i had about 7 weeks off with pain in my lower abdomen, returned to work on light duties (my choice to do so), all covered by doctors fit notes for every absence and light duties notes since first being off, have had 2 ultrasounds and most recently a CT scan for which im awaiting result, up till now tesco have been pretty good putting me on light duties, but have now decided they can no longer support this and want me back on "my own job" as "its proving to difficult to maintain me being on the lighter job"
my "proper" job involves heavy lifting (which is against my own doctors advice at least till diagnosis is made to what the issue is). They want to go to O.H. what do i need to watch out for with this (any tricks tesco/manager may get up to in anyones experience).
all comments appreciated.
On one hand a company as big as ours should be able to accommodate a move to lighter duties.
A temp move is normally on a three wk basis, but we are not living in normal times. People are generally not even getting to see a dr within that time.
If the store is over hours, does it really matter which dept it is, but the expectations of any replenishment area are high so to move another person into a role away from replenishment is tough on the store.
On the other hand the reality is that there are hardly any jobs classed as light duties.
Checkouts still have to lift slabs of beer. The wages clerks tend to to do the laundry. Cash off have heavy bags of money. Stock control move cages to get at stock. PI lift corners of stacks to place POS. It's very difficult too if can only perform part of a role. I have heard of one person moved into PI who then said they could only do middle shelves and somebody else would have to pick up the top and bottom shelves. I have also known of someone on the kiosk who said they can't serve on lottery as unable to stretch when serving scratch cards. PFS colleague refusing to take part in doing the daily shop or fill the shelves, so the 70 year old, cancer surviving, colleague is doing it but the 35 year old can't.
I understand that we are all different and some have a much greater ability to move on from an illness or injury but Expectations need to be realistic. If light duties are requested for more than a very temp basis they need to be backed up with medical fact. Support should not be refused but the reality is that retail is a physical job. Clarification is needed if it is temp or more permanent move, so I suggest occupational health referral. If restricted duties you also need an adjustment passport and possibly a risk assessment.
Managers are not doctors, some may think so but they are not. That is what oh is for. They are dr or nurses. They understand the medical situation and can make the right recommendations.
There are plenty of duties that don't require heavy lifting...Tesco keep going on about 1 team! Changed the name badges from dept specific to CA, as the thinking is you are expected to cover any dept any time, "where and when required" ??? is this system in place at your store, that states you are on a certain dept that shift, when you clock in?
The manager is being very reckless on insisting you perform heavy lifting duties before the results of your scan is back :-X
Some of the duties you could do would be :-
Gap scan
Self serve
CSD serving tobacco and lottery
10 items or less checkout
Deli counter, if you still have one open on certain days.
They could also take the opportunity to train you on other procedures in the store e.g.
Wages
Dot com screen systems
Product investigations
PFS to cover for breaks etc..
CSD returns and other procedures they cover
You could shadow a stockie, learn their complex routines, counts and all the different routine usage with the PDA
As usual Tesco are tunnel visioned when it comes to utilising their workforce to the best of their abilities...how often are the colleagues stretched to breaking in their undermanned depts due to holiday or sickness, but can't get help as no one is trained to do the job!
I was a driver in dotcom, and apart from the lifting issues, carrying heavy loads up flats, the nature of the issue meant even pulling the van shutter down was painful, the issue is less prominent now than before (its about 5 - 6 months on since a&e when the pain was bad enough that walking was difficult), but i assume due to covid, waiting lists for 2 ultrasounds, which ended up being 2 seperate waits, then further wait for CT and result still not available. I had been put out buddying for few weeks, then on to click and collect, which although not perfect the shopping only gets slid out van and then to ground level, van was always being loaded for me (kudos to them for supporting me with that). My position is tho until result back from hospital thats as heavy as im prepared to do. Manager met with me recently just one on one to say that cannot keep me on click and collect due to dept staffing issues but from what i gather its more because some staff who were on c&c are kicking off because they are having to drive instead. Surely keeping me on C&C until i actually get result is more appropriate than o.h. although at least that way i may actually be able to get some speedy medical opinion instead of the long waits I've had so far.
Oh and throughout I've made it very clear i'd do any shifts required to help out, and any hours I've been asked to change i have done so.
