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Author Topic: Holiday argument with manager  (Read 7358 times)

taliahad

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Holiday argument with manager
« on: 20-03-20, 12:51PM »
Hello.  Four weeks ago today, I pinned up a holiday request form on our staff notice board for my manager to look at upon her return from her holidays, which would have been three days later.  Just over a week later, I had a week off and upon my return I reminded her about the form.  She replied, rather crossly, that she had not had time to look at it.  Fast forward to today when I reminded her again about the form, she said that one of the two days I want was fine but the other was not and I shouldn't have booked anything without her say so.  She also claims to have told me this before when I reminded her about it, I am pretty certain that she did not and said this to her.  I have said to her that it would be really helpful to have a calendar that we could all mark our holidays down on because we can't all play at guessing which days are free, especially when she does not get back to us.  I've told her that because it's taken her so long to get back to me, I'm entitled to it and she is getting cross with me.  Any ideas on how to handle this please?  I work hard there, do a lot, put up with a lot, never go sick, am never late,  just like most of you guys do, I don't want a battle on my hands all the time.   

lucgeo

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #1 on: 20-03-20, 01:08PM »
You're stuffed! Unless you have a witness to your conversation when she said she hadn't had a chance to look at it!  you actually need to hand the form to your manager, and if they then don't get back to you within seven days you can assume the holiday is yours. Other option to book it at the holiday planning meeting and get request signed and dated. So therefore you've no recourse unfortunately.
Mind you, you could always bluff it out, as you should have holiday booking meetings, whereby she holds the diary, so you can see what dates are available?
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taliahad

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #2 on: 20-03-20, 01:16PM »
Thanks for the reply.  She's not denying receiving the form, she admits that she's got it and that she hasn't given it back.  Both myself and the manager are part time, so our paths don't cross very often, this notice board is what we all use when we need to fill in a holiday or any other form and she pins them back there afterwards.  I can't remember the last time that I had a holiday review.  I don't want to be awkward, I'll co operate whenever I can but I really don't think this is fair. 

lucgeo

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #3 on: 20-03-20, 01:26PM »
What is the time scale from her saying she had it...to getting back yo you? More than seven days?
Hmm...for many reasons this accepted practice of communication for everything, via the notice board, is far from acceptable.  Forms being  filled in for differing things, are any including addresses or other personal data e.g. Employee number, contracts to sign etc..

I personally would never put my holiday request on full view. What's not to say another dept colleague sees it, and also intends to request the same week?? They'll get in there first with their own request pretty sharpish.
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taliahad

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #4 on: 20-03-20, 01:30PM »
Yes, it's more than seven days since we had that conversation, it was last Wednesday, so it's been nine days.  Regarding the forms, anything personal is usually put in a sealed envelope, I can't recall ever seeing a contract on view.  I work in the PFS, if that makes a difference.  She picked up that form 25 days ago and has not done a thing about it.  This is the same manager who forgot to give me and two others our Christmas vouchers and it was only when I remembered them and made a fuss that they were given out.  This is the manager who when asked previously about holidays by another colleague, spoke to the colleague and then said "now you can get off my case."

 
« Last Edit: 20-03-20, 01:37PM by taliahad »

lucgeo

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #5 on: 20-03-20, 01:34PM »
No dept is different, if personal information is on view that shouldn't be, then it's against data protection and Tesco policies. Sealed envelopes are no guarantee, anything data sensitive should be handed to you personally.

You could try the seven day rule, and no holiday planning meeting, but how far do you want to push it?
« Last Edit: 20-03-20, 01:36PM by lucgeo »
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taliahad

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #6 on: 20-03-20, 01:39PM »
I'm quite prepared to push it, I don't like trouble but she should manage.  If she can't be bothered, then don't be a manager. 

lucgeo

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #7 on: 20-03-20, 02:16PM »
Then I'd go for it! If she tries the must hand to manager route, you can highlight the accepted practice of placing on notice board, which has been instigated and utilised by herself and the rest of the team for a number of years.  Good luck  :thumbup:
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taliahad

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #8 on: 21-03-20, 06:25AM »
Thank you, She's not going to mess up my plans, although this virus probably will.  She has a duty to get back to me in a timely manor, which she hasn't done, time off is very important to all of us.  In any case, what's the worst that can happen?  Nothing I do or don't do affects my chances of a pay rise, bonus or promotion and I'm not interested in childish service superstar awards. Thanks for your thoughts lucgeo.

Redshoes

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #9 on: 22-03-20, 05:51AM »
Holiday booking window opened on 1st April, does so every year. 75% of your hols should be before end of October. I have known of people kick off because they have been refused birthday off in March but they have waited until after Christmas to book it. Some people fight the system, I get that it can be hard to plan ahead but with so many people in the company if we don't plan we stand the chance of being refused as other have booked before us.
On the back of that, there is a section on the holiday form for the manager to put the date they received the form. They then have to put the date colleague informed. They have to sign against both dates too. If it's a blatant lie that has been signed for this is totally not acceptable.
There is a process to follow, on both sides. If it's holidays you desperately need it's a bit late in the booking period to be requesting but without this crisis we are in we should be doing annual holiday meetings to mop up outstanding holidays. We are not in normal times, your manager is wrong in the way they have done this but I can also see that during such a busy crisis period they may not see it as priority. It is still a priority task as holidays do need to be managed, they still need to be taken, they still need to be booked. We can't come to the end of this with huge numbers of people owed full annual holidays in a very short space of time.

taliahad

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #10 on: 22-03-20, 06:46AM »
These two days off are for October, so we have seven months to go.  One is okay, the other she's saying no to, it seems harsh and unnecessary.  Anything could happen between now and then, people leave all the time in our place.  The manager has not even return the form to me yet, I just reminded her about it Friday and she told me verbally no.  I don't mind doing a shift swap if I can, I've done it before but I dislike her whole attitude.

lucgeo

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #11 on: 22-03-20, 08:58AM »
You can book your holiday anytime for the following year, you don't need to wait for the window to open. Indeed, a lot of mangers welcome early bookings, it helps all round!

