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Very Little Helps => Stores => Topic started by: tempo35 on 29-04-20, 10:20AM

Title: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: tempo35 on 29-04-20, 10:20AM
Today I opened a letter from my manager explaining that I must attend a disciplinary meeting on Saturday, due to allegations against me for “manually putting on club card points”. Around 2 weeks ago I scanned a receipt to see if it was possible to get points with your colleague club card as I had a few receipts at home. I might have done it again a few days later, but I am genuinely not sure if I did a second time. Obviously, this was incredibly stupid of me, but after doing some research I’ve found out they take this stuff quite seriously. I have planned to use one of my parents as a rep, but I’ve been seriously panicking for the last couple of hours about possibly losing my job.
If anyone could give me any advice it would be great.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Phoneshopguy on 29-04-20, 10:34AM
Dont use a family member as a rep, they mess things up without realising because they are too involved.

I was in a grievance disciplinary recently and the appeal was in my favour for a number of reasons but mainly cause of a family member "rep" going against a policy they know little about.

Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: tempo35 on 29-04-20, 10:39AM
What would you suggest I do then?
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Redshoes on 29-04-20, 10:40AM
Anything Clubcard is easily tracked. It can also be tracked down to a very small level. I have seen PFS colleagues flag up for a meal deal. They were often serving on each other's numbers but it looks like serving yourself. Since then the system has improved. All can be traced on back system and if you have the hub the atandard of CCTV is crystal clear.
Don't even attempt to hide what you have done, you can't.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Redshoes on 29-04-20, 10:50AM
If you are a vulnerable adult or under 18 you can have a parent or family member with you but their role is moral support and not to represent you.
A rep is a union rep or an experienced colleague but the level of what they can do differs. Neither can answer on your behalf but can ensure correct procedure is followed and put a case forward for you. This is in simplistic terms.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Phoneshopguy on 29-04-20, 10:53AM
What do I suggest you do? Honestly, go in there, be honest, explain you made a mistake and that you dont remember doing it the second time.

How much were these points worth? 5p? £500? It all makes a difference. We dont have the ins and outs like you're disciplinary record etc to go off.

But, for arguments sake let's say you have worked for tesco for 10 years, the points were only 5PC's worth and this is you're first offence in 5 years... well its gonna get blown over just by you explaining it was a genuine mistake you are extremely sorry about it and you will make sure that you wont ever keep you're clubcard on you again (why did you have it on you???)

Obviously if you have only been at tesco for 5 minutes and the clubcard points were quite a few then, in the nicest possible way, assuming all the paperwork is correct t and no one messes up the meetings then, well I'm sorry but yeah, its gonna be classed as theft.

Again, I'm not in you're store, I dunno the ins and outs, but that's what I would expect to happen.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: tempo35 on 29-04-20, 10:55AM
If you are a vulnerable adult or under 18 you can have a parent or family member with you but their role is moral support and not to represent you.
A rep is a union rep or an experienced colleague but the level of what they can do differs. Neither can answer on your behalf but can ensure correct procedure is followed and put a case forward for you. This is in simplistic terms.
The issue is, I am not part of a union and I don't have enough time to join one as the investigation has already started. As well as this, I'm not particularly close with any of the experienced colleagues at my store.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: tempo35 on 29-04-20, 10:57AM
What do I suggest you do? Honestly, go in there, be honest, explain you made a mistake and that you dont remember doing it the second time.

How much were these points worth? 5p? £500? It all makes a difference. We dont have the ins and outs like you're disciplinary record etc to go off.

But, for arguments sake let's say you have worked for tesco for 10 years, the points were only 5PC's worth and this is you're first offence in 5 years... well its gonna get blown over just by you explaining it was a genuine mistake you are extremely sorry about it and you will make sure that you wont ever keep you're clubcard on you again (why did you have it on you???)

Obviously if you have only been at tesco for 5 minutes and the clubcard points were quite a few then, in the nicest possible way, assuming all the paperwork is correct t and no one messes up the meetings then, well I'm sorry but yeah, its gonna be classed as theft.

Again, I'm not in you're store, I dunno the ins and outs, but that's what I would expect to happen.
I've been here for 7 months, and this is the first time something like this has happened. From what I remember as well, it was only a small amount.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Redshoes on 29-04-20, 10:59AM
If you have made a mistake the best thing to do is to admit it.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: tempo35 on 29-04-20, 11:08AM
Admitting it and being honest is what I want to do, I just need some help with a rep
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 29-04-20, 11:39AM
Is there not an ex rep instore, that you coukd ask some advice from?? They may even offer to sit in? Does no longer established colleagues take newbies under their wing in your store??
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Siwel123 on 29-04-20, 01:31PM
Not close to any longer term employees? I'm sure there would be someone in store happy to sit in with you and give you advice and help if you asked. They may not be your best mate in store, but there's usually a few people who will offer to help and sit in with people, union or not
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: bazlindon on 29-04-20, 02:21PM
You are entitled to have a union rep for your disciplinary hearing whether you are a member of the union or not.
Just tell them you would like a union rep, before your hearing and they cannot continue with meeting until they get you one.
If they don't , at the meeting the first question they will ask is do you need a union rep etc and if you say yes then they have to adjourn the meeting until they get you one.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: tempo35 on 29-04-20, 04:53PM
Well I have asked my manager if they know anyone in the store who is an ex-rep, or someone who is familiar with the situation, and they've straight up ignore me :/
Not really sure where to go from here in all honesty
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Redshoes on 30-04-20, 07:16AM
There will be a list of union reps up on the wall. The ones in my store have phone numbers and say what dept they work in. Give one a ring.
A manager can help and support you get a rep but they fall short of organising it for you.
As I said, a parent or guardian is for moral support and not to represent you, they can attend in addition to a rep if you fall within a vulnerable category.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: biggerpicture on 30-04-20, 08:09AM
I wasn’t aware you could have a union rep for a disciplinary meeting if you weren’t a member.  Is this correct?
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 30-04-20, 09:15AM
You're not entitled to union representation if you're a non member. But I think you've been steered wrong here, as if I'm reading it right, you haven't actually had your first meeting yet, so you can join the union today and have representation from the off!

Also if you are unable to get one to attend for the first meeting, you can adjourn the meeting until you are able to secure union representation. If they try to go ahead with it, stating you have been given enough time to secure representation, cite your managers refusal to your assist you when asked, when you were obviously "emotionally flooded"..but it was a "my manager listens to me" non conversation. ( Tesco speak) HA!
If it proceeds, your first question should be are you fit to continue? "No! I'm emotionally flooded" do you want a rep? "Yes" all this should be written down in your notes, if not, refuse to sign until it is included.

You can also phone your USDAW local area office, to join and request a rep, their number is on the union board along with your instore union reps contact details, though I'd be suprised if they have their phone numbers listed for contact? But try, if time permits,  to get the instore rep to sign you up first, it goes in your favour :thumbup:
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: bazlindon on 30-04-20, 10:21AM
This is taken from citizens advice direct website.

Quote
"If you’re not a member of a trade union
You don’t need to be a member of a trade union. You can ask an official from any trade union to come with you. The union doesn't have to be recognised by your employer.

If you want to be accompanied
You must ask your employer. It's best to do it in writing so that you have a record that the disciplinary or dismissal procedure has been followed.

Your employer doesn’t have to let you be accompanied unless you ask to be."

I know you have to be a member of the union for any appeals or if it goes further but your FIRST meeting , you are allowed a union rep if you need one on your initial meeting.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 30-04-20, 11:30AM
Are you taking that quote in its entirety?  8-)

It could be interpreted as being the recognised trade union for your business? In that another union, to whom you are a member, can represent you, instead of the recognised workplace union.

However, that quote would have you believe that you can have representation without being a union member of any union...can't really see it

Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Morris999 on 30-04-20, 12:16PM
You might well be allowed a union rep in your meetings if your not a Union member, however the union is under no obligation to provide a union rep!
And I know many unions will not provide one if you do not pay there union membership fee, usdaw included.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 30-04-20, 08:28PM
I had investigation meeting my letter said different to investigator one so proved it was lies so am i able to get copies of the statement the manager made that is evidence he lued he lied he said i tore the letter up i still have it and showes  its not torn up and thrown at him 
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 30-04-20, 11:37PM
Letter?? or investigation notes?

Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 01-05-20, 12:07PM
I got investigation letter stating I scrunched up another letter up and threw it at manager, which is false.  I had a meeting and the allegation they said was that I tore the letter up and threw it, false again as I still have the letter.  When I said that is different to my letter she asked to look at it then changed the wording, can I, obtain statement the manager did, as proves he lied because I have the letter.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 01-05-20, 12:24PM
If you can prove that the investigation was improperly handled you can put in a grievance, depending on how they handle it, you might have a case for legal recourse if you talk to ACAS.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 01-05-20, 12:58PM
You say " the allegation they said" was this a formal meeting with notes? " changed the wording? So was the original wording written down in notes and then crossed out and changed, or was change in wording added?
If notes were taken, then it should state in those notes, the managers stated claim.
Or did she take your letter and change the wording on that??
Falsifying records is a serious breach of conduct.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 02-05-20, 01:04AM
No I have the letter, when the meeting started she said allegation of tearing letter and throwing it at manager, I was shocked and said my invite letter does not say that, she asked to see the letter then said to note taker have to change  the wording union was taking notes too so should be there.  I feel I'm being targeted because I had investigation regarding putting cigs behind till from delivery but process was not followed I did not get invite, I put them in safe place but colleague who left them unattended not a word said to her.

Union said process was not followed so it will be OK disciplinary was postponed due to coronavirus I was off for 2 weeks I returned to work in another store then 2 weeks later get a letter saying another 2 allegations.  I was shocked  I want to put grievance in  >:D
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 02-05-20, 08:57AM
Speak to the rep who was accompanying you at the meeting, get their feedback and advice on going forward with regard placing a grievance.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 02-05-20, 12:00PM
Will do thanks
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 02-05-20, 01:43PM
Also you can ask for a copy of the notes from the meeting.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 02-05-20, 04:30PM
Yes i have all the notes what about the manager statement he must of done one for investigation
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 02-05-20, 04:54PM
Was the statement not referred to in the meeting?? Your rep should have been made aware of the accusations made by the manager in his statement, otherwise how can you defend yourself if you don't know what you are being accused of?
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 02-05-20, 07:09PM
She had questions written down  she started by saying other allegations have come up and said first one your torned letter up and through it at manager i said pardon my invite says something else she asked to look at letter then then i replied i still have the letter  its not torn up she looked shooked when i showed her so im thinking hed statement says i torn letter up but my invite said i scrunched it up
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 02-05-20, 07:56PM
Was the statement not referred to in the meeting?? Your rep should have been made aware of the accusations made by the manager in his statement, otherwise how can you defend yourself if you don't know what you are being accused of?

If the notetaker was in the meeting then this should have been written down anyway.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 02-05-20, 08:32PM
No she had a list of questions ticking off one by one i did not see any statement only mine ones that i signed not seen any from manager
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 07-05-20, 08:57AM
Hi Had meeting and was proven that they were not true the lady said she emailed her finding to area manager and people manager also meeting with the 2 managers in question to .inform them of her findings i will be also getting all my money back and now they are supporting me i wanted to put grievance in my union said leave it now that the area manager and people manager know of the finding will they be dealt with
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 07-05-20, 09:57AM
You will not be privvy to what action is taken against any manager...however there is nothing wrong with you placing a grievance against the manager, this should be dealt with seperately, and dealt with following the outcome from this. It is not a grievance that relates to this meeting, but a seperate grievance against the manager and his conduct, prior to it.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 07-05-20, 06:51PM
I know that .i was victimised  with lies which was  proven i just hope they will be spoken to and not brushed under carpet i know union said leave it but i dont want it happening to anybody else
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: just curious on 07-05-20, 07:25PM
You could always consider speaking to a solicitor / Legal professional and consider bringing a claim for defamation of character - slander . Tesco would have to give any information required to the solicitor / courts otherwise they could also be held responsible for contempt of court - preventing the course of justice ? .
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 07-05-20, 08:00PM
Well hopefully area manager will pop in and see me im in another store temp so hopefully will not need to go back
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: chris9997 on 07-05-20, 09:52PM
Hi does anyone know can you object to the person taking the meeting and note taker on the grounds they have a common out of work link
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 07-05-20, 10:18PM
Yes you can request a different note taker i did because i knew the person so they changed it 
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 08-05-20, 12:12AM
You will not be privvy to what action is taken against any manager...however there is nothing wrong with you placing a grievance against the manager, this should be dealt with seperately, and dealt with following the outcome from this. It is not a grievance that relates to this meeting, but a seperate grievance against the manager and his conduct, prior to it.

It will probably be a lets talk lol.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 08-05-20, 12:29AM
Well im in another store temp now this has happened they cant force me to go back before this happened area manager popped in to see me and said there was no vacancies in the area and i could do a alternative job role till a vacancy comes up well no chance of that  now will they let me stay whrre i am till a vacancy comes up
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 08-05-20, 09:53AM
You should really have got some agreement in writing regarding your ongoing employment with Tesco. A " temporary" solution in not a solution in the long run...what's to say in three months time, they insist you return to your previous store, with the manager still in situ, having been " spoken to!" You are probably still being paid by the other store, so that won't go on indefinitely. Unsure why you have to wait for a vacancy, if the findings went in your favour, why are you the one expected in agreeing to changes in your employment? You should be very careful about signing any new contracts, especially when changes in location are involved.

What money did you get back??
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 08-05-20, 11:09AM
This was said before my meeting regarding no vacancies etc  and she said after investigation is done we will discuss it if nessesary so waiting to see then week 3 when it was crazy in stores manager on holiday and shift leader only 2 of us running store i did extra hrs which buddy manager  people manager were aware  of so i put hours through ptaf report on desk then when manager returned from holiday accused me of putting through unaurthorised hrs i got them deducted in meeting was proven i did do hrs and told i will be getting all my hrs back 
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 18-05-20, 06:21PM
I never understood how completed hours could be unauthorized if the hours are already done,  if they're already done then by law they must be paid (unless salaried), if they were unauthorized before the hours were completed, then I'd imagine there's a semi-comprehensive policy somewhere which details the amount of notice that must be given to the employee if cancellation of overtime were to occur.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 18-05-20, 11:19PM
It was the crazy week of buying i supported the store people manager manager popped to see me and said in front of buddy manager hrs you work make sure they are put through also there was only 2 shift leaders running the store 7hrs paid breaks so i put hrs on buddy store manager signed payroll following week my manager accused me of putting on unautherised hours when they were  its ok im getting all hours back and the other allegation were thrown out proven to be false
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Redshoes on 19-05-20, 03:00AM
I never understood how completed hours could be unauthorized if the hours are already done,  if they're already done then by law they must be paid (unless salaried), if they were unauthorized before the hours were completed, then I'd imagine there's a semi-comprehensive policy somewhere which details the amount of notice that must be given to the employee if cancellation of overtime were to occur.


