Can anyone explain why full time Managers are contracted to a minimum 36hrs per week but scheduled to 37.5hrs. Does it happen in all stores? This equates to approx £1000 per year of unpaid time.
There seem to be various replies when this topic is raised in store...
Its always been like that
In dim and distant past Managers had a short day but that was done away with
Contract says a Minimum of 36hrs
They aren't scheduled to 37.5 hrs or shouldn't be anyway.
When people say short day was done away with they may be referring to guidance that full timers shift patterns be changed so that 4 days a week they finish 15 mins early.
Managers should be working a minimum of those hours as you say.
Ask to be scheduled or just request the time back as days of etc.but don't let it build up for months or years before you raise it.
Always been the case that managers work 5 shifts and theoretically one should be classed an early day, ie 4x7.5 then 1x6 to give the 36hr contract, however over time the expectation from store managers was this rule is not to be implemented thus you working for free over the year!
I always took my early day, got me in trouble at times however my case was always the fact my weekly role was completed so no need for me to be in any longer than needed, and I urge everyone, who isn't a brown nose, to do the same!
Any push back from your manager could be seen as bullying....
Request the extra hours as payment on work and pay
If they pay, happy days!
If not, don't work it
Quote from: Rad on 22-05-21, 08:30AM
They aren't scheduled to 37.5 hrs or shouldn't be anyway.
I have worked in 2 stores both schedule Managers to 37.5hrs. I have spoken with Managers in neighbouring stores and they too are scheduled to 37.5. I therefore think this is the norm and am trying to prove it as I defo agree that Managers shouldn't be scheduled to 37.5hrs.
Quote from: Me2015 on 22-05-21, 09:14AM
Always been the case that managers work 5 shifts and theoretically one should be classed an early day, ie 4x7.5 then 1x6 to give the 36hr contract, however over time the expectation from store managers was this rule is not to be implemented thus you working for free over the year!
I always took my early day, got me in trouble at times however my case was always the fact my weekly role was completed so no need for me to be in any longer than needed, and I urge everyone, who isn't a brown nose, to do the same!
Any push back from your manager could be seen as bullying....
I think the issue I have raised is, likely, company wide and has been going on for years. When the issue has been raised Store Managers/ PM's/Lead Team all have different answers yet all in one way or another support the status quo. I know in one store the claim to work 36hrs was flatly rejected.
Conversely to peoples statements here, I know of a few instances where SMs are doing half their contracted hours because their store is a diddle to manage. Though in one case, an SM got read the riot act by the AM because of a grievance from an SL of the SM not doing his contracted hours.
I think the key here is autonomy and managing expectations. Tesco may very well have their own KPIs for how long something takes, but a business requirements analysis from an external group could discredit that.
The fact that managers are seemingly on the system to do 37.5 hours on a 36 hour a week contract says to me there's quite a strong case for a legal challenge.
I agree re legal challenge. Just trying to get ducks in a row and then find out how to proceed. Weirdly from my experience part time managers just do there contracted hrs, work that out if you can 8-)
"It's good for your development". ;)
Quote from: NightAndDay on 22-05-21, 06:16PM
Conversely to peoples statements here, I know of a few instances where SMs are doing half their contracted hours because their store is a diddle to manage. Though in one case, an SM got read the riot act by the AM because of a grievance from an SL of the SM not doing his contracted hours.
I think the key here is autonomy and managing expectations. Tesco may very well have their own KPIs for how long something takes, but a business requirements analysis from an external group could discredit that.
The fact that managers are seemingly on the system to do 37.5 hours on a 36 hour a week contract says to me there's quite a strong case for a legal challenge.
Morally yes, your right it 'should' have rise to legal implications, however 'legally' it does not, and trust me I know, plus the fact it's been going on for so long without question gives emphasis to Tesco that's it's just a contractual 'as and when' situation
To be honest I've worked in about 8 large format stores, and helped out in many others and I've never seen a Section/Line or Team Manager Rota that schedules Managers to 37.5 hours per week.
It's always been Early, In or Late shift, with the odd 10-7 or 11-8 thrown in for support on rare occasions or Xmas.
Now the Old Section/Line Manager and current Team Managers contracts did and do state a minimum of 36 hours a week.
Most of the managers in my current store do 36 hours most weeks myself included, apart from the Fresh manager, who is extremely poor at time management and ends up working on average 10 hours per day.
Our Checkout manager effectively strolls in whenever they feel like it when down for an In shift, but will always complete 36 hours per week and very rarely does more unless there's been issues on their department that couldn't be dealt with, but will always take the time back that week or the next.
