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Very Little Helps => Stores => Topic started by: ducksquad99 on 31-12-17, 04:38PM

Title: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: ducksquad99 on 31-12-17, 04:38PM
Hello,

I am in the middle of a disciplinary process right now which can include my dismissal from the company. My hearing is very soon and I have already had my investigation meeting. The incident being minor (compared to what I have heard), in my opinion, gives me uncertainty whether I am being dismissed or not. By the time my disciplinary hearing is, the incident would have occurred just about a month ago. I'm slightly annoyed about this given the fact that what I did wasn't horrendously awful and it was pretty clear cut what I did. There isn't much evidence to collect and in my opinion, a decision could have been made in 3 days (a week tops)

I heard about an incident in my store which involved assault and that got dealt with quite quickly (their 'process' happened much quicker) with that person still being instated in the store.

If worst comes to worst and I get dismissed, what will happen regarding references? This being my first job and all, I really do want to put Tesco down on my CV but I am worried about the reference mentioning the reasoning for dismissal or why I have left. I have heard that Tesco and most other companies just put a 'generic reference' detailing time working there and attendance, but I am not sure.

Thanks again,
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: madness on 31-12-17, 05:19PM
Withot giving it away can you give more info as to what you did?
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: FatFraz on 31-12-17, 08:16PM
What happened ducksqaud99? They usually give people chances at Tesco before dismissal-first/final warning etc. It is taking longer for them to deal with incidents because less managers are about. There should be guidelines how long they can take or it is not a fair procedure. Incidents involving suspension/gross misconduct are usually dealt with quicker. For permanent staff member with over 2 years service they have to give a reason for dismissal. For temporary workers they will have to get you back to make sure you receive a letter terminating your employment.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: ducksquad99 on 31-12-17, 10:15PM
Regarding what the incident entailed, I would rather message you privately but can't seem to do that. I don't want to jeopardise the current situation just in case someone here is watching  ???

I do hope it's just a warning though.

Anyway, my disciplinary invitation states gross misconduct so this should have been dealt with quicker rather than nearly waiting a month for an outcome. Not sure if managers are the issue as there is far too many in my store!  :D. ???

Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: FarmerFred on 31-12-17, 10:57PM
The disciplinary policy doesn't give a time frame, but implies that the process should be only as long as it takes to perform the investigation. The delay is probably down to one (or more) of five probable reasons -
1) The manager raising the disciplinary is grossly incompetent
2) No one wants to back the manager up on the matter
3) Everyone has been too busy with Crimbo
4) They are waiting for Crimbo to be over so that they can cut the hr budget in the new year
5) They're keeping an eye on you to see how you behave before making a decision.

If you feel that the investigation period has been too long then you could raise a grievance that the process has put undue stress on you and that you feel that you have not been treated with dignity. I am not sure that it would help your case though as the grievance is a separate matter to the disciplinary.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: ducksquad99 on 31-12-17, 11:45PM
Right okay thanks for clarifying that.

I think I'll just go ahead with the hearing. Is it best to have a union rep with me or would it be of no use?

Regarding reason #5, would that include monitoring me on CCTV?
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: madness on 01-01-18, 04:10AM
gross misconduct is very serious 
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lackofinterest on 01-01-18, 07:28AM
Quote from: ducksquad99 on 31-12-17, 11:45PM
Right okay thanks for clarifying that.

I think I'll just go ahead with the hearing. Is it best to have a union rep with me or would it be of no use?

Regarding reason #5, would that include monitoring me on CCTV?
it is very important that you have somebody in there with you, whether it be a union rep or a trusted work colleague, as a witness. after all they will have 2 or more managers present. good luck with the outcome!
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lucgeo on 01-01-18, 08:13AM
ducksquad999

Have you not had a rep present during the investigation??
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: ducksquad99 on 01-01-18, 09:52AM
I did have the option but I wasn't aware of how this whole process actually worked. I got into the investigation and stated that I actually needed to find a rep in my own time. So instead of prolonging this whole thing I just went without one.

Sort of regret it now as what I said in one particular statement was not written down fully in the investigation notes. So this could actually go against me in the actual thing.

Does anyone know what really happens in the hearing? Don't really know what to expect.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: horatiocain on 01-01-18, 10:23AM
Depending on what the gross misconduct is will depend on how the meeting goes, for example violence would be dismissal, as would theft.
In the meeting they'll go over the investigation and you'll have a chance to clarify what was said, and you'll put your case forward.

Make sure you take someone with you, at a disciplinary hearing anyone can speak for you not just a rep, but reps are normally better, but make sure you have the companion of your choice.

