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Skills payment/Overpayment

Started by 13yearsaslave, 02-03-23, 05:38PM

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13yearsaslave

Hi all. This week some of us dotcom drivers were given a letter advising us that an overpayment will be clawed back in this week's pay. First though we had to sign to agree. This didn't happen as agreed. I signed, but more was taken. Another driver didn't sign, money still taken. Another driver signed, double taken. Anyone else experienced anything? Any thoughts?

Hammer10

I am a baker did not sign any thing they still took it.Their c**k up they should just accept it.

londoner83

It's a long standing legal principle that if you receive wages you are not entitled to your employer can recover them from you.

13yearsaslave

#3
Yes, but only the amount that was overpaid. We have six drivers who have had more taken than was overpaid. And we were asked to sign to agree the amount to be paid back in this pay. Some drivers didn't sign but monies were taken.

Nomad

#4
Quote from: londoner83 on 02-03-23, 08:20PMIt's a long standing legal principle that if you receive wages you are not entitled to your employer can recover them from you.

They have to make an arrangement with you how it is to be repaid, as their is the possibility of the resulting shortfall in wages causing you financial problems.  If it such financial problems result in you being out of pocket, overdraft charges etc, you can claim those charges back from the company.

I also believe that if you have spent the over payment AND can demonstrate it was reasonable for you to believe the monies were paid correctly, they cannot claim it back if you've spent it,

If you can't pay your employer back in one go

QuoteIf you do owe the money, check what your contract says about how you need to pay your employer back. They're not allowed to take money out of your pay unless your contract says they can, even if you do owe it.

If your employer is allowed to take the money from your pay but this would cause you financial problems, speak to them as soon as possible. Explain why you can't afford to pay so much in one go and offer to pay the money in instalments.

Where your employer doesn't have an agreement with you to take money from your pay, you'll need to speak to them to make an arrangement to pay. Ask if you can pay it back in instalments.

realemploymentlawadvice.co.uk: Can my employer make me pay back overpaid wages?

QuoteUnlawful deduction from wages

The Employment Rights Act sets out that it is unlawful for an employer to make a deduction from an employee's wages unless the deduction is authorised by law, there is a provision in the contract (as mentioned above) or the employee has provided written consent.

Going one step further, employers have an additional benefit in that they are exempt from this rule where the deduction from wages is for the purpose of reclaiming an overpayment of wages or expenses.
Nomad ( Forum Admin )
It's better to be up in arms than down on your knees.

FuriousAnger

So I've been on holiday this week but was informed by other drivers in a group chat that they were handed a letter on Monday 27th Feb regarding the overpayment. Each letter was individual to the driver and each letter had different sums to pay back.
The best bit is how the letter starts.
Firstly it was dated the 24th of Feb so the Friday before but no drivers were handed letter until the following Monday.
Secondly the letter states as follows
"RE: OVERPAYMENT

Thank you for attending the meeting today where we discussed the overpayment linked to your skills payment.
This issue has now been corrected and we apologise for any inconvenience this may cause"

Then goes on to say, "in line with our pay policy as you have been overpaid and the amount is less than 25% of your four weekly pay the full amount will be recovered from your pay on Friday the 3rd of march."

Then stated amount. As drivers the amounts ranged from £8 all the way to £73.

Firstly no meeting was ever had or arranged or we were informed about. As the letter is dated the 24th the "meeting shouldve happened some time before the 24th Feb. So they've lied in the letters we've been given.
Secondly at no point at our store has anyone explained still, why and how this has happened.
Thirdly a grievance will be going straight into the management at my store on Sunday due to the poor way it has been handled and also the fact no one knows why it's happened and also with less than a weeks notice 🙄 .

Has anyone else experienced any of this

Hammer10

#6
Apparently there were 11,000 employees affected. I agree about the poor way it was handled in the old days when we had personnel managers we would have been taken into an office and spoken to our manager just casually came into our bakery and just told those of us in the dept that were affected and said we would be getting a letter.  No wonder this company is losing respect from the workers they don't give a flying fig about anyone.

