verylittlehelps

Very Little Helps => Dot Com => Topic started by: dfl on 22-11-19, 08:41PM

Title: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 22-11-19, 08:41PM
Have a driver colleague who works 1800-2200 having to work for 2 hours only per shift, as no other shift suits due to commitments on xmas and new years eve and store shutting at 2000, not collegues fault this is happening as has asked for holidays or unpaid instead and management arent allowing it. Question :- if contracted 1800 - 2200 but through no fault of own gets sent home at 2000 would tesco have to pay the full 4 hours per shift instead of docking 2 hours per shift.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: Welshie on 22-11-19, 09:50PM
Wouldn't think so as they have given your colleague the option to work hours at a different time .  Its unusual for a store big enough to have a dotcom not to have staff in packing out until 11pm on xmas eve  , could your colleague not finish their shift packing out ??
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: Mr ford on 23-11-19, 07:21AM
If he don't like it. Tell them to find employment elsewhere. 
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: lucgeo on 23-11-19, 07:30AM
 8-) helpful not! Pointless reply :-X

As the store is closed, for half of their shift, and alternative hours are unsuitable due to commitments, then your colleague should be given the choice to take as holiday, unpaid, or pay the time back...they shouldn't be asking him to work less than three hours on a stand alone shift, regardless of the fact he is unable to tweak his shift to accommodate. Is he really so important to the store that they need him in for two hours, and to disregard policy?
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 25-11-19, 05:51PM
Thank you lucgeo, this is the point other shift have been offered which aren't suitable, the employee did offer to cover one which was but the manager turned it down (go figure), think manager is being a  gland
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 25-11-19, 05:56PM
Also do you know where in policy's it says minimum 3hr shift and also that unpaid should be allowed.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: lucgeo on 25-11-19, 06:35PM
Is the colleague a non Union member?? A rep would have that information, or they could 'phone the Tesco helpline or USDAW area office number for clarification. I no longer have access to the policies online, perhaps another poster could provide a link?

It has always been in the partnership agreement that no stand alone shift should be less than three hours, and the fact that he has offered to do an available shift, which has been refused, proves in his favour that the manager is acting unreasonably.

Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 25-11-19, 07:58PM
Non union
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: lucgeo on 26-11-19, 06:33AM
Well there's nothing wrong with him asking the rep, or phoning up for clarification of the policy agreement, or ask where it can be found in the online policies, for printing off?  It's not a union only policy, so there is no reason as to why they shouldn't clarify.

As for the manager, I would ask for a lets talk, and produce the policy, or state that the union have clarified the policy, so will therefore be unavailable for that shift, but is still available for the shift that was refused. Therefore, he will take as paid holiday, as to deliberately refuse an offer of alternative shift, resulting in loss of income and therefore is suffering a detriment.

No joy 8-) grievance, based on the above.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 26-11-19, 08:15AM
Guy was a union member but honestly in my experience of the union the advice on here is much better, thinking of coming out the union myself
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: lucgeo on 26-11-19, 09:53AM
Then there's nothing wrong in you asking your rep for clarification, or phoning USDAW area office to make the enquiry as a union member.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: genome on 26-11-19, 07:16PM
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: lucgeo on 27-11-19, 06:47AM
 ??? What date is that policy  ??? Has it been revised  ??? Thank you for providing it, I am truly shocked, it has always been 3 hours stand alone, I was quoting it myself last Christmas when a fellow flexi contract colleague was asked to come in, and I wasn't challenged  ???
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: Welshie on 27-11-19, 07:56AM
Lucego, I think you could be correct with the 3hr thing for a contracted shift, no contracted shift should be less than 3hrs.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: 80377494 on 27-11-19, 01:52PM
lucgeo, its from May 2019.
These are the next 2 paragraphs.

Our minimum contract at Tesco is 7.5 hours per week, and no less than 2 hours on any contracted day. Where colleagues are on a flexible contract, the minimum core hours would never be lower than 7.5 hours per week, with any additional hours worked within your agreed availability window.
Flexible contract colleagues would never be asked to work fewer than 3 hours in any one shift (the total of core and any additional hours), nor would they have a standalone availability window of fewer than three hours.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 27-11-19, 05:15PM
So it refers to contracted shift being no less than 2 hrs, this colleagues contract is for 4 hrs per shift but is effectively being cut short to 2hrs due to store closure, this means the 2hr shift left over is not "a contracted shift" as the employees contracted shift is for 4, also begs the question if Tesco should be paying the employee for the full 4 hours per shift as they are being sent home through no fault of their own after 2 hrs ?
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: genome on 27-11-19, 06:36PM
??? What date is that policy  ??? Has it been revised  ??? Thank you for providing it, I am truly shocked, it has always been 3 hours stand alone, I was quoting it myself last Christmas when a fellow flexi contract colleague was asked to come in, and I wasn't challenged  ???

checked the change log and it was added (not changed) october 2018.