It doesn't necessarily mean you'll be dismissed, you may get anything from a simple warning to unpaid suspension.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Flatout on 01-01-18, 12:58PM
Quote from: ducksquad99 on 31-12-17, 11:45PM
Right okay thanks for clarifying that.

I think I'll just go ahead with the hearing. Is it best to have a union rep with me or would it be of no use?

Regarding reason #5, would that include monitoring me on CCTV?

Tesco cannot monitor you on CCTV as a normal procedure, it's against part of the data protection act - privacy policy. If they want to do this they have to let the employees know it's happening and give a valid reason. If the managers don't do this they may find themselves in disciplinary process. You may want to find out more info from a rep if they are doing this.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: ducksquad99 on 01-01-18, 01:23PM
Okay, I will definitely remember to get a rep next time then. Can't risk it...

I'd like to think they won't dismiss me. I know something in my store which actually involved some serious assault and that was put forward as a discliplinary. That person wasn't dismissed but I would probably imagine they are under heavy scrutiny. What I did came nothing close to that so I have hope, I guess.

I'm not too bothered about getting fired it's just the referencing that I am worried.  :o
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lucgeo on 01-01-18, 02:51PM
ducksquad99

Arrange for a rep, then ask that rep to obtain your notes of the investigation, then together you can go through them, so they can advise on the likely outcome, and point out any discrepancies there may be?

You are allowed time to go through the notes with your rep, in a private room, which can be as long as your rep deems suitable.

CCTV monitoring can not be used for performance monitoring, though I was not aware that they needed to inform a colleague beforehand of monitoring for security reasons??
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: FatFraz on 01-01-18, 03:06PM
Unless you have warnings already or they have lots of evidence the likelihood of you getting dismissed is nothing. I have to seen some very serious incidents and the person has only received a final final warning (yes they even give you several finals) Even with all the chances they give they seem to have the most amounts of unfair dismissal claims. Probably due to them getting themselves in knots and not following procedure.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: horatiocain on 01-01-18, 05:18PM
Cctv can always be used for security, there should be signs saying this posted around the store.
It can only be used to monitor staff if criminal activity is suspected, and should be used only as much as needed to determine guilt.

They cannot monitor worker activity with CCTV unless they put up a notice and even then it must be reasonable.

If they use CCTV during an investigation adjourn the meeting and complain to the information commissioner's office as it's a violation of the code of practice.

There is am exception, if a trained investigator who is licensed to review the footage uses it in their investigation it is perfecrly legitimate,but tesco have no such licenced investigatory department.


Also you are entitled to a copy of the investigation materials to adequately prepare your case, ask for a copy and review their case.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: ducksquad99 on 01-01-18, 08:10PM
In my specific case, there was no CCTV present and so, the evidence solely relies on witness statements.

Bearing that in mind, could they look on CCTV up until the hearing to see if I would do this particular incident again?

It honestly was a very misinformed one off incident.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: FatFraz on 01-01-18, 11:32PM
Witness statements at Tesco  ;D

Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: ducksquad99 on 02-01-18, 01:12AM
I take it you've had experience with the disciplinary process? :D
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: FatFraz on 02-01-18, 04:23AM
No experience this year   ;D

Maybe when i go back the LMs will have some new year targets to meet though   

Manager1 "This is very serious do you need a rep?"
Thebadass  "no"
Manager2 "what was that you just said what do you want me to write?"
M1 "ehh......just write xyz and that should be fine...are we ok to proceed?"

You just knew they'd have you sacked by the end.  :D
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Aunt sally on 02-01-18, 04:31PM
Have you been suspended?
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: ducksquad99 on 02-01-18, 07:45PM
Nope, not at all. The incident occurred nearly a month ago by now.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Charlie Harper on 04-01-18, 04:05PM
I'm not sure how things are in other stores, but from my experience in Tesco 2 people could commit exactly the same offence. 1 person could be very good worker, always on time, a general good egg. The other a little lapse with timekeeping, lacking with work ethic etc etc you get the picture.

The results of their hearing?? The good egg stays, the slacker goes.

Wrong & unfair, yes, but that's sadly how it is (from what I've seen anyway).
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Nomad on 04-01-18, 05:18PM
Perhaps a lot of people would say that that is as it should be, others will no doubt say that on occasions the inverse happens, especially if the 'good egg' is a full time long time served employee.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Me2015 on 04-01-18, 06:37PM
Playing devils advocate here; there needs to be a confidence and trust relationship and whatever you have done, regardless of how you may view it or otherwise, the manager will ask whether they can trust you going forward, should that be no, and as you say, gross misconduct has occurred, then there is only one option, however...

