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Author Topic: Disciplinary Issues and Questions  (Read 3630 times)

Newmember2

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Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« on: 12-12-18, 09:59PM »
Hi,  I have a question regarding a member of staff in my store. They requested holidays earlier this year for time off for throughout the year, as requested by management. One such holiday has been and gone, since going on holiday they received 2 invitations to an investigation and by the time of getting back after a week an invitation to an appeal for dismissal was at their address. The first two invitations were hand delivered, what is the process for this?  No evidence of the holiday not being booked has come to light, the managers have not presented my colleague with any evidential information regarding this. Unfortunately they are a member of USDAW, and has been told that they cannot have a member of staff present in the interview who is trained by USDAW. They don’t have a copy of their holiday form and by the looks of it management don’t either. Often holidays are verbally agreed/changed etc without the two week procedure. Is there any advice I could get from people to help with this situation? The whole process has been hurried up with the hand delivery of the letters, not followed correct process. This member of staff has been out of work now for well over a month without pay. The holiday itself was booked earlier in the year. In addition to this a similar situation took place late August where the member of staff did have a holiday booked, comes back and finds that they are invited to interview - turns up early and it didn’t even take place! The managers at the first hearing said there were next steps and that the remaining holidays for the year should’ve been booked then, when originally they all had been earlier this year.   Any advice would be great.

Metal Mario

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #1 on: 13-12-18, 12:07AM »
Unfortunately they are a member of USDAW, and has been told that they cannot have a member of staff present in the interview who is trained by USDAW.

Just to clarify, are they a Member? Irrespective they are legally entitled to have a colleague of their choosing representing them.

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4066

Workers have a statutory right to be accompanied by a companion at a grievance meeting.

The companion may be:

a fellow worker (i.e. another of the employer's workers)
an official employed by a trade union
a workplace trade union representative, as long as they have been certified in writing by their union has having had experience.
The companion should be allowed to address the meeting, respond on behalf of the worker to any views expressed at the meeting, or confer with the worker during the hearing. The companion does not, however, have the right to answer on behalf of the worker.

Some worker may have an additional contractual right to be accompanied by a person other than listed above, for example, spouse, partner or legal representative.
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Redshoes

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #2 on: 13-12-18, 12:54AM »
Hard to argue was on holiday without forms but that works both ways. As has happened to someone else there is a case to argue. Can argue should have had annual holiday meeting and as had not done this has resulted in lack of paperwork. Ask about remaining holidays booked and if system.

RubyRed

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #3 on: 13-12-18, 05:18AM »
I don’t think there’s an issue with the letters being delivered by hand.  In terms of a trained usday rep as the colleague rep this happened in a store I worked in.  The Manager spoke to an AO from usdaw and he said it was a no as people pay for that representation in their union fees.

1man2jobs

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #4 on: 13-12-18, 06:17AM »
something similar happened to me and was simple to resolve

-holidays were booked and agreed verbally
-i went on holiday
-first day back I was asked to attend welcome back
-during welcome back i mentioned I had permission to be off
-it was alleged the manager I booked with didn't give me permission
-there was no paper trail
-i spoke to the specific manager and he said he didnt recall me asking for those specific holidays (total BS in my opinion) I corrected him
-kept repeating the facts that I had been given permission
-situation resolved

Newmember2

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #5 on: 13-12-18, 07:16AM »
Thanks all for your response. In terms of the letters being hand delivered, they were delivered by the store manager himself. Upon the second occasion he was caught as he was delivering the letter and the reason he gave was that ‘its process to hand deliver them’. The argument there would then be, if a colleague was off sick would the manager turn up at the house and deliver a letter and then again two days later. The emergency contact was not called into the situation and no duty of care was followed up I.e. involving the emergency services etc.  The colleague is not a member of USDAW. The antics within the store are often childish and professionalism is not followed. Having asked for all the evidence they are unable to produce the holiday request form, as what normally takes place is that management don’t return your copy of the form and leave their copy on the side. They therefore don’t have the evidence to back this up.  With the letters being hand delivered on the first day, the appropriate Tesco procedure in terms of timing between delivering and having the investigation was followed. The second time the letter was delivered the appropriate time frame wasn’t used. With them being hand delivered, this has speeded up the process so quick, where in the space of a week, the colleague has ended up being dismissed. I think it’s also a case of bullying to an extent, the person responsible for managing the holidays acted in an awful manner and always went through other members of staff to ask questions etc with those she didn’t get on well with.

lucgeo

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #6 on: 13-12-18, 04:02PM »
Who dismissed the colleague?? The Store manager?? If so, then you could argue that the process has been compromised..due to the fact that the SM hand delivered the letters....therefore the appeals process is contravened due to the fact that he knowingly knew what the letters were about and took part in the investigation by hand delivering them personally, so how can he be non biased when hearing the appeal before dismissing??