October 2018
[...]
Minimum 7.5 hour weekly contract, preferably over 2 or more days and 2 hour minimum daily contract added

Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 27-11-19, 09:52PM
But in this case I'd think it's more a case of it is already a 4 hour contract per shift but the employee is only being permitted to work 2 as shop closes, would that still mean due to be paid the 4 hours. The plot thickens
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: lucgeo on 28-11-19, 07:24AM
lucgeo, its from May 2019.
These are the next 2 paragraphs.

Our minimum contract at Tesco is 7.5 hours per week, and no less than 2 hours on any contracted day. Where colleagues are on a flexible contract, the minimum core hours would never be lower than 7.5 hours per week, with any additional hours worked within your agreed availability window.
Flexible contract colleagues would never be asked to work fewer than 3 hours in any one shift (the total of core and any additional hours), nor would they have a standalone availability window of fewer than three hours.

Thanks for that...is it me?? Does the second paragraph not contradict the first??

@DFL. I would have your colleague print off the second paragraph and take it to your SM, stating that he feels the manager is being deliberately unreasonable, explaining his offer to work, but an available suitable shift was denied him by this manager, which results in FORCING him to lose payment of a full shift over the two days.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 28-11-19, 08:44AM
Lucgeo, cheers I will speak to my friend, I think your view is sound
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 28-11-19, 08:47AM
Also meant to say, the employee isn't on a flexible contract in this case, is contracted on the 1800-2200 hrs, so has been very fair with offering to cover a shift outside of it even if it was only one, but to get the offer turned down by the manager
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 09-12-19, 08:10AM
lucgeo, its from May 2019.
These are the next 2 paragraphs.

Our minimum contract at Tesco is 7.5 hours per week, and no less than 2 hours on any contracted day. Where colleagues are on a flexible contract, the minimum core hours would never be lower than 7.5 hours per week, with any additional hours worked within your agreed availability window.
Flexible contract colleagues would never be asked to work fewer than 3 hours in any one shift (the total of core and any additional hours), nor would they have a standalone availability window of fewer than three hours.

Thanks for that...is it me?? Does the second paragraph not contradict the first??

@DFL. I would have your colleague print off the second paragraph and take it to your SM, stating that he feels the manager is being deliberately unreasonable, explaining his offer to work, but an available suitable shift was denied him by this manager, which results in FORCING him to lose payment of a full shift over the two days.
info given to s.m. and it has been ignored, no communication at all returned, wonder if employee could have small claims for unpaid wages as contracted to 4 hrs but will only get 2 per shift at best
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: Redshoes on 09-12-19, 08:20AM
Manager has to justify where hours go. The moving hours at Christmas has to be a two way thing. The manager needs not to be stubborn and doctoral (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=doctoral) about it but if alternative hours offered by colleague are not needed there has to be a compromise on both sides and should have been resolved long ago.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 09-12-19, 02:44PM
Agreed but employee had already offered another shift which was needing covered and the manager refused it, so really surely employee having made themselves available to the employer for the 4 hrs per shift and then being made to go home is legally entitled to be paid in full
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: lucgeo on 09-12-19, 07:14PM
It is illegal to withhold payment...which is happening here.

Colleague offered to work available alternative shift
Manager refused
Colleague sought assistance of the SM...stating loss of income and unreasonable refusal
SM has not followed up

Colleague now needs to ask the SM for an update.
No update, no response??
Grievance the store for refusing a reasonable request, and their intent to withhold contracted shift payment.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 09-12-19, 08:26PM
I'm so shocked at their behaviour, I reckon if it comes to it and employee finds wages short after being sent home it may be acas who will get contacted. Be interesting to know if the employee gets instructed to clock out when the store closes on those evenings
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 14-12-19, 04:29PM
Employee has a meeting after putting in grievance, I'm expecting the am to deny any of the previous discussions or meetings ever happened as the colleague/managers didn't minute it.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: lucgeo on 14-12-19, 06:22PM
Well he must have had a discussion with someone, as half his shift is when the store is closed, so a Christmas working arrangement meeting should have been done, so why wouldn't he be on the rota for those shifts?