Depends on if authorised or not. If you decide to stay back to do a task, that is your choice but not authorised so does not have to be paid. If you are asked to stay back that is authorised and paid, if you say you have run out of time but there is something you have not done but you are willing to stay and its agreed that's authorised.
This is in very simplistic terms. Paid overtime should always be agreed/authorised. It should not be decided by colleagues as there are set hours and overtime needs to be accounted for so if not authorised it's unpaid as not accounted for. Saying this, manager may look into overtime used when not authorised and then decide. It's up to the manager to ensure they stick to budget regardless of in the store or not. They may have been challenged on overspending.
Overtime can be cancelled and often is. Sometimes it's to cover sick but person has come back. They should inform you before you turn up for work. I'm not 100% on this but if in the building its too late to cancel but if colleague wants to they can go home if overtime is not needed. If not already in the building it can be cancelled before the shift starts. Someone returning to work only needs to give an hours notice but often give more. Checkouts tend to be the best at managing this as there is always team support in and if told they just sort it. If non-food manager taking the call for grocery but grocery manager not yet in it will depend, the manager taking the call may not know if shift has been covered by overtime and needs to be cancelled. All that will depend on how good the rota for the dept is, who is in for that dept when call is taken etc. All managers do not know all overtime shifts in all Depts in the store. They can however talk to people to try and find out.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 19-05-20, 11:30AM
Like I said it was authorised by the people manager when she popped in, buddy manager did not tell my manager and it went to investigation which was thrown out like the buddy store manager saying I tore the letter up and threw it at him, again I have the letter proved he lied too, grievance has been put in also had investigation for not checking cigs off, but no investigation for manager who did not give me invite letter they said they put in my folder so he did not follow process also.  So a lot to deal with.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 23-05-20, 04:38PM
Can anyone help i had a disciplinary regarding not checking cigarettes off which i have appealled question is im in another store and today one of the managers that had been giving me a hard time was instore has covering store he was in the office my colleague went in the office and there was 4 boxes of cigs that come in in front of manager he opened them up and put them away without checking them  i know i put mine behind till in a safe place and did not open them i got done for not following process not checking cigs off i am not to blame for the cig theft has colleague behind till left them unattended that she opened i will speak to union who else can i speak to as I've been treated unfairly
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lackofinterest on 23-05-20, 07:20PM
the correct procedure is you inform duty manager when cigarettes come in, then it's their responsibility to put them away, not yours. another useless tw*t blaming somebody else which doesn't surprise me. union should never have allowed it to go to disciplinary in the first place!!! you don't have to check them off, that should be done by front end team leader or manager. bottom line is the duty manager is at fault if he was informed, if not then person accepting the delivery is at fault for not letting them know.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meetin
Post by: lucgeo on 23-05-20, 07:28PM
Where do you want to go with this...what do you hope to achieve? Did you see the manager not checking the order off, or just your colleague telling you it's what they saw? Are they willing to state it as fact, and is there surveillance camera/hub in the office? If covered by hub, phone protector line. But if not covered by either and it was just you, you and your colleague or just your colleague, why didn't either of you confront the manager for not following security procedure? Everyone has a right to a voice, and you have a right to challenge any manager if you feel they're not following correct stock security procedures. Perhaps the colleague is just stirring things up here? If you've no concrete proof, let it go...it quickly becomes tit for tat...make a note of dates and times and move on.
My bigger concern is, going from your previous posts regarding this manager, and the fact you were exonerated and it was proven that this manager had lied, an agreement reached for you to move store to be away from this manager. Then why was he in your store as your manager?? Surely this should have been part of the investigation completion and agreement going forward, of you needing to move stores, to distance yourself from him?
Was there any agreement reached, covering this??
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 23-05-20, 10:14PM
OK I'm in another store temp this manager is covering the store delivery come in by the way I'm a shift leader so is my colleague.  My colleague brought the cigarettes to the office I was there too, manager was on the computer when they were being put away manager did not question why cigs are not being checked off  nothing and yet I got disciplined for it so I feel most stores don't follow process and I feel I'm treated unfairly.

Like today he said to me have mags been booked I said no got till 11am he said who told you that I said "part of training" he said "I will find out", I have checked and it's 11am so I can't say anything.

In my appeal will they take it that I have been treated unfairly?  I got a final written which union are dealing with as disciplinary process was not followed either, disciplinary manager just said sorry was not interested and knew process was not followed also they tried to force me to go back to my store even though I have told them by email a number of times  I do not feel safe there, I also have anxiety which they are aware of.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: penguin on 24-05-20, 10:12AM
Something doesn’t seem right with all this, firstly when you say you got disciplined over the cigarettes was this an actual formal disciplinary or just a let’s talk or even a do not do that again comment and nothing more, process is for cigs to be checked off line by line after printing out the list from 161 and I can assure you most stores do follow the process, given the high value and risk of being accused of anything should the process be found not to have been done correctly.

I’m also not sure what the issue is with asking if news and mags booked in, manager asked you answered and after checking it seems your time scale was right, can’t see why you would need to say anything.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Redshoes on 24-05-20, 10:19AM
Has the appeal taken place yet? If not you just need to let the process continue.
You can only to a certain extent bring up what others do. If it forms part of defence regarding the fact that you did nothing different from anyone else on the team did then this is a store culture issue.
If you are just wanting to say others do things wrong too then it's only partly relevant. In simple terms, ifyou committed murder and it went to trail you could not plead that other people do it too but you can use personal background and experiences
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 24-05-20, 10:43AM
I got a final  written when yes its a culture thing in store manager only started putting processes in to place week before  i dont think its right could of been dealt with in store and i was not the one that left the cigarettes unattended and they blame me for the loss these 2 managers tried to add another 2 allegations against me which waa proven to be lies but they dont get dealt with a manager does not to follow process its ok but others are disciplined thanks for the help hopefully the appeal will see it
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lackofinterest on 24-05-20, 11:17AM
what is your union rep doing for you while all this is going on and what were they doing when you were given a final written for something you didn't do or wasn't your fault?
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 24-05-20, 11:21AM
You're all over the place with this, and it's not helping your anxiety by trying to pre-empt the appeal meeting.
Your rep is appealing your disciplinary warning, due to being out if process, if that is the case the warning should be overturned. The warning was given on the investigation at the time, and all relevant issues at that time. The same manager has now breached the set procedures that you were disciplined for initially, but this is a seperate issue, and should be dealt with seperately. You can report this incident for investigation, which is when you can cite your initial final warning as an example of the disciplinary deemed appropriate for the same misconduct.
It's all well and good standing your ground, but don't let it turn into a slanging match with this manager...if he's trying to provoke you, he's succeeding...I.e. News& mags timeframe, said he'll check, you know you're right so let him check, he should already know the timings as a manager!
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 24-05-20, 11:39AM
Just to add, the main reason why it's so important for Tesco to follow the disciplinary process is because in the end, they aren't the final arbiters of judgement, no, the ET will determine whether Tesco conducted their investigations and reprimands in an objective and fair way if it goes to court.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 24-05-20, 01:38PM
I was not given a invite letter for second meeting i was on holiday i returned i was called in for meeting manager said put letter in folder the reason why i said can carry on the manager said to me will only be a lets talk i will see how appeal goes
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lackofinterest on 24-05-20, 02:15PM
if there's one thing i've learnt it's never go into any "meeting" with a manager without a union rep even a lets talk!!!
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: hesketh on 24-05-20, 05:11PM
Going in to a meeting alone with a manager is not a problem. Sometimes it's the best way to clear the air, they have no witness either.

Just refuse to sign anything and deny anything you don't like afterwards....
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 25-05-20, 07:08PM
Store i am in is extremley busy since lockdow up 40% in sales today same manager come into  store mid morning store had been very busy yesterday and short staff due to eid i did my best store was faced up  so today from 6am store has been really busy he started moaning to my other colleague has he ignores me saying would you accept this from previous night shift leader we have been opened since 6am so rumble was not done so due to short staff i feel like hes victimising me trying to make be look incompetence in my job i take pics of everything i do due to my anxiety i asked to be refered to occupational health they got him to do referrel he tried to say to me my job role involves alot i told him nothing to do with my job role im still doing my job 100% which pics proves it  just dont know what to do just want someone to listen and help can i have a inparcial manager see me instead of him hes not even my manager hes covering store  :(
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: penguin on 25-05-20, 07:27PM
To be honest this sounds like its become a personal issue between the two of you now, if he is covering the store in place of the usual store manager then all you can really do is contact the area manager to raise your concerns, mediation via an impartial manager between the two of you could be an option but if truth be told never usually solves much unless it sorts out whatever the underlying issue is.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 29-05-20, 12:52AM
Not personal, he's a bully. Yesterday last straw I have an adjustment passport for my anxiety he wanted a meeting with me I was told it was regarding my adjustment passport turned out he was giving me a lets talk because I started work earlier, in my adjustment it states if in an uncomfortable place or situation I get very anxious I got up to leave the room because my body started to shake, he refused me to leave and said "no you are staying" I explained it's in my passport but he did want to know he shouted and said "where is it" told him in the office he said there was nothing there stating it so he carried on then when he left the room I broke down shaking even more.  So no he's a nasty piece of work, I've got a witness another shift leader was present and in black and white it states what I said.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 29-05-20, 06:03PM
If there's cctv as well, the shift leader can't say it didn't happen, if you've already grievanced against the manager before, do so again citing disability discrimination, as your adjustment passport counts as documentation, the Personnel manager has a legal obligation to investigate and reprimand in an impartial way, not doing so would leave the company liable to a disability discrimination lawsuit where the fines and payouts would be enough for the HR directors to get involved.