Also as stated by a another poster....the fact that the same situation happened previously, and that colleague was only given a lets talk, then the dismissal was unjust and inconsistent with the previous outcome, and therefore your friend can put in a grievance stating that fact.
« Last Edit: 13-12-18, 04:04PM by lucgeo »
Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

Newmember2

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #7 on: 13-12-18, 06:06PM »
Yes it was the store manager who did all the paperwork and then personally hand delivered the first two letters.  The third was then posted, but again it was written by the store manager and not an unbiased manager.  The same situation happened a few months back but they didn’t even have the interview, no let’s talk was given and was told to start work.

lucgeo

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #8 on: 13-12-18, 07:24PM »
Then use the above example in the appeal 8-) 8-)
Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

Newmember2

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #9 on: 17-12-18, 07:15PM »
Hi All. <br /><br />Unfortunately the appeal was denied. A number of points were brought up considering the time for a letter to be delivered, which policy was being followed etc. It seemed that the unauthorised absence policy was being used but then suddenly the appeal manager stated that the ‘solving problems at work’ policy was being used. After looking this up on ourtesco, this is an umbrella of all the policies relating to absence and discipline. Throughout the dismissal they picked and choose which part of the policy they wanted to use. Totally disregarded the fact that they did not provide the holiday request form, did not provide substantial evidence that any calls were made the the colleagues phone and came up with further poor excuses. When an incident occurred a month  ago the colleague was invited to an investigation, this did not occur and the ‘acting’ deputy manager verbally had a chat about this with the colleague on the shop floor, walked to the office and filled out a lets talk form and then brought this back to the colleague. The appeal manager constantly used this pathetic excuse for stating that a meeting had took place and no next steps were followed. The appeal manager confirmed that this was OK to do.   Managers in Tesco don’t know policy themselves to the letter and when confronted they are taken back. The colleague then stated at the end when it was over that this will be going to a employment tribunal.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Chahoo

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #10 on: 05-06-20, 04:25PM »
Wow this is going to be a strange one I wonder if anyone could advise. So in March I had 9 days holiday (all before cut off) I only received the 3 days BH as holiday pay and the 5 days holiday plus my PD were not paid. I was advised to wait until next pay day to see if it would show up and it didn’t. I was then told they would clock me in for the 6 days I was owed. Again I wasn’t paid. So I was assured and I confirmed everything with my manager I was like I better get paid right this month (jokingly) so again I didn’t get paid 😢 he’s the plot twist at the moment I am pregnant. I came out of a abusive relationship and found out (my manager was aware) I decided I was going to terminate the pregnancy but due to my earnings I’ve been told I don’t qualify for NHS help so to terminate is going to cost me £560!! I was relying on that payment being in on the beginning of mays wage so I could afford the termination and then relied on payment at end of mays wage. I’m currently 9 weeks pregnant and in total and utter turmoil mentally!! To top it all off I’ve been getting bullied by 3 colleagues (which was mentioned to my manager) one of them does payrol. I decided I’d had enough and was offered another job (taking a massive pay cut but was worth it for a peaceful life) I messaged my manager (as he is on holiday) just to say I was expressing my wish to hand in my notice but didn’t know who to with him being on holiday. He asked me why I was leaving and I explained to him it was because of the pay and I couldn’t understand why I wasn’t clocked in by payrol to which he replied that ‘he was angry with her as he asked her a few times to make sure it was sorted and kept getting told it was. (He’s a good manager he offered to give me the money out of his own pocket)
Anyways that message made my cheese slide off it’s cracker. Anyway I put this on Fb 🙄
Seen as my main man Jamie now knows I can tell the rest of my Tesco family! It’s with the heaviest of hearts (as I love each and every single one of you) I’ve decided to part company with Tesco’s. It’s been one hell of a journey with s*** loads of laughter and graft.
You just got to do what is right for your family at the end of the day and no-one should work as hard as I do and have to beg for my well earned wage at the end of the month!

One of the colleagues asked why I was leaving and I replied ‘them 3 bitches and the fact 1 of them hasn’t paid me right since December
(Dec because I was owed pay from December that I didn’t get until April 😳

I regret posting it my hormones are all over the place as well as my mental health. I’m a single parent and can’t express in words the impact this has had on my finances and mental health.

Once I calmed down I removed the post and was advised to raise a formal grievance. I turned up for my shift only to be suspended ‘breach of the social media policy’
I take responsibility for my post.

I didn’t hand in my notice and since then the job I was offered is only contracted to 40 hours due to the needs of the business with corona and social distancing so haven’t got that job to go to.
 
Would just really appreciate some advice

lucgeo

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #11 on: 05-06-20, 05:57PM »
Keep every written communication from your manager regarding your treatment, and bullying. Especially the acknowledgment of wage clerk disobedience in following management instructions, and anything else relevant to your case.

Contact your doctor as a matter of urgency regarding leaving an abusive relationship, causing your current mental health status and wish to terminate.

