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Author Topic: Think 25 and facemasks  (Read 9013 times)

alf

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #25 on: 30-06-20, 01:22PM »
And for the record...motorcycle crash helmets should be removed immediately prior to entering any store or PFS internal shop area. Acces to store is denied to anyone refusing to remove their crash helmet!

@alf
" if face masks were mandatory, it would be a different matter"
That was my query regarding religious face coverings. Are all age restricted items refused to these female customers?? Twould seem from the think 25 update, that this be the case ???

By mandatory I mean legally required, I believe face masks were required for some public transport for example. Though on a related note I do wish face masks were required for access to shops, but that’s a different topic.

Other face masks religious or not, are not legally mandatory, they are simply by choice and the age restricted sales policy still applies. If you cannot assess the age The sale does not continue.

Now I get the controversial nature, but as far as I know there’s no set policy for dealing with burqas or similar as I figure they are fortunately rare occurrences. And to be blunt I would rather Tesco didn’t pander to such a backwards practice.


MysteryTurkey

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #26 on: 30-06-20, 02:29PM »
.... we had a pair of pro shoplifters in the other day (£150 JD and Smirnoff) definitely using masks and gloves to hide their identities .....

In our store not even kidding we had 3 Eastern European come in and steal 2k worth of alcohol. They were seen detagging near customers on CCTV.

gomezz

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #27 on: 30-06-20, 03:39PM »
If it is not in Dave's weekly email then it is not something I need to know.

Mind you, much of what *is* in his emails I do not need to know.   ;D
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Redshoes

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #28 on: 01-07-20, 07:13AM »
Message was put out on the weekly dept news. There used to be services and checkout newsletters but they are now combined. We have a folder for the newsletters and other dept briefs. They are also available on the help centre via comms.
There is still team 5 but managers are no longer assessed on if this is delivered or not. It does not come out weekly and is also displayed online. You can see the company message online but you won't get the store or dept message online.
In regards to think 25 and face coverings. If worn for religious reasons, in a lot of cases it is also against the religion to drink alcohol. There would still be restriction on things like knives for example and is still required. The government brief is that enforced removal of face coverings should only be for security reasons at border control for example. In other places is is treated same as someone who does not have ID with them. It is simply a matter of proving age, if customer is not clearly of age they need to produce ID that needs to be checked. If they can't do this the sale should be politely refused.

NightAndDay

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #29 on: 01-07-20, 12:54PM »
And for the record...motorcycle crash helmets should be removed immediately prior to entering any store or PFS internal shop area. Acces to store is denied to anyone refusing to remove their crash helmet!

@alf
" if face masks were mandatory, it would be a different matter"
That was my query regarding religious face coverings. Are all age restricted items refused to these female customers?? Twould seem from the think 25 update, that this be the case ???

By mandatory I mean legally required, I believe face masks were required for some public transport for example. Though on a related note I do wish face masks were required for access to shops, but that’s a different topic.

Other face masks religious or not, are not legally mandatory, they are simply by choice and the age restricted sales policy still applies. If you cannot assess the age The sale does not continue.

Now I get the controversial nature, but as far as I know there’s no set policy for dealing with burqas or similar as I figure they are fortunately rare occurrences. And to be blunt I would rather Tesco didn’t pander to such a backwards practice.

It depends on the religious clothing headpiece and religion, it's religious discrimination to refuse service because the customer refuses to remove a religious article of clothing, (exception being full burqas and niqabs and only for ID purposes or other scenarios where it's law to identify a person by their age) however most of these religions prohibit the followers from consuming things such as alcohol, so the scenario where they would buy alcohol happens very rarely, less so with other age restricted products.

Most places adopt the same rules as used by the DVLA/DSA and the passport agency, so it's unacceptable to ask someone to remove their turban or other religious head piece as long as it doesn't  cover the outline of the eyes, nose or mouth.

alf

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #30 on: 01-07-20, 01:58PM »
And for the record...motorcycle crash helmets should be removed immediately prior to entering any store or PFS internal shop area. Acces to store is denied to anyone refusing to remove their crash helmet!

@alf
" if face masks were mandatory, it would be a different matter"
That was my query regarding religious face coverings. Are all age restricted items refused to these female customers?? Twould seem from the think 25 update, that this be the case ???

By mandatory I mean legally required, I believe face masks were required for some public transport for example. Though on a related note I do wish face masks were required for access to shops, but that’s a different topic.

Other face masks religious or not, are not legally mandatory, they are simply by choice and the age restricted sales policy still applies. If you cannot assess the age The sale does not continue.

Now I get the controversial nature, but as far as I know there’s no set policy for dealing with burqas or similar as I figure they are fortunately rare occurrences. And to be blunt I would rather Tesco didn’t pander to such a backwards practice.

It depends on the religious clothing headpiece and religion, it's religious discrimination to refuse service because the customer refuses to remove a religious article of clothing, (exception being full burqas and niqabs and only for ID purposes or other scenarios where it's law to identify a person by their age) however most of these religions prohibit the followers from consuming things such as alcohol, so the scenario where they would buy alcohol happens very rarely, less so with other age restricted products.