The HR directors by the way, are people the Area Manager DO NOT want to be involved, as their involvement would damage their promotion prospects to director level and may even cause them to be demoted over failure to nip the managerial incompetence in the bud.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 30-05-20, 01:13PM
No cctv  was in training room had another shift leader in there so he saw it all i am taking it further i have sent a numbet of emails regarding my saftey and nothing so taking it to the next level since being being sactioned which i had appeal meeting yesterday this manager is constantly picking gave me a lets talk because i started 2hrs earlier has the night before store was manic due to eid and being bank holiday so went in earlier to complete what was not done as he would of moaned so cant win he said i have to follow rota when staff dont have break and finish half an early then wanted to do another lets talk regarding colleagues which there is one where he takes photos of staff contantly checking up on them etc id asked him to take someone off the till and was getting a lets talk manager also said im not to manage staff   i said i need to leave the room im getting very anxious he said you do not walk away i explained its in my adjustment passport he said there is nothing to state it you wont leave this meeting will finish it ts for all the advice i have taken an emergancy holiday so i am safe
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Redshoes on 31-05-20, 09:45AM
You don't have a good relationship with your manager so to avoid extra friction I would advise not to change your shifts or rearrange things in work to avoid friction.
You may be right but it's not your call and it's only adding to the issues. Overtime has to be booked and accounted for, it's very high focus just now in some stores and it's up to the manager to decide where to place the very limited hours. You can disagree but it's not your choice or accountability.
You also can't move your shift because you think it would be better placed at another time. Again, it is not your accountability.
If your manager has made a mistake and not covered or accounted for special circumstances it is a mistake they will be taken to task on. They are accountable and the scheduling is down to them. It then goes two ways in stores. Some colleagues will point out mistakes and that's either because they don't want to suffer mistakes or just because they want to help. Others will see mistakes and sit back and watch and even enjoy seeing things go wrong. It is the responsibility of the manager but I personally feel we are a team and there is no harm in pointing things out.
You are in a difficult position due to the relationship you have with your manager. I can't see that you pointing out mistakes would help so I would advise you not to do so but you most certainly should not take it upon yourself to correct them.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 31-05-20, 11:16AM
No cctv  was in training room had another shift leader in there so he saw it all i am taking it further i have sent a numbet of emails regarding my saftey and nothing so taking it to the next level since being being sactioned which i had appeal meeting yesterday this manager is constantly picking gave me a lets talk because i started 2hrs earlier has the night before store was manic due to eid and being bank holiday so went in earlier to complete what was not done as he would of moaned so cant win he said i have to follow rota when staff dont have break and finish half an early then wanted to do another lets talk regarding colleagues which there is one where he takes photos of staff contantly checking up on them etc id asked him to take someone off the till and was getting a lets talk manager also said im not to manage staff   i said i need to leave the room im getting very anxious he said you do not walk away i explained its in my adjustment passport he said there is nothing to state it you wont leave this meeting will finish it ts for all the advice i have taken an emergancy holiday so i am safe

You have a right to a voice...it's a core value of Tesco, you should never be dissuaded from speaking up, especially as you had the foresight to arrive earlier to get the store ready for the day's trading.
I agree you shouldn't change your shift without prior agreement, however, your reasoning should have been commended not given a condemning "let's talk"! No one should be forgoing their breaks to finish earlier, it's against the regulations and also makes having a rota in place pointless.
If you feel you need to leave the room...you leave the room! As is the right of any colleague, passport or not...refusing and detaining you against your will, is bullying and could be classed as imprisonment and gross misconduct!
If you are a shift leader, part of your role is to assist the manager in running the department smoothly, which would be to take someone off the till, if need be...thats why you get more per hour than a CA.

With regard the taking of photos of colleagues? For what purpose? Are the colleagues aware of these photos being taken, and have they given their permission for them to be taken? More importantly what is he doing with these images? He is in breach of so many Tesco policies, privacy laws, possibly bordering on voyeurism.

Get your grievance in on constant harassment bullying, and being detained against your will. ( your colleague as a witness to this ) Note in your grievance your grave concerns regarding the surreptitious taking and storing of colleagues photos, whilst working on Tesco property, without their consent ( and knowledge if this is the case )

Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 31-05-20, 08:36PM
No cctv  was in training room had another shift leader in there so he saw it all i am taking it further i have sent a numbet of emails regarding my saftey and nothing so taking it to the next level since being being sactioned which i had appeal meeting yesterday this manager is constantly picking gave me a lets talk because i started 2hrs earlier has the night before store was manic due to eid and being bank holiday so went in earlier to complete what was not done as he would of moaned so cant win he said i have to follow rota when staff dont have break and finish half an early then wanted to do another lets talk regarding colleagues which there is one where he takes photos of staff contantly checking up on them etc id asked him to take someone off the till and was getting a lets talk manager also said im not to manage staff   i said i need to leave the room im getting very anxious he said you do not walk away i explained its in my adjustment passport he said there is nothing to state it you wont leave this meeting will finish it ts for all the advice i have taken an emergancy holiday so i am safe

Managers can't give out lets talks willy nilly if used as informals. There needs to be a significant reason, if a judge looked at why you're being reprimanded and sees "started 2 hours early" he/she would have some very interesting questions to ask, in fact, If you grievance the spurious lets talks, the Personnel manager, even if they were in cahoots with the mateyboy manager would take them aside and ask what they're playing at, having the challenging conversations about the difference between managing someone out of the business and leaving the Big T open to serious litigation.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: alf on 31-05-20, 09:33PM
The literal point of let's talks is to be informal, i.e. No one has been reprimanded (officially at least) as that's not their purpose.

Regardless of whatever business is going on between bubbles and their manager/s, a let's talk over starting far before scheduled is a perfect use of let's talk, it's their entire point.

Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 31-05-20, 10:15PM
Lets talks are documented and is the starting process for managing people out of the business, three lets talks on the same issue are required before it goes to written warnings.

As for a lets talk about starting 2 hours early, we don't know the full story, Bubbles says she started early to help out, but I don't see why she would be compelled to, if she was asked, then the lets talk should be treated as harrassment, if being performanced managed via an SYP plan, she may not have been allocated sufficient resources (not given the tools to do their job) on what is being assesssed.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 31-05-20, 11:55PM
Reason i went early was because not all was done so i went in to finish as manager is bullying so i would of got lets talk either way so to forced  me to stay in a room when stated in my adjustment passport due to anxiety  is acceptable this is a miner thing so dont see why a lets talk is needed  union have done a formal complaint for discrimmination but then you have staff dont have a break and go home early and nothing so no dont think lets talk to manage people out.managers take advantage of it  it was bank holiday and eid no staff because hes bullying me i wanted to make sure it was done before he come in is it a crime a thank you would of been nice

Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Redshoes on 01-06-20, 06:22AM
We have found as a store that when clocking in early it has an impact on the overtime. It's unauthorised, does not matter if corrected with wages system via exceptions. Once clocked it the tablet takes it as paid work. We should be paid for what we do, this is only right but if you are using unauthorised overtime it will cause issues.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 01-06-20, 11:21AM
No overtine did my normal hrs just started earlier so no extra
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: alf on 01-06-20, 02:10PM
That's not the point really, you do not get to reschedule your shifts as you see  fit.

Honestly, pick your battles, and stop doing stupid s*** that puts a target on your back.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: penguin on 01-06-20, 02:11PM
You really cannot just go in and start early and therefore finish early just because you think its the right thing to do, rotas are done for a reason and I know this wont go down well but your manager regardless of the issues with you both was fully correct to issue a lets talk over this, stores would end up in chaos if people start turning up and going home whenever they see fit.


Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 01-06-20, 03:11PM
But its ok for staff not to have their breaks and go home early when someone is in fear of going to work and did not want any hassel i went in to make sure i would be safe i did not do any extra its not as tho i do it regular first time normally i would of not worried but due to constant bullying and being victimised since i got sanctioned which proves trying to get me out by doing lets talk really is a joke.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 01-06-20, 03:29PM
By the way did not affect store in any way as all was done and fully staffed should say that to the staff that actually finish early ibstead of having their breaks dont see them getting a lets talk  maybe i should do the same oh i cant i get a lets talk
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: TheAnonymousWorker on 01-06-20, 05:57PM
Are we entitled to see any evidence against a colleague before a meeting, or see it during a meeting then allowed to step out to discuss?