121 meeting...just testing the water. Unless you're specifically told, in a formal SYA meeting, then it's status quo.
Indeed, you have met them more than half way, accommodated the shift changes etc...nah! It'll be others whinging, but your medical condition and the support plan in place is not open for discussion or explanation!
If they're trained as drivers, then they drive and support the department, it's not of any concern to them whether you're in another section of the same department!
Our "manager" recently attempted to use the OH route to shift several drivers from Support Plans.
OH do not work for Tesco and they are health care professionals. As such they are very averse to exposing themselves to prosecution for wrong decisions which cause further damage to the patient.
Every driver that they saw continued exactly as they were before and now have it officially sanctioned.
If you are still awaiting a consultation, diagnosis or test results there is no way in hell that any health care professional is going to pronounce you fit for anything that you do not consider yourself able to do.
My advice is to push for an OH assessment as soon as possible and watch your "manager" wind his neck in.....
the manager is the one suggesting o.h. paperwork be filled in and signed asap, I have no issue with it although lucgeo and hesketh replies make me think manager shouldnt be doing this at all without a proper sya meeting, and that i should maybe say "no and wait till result comes back"
Firstly OH are great they cost the store nothing and their advice is under medical grounds.
However Tesco can ignore them if they want, engage with OH fully, it's good for you, and tell them what your limitations are however I know from experience they think they know better than world experts sometimes so they're not that clever.
Once the report is back it will help them to make long term adjustments to your working to allow you to continue working.
Look out for the term 'we can make a job for you'
They can make a series of duties for you, which is what you're asking for.
Get a fit note from your GP specifying what you can and cannot do if they refuse to support you file a comment when that's ignored file a formal grievance and demand your hearing.
Light duties are always possible in a company this size I say that as a former driver who was moved off driving, on drivers pay.
Thank you horatiocain
Quote from: hesketh on 14-01-22, 01:34PM
Our "manager" recently attempted to use the OH route to shift several drivers from Support Plans.
OH do not work for Tesco and they are health care professionals. As such they are very averse to exposing themselves to prosecution for wrong decisions which cause further damage to the patient.
Every driver that they saw continued exactly as they were before and now have it officially sanctioned.
If you are still awaiting a consultation, diagnosis or test results there is no way in hell that any health care professional is going to pronounce you fit for anything that you do not consider yourself able to do.
My advice is to push for an OH assessment as soon as possible and watch your "manager" wind his neck in.....
This! I have the same issue, once it went to OH the person doing the OH even said "this has backfired on him" when I told them how and why the manager was demanding I am the only person in the store for the particular role I would be the worst person for (eyesight issues) OH backed me fully and the manager, the ER boss and the DM all s*** themselves.
Thank you for the reassurance expresscoop
Had the same with mine, they kept complaining about my speed and attendance, gave me a warning, mentioned it on the OH, OH immediately called for my condition to be put under the disability and equality act and that further absences and attacks on me for it would be protected, took a long time but honestly worth going that route as compared to union, its on the colleagues side, not the companies.
Quote from: dfl on 14-01-22, 01:56PM
the manager is the one suggesting o.h. paperwork be filled in and signed asap, I have no issue with it although lucgeo and hesketh replies make me think manager shouldnt be doing this at all without a proper sya meeting, and that i should maybe say "no and wait till result comes back"
Its in your own best interest to get OH involved as soon as possible so if or when they recommend a different role it can be actioned sooner.
They will probably wait until the results if any tests anyway.
Thanks forrestgimp, I have got o.h. involved now, just awaiting appointment with them, but agree with you that they probably wont do anything till test results come back, and in any case if my own doc says you have xyz wrong or other better outcome, I'm only really looking for doctor to say you can or can't go back to your own job and I will go with my own docs advice.
Does o.h. NEED to have access to my doctors info, i'd rather they form their own independent conclusion, it would be like a 2nd opinion for me.
It is wise to involve OH. However, a note of caution based on personal experience and witnessing this with others; Tesco will use the report to move you out of your department/ role or at least they did at my store, if they have a hidden agenda.This may work in your favour or not, but something to be mindful of.