CCTV cannot be used, as already discussed, unless for theft; if it has, then claim for appeal
Timescales seem way off, if any particular reason for this? Are Tesco unable to follow correct process, then appeal

Good luck!
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: rogersmart on 04-01-18, 07:59PM
For goodness sake speak to a rep NOW!  The most significant thing you've told us is that you haven't been suspended - if you were in a Gross Misconduct situation where dismissal was likely they would not want you anywhere near the store.  My guess is that you're going to get a warning (probably a Final Warning if what you did really was Gross Misconduct) but a Rep will be able to make sure you're treated fairly and that the managers are playing by the rules.  The delay is irrelevant as what you are facing relates to whatever happened on day 1. Get a Rep.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: ducksquad99 on 05-01-18, 11:10PM
Okay, is there a way to contact a rep outside of Tesco now? I don't have work till next Tuesday (contracted shift) and usually by then all the reps are gone because it's a late evening shift. So my next option, bearing that in mind, is getting a rep on the day which seems far too risky...
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: ducksquad99 on 05-01-18, 11:34PM
Replying to Me2015,

I think it may have to do with Christmas? Not too sure but gross misconduct is on my disciplinary and according to everyone else, this should have been done quicker. Not too sure, just got to see what happens...

Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lucgeo on 06-01-18, 07:11AM
ducksquad99

'phone your area USDAW office on Monday morning, and ask them to contact your reps to arrange for representation, either by a rep in your store, or from another store. Do you not have a night rep, who is there during your shift to make arrangements for you, and sit down with you to discuss the disciplinary??

Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: stackintheshelves on 06-01-18, 10:58AM
in my experience, the ones that were doomed for whatever reason, always had the same common denominator - ie suspended with pay....if this hasn't happened, i wouldn't worry about dismissal, don't hold me to that though
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: FatFraz on 06-01-18, 12:01PM
Even if you are suspended with pay you will not always be dismissed. Sometimes the Line Managers just want to give the hard workers an extra holiday.  >:D
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: ducksquad99 on 09-01-18, 12:29AM
Spoke to a union rep and this is likely to result in a first warning instead.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: toscozombie on 31-01-18, 06:19PM
Hi I'm trying to ask a question and I am a vlh supporter but can't find how to post but as  this thread contains the words investigation I'm hoping someone can help me.  Is there a time limit between investigation and disciplinary meeting?

I cannot go in to detail as it may identify me .

Any information would be very helpful .
Thanks
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: JL on 31-01-18, 07:38PM
Here is a copy of the disciplinary policy https://cdn.ourtesco.com/2016/04/Disciplinary-Policy-April-16.pdf who knows if it will help. I worked in a store where someone was taken in for investigatory meeting weeks after the alleged incident had taken place. I was once asked if I witnessed an alleged incident in store which happened over a month ago because I was seen on CCTV. I was asked to watch CCTV but I told the managers they were wasting their time as I had not heard or seen anything because I was too busy trying to work. They are slow and it is unfair for the person trying to prove innocence.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: toscozombie on 01-02-18, 07:38PM
Thankyou I had read that document.  but I do appreciate the reply .
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: horatiocain on 02-02-18, 06:31AM
There is a time limit on investigation, 14 days, it should take no longer,unless it necessary for it to take longer, which does not mean they can take a month because the store is busy. Itsi the partnership agreement and any good rep should know.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: FatFraz on 02-02-18, 07:47AM
It can take longer than 14 days if people need interviewed. Best not to get involved with managers/GAs trying to get each other into bother. Take the rap if you remember doing what you are accused of. If not tell them.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: toscozombie on 11-02-18, 07:21PM
Thanks for replies, thing is I had an investigation 3 weeks ago and was told it would go to disciplinary with store manager  and I would receive a letter ..to date nothing, no communication nothing ..is this normal.

I hasten to say if I do get a disciplinary meeting I will appeal as I am completely innocent and believe I have grounds for a grievance,  but I'm  just wondering if they may have realised they have made a mistake and should I just keep quiet.  Any ideas thanks.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Mr McNice on 26-06-18, 05:04PM
Hi, this post contains words that are relevant to my issue, and I see it has been 120 days since the last post which makes me confident I'm not hijacking.

I'm required to attend a disciplinary hearing for gross misconduct, but the way the letter is worded makes me feel it will be a continuation of the investigation, and I'm still not happy with one of the things I stand accused of. The meeting will be heard by a member of senior team (not the store manager) therefore I understand that she is not authorised to carry out a dismissal, but can she escalate it if she feels that I'm not saying the things she wants me to say? By escalating I mean passing it to the store manager.