Also, if a colleague has (not anonymously) reported another colleague, before final action can be taken, does the reporting colleagues identity have to be revealed?
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 01-06-20, 08:35PM
By the way did not affect store in any way as all was done and fully staffed should say that to the staff that actually finish early ibstead of having their breaks dont see them getting a lets talk  maybe i should do the same oh i cant i get a lets talk

Depending on the culture in your store, if on middle shifts the SM may allow autonomous flexibility, it's very much a case of, if others do it and aren't reprimanded, you can't be treated any differently. Again though, this is culture and context dependent.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 01-06-20, 11:14PM
Should be same rule for everyone to follow the rota i have always done it even doing late to early or doing double shifts thats ok im not breaking tesco rules i went in at 7 instead of 9 and its a crime really managers need to stop being bullies and focus on what is important then trying to bully people i have prove of false allegations and during my appeal another lie was spotted by the appeal manager so do i derseve to get s lets talk for breathing and to keep me in a room with anxiety is discrimmination i though adjustment passport is to support me in my work place see what tesco have to say
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Redshoes on 02-06-20, 07:15AM
So, as no overtime used you started two hours early so therefore finished two hours early. I understand why you said you did this but I don't understand why you think this might be acceptable. I am sure that many of us would like to do this and can find reasons that it would be a good thing.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 02-06-20, 09:25AM
Because i am being bullied and wanted to make sure before he come in all was ok why is it such a big issue no one understand what i am going through so no point in trying to explain its not much about the lets talk I've spoken to another manager and they agree it pathetic my main thing is i have anxiety and forced to stay in a room when clearly can see i was getting very anxious he did not follow the adjustment plan and caused me more stress no one should be bullied in the work place
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: penguin on 02-06-20, 10:18AM
It is a big issue because people cannot go around moving there shifts as they see fit, regardless of the reason why and as a shift leader you should be setting an example, and the example you set here was its ok to come in and go early, issues with anxiety are totally separate from this, the fact is you moved your shift without prior approval and have been given a lets talk and I know it will not be a popular view on here but the managers actions were totally correct on that one. Regarding anxiety I would agree you should be allowed to leave a room or meeting if your becoming distressed in order to take some time out but as harsh as it seems at some point or another the meeting will have to be concluded, be that in half an hours time, the following day or the following week, reasonable adjustments are one thing, simply refusing to take part in a meeting full stop is not a reasonable adjustment.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 02-06-20, 10:55AM
You dont have a clue  your just assuming end of discussion where does it state i refuse the meeting i needed time to breath also what happened to finding out the reason why i did because then maybe would understand but no not bothered about it managers think its fun to go round bullying people  unless you know dont assume
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Morris999 on 02-06-20, 11:26AM
Bubbles1234,
While everyone understands it’s a difficult, emotional and stressful time for you, you need to start separating all the issues you feel are happening.

The let’s talk for changing your shift without consulting anyone was perfectly justified, and no People partner will side with you on that and overturn it.

I will be honest it’s difficult to follow some of your posts without any grammar and punctuation in them, however that being said there seems to be certain issues you keep mentioning.

So you changing your shift without consulting anyone or getting permission.
Now you said the reason why you did it and that the store was all covered.
Now what if there was sickness/domestic for the hours that you were meant to be there, what if the shop then had to shut because you decided to move your hours, who do you think would get the let’s talk/investigation then?
You said your in an express store I believe, we all know how difficult they are and how difficult it is to get break cover, yet again you changed your shift, with no thought about your evening colleagues.
Luckily nothing bad happened in your store that evening however if it had, I can assure you a let’s talk would have been the least of your worries, and you would have been invited to an investigation, most likely followed by a disciplinary.

Other colleagues not taking breaks and going early, is this your old store or new?
Has this been agreed by their store manager?
Is it because there is no break cover?
Could be many different reasons for this, but without knowing full details, it’s difficult to say either way as the company recognise in express that break cover is an issue and has put policies/procedures in place to manage it.

There’s other things you’ve posted too, but I cannot tell if they are from your previous investigation/store or have happened since you moved to the new store.

Now you being forced to stay in the room against your will, unless you are being detained for suspected theft, while the police are on route, is a massive no no, and should never have happened.
That is the one thing that you can definitely put a complaint in for, and as you have a witness should easily win.

What you need to be careful of is throwing lots of different issues in the mix that either are not issues, your fault(regardless of intentions of fillings) and stick to the ones that you can prove, are against your support/adjustment plans, against company policy and employment law.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Welshie on 02-06-20, 01:53PM
Very well put Morris999 , I couldnt keep track of which store issues were in either .
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Redshoes on 03-06-20, 05:31AM
What is clear is that you are overwhelmed and stressed. You are making bad choices, could it be because of this? I have never worked in an express store but I hear that they are hard, being a shift leader is tough. To add to that being in conflict with your manager won't help. Not doing anything to add to all of this and give ammunition to your manager is vital. Don't change your shift without agreement, you need to remove as much of the conflict as possible.
If your manager is a bully that is unacceptable and needs to be stopped and manager investigated but if your manager is frustrated and cross because you have changed your shift without consultation it is a matter of if they have followed procedure.
Your role is stressful and hard. That is acknowledged, it will be harder if your store is not working as a team. Your manager has the right to manage the situation but they have to do it correctly. The same applies to you as shift leader and how you manage colleagues in the store. Being a bully is not allowed but letting someone know that they have not acted correctly is part of a managers job, how this is delivered can be harder where there is conflict. It should start with coaching but the message will have to become stronger if not listened to.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Katarn2000 on 03-06-20, 06:52AM
I feel like it's important to note someone isn't 'given' a let's talk. It's not a warning or anything it's merely a record of a conversation. They replaced the old informal discussion and it isn't the same thing. There is literally no punishment or disciplinary value to a let's talk, it's purely optional for the manager and doesn't affect what they can do with disciplinary meetings etc.

All that happened is that the manager asked you not to do that again and wrote it down. More than reasonable thing to do.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 03-06-20, 09:45AM
A " let's talk" is a back door route to a disciplinary...it depends on the manager and the reasons behind it. If a colleague is continually receiving a let's talk, regarding the same issues, then it becomes part, and can be referred to, in the disciplinary process. If it was so informal, why have one? Why can't a colleague refuse to attend one? The same for a colleague, who can ask for one with their manager, making it a more formal "informal" and should their issues not be resolved from several meetings regarding the same issue, would form part of their grievance.

@Bubbles 1234
Your anxiety is making the whole situation worse, due to the nature of you being constantly anxious, fretting about what the day ahead holds, your whole focus on what may or may not happen or be said to you.
I would imagine it's constantly turning over in your thoughts, which is causing a downward spiral of depression and mental health. Add to this, you probably can't give or get a simple hug of support from a colleague or friend, and the issues are hugely magnified.
Have you considered seeking a transfer to a different store format? A bigger store, where you are not so 1 on 1 with a manager. You may have to take a step down, to be a CA, but part of a bigger dept or team, where you're not so much in the firing line every day. The hourly rate is less, but taking into account tax and NI contributions are also less, along with the possible health benefits to you, would it not be an option  ???
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Solway on 03-06-20, 01:02PM
I’ve just received a final written warning for being bullied for the last year. No one was interested, manager liked the person doing the bullying. Finally after being chased at work by bully, I snapped. Shouted back. Now everything is my fault. Love the way tesco always twists things. Worse thing was I saw the final written warning typed out on the notes before the last meeting took place. Never had a meeting before, impeccable behaviour for 15 years. No justice
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: helpme on 03-06-20, 03:51PM
If the final written warning was already written out when you went into that meeting they have broken employment law, they have already found you guilty before even talking to you.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Solway on 03-06-20, 06:21PM
Thank you. Will appeal and use this information
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 03-06-20, 07:08PM
Was it noted anywhere that the final written was typed out ready before the meeting commenced e.g. You or your rep commented on seeing it, or took photographic evidence?
Was the letter dated before your final warning was given?

If not, you'll have a hard time proving it was. By all means put in a grievance, but do your homework beforehand. The notes will have a time of adjournment for decision, and a reconvened time. If this was minimal, then the chances of them discussing, making the decision and having the letter typed out could prove in your favour.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Katarn2000 on 03-06-20, 07:27PM
If the file is saved in the system which it probably is it would be a simple matter to see when the document was created.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 03-06-20, 08:17PM
I’ve just received a final written warning for being bullied for the last year. No one was interested, manager liked the person doing the bullying. Finally after being chased at work by bully, I snapped. Shouted back. Now everything is my fault. Love the way tesco always twists things. Worse thing was I saw the final written warning typed out on the notes before the last meeting took place. Never had a meeting before, impeccable behaviour for 15 years. No justice

If you've lodged grievances and complaints or there has been investigations to that effect with documentation and nothing was done, then they can't give you a final written warning, the good for goose good for gander principle applies, if his bullying entailed shouting or more egregious misconduct and it has been recorded, acknowledged and investigated and no warning was given, the same must apply to you.