If there is a rota up written? Take a photo of it before it disappears, does it put him in on two short shifts??

Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 15-12-19, 08:00AM
Well he must have had a discussion with someone, as half his shift is when the store is closed, so a Christmas working arrangement meeting should have been done, so why wouldn't he be on the rota for those shifts?

If there is a rota up written? Take a photo of it before it disappears, does it put him in on two short shifts??


yes the seasonal working arrangement the employee showed me does put them on 2 short shifts so yes that's proof that at least that happened, another good thing it's signed by both the manager and the employee on the same date as the employee says they had a meeting to discuss the issues
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: lucgeo on 15-12-19, 09:47PM
So is the other shift he offered to work, but was denied, still available? Or was someone else allocated it?

If still available, he should have been offered it long ago, and it's proven the manager is being an arse! If it was given to another colleague, that colleague should have the seasonal working arrangement dated and signed also, so if the agreement is dated later, then further proof supporting his grievance.

He needs to keep his cards close to his chest...let the meeting commence...let the notes be started...then if any denial of meetings by managers on said dates, prove them wrong with signed, dated agreements.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 15-12-19, 10:14PM
Employee tells me at the time the offer was made to cover the shift for the manager it was still available and this was on the same date and time as the discussion meeting in which the seasonal working arrangements form was signed. Employee at that time was only about 80% sure store would close 2 hours into their shift. The required cover for other shift was offered by the employee and but then covered after that as far as the employee knows at least as during the above meeting the manager didn't say it was covered.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 15-12-19, 10:17PM
Also likely the aforementioned required shift would have just been covered as standard overtime and not likely to be on a seasonal working arrangements form as it was a shift which was required for November
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: lucgeo on 15-12-19, 10:23PM
Then he needs to wait for a denial of initial meeting from manager...then prove the date of discussion and signed agreement...then state refusal to his offer of covering other shift...all written in notes...once denial proved wrongly, all following denials from manager become less believable, the onus moves onto the manager to prove.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 15-12-19, 10:47PM
Apparently this upcoming meeting was announced by letter 15 minutes before end of employees shift and date for it is first thing on employees next shift (2 days later) so I believe although rules say 24 hrs notice iirc seems unlikely employee would have time to organise it as per meeting invite letter suggests. Has found someone who is willing to go but will bet this gets refused at start of meeting, if it does I will let employee know to just end the meeting immediately on grounds that a rep/colleague was refused
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: lucgeo on 16-12-19, 07:19AM
On what grounds would they refuse  8-)

Again, wait for note taker to start logging meeting, if no offer of rep question it? If refusal, adjourn meeting, sign notes up to adjournment, ensuring all comments noted and any space between end of written notes and signatures, has a large snaked line to block any comments added after the meeting.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: Redshoes on 16-12-19, 07:31AM
The company does not require someone to have a full shift or any stated given time during a shift to arrange a rep. They just need to give enough notice for meeting to take place. As employee has had time to arrange for someone to go in with them there is not an issue. Meetings should take place during a normal contracted shift unless a different time has been requested by colleague.
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: dfl on 16-12-19, 08:48AM
Global Moderator Comment Please do not quote immediately prior post.

Only had time to find s colleague willing to attend, didn't have time to do any more in regard to asking the colleague's manager to allow it
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: lucgeo on 16-12-19, 12:21PM
They can't refuse the request, if the named colleague is in agreement to attend the meeting...they could only postpone it, if the colleague is unavailable due to unforeseen emergency( not a checkout call!) needs of the business.
A reminder that the colleague holds the same status as a rep, whilst in the meeting, so any inference that they cannot speak or ask questions, as they are only there to take notes, is TOTAL BS!!
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: Cleaner1 on 16-12-19, 01:01PM
Title: Re: Short shifts
Post by: lucgeo on 16-12-19, 01:30PM
You probably won't have a problem if it's a Saturday night shift your wanting to do...though not every SM is keen on someone working elsewhere as it restricts their availability, it all stems down to available hours and staff cover on the night you want to work.