Regards
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: trolleyboy96 on 26-06-18, 05:31PM
Levels and training has changed, team managers can issue up to final written, any lead team that has done the required training can dismiss, Im lead to believe that team managers can also complete the required training to dismiss, scary times ahead!!


I meant to add, quite a few lead team on our group have been doing the dismissals as it's a new thing the the guidance is they take every opportunity rather than sending to store manager, as the store manager can hear the appeal rather than SD.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Critchly on 29-06-18, 07:08PM
Can anyone tell me the proper procedure for a disciplinary please.
Cos I think my colleague is being screwed over.

Informal meeting with manager A.
3 weeks later,  no follow up meeting regarding planned actions discussed in informal meeting.
Informal meeting with manager B. On Monday.  Cos manager B isn't happy it's not resolved and their going to follow it through properly. Plan put into place for follow up meetings each tue for the foreseeable future until resolved. 
Next Tue no meeting. Handed letter by manager B. Disciplinary meeting Friday. Manager A running meeting manager B note taking and 2nd manager.
Found out union rep off this week.  Told manager A on Wednesday, wanted to reschedule for when union is in. Manager A says they would have to look at when it could be arranged for.
Friday their called into the office, hour late than when letter said. With manager B running the meeting and manager C note taking and 2nd manager.
College says out right the meeting isn't happening without union rep. Told to sit down. Short conversation, meeting is investigation meeting, can only be rearranged 1 time, if they want a union rep, they would have to take what ever union rep is available that day, and manager B would arrange the new meeting.

My colleague is so distressed, and upset. Manager A is a fair manager, manager B just seems to have a list of people they want to get rid of, and manager C is a old school friend of manager B.

The speed at which it's gone to be a disciplinary from informal.
Being told one manager would run it and another does instead.
Being told they can't chose their own rep.

What are the rules and proper procedure because I feel their getting screwed because they don't know or have access to a union rep at the time.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Walker on 29-06-18, 07:21PM
I'm not really sure what the investigation is about but would advise calling up the union in the first instance for help arranging a union representative for the meeting.

I would also call protector line and complain that the company is scheduling investigation meetings when your choice of union representative is on holiday and is refusing to reschedule them for when he/she is available.

What is the investigation about?
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Woodybear on 29-06-18, 07:31PM
You are entitled to adjourn for 7 days for a rep. If they are on a 2 week holiday then it's unlucky but you are still allowed one just have to be someone else
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: JL on 29-06-18, 09:15PM
The hours that go into these investigations is ridiculous. I think the TMs are trying to justify an extra manager.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Critchly on 29-06-18, 09:51PM
Quote from: Walker on 29-06-18, 07:21PM
What is the investigation about?
Things were going on at home which meant they had to go home early for a few weeks randomly/unexpectedly but with duty managers permission each time.
Manager B is never in past 6pm unless it's their compulsory duty manager shift. Most of the time their go home at 3pm. Manager A is the one that looks after the department, even though it's not their department,  during the time after manager B goes home to closing.

3 of the times it was manager A who agreed for them to go home.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Walker on 29-06-18, 10:57PM
Okay, did they leave early again AFTER the last informal meeting between Manager B and the staff member,?
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Critchly on 29-06-18, 11:16PM
Quote from: Walker on 29-06-18, 10:57PM
Okay, did they leave early again AFTER the last informal meeting between Manager B and the staff member,?
I don't think so, but how would that make a difference if they did.
Surely their should have been at least one sit down for a review as outlined as the next corse of action in the meeting with manager B before it went to investigation?
Sorry they have gone home (on time)  and I won't see them till Sunday. So I can't say 100% no. But I don't recall them not being here around the time they are supposed to finish.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lucgeo on 30-06-18, 04:56PM
Hang on....if manager A authorised early leave then why is said manager holding or involved in the meetings?? Why are there any meetings if the colleague had been given permission each time by duty to leave early ???

The only chat that should be taking place is a lets talk, based informally on SYA. Obviously it can't go on indefinitely if the home problems are to continue, but then it should be emphasised on support, dropping hours, changing shifts if able....if the colleague has been given permission on each and every occasion by the duty manager then can't see what there is to investigate, unless they believe that the reason given for early leave isn't genuine ??? But even then it would be a lets talk ???

Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lackofinterest on 30-06-18, 05:26PM
or maybe the said duty manager has denied giving them permission to go early. that wouldnt surprise me one iota >:D
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Critchly on 01-07-18, 11:30PM
Quote from: lucgeo on 30-06-18, 04:56PM
Hang on....if manager A authorised early leave then why is said manager holding or involved in the meetings?? Why are there any meetings if the colleague had been given permission each time by duty to leave early ???