Also, being chased at work sounds like you were scared for your own health and safety, if there was cctv images of this (and I would imagine there would be if they used cctv as evidence of you "shouting") then not only must you appeal this decision but also grievance the disciplining manager for not being impartial and excessive reprimanding, the Personnel manager will  then, if competent investigate, have the challenging conversations and succeed in performing a culture change, if not then the judge will take money from Tesco in a constructive unfair dismissal law suit and that will be that.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 07-06-20, 05:17PM
I have appealed waiting on outcome manager off for 4 weeks  so hopefully will be sorted by then  :thumbup: now tesco are supporting me now when did it change a shift leader can manage and performance manage another shift leader.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 07-06-20, 07:33PM
Shift leaders don't have the authority to formally performance manage, a Team Manager at the very least can start the SYP process and that is only after they've had the training.

A shift leader (in Express) can only give lets talks, after 3 lets talks on the same issue it must be passed to the SM for the appropriate action.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 07-06-20, 08:04PM
I thought so yes can do lets talk on colleagues not on another shift leader well its obvious the manager still at it tells me im not allowed to manage staff not my job then tells us another shift leader will manage and perfomance manage them hes still trying to get me even tho hes off  :'(
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 07-06-20, 08:46PM
Raise a grievance against the manager for dignity at work, even if the mateyboy manager told the shift leader to performance manage you, they're not allowed, make sure lets talks or the SYP plan adminstered by the Shift Leader is documented first, during the investigation, the shift leader will say he was told to do so by your manager, this will aid you in your grievances for dignity at work against your manager.

If there has been a grievance investigation and disciplinary meted out before for the same issue (breaches against dignity at work is serious misconduct) then the investigation manager (would be the people partner if the culprit is high up enough) will have to give a warning level higher than what was given before, even going as far as giving them the sack, as the investigation manager not only has to remain impartial, but protect the business from law suits.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 07-06-20, 09:21PM
Yeah i will address has i have to email people partner tomorrow to let her know my concerns thanks :thumbup:
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: penguin on 08-06-20, 01:28AM
I thought so yes can do lets talk on colleagues not on another shift leader well its obvious the manager still at it tells me im not allowed to manage staff not my job then tells us another shift leader will manage and perfomance manage them hes still trying to get me even tho hes off  :'(

No doubt this will not go down well, but anyone can use a lets talk with anyone regardless of job title and role within the company, a lets talk is simply a record of a conversation nothing more, the issue you need to focus on here is the shift leader being told to performance manage you as that one is totally unacceptable.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 08-06-20, 09:28AM
Lets talks can also be used as the starting point for disciplinary action in place of informal written warnings, i.e 3 lets talks on the same issue then it goes to written warning which only the store manager or team manager can do. Shift Leaders aren't able to do anything beyond lets talks.

Certainly the shift leader in question can't use it as a disciplinary device against you due to being at the same work level.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: penguin on 08-06-20, 06:21PM
You cannot go straight from lets talk on 3 times to written warning, before it goes to any form of warning it goes to investigation meeting, but a lets talk on the same issue more than once should suggest an underlying problem and a shift leader or manager should be looking at what can be done to resolve the issue rather than just expecting to write out another lets talk a month later.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 08-06-20, 07:16PM
After 3 lets talks on the same area of conduct/behaviour, they get invited to an investigation meeting with the SM, whereby they may get given a written warning depending on outcome and nature of misconduct.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: penguin on 08-06-20, 07:38PM
But the way your other post came across was that it goes straight from a 3rd lets talk on the same matter directly to a written warning from store manager, and that is as you have pointed out yourself not the case.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: alf on 08-06-20, 08:16PM
Imma gonna take a punt and say this 3 lets talk rule is totally made up.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 08-06-20, 09:08PM
But the way your other post came across was that it goes straight from a 3rd lets talk on the same matter directly to a written warning from store manager, and that is as you have pointed out yourself not the case.

All disciplinarys are preceded by an investigation for issues of conduct as that is the process, a written warning (as informal verbals have been replaced with lets ralks) is a likely outcome. The 3 lets talks rule is part of the disciplinary process for issues of repeat minor misconduct.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: alf on 08-06-20, 09:33PM
It's not though.

Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Katarn2000 on 08-06-20, 11:02PM
I don't know where poeple are getting this 3 let's talk thing from. It's total nonsense. There is no requirement whatsoever for these in the disciplinary process.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 09-06-20, 09:02AM
Whatsapp message from an SM about the 3 lets talks process.

"She plays that game all the time. Document what she has said formally about 1. Refusing to comply to a basic managerial request 2. Coments about not willing to complete tasks for the store manager and a shift leader. We need to address her attitude and performance accordingly to rectify this situation we have with her.

As I have said before in regards to let's talks after three on the same area of conduct and behaviour the individual will be invited to an investigation with myself. Please follow this process so we can look after our people in the right way.

Well done on getting hrr to work but be careful not to fall for her ploys."
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 09-06-20, 10:15AM
Ok what about if someone has never done it before does it go straight to a lets talk what about understanding why it was done and whasapp message saying her attitude what about the managers attitudes managers are the worst not all previous manager fantastic guy.since my occupatiencial referrel company now want to support me bit late for that damage is done
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Katarn2000 on 09-06-20, 11:00AM
Whatsapp message from an SM about the 3 lets talks process.

"She plays that game all the time. Document what she has said formally about 1. Refusing to comply to a basic managerial request 2. Coments about not willing to complete tasks for the store manager and a shift leader. We need to address her attitude and performance accordingly to rectify this situation we have with her.

As I have said before in regards to let's talks after three on the same area of conduct and behaviour the individual will be invited to an investigation with myself. Please follow this process so we can look after our people in the right way.

Well done on getting hrr to work but be careful not to fall for her ploys."

Looks like that manager has put in extra steps to be overly cautious on top of the process. That isn't Tesco policy for discipline issues. They've added their own process. What a surprise - a store manager making policy up as they go along.

Let's talk it's not part of the disciplinary process. It didn't replace informal verbals or the informal discussion. If that's how it's being used it's being abused. These managers need retraining. Typical lazy management using everything as a blunt instrument to try and force compliance with their wishes.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: alf on 09-06-20, 11:54AM
The "policy" is from a WhatsApp message.. Jesus christ... 
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 09-06-20, 03:53PM
Whatsapp message from an SM about the 3 lets talks process.

"She plays that game all the time. Document what she has said formally about 1. Refusing to comply to a basic managerial request 2. Coments about not willing to complete tasks for the store manager and a shift leader. We need to address her attitude and performance accordingly to rectify this situation we have with her.

As I have said before in regards to let's talks after three on the same area of conduct and behaviour the individual will be invited to an investigation with myself. Please follow this process so we can look after our people in the right way.

Well done on getting hrr to work but be careful not to fall for her ploys."

Looks like that manager has put in extra steps to be overly cautious on top of the process. That isn't Tesco policy for discipline issues. They've added their own process. What a surprise - a store manager making policy up as they go along.

Let's talk it's not part of the disciplinary process. It didn't replace informal verbals or the informal discussion. If that's how it's being used it's being abused. These managers need retraining. Typical lazy management using everything as a blunt instrument to try and force compliance with their wishes.

I thought SMs were the right honourable arbiters of Tesco law, aren't they sworn in upon promotion that they will uphold the sacred text of OurTesco?
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: penguin on 09-06-20, 04:40PM
The "policy" is from a WhatsApp message.. Jesus christ... 

That is an improvement, usually the managers just seem to pluck policy out of thin air.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: alf on 09-06-20, 04:57PM
Wouldn't be surprised, personally that's why I think ourtesco (colleague help now) is the best thing tesco ever did when it comes to this type or stuff, I can quickly  fact check any fibs that may be told.

