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Author Topic: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas  (Read 3061 times)

dfl

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As the title says, staff members shifts are on xmas and new years eve when shop closes, staff member wants to just be unpaid for those shifts but manager claims its not allowed.

Any idea policy and where within it that it would state this
DFL

Morris999

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #1 on: 13-11-20, 05:46PM »
There’s no set policy just because it’s Xmas etc, other than if it’s the colleagues contracted shift and they want it off they will need to request it.
Not guaranteed to have it off mind.
Now just because the shop is shut for customers doesn’t mean there are not routines etc that still need doing.

Take checkouts for instance.
Let’s say shop shuts on Xmas eve at 19.00, there are still routines that need to be completed on checkouts before the shop can be locked/alarmed for Xmas.
The Team Support will probably be finished by 19.30/20.00 depending on how quick they get it done.
So whichever Team Support is contracted for that day will be in till the routines are completed.

It’s always a debate with whatever Team Support is in about there finishing times.

Dot com might still be delivering after shop shuts so again, will need colleagues to work past shutting time.
Then there’s the departments that get things ready to open on either Boxing Day/27th December
They will still need colleagues in.
If colleagues are contracted then they will be expected to work past shutting time till either everything’s completed or they reach there contracted finishing time.

All I’ll say is, it’s nearly impossible to get people who are not contracted to work past shop shutting time.


Welshie

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #2 on: 13-11-20, 07:19PM »
Dfl , did you not go through all this last xmas ?? What was the outcome then

dfl

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #3 on: 13-11-20, 07:38PM »
Yes I did, and had a very hard time of having to cancel arrangements I'd made at home because I was left with the impression that the company had a right to force me to change even though I'm not a flexi worker.
« Last Edit: 13-11-20, 08:36PM by Nomad »
DFL

Jimbobjones80

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #4 on: 17-11-20, 07:38AM »
I work nights and the manager is expecting us all to come in again during the day even though we finish at 7am Christmas Eve morning. Just wondering what will happen cos none of us are going to do it?

gomezz

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #5 on: 17-11-20, 09:21AM »
That sounds like a breach of the Working Time Directive.
"The progress of the kart is more important than its direction"

NightAndDay

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #6 on: 17-11-20, 09:55AM »
I work nights and the manager is expecting us all to come in again during the day even though we finish at 7am Christmas Eve morning. Just wondering what will happen cos none of us are going to do it?

Grievance as it's against the law to be made to come in for a shift with less than 11 hours rest from your last shift, as the previous comment states, it's a violation of employees rights and the WTD. https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work

lackofinterest

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #7 on: 17-11-20, 03:55PM »
Have Christmas eve off and come in boxing night instead.

Not your fault the greedy people want the shop filling so they can open boxing day.
« Last Edit: 17-11-20, 05:50PM by Nomad »

StinkyPoo

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #8 on: 17-11-20, 07:36PM »
Sounds like my store. This has happened the last couple of years. People are blackmailed into doing it :(

oldfashionedplayer

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #9 on: 18-11-20, 05:20AM »
I work nights and the manager is expecting us all to come in again during the day even though we finish at 7am Christmas Eve morning. Just wondering what will happen cos none of us are going to do it?

Grievance as it's against the law to be made to come in for a shift with less than 11 hours rest from your last shift, as the previous comment states, it's a violation of employees rights and the WTD. https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work

just one problem with that, there's the 8 hour rule that tesco allows with addition of USDAW as an exceptional circumstance with given notice for a day, often for stock take etc....

Worth a try though with the complaint or do an overtime shift and phone up sick on christmas eve :P

Jimbobjones80

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #10 on: 18-11-20, 08:57AM »
But when he’s giving day staff the day off he doesn’t have a leg to stand on

NightAndDay

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #11 on: 18-11-20, 10:09AM »
I work nights and the manager is expecting us all to come in again during the day even though we finish at 7am Christmas Eve morning. Just wondering what will happen cos none of us are going to do it?

Grievance as it's against the law to be made to come in for a shift with less than 11 hours rest from your last shift, as the previous comment states, it's a violation of employees rights and the WTD. https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work

just one problem with that, there's the 8 hour rule that tesco allows with addition of USDAW as an exceptional circumstance with given notice for a day, often for stock take etc....

