Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

20-06-21, 11:03AM

Login with username, password and session length

Recent

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 52107
  • Total Topics: 1048
  • Online Today: 66
  • Online Ever: 660
  • (06-06-21, 01:57AM)
Users Online

Author Topic: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway  (Read 10560 times)

dfl

  • VLH Supporter
  • Know All
  • ******
  • Posts: 288
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #25 on: 01-03-21, 07:57AM »
I was under the belief that the 3 minute clocking out early was a law years ago about time to clean up/wash hands after work. I've seen people doing this for years with no hassles, as for late clocking in this wouldnt be under same or any other law to my knowledge.
DFL

forrestgimp

  • VLH Supporter
  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 1113
  • Can't wait to retire when I am 110
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #26 on: 12-03-21, 03:23PM »
You can have whatever belief you want however untill you cite an official document saying the same it means nothing.


You really need to get used to having the proof of what you assert to hand even if that means photocopying documents from the internet and having them with you.


its something I do as a matter of course and its got me out of situations a lot of times.

Cinderella

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 95
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #27 on: 12-03-21, 07:51PM »
I know someone who clocked out a minute early, and had 15 minutes deducted from her pay. We had all previously been told about the three minute leeway, but maybe it’s just discretionary

beentheredoneit

  • VLH Supporter
  • Know All
  • ******
  • Posts: 229
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #28 on: 13-03-21, 05:21PM »
Lateness cannot be deducted.
It is a disciplinary matter.
You should clock in to give you time to get to your department at start of shift.
Clock off when coming from your department.
So should clock in up to 3 minutes before and out up to 3 minutes after your shift,
beentheredoneit

lackofinterest

  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 1215
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #29 on: 13-03-21, 06:06PM »
rubbish. clock in start of shift time. clock out at end of shift time >:D

lackofinterest

  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 1215
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #30 on: 13-03-21, 06:08PM »
3 minutes to get to work area at start and 3 minutes to get to clock at end >:D

oldfashionedplayer

  • Regular Pain
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #31 on: 13-03-21, 06:59PM »
Lateness cannot be deducted.
It is a disciplinary matter.
You should clock in to give you time to get to your department at start of shift.
Clock off when coming from your department.
So should clock in up to 3 minutes before and out up to 3 minutes after your shift,

If you read the security thing etc and "not serving customers or going into the back on your break" etc, then your classed as a customer if you clock in early because your shift doesn't start until that time, you are classed as working once you leave the colleague area door, so by that standing you clock in exactly on time, you leave the door, and when you are clocking out, you clock out on time by giving yourself time to leave the shopfloor and get to the colleague room door....

whatajoke2019

  • VLH Supporter
  • Regular Pain
  • ******
  • Posts: 194
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #32 on: 15-03-21, 12:04AM »
Lateness cannot be deducted.
It is a disciplinary matter.
You should clock in to give you time to get to your department at start of shift.
Clock off when coming from your department.
So should clock in up to 3 minutes before and out up to 3 minutes after your shift,

I wish I'd have known this a few years ago. Was late for work by fifteen minutes once (due to a bad accident on the way into work), apologised to my then manager, and made the time back on the same day.

Their 'thanks'? Docking me fifteen minutes come pay day... I know I should've challenged it but didn't bother as I wouldn't have seen it anyway, HMRC would've!  ???

Biscuit tin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #33 on: 15-03-21, 09:10AM »
Always been under impression that as long as the time between clocks is same as shift length then it doesn't even show up on exceptions. Quite often apologised for being late due to circumstances beyond my control but made up time at end, only to be told it had never came up on them.

Batmanjo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #34 on: 15-03-21, 11:11AM »
Lateness cannot be deducted.
It is a disciplinary matter.
You should clock in to give you time to get to your department at start of shift.
Clock off when coming from your department.
So should clock in up to 3 minutes before and out up to 3 minutes after your shift,

If you read the security thing etc and "not serving customers or going into the back on your break" etc, then your classed as a customer if you clock in early because your shift doesn't start until that time, you are classed as working once you leave the colleague area door, so by that standing you clock in exactly on time, you leave the door, and when you are clocking out, you clock out on time by giving yourself time to leave the shopfloor and get to the colleague room door....

You should clock in at the start of your shift, then you would go to your locker as the company don't ask they TELL you that you cannot have certain personal possessions on your person due to security checks. Then at the end of your shift you would return to your locker retrieve your personal possessions and then clock out at the end of your shift. No company is allowed to have you work for nothing if you did all this on your own time you would be working an average of 6 to 10 mins a day 30 to 50 mins a week, so if you were paid £5 minimum a week for this inconvenience multiply this by 100,000 other staff and £500,000 in someone elses pocket a week just not right.   

NightAndDay

  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 1325
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #35 on: 15-03-21, 11:55AM »
There was a legal case supporting the above with Sports Direct warehouse practices of the 30 minute security checks being unpaid, the courts decided that this should be classed as working time and as a result had to pay a fine to HMRC and backpay employees wages. Also resulted in Mike Ashley being given the challenging conversations by the parliamentary select committee. They gave him a right royal rollocking.

Nomad

  • Administrator
  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 7006
  • Who dares, wins.
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #36 on: 15-03-21, 12:24PM »
A little light reading.

https://www.capitaworkforcemanagement.co.uk/news/will-sports-direct-ruling-affect-business/

Quote
In admitting to workers being underpaid because they were forced to wait in line for security checks after clocking out, Sports Direct has accepted that security checks, and by implication, other activities such as changing clothes etc. should be within paid time.

