my car (and before I even clocked in and therefore in my own time), I either brought dollies of trays over from the Click'n'collect pod in the car park or if I was very early, would cover while the pod colleague nipped into the store for a loo break. The main thing is though that he denied all knowledge of a 3 minute leeway (despite him having worked at Tesco for years) and when I challenged him about how many other colleagues from my department (as mentioned, he wasn't even my line manager) he had checked the clocking times of, it turned out that I was the only one. Virtually every colleague in the store actually clocked in and/or out the full 3 minutes before and after on an almost daily basis, yet I was the only one singled out by this manager. The reason I have posed the question on here is because I just wanted to check that the 3 minute thing wasn't something that only happened in the store I worked at as it might have been more difficult to prove that the manager couldn't have not known about it if that was the case. Also, I don't think it would be fair to ask ex-colleagues who I worked with to back me up (because they all still work there). I was hoping to create an anonymous spreadsheet with the column headings "comments", "how long worked at Tesco", "County worked in" (County not Town to protect your anonymity), "3 min leeway Y or N", "date of leaving (or N/A)". I would most certainly not disclose any user-ids or anything that might identify anybody and would only include the comments, length of service, County, Leeway Y or N, DOL if you (good and kind  ;)) forum members who may wish to help were to put YYYYY at the end of their comment (or for example YNNYY if you don't mind me including your comment but don't want your length of service or County included etc). Any help that anybody can give me will be greatly appreciated (and would also be a great boost to my morale as it's pretty scary fighting a £multimillion organisation like Tesco on my own) and I will update on here with the progress of how it's going. Sorry for the essay. Thanks.
« Last Edit: 14-02-21, 03:17PM by RightsDefender »

RightsDefender

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #11 on: 14-02-21, 03:28PM »
Thank you 80377. I don't suppose you'd know where I could get a copy of the ACAS ruling do you? This would be enormously useful as evidence. Would it also be OK for me to say which County you work in and whether or not I can include your comment in an anonymous spreadsheet? Did the 3 minute leeway exist in your store then?
As a wages clerk I have the 'docking' argument for lateness or leaving early at least once a week with management. I used to have the actual ACAS ruling to wave in front of them but I don't need it now as it is in the Lateness Policy which can be found on Colleague Help.


Katarn2000

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #12 on: 14-02-21, 05:32PM »
Have you got citizens advice or union or something in your corner? You don't want to go to tribunal alone.

chris9997

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #13 on: 14-02-21, 06:19PM »
Thank you for your replies on here and also ..............
Your issue appears to be helping others on your way into work ( bringing the dollies from the outside pod relieving members of staff for a toilet break) these are issues that make you late then you really need to stop , toilet break and clearing dollies is a problem that Tesco needs to deal with.
« Last Edit: 14-02-21, 09:59PM by Nomad »

dotnochance

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #14 on: 14-02-21, 09:59PM »
I’ll just add another point to this thread even though it’s not 100% related, if say you start your shift at 9am and just say you work on checkouts-dotcom and your manager insists you be on your till and signed on bang on 9, tell him your shift starts as soon as you set foot on shop floor. I work in dotcom and the amount of arguments I’ve had when they want me in department signed onto gun-scanned labels and out the door at bang on 6am. My response is I start my shift when I hit shop floor as I could be asked something by a customer, I won’t give Tesco free time and I won’t be in shop floor minutes before I start getting paid, they still don’t get it.

RightsDefender

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #15 on: 14-02-21, 11:34PM »
These weren't the issues that made me late though. I never was late. The only reason I mentioned these favours to my colleagues was to highlight that the manager who singled me out (and claimed to have no knowledge of the 3 minute leeway) was also aware of my goodwill to these colleagues. The issue is that I was singled out by this manager and now that I know that the 3 minute leeway existed (at that time) at several stores, it will help me prove that he DID single me out (and the fact that he knew of my goodwill made what he did even more unjustifiable). Part of that proof is thanks to your earlier reply, which I am grateful for. I was subjected to a victimisation campaign which resulted in me being forced to leave in January 2020.

 
Thank you for your replies on here and also ..............
Your issue appears to be helping others on your way into work ( bringing the dollies from the outside pod relieving members of staff for a toilet break) these are issues that make you late then you really need to stop , toilet break and clearing dollies is a problem that Tesco needs to deal with.

Yorkshire Scamp

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #16 on: 15-02-21, 06:20AM »
intresting to see if they try to put a stop to this under the new work and pay system,I know lots of people who leave 3 minutes early everyday and get away with it

W&P stores have had to eradicate the 3 minute myth as the new system will flag you as missing & create an exception. The whole point of W&P is to minimise / eradixate exceptions.

Rad

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #17 on: 15-02-21, 10:41AM »
Thank you for your replies on here and also to those who have private messaged me (giving their non specific geographical area) in support........

Sorry, in my opinion the 3 minute leeway isnt a thing nationwide.  It's to do with cutting down exceptions.  If anything, in every store I've worked at for decades you would get pulled up for leaving 3 minutes early or starting 3 minutes late.

« Last Edit: 15-02-21, 03:07PM by Nomad »
 

fatboy

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #18 on: 15-02-21, 11:17AM »
Yeah & I bet you wouldn't get thanked for starting 3 mins early or leaving 3 mins late!!

