Magor Distribution Depot have employed so many younger people lately and are training them on other jobs, instead of first going picking for months first.. some of them, even before they receive their contract.
They would love to get rid of those on the old contracts. Does anyone think there would be voluntary redundancies at Magor again ?
Rumours have surfaced once again at Magor. This time it's not a general one to cover all, because Magor is finding it very difficult to hold on to its newly trained personnel. This rumours relates to the few people whose job is tipping and checking every single day. I think there's only about 6 or 7 of them in the whole distribution network..With reduced checks coming in on every load, their job will be redundant, so they'll have to be offered redundancy..
Just heard today all legacy warehouse, security and clerical staff have been offered redundancy in both Belfast and Antrim sites. Unfortunately drivers are excluded from this offer.
Quote from: belfast driver on 15-01-24, 08:12PMJust heard today all legacy warehouse, security and clerical staff have been offered redundancy in both Belfast and Antrim sites. Unfortunately drivers are excluded from this offer.
What next for stores? Opening hours have been reviewed. When there is one change it has a knock on in the food chain.
Quote from: belfast driver on 15-01-24, 08:12PMJust heard today all legacy warehouse, security and clerical staff have been offered redundancy in both Belfast and Antrim sites. Unfortunately drivers are excluded from this offer.
It's not redundancy is it?
Quote from: belfast driver on 15-01-24, 08:12PMJust heard today all legacy warehouse, security and clerical staff have been offered redundancy in both Belfast and Antrim sites. Unfortunately drivers are excluded from this offer.
Legacy drivers were offered a contract buy out during the 2022 contract discussion's and none took the offer up. So it looks like they are going to let the legacy run its course as there is plenty coming up on retirement and for the ones that are left it wont cost them that much to keep them as are.
The 2022 offer was never really aimed at the Legacy Contracts. The aim was to tidy up the multiple similar contracts in existence at some depots.
My offer was around £24k, which was one of the largest, but still way too low to even consider. A tax free £100k would have been the minimum credible offer.
There aren't enough Legacy drivers (and the actual difference is not really large enough) to make us a priority. Tesco's main motivation to get rid of the Legacy contracts is the extra administration work. There are very few managers and wage clerks left who understand the contract, resulting in many retrospective queries and corrections
Antrim/Belfast have been offered voluntary redundancy for legacy contracts.... If you don't take the offer, you stay of your present contract with no change....
This has been rolled out to all Legacy depots now. Warehouse and clerical only, not drivers...
It's only a matter of time until the legacy drivers get an offer. They want everyone on the 2022 contract.
Will someone confirm it's not a redundancy offer please
Quote from: hesketh on 17-01-24, 11:21AMThis has been rolled out to all Legacy depots now. Warehouse and clerical only, not drivers...
[/quote I've been told it's been withdrawn from my site.
Livingston has been offered the deal too...
In Hinckley warehouse old contracts received Voluntary Severance Offer. We can stay on old contracts but for how long? May Tesco forced us to change contracts without any bonus? Some people would stay, but they afraid will be forced to change their contract or reduced in some other way.
If they could change your contract that easily, why offer you a pay off?
Tesco don't want the bad publicity so easier for them to offer redundancy. Personally I think any who refuses This offer is mad as they could come back in a few months and force workers onto the new contract.
Quote from: belfast driver on 18-01-24, 08:44PMTesco don't want the bad publicity so easier for them to offer redundancy. Personally I think any who refuses This offer is mad as they could come back in a few months and force workers onto the new contract.
Totally agree remember when they got rid of the deputy mangers in express. The area manager told my deputy to take redundancy and in 6 months call them and they will give them a job as a SL in their group. After 6 months got there job back with redundancy pay
Was told its contracts from mid 80s wonder when till
These are contracts from before 2010, in the letter they write that they do not plan to submit another offer. Two years ago, they offered small money for switching to a new contract, but no one took advantage of it.Some people claim that if there are few people left on the old contracts, Tesco will be able to force them to change the contract more easily.
