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Author Topic: High flats lifts broken - safety  (Read 7003 times)

dfl

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High flats lifts broken - safety
« on: 15-10-19, 06:07PM »
Hi, I heard a driver was told in no uncertain terms to deliver to floors in double figures (2 of them one after another) when the lifts weren't working (high rise flats the type with 14 floors).

I would have thought this would carry an unacceptable risk to the driver of over straining and risk of injury.

Comments/debate welcome !
DFL

choppers dad

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #1 on: 15-10-19, 07:46PM »
I am a driver,  I had a 6th floor with no lift. Told the customers I was not prepared to carry the shopping up. Simple as that. I don't really go over two floors, only for old people.

dfl

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #2 on: 15-10-19, 08:58PM »
I am a driver,  I had a 6th floor with no lift. Told the customers I was not prepared to carry the shopping up. Simple as that. I don't really go over two floors, only for old people.

This driver had 2 back to back on high floors, refusal was met with manager demanding the driver return to the customer with the stuff. I'd have said no for a fact unless given help, falling on the stairs on the flats as I've been in them driver could be left hurt on them for ages.
DFL

dfl

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #3 on: 15-10-19, 09:46PM »
And what does your manager say if you refuse deliveries higher than that level ?
DFL

optout

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #4 on: 15-10-19, 11:25PM »
Were there witnesses to the order?

How was the order (from manager communicated)?

Did the colleague injure themselves (remembering that some injuries take a while to become apparent)?

What is the company policy?

Have there been risk-assessments done?
I AM NOT A REP, BUT......

dfl

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #5 on: 16-10-19, 08:02AM »
"Witnesses to the order" why would any be needed, the orders would be in black and white on the dotcom delivery schedule, and I'm quite sure lifts not working could easily be corroborated. But that's not the question, the question is, would it be safe, my opinion is no, what's other peoples views is the question.
DFL

Welshie

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #6 on: 16-10-19, 12:15PM »
dfl, I think opt out means witnesses to the manager ordering the driver to deliver to double figure floors without a lift .
Surely the sensible thing to do would be to ask customer if they know when/if lift will be fixed that day and arrange for the delivery later ?

dfl

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #7 on: 16-10-19, 12:31PM »
Yeah maybe, if that the case then I would have just come back with it and awaited manager telling me to do it in front of people, and if the manager did it in private then I'd just refuse, it would all become official when it went to disciplinary (at that point it would be obvious manager told you to do it)
DFL

johnven

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #8 on: 16-10-19, 06:49PM »
I'm a dotcom driver and the rules are that your 1st priority is to the health and safety of yourself and others before any consideration to customer service, company equipment, customer or public property. When you arrive at any delivery you have to assess if you can deliver the shopping safely and if there is any risk to you, others or tesco. It states in our terms and conditions that the driver will make the assessment. So the manager back at the store cannot know all the facts. I have refused 1 flight if blocked with c**p and gone up 2 or 3 that are clear. I won't do outside ones in the dark or if wet and slippery. So no manager can tell you to do it, they may make suggestions to make it easier or safer.

Best bet, refuse and go to the disciplinary meeting with a copy of terms and conditions. Also remind him it's a dynamic assessment that only you can do at the time you arrive.

choppers dad

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #9 on: 16-10-19, 06:56PM »
The terms and conditions state we can deliver to the main door of the building, the customers accept that so that's our cover.

dfl

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #10 on: 16-10-19, 09:05PM »
I havent seen that on the terms and conditions,

And im aware that these deliveries were on flights up in the double figures as in more than 10 floors
DFL

johnven

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #11 on: 16-10-19, 11:35PM »

dfl

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #12 on: 17-10-19, 04:05PM »
Where is that, is it online when an order is made, ie have to be logged into an account ?

Thanks
DFL

johnven

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #13 on: 17-10-19, 08:54PM »
It's in the faq section on the app. I'm logged in. It's not very clear, suspect that is deliberate. Sure they don't want every driver knowing, lol.

BMW-E90

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #14 on: 04-12-19, 02:38PM »
It's still pretty grey in my opinion.. They need to clarify whether we deliver up non lift stairs or not and send this information out to every customer! Anything above the 1st floor with no lift should be at the main entrance.