And has always done that no matter the SM or LT in store.
At the end of the day Team managers are managers and should be able to manage their own working time!
Yes on occasions they will end up doing more than 36 hours but that shouldn't be the normal.
And yes some managers will just do 9 hours each day because it's just easier or forget about the so called early day.
Even the new Team managers contracts state your working hours each day, which while doesn't give you the 1 hour early day each week, does state that your working shifts each day are less than 9 hours(including breaks).
If you are regularly working more than 36 hours per week, then first question your time management, and if you can honestly say that's fine, then just do the 36 hours per week regardless of what your SM/LM puts on a rota, however make sure your actually performing and completing all your Team Manager role.
And that includes, Team 5 for your colleagues, any Training that needs doing etc.
The amount of Managers that fall down on the basics like that is unbelievable, and they then wonder why they end up on performance management.
From what I have seen in stores it's just the start time that is put on the rota. After that it's up to you to manage your day. When we move nearer to the new structure there may be times that the sums just don't add up. If there is not a mid manager in there is a gap in the middle of the day.
Quote from: Morris999 on 22-05-21, 11:55PM
To be honest I've worked in about 8 large format stores, and helped out in many others and I've never seen a Section/Line or Team Manager Rota that schedules Managers to 37.5 hours per week.
It's always been Early, In or Late shift, with the odd 10-7 or 11-8 thrown in for support on rare occasions or Xmas.
Now the Old Section/Line Manager and current Team Managers contracts did and do state a minimum of 36 hours a week.
Most of the managers in my current store do 36 hours most weeks myself included, apart from the Fresh manager, who is extremely poor at time management and ends up working on average 10 hours per day.
Our Checkout manager effectively strolls in whenever they feel like it when down for an In shift, but will always complete 36 hours per week and very rarely does more unless there's been issues on their department that couldn't be dealt with, but will always take the time back that week or the next.
And has always done that no matter the SM or LT in store.
At the end of the day Team managers are managers and should be able to manage their own working time!
Yes on occasions they will end up doing more than 36 hours but that shouldn't be the normal.
And yes some managers will just do 9 hours each day because it's just easier or forget about the so called early day.
Even the new Team managers contracts state your working hours each day, which while doesn't give you the 1 hour early day each week, does state that your working shifts each day are less than 9 hours(including breaks).
If you are regularly working more than 36 hours per week, then first question your time management, and if you can honestly say that's fine, then just do the 36 hours per week regardless of what your SM/LM puts on a rota, however make sure your actually performing and completing all your Team Manager role.
And that includes, Team 5 for your colleagues, any Training that needs doing etc.
The amount of Managers that fall down on the basics like that is unbelievable, and they then wonder why they end up on performance management.
Re Actual shifts - I have worked 5-2, 6-3, 7-4, 8-5, 9-6, 10-7, 11-8,12-9, 1-10. Some are called early (7-4), mid(9-6 or10-7) or late(1-10) most by start time but I could name 5 or 6 stores that I know of personally where ALL Managers are doing at least 37.5hrs. So I am pleased to hear there are stores where Managers regularly do 36hrs per week.
I would also agree that the expectation for Managers should be to deliver their complete job role in the 36 hrs otherwise that is a performance issue. Personally I have done a 13hr shift on a lockdown evening when alarm system failure meant staying in store till is was fixed and that it is part of your job so no complaints from me but these are the exceptions that you are paid to deal with.
I think the some of this problem came from 24hr opening Nightshift being 10pm to 7am 7 days per week and day shifts fell in line. It is also more of a scheduling issue in smaller Superstores with a small number of Managers
You know in most stores there are even ga who work more hours than is paid for add that to the managers who are working more hours than they are paid to do this go some way to how tesco makes some of its profit by not employing enough staff to get the job done. It is no good saying all staff should be able to get there tasks done in the allocated hours this is mostly rubbish, all staff managers also should be paid for all hours worked regardless of circumstances.
Quote from: chris9997 on 23-05-21, 06:32PM
You know in most stores there are even ga who work more hours than is paid for add that to the managers who are working more hours than they are paid to do this go some way to how tesco makes some of its profit by not employing enough staff to get the job done. It is no good saying all staff should be able to get there tasks done in the allocated hours this is mostly rubbish, all staff managers also should be paid for all hours worked regardless of circumstances.