Thanks ForCryingOutLoad honestly i think they need to get me out the driving in any case, even to click and collect or in store so wouldnt be too worried about being moved out
Results from docs comes back with nothing abnormal found but suggests pain may be Musculoskeletal (https://www.england.nhs.uk/ourwork/clinical-policy/ltc/our-work-on-long-term-conditions/musculoskeletal/) whatever that means, no further suggestions from the docs but suggests safe to return to full duties, took so long this whole thing that its not an issue to me enough now to be on light duties as far as the doc or me is concerned, just gonna take its own sweet time to resolve 100%.
Not sure whether to keep o.h. involvement going or stop it, any suggestions on benefits vs risks of doing either ?
On reading the NHS site on musculoskeletal it appears it would come under the remit of the disability discrimination laws, and all the allowances that that may invoke.
NHS talks of it as a long term disability.
Thank you Nomad, so basically may mean that it could actually benefit me to go the o.h. route
If OH makes recommendations to amend duties, do both sides have to follow it?
dfl, I believe so. Putting the NHS comments and disability laws together.
Both sides do not have to follow it, they are only recommendations. However, if you are deemed disabled and this is a big IF, then you would fall under the DDA which would be alluded to in OH report.
Thank you ForCryingOutLoud thats helpful and good to know
So if a staff member gets recommendations, T* and staff member work out a plan, can the staff member pick and choose when the recommendations apply?
Always keep OH involved, you have nothing to lose.
Their recommendations around work could be a pivotal piece of evidence should they dismiss you some time down the line.
Musculoskeletal conditions do not always heal and if they do they don't always heal fully or quickly, if you need physio this will take your condition into the years of suffering time scale, which is when you get the protections of a disability under the 2010 equality act which makes it a requirement for Tesco to make adjustments.
And because Tesco is so big there are always adjustments to keep someone in job maybe not their original roles but as a GA.
If you've suffered for 12 months or more and had to use medication then you'd likely be deemed disabled.
OH can make a judgement based recommendation that you're disabled but ultimately that's a legal question not a medical one.
You can look at recommendations. Come up with a plan and then go back to oh. It is always worth getting them involved regardless.
If a job is offered to you that you don't want you can refuse. The shift pattern and job role both need to be considered. They should not make a job for you but the expectation is that with a company our - .
size a role should be found.
There are however very limited light duty roles. Checkouts always used to be the default but it's not fully light duties as heavy items need to be scanned.
If you are wanting a job at the PFS for example, but the PFS is over hours and nobody is wanting to move out they need to look at the big picture. It's not adding hours to store total but may just make a different dept over hours. If your store is close to hours and moving you out your dept puts that dept under hours and the one you go into over hours that is still something that can happen but it might take a bit move work to land as it could mean a three or four way move. Nobody else can be made to move to accommodate you but they can be asked.
I've been offered c & c as permanent role so far, but changing shift days, was monday to friday, being offered now sun and wed as days off, still mulling it over, o.h. referal has been made but no 1st appointment yet
i would turn it down. surely you need 2 days off together especially after being ill
Sign nowt...if you're thinking of taking it, ask for a four week trial to see if it's compatible with your recovery first. If you're struggling or find it's not suitable you can go back to them any time during the four week trial. In which time your OH appointment should have come through.
I always found a day off mid week was more beneficial, for various appointments, shopping or just going out and about, as not too busy, especially with some places not open weekends.
If they're offering you the same shift hours as you do now, then it may prove beneficial to you, to show willing by meeting them halfway here.
If they're offering you shifts that are incomparable to what you do now, then I'd be wary of accepting them!
Again I say ....SIGN NOTHING!!
Cheers lucgeo and lackofinterest
I wouldn't accept anything before the OH report.
And they can move other people hours to accommodate a reasonable adjustment it isn't fair to the other people in one regard but they don't have a disability to co sister so it is in a other, equality doesn't mean treating everyone the same it means everyone having the same opportunities.
They cannot move other peoples hours to accommodate ???
They can ask, but I certainly would not advise anyone to allow their hours to be moved to accommodate another! The onus is on Tesco to accommodate, not shift their workforce round!
Anyone pressurised to move their hours to be given to another, even only partly, is suffering a detriment and should refuse out right! Any continuing insistence should be grievanced under harassment and bullying!!