Think the concern here is that the manager runs the dept by notes or word of mouth, rather than following correct procedure, and then gets narky if pulled up for it!
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Scruff

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #12 on: 22-03-20, 05:21PM »
Does a manager telling me rather than not giving forms back count?? because I gave my form in on Monday and I was told I couldn't have certain dates but was not given a form back and now I'm on holiday so by time I get back it would have been longer than 7 days.
« Last Edit: 22-03-20, 07:24PM by Nomad »

oldfashionedplayer

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #13 on: 28-03-20, 02:48AM »
Your supposed to get your form back, verbal isn't enough proof, could be just denied later, process is that you give the form in and then 7 days to get back to you, ideally wait 8/9 if they ain't told you then ask for the form back and always make sure you've taken a photo and ideally had someone witness you giving it in.

They've had a chance to get back to you before your holidays and should know you would  be on holiday so if they challenge it just say you had given them enough notice, your highly likely to get it in your favour, just inform them after your holiday (ideally a day or 2 later) that you want the form back and any that were refused just inform them due to out of process they need to amend it, if they have a problem and try anything then just mention the holiday policy act (updated Feb 2020) should they want to challenge you on it.

Scruff

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #14 on: 30-03-20, 12:40PM »
where can i see the holiday policy?



Scruff

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #15 on: 30-03-20, 12:55PM »
found it

"Stores
Fill in the annual holiday request form, found on Our Tesco, and give this to your manager. Your manager will have seven days to let you know whether your holiday request has been authorised or not.
If your holiday request cannot be authorised, your manager will explain why this is and whether there are any alternative options such as shift swaps, using personal day or bank holiday entitlement or unpaid leave.
If you have not had a response in seven days, you can assume your request has been authorised."

Unfortunately does not mention actually giving the form back, just "your manager will have seven days to let you know" so i guess verbal would count?

Welshie

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #16 on: 30-03-20, 12:58PM »
" give this to your manager " , so you're also out of policy !!!

Scruff

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #17 on: 30-03-20, 01:12PM »
" give this to your manager " , so you're also out of policy !!!

well i never gave it to the trolley guy :D

i gave it to MY manager

Welshie

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #18 on: 30-03-20, 01:55PM »
No you pinned it to a board ,  I'm just saying that it would be 7 days from your manager got the form , so if you dont hand it to your manager you dont have an exact time of when they got the form . If it's a good manager that you trust it shouldn't be an issue but there are obviously trust issues with this manager .

Scruff

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #19 on: 30-03-20, 02:09PM »
That was the original post not me 😂

taliahad

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #20 on: 30-03-20, 03:48PM »
Thanks for the replies. This situation is still rumbling on.  I still have not received the form back.  The manager should have picked it up the day after I pinned it to the board, as that was her next shift in.  It was a couple of weeks after that, that I asked her about it and received a brusque reply that she was busy and hadn't had time to deal with it.  Then the I mentioned it again, the same day that I started this thread and was told that one of the two days was okay but the other one wasn't and I still don't know which one is which.  I've now left the manager a message asking for the form back and I've also asked for a calendar so that we can all see which dates are free and which are taken.  I don't think this is right at all and if I get more grief over it, I'll ask to see the manager and/or HR.  I usually only see the manager once a week, so it can make planning holidays hard and she never wants to discuss these things, the response from her is abrupt and rude.   

Bubbles1234

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #21 on: 30-03-20, 04:11PM »
Hi my store manager was on holiday i worked 7 days  he questioned me saying i had 27hrs overtime that week which is  2 days 15.00 plus sunday is put as overtine another 7 hours plus each day i was not leaving on time due to supporting the staff and store has was the worst week people panic buying  which over the week was 6hrs  its hrs that i have worked i never clocked in or out but cctv can see that im so angry so i have sent form to payroll to remove the hours im not that desperate

Welshie

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #22 on: 30-03-20, 04:20PM »
That was the original post not me 😂

Sorry , my bad x

taliahad

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #23 on: 01-04-20, 04:07PM »
So I got the form back today.  The manager has written on it a date of 25/2/20, next to the manager request received line.  I took it to the store manager who I don't trust much and he suggests that the three of us have a meeting to discuss it.  This was supposed to have happened this afternoon but didn't.  He talked about a compromise of shift swap etc, which would be okay but the manager has broken the rules, as far as I can tell.  The SM did however agree that this took a very long time to get back to me.  I really could do without this hassle.  This is one day, in six months time and I only work a six hour shift on that day.  It's the manager's attitude, I struggle with, I recall I almost missed out on my Christmas vouchers because she didn't give them to me and I forgot about them till a few weeks later. If anyone has any thoughts about what I should say in the meeting, I'd be most grateful to hear them.  Thank you

lucgeo

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Re: Holiday argument with manager
« Reply #24 on: 01-04-20, 04:33PM »
So if the manager has the date received as written 25/2/20, and failed to respond within the seven days, the request is granted. Them's the rules.
The fact the date is not for another six months, gives the manager plenty of notice to get that shift covered, by way of overtime.
A shift swap is a fair request, but...the onus should be on the manager to arrange this, not you, and then only if you are willing to the compromise and the shift swap is an acceptable alternative day and time to you.
The ball is well and truly in your court.
« Last Edit: 08-04-20, 11:35AM by Nomad »
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