I started 1995 so that would be me then security
Quote from: Ursus on 19-01-24, 02:43PMThese are contracts from before 2010, in the letter they write that they do not plan to submit another offer. Two years ago, they offered small money for switching to a new contract, but no one took advantage of it.Some people claim that if there are few people left on the old contracts, Tesco will be able to force them to change the contract more easily.
I've been in many meetings/pay talks. Every time they say they won't give another/better offer. Yet more often than not they do. Who knows if this time they really mean it. What else could they offer that is better further down the line?
Some people would prefer to change the contract and stay with Tesco, but not for free. And there is no such offer now. You can stay on the old contract or change to a new one, but for free.
Wait and see what I get offered
Has anybody had an offer yet
@mickeymouse1962 you work in a depot??
Store security
Store security
@mickeymouse1962 think the rumours are for depots not stores
I can hope
Quote from: Mickymouse1962 on 21-01-24, 12:18PMI can hope
It's for DC's only with Legacy contracts, from what I've been told the offers are not great & very few are thinking of taking the offer...
Dilligaf a high percentage of Belfast warehouse have accepted the offer. Why wouldn't you? The legacy contract is no longer viable and they will do there best to get rid of it .
It's called severance pay !!! Not redundancy
Call it what you want, but if in 6 months they offer you a new contract for free or say goodbye, you won't win with their lawyers. >:(
The letter says that for this deal to be implemented, an appropriate threshold must be reached, but they do not specify what percentage of employees must agree, so I think this is a game on Tesco's part.
Any threshold will be fine for them, I think they want to convince each other to leave.
If I were legacy I would take it and run. I have 17 years in the business and sadly its not being offered to me as I am not legacy. But if they offered it to me I would bite there hands off and jump the ship before it sinks.
Tesco do not need to be making this offer at all. There are other routes they could be taking that would have a much less significant cost to them (I have heard estimates of £7 million). However Tesco have historically been fair, and even, generous regarding "redundancy" payments.
Tesco want rid of the legacy contract as it cannot be supported on the new payroll system. Therefore you must expect that not taking the offer will result in your contract being changed to the new Ts&Cs very shortly afterwards. If you work few weekends and work a lot of overtime this might not affect you much at all.
What needs to be considered is the result of not taking the offer. Personally, I would lose several thousands a year and will take the offer the moment it is offered to drivers.
Hope it's stores as well would think so as a lot of stores have staff on these contracts
Quote from: Mickymouse1962 on 31-01-24, 08:34AMHope it's stores as well would think so as a lot of stores have staff on these contracts
All store colleagues are on the new 2022 contracts. You can thank USDAW for that one. This is distribution were different contracts, different levels off pay and different unions are involved.
Quote from: ImBackBaby on 31-01-24, 09:20AMQuote from: Mickymouse1962 on 31-01-24, 08:34AMHope it's stores as well would think so as a lot of stores have staff on these contracts
All store colleagues are on the new 2022 contracts. You can thank USDAW for that one. This is distribution were different contracts, different levels off pay and different unions are involved.
I am still on old contract sick from day 1 and all the other things
Hesketh how long do you think before they come after the drivers?
I doubt that it will be this year. The process will take 3-4 months which would put us into the summer if they do it in the near future.
Although they claim to be over staffed, driver wise, in our depot they would still need to recruit if the take up is as big as I anticipate it being.
There is also the fact that they are basically using the pay out to offset taxes due on the extra money from Christmas.
I would be expect them to come for the drivers this time next year. Much easier to recruit from the agencies in the slack months and lots of Christmas cash to avoid paying tax on.
It really depends on how much longer they are prepared to pay for a payroll department that they don't need anymore. Tesco are not famous for doing their sums well ;)
Belfast is also over subscribed with drivers. Night shift sit about half the night.
Just because a payroll system can't be adapted for different contracts doesn't allow a company to change people onto new contracts, look at the Scottish ruling. I'm on Legacy and have been offered nothing as yet
Quote from: Ursus on 26-01-24, 09:24PMCall it what you want, but if in 6 months they offer you a new contract for free or say goodbye, you won't win with their lawyers. >:(
livingston distribution won,if it was as easy as you say it would be done by now, however good the lawyers are rules are rules
Livingston was a very different case.