They absolutely cannot move anyones hours without consent to accommodate another but what they can/will and do do (certainly in my store at least) is DFL keeps his original hours and when he turns up for his shift they tell the c&c driver "you're out on a route today" and get DFL to cover the c&c driver.
Any protestations by c&c driver will be met with "you're a driver on drivers money doing the same hours on the same day, now get delivering".
Wow seems some people need to read up a little, our hours are all movable unless they're set for specific reasons, that's why Tesco have a moving people around the business policy.
It's entirely legal and happens quite often, your contract is not for specific hours of specific days, but rather a specified number of hours per week within your availability window, your shifts are never guaranteed, only expected.
If you refuse there becomes a whole legal set of hoops to jump through but they certainly can be changed, as can duties performed.
Remember your just a colleague contracted on a number of hours, the company Alan freely move you to another department if they choose. Our contracts are specifically wooly in this area, for just this reason, and to make a reasonable adjustment for a protected colleague certainly meets the bar for justification from an employer to change hours.
They cannot reduce your hours but they most definitely can change them.
Unless it specifies in your contract what hours on what days you work then it is always open for change and unless something is happening in your store specifically the contract will just state hours per week.
All union reps get a handbook on changing hours, as it's quite complex.
So what your saying is, if they try to move people out, they should have updated their availability window so they can't, but also if they try to, they should start complaining about their role and their duties now too, that they've been put it into something they struggle to do, more so on a forced order and start going down the OH route too for issues on mental stability perhaps? And get moved back into said department...
If they can play the cards due to the contracts as you say, I guess colleagues could also start to play the cards too and have "issues" or start to "struggle" and put the blame on forced movement 🤷♂️
That's the problem, you're absolutely right, it's a 2 way street, just like flexibility Tesco don't like it when staff ask for flexibility in their work but demand it from the colleagues.
I've worked with Tesco long enough to know just how awfully run this company is.
They don't know their own policies let alone the law, the number of time I heard the phrase, 'can't make a job for them' beggars belief the number of times I heard a manager say why do we have to make adjustments for a colleague is astounding.
And please don't get me started on reasonable belief, I couldn't explain it to then with a dictionary and crayons if world survival depended upon it.
It's meant to be about being reasonable and finding a solution, so finding someone who can and will move to accommodate, but they have a duty towards the disabled employee, but they have to do it without upsetting the staff or they'll all leave, oops forgot they like that saves them making people illegally redundant like in 2018, where they sacked the stock control teams and hired new ones on shorter contracts.
Everyone hates this company now there is no loyalty a d there is no reward, so make your work life as easy as possible the management do
As a business we can't afford to create a job that is not needed. As we are heading through a structure change when things will become tough and hard for many we can't make-up jobs that are not needed.
We can however support those that need it. We can move things about and fit someone into a role that supports them but also has them playing a functional part of the company. We can't afford to pay people to do nothing so the role that is created has to be a reasonable role. We can't give someone a job on the CSD or checkouts during the times the store is closed is an extreme example. If the CSD is running on high hours but so is another area we could move someone to the desk as if we are over hours it just means one area is more over hours than it was but the overall for the store stays the same. The CSD may be reasonably asked to support checkouts during service call or to train up and support the PFS to cover breaks too.
That is the big issue.
People think their role is much more specific that it actually is, a stock controller is expected to do anything within the realm of their department which includes merchandising, a replenisher can be expected to replenish any area, they do this to create flexibility.
They hire us as GAs so that we don't have specific departments.
A GAs job is extremely varied, one of the few staff who are more limited are drivers but even the there is a clause in the contracts that states they can be required to perform the duties of a GA, so when I hear we can't make a job I always called BS.
It's about duties, they already have the job, it's just lazy management.
I know that management would rather dismiss someone and take the Tribunal hearing knowing that head office will settle the case than work hard for disabled colleagues.
Quote from: Redshoes on 02-02-22, 07:49AM
As a business we can't afford to create a job that is not needed. As we are heading through a structure change when things will become tough and hard for many we can't make-up jobs that are not needed.
We can however support those that need it. We can move things about and fit someone into a role that supports them but also has them playing a functional part of the company. We can't afford to pay people to do nothing so the role that is created has to be a reasonable role. We can't give someone a job on the CSD or checkouts during the times the store is closed is an extreme example. If the CSD is running on high hours but so is another area we could move someone to the desk as if we are over hours it just means one area is more over hours than it was but the overall for the store stays the same. The CSD may be reasonably asked to support checkouts during service call or to train up and support the PFS to cover breaks too.