Topic of thread “think 25 and face masks”

Read the thread dude, any mention of religion has been in the context of face masks/face coverings in regards to age restricted sales.




tempworker2020

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #31 on: 05-07-20, 04:18AM »
Challange 25 has always been a difficult one setting aside the religious side of things which has been already discussed. My approach has always been 'Can you remove the mask for a second while I check your ID'.  Normally there is no opposition but this can be challenged if that happens I would call team support and leave it up to them. 

gomezz

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #32 on: 05-07-20, 11:17AM »
Surely the mask may be removed for a few seconds while both customer and cashier hold their breath which has the same effect of stopping aerosol spray of breath?
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OH

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #33 on: 05-07-20, 07:37PM »
If / when wearing face masks in shops becomes mandatory
https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/supermarkets/face-masks-to-be-mandatory-in-shops-in-scotland-from-next-week/646029.article

Customers will be prevented by law from removing masks.

Think 25 is going to stop an enormous amount of alcohol sales!

notsofunny

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #34 on: 05-07-20, 08:01PM »

Well if this does stop sales in stores , Everyone will be able to go to pubs since no face covering rules seem to apply in them  ???


OH

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #35 on: 05-07-20, 08:10PM »
Drinking through a mask spoils the taste a bit! ;D

Fun girl

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #36 on: 29-08-20, 12:56AM »
Hi I work on self-service, failed a test purchase the guy was 20 but it went to disciplinary and I was given a final warning.  We're told not to go to till and we have to clear age restrictions on a monitor, and that's what I did.  a have to stop assess ask check from a monitor and when you think 25 from a distance and get it wrong this what happens.  Worked with them for 24 years first time with any warning or even a lets talk and it goes to final warning, don't know if a should appeal.
« Last Edit: 29-08-20, 02:21PM by Nomad »

oldfashionedplayer

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #37 on: 29-08-20, 02:21AM »
you should appeal as a final shouldn't be given for that.. unless theres other occasions in a recent time that you've been in for...  ???

if your not sure at a distance ask to lower mask etc, always be sure with it...

lucgeo

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #38 on: 29-08-20, 07:37AM »
Oh here we go again...a final warning for a NON underage restricted sale  :-X

From a recent update on policy....‘If a customer wearing a face covering is buying an age restricted product, we shouldn’t ask them to remove their coverings for Think 25 identification purposes.

So you have been told to use the monitor for restricted sale verification...the guy is wearing a mask...you PERCEIVED him to be of legal age...he was of legal age...what's the problem  ???

What's the alternative? Shout to the guy from a distance to remove his mask, embarrassing him in front of all the other customers, and then what ? Does he have to slide his ID across the 2m distancing to verify his age, and then you slide it back ??? Or are you expected to get up close to inspect it, with his mask off  ???

APPEAL....APPEAL....APPEAL   >:(

Hmmm...24 years service with a squeaky clean slate ???  Methinks the long service cleansing is doing the rounds again :-X
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NightAndDay

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #39 on: 29-08-20, 10:37AM »
Hi I work on self-service, failed a test purchase the guy was 20 but it went to disciplinary and I was given a final warning.  We're told not to go to till and we have to clear age restrictions on a monitor, and that's what I did.  a have to stop assess ask check from a monitor and when you think 25 from a distance and get it wrong this what happens.  Worked with them for 24 years first time with any warning or even a lets talk and it goes to final warning, don't know if a should appeal.

Appeal and get ACAS involved, they specialise in employer-employee reconcilliation and will help you go to an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal if they get involved. 25 years service will factor heavily in an unfair dismissal claim, 6 figure payouts wouldn't be surprising.
« Last Edit: 29-08-20, 02:21PM by Nomad »

Bigbadbob

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #40 on: 30-08-20, 11:11AM »
What can the outcome of a disciplinary meeting be for failing a "Think 25 policy" My sister failed one last Wednesday 26th August to a mystery shopper by selling one tin of cider. The mystery shopper was masked, but was asked for ID. As she had no ID my sister asked for age and D.O.B.  My sister has 17 years service and is now worried over this slip up. Investigation was held on Friday. Now it is a disciplinary on Thursday. Any idea's from anyone ??  Thanks

dotnochance

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #41 on: 30-08-20, 11:55AM »
The mystery shopper was masked, but was asked for ID. As she had no ID my sister asked for age and D.O.B.
Yeah no offence but your sisters not looking good right now, Tesco treats alcohol ID extremely serious especially from a mystery shopper, I would advise her to get a rep, in my store failing mystery shopper alcohol ID has always been a finale written warning, might be different in her store though

amex

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #42 on: 30-08-20, 12:09PM »
That’s what they do now, when you ask for ID, they say they have none. That’s what happened to me last time we were tested, I refused and kept the alcohol.  So we passed.  But this month my team leader failed because the guy had a mask on and he misjudged his age and didn’t ask for ID. 

lucgeo

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #43 on: 30-08-20, 12:19PM »
I'm really having a problem with this final warning stance  ???