That can be a bigger problem. Allowing colleagues to work beyond there agreed shift and not paying them can result in them being paid less than minimum wage which is illegal
Tesco is not above paying people below the national minimum wage, the recent HMRC naming and shaming is proof of that.
We had a lead manager for the sake of anonymity we shall call him Bez Garlow who made the manages under him work ridiculous hours regularly forcing them to work 12 hour days, He would at xmas time force the SMs to do 2 weeks prior 7 days 12 hour shifts (needs of the business and all that).
I have seen him force managers who came to work 60 mins prior to their shift commencing to do outstanding paper work they could not do in a normal shift as he had them shelf filling forced to leave it and fill shelves, if your at work you have started work was his justification.
The guy was and probably still is a menace.
Not to mention the fact that because we are contracted for 7.25 hours a day we really shouldn't have to take an hour and a half of unpaid breaks, it should be an hour. The shifts should only be 8.25 hours long a day
Tesco managers. Never in the field of employment was so much paid to so many for doing so little. :D
Quote from: forrestgimp on 24-05-21, 09:01AM
We had a lead manager for the sake of anonymity we shall call him Bez Garlow who made the manages under him work ridiculous hours regularly forcing them to work 12 hour days, He would at xmas time force the SMs to do 2 weeks prior 7 days 12 hour shifts (needs of the business and all that).
I have seen him force managers who came to work 60 mins prior to their shift commencing to do outstanding paper work they could not do in a normal shift as he had them shelf filling forced to leave it and fill shelves, if your at work you have started work was his justification.
The guy was and probably still is a menace.
Unfortunately until people stand up to bullies like this they will continue to do it, more than enough in that manager's behaviour to justify a collective greavene by the managers below him.
Totally agree unfortunately he gets away with it and as far as I am aware is still getting away with it to this day.
once a pr**k always a pr**k!!
Quote from: Blandboy on 24-05-21, 07:40PM
Not to mention the fact that because we are contracted for 7.25 hours a day we really shouldn't have to take an hour and a half of unpaid breaks, it should be an hour. The shifts should only be 8.25 hours long a day
length of breaks ....
its having the time to take them ;D ;D ;D ;D
I always assumed you just took your breaks whenever a wagon turned up to be tipped at the back door. Since every manager disappears as soon as that happens. ;)
For ours on nights it's 3 wander around 1 sits in office, then when the wagon arrives they all go up and come down 40 mins later wondering why its not been tipped fully yet, or if its turned up wy we ain't let it in :D
Isn't that the backdoor mans job anyway? Not a managers job
Also 4 managers on nights? Doubt you'll have that for much longer after structure change
So what are managers good for? Holiday bookings? :D
And they can't even get that right !!!
[admin]Back on topic please.[/admin]
Regardless of your feelings towards managers no one should be working unpaid hours for a multi billion pound fortune 500 company.
Quote from: spike_pkh on 27-05-21, 08:38PM
Isn't that the backdoor mans job anyway? Not a managers job
Also 4 managers on nights? Doubt you'll have that for much longer after structure change
Yeah we are losing 1, who's a hourly paid, the others are salaried so the hourly has been told he has to go back to being a GA as there isn't any hours for him after the change comes into effect later, the rest will all still keep their hours from what theyve said to us so far, cause one hoped for a bit less instead so he could spend more time at home but theyve just told him he needs to keep going ???
But it is tesco, so who knows... Could very well change up... :D
Quote from: Ibanker2 on 23-05-21, 10:38AM
Quote from: Morris999 on 22-05-21, 11:55PM
To be honest I've worked in about 8 large format stores, and helped out in many others and I've never seen a Section/Line or Team Manager Rota that schedules Managers to 37.5 hours per week.
It's always been Early, In or Late shift, with the odd 10-7 or 11-8 thrown in for support on rare occasions or Xmas.
Now the Old Section/Line Manager and current Team Managers contracts did and do state a minimum of 36 hours a week.
Most of the managers in my current store do 36 hours most weeks myself included, apart from the Fresh manager, who is extremely poor at time management and ends up working on average 10 hours per day.
Our Checkout manager effectively strolls in whenever they feel like it when down for an In shift, but will always complete 36 hours per week and very rarely does more unless there's been issues on their department that couldn't be dealt with, but will always take the time back that week or the next.
And has always done that no matter the SM or LT in store.
At the end of the day Team managers are managers and should be able to manage their own working time!
Yes on occasions they will end up doing more than 36 hours but that shouldn't be the normal.
And yes some managers will just do 9 hours each day because it's just easier or forget about the so called early day.
