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Author Topic: Holiday booking  (Read 10938 times)

dfl

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Holiday booking
« on: 30-01-20, 09:55PM »
Scenario,

Holidays requested on holiday form, 2 days, 1 in Feb, 1 in march, both approved via returned holiday slip on day after submitted, then 14 days later another copy of my form returned to me saying they couldn't be booked on the system as 2 many holidays used already.

Employee however has already booked and paid for an activity for those prior "approved" days. Anyone able to comment on how this goes.
DFL

londoner83

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #1 on: 30-01-20, 10:00PM »
Shouldn't the employee have first checked they had sufficient holidays left to take before requesting time off. The manager who signed and returned the form has no issue with you having both days off, however you can not take it as paid holiday. If you arent prepared to take it off unpaid could you potentially take it as TL and make up your hours.

his scots tie

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #2 on: 30-01-20, 10:05PM »
Should be given option of taking time off unpaid if no holidays left

dfl

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #3 on: 30-01-20, 10:28PM »
Londoner83, is it not easier for the managers to check that as they have access to the live system whereas the employee may only have their last payslip, which would be at least a month behind
DFL

madness

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #4 on: 30-01-20, 10:38PM »
Looks like they did check it and got back to you saying too many booked.

Unpaid can be an option. or shift swap.

dfl

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #5 on: 30-01-20, 10:48PM »
Madness, yes checked it but 15 whole days after they received the form and 14 days after they had actually approved them by signing the return slip, employee has since booked and paid for other things on those days now on the strength of the return slip
DFL

Katarn2000

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #6 on: 30-01-20, 11:17PM »
Manager can't summon up more holiday entitlement at will. Doesn't matter if it was approved or not, the system will not allow it.
I'd suggest organising shift swaps.
If anyone is imagining that they can kick up a fuss and get the time off paid because the manager handed the form back they can forget it.

Nowanexmgr

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #7 on: 30-01-20, 11:20PM »
Tough.

If poster cannot keep a tally of how many days holiday they have taken then quite simply they only have themselves to blame.

Unpaid leave if you're lucky. Personally if I was your manager I would just refuse the time off in order to teach you a lesson.

Redshoes

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #8 on: 31-01-20, 02:56AM »
You should have had all your holidays booked by now. Your Christmas working arrangements was the time to sew up those odd days. Was it simply the fact that you thought you had two days left and it was the bh used for Christmas? Holiday booking window starts on 1st April for the 2021/2022 holiday year.
Wages clerks tend to print off the holiday forms and inform the manager of any outstanding holidays. Your manager was wrong not to know or check if you had days left. However, you have an entitlement and that is it. It is also up to you to make sure you go on holiday when you have booked and to be aware of how many days you have left to book. If you are not sure you need to ask.
We could all book extra days and claim not my fault. Would be an easy way to get extra holidays every year if it was that simple and easy.

lucgeo

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #9 on: 31-01-20, 08:04AM »
Think it's six of one, and half a dozen of the other here...the employee, probably barely trained properly in their own department, only has a wage slip for guidance, and like so many find, the wage slips are extremely difficult to comprehend at the best of times, and all to frequently, WRONG!! So if they have read last month's wage slip which showed days left to take...then they could be forgiven for thinking they had days left to take.

The manager has failed to check, as you would have expected them to, being that all entitlement should have been booked and approved at the beginning of the year. If the employee believes they have days left to book, ask the wages clerk to cross reference holiday ent/BH ent on the system, as often the holidays already taken can be coded wrongly as holiday booked as BH and vice versa.

I would expect, on this occasion time off unpaid, or work the hours beforehand to take as T/L. I think they've stopped the working the time back at a later date??

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lucgeo

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #10 on: 31-01-20, 08:15AM »
@nowanexmanager

If the manager is so thick as to authorise a holiday request from one of their team, without checking their dept holiday diary as to who's booked time off, when, and taken their full entitlement, then quite simply they only have themselves to blame.

Personally, if it was my manager, I would just grievance it, in order to teach them a lesson!
Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

gomezz

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #11 on: 31-01-20, 12:25PM »
Surely the holiday system should be checking if trying to book holiday over and above the allowance and flag it up so the manager can then enter it as unpaid (after checking with the colleague that is what they want to do)?
"The progress of the kart is more important than its direction"

madness

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #12 on: 31-01-20, 12:33PM »
DFL are you a rep or are these "friends" actually you?

80377494

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #13 on: 31-01-20, 02:53PM »
The holidays and bank holidays taken on payslips runs the same as overtime so are a week behind every payday. It doesn't show how many holidays are booked which is where a lot of confusion comes from.

gomezz - the HRAM system will not let holidays, bank holidays and personal days be booked if the colleague doesn't have any/enough entitlement remaining.  It flashes up with a warning that the time will be unpaid if booked.
« Last Edit: 31-01-20, 02:54PM by 80377494 »

dfl

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #14 on: 31-01-20, 03:19PM »
In this case the holidays "booked" are mine, but I'm not a rep.
DFL

dfl

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #15 on: 31-01-20, 03:21PM »
And for clarity, I indeed booked these in good faith believing I had holidays left, problem I have now is the fact I've arranged to be elsewhere other than work on the dates and indeed paid money to do so
DFL

forrestgimp

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #16 on: 31-01-20, 03:55PM »
Its your own responsibility to make sure you ask for the right amount, Your manager obviously said yes after looking at the rota gave you your sheet back and when they were being put on the system it spat it back saying too many booked.