Worth a try though with the complaint or do an overtime shift and phone up sick on christmas eve :P

Law takes precedence over policy, If the 11 hours rest period is a provision of the WTD, then an employee has the right to it without fear of reprisals, if they are disciplined for not giving up their legal right to an 11 hour rest break between shifts and they grievance it, not only should the personel manager have the challenging conversations with the manager, probably involving such questions about how they ended up in the position they're in but the disciolinary would be rescinded as an employment tribunal judge would be more than skeptical if it ever went that far and was used as justification if they got sacked.
« Last Edit: 18-11-20, 10:18AM by NightAndDay »

Nomad

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oldfashionedplayer

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #13 on: 18-11-20, 09:58PM »
Yeah, I'm not disputing that it would be thrown out etc and from that it says about 48 hours etc, I'm just wondering if whether the part where it mentions about the hours if you went from 11 hours instead to say 8 hours rest for that 1 shift, were given back as a rest period elsewhere (from policy) whether that would cover their ass... Cause if like to use it against them if not 😂

Welshie

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #14 on: 18-11-20, 11:17PM »
Nightshift in our store do this and yes it breaks the rest period BUT what I would remind people is , if you are contracted xmas eve you are not entitled to it off , unlike xmas day and boxing day . The point of doing the early start is so that noone is actually working nightshift on xmas eve , generally we were finished by midnight and were at least able to enjoy xmas day .
You might win the rest period argument to be told to work a full nightshift .

NightAndDay

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #15 on: 19-11-20, 01:25AM »
Yeah, I'm not disputing that it would be thrown out etc and from that it says about 48 hours etc, I'm just wondering if whether the part where it mentions about the hours if you went from 11 hours instead to say 8 hours rest for that 1 shift, were given back as a rest period elsewhere (from policy) whether that would cover their ass... Cause if like to use it against them if not 😂

The TOIL principle doesn't really work with rest breaks between shifts, it's the law, you can of course agree to less rest breaks between shifts, but it is a right, why would you deny yourself and your health the protection? Managers usually play on the ignorance of employees, arm yourself with knowledge of your rights and catch them out, the scenario you mentioned, if the manager blackmailed or forced you to do it you can refuse, I'm curious where in Our Tesco this 8 hours rest between shifts policy is as I believe it's non-existent, if it was real then that would open wider questions over the suitability of the policy makers if they would make policies not congruent with the law.
« Last Edit: 19-11-20, 01:29AM by NightAndDay »

80377494

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #16 on: 19-11-20, 04:36AM »
Last time I saw the 8 hour rest period rule it was in the Partnership Agreement with USDAW on OurTesco.

NightAndDay

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #17 on: 19-11-20, 09:20AM »
Even more questionable if it comes from a workers rights body such as a union, any union reps up for challenging USDAW about this, it undermines their position as a union if they've allowed this controversial policy in the partnership agreement, especially as it's less than required by the law.

Nomad

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #18 on: 19-11-20, 10:58AM »
Re: nightshift Xmas eve, surely such a shift would have to end at 2400 hrs on the 24th as Christmas day is 0000 to 2400 on the 25th ?
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80377494

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #19 on: 19-11-20, 01:55PM »
Found it. It's moved to Colleague Help, search USDAW Partnership Agreement, Terms and Conditions

Rest Entitlements
In addition to the break allowance, colleagues are entitled to the following periods of rest:

A minimum of one day off per week
A minimum of eleven hours between shifts (excluding split shifts). Tesco and Usdaw have agreed that, for adult workers, on occasion this can be reduced to a minimum of 8 hours between shifts, although where this is the case, compensatory rest must be given during the following four weeks. For dotcom drivers, a minimum of 10 hours rest must be given between shifts.

NightAndDay

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #20 on: 19-11-20, 02:53PM »
Sounds like this part of the agreement is at odds with the minimum required by law, would certainly be an interesting legal challenge as Unions are by and large meant to uphold minimum standards with what is in law as the minimum. If someone did challenge this I'd imagine the publicity would be focused on the lack of legal mechanisms around conduct of Union oversight and checks and balances around the employer influencing the union.

newguy20

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #21 on: 21-11-20, 10:55PM »
The 11-hour rule is a legal requirement and nothing that Tesco do or say can infringe that...

now if somebody AGREES to a shorter turn around time that's different, if it suits them somehow or if they are feeling magnanimous towards their manager or they are doing it to get some extra overtime

but nobody could be disciplined for not working a turnaround less than that

One manager complains bitterly that at one point on their rota they are finished at 10pm and back in 6am, more fool them, anywhere else i have worked rotas always go early to late, not late to early.

NightAndDay

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Re: Manager forcing non flexi to change shifts for xmas
« Reply #22 on: 22-11-20, 12:24PM »
Lates to Earlies is generally not a thing that's done intentionally, where it is set in the rota the SM asks if the supervisor is ok with that arrangement as it's not legally allowed, but not an issue if the person agrees with it.

 

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