Tesco would go to the courts to argue that it is not justifiable to operate an entire payroll system for a couple of hundred employees out of 30,000+.
Once they have achieved that number, by getting rid of the few thousand warehouse legacy staff, they have a very strong argument. As Ursus said, good luck with their lawyers ???
So make the legacy staff redundant rather then voluntary severance?
Quote from: hesketh on 01-02-24, 11:50AMLivingston was a very different case.
Tesco would go to the courts to argue that it is not justifiable to operate an entire payroll system for a couple of hundred employees out of 30,000+.
Once they have achieved that number, by getting rid of the few thousand warehouse legacy staff, they have a very strong argument. As Ursus said, good luck with their lawyers ???
All dc's are on different terms/conditions/pay already and will be even if everyone is on the newer contract so how would that argument stand up?
Something like this happened before, and the people who refused the offer were given notice to terminated their employment and on the last day they were offered to stay but on the new contract. This was also to do with the introduction of a new payroll system and the old payments, Saturday premium etc, affected one person in the store I worked in, I believe that it eventually went to ET, and Tesco lost because they didn't introduce the new payroll system, this would be over 8 years ago
it's interesting because most people in my depot will accept the offer and Tesco will lose a lot of experienced employees, but I don't think they will suddenly give another offer.It's hard to believe that it's just about the payroll system, they think we earn too much and they will save money by hiring new employees and our severance pay will quickly be made up.
@grim up north
Staff aren't made redundant, jobs are. They cannot hire for 6 months to replace anyone given redundancy.
Whilst there are different contracts at different depots, only the legacy contract cannot be automated.
@terra
Tesco have cocked similar moves up many times before, but they have done their homework this time. They will have all the legal ducks lined up
@Ursus
Tesco don't value experience anymore. They have expensive computer systems and graduate managers now 8-)
They see older staff members as less productive and are looking to replace us with younger, faster and less troublesome models. The money is barely relevant.
Quote from: hesketh on 01-02-24, 11:50AMLivingston was a very different case.
Tesco would go to the courts to argue that it is not justifiable to operate an entire payroll system for a couple of hundred employees out of 30,000+.
Once they have achieved that number, by getting rid of the few thousand warehouse legacy staff, they have a very strong argument. As Ursus said, good luck with their lawyers ???
[/quote Livingston was Exactly the same case actually not everyone was on legacy and they attempted to fire and rehire, which they didn't manage
Quote from: Zx81 on 02-02-24, 04:15AMQuote from: hesketh on 01-02-24, 11:50AMLivingston was a very different case.
Tesco would go to the courts to argue that it is not justifiable to operate an entire payroll system for a couple of hundred employees out of 30,000+.
Once they have achieved that number, by getting rid of the few thousand warehouse legacy staff, they have a very strong argument. As Ursus said, good luck with their lawyers ???
[/quote Livingston was Exactly the same case actually not everyone was on legacy and they attempted to fire and rehire, which they didn't manage
out of interest as you seem to have knowledge of Livingston's circumstances, could you run through the differences it would be handy to know, and the payroll issue is a red herring as modern payroll software can work out multiple pay differences as all dc,s are on a different rate, sounds like a technicality that wouldn't stand up in court, but that's me speaking not a Lawyer
hesketh, you are 100% right, they do not value old workers, they see us like a problem, new people do not discuss but running. I decided to take severance and find new eployer.
Quote from: Zx81 on 02-02-24, 07:08AMQuote from: Zx81 on 02-02-24, 04:15AMQuote from: hesketh on 01-02-24, 11:50AMLivingston was a very different case.
Tesco would go to the courts to argue that it is not justifiable to operate an entire payroll system for a couple of hundred employees out of 30,000+.
Once they have achieved that number, by getting rid of the few thousand warehouse legacy staff, they have a very strong argument. As Ursus said, good luck with their lawyers ???