So not their fault and you have 3 options, unpaid leave which should not be a problem to the company as the holidays were accepted anyway....Or move days from other holidays to accomodate the new one or Cancel your plans.

dfl

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #17 on: 31-01-20, 05:03PM »
@forrestgimp, I once had a rep say to me tho if Tesco tell you anything is done a certain way and you disagree you could say show me the policy, I've never seen any that says anything other than what's on the form, is the bit where the manager signs to say they are approved and the note about making sure they are approved before making external arrangements, so have I not fulfilled this ?
DFL

lackofinterest

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #18 on: 31-01-20, 07:05PM »
@lucgeo  :thumbup: >:D :D
« Last Edit: 31-01-20, 07:07PM by lackofinterest »

lucgeo

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #19 on: 31-01-20, 08:31PM »
@forrestgimp

Whereas it may be a part responsibility to request the correct amount of leave, the manager should not have authorised the request based purely on the dept rota. The whole point of handing in a holiday request form, is to gain authorisation for the requested dates from the dept manager. That manager should immediately check the holiday diary, and their part copies of all requests submitted and authorised, either at the holiday planning meeting, or a later date. Hence the reason they are given the 7 day timescale to enable an input on the system and a written reply to the request, also the reason a holiday is automatically authorised if they fail to reply in the set timescale, which would seem tesco deem as an acceptable timeframe for a manager to perform their role using the tools provided.

To put the onus on the employee, in that they have sole responsibility to book the correct amount of leave, kind of makes the holiday booking meetings, written requests, to their manager following the correct procedures somewhat pointless.

In my opinion, the buck stops with the manager, who should be apologising for being too lazy and incompetent to take the time needed to basically look in a book, and input on the system. All of ten minutes...tops!
« Last Edit: 31-01-20, 08:36PM by lucgeo »
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Katarn2000

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #20 on: 01-02-20, 07:18AM »
Is this now a case of keep asking the question over and over until you get the answer you want?

Redshoes

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #21 on: 01-02-20, 07:36AM »
Some colleagues manage holidays better then others. One hands in holiday form on 1st April and has all in service days for school organised. Another books, re-books time and time again. Another leaves things as long as possible. This time of year it tends to be people who have left as long as possible or have been off sick. If you have been sick it will cancel out a holiday. If you turn into work when due to be on holiday (it happens) it will cancel out a holiday. You could also have reached the length of service that grants you extra days or taken on extra contracted shifts that grants extra days. This all needs to be managed. Things happen that muddy the water. If it's a simple matter of holidays booked last Jan that colleague had forgotten about its more down to the colleague but manager needs to manage situation too. If the water is muddy it's both. This manager will probably now take that bit longer at getting back to colleagues requesting holiday. They will do the check on wages system that does not need a wages clerk to do, managers can do.
It's all going on an app very shortly. My shift will tell you your shifts but also tell you when on holiday. I'm sure some people in my store deliberately come in earn on holiday and try to manipulate system. They do this rather than book then re-book. It's costs whole store overtime so I expect this is why holidays will show on the app. Overtime is put in place to cover holiday, colleague comes into work so holiday pay has been put aside for them then not used, someone has overtime to cover for them and they are paid to come to work. Dept over spends on overtime. It does not happen often but it does happen. Will be interesting to see if app gives details on how many holidays are booked.

forrestgimp

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #22 on: 01-02-20, 08:37AM »
@forrestgimp, I once had a rep say to me tho if Tesco tell you anything is done a certain way and you disagree you could say show me the policy, I've never seen any that says anything other than what's on the form, is the bit where the manager signs to say they are approved and the note about making sure they are approved before making external arrangements, so have I not fulfilled this ?
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Yea and to a degree thats true, however in this case you made the mistake by asking for holidays you were not entitled to, The onus is not on your line manager to determine whether or not you have had too many or booked too many before they say yes to the request, all they are supposed to do is make sure the holidays are available on your department and give you a yes/no answer based on that then the form goes to wages and gets inputted and thats the point that it gets spat back out.

Imagine a front end manager with 60 people to deal with it would be unresonable to expect them to know how many holidays each person was entitled to how many they had taken and how many they had left to book, no thats your job.

As for the aproval before making external arrangements yes you are correct I suspect the delay in inputting the holidays onto the system is where the problem comes from, like I said you have a few options and you will get to take your holiday you will just have to adjust how you do that.

You can not expect to get extra holidays simply because your manager was not aware you had tried to book more than you were entitled to, I mean if that was the case every time we got a new options candidate I would be booking 4 weeks off and getting 8 months a year off.
« Last Edit: 01-02-20, 08:39AM by forrestgimp »

Mark calloway

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #23 on: 01-02-20, 10:38AM »
I've got several hols left over from last year's allowance,how do I get them? Will they be TL? This has happened for a few years now as managers golden boys get first dabs at the holiday book.

Poolboy77

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Re: Holiday booking
« Reply #24 on: 01-02-20, 10:48AM »
Sorry, but the onus is on the colleague to ensure they booked the correct holiday. The manager would just authorise it from the holiday diary just saying yes or no based upon how many people are off. Under new guidelines most managers do not now have access to the HRAM system so they would wait for the colleague in wages to code the holiday on the system, that colleague may have been off for a couple of weeks or they could have been late coding on the system, sorry to be be obvious here but the colleague know what their entitlement is and it’s down to them to ensure they don’t over book the holiday otherwise everyone in the company would do the same thing. Need to just be sensible here it’s down to the colleague end of !!!! Too easy to try and blame the manager these days colleagues have their own responsibility too