What a crock of ................. GA's are employed as general assistants with no specific job on their contract and as you say it would be reasonable to ask a GA to do another non specific job such as checkouts, so the facts are they would not be making a job up for somebody just accommodating a company employee to do another job. there has got to be give and take on both sides. Fortunately my contract is specific and they couldn't move me about the store. PS did you know anyone that was working before 2005 would be cover by the legal agreement between the company and the union and would not have to cover the checkouts so there goes your reasonable to unreasonable as a point of LAW.
Can an employee decide when occupational health recommendations apply?
No, they are just that, recommendations only.
Totally agree with Batmanjo ....
Always used to really pee me off with this two sided rubbish of can't create a job... then you're a GA expected to support any dept or nearby store if deemed suitable??
All hands, everyone to support and answer checkout calls, no one is ring fenced...can't send anyone to help SC catch up on their routines as nobody trained to do it!!!
As stated, if you joined the company before ?june/july? 2005, you are not required to train on checkouts, and can refuse!
The number of times I heard that phrase became absurd.
They already are the job, your asking for ADJUSTMENTS to their job ROLE.
Trying to explain that to a mamager in Tesco is like teaching rocket science to a chimp, you have no idea if they can understand the words coming out of your mouth, and even if they do there's still chance they'll just make a mess.
Oh report came through, references condition having improved (sufficient that im back on "my own job"), does highlight i still get some pain on occasions and also highlights repeated heavy lifting as sometimes causing issue as well as on occasion stiff shutters on vans which pull on the stomach to close. In all tho i consider if management can swap out some of my driving shifts then this helps as im doing the heavy lifting a lot less, already have had some of this done and it is helping
appears i jumped the gun, runs are getting heavier and affecting my full recovery big time, o.h. report and advice given is not being followed, no adjustments are now being made at all.
If you tell them you have a health issue it will only be used against you by certain store managers.
So they need to adjust and move you back to light duties to aid your recovery.
They could factor a smaller run but in my experience that's too much work for the manager, more likely they can find you a suitable alternative role.
Be insistent that they stagger your return and eas you back in.
Where's the light duties. Can you see them. (-*-)
I asked to be referred to OH but the SM has said no,do an adjustment passport?? Any idea why? Another person, who hasn't got any medical evidence which I have several letters from specialists has got a referral to OH.
It should be adjustment passport first but can be done at the same time. Never heard of a OH referral being refused. There are less people who are able to do it now though. It's only people with a full working company email address so that will be senior team.
a oh report is something your entitled to, so if your being refused take out a grievance for it to be honest..
Finally met with manager re report, basically explaining he/she has insufficient staff to provide any lighter duty currently (and yes in my view c&c is lighter to cover a comment on here), just seems to me that manager is just deeming it too much hassle.
So this manager is not fulfilling the agreement for adjustments put in place ???
It's irrelevant to you if there is insufficient staff, that is for them to manage as their title dictates! If there is an agreement to lighter duties, and the adjustments period still in force, then they are duty bound to honour that agreement, and you can refuse to perform the heavier tasks!
It's not down to a manager, to disregard your health and well being, ignore the OH report and the agreements in place to the adjustments, just because they can't manage their department! This is your health the manager is playing god with, just to have an easier time!!
Bet your bottom dollar, if you suffer any permanent damage, the buck will pass right back to you, in that it was your decision and agreed to do it, and you'll have a hard time claiming from Tesco, should it result in being unable to work again!
The magic words you need to throw..... "CONSTRUCTIVE DISMISSAL"
Simply inform your "managers" that their actions are making your continued employment increasingly untenable and you will go to tribunal if they make leaving your only option.
CD is actually quite hard to get accepted at tribunal but you can bet your life that they will not want to be the "manager" that put the company at tribunal for it #career ender ;)
like said by others, its in their title for managing, if they dont have the staff, then tuff, they can run shorthanded, get extra hours with you being moved elsewhere etc so thats them just not wanting to do their job, if you've been told you need Lighter Duties as a reasonable adjustment they should be making it and you should be getting any and all refusals etc in writing so if you do hurt yourself due to it, or make it worse due to it, you've got grounds that your employer refused reasonable adjustments through their own reach out that they advertise and your health and safety wasn't correctly managed.
