Have currently been off sick, I have sick notes to cover my time off. I had a wellness meeting last week, offered occupational health referral etc.
I now have covid, I've spoke to the store, sent in all relevant information.
Was sent a letter today, posted through the door by deputy store manager.
Invitation to investigation meeting, via phone call, to discuss allegations of working in another retail outlet whilst off sick from work.
Yes I do have two jobs, I have been off sick from both. Generally very worried, not sure what to expect.
Thanks
You can have 2 jobs, nothing wrong with that, the insinuation is that you've been working elsewhere while positive for covid. They would need proof of this to make any of it stick, so if you haven't then you'll have nothing to worry about, in fact the investigation meeting would be done during working hours so it'll be like an extended break.
The meeting is on Sunday night via a phone call.
I haven't left the house since 23rd December as my other half tested positive four days before I did.
Just think it's getting on top of me, stress of everything as well a being stuck inside
Sounds to me like someone has stuck the knife in and told a manager somewhere along the way that you were working at your second job while off sick from this one.
Happens a lot I'm afraid take no notice and just tell them the truth it will all be fine.
yeah working elsewhere isn't their business whether you've told them about your 2nd job or not, if your at home working, nothing they can do to be honest, long as theirs no merit to it, it'll all be fine, you could always ask for for a rescheduling to when you can be in-person with a union rep rather than a phone call, since it should ideally be all written down anyhow and checked over and signed rather than a phone call which is difficult to do... though going by the social media policy if they use anything other than yammer to conduct it, it would be breaking that too since it's not "a secured channel / form of communication" - whatsapp, teams, facebook, etc whether they are indeed encrypted, in tesco's social media policy are deemed to be "non secure" so you've always got that to fall back on too for improper usage of security to conduct stuff.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought all investigation meetings had to be in working hours, you woukd also have the right to a rep, the logistics and principle of ths being facilitated over the phone seems a bit fishy to me, especially when taking into consideration your right to a rep.
Investigation meeting requires you to sign the forms and notes at the end, how does that work over the phone, not only that but I understand an investigation should not take place while off sick, enough here to put a grevince in for breech of proceddings on the companies part, I'm far from one of the anti manager group that tend to post on here but incidents like this do make you ask how it goes wrong so often.
Phone tomorrow, speak to the duty manager and state your request for an adjournment until the meeting can go ahead in store...during your working contracted hours, with a rep present ( if you are a union member) or a trusted colleague to witness the meeting and make notes.
Make a recording of the phone call on another device if necessary, and inform the manager you are recording the conversation.
Make it abundantly clear you are unwell, and unfit to participate in the 'phone investigation'
Meanwhile, contact your other employer and request a written notification from them, that you were not fulfilling your contract with them, as you also registered as " off sick" from that employer.
Quote from: lucgeo on 31-12-21, 06:49PM
Phone tomorrow, speak to the duty manager and state your request for an adjournment until the meeting can go ahead in store...during your working contracted hours, with a rep present ( if you are a union member) or a trusted colleague to witness the meeting and make notes.
Make a recording of the phone call on another device if necessary, and inform the manager you are recording the conversation.
Make it abundantly clear you are unwell, and unfit to participate in the 'phone investigation'
Meanwhile, contact your other employer and request a written notification from them, that you were not fulfilling your contract with them, as you also registered as " off sick" from that employer.
Totally agree this is the best way to move forward, when you finally have the meeting let them do the talking always assume the worst of management ask for witness statements before you answer any of their irrelevant questions as they will try to manipulate the situation and probably mention gross misconduct , ask for anything and everything else they have relevant to the accusation then adjourn the meeting to read all the relevant facts/statements if they have any at all, do not return to the meeting with your answers for at least 24 hours. Believe me I have been through this false accusations c**p with them for different accusations always give yourself time to gather your thoughts and read or look at the accusation/statements it's also good to have other eyes on the facts you have been given. Most important is just to deny the accusation and refuse to explain anything until you have had TIME.
Meetings can be held by phone. Notes are still taken and a copy is posted out to colleague. Colleague can't sign the notes obviously, but it is recorded in the notes that it was held by phone. Rep can still attend, can be with colleague, in store or by phone.
The fact that "they can" does not mean that it must be acceptable to the colleague! The colleague can, and should, insist on an adjournment until they are back in store :-X
I certainly would be highly sceptical to be told that it is acceptable practice. Where is the rep supposed to be? In store or with the colleague at home? Obviously not in the home, due to restrictions so how can they support the colleague fully, when they're not even in eye contact, to assess their response to questions, if they look or act fit to take part, if they are becoming " emotionally flooded" understand the process, read the situation and call an adjournment when required!