Even the new Team managers contracts state your working hours each day, which while doesn't give you the 1 hour early day each week, does state that your working shifts each day are less than 9 hours(including breaks).
If you are regularly working more than 36 hours per week, then first question your time management, and if you can honestly say that's fine, then just do the 36 hours per week regardless of what your SM/LM puts on a rota, however make sure your actually performing and completing all your Team Manager role.
And that includes, Team 5 for your colleagues, any Training that needs doing etc.
The amount of Managers that fall down on the basics like that is unbelievable, and they then wonder why they end up on performance management.
Re Actual shifts - I have worked 5-2, 6-3, 7-4, 8-5, 9-6, 10-7, 11-8,12-9, 1-10. Some are called early (7-4), mid(9-6 or10-7) or late(1-10) most by start time but I could name 5 or 6 stores that I know of personally where ALL Managers are doing at least 37.5hrs. So I am pleased to hear there are stores where Managers regularly do 36hrs per week.
I would also agree that the expectation for Managers should be to deliver their complete job role in the 36 hrs otherwise that is a performance issue. Personally I have done a 13hr shift on a lockdown evening when alarm system failure meant staying in store till is was fixed and that it is part of your job so no complaints from me but these are the exceptions that you are paid to deal with.
I think the some of this problem came from 24hr opening Nightshift being 10pm to 7am 7 days per week and day shifts fell in line. It is also more of a scheduling issue in smaller Superstores with a small number of Managers
Problem is the contract states minimum 36 hours which is how the company will see it when turned on them
Also on work and pay our hours are set as 7hr15mins each day which should equal to pretty much 36 hours
Although the rota in most shops I have worked in do state the same I.E 7-4 10-7 1-10 a lot of ships still plan team 5 meeting past 4pm which is after the contracted shift if on 7-4
A few shops I know actually plan the meeting for 5pm and all managers are expected to stay until that time
I think best to also contact your Area Organiser of USDAW also to get their input
It's Work & Pay that has got the questions going . The on-line schedule clearly contracts Managers to 36hrs per week , which is the lie to the Minimum hrs in our contracts and the paper in store schedules. The minimum is not an excuse have free hours worked by Managers or bullied into working longer by having mandatory attendance at Team 5 or Rumble (I know it was done away with / hrs removed etc but it still happens at least twice a day). The "a minimum 36 hrs" is so that the company can deal with exceptions / one off's. I have even been told that the managers are scheduled for 37.5hrs to make sure we do the minim 36hrs ....work that BS out if you can ....Personally I can tell the time. As for the Union ..the ultimate waste of space.
Do you remember that period of time where they wanted managers to clock in and out. And then they stopped us doing it. Makes me wonder whether they didn't want a paper trail of exceeded hours? Admittedly there are still archived rotas, but I'm not sure that record is kept for as long a period of time
Thats exactly why you are not clocking in and out.
You don't like, "working" extra hours, quit. Find another job. The GA's won't miss you. Hell, it will take some time before we even realise you're gone... ;D
If they won't be missed, so working no hours why are they needed to work extra hours? 8-)
Managers working extra hours for free is nothing new. Its been a typical exploitation bu upper management in the company for years. All part of the job though I suppose for the odd occasion and if done on a regular basis then the own managers fault for not growing a backbone and standing up to their bosses
Theres not many companies where you become a Manager or Senior Manager
and only do 36 hours a week, or just work monday to friday
Not just in retail but in all walks of life
Those manager roles also pay considerably higher however.
Most managers want to do the right thing and deliver their job role within 36hrs. However way too many people in the company still expect them to undertake tasks that are not included in their role packs.....ie the 2hrs a day spent rumbling (which is over 25% of their working day). If you want to tackle excess hours you also need to tackle ad-hoc tasks that the company tells us not to do, but store managers and SDs believe you still should
Managers are paid a salary not hourly, with a minimum 36 hour week worked. If it takes 40hrs for them to complete their job then thats their problem. If they have completed the job to store managers satisfaction in 36hrs then go home.
Most are salary some are hourly, just depends, but like you say, if they are stupid enough to do 40 while salaried for 36 then that's on them...
Managers are salaried but have a known hourly rate. Only paid hourly for overtime, such as Sundays.
Salaries are supposed to include remuneration for the occasional overtime with the emphasis on occasional. If it becomes the norm or is excessive then its time to renegotiate your pay package.
We don't live in a perfect world. There will always be glitches to the system but that is not unique to us.