“you have to work boxing day“  for example.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 09-06-20, 05:36PM
 8-) or "you have to do either Boxing Day, or New Year's Day to make it fair on the dept..work it out between you"  :D
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: penguin on 09-06-20, 06:54PM
Not forgetting the other classic, "you must work either Good Friday or Easter Monday", says what policy exactly.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 09-06-20, 07:05PM
My question is why do they believe everything managers say what about our voices and there are managers out there that need some serious training Tesco need to sort it  and support the colleagues
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: penguin on 09-06-20, 07:37PM
Most managers are truthful and actually do the best in a job that is not as easy as some on here like to assume it is, yes it goes without saying some really are awful and need far more than retraining but you will find the same issue in any organisation where you have people with different levels of authority.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 09-06-20, 09:57PM
Not sure I agree with the sentiment that retraining is the panacea for all managerial misconduct, some were never fit to hold the position in the first place, though going down that road would impose uncomfortable questions surrounding who it was that deemed them suitable in the first place as well as put the spotlight on their executive functioning (judgement and decision making).
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 10-06-20, 08:26AM
The whole TRAINING of Tesco personnel went out of the window years ago.

When I started there was a TRAINING room and a TRAINING manager. New checkout operators were sat on a closed checkout for a couple of days with a TRAINING manual and the checkout was put into TRAINING mode for them to operate. Every department had TRAINING timescales, where they were buddied to shadow and learn.

Options colleagues, were constantly monitored, given TRAINING scenarios I.e. Group debates and problem solving with CA's, one or two CA's, with strong characters, were encouraged by the PM beforehand, to be awkward and disagreeable to see how the Options candidate dealt with managing the debate! They worked on each department, learning the ropes. When they were signed off, they went to another store for three months or more, to gain the experience of management. Managers were periodically moved onto different dept's to learn the procedures and were encouraged to ask the long serving CA's for help and advice if unsure of procedures.

Now there's "PRE" options candidates who are given a striped shirt, the duty 'phone, 12 hour shifts and told to get on with it as its " good for their development". If they ever do eventually get signed off, they go straight back on their own department, amongst their own team, to manage their old mates and the ones they've never got on with!!

Years ago, Tesco managers were headhunted by other companies, regarded highly due to their intense TRAINING  :-X
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 19-06-20, 10:16AM
I appealed and won.Managers need serious training on how to do investigation and graduate managers need proper training on disciplinaries  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Redshoes on 19-06-20, 10:27AM
I agree, the training did used to be different. The time scales are still in place however. It is now all online, can't be fudged. I know of two managers who have been sacked for signing off training that has not been completed, this was years ago but it did happen. Now you do it online and it's done with your own sign in. We all know of people who struggle to get signed on and hate doing it like this but it is you that is doing the training and it's all monitored.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 19-06-20, 02:10PM
They can't monitor the fact the manager is sitting in the room, hurrying them along with giving the correct answers...some still doing it on CA's behalf as a "favour", as another well used trick is to get the CA to go online, towards the end of their shift, obviously with not enough time to complete and they finish it for them, rather than have their department interrupted during a shift with the CA's doing training  :-X
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 19-06-20, 02:13PM
I appealed and won.Managers need serious training on how to do investigation and graduate managers need proper training on disciplinaries  :thumbup:

Well done...now onwards and upwards  ;)
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Nomad on 19-06-20, 02:19PM
I appealed and won.  Managers need serious training on how to do investigation, and graduate managers need proper training on disciplinaries  :thumbup:

Top notch.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 19-06-20, 03:14PM
Thank you all for listening and all the advice been a great help :)
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bean23 on 21-06-20, 11:15PM
Ask for a copy of any notes taken and remember you need to read through and sign them that way you can highlight anything wrong but also ask them to document anything you disagree about. 
However any colleague can sit in with you they can't answer for you hopefully evidence is one offence and not a lot more as theft is taken very seriously. Every point is 1p treble of using partner sites
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Veryhelpful2020 on 22-06-20, 09:25AM
I turned up to an investigation meeting last week and was told the wrong date and time were on my letter.  ???

Am I right in saying I’ll have to get another letter with notice in it?
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 22-06-20, 10:23AM
Correct  8-)
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Veryhelpful2020 on 22-06-20, 12:48PM
Fab. Thanks. I’m fully expecting to be told on my next shift that it’s happening today.

Just wanted to be prepared for a challenge.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 22-06-20, 01:33PM
They have to give at least 24 hour written notification, this is to enable you to arrange representation, or re arrange for when you can secure a rep or colleague to accompany you.

Remember the golden rule....if there's two of them, should also be two of you.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Veryhelpful2020 on 22-06-20, 01:41PM
Thanks lucgeo,

When I was told on Thursday that there was an error in my letter, I expected the correct information be put on a new letter there and then but that never materialised.

I understand (but not been told) that it will probably be on my next shift so having this information, I can tell them that I Haven’t had the required written notice in order to get representation.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 02-07-20, 01:44AM
Hi I got a email from people partner to return to my store she arranged a meeting with my manager and another manager to  sit in she said my manager was going to apolgise regarding for not doing a thorough check and putting me through stress and anxiety yesterdsy had meeting and got no apology everything in the email he did not do. I have a ajustment passport which states if im in an uncomfortble place or situation i get very anxious. In my store there are a couple of staff that course me alot of problems which i have mentioned to my manager on a number of accasions So Told my manager at the moment I will not feel comfortable to do lates at the moment.I dont mind lates as have been lates in the store Im in at the moment.hes answer was I dont work like that problem is he dont deal with the staff he says nothing to them can he force me to do something that im not comfortable with which states in my passport hes body language said it all dont know what to do im worried my anxiety will build up again im in a better place now.sorry for going on thanks
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: oldfashionedplayer on 02-07-20, 02:06AM
So you don't feel comfortable working lates due to other colleagues you are in contact with on that shift are causing you problems? Or because they have done in the past?  (hope I'm correct ton reading that), if so, then if you've mentioned this to your manager then they should ideally making a note of it for record, aim to speak to the colleagues involved and aim to work on the problems or possibly go further into investigation if it's something such as bullying and harassment.

Ideally they could also temporarily move you on your shift away from the ones involved at the time, but it's possible they would be able to say they will look into it and ask if it's fine to continue your current shifts with them or discuss possible temporary measures, rather than the force that you are saying, if they are indeed aiming to force then I'd recommend speaking to another manager regarding it and wanting it in writing or using the protector line if your uncomfortable, you could also however call in and ask to speak to someone regarding it as you feel unsafe and go from there but you shouldn't be being "forced", they can however ask...
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 02-07-20, 07:06AM
Did the email include the written words that the manager had caused you stress and anxiety and was to apologise to you for it?
Did it acknowledge that you had been treated unfairly by the manager?
Were notes taken in the meeting? If so were you given a copy?
Did both managers speak or just the one?
Did you have a rep or colleague accompany you in the meeting?
Were you given sufficient notice to attend the meeting, to prepare?
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 02-07-20, 08:52AM
Hi the meeting was to clear the air so I can go back to my store yes the email states the manager is aware he caused you unnessasary  stress and anxiety and to give him a chance to put it right with an apology  and there was no apology  he knows about the staff but will not deal will it he said I need to document it down which I have done before.he said  its not hes job to manage the staff or shop that is why we have shift leaders.my colleague is having issues with the same staff  and nothing all im asking is for support on my return
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 02-07-20, 09:00AM
Thinking further on this...
Was there a timescale of you working in the alternative store, where you are currently placed.
Have they offered you an alternative dept for you to return to your contracted store, or are they sending you back to the same dept and under the same manager, whom you won your grievance against?
The fact that you are working the lates in your temporary store, shows in your favour, and adds credibility to your reluctance to work lates on your return due to the anticipated bad atmosphere!
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 02-07-20, 09:49AM
I work in express store, the store I'm in now I have been there nearly 4 months there are no vacancies in the area at the moment so they want me to go back to my store as I'm a valued member there.

But after the meeting yesterday I know its not going to be healthy.  He asked if I had any concerns I told him nothing, not sure who to turn to.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 03-07-20, 10:14AM
I would have thought the PM should have conducted the meeting between yourself and this manager? Was the other manager in the meeting between you both a senior manager?

Keep all correspondence concerning this...especially the email from the PM stating the recognition of stress and anxiety caused by this manager.

Contact the PM again...keeping copies. State your concerns, especially as the meeting was not conducted in the way you were led to believe it would,  no apology was forthcoming, and statement the manager made, that it is not his job to manage the staff or the shop, that is the shift leaders job, you find confusing and request clarification, as one of his past " let's talk" meetings was to inform you that as a shift leader, you did not have the authority to take someone off a checkout??