Another erosion of the partnership agreement. Obviously looks like the people partners are on their way out??
This is the way other retailers have gone in the past, disciplinary investigations all done from head office, with a telephone call >:( >:( >:(
If MM do phone and ask questions, "no comment at this time, I am not well."
Had a phone call this morning from one of the managers saying they didn't know why I'm off, I have sent all covid related info (had to isolate because my partner tested positive, then I tested positive four days later) had to resend it.
Then another phone call saying the meeting can't go ahead if I'm off, they will send another letter with another date and time.
Thanks everyone
Few things to mention.
You never need mention you are recording the call, it's called party consent as you are making or receiving a call feel free I have an automated device which records every call made through my landline.
Secondly meetings can take place while you're off but only at your request, or in cases where the absence is the matter to investigate, while you are off sick, it's about them being reasonable, however all meetings should take place during your contracted hours, unless you agree otherwise.
Meetings can take place over the phone but you are still entitled to a rep and notes still taken.
Policy dictates you not record that phonecall but the law trumps Tesco, a recording could be submitted as evidence at any particular hearing.
A fit note doesn't exclude you from both workplaces, for example if you are off work at Tesco for work related stress but still feel like going to work at Halfords that's fine, if they disagree ask where in law it's written.
The fact that they arranged a phone investigation while you're off with covid tells us more than anything why would they arrange a phonecall?
If they don't know why you're off it would be a meeting for non notification or AWOL as they call it, which clearly isn't the case
Sounds like a typical tesco s*** show to be honest a manager thinking they're the top dog and you're a lovely peon.
And I love recording their phonecalls, because they hate that there is nothing they can do about it
Your correct there is nothing the managers or Tesco can do about you recording the phone call, however you need to be aware of the main legality around it.
It most be for personal use only.
That means you and only you can listen to it.
If you want to share that recording with anyone else you Must get the other persons permission first.
Failing to do so is committing a criminal offence.
The only exception to that is if an Employment Tribunal or Court of Law decides otherwise depending on the circumstances.
While it's not a criminal offence to record a conversation without telling the other person, they can if they find out take you to the civil courts instead.
We have all probably recorded a call at some point, however as long as you know the pitfalls surrounding it then knock yourself out.
My understanding is you can record the call, the purpose being to play it back to yourself and make a written transcript of what was said during the call. In a hearing you can refer to the written transcript, if the other party denies/disputes anything said during the call you can ask permission to play the recording to prove they are not being truthful.
That never goes down well with the adjudicator/mediator.
I'll clear this up you need either parties consent to record a phone call, a d if its your phone call you have it weather you make or receive the call doesn't matter.
You can use these recording for anything you'd like, I've used recording to complain to regulatory bodies and I've played one out for a magistrate to listen to.
Its completely legal, businesses have additional rules they must adhere to but as a private individual you're free to do pretty much as you please.
Courts of all standing have repeatedly ad itself recorded telephone call provided they have bearing upon the case being heard.
For example when I recorded the agreement for my last mobile phone and they then tried to charge me £14 a month more than was agreed, they couldn't produce a recording but I could and so it had bearing on the case.
Courts will even admit convert recordings of meetings if they have particular bearing, policy be damned.
[gomezz, moderator]Could you tidy up the spelling and the grammar and make sure it says what you mean it to say please? As is stands it does not clear anything up.
Hi I have recently failed a challenge 25 test purchase of buying alcohol. I looked at the person and honestly thought they were 25 so didn't ID. I have just had my disciplinary and they have given me a final written warning. First offence, first ever disciplinary. Never had a let's talk or anything. Surely this is too harsh?
I feel for you and I get where you are coming from, particularly because it was a genuine mistake. However, it is a really serious offence. I used to work in a different supermarket and I have seen a couple of people sacked for it. I knew someone who worked in a Spar about 15 years ago who wasn't sacked but trading standards took her to court and she was given a 12 month conditional discharge and had to pay £800 court fees. The company won't give anything less than a final written for it I'm afraid. Use it as a learning curve and you will be fine. In 12 months it will be behind you.
Quote from: CN2019 on 22-04-23, 01:49PMHi I have recently failed a challenge 25 test purchase of buying alcohol. I looked at the person and honestly thought they were 25 so didn't ID. I have just had my disciplinary and they have given me a final written warning. First offence, first ever disciplinary. Never had a let's talk or anything. Surely this is too harsh?
You could have been sacked.
The kids who come in as the test purchases have to look young ie not even 18. IIRC they are all underage as it is.
Bang to rights.
Solution is ask EVERYONE their age from now on, regardless.
I've never understood how someone can get a final warning on their personal perception of age ??? It's not something you can be trained for!