Strange how some glitches are readily accepted/tolerated 8-)
When you become a manager you are expected to be able to manage yourself, to a certain extent.
Quote from: gomezz on 05-06-21, 09:43AM
If they won't be missed, so working no hours why are they needed to work extra hours? 8-)
They're not needed. That's the point. Fresh is pretty much run by long serving GA's. Stock Control is another example; since fresh stock is controlled by the people at Centre, Stock Control is pretty much irrelevant to Produce, Dairy etc. Because they can't effect what we have delivered. We get far too much stock no matter what counts SC do. And there is nothing they can do to stop it being forced in.
Let's not forget they still get a yearly BONUS unlike all GA's who were scammed out of their BONUS with this 10% increase over 2 years what a joke that was the bonus actually paying for a wage increase and as long as they stay above NMW there is nothing they can do except moan suck it up MANAGEMENT !! :D :D :D :D Boo Hoo !!
Don't even have to stay above minimum wage going off my own experience and the recent HMRC name and shame.
Quote from: Batmanjo on 15-06-21, 12:54PM
Let's not forget they still get a yearly BONUS unlike all GA's who were scammed out of their BONUS with this 10% increase over 2 years what a joke that was the bonus actually paying for a wage increase and as long as they stay above NMW there is nothing they can do except moan suck it up MANAGEMENT !! :D :D :D :D Boo Hoo !!
Or on the flipside to your comment.
Let's not forget they got a minimal pay rise whilst the GA's got a massive increase but were told they would keep their bonus in lieu of this. Then Tesco continued to pay GA's a bonus anyway just to twist the knife
Massive increase... don't think you've got the right Tesco fella.
Quote from: spike_pkh on 16-06-21, 06:06PM
Quote from: Batmanjo on 15-06-21, 12:54PM
Let's not forget they still get a yearly BONUS unlike all GA's who were scammed out of their BONUS with this 10% increase over 2 years what a joke that was the bonus actually paying for a wage increase and as long as they stay above NMW there is nothing they can do except moan suck it up MANAGEMENT !! :D :D :D :D Boo Hoo !!
Or on the flipside to your comment.
Let's not forget they got a minimal pay rise whilst the GA's got a massive increase but were told they would keep their bonus in lieu of this. Then Tesco continued to pay GA's a bonus anyway just to twist the knife
Which alternative dimension does tesco give a "massive bonus" to GA staff?... Always known it to be the bare minimum and pay cuts, hell, mines almost back to the pay u was in when I started like 10 ish years ago... Managers have far better pay I er the years..,
We got 10% over 2 years which is massive in comparison to other years.
And I never said massive bonus. We got 2% bonus on top of the 10% payrise, managers got 2.5% with a small payrise (something like 2% i think)
10% would indeed be massive if we weren't talking minimum wage levels as the base pay, and the fact that the loss of the performance bonus covered the increase.
The Covid bonus is a one off and shouldn't be treated as a bonus, rather danger money for these trying times.
10% would ALSO indeed be massive if i didnt loose my time and a half on sundays and my bonus, im earning the exact same money now as i did in 2016, s*** company
That 'Massive' payrise spike is shouting about caused my colleague to lose money when he lost all the addons they took away. Fantastic payrise it was for him.
Add to this, that 10% was essentially mandatory has the minimum wage increased by a similar amount.
Quote from: NightAndDay on 17-06-21, 10:24AM
10% would indeed be massive if we weren't talking minimum wage levels as the base pay, and the fact that the loss of the performance bonus covered the increase.
The Covid bonus is a one off and shouldn't be treated as a bonus, rather danger money for these trying times.
But yet the managers didn't receive it as well, when they worked throughout the whole pandemic as well
The pay rise was due to minimum wage increase, I understand that completely and think it was long overdue. They should have just scrapped all bonuses and given everyone the same increase.
To be clear managers did receive the covid bonus. The 2.5% was the covid bonus.
The business said that we didn't meet the requirements to pay the yearly bonus that managers receive.
I think many managers would rather have the 10% pay rise over two years rather than the bonus.
Of course they would but then they wouldn't be in the position of their pay packet being less with the removal of the other sundry addons.
Quote from: NightAndDay on 17-06-21, 10:24AM
10% would indeed be massive if we weren't talking minimum wage levels as the base pay, and the fact that the loss of the performance bonus covered the increase.
The Covid bonus is a one off and shouldn't be treated as a bonus, rather danger money for these trying times.
Dont forget the small matter of people who shielded for just over a year(apart from 1 day at work), got the bonus.