Where is the union on this?


Cleaner1

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #15 on: 04-12-19, 04:41PM »
Conduct your own risk assessment if it is unsafe to deliver don't do it. Who gives a fk what Tesco say. They will be the first ones to try and blame you if anything happens.

lackofinterest

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #16 on: 04-12-19, 04:42PM »
@bmw. union!! ;D ;D ;D ;D. they stopped giving a s*** about staff years ago mate! :-X
« Last Edit: 04-12-19, 04:43PM by lackofinterest »

Cleaner1

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lackofinterest

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #18 on: 04-12-19, 04:57PM »
love this song. shame it doesnt apply with tossdaw >:(

hesketh

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #19 on: 04-12-19, 05:37PM »
As an elected Usdaw H&S rep, admittedly in Distribution where we do get listened to, I can categorically state that this is unacceptable and the driver should grievance any such management response immediately.

When prescribed procedures are not applicable then, as the man on site, the only risk assessment relevant is yours and it cannot be overridden by someone sat in an office miles away.

If "the book" says front door or limits the number of flights acceptable to climb then that stands regardless of whether there should be a useable lift or not. If the lift is working then fine, if it isn't then it is not your problem.......simples!
Don't take life too seriously, no one has ever gotten out alive!

BMW-E90

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #20 on: 05-12-19, 01:36PM »
As an elected Usdaw H&S rep, admittedly in Distribution where we do get listened to, I can categorically state that this is unacceptable and the driver should grievance any such management response immediately.

When prescribed procedures are not applicable then, as the man on site, the only risk assessment relevant is yours and it cannot be overridden by someone sat in an office miles away.

If "the book" says front door or limits the number of flights acceptable to climb then that stands regardless of whether there should be a useable lift or not. If the lift is working then fine, if it isn't then it is not your problem.......simples!

Do management and customers know this! Far too many drivers and customers for that matter have been led to believe that we will carry shopping up the the customers front door. Frequently on the manifest I'll see customer comments of "5th floor no lift!!" As they know there is an issue with some drivers delivering and some not.

The book is deliberately vague and can be interpenetrated in numerous ways! What is safe/unsafe do deliver? Whether it is a grubby p**s stained tower block or a 3rd floor new build with no lift. What is the do and do not's.

I don't even work full time but I'm personally sick of the heavy loads, stairs and far too many deliveries for the short shifts. Something needs to be done.

hesketh

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #21 on: 05-12-19, 06:16PM »
I don't have access to the Dotcom manuals but as a customer it is easy to find the following:

Quote
We will deliver your order to the main entrance of the delivery address. At your request, our driver may carry your order into the delivery address, for example, to a particular floor in an apartment block or into your kitchen but only if: a. the driver has your permission and b. our driver believes that it is safe and practical to do as you request. We always reserve the right to deliver only to the main entrance of the delivery address.

The key part, for me, is b. our driver believes    This is not a "manager" in an office miles away! If your manager wishes to overrule your assessment then they will need to come to the address and demonstrate how they would deliver as requested. This is an accepted Tesco position, if your "Manager" cannot show you something is safe and achievable, then it isn't!

The major problem seems to be that there is no definition of how many floors are acceptable and different drivers will always have different opinions and abilities. I would have your H&S or Union rep escalate the matter for national/regional clarification.

Until this is done then my initial statement stands. Only the person on the spot can decide if something is safe......
Don't take life too seriously, no one has ever gotten out alive!

gomezz

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #22 on: 05-12-19, 08:22PM »
It does not just depend on the number of floors but how many trays / weight need to be carried up them.
"The progress of the kart is more important than its direction"

dfl

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #23 on: 15-12-19, 10:39PM »
And whether it is well lit or in the dark, our store has torches that aren't worth a sh**,  huge ones you can't carry to see where your going if already carrying shopping, no decent head band type, or maybe no batteries working in any of them either.
DFL

Eb2b

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Re: High flats lifts broken - safety
« Reply #24 on: 16-12-19, 05:30PM »
Have any drivers actually had any training on how to carry out a risk assessment? In a previous job the policy (for stairs) was always 3 point of contact available eg. "both feet and a hand" to prevent falling 
« Last Edit: 16-12-19, 05:32PM by Eb2b »

 

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