It's because the store manager is the license holder and covering their own backside!
There should be an option for those who have failed the test to be taken off the checkouts for the following 12 months, so as not to risk losing their job! Those who don't work on checkouts are not at risk of getting this warning as they don't need to challenge, even if they see a customer with alcohol and look underage, they are only advised to question, but mostly don't notice or prefer not to notice!
Quote from: lucgeo on 22-04-23, 04:01PMSolution is ask EVERYONE their age from now on, regardless.
It's because the store manager is the license holder and covering their own backside!
Solution is if in doubt ALWAYS ask for ID and if none available, refuse the sale.
ID requests don't just cover alcohol.
I also hold a personal licence (tho not an SM) and it's not just covering the SM's backside but covering every colleague's backside on checkouts or CSD - and those covering firework sales when necessary. Perhaps a re-read of training regarding sales of products to underage persons might be advisable instead of always slating SMs.
Well obviously CO19 wasn't in doubt...hence the reason didn't ask!
I'm well aware of all the age restrictions for different sales...knives...tobacco...lottery...fireworks...glue...DVD's etc...etc...etc...You can read and re-read every training manual going, but it still doesn't remove the personal perception of a customer's age does it?
Quote from: CN2019 on 22-04-23, 01:49PMHi I have recently failed a challenge 25 test purchase of buying alcohol. I looked at the person and honestly thought they were 25 so didn't ID. I have just had my disciplinary and they have given me a final written warning. First offence, first ever disciplinary. Never had a let's talk or anything. Surely this is too harsh?
to be on the safe side, from now on think 35 or even 40. or even better do what lucgeo suggests. i.d everyone. should be ok then :)
Quote from: lucgeo on 22-04-23, 07:48PMWell obviously CO19 wasn't in doubt...hence the reason didn't ask!
I'm well aware of all the age restrictions for different sales...knives...tobacco...lottery...fireworks...glue...DVD's etc...etc...etc...You can read and re-read every training manual going, but it still doesn't remove the personal perception of a customer's age does it?
rubbish. That is a BS excuse from the OP of this question. The test purchaser has to look proper young. Simply saying "i thought they were 25" is the oldest trick in the book.
The ones that are sent in are over the legal age of whatever they are trying to purchase...but are between that age and 25. Better off just ID'ing everyone you see. One of my managers was caught out with this, the guy looked well over 25 but was 19.
The question that needs to be asked is would a reasonable person agree with you that the purchaser looked over 25....
If in doubt ask for ID and refuse the sale if they can't provide any. Explain to the customer you risk a personal conviction, fine and potential dismissal if you allow the sale to someone under age and you ain't going to take the risk.
You're wrong there GeneralDogsbody , the ones sent in to make a test purchase are UNDER the legal age required for the purchase of whatever it is they are buying . If they weren't then no offense has been committed . For example , the legal age for buying alcohol is 18 , if a customer "looked well over 25 but was 19" there would have been no offence by serving him/her .
Actually Merchman007 in this instance your are wrong.
There's two types of test purchases, this type was the company one I believe due to the fact they haven't mentioned being interviewed and cautioned by the police.
In this type of test purchase the individual Most be over the legal age of whatever they are trying to purchase.
However they do all look young, and definitely do not look like they are over 25, in effect they generally have what people call baby faces!
In this instance it's the company carrying out due diligence and normally some form of warning is given.
The other type of test purchases are those carried out by the Police/Trading Standards, and these individuals Will be under the legal age of the product they are trying to buy.
If you fail this type then your be interviewed by the Police and cautioned while potentially facing fines,criminal convictions and probably dismissal!
As the poster hasn't mentioned anything about being interviewed or cautioned by the Police and only being given a warning by Tesco then it's safe to assume it was the Company test purchase they failed.
Quote from: lucgeo on 22-04-23, 04:01PMSolution is ask EVERYONE their age from now on, regardless.
I've never understood how someone can get a final warning on their personal perception of age ??? It's not something you can be trained for!
It's because the store manager is the license holder and covering their own backside!
There should be an option for those who have failed the test to be taken off the checkouts for the following 12 months, so as not to risk losing their job! Those who don't work on checkouts are not at risk of getting this warning as they don't need to challenge, even if they see a customer with alcohol and look underage, they are only advised to question, but mostly don't notice or prefer not to notice!
I hold a licence too, all managers in my store do and the shift leaders are applying.
The colleagues have a letter held in the safe to say that the store manager gives them permission to sell alcohol on his/her behalf. The audits require the 'Selling Alcohol in Scotland' posters on all tills, along with 'Think 25' posters. The posters being in place are part of the weekly checkout manager weekly checks.
The whole store will have to re-do the Legal 1 training now too.