I'm looking for advice regarding dignity at work, I had a bust up with someone and called them a f*#*ing as*#ole, this happened in mid May and I was sat down regarding this today. Is that the correct procedure regarding this??
When you say you were sat down regarding it, was this a formal investigation meeting with a notetaker ?
No my manager sat me down and gave me a let's talk, 2day is the first I knew anything about it but they had a statement from the person and a witness.
Nobody is given a lets talk as such, its not a warning or punishment it is simply a record of a conversation although I'm aware that they are often viewed and used as such. Assuming the matter is being taken no further and the lets talk was just a record of the conversation your manager had with you about the incident then yes correct process has been followed.
So an incedent that happened nearly 3 months ago I could've been disciplined for if my manager hadn't decided not to take it any further, surely that's not right, I was never spoken to or had a statement taken or made aware what was happening.
Why should there be a time limit on disciplining someone for bullying?
Maybe the victim didn't feel comfortable coming forward until now? On wanted to let it go at the time but now feels like it could be an ongoing issue that needed to be informally addressed
Treat people with dignity at work and you have nothing to worry about
"Treat people with dignity at work and you have nothing to worry about" said that to MM a few times.
Bit of a victim complex nomad.
[admin]Two sides to every coin.[/admin]
There's a lot of sense in it, aside from the obvious, not treating people with dignity at work is legally ill advised.
Quote from: spike_pkh on 01-08-21, 07:01PM
Why should there be a time limit on disciplining someone for bullying?
Maybe the victim didn't feel comfortable coming forward until now? On wanted to let it go at the time but now feels like it could be an ongoing issue that needed to be informally addressed
Treat people with dignity at work and you have nothing to worry about
There was no bullying involved, yes I lost my temper and called him that but this is someone I have known for years who took the huff as I raised an issue with them, regarding them coming forward they gave a statement 2 days after the incident in may but I wasn't made aware of this until yesterday.
Did your colleague give the statement off their own bat or did some third party stick their neb in and told the manager of the incident?
To be honest I'm not sure, I did not know anything about it being reported until yesterday.
Few times i called people useless, idiots and go on. No disciplinary just lets talk.
If my memory serves me right in past years there have been court cases over language used in the workplace and in many of them the judge put it down to 'factory floor' language and dismissed the case/claim.
As long as it is not within earshot of customers the same could be said of 'retail floor' language.
Working class (hate that phrase >:( ) do not, in a heated argument/discussion, address each other as "my esteemed colleague", or anything like it.
The point in these cases is whether the language used erodes the trust and relationship held between employer and employee. There's a mass of other legislation that may also be breached in the event of bullying, such as victimisation, retaliation and <insert protected characteristic here> discrimination and duty of care laws.
Dignity at work suggests either a manager has broken confidentiality (and therefore GDPR) of an employees confidential information or bullied/harrasssd them in such a way that it falls under any of the categories I stated in the first paragraph.
Blue collar colloquialism is legally fine as long as nobody is offended by it.
This is one reason I speak as little as possible to both colleagues and customers. The less you say, the less chance there is of getting into trouble.
(The other reason is I'm an INTJ (https://www.verywellmind.com/intj-introverted-intuitive-thinking-judging-2795988), and tend to view humans less as people than self-propelled Chess pieces. >:D)
I was going to say if you're an INTJ you wouldn't be working at Tesco, but I know full well you have intelligent employees below the management level as I was one myself, if anything, intelligence is what stops you making the manager ranks. And with no jobs out there, you're going through the unpleasantness of being dictated to by a warm body whose brain is potato powered, I've endured that circle of hell for long enough, hopefully you'll be liberated from your economically enforced kakistocracy sooner rather than later.
Grown men bragging about a glorified personality quiz, that s*** is tragic.
If it come to verbal abuse which amount to harrasement then yes there are laws in place. But only to be.
My life experience with receiving abuse is that police doesn't give a f*** although it's their job.
So i do not belive that if any of us will be pulled to responsibility for anything we say. Unless you will say you plan to blow up something ;D
The police won't do anything as they'll see it as a civil case not a criminal one, with this you'll have to be your own enforcer of justice, document, duplicate, grievance and tribunal.