If the mystery customer is of legal age to purchase an age restricted product, then regardless of whether ID was produced, no law has been broken. The colleague has perceived the customer to be of legal age, so felt no need to ask for ID. For management to give any disciplinary based on ones perception of a person's age is nonsensical.

With regard to asking for ID, but non produced, it suggests it was perceived the customer was underage, to then let the sale proceed based only on a verbal D.O.B. clarification was bad judgement. Hopefully the customer was of legal age, if not, a final warning would be the best to be hoped for.
« Last Edit: 30-08-20, 12:21PM by lucgeo »
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Bigbadbob

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #44 on: 30-08-20, 01:17PM »
ID was not asked for by the assistant, but age and DOB was asked for. The assistant thought the customer (mystery shopper) as well over the age of 18, even with a face mask on.

NightAndDay

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #45 on: 30-08-20, 02:28PM »
I'm really having a problem with this final warning stance  ???

If the mystery customer is of legal age to purchase an age restricted product, then regardless of whether ID was produced, no law has been broken. The colleague has perceived the customer to be of legal age, so felt no need to ask for ID. For management to give any disciplinary based on ones perception of a person's age is nonsensical.

With regard to asking for ID, but non produced, it suggests it was perceived the customer was underage, to then let the sale proceed based only on a verbal D.O.B. clarification was bad judgement. Hopefully the customer was of legal age, if not, a final warning would be the best to be hoped for.

To add, the think 25 policy wasn't adapted when the new legislation to wear face masks in-store was introduced, an employee can't reasonably assess a persons age when a face covering takes up 40-50% of a customers face. If they did get fired for it, a judge would also deem it unreasonable in an unfair dismissal lawsuit, ACAS has a duty to be impartial and resolve employer-employee disputes, if the appeal does fail, talk to ACAS about raising a grievance with what has transpired, Tescos managers should know better than to haphazardly dish out final written warnings, ACAS would "gently" remind them of this.
« Last Edit: 30-08-20, 02:30PM by NightAndDay »

Morris999

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #46 on: 30-08-20, 06:29PM »
The mystery shoppers they send in for test purchases while over 18 years old will look young, and will definitely not look over 25!
They are testing to see if the colleague asks for ID and then refuses the sale when they do not present any.
It is easy to spot a potential test purchase sale, they will always try and buy a single bottle/can or other age restricted item Costing a few £’s normally with a few other cheap items, and in my experience are always on their own.

Remember the Policy is Think 25 not is the customer over 18.
A clear distinction that gets lost in the failed test purchases.

As for the policy around ID and face coverings this has been covered on here afew times over the past few months and the current policy is

That the colleague can ask the customer to remove their face coverings so they can asses the customers age, if the customer refuses then the colleague is to politely refuse the sale.

The above has always been the policy for face coverings and Think 25 of any type.
It was only temporary suspended with government advice for a few months but was reinstated end of June/ Beginning of July.

There is absolutely no reason not to ask the customer to temporarily remove their face coverings whether on self-service or any other checkout.
Just because the colleague can now authorise at the self-serve terminal doesn’t mean they cannot follow the Think 25 process.
We could argue all day about whether it justifies a final warning or not, but all I’ll say is this, you best be on the look out for the next test purchase as they will be back in numerous times very soon now the store has failed one!

As for the colleague that asked for ID and then preceded with the sale anyway when the customer didn’t have any, you’ll be best just to accept whatever warning they give you and learn from the experience and never do it again.
If that was the Police or Trading Standards you’ll be looking at a criminal record and out of a job.

NightAndDay

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #47 on: 30-08-20, 07:10PM »
As the legislation on face coverings was only recently implemented, I very much doubt Tesco has updated their training on the think 25 policy with this addendum, the think 25 policy would be mandatory legal elearning training that the Store Manager would have to get everyone to do, if the OP didn't do the training with the updates on the face mask legislation, they can't be disciplined as they haven't received training on it.

barafear

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #48 on: 30-08-20, 07:18PM »
OK. I know 25 minus 18 equals 7......but does that mean its that easy to tell the difference. If you fail to ask for ID that is because you have assessed they look over 25. If they turn out to " look under 25" in someone else's opinion ( either the tester or Tesco management) who is to say who is right. I served someone buying a £39 bottle of gin. I looked at her and thought she could be in her early 20s but buying such expensive alcohol  made me assume older.....as I handed her the gin I noticed she had her driving licence ready to show me....so I checked....,she was 21. As someone else said, not illegal but not following Tesco policies  ( if I hadn't checked). But still a matter of opinion.

Nomad

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Re: Think 25 and facemasks
« Reply #49 on: 30-08-20, 08:37PM »

If that was the Police or Trading Standards you’ll be looking at a criminal record and out of a job.
If they were 18 or over the Police or Trading Standards would not be interested in the slightest.
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