Are you in the union?? Contact a rep if you are, for support. If not, contact ACAS for advice.

Place a grievance for bullying and non payment of due monies owed, causing you severe financial hardship and affecting your mental wellbeing.

Ok, putting it on FB not one of your best moves, but then again, in your defence, due to your current Heath status, which you feel was caused as a direct result of the deliberate  practices of the wages dept against you , in contravention to Tesco policies and core values.

Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

Chahoo

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #12 on: 05-06-20, 07:19PM »
Thank for for the advice lucgeo I really appreciate it.

I am a member of Usdaw but been advised to put the grievance in for non payment of wages. They told me they won’t attend the investigation meeting but will turn up to my disciplinary meeting. I thought Usdaw would be more helpful, I’ve never had to write a grievance. I have googled it since and in the process of typing up a grievance for my pay.

I haven’t deleted any messages. Since I put this post I am overwhelmed with the support that I have received off my fellow colleagues and it transpires another colleague feels like she is getting bullied by one of the individuals so fingers crossed they support my case or better still raise a grievance herself.

I contacted my GP a few weeks back and due to corona I am unable to see a Dr they did give me a charity number to call with regards to my mental health. I’m not suffering any mental health issues due to my previous relationship. It’s the fact I left and found out I was pregnant. I just want closure of that relationship and my mental health issues have been because I feel I’ve been pregnant way longer than I should of been and that is due to the financial position Tesco’s have put me in.

I never vent about work issues on Facebook just hope I am not going to lose my job.

NightAndDay

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #13 on: 05-06-20, 08:01PM »
The amount of payroll issues I've encountered at Tesco is beyond a joke, I've written to my MP to try push through legislation that requires all payroll clerks to be suitably qualified and for more regular payroll audits and reviews to be conducted as well as to change the 3 month resolution limit on claiming back moneys owed. I don't need to talk about the amount of times that Tesco has issued out letters from their CFO explaining how they've "inadvertantly paid so and so less than the national minimum wage due to ways of working".

I personally think that far more regulation, legislation and oversight by government bodies is needed to actually enforce accountability.

Chahoo

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #14 on: 06-06-20, 10:26AM »
Moderator Comment Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).

Totally agree with you! I have worked for Tesco’s for over 2 years and every month I have a discrepancy with my pay. When I stepped up to be a shift leader I never got my step up pay. I’m currently first aider and I’m not getting the supplement for that. Breaks aren’t covered and this woman in payroll has told me the previous manager didn’t allow payments for breaks so we aren’t getting them paid. I didn’t get paid for holidays taken in December too only just got that money back in beginning of May's pay! It’s shocking how many Tesco’s payroll issues there are!! Doesn’t help that any HR issues are dealt with forms sent to India via comms centre!

Tesco need to get their act together really!

penguin

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #15 on: 06-06-20, 11:56AM »
Manager has no say on paid breaks, if you are unable to leave the store for your break due to being the only trained shift leader in the building your break is paid, you would be well within your rights to raise a grievance about non payment of breaks in that situation.
Tesco - the moden day word for workhouse

80377494

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #16 on: 06-06-20, 01:34PM »
While you're all blaming the wages/payroll clerk for incorrect payments, just have a think about who actually gives them the information required in order to pay you. I question codings for exceptions every single day.
 
Chachoo
How were the 6 days coded? Were they deducted from your pay? I don't understand why they say they'll clock you in and out for the six days. If the days were coded as unpaid they will need to send Retrospective Forms to correct the mistake.

Chahoo

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Re: Disciplinary Issues and Questions
« Reply #17 on: 06-06-20, 03:11PM »
I am trained in payroll and believe me I don’t know what the hell has happened. I haven’t seen the payroll reports personally but the manager told me that I had been coded as holiday and he couldn’t understand why I wasn’t paid. They believed it was due to India being on lockdown and them not being able to ‘press a button’ 😂🔫
So I was advised by my manager to wait until next pay as it might get rectified at India’s end and I’ll end up with my pay. At this point I was already waiting for wages owed from December and forms were sent to India every week to chase the missing pay only for the forms to be rejected. I only received Decembers pay in May but I only received that because they clocked me in on the days I didn’t work to compensate.
Back to March holiday pay they said they was going to clock me in for the days I were owed but 9 weeks later and I still haven’t been clocked in. Human error is why I haven’t been paid so nice April if you’ve agreed to clock me in to compensate and that said person hasn’t clocked me in then why? You can’t leave me a not on the weds morning before payday telling me I won’t be receiving my outstanding pay. She asked me for my weeks 2&3 wage slips???? We don’t even receive weekly wage slips but as payroll you can check payroll reports so why she asking me for them??? I don’t have access.
Why is my manager telling me that on more than one occasion he asked her over the 4 weeks to cut off if she had sorted my pay out and checked in with me to show me it was done and she told him she did when I fact the first I even heard anything from her was weds morning before payday with a silly note???


 

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