The only chat that should be taking place is a lets talk, based informally on SYA. Obviously it can't go on indefinitely if the home problems are to continue, but then it should be emphasised on support, dropping hours, changing shifts if able....if the colleague has been given permission on each and every occasion by the duty manager then can't see what there is to investigate, unless they believe that the reason given for early leave isn't genuine ??? But even then it would be a lets talk ???

Ok so manager A aparrantly seemed to know of said meeting, but seemed to not be too bothered with it happening, like they weren't the one to arrange it. Well that is what my colleague thinks after they talked with them today. They didn't say it but it came across that way.
Which would make sense with manager B rescheduling with them lead
If the letter handed out said manager A was in charge but manager B took over.  Is that allowed?  Or can they request manager A be lead like originally stated?
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: londoner83 on 02-07-18, 05:58AM
To have an impartial investigation I'd suggest manager A and B was in no way involved.

Manager A is key in your defence as they authorised you leaving early ; and Manager B obviously feels put out by you going early so is unlikely to come to a fair unbiased opinion.

I'd suggest they need Manager C  and  D to come and hear it.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Critchly on 02-07-18, 06:22PM
I completely agree but how would they go about asking for that?  And can they?
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: londoner83 on 02-07-18, 08:00PM
Yes - a key part of the recent management disciplinary training was around impartial meetings.

Ask  for it. They may agree straight away as it's seems a reasonable request if they don't it's another ground to appeal on
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lackofinterest on 18-07-18, 10:53AM
could somebody please tell me if a manager reports you to have an investigation, can that same manager carry out the investigation? if it goes to disciplinary can same manager hold that meeting? i wouldnt have thought so. doesnt seem right to me. thanks
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: claden on 18-07-18, 11:35AM
No the manager who reports you can not carry out an investigation and the manager who carried out the investigation can not carry out the disciplinary.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lackofinterest on 18-07-18, 12:17PM
thanks. is this written anywhere in policy? because if it is then theyve broke the policy and therefore out of process
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: JL on 18-07-18, 12:33PM
They never follow process to the letter in my store and even the company as a whole that is why they have lost so many unfair dismissal claims.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Muppetry on 23-09-18, 08:30PM
First post, so if it's in the wrong place, let me know! I've been contractually dismissed for gross misconduct, and I have appealed. The appeal was set for 4 weeks after my appeal went in, but it's suddenly been delayed. I've been kicked off OurTesco, so can't check, but is there a time limit that they have to hear it in? And if it's gross misconduct they were looking at, should I have been suspended? Thanks...
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: oldfashionedplayer on 23-09-18, 08:51PM
not entirely sure, from what I've found the appeal can be made up to 14 days after the outcome, and they are supposed to have an impartial manager meet with you and hear what you have to say usually within 14 days, 28 days for demotion or dismissal and if it's been scheduled longer than that or pushed back you should be notified of the date, but there should be a justifiable reason for it according to what it says...

Depending on the meeting with the appeals person will determine if the outcome originally was too harsh and you could be reinstated or lower punishment, or they could agree it was right and then you're basically screwed and out of the company.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Rad on 24-09-18, 09:16AM
Quote from: Muppetry on 23-09-18, 08:30PM
First post, so if it's in the wrong place, let me know! I've been contractually dismissed for gross misconduct, and I have appealed. The appeal was set for 4 weeks after my appeal went in, but it's suddenly been delayed. I've been kicked off OurTesco, so can't check, but is there a time limit that they have to hear it in? And if it's gross misconduct they were looking at, should I have been suspended? Thanks...
No you don't have to be suspended in potential gross misconduct cases.  Your rep should be able to help you.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Jangelmz on 06-04-19, 11:13AM
Hi guys,

I've just been dismissed for gross misconduct and I'm wondering if they still have to pay me for my remaining holidays? Looked up the government website and it states they do but I'm hoping someone has experience with it or can tell me for sure :)
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: 80377494 on 06-04-19, 12:31PM
Jangelmz

The new holiday year started on the 01 April 2019 so you'll have only earned about one day holiday.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: madness on 06-04-19, 02:55PM
Gross misconduct is very serious and not taken lightly. What have the above two people done that they think they have been too harshly punished?
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 04:56PM
Hey guys I need some help
I've been suspended pending and investigation and I've got my hearing tomorrow
Allegation of sexual harassment. Can I get dismissed for that or will my job be safe. I am a Harding working staff whose always on time and give 100% to everything what the store manager wants. Need to ASAP
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lackofinterest on 13-06-19, 05:13PM
if somebody has complained you sexually harrassed them and it is proven beyond probability then it is very likely you will be dismissed. no easier way to put it sorry

Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 05:16PM
Literally can't do anything about it even if I didn't get any warnings at all
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lackofinterest on 13-06-19, 05:19PM
if no witnesses were present best thing to do is deny everything in my opinion. some people would claim sexual harrassment if you put your arm around their shoulder for example.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lackofinterest on 13-06-19, 05:22PM
Quote from: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 05:16PM
Literally can't do anything about it even if I didn't get any warnings at all
it's classed as gross misconduct so no previous warnings are neccessary
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 05:25PM
The thing is they have proof so literally I done whatever happens
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 05:26PM
Apparently it was through what's app it all happen I did not touch her at any point and I didn't make her uncomfortable
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 05:30PM
She can only prove it through messages nothing else
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lackofinterest on 13-06-19, 05:33PM
if the messages are sexually harrassing then i dont think you have a leg to stand on.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 05:35PM
They are not she just laughs every time I make a joke ok I do be rude but who doesn't
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lackofinterest on 13-06-19, 05:45PM
some people take offence, some don't. this one obviously does. as she's reported you for it then i suspect they will take her side. you have to be very careful what you say to certain people these days. i for one don't communicate with any work colleagues through social media
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 05:49PM
So I need help what shall I do to save my job
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Preacherpauly on 13-06-19, 05:52PM
Quote from: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 05:26PM
Apparently it was through what's app it all happen I did not touch her at any point and I didn't make her uncomfortable

LOL

Obviously you did as you are going in to a disciplinary meeting.

Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lucgeo on 13-06-19, 05:54PM
Please don't use that rude excuse as your defence in the investigation and certainly don't agree you think it's rude! At any time during the text exchanges, did she indicate that she was offended, upset, asked you to stop texting her, or ceased to reply. You said she just laughed...was this LOL, laughing emoji ,both, or other forms of abbreviations to indicate she found your texts funny? Did she reply in the same vein, with suggestive remarks or encourage you in any way??
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 06:02PM
No every time I crack a joke she literally has a laughing emoji I did not touch her at any point I've been nice to her. I wouldn't hurt anyone
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 06:05PM
And she's the one who kept on texting me
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Preacherpauly on 13-06-19, 06:08PM
Quote from: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 06:02PM
No every time I crack a joke she literally has a laughing emoji I did not touch her at any point I've been nice to her. I wouldn't hurt anyone

You don't have to touch someone to sexually harass them. Here are some instances:


Sexual harassment includes many things...

· Actual or attempted rape or sexual assault.
· Unwanted pressure for sexual favors.
· Unwanted deliberate touching, leaning over, cornering, or pinching.
· Unwanted sexual looks or gestures.
· Unwanted letters, telephone calls, or materials of a sexual nature.
· Unwanted pressure for dates.
· Unwanted sexual teasing, jokes, remarks, or questions.
· Referring to an adult as a girl, hunk, doll, babe, or honey.
· Cat calls.
· Sexual comments.
· Turning work discussions to sexual topics.
· Sexual innuendos or stories.
· Asking about sexual fantasies, preferences, or history.
· Personal questions about social or sexual life.
· Sexual comments about a person's clothing, anatomy, or looks.
· Telling lies or spreading rumors about a person's personal sex life

Obviously she has shown the text messages to the manager and they feel they have a strong case to investigate. Take a rep in with you.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: NightAndDay on 13-06-19, 06:12PM
Quote from: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 06:05PM
And she's the one who kept on texting me

If you can prove with the texts that they aren't sexual in nature of if was that it wasn't rejected or unwanted, it will throw the investigation out/being a significant mitigating factor on disciplinary given.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 06:12PM
I understand that but with my one it wasn't just me in the group chat it was 6 of us and I'm the only who gets investigated I don't know why everyone else in the group chat where literally roasting her but I'm the one who gets reported.
I've been told if it's not that serious I could only get a warning or even a final warning that's why I've got the investigation meeting soon
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lackofinterest on 13-06-19, 06:22PM
if other people in the chat have made sexual remarks and you are the only one she has reported then it's obvious she's not worth talking to or going anywhere near. bit late for that now though. just learn from your mistakes
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 06:23PM
Ye mate thanks for the advice
I am learning from this never to trust anyone again
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lackofinterest on 13-06-19, 06:43PM
in my store there is only one person i can trust to say anything to and it won't go further. the only people you can really trust are true friends and family. tosco is rife for people trying to drop others in it and not being able to mind their own business. if you lose your job over this it could be a blessing in disguise mate. in future i advise you not to get involved on social media, etc with work colleagues. that's all they are work colleagues, nothing more nothing less!
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 07:25PM
I have learnt my lesson keep things to myself unless I'm really close to someone
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lucgeo on 13-06-19, 09:13PM
A group chat should result in a group investigation.....if, what you say is true, then you need to be asking them why you are being singled out for the investigation? If you have the texts, and her responses, and they're all as you state, then really she could end up in a lot of trouble...just because you have been accused and are being investigated, does not mean you have no rights.