Quote from: dfl on 11-03-22, 04:38AM
Finally met with manager re report, basically explaining he/she has insufficient staff to provide any lighter duty currently (and yes in my view c&c is lighter to cover a comment on here), just seems to me that manager is just deeming it too much hassle.
I am in exactly this position right now, and going back on full duties has given me a health setback. I am having to take it further, which is stressful and as usual, the union seem to be completely unreachable!
Can I personally contact OH? I've got all my info from the drs but my manager hasn't referred me yet.
Quote from: oldfashionedplayer on 11-03-22, 07:36AM
like said by others, its in their title for managing, if they dont have the staff, then tuff, they can run shorthanded, get extra hours with you being moved elsewhere etc so thats them just not wanting to do their job, if you've been told you need Lighter Duties as a reasonable adjustment they should be making it and you should be getting any and all refusals etc in writing so if you do hurt yourself due to it, or make it worse due to it, you've got grounds that your employer refused reasonable adjustments through their own reach out that they advertise and your health and safety wasn't correctly managed.
There's managing and there's being exploited, something which the vast majority of Tesco managers fall under.
Many are working for less than minimum wage, Tesco is aware of this, but as they are so powerful they know they can get away with it.
There is too much misinformation on here. OH recommendations are recommendations ONLY. A company is not obliged to follow them but it is best practice for them to support with these recommendations. OH reports are usually requested due to LTAbsence & not because an employee wants one. Please bear in mind that asking for lighter duties is a temporary resolution. In effect you are stating you are not capable/ fit to perform your contracted role, which then becomes a capability issue. Finally, advising someone to throw constructive dismissal out there is risky. Constructive dismissal is very difficult to prove & you certainly don't want to be making these threats without seeking legal advice.
You've lost it - an OH referall is for the company to make it easier for the colleagues, in any which way. If a SM chooses to go against it - which is likely as they are protecting themselves at the mo - then on his head be it. This whole "Tesco are above the Gov" is nonsense. Collate the facts and evidence and watch senior team/SM shake...
No, an OH referral is a paper trail to demonstrate that the business has put something in place to support the colleague. Empasis on the word ' something' and reasonable. It is a tick box exercise to ensure that if it was to go to a tribunal there is supporting evidence in place. It is highly unlikely that a business will ignore the recommendations in these reports but dont be fooled / naive into thinking it is for the benefit of an employee. All referrals/ adjustments are on a case by case basis. Employees can be dismissed for their absence, report or not, once the business has exhausted all options and due process.
Quote from: ForCryingOutLoud on 06-05-22, 01:29PM
There is too much misinformation on here. OH recommendations are recommendations ONLY. A company is not obliged to follow them but it is best practice for them to support with these recommendations. OH reports are usually requested due to LTAbsence & not because an employee wants one. Please bear in mind that asking for lighter duties is a temporary resolution. In effect you are stating you are not capable/ fit to perform your contracted role, which then becomes a capability issue. Finally, advising someone to throw constructive dismissal out there is risky. Constructive dismissal is very difficult to prove & you certainly don't want to be making these threats without seeking legal advice.
correct, it is recommendation and is advisable, and if a colleague feels they aren't listened to on it, then an employment tribunal apparently is an option, but something if it's related to say a mental illness, or a disability or health condition thats going to be long term, it would be absurd not to aim to work with the colleague to put in some adjustments... colleagues could also raise the fact they are being discriminated against due to being of similar nature to someone else who's been accommodated for... so there are a lot of scenario's, in hindsight it's risky ground for a company to to ignore advice or refuse changes to a colleague as it could bite them further down the line...
Like you say, lighter duties may be temporary, but there are scenarios in which it won't be, that has to be the bigger picture of "What is the issue now" "What can we do NOW", "How Long For?" "Is this something thats going to be longterm?" "is it classed as a health / disability issue?" - if it is the last one its such a sensitive issue to tread lightly on, cause its highly likely they cannot put them back in their main position so it's "what's next?" as the outcome, and that's difficult in itself to ascertain.