[/quote Livingston was Exactly the same case actually not everyone was on legacy and they attempted to fire and rehire, which they didn't manage
out of interest as you seem to have knowledge of Livingston's circumstances, could you run through the differences it would be handy to know, and the payroll issue is a red herring as modern payroll software can work out multiple pay differences as all dc,s are on a different rate, sounds like a technicality that wouldn't stand up in court, but that's me speaking not a Lawyer
As usual Tesco have bought a rubbish system. Whilst there are many different rates, the new contracts are all automatable requiring minimal managerial or clerical interventions. The "legacy" contract contains many options and arrangements that require much manual input. Our depot now has few managers that understand the structure and, I'm told, our wages dept has only one clerk up to speed. Maintaining and training that wage dept for a few hundred people can be argued to be too expensive and unnecessary.
The "Fire and Rehire" attempt at Livingston was about Retained Pay arrangements for employees from the previous depot. They were promised significant pay augmentation in perpetuity. Tesco's bean counters decided that they could save a fortune if they went back on the promise and screwed those employees over. Fortunately the Scottish courts kicked the idea out. However the issue has rumbled on in England with the union winning, Tesco winning the appeal and the union now appealing the appeal. We all know who wins these things in the end eh?
Quote from: hesketh on 05-02-24, 05:42PMQuote from: Zx81 on 02-02-24, 07:08AMQuote from: Zx81 on 02-02-24, 04:15AMQuote from: hesketh on 01-02-24, 11:50AMLivingston was a very different case.
Tesco would go to the courts to argue that it is not justifiable to operate an entire payroll system for a couple of hundred employees out of 30,000+.
Once they have achieved that number, by getting rid of the few thousand warehouse legacy staff, they have a very strong argument. As Ursus said, good luck with their lawyers ???
[/quote Livingston was Exactly the same case actually not everyone was on legacy and they attempted to fire and rehire, which they didn't manage
out of interest as you seem to have knowledge of Livingston's circumstances, could you run through the differences it would be handy to know, and the payroll issue is a red herring as modern payroll software can work out multiple pay differences as all dc,s are on a different rate, sounds like a technicality that wouldn't stand up in court, but that's me speaking not a Lawyer
As usual Tesco have bought a rubbish system. Whilst there are many different rates, the new contracts are all automatable requiring minimal managerial or clerical interventions. The "legacy" contract contains many options and arrangements that require much manual input. Our depot now has few managers that understand the structure and, I'm told, our wages dept has only one clerk up to speed. Maintaining and training that wage dept for a few hundred people can be argued to be too expensive and unnecessary.
The "Fire and Rehire" attempt at Livingston was about Retained Pay arrangements for employees from the previous depot. They were promised significant pay augmentation in perpetuity. Tesco's bean counters decided that they could save a fortune if they went back on the promise and screwed those employees over. Fortunately the Scottish courts kicked the idea out. However the issue has rumbled on in England with the union winning, Tesco winning the appeal and the union now appealing the appeal. We all know who wins these things in the end eh?
Quote from: hesketh on 05-02-24, 05:42PMQuote from: Zx81 on 02-02-24, 07:08AMQuote from: Zx81 on 02-02-24, 04:15AMQuote from: hesketh on 01-02-24, 11:50AMLivingston was a very different case.
Tesco would go to the courts to argue that it is not justifiable to operate an entire payroll system for a couple of hundred employees out of 30,000+.
Once they have achieved that number, by getting rid of the few thousand warehouse legacy staff, they have a very strong argument. As Ursus said, good luck with their lawyers ???
[/quote Livingston was Exactly the same case actually not everyone was on legacy and they attempted to fire and rehire, which they didn't manage
out of interest as you seem to have knowledge of Livingston's circumstances, could you run through the differences it would be handy to know, and the payroll issue is a red herring as modern payroll software can work out multiple pay differences as all dc,s are on a different rate, sounds like a technicality that wouldn't stand up in court, but that's me speaking not a Lawyer
As usual Tesco have bought a rubbish system. Whilst there are many different rates, the new contracts are all automatable requiring minimal managerial or clerical interventions. The "legacy" contract contains many options and arrangements that require much manual input. Our depot now has few managers that understand the structure and, I'm told, our wages dept has only one clerk up to speed. Maintaining and training that wage dept for a few hundred people can be argued to be too expensive and unnecessary.