Do you have representation in this meeting?
Have you spoken to a rep?
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: NightAndDay on 13-06-19, 09:14PM
Quote from: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 06:12PM
I understand that but with my one it wasn't just me in the group chat it was 6 of us and I'm the only who gets investigated I don't know why everyone else in the group chat where literally roasting her but I'm the one who gets reported.
I've been told if it's not that serious I could only get a warning or even a final warning that's why I've got the investigation meeting soon

If the others made remarks equally as "roasting" as yours on the chat, and you're the only one that's getting investigated for it, then the investigating/disciplining manager will be in a very legally dubious position if you do get dismissed, unfair dismissal will be a valid claim due to yourself being subject to harsher disciplinary measures for the same act of misconduct as others in your store, you just need to make sure it is documented that others in the chat made equally serious remarks.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lucgeo on 13-06-19, 09:21PM
Are you certain nobody else involved in this chat, are being investigated??
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 09:39PM
Yep I'm certain like literally I've got a mortgaged to pay so if I lose this job that's it I'm finished
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 13-06-19, 09:42PM
I have a colleague representing me and it's only a investigation meeting not a disicplinary hearing. I can't afford to lose this job because I have a mortgaged to pay. If I lose this job I will commit suicide.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lucgeo on 13-06-19, 10:08PM
If you are a union member, I urge you to take a rep in with you...if your colleague is to be your representative, then that colleague should be recognised as your chosen representative, and therefore, under ACAS ruling, has the same rights as a shop steward. The manager will state that your colleague is unable to speak, this is incorrect...they can speak and ask questions and adjourn the meeting, but they cannot answer questions in place of you.

Do not undermine the importance of this investigation meeting, state your case clearly, show your evidence by way of the texts. Question why you are being singled out for investigation. Read all notes thoroughly, the slightest omission should be rectified. Do not answer or ask any questions until they start note taking....the note taker is not allowed to ask you any questions, or make any comments or opinions regarding the accusation during the meeting. If they do, clearly state that you object to their speaking and ask for their comments made and your reply to be recorded in the notes....do not sign them if it is not included.

I sincerely hope that your suicide comment, is a knee jerk reaction statement and not true intent.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: NightAndDay on 13-06-19, 11:24PM
Look at it from 2 positive angles, either as a result of this investigation, you'll either keep your job, or you get fired with which you can pursue an unfair dismissal claim which, if you win will get you enough money to last you for a long time while you find another job.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: StoreManager on 14-06-19, 01:25PM
What's happening bounceyball?
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 14-06-19, 01:39PM
My meeting is at 14 and I'm literally stressing over this situation like I didn't do anything wrong. OK I said things I shouldn't have said, but it's not like I attacked her in anyway and she's making out that I attacked her really.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: StoreManager on 14-06-19, 01:55PM
We all say and do things we later regret any reasonable person would just give you an earful and send you back to work. No need for endless investigations or disciplinary.  Let us know how it goes.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 14-06-19, 02:05PM
I will do mate
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 14-06-19, 04:31PM
Apparently they have like 3 witness statement saying I did some of the things I've denied majority of it so fingers cross everything will be alright
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lucgeo on 14-06-19, 06:03PM
And did you ask for the names of these three witnesses? What do you mean "did" some of the things, was it texting or did you actually "do" something to this person ???
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 14-06-19, 06:35PM
No I didn't and I did ask for there names
I was just texting
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lucgeo on 14-06-19, 06:57PM
And did they give you the names??
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 14-06-19, 09:50PM
Yep I got the names these allegations are truly false
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 14-06-19, 10:32PM
It's basically 1 person being influenced by 2 other witnesses
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: StoreManager on 15-06-19, 09:04AM
[admin]Please make your posts more relevant to the topics you are posting in. Nomad[/admin]
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 15-06-19, 08:56PM
I need some help guys. What happens if they have 3 witness statements and no evidance can I still get dismissed
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: NightAndDay on 15-06-19, 09:56PM
If the allegations are surrounding the texts you made in a group chat, then the evidence is self preserved the witness statements are pointless, furthermore if the "witnesses" are the members of the group chat, then they're thick as pig muck as they're also implicating themselves which means the investigation manager has to either raise it to a group investigation or drop it completely.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: BounceyBall on 17-06-19, 07:18PM
I've been interviewed for about a good 2 hours and then they re-suspended me until Tuesday for the interview to continue, are they allowed to do that spend so long on the interview ?
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: NightAndDay on 17-06-19, 08:04PM
They can as long as it's with pay.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: StoreManager on 17-06-19, 08:32PM
Spending 2 hours interviewing you seems ott. From what you say the case seem straight forward as does any evidence. Prolonging it further doesn't seem fair for those concerned (you). How are you the only one being investigated I would be asking when you say others were having having a go at her.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Preacherpauly on 17-06-19, 10:13PM
Quote from: BounceyBall on 15-06-19, 08:56PM
I need some help guys. What happens if they have 3 witness statements and no evidance can I still get dismissed