13yearsaslave

Quote from: FuriousAnger on 03-03-23, 08:20PMSo I've been on holiday this week but was informed by other drivers in a group chat that they were handed a letter on Monday 27th Feb regarding the overpayment. Each letter was individual to the driver and each letter had different sums to pay back.
The best bit is how the letter starts.
Firstly it was dated the 24th of Feb so the Friday before but no drivers were handed letter until the following Monday.
Secondly the letter states as follows
"RE: OVERPAYMENT

Thank you for attending the meeting today where we discussed the overpayment linked to your skills payment.
This issue has now been corrected and we apologise for any inconvenience this may cause"

Then goes on to say, "in line with our pay policy as you have been overpaid and the amount is less than 25% of your four weekly pay the full amount will be recovered from your pay on Friday the 3rd of march."

Then stated amount. As drivers the amounts ranged from £8 all the way to £73.

Firstly no meeting was ever had or arranged or we were informed about. As the letter is dated the 24th the "meeting shouldve happened some time before the 24th Feb. So they've lied in the letters we've been given.
Secondly at no point at our store has anyone explained still, why and how this has happened.
Thirdly a grievance will be going straight into the management at my store on Sunday due to the poor way it has been handled and also the fact no one knows why it's happened and also with less than a weeks notice 🙄 .

Has anyone else experienced any of this
This was exactly the reason I posted this topic. In fact at our dotcom department a number of drivers have paid back more than was stated on individual letters. Questions have been asked! I doubt very much we will get satisfactory answers.

FuriousAnger

#8
Quote from: 13yearsaslave on 03-03-23, 09:33PMThis was exactly the reason I posted this topic. In fact at our dotcom department a number of drivers have paid back more than was stated on individual letters. Questions have been asked! I doubt very much we will get satisfactory answers.

This is why I'm putting in a grievance with a bunch of other drivers as it seems to be the only way you can force them to give answers. On colleague help it tells you that you can do a joint grievance if the issue is the same for everyone.

16. Can I raise a grievance with other colleagues?
If you have an identical grievance to other colleagues and raise this together, we will facilitate a sensible way of dealing with the collective grievance, and where each individual agrees, this can be addressed as one grievance hearing.
If you and your colleagues are members of USDAW, your USDAW representative can raise the grievance on your behalf. Alternatively, you can agree for one of you to represent the collective group.
Each individual's name should be listed on the grievance form or letter and we would notify the outcome of every stage to each individual.
While we would always look to follow our normal time frames, due to the number of people involved, it may be necessary to extend the timeframes, and we will agree this with you


balanced view

The first point is they should write to you to let you know about the overpayments and how and when they are going to recover it.

A letter handed to you on Monday the 27th when the latest cut off point to adjust your wages is Sunday the 26th by 12pm. Does not comply with overpayment collection section 7. As the overpayment has been taken before you were informed. I thought that any letter you received from the company should be on headed paper.

If in any of the information you were given an amount, surely anything over this should be require a separate notification and be recovered in the next pay period.

A figure for those affected seems to be closer to 26,000

It seems that protocols have been broken to recover these monies ASAP regardless of contractual obligations. Surely duty of care and a sensible and responsible action, would have led to staff having a letter prior to the recovery of the overpayment. Perhaps then the correct amounts would have been given on the letters

13yearsaslave

So I've been  doing a lot of digging and asking questions on this issue.

It seems that we don't get a skills payment whilst on holiday or  off sick.

How it works:

The skills payment is an automated payment based on contracted hours. This is paid in full each payday (regardless of how many hours have been worked).

Next month any holiday/sickness hours come into play and this is how a minus figure appears against skills payments.

Quite a few of us were unaware of this.

Still investigating as I'm not convinced

SpudChucker1970

Quote from: 13yearsaslave on 30-03-23, 12:29PMSo I've been  doing a lot of digging and asking questions on this issue.

It seems that we don't get a skills payment whilst on holiday or  off sick.

How it works:

The skills payment is an automated payment based on contracted hours. This is paid in full each payday (regardless of how many hours have been worked).

Next month any holiday/sickness hours come into play and this is how a minus figure appears against skills payments.

Quite a few of us were unaware of this.

Still investigating as I'm not convinced

The skills payment is minus, yes. However, your holiday payment includes your average earnings over the last 12 months, including your skills payments.

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