Short thing is, in this day and age, it's better to accommodate than it is to challenge, cause challenging leads to pay outs, businesses don't want pay outs... so they should try all options first to cover themselves... and OH is and will be something that can be used for or against the company.....Both work together or something happens to one... Business has more to lose to be honest.
I've asked this before, but would like an answer from those 'in the know'. If OH deem an individual needs support and T* agree to the support, can the individual decide when the OH recommendations apply? e.g no heavy lifting for the employee, employee does overtime on heavy lifting job with no ill effects, back on contracted hours, employee can do no heavy lifting(as OH guidelines)
would be very silly of the employee to go by "heavy lifting on OT" but "no heavy lifting on contract" - That defeats the purpose? - Since its there as something to help, Reduced Heavy lifting overall, sure, but only on certain shifts? No that would be ridiculous for either party to partake under.
OH only give recommendations. They don't say things like "no heavy lifting" but they do say things like "might benefit from lighter duties". Jobs like click and collect are not generally seen as light duties as customers buy bulk heavy items and trays need to be stacked. This could depend on the size of your store but in a superstore it's often just one colleague working so they do the whole job.
Checkouts is generally seen as light duties but then it can come done to the hours you do or the job you do. You may be offered a role within checkouts but there may be a change to hours. We had one bakery colleague who went through OH and a move was agreed but colleague turned down because of hours. They had 5am starts in bakery and wanted to keep those hours in checkouts but the store does not open until 7am.
CSD and PFS are generally also seen as light duties but both these Depts are mostly single manned now and tend to be over hours. You can't increase hours in a dept that is already over but if you are moving from a dept that is over hours you are not changing things for the store other than where the over hours sit.
As OH are only recommendations they are not enforceable but if a big company like ours goes to court they will be asked why we can't find the hours so they really do have to try. If you are offered roles that you turn down this will be recorded as it has shown that they have listened and tried to accommodate.
Quote from: oldfashionedplayer on 06-05-22, 11:50PM
would be very silly of the employee to go by "heavy lifting on OT" but "no heavy lifting on contract" - That defeats the purpose? - Since its there as something to help, Reduced Heavy lifting overall, sure, but only on certain shifts? No that would be ridiculous for either party to partake under.
It's not that exact recommendation, but employees pick and chose when the OH support applies. I'd have thought it's duty of care too to ensure T* help the employee follow the report. Probably boils down to bad managers
Quote from: Redshoes on 07-05-22, 08:06AM
OH only give recommendations. They don't say things like "no heavy lifting" but they do say things like "might benefit from lighter duties"
This is the problem I am facing. My manager says because the report doesn't say "can't do x, y and z" he can force me to do them. I've said over and over that OH doesn't make statements like that, but it's falling on deaf ears. The report was followed up until now!
The problem with OH recommended adjustments is that not doing them is almost always going to amount to disability discrimination via direct means of objective care.
In other words as you have been told its best to make these adjustments but refuse, you are doing something a reasonable person would not.
Reasonable adjustments are considered based upon the whole of tesco and its billions of pounds of profit, so cost is never a factor.
They can't make a job but they can make a role for an existing of new colleague.
Anyone asking for adjustments by Tesco policy and therefore contractual agreement, should be referred to OH for advice and while it is advice, not flowing it is a very risky manoeuvre amd likely breaches requirements under the equalities act.
If the report has been followed 'up until now' that suggests that Tesco has supported you & that is all they need to be able to demonstrate I'm afraid, unless the report was very specific with timescales. It is a temporary adjustment. As stated above, unless you have a recognised disability Tesco doesn't need to do any more.
That's entirely incorrect, a disability under the equalities act is a legal definition and not a medical one.
The legal definition is any physical or mental impairment lasting a year or more or likely to last a year or more which significantly effects your ability to do day to day things. When making this determination the person is to be considered without medication or treatment so if someone requires daily medication its a good bet they meet the criteria.
Failure to make reasonable adjustments is direct discrimination, if OH suggest them and the company don't make them you can then request them and if they refuse they'd have a very tough time showing they had complied with their legal obligation to make reasonable adjustment.
If that meant knocking the front of the building down so you could access the property then that would be reasonable for a company with the resources of Tesco.