This could have implications for a huge number of companies should the Government decide to rule in favour of the HMRC, which expresses that any business in breach of employment legislation will be forced to pay arrears, as well as fined up to 200% of said arrears.

Ultimately, businesses that do not allow employees to clock-in until they are ‘fully ready’ to work may find themselves in the same boat as Sports Direct.


https://www.employmentsolicitor.com/sports-direct-case-shows-employers-must-adhere-employees-rights/
Quote
This raises issues for employers such as being aware of how disciplinary schemes are being operated. There is nothing wrong with employers having disciplinary schemes but if staff, for example, are attending work when they are ill due to the fear of losing their job, then this will create a health and safety risk that could lead to claims by the employee and/or prosecution by the Health and Safety Executive.
Nomad ( Forum Admin )
It's better to be up in arms than down on your knees.

grim up north

  • Know All
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #37 on: 15-03-21, 12:48PM »
Fantastic info and links nomad  :thumbup:

Welshie

  • VLH Supporter
  • Smart Arse
  • ******
  • Posts: 734
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #38 on: 15-03-21, 03:43PM »
There was a legal case supporting the above with Sports Direct warehouse practices of the 30 minute security checks being unpaid, the courts decided that this should be classed as working time and as a result had to pay a fine to HMRC and backpay employees wages. Also resulted in Mike Ashley being given the challenging conversations by the parliamentary select committee. They gave him a right royal rollocking.

Also think it was this that led to Tesco paying pfs staff 15mins per shift clocking time to get back and forth across car park while  still doing their full shift in pfs .

Batmanjo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #39 on: 01-05-21, 01:32PM »
There was a legal case supporting the above with Sports Direct warehouse practices of the 30 minute security checks being unpaid, the courts decided that this should be classed as working time and as a result had to pay a fine to HMRC and backpay employees wages. Also resulted in Mike Ashley being given the challenging conversations by the parliamentary select committee. They gave him a right royal rollocking.

Also think it was this that led to Tesco paying pfs staff 15mins per shift clocking time to get back and forth across car park while  still doing their full shift in pfs .

Like I have said before you clock in and out on time if they wish for you to be on your department then they need to pay for staff to start at an earlier time same as finishing times, I know this is abused with the checkout staff as they are logged in and out on their till and are told to be on and off at start and finish times probably increasing their working day by 10 mins if this was worked out across the company they save millions ££ If you believe you are being short changed in this way contact ACAS and complain, the more that complain the better the chance of resolve and change for colleagues.

horatiocain

  • Know All
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #40 on: 05-05-21, 10:53AM »
In my old CFC the driver worked to rule by clicking in then going to get their saftey footwear on for a month, cost Tesco a small fortune as every van went late for a month,management soon stopped moaning about the 3 minute leeway.

gomezz

  • Global Moderator
  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 2768
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #41 on: 05-05-21, 09:02PM »
I think you need to explain a bit more "going to get their safety footwear".  Why would that cause such a delay?
"The progress of the kart is more important than its direction"

oldfashionedplayer

  • Regular Pain
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #42 on: 05-05-21, 11:53PM »
I'd assume because they would clock in, then they'd have their safety footwear stationed elsewhere, so they've arrived in normal shoes, clocked in on time, then go and get changed into said shoes, etc, but they would of probably put them far away perhaps?  ;D

gomezz

  • Global Moderator
  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 2768
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #43 on: 06-05-21, 09:08PM »
Curious!  I put my safety boots on at home when I get dressed for work.  I would find to tedious to have to change footwear when I get to work and then again when I leave work.   ???
"The progress of the kart is more important than its direction"

Robert Onedin.

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Tesco a great place to work?.
« Reply #44 on: 06-05-21, 09:17PM »
Administrator Comment Please don't change the topic title, also please find an existing topic that your post is more suited to, or become a supporter and start your own topics.
« Last Edit: 06-05-21, 10:04PM by Nomad »

oldfashionedplayer

  • Regular Pain
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #45 on: 07-05-21, 02:05PM »
Curious!  I put my safety boots on at home when I get dressed for work.  I would find to tedious to have to change footwear when I get to work and then again when I leave work.   ???

If your working to rule then uniform policy and backdoor policy says you can change out as when needed, so if I do backdoor I can run up, change shoes, come down, go to backdoor deal with that, change back, as then I'm adhering to safety on the back door and can go back to comfort of my own shoes.

So could work same way  ;D

horatiocain

  • Know All
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #46 on: 11-05-21, 07:25PM »
I think you need to explain a bit more "going to get their safety footwear".  Why would that cause such a delay?

Saftey footwear should be stored in the company provided locker, which over 100 drivers did.
It's a 3-5 minute walk from our clocking machines to our locker room, 7-11 minute round trip to get saftey equipment.
We worked in a CFC, the moved the clock in machine to the office and were demanding we clocked in before our shift and we had enough.

It's about making them follow rules which are poorly thought out when they make us do the same, a friend who was a rep loved this phrase.
There is always an expectation of reciprocity.
If you must follow a rule to its letter then you must follow every rule to its letter.
Work to rule and the company suffers, its not malicious, sometimes they need to understand the reciprocity.

gomezz

  • Global Moderator
  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 2768
Re: Clocking in and out 3 minute leeway
« Reply #47 on: 11-05-21, 08:59PM »
I think you need to explain a bit more "going to get their safety footwear".  Why would that cause such a delay?

Saftey footwear should be stored in the company provided locker,
First I have heard of that rule.
"The progress of the kart is more important than its direction"