Quote from: NightAndDay on 02-08-21, 08:55PM
I was going to say if you're an INTJ you wouldn't be working at Tesco, but I know full well you have intelligent employees below the management level as I was one myself, if anything, intelligence is what stops you making the manager ranks. And with no jobs out there, you're going through the unpleasantness of being dictated to by a warm body whose brain is potato powered, I've endured that circle of hell for long enough, hopefully you'll be liberated from your economically enforced kakistocracy sooner rather than later.
The lack of intellect required for my job is actually quite relaxing. I can happily do my entire shift on auto-pilot, while my brain gets on with planning world domination. ;)
Quote from: alf on 02-08-21, 09:25PM
Grown men bragging about a glorified personality quiz, that s*** is tragic.
Don't feel bad; not everyone can be born into the Master Race. By definition, the elite is not attainable by everyone.
I promise, you will still be able to serve your betters in the New World Order. >:D
Honestly vlady baby I'm surprised you of all people would buy into this INTJ and the whole MyersBriggs Type Indicator nonsense, I mean I'd expect it from nightandday that poor man is desperate for self validation. But you vlad? sucking the teat of the human resources, disappointing.
Afterall who do you think uses this nonsense, middle management, the same people you spend your time berating, yet here you are on your knees with a dirty mouth, all proud of the personality you've been given.
ps. Your personality was created by a housewife and her daughter, so enjoy.
pps. The bigger question is, which little mix member are you https://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/quizzes/which-member-of-little-mix-are-you I got perrie :-[
And back to the topic of Dignity at work.
Tesco uses the term dignity at work as an umbrella term and takes it very seriously as a grievance alluding to it could potentially cost them in the millions depending on the specifics.
Dignity at work violations include any form of discrimination, bullying, retaliation, harrassment etc etc, just google NHS racial discrimination, the claimant got awarded over 7 figures and compensation. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jan/09/nhs-manager-race-discrimination-case
There you go OP, you should grievance this let's talk because some bloke back in 2012 won a racial discrimination case against the NHS ( and you complained about me being off topic nomad :P).
Alternatively back in the land of sanity reread penguins post, he's absolutely spot on. You have essentially nothing to grievance against, you've "received" a recorded conversation over an incident, that's all.
You'll get used to the usual culprits who fantasize over all these grand things that could happen if you did this or that, it's revenge fantasy from people who are perpetually obsessed with tesco.
At this stage, as penguin alluded to, it's wait and see, if this doesn't progress past let's talk, then forget it. If it progresses to the investigation/disciplinary stages and you feel it's being done maliciously then absolutely escalate to grievance.
I'm more interested in if Tesco followed the proper process as I never had a statement taken at time the incident was reported, I didn't know it had been reported until 3 months later, I've never experienced anything disciplinary wise so don't know how it should've been handled
Yes the correct process was followed, did you ask the manager who spoke to you why it's taken almost three months for you to be spoken to, it makes no difference but there could well be a good explanation, and given the matter had been resolved in Tesco policy informally there is no need for you to give a statement, you've admitted in your first post you did what your accused off, it's been resolved assuming the let's talk is the end of the matter informally, my advice would be to forget a grievance as no manger will uphold it under the circumstances.
My prior post was to inform, not advise, dignity at work grievances aren't limited to deviations from the process (a lets talk by itself isn't a dignity at work violation). If you are being bullied, harrassed, victimised, excluded or being subject to any form of protected characteristic apartheid that would fall under a dignity at work grievance.
An investigation/disciplinary/lets talk process doesn't have to have happened for one to have occurred.
But as with all grievances, you'll need evidence (whether documentation or witnesses) to go forward with it.
Quote from: Zoomer999 on 01-08-21, 02:14PM
I'm looking for advice regarding dignity at work, I had a bust up with someone and called them a f*#*ing as*#ole, this happened in mid May and I was sat down regarding this today. Is that the correct procedure regarding this??
Think yourself lucky that your manager is a weak fool. If you were one of my workers you'd have been gone within the hour.
There is no room for foul language from staff. It's bad enough we have to put up with the accents and scruffy appearance. Gone are the days when Tesco staff looked smart and spoke with decorum.
When I joined we only took people on who were professional. I had my own rule "if they wouldn't get a job in a five star hotel they're not joining my team"
Sadly nowadays we seem to accept any old s***.