The "Fire and Rehire" attempt at Livingston was about Retained Pay arrangements for employees from the previous depot. They were promised significant pay augmentation in perpetuity. Tesco's bean counters decided that they could save a fortune if they went back on the promise and screwed those employees over. Fortunately the Scottish courts kicked the idea out. However the issue has rumbled on in England with the union winning, Tesco winning the appeal and the union now appealing the appeal. We all know who wins these things in the end eh?
Quote from: hesketh on 05-02-24, 05:42PMQuote from: Zx81 on 02-02-24, 07:08AMQuote from: Zx81 on 02-02-24, 04:15AMQuote from: hesketh on 01-02-24, 11:50AMLivingston was a very different case.
Tesco would go to the courts to argue that it is not justifiable to operate an entire payroll system for a couple of hundred employees out of 30,000+.
Once they have achieved that number, by getting rid of the few thousand warehouse legacy staff, they have a very strong argument. As Ursus said, good luck with their lawyers ???
[/quote Livingston was Exactly the same case actually not everyone was on legacy and they attempted to fire and rehire, which they didn't manage
out of interest as you seem to have knowledge of Livingston's circumstances, could you run through the differences it would be handy to know, and the payroll issue is a red herring as modern payroll software can work out multiple pay differences as all dc,s are on a different rate, sounds like a technicality that wouldn't stand up in court, but that's me speaking not a Lawyer
As usual Tesco have bought a rubbish system. Whilst there are many different rates, the new contracts are all automatable requiring minimal managerial or clerical interventions. The "legacy" contract contains many options and arrangements that require much manual input. Our depot now has few managers that understand the structure and, I'm told, our wages dept has only one clerk up to speed. Maintaining and training that wage dept for a few hundred people can be argued to be too expensive and unnecessary.
The "Fire and Rehire" attempt at Livingston was about Retained Pay arrangements for employees from the previous depot. They were promised significant pay augmentation in perpetuity. Tesco's bean counters decided that they could save a fortune if they went back on the promise and screwed those employees over. Fortunately the Scottish courts kicked the idea out. However the issue has rumbled on in England with the union winning, Tesco winning the appeal and the union now appealing the appeal. We all know who wins these things in the end eh?
Quote from: hesketh on 05-02-24, 05:42PMQuote from: Zx81 on 02-02-24, 07:08AMQuote from: Zx81 on 02-02-24, 04:15AMQuote from: hesketh on 01-02-24, 11:50AMLivingston was a very different case.
Tesco would go to the courts to argue that it is not justifiable to operate an entire payroll system for a couple of hundred employees out of 30,000+.
Once they have achieved that number, by getting rid of the few thousand warehouse legacy staff, they have a very strong argument. As Ursus said, good luck with their lawyers ???
[/quote Livingston was Exactly the same case actually not everyone was on legacy and they attempted to fire and rehire, which they didn't manage
out of interest as you seem to have knowledge of Livingston's circumstances, could you run through the differences it would be handy to know, and the payroll issue is a red herring as modern payroll software can work out multiple pay differences as all dc,s are on a different rate, sounds like a technicality that wouldn't stand up in court, but that's me speaking not a Lawyer
As usual Tesco have bought a rubbish system. Whilst there are many different rates, the new contracts are all automatable requiring minimal managerial or clerical interventions. The "legacy" contract contains many options and arrangements that require much manual input. Our depot now has few managers that understand the structure and, I'm told, our wages dept has only one clerk up to speed. Maintaining and training that wage dept for a few hundred people can be argued to be too expensive and unnecessary.