Are you being truthful about its only been text messages? What are all 3 saying you did? Have you been saying things to her at work away as well as the messages?

For them to be taking so long then maybe its something more, as you said it was only a group whatapp chat and surely they have seen the messages of her lol replies as you say.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Tinkerbell1975 on 06-10-19, 04:46PM
After some clarification on the dismissal process please. If a manager from another store is brought in to make the meeting "impartial", should the note taker also come from another store? Especially if the end result of meeting is dismissal from company? Any thoughts welcome.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lordadmiral on 06-10-19, 08:49PM
Note taker can be local his/her presence its just to write down what is said not to judge you.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Redshoes on 07-10-19, 07:46AM
As above, note taker does not take an active role in decisions. Is only to take notes. However, it might have been better but falls within nice to have and not must.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: penguin on 07-10-19, 09:45AM
No as the note taker should not be taking any part in the meeting, other than of course writing notes. The only exception is the note taker can ask someone to repeat themselves if they need to clarify what had just been said, to ensure the notes are correct.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Jobless on 07-10-19, 11:19AM
Quote from: Preacherpauly on 17-06-19, 10:13PM
Quote from: BounceyBall on 15-06-19, 08:56PM
I need some help guys. What happens if they have 3 witness statements and no evidance can I still get dismissed

Are you being truthful about its only been text messages? What are all 3 saying you did? Have you been saying things to her at work away as well as the messages?

For them to be taking so long then maybe its something more, as you said it was only a group whatapp chat and surely they have seen the messages of her lol replies as you say.

They could have 3000 witness statements the chances are none of the stories will be consistent, some will be part truth and tale and some will contain inappropriate a biased content. Yes the SM could sack you by rational but the chances are a lawyer would consider it unfair dismisal. My rational is those conducting the dsciplinary should be disciplined for taking all this time. Why would you give a manager a witness statement against another collegue anyway. Do some work and go home!
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: NightAndDay on 07-10-19, 02:11PM
As said earlier, if the witnesses were part of the misconduct then the SM will either have to do a group disciplinary or drop the investigation, one of the defining situations of unfair dismissal is being sacked for something that others have taken part in and have not received equivalent treatment, either the punishment is equal or it's unfair. (Not taking into account disciplinary record).
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Biglove on 10-04-22, 11:10AM
Hi does anyone have a link to an upto date version of the disciplinary procedure? Please
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Redshoes on 11-04-22, 03:57AM
Everybody does, al under colleague help. There is a lot of stuff available, you will have to narrow it down a bit.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: horatiocain on 11-04-22, 08:32AM
14 days, and you can't see it because it's only written in the partnership agreement, which you are free to ask for a copy of, but good luck getting a full copy.

The policy only states a reasonable time, which considering tesco managers reasonable that could be a decade.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Darkjester19951 on 25-05-22, 06:05PM
Sorry to revive but just wondering is it acceptable for a stores cash admin colleague to hand deliver a invite to disciplinary to my address?
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: lucgeo on 25-05-22, 08:13PM
If they're a GA...not management then NO!!! :-X  :-X
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: genome on 25-05-22, 09:55PM
absolutrly not, also gdpr with them being given your address
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Darkjester19951 on 25-05-22, 11:30PM
anyone got a link to policy maybe? just want to provide some cover for myself in the meeting that i am not going to attend due to it not being during my scheduled hours which by the look of things is also not policy.
Title: Re: How long is a disciplinary/dismissal process really meant to take?
Post by: Sherwoodforest on 26-05-22, 05:21AM
@darkjester all policies are on our tesco,under colleague help,,never heard of meetings being done on unscheduled shifts before as you may have other obligations elsewere,but you should ring number(usually provided) of non attendance,under data protection law im not sure giving a colleague your address to deliver a letter is acceptable anymore,letter should state facts on it around disciplanary i think