Did you get copies of the notes from the meeting?
Did you have a witness or rep at this meeting?

Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 03-07-20, 12:05PM
Documentation is important, as the agenda was outlined by the PM, remedial steps such as getting the manager to apologise for misconduct and to improve treatment towards you is of paramount importance to be documented, this is so if further misconduct of the same nature from the same manager occurs again, you can repeat the process and the onus will be on the HR team to balance needs of the business with protection against lawsuits, you have to remember, the more documentation about misconduct, especially about dignity at work, victimisation and harrassment there is, the more objectively justified your claim for constructive dismissal or other lawsuits pertaining to victimisation, discrimination etc will be.

HR being the lowest level of business function in a corporation won't be the ones doing a legal repurcussion analysis, that will be General Counsel (the legal team) who "advise" (read instruct) the course of action the PM must take, this nips any protectionist activities in the bud.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 03-07-20, 12:13PM
Meeting i had on wednesday was not s senior manager sitting in was just another manager from another store notes were not taken I have all my notes from previous meetings kept them all I have emailed the PM she said any concerns speak to your line manager.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 03-07-20, 12:46PM
Did you have a rep?
Did the rep or you take notes of the meeting?
Were you offered a rep sitting in?
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 03-07-20, 12:59PM
In this meeting no i was not offered to have rep sit in PM sent me email saying she was arranging a meeting with my manager and another was going to be there she stated manager should of done a thorough check and that he was aware it caused me anxiety and stress and that to give him a chance to put it right and hopefully with the apology can move forward when i had the meeting he did nothing so he did not follow the email the manager sitting in did not speak at all
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NightAndDay on 03-07-20, 01:55PM
Sounds like a stitch up, if you are privy to tbe email or have a carbon copy, then that will be self evident as documentation. Just remember the manager is in a sticky situation as he would be ill advised (if the personnel manager is at least quasi-competent, most of them are uneducated fairy godmother types in my opinion who've been with the company over 20 years) to "manage you out of the business" by bullying etc as the documentation will be sufficient for the ET judge to pass judgement in your favour. With this in mind, as long as you don't do anything justifiable for disciplinary, keep your nose clean and adhere to KPIs and exceptions mandated by your adjustment passport, you just have to wait for the mateyboy manager to be hoisted by his own petard, when he does so, grievance mentioning legal action and insist on having the "challenging conversations" with the personnel manager about a more constructive solution.

Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 03-07-20, 02:01PM
I just recieved a letter from my manager regarding meeting I had no mention he gave me an apology etc just said concerns i raised and nothing will speak to union on monday I will keep my head down.I have a diary to record everything.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 08-07-20, 11:07PM
Hi  I have returned to my store after 3 months  :( can i ask what is a managers role he said he will not communicate with the staff not his job dont expect me to be down stairs not my job People partner told me any concerns to go to my manager first which I havd done and hes not intrested I raised my concerns regarding a couple of staff and at the moment dont feel comfortable working with them hes answer was if you cant we need to look at your job role when every store in my area all shift leaders do whatever I know its 2 earlies 2 lates and a mid im not saying no just support me my other colleague has the same problems with the same staff she tells him and he speaks to them me i have to document it so can be investigated today I saw a box hidden behind monitor in office hidden camera or voice recorder not sure has there is a camera there already.he closes the door and watches the camera he said we are not allowed on it.  He gets the baker to bake alot so enough on shelf for 3 days today he  said hes the king there.if I go to people partner she wont listen even to the point shift leaders not allowed in office only to collect pda or confirm gap thats it he has also sels on filing cabnets why clearly has no trust.who else can i go to. :'(
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Welshie on 08-07-20, 11:57PM
Bubbles , if you're having g so many issues with your own job then why add to your stress worrying about what the manager is getting the Baker to do ? I genuinely dont mean to sound harsh but the manager is responsible for waste not you , if Baker does 3 days worth , whatever . Pick your battles , if I were people partner , I wouldn't listen , I'd be wondering why when you've had so many issues of your own that you're bothered about the bakery . It sounds like you checking everything that this manager does and are running to the people partner .
For your own stress levels , try to go in , do your own job to the best of your ability  , document any issues of bullying against you if any occur and then go home . I understand sometimes it's hard when other people get away with everything and you seem to be pulled up on the slightest thing but for your own mental health just concentrate on yourself .
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 09-07-20, 12:27AM
No i am not  i did not want to go back work there and you will understand so dont judge  and assume we dont go to work to be treated like in the military how can i do my job when  wont let us do anything i have always believed working in a team and n9t to be treated like s*** i go in do my job its not good when you dread going in  you call that normal for a manager to do well 27 years in retail I can honestly say tesco managers are the worse I was bullied before and they expect me to stand up in tribunal and support them no chance not about baking i dont care nust an example his loss issues i had before again managers i was proven not guilty and tesco still not helping a complete joke 
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Welshie on 09-07-20, 12:57AM
Bubbles I'm not judging you , I'm just saying , pick your battles . Let the things that don't directly effect you go ie;bakery . I've been where you are (not in tesco) and it can overwhelm you , you start to notice everything that is wrong and then when you have the chance to voice it to someone that can help (peoples manager) the issues all get intertwined and they stop listening . Concentrate on the issues that directly affect you , that you can document and when you have 1 month or 2 months worth of solid evidence you can go out of store or above mangers head ..  if it looks like you're checking up on the managers every move then they will just dismiss it as a personality clash or will just take managers side . It must be evidence of things that directly effect you .
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 09-07-20, 06:33PM
Sorry welshie waa not having a go at you  :(
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 16-07-20, 08:17AM
Hi  since being back in my store not been great manager has blocked me on facebook so not on any groups he said was going to be alternative sunday working no sundays given it  to step up he said said its his job to view cctv on staff perfomances which i know is wrong also putting pressure on me not other shift leaders am i being sinlged out
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: lucgeo on 16-07-20, 08:40AM
Yes, if you can prove the above statements.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Bubbles1234 on 16-07-20, 09:27AM
Yes i can i have taken pic of rota screen shot of whasapp also they can just check cctv manager in office strange yesterday office door  not shut after i said not allowed to do that he said got problem with whasapp clearly not has all still on groups also my colleague said he put message up on group regarding papers being submitted late not me and asked the step up to find out whi did it when i was running shift not sure what to do has no one is listening
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: NavyNinja on 17-07-20, 12:00AM
Sorry if this is a little off topic but a colleague of mine (who also happens to be a friend) has been kept on after the Covid-19 recruitment binge and is on checkouts. They've stuck him down on Self Serve twice in the last two weeks in the evening by himself and told him to Till Check the tills. Not even I know how to do that. He presumed it's the Till Declaration when you turn the machines off and back on again like when they're being emptied. Our manager is off sheilding due to age so we've got the guy off the counters and he says that's not right and if it's not done properly next week he'll be disciplined. Is the Self Serve till check the till declaration or not? He needs to know and is worried about being got rid of.  Thanks in advance all.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Redshoes on 17-07-20, 03:41AM
It's not his responsibility and can't be punished for something he is not trained to do and is not part of his job role.
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Batmanjo on 18-07-20, 07:57PM
Sorry if this is a little off topic but a colleague of mine (who also happens to be a friend) has been kept on after the Covid-19 recruitment binge and is on checkouts. They've stuck him down on Self Serve twice in the last two weeks in the evening by himself and told him to Till Check the tills. Not even I know how to do that. He presumed it's the Till Declaration when you turn the machines off and back on again like when they're being emptied. Our manager is off sheilding due to age so we've got the guy off the counters and he says that's not right and if it's not done properly next week he'll be disciplined. Is the Self Serve till check the till declaration or not? He needs to know and is worried about being got rid of.  Thanks in advance all.


It seems like management don't have a clue and some are like angry bears taking their failings out on staff they think they can abuse.One would believe he has had adequate training if he is on the self service checkouts ? If not he may be entitled to a tea break otherwise known as a disciplinary so as he can go over his training or lack of.     
Title: Re: Disciplinary Meeting
Post by: Redshoes on 19-07-20, 10:17AM
Don't worry about it.  it does not fall under your friend to do this and he has not been trained. I suggest your friend just asks team support if the closed down is ok, might be a good idea to say "As I'm new to this and I have not been fully trained I'm wondering if the close down I'm doing is ok or if there is something I should be doing differently".