The "Fire and Rehire" attempt at Livingston was about Retained Pay arrangements for employees from the previous depot. They were promised significant pay augmentation in perpetuity. Tesco's bean counters decided that they could save a fortune if they went back on the promise and screwed those employees over. Fortunately the Scottish courts kicked the idea out. However the issue has rumbled on in England with the union winning, Tesco winning the appeal and the union now appealing the appeal. We all know who wins these things in the end eh?
Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it, still seems a bit of a poor argument considering it's a system that's not up to scratch, especially with Horizon in the news with its post office failings, thanks again.
Strange times in Belfast CDC. The new hive system goes live tonight and the chat is they are sending alot of trucks out double manned as there is too many drivers for the volume of runs. Things definitely not looking good for legacy drivers.
Quote from: belfast driver on 06-02-24, 04:27PMStrange times in Belfast CDC. The new hive system goes live tonight and the chat is they are sending alot of trucks out double manned as there is too many drivers for the volume of runs. Things definitely not looking good for legacy drivers.
And I bet you a tenner they will still flood the place on Friday nights with hauliers.
Probably. Less work for the Tesco men ;D
Quote from: grim up north on 17-01-24, 05:25PMWill someone confirm it's not a redundancy offer please
Its a voluntary severance pay....not redundancy
Severance is basically a form of redundancy in which the person voluntarily leaves the company by mutual agreement and so gives up the right to tribunal, allowing the company to replace leavers immediately. The severance offer is also a bit on the cheap compared to what actual redundancy would be. Perhaps the severance offer has not been made to drivers as they can not be used as comparitors in the equal pay claim. In my mind the company would not be offering this money if it didn't have to.
Dorset it's only a my of time before the legacy drivers are made an offer. They want us all on the 2022 contract. Hopefully we get offered more than the warehouse as it was pretty poor to be honest.
Quote from: belfast driver on 15-02-24, 05:30PMDorset it's only a matter of time before the legacy drivers are made an offer. They want us all on the 2022 contract. Hopefully we get offered more than the warehouse as it was pretty poor to be honest.
Quote from: Dorset on 15-02-24, 01:58PMSeverance is basically a form of redundancy in which the person voluntarily leaves the company by mutual agreement and so gives up the right to tribunal, allowing the company to replace leavers immediately. The severance offer is also a bit on the cheap compared to what actual redundancy would be. Perhaps the severance offer has not been made to drivers as they can not be used as comparitors in the equal pay claim. In my mind the company would not be offering this money if it didn't have to.
My thinking is if the Legacy numbers are sufficiently brought down those who chose to stay will be put on tupe then given 2 years retained pay and put on a 2022 contract anyway, that's why there's a threshold that needs to be reached for the severance to be activated.
Zx81 I agree 100 percent. Some drivers in Belfast think they are safe. Some think they are worth 200k severance. It's only a matter of time before we are all on the 2022 contract.
I bumped into 2 of my ex colleagues yesterday who informed me that Magor are offering 100 redundancies to the legacy workforce. Bearing in mind Magor has been open 30 years this year. I'm led to believe that Tenko are after the remaining workforce legacy contracts,with a view to buying them out. The offer excludes the remaining Transport department.
Quote from: Strokesurvivor on 11-04-24, 12:08PMI bumped into 2 of my ex colleagues yesterday who informed me that Magor are offering 100 redundancies to the legacy workforce. Bearing in mind Magor has been open 30 years this year. I'm led to believe that Tenko are after the remaining workforce legacy contracts,with a view to buying them out. The offer excludes the remaining Transport department.
All legacy in Belfast & Antrim bar Drivers have pretty much all but a few taken the offer, the amount of colleagues leaving in May is gonna be interesting to watch.
Quote from: Strokesurvivor on 11-04-24, 12:08PMI bumped into 2 of my ex colleagues yesterday who informed me that Magor are offering 100 redundancies to the legacy workforce. Bearing in mind Magor has been open 30 years this year. I'm led to believe that Tenko are after the remaining workforce legacy contracts,with a view to buying them out. The offer excludes the remaining Transport department.
Only a matter of time before the legacy drivers are made an offer to buy out there contracts. Alot of chat going about that the legacy contract will be no more by next April.