Just because it's not necessarily permanent does not preclude it from being classified as a disability under the terms of the equalities act. By making adjustments until now they've opened up the argument as to why?
If you were referred to OH it was because you had a long term sickness or underlying health conditions or you requested reasonable adjustments.
Tell them to read the policy for whichever one it was and follow it.
Failing that phone your union office to speak with your official and explain that you'd like to consider your legal options.
Remember it cost nothing to pursue a tribunal claim and you'll be surprised how efficient a manager is once they know you've spoken with ACAS and are going to file an ET1 form.
This is incorrect. You do not have to be taking medication to be classed as having a disability and it doesn't have to be something that lasts a year or more. For example, Cancer is classed as a disability. You may not be taking medication daily and you may not have had it for a year or more but it is still recognised as a disability. As per your post, individual cases are judged on their individual merits hence 'reasonable' adjustments. What is deemed as reasonable is where the matter becomes muddy since reasonable for one party may be perceived as unreasonable by someone else.
Rubbish, the legal definition of a disability means it must have a substantial and long term effect upon your life.
Substantial means it effects the way you live your life, I used someone needing medication as an example of someone who would have the substantial qualifier.
For example someone with medicated asthma would qualify for legal protection while someone without medication may not.
Secondly the term long term, which under the legislation LITERALLY means 12 months or more, this has been shown in several tests cases and a good deal of precedent has now been applied.
It doesn't have to have lasted 12 months, ut must be expected to last a total of 12 months.
To be classified as disabled under the equalities act there are 2 provision.
Severe impairment.
Long term.
Cancer as in your post is an automatically qualifying condition, as are prevancerous conditions which could lead to cancer within 12 months if untreated.
So too is MS HIV/AIDS severe sight impairment or a severe long term disfigurement.
The legal definition of reasonable is specific for these matter as they're judged only by the employers ability to make these adjustments compared with their comparative resources.
Asking Tes o to modify the entrance of a building is reasonable even if just for 1 person because they make billions of pounds a year asking the local newsagent who make 40,000 a year profit would likely not be reasonable.
It's pure cost to resources ratio, nothing about the individual opinion of a single person.
Is it reasonable for Tesco anyplace to make their entire building wheelchair accessible for a single employee at a cost of £100,000, the legal answer is yes because Tesco made £2.56 Billion in a year.
So let's make an example.
A stock controller at a superstore is diagnosed with fibromyalgia.
They've been in pain for a year and suffering fatigue and brain fog for the past 10 months.
It is an incurable condition.
It is having a substantial effect on the colleague.
Are they disabled? Yes, under the law they certainly are.
They ask for the entrance to the store to be made wheelchair accessible and half their duties to be changed along with a change of hours so they work 3 days a week rather than 5
Are these reasonable asks?
The rota change is simple and the company can easily make this adjustment by creating a job share it cost next to nothing so Tesco must do it.
Can the stock controller now only perform computer desk based work yes while another stock controller now only performs the physical ruitines, adjusting a others duties is perfectly reasonable under both law and policy.
Does Tesco have to spend £100,000 making the whole building wheelchair accessible and purchasing specialist equipment so the disabled person can co tinge their role.
Yes they do because the money is less than o.01% of the operating budget of the company, and the person qualifies.
The only argument Tesco could run if they refused was that the person wasn't disabled, which they'd lose in this case, these adjustments are reasonable.
And it isn't a hypothetical case, it's a real case where Tesco made these adjustment, not because it wanted to but because its required to.
Quote from: Cinderella on 07-05-22, 10:47AM
Quote from: Redshoes on 07-05-22, 08:06AM
OH only give recommendations. They don't say things like "no heavy lifting" but they do say things like "might benefit from lighter duties"
This is the problem I am facing. My manager says because the report doesn't say "can't do x, y and z" he can force me to do them. I've said over and over that OH doesn't make statements like that, but it's falling on deaf ears. The report was followed up until now!
You can do another oh referral. You are not limited to just one. If your condition is changing you can go back to oh or if your job has changed to suit recommendations you can go back. It sounds like adjustments were made for so long but have now gone back so I would suggest another referral. Questions can be asked, not sure the relationship you now seem to have with your manager would allow for this. I have not had a oh referral myself so I can't talk from your side of things but I think you should be able to mention the work adjustments that did seem to work for you.