While I agree foul language is not acceptable at work its hardly a sacking matter for a one off offence is it and on the appearance point Its a supermarket for crying out loud, not sure what branch you worked in back in the day but a very different one to the ones I have, yes standards were a bit higher for example men would be wearing a shirt and tie, no bright green hair for example but times have changed now and I know some people will disagree but I for one think its better now people can turn up for working and express themselves more.
Quote from: Nowanexmgr on 21-08-21, 07:27PM
Quote from: Zoomer999 on 01-08-21, 02:14PM
I'm looking for advice regarding dignity at work, I had a bust up with someone and called them a f*#*ing as*#ole, this happened in mid May and I was sat down regarding this today. Is that the correct procedure regarding this??
Think yourself lucky that your manager is a weak fool. If you were one of my workers you'd have been gone within the hour.
There is no room for foul language from staff. It's bad enough we have to put up with the accents and scruffy appearance. Gone are the days when Tesco staff looked smart and spoke with decorum.
When I joined we only took people on who were professional. I had my own rule "if they wouldn't get a job in a five star hotel they're not joining my team"
Sadly nowadays we seem to accept any old s***.
The way the world works is you get what you pay for. Tesco was competitive in terms of pay and perks back then with a more robust structure, worse compensation means less loyalty from staff meaning an increased demand on recruitment efforts meaning a strict recruitement criteria would be counterproductive if staff turnover behaves in a revolving door fashion.. Nowadays it's ran purely for the purpose of cost effectiveness, the professional aspect that was emboldened by the more robust structure and knowledgable staff has been cost cut to nothing, Tesco would rather the absence of professionalism if it saved them a few quid in the short term.
Never mind colleagues effing and blinding, there are plenty of numpty cowboy managers who behave the same, it is unacceptable from anyone and depending on the seriousness is potentially gross misconduct worthy (I would say it's more serious if a manager behaves in this way due to the expectations of standards being higher as they're paid more.)
We had a very high standard of applicants for our most recent low contract temp jobs. Coming out of COVID has changed things. People were just glad not to get zero hours contracts. They may not stay forever but not many places are taking on just now.
As far as language in the workplace goes. It does not offend me but I don't swear myself. It's more the tone and the intention. If in a harsh hostile tone and against someone who might be offended it's totally different to it being said in banter. From what the poster has said it was said in frustration so assume it was said harshly but it's hard to grasp the tone and intention when written down.
If said on shop floor and within hearing of customers it is never acceptable.
This would solely be due to the aberration to the job market caused by the pandemic, a lot of these temp workers were furloughed from their main job so are picking up temp work as an income booster.
The job market will favour Tesco and other Retailers in the medium term due to HGV drivers demand being sky high and supply and demand meaning they'll need to be paid commensurately, meaning more cost cutting elsewhere in the business to make up the short fall, and this will most likely come from forecasted hours and maybe head office jobs being stripped out. But even with this being the case, professional people will be back to their main jobs by now meaning the calibre of applicants will be back to mainly 18 year olds who don't know their elbow from their behind for the few if any job vacancies available from this.
I wouldn't be so sure. The pandemic has caused lots of people to change job or look for something more stable, which tesco for all its faults broadly is. I know lots of people who do a couple of days at Tesco plus something else that's freelance/variable hours/insecure etc so they can have some semblance of security.
It will also depend on where you live. We are not a big city. There are no express sites in my group and only four metro stores. Most people in the area my shop is either work off shore or have family members that do. The off shore jobs have suffered badly during COVID. We are not within the drive time limit for depots. Our grocery delivery comes up by rail and just does the last part of the journey by road. This depot is not one owned by us.
As far as people knowing nothing, that is generally the situation with new colleagues. Sometimes there are colleagues who don't intend to spend more than a short period of time with the company but that does not mean they are not good workers. If the students you have worked with are of low standard I would say that is more of an interview issue. This is not always the case but if you have experienced a high level I would suggest that this could be the case or it's a training issue.
To be fair, the location I worked in is the 2nd most expensive area in the UK, all the students were pampered by their parents, were unreliable and I suspect nearly all of them did class As, however, they were also 90% of people who applied. Recruitment can be very challenging based on location, I remember one time I had to deal with a call from this girls mother after I caught her snorting a line of what I assume to be cocaine in the staff room, she got dismissed for gross misconduct, the day after her mother called me and berated me,I gave her a stern talking to about how she's failed as a parent, she complained about that to Tesco customer care, suffice to say she wasn't happy when the police got involved lol.