Biscuit tin

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #19 on: 15-02-21, 04:03PM »
Standard practice at ours seems to be clock in on time or a bit before, get changed, go out for a fag, come back in, grab a coffee, start work.

Batmanjo

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #20 on: 16-02-21, 10:18AM »
Thank you for your replies on here and also to those who have private messaged me (giving their non specific geographical area) in support..............

Have you spoken to ACAS ? If they have told you, you have to be on your dept at your clocking in time this is incorrect that is why they have a clocking machine. The 1st Question would be do you have a locker ? the reason I ask this is because you should clock in at say 9 am start time put your personal property in the locker and then go to your dept as they require all staff at ours to use a locker for staff search purposes and when finishing you go to your locker remove personal property and clock out at 6pm. If they are saying different this may have taken you under minimum pay I am in talks with ACAS at the moment about this problem and the more that report it to them the better a case they will have as this relates to recent news of companies under paying staff and from 2017 when they were fined,I would encourage anyone who is being made to work for nothing to contact ACAS tel no is 03001231100. I am in a similar position and from the same county as you and I am also challenging them as I have it in black and white being told to clock in 2 mins before shift and not to leave station until my shift has finished. All they seem to do is lie and then get others to cover up their lies as nothing is straight forward with managers who simply seem to run on fresh air with low IQ's and a lack of self dignity. The Union is supposedly also looking into this but then not heard anything back from them yet. 
« Last Edit: 16-02-21, 10:46AM by Nomad »

dirty-donkey

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #21 on: 16-02-21, 11:40AM »
Good post Batmanjo.
This one just keeps on coming up!

Had to sit a PM down a few years ago and explain very slowly, in simple two-syllable words that these +3min late deductions were illegal and have been for 140 years.
Result was the affected person got a lot of cash back, going back years with a BIG hint that no one else should be told this 'secret'!!

Also we have had the 'Be at team five meeting at far end of warehouse two mins before the hour of shift start.' (all clocked in and locker visited)
Err..... No - don't think so!
Unfortunately many people sheepishly complied without an argument until they realised the person giving the team five often did not appear till ten-past!
We also had issues using the 'random search' at the back door with people being 15 mins late getting out.

The locker visit before/after clocking is interesting.
Must admit I never thought of locker use as part of work, but you are right Batmanjo, if they want it, they pay for it!!
Also, what would happen if a un-clocked person was trapped by fire in the locker room?
Crocodile tears would be shed by our famous 'Tosco spokesperson' He of the ever growing nose.

'The Union is supposedly also looking into this but then not heard anything back from them yet.  '
Dont hold your breath! They will bend over do as they are told.


Doris Stokes

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #22 on: 16-02-21, 03:31PM »
Zoe Lagadec, a solicitor at Mulberry’s Employment Law Solicitors, said: “Given that the employees are not free to leave their place of work until and unless the security check has been completed, this time should be considered ‘working time’ and therefore paid in accordance with the national minimum wage provisions.”

Lagadec added that docking 15 minutes of pay for clocking in slightly late is “arguably a breach of the national minimum wage, which carries both criminal and civil sanctions”.

The legal basis of her views was also confirmed to the Guardian by an employment law barrister at one of London’s top legal chambers.


taken from https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/09/how-sports-direct-effectively-pays-below-minimum-wage-pay

grim up north

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #23 on: 16-02-21, 05:43PM »
Good post Batmanjo.
This one just keeps on coming up!

Had to sit a PM down a few years ago and explain very slowly, in simple two-syllable words that these +3min late deductions were illegal and have been for 140 years.
Result was the affected person got a lot of cash back, going back years with a BIG hint that no one else should be told this 'secret'!!

Also we have had the 'Be at team five meeting at far end of warehouse two mins before the hour of shift start.' (all clocked in and locker visited)
Err..... No - don't think so!
Unfortunately many people sheepishly complied without an argument until they realised the person giving the team five often did not appear till ten-past!
We also had issues using the 'random search' at the back door with people being 15 mins late getting out.

The locker visit before/after clocking is interesting.
Must admit I never thought of locker use as part of work, but you are right Batmanjo, if they want it, they pay for it!!
Also, what would happen if a un-clocked person was trapped by fire in the locker room?
Crocodile tears would be shed by our famous 'Tosco spokesperson' He of the ever growing nose.

'The Union is supposedly also looking into this but then not heard anything back from them yet.  '
Dont hold your breath! They will bend over do as they are told.

I've never thought of this locker situation either. But you aren't allowed bags, phones in the warehouse. So how do you clock in without putting them in your locker first? Also in my DC they added a clock machine in the search room in the last couple of years. You swipe a card if you get searched

forrestgimp

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Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #24 on: 23-02-21, 12:37PM »
I have never seen anything written down that you have a 3 minute window either side of clocking in/out what I have witnessed as a union rep is a baker being threatend with losing his job and issued a final written warning because he was 1 minute late vitually every day.

I would be careful about using the 3 min rule or telling others to do it until you have it confirmed either in writting or on our tesco in the policy part. A lot of these things are myths from yesteryear.