Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

14-05-21, 02:47AM

Login with username, password and session length

Recent

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 51725
  • Total Topics: 1038
  • Online Today: 68
  • Online Ever: 525
  • (11-07-20, 04:47PM)
Users Online
Users: 3
Guests: 49
Total: 52

Author Topic: Occupational health  (Read 5212 times)

BigBear

  • VLH Supporter
  • Newbie
  • ******
  • Posts: 5
Occupational health
« on: 12-04-21, 01:54AM »
Hi, I was hoping for some advice.  I have worked for this company for 10 years, on many departments.  I was working clothing on nights, then that position went and I was moved to grocery filling.  I have been doing  this for the last couple of years.  I have  fibromyalgia  which is a condition  hard to explain and many people don't believe in.  I do my best to do the same as anyone else, but I regularly go home crying in pain and I have no life outside of work because I'm normally recovering.

I struggled for ages and finally asked for help, nobody  has any ideas.  There have been stock control jobs merchandising etc I've said I would go on days, I had a O.H assessment which suggested  these sort of adjustments.  But my manager told me that the assessment didn't really help me.  And that I can only change departments if I give up my full time.contract and go part time and make up my hours, well I can't afford  that.  I want to work I can work, I just want some quality  of home life.  I have got nowhere  and don't really know what to do now.
« Last Edit: 12-04-21, 10:42AM by Nomad »

Redshoes

  • Smart Arse
  • *****
  • Posts: 964
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #1 on: 12-04-21, 07:02AM »
OH make recommendations. They may suggest a move but a job can’t be made for you. If a job comes up in a dept for 15 hours for example and you can only accept full time hours it does not have to made full time for you. It can however be looked at. If you have a high absence level due to struggling with your condition the moving of roles may not help you enough.

Nomad

  • Administrator
  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 6975
  • Who dares, wins.
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #2 on: 12-04-21, 10:44AM »
"There have been stock control jobs merchandising etc I've said I would go on days" that comment suggests to me that they have had job vacancies you were willing to do but they would not give them to you.

That does not sound like a job being made for you.
Nomad ( Forum Admin )
It's better to be up in arms than down on your knees.

BigBear

  • VLH Supporter
  • Newbie
  • ******
  • Posts: 5
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #3 on: 12-04-21, 12:44PM »
The jobs were part time. There will never be a full time jobs again.i just don't know what to do

BigBear

  • VLH Supporter
  • Newbie
  • ******
  • Posts: 5
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #4 on: 12-04-21, 12:49PM »
And I don't take many days off sick can't afford it I work through. Most flares. After 10 years with the company i thought I had earned  some help

Duff McKagan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #5 on: 12-04-21, 03:41PM »
Length of service means absolutely nothing to this company, they’d much rather get rid of full time longer serving staff and have more part timers replace them.
Of course it could be the case that nothing suitable has come up yet but it sounds very much to me as though they’d like you to drop hours and strike another full timer off the list, hence not accommodating you.
Ultimately though you have to make a decision, do you want to keep earning the money at the expense of your health and wellbeing or are you prepared take a wage cut and feel healthier? Believe you me, this company doesn’t give a toss...we are just numbers, all replaceable, after almost 20 years service I have never been more sure of that fact.

Redshoes

  • Smart Arse
  • *****
  • Posts: 964
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #6 on: 13-04-21, 03:15AM »
A lot of the stock control jobs have gone to low contract hours. If a job comes up for 11.5 hours it is a lot to make it 36.5 and offer to you. If it comes up at 26 hours it is much closer. Depts need to stay closer to allowed hours but we need to help and support colleagues too.
It could be that you could end up with hours split between two Depts. That then puts it at the mercy of timing as you need two areas to come up almost at the same time. Ideally this would still leave you with one manager but it can be done with two. For example PI, stock control and merchandising all fall under same manager but PI and checkouts would be different managers.
What won’t happen is you taking on the 11.5 hours in stock control with the remainder of your hours left just hanging and not assigned to an area. They have to sit somewhere in the system.

Nomad

  • Administrator
  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 6975
  • Who dares, wins.
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #7 on: 13-04-21, 10:42AM »
Who decides on the system ? all systems can,and should, be tweaked to accommodate reliable conscientious employees, but sadly it won't be    :'(
Nomad ( Forum Admin )
It's better to be up in arms than down on your knees.

BigBear

  • VLH Supporter
  • Newbie
  • ******
  • Posts: 5
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #8 on: 14-04-21, 01:48AM »
I seem to be stuffed  i am apparently  not allowed to split my hours on different  departments
I can't afford to loose hours and don't see why I should loosing night rate would be a drop in pay already. I don't know what to do. Thank u all for your responses

lordadmiral

  • VLH Supporter
  • Smart Arse
  • ******
  • Posts: 556
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #9 on: 14-04-21, 10:42AM »
Tesco is complicated. We on nights must do PI before replenishment. So two roles are asigned to one person. But it is all about managing by hours not by specific role/department.

forrestgimp

  • VLH Supporter
  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 1097
  • Can't wait to retire when I am 110
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #10 on: 14-04-21, 04:13PM »
I would suggest you get in touch with access to work, https://www.gov.uk/access-to-work

Explain to them what your disability is and request a workplace assessment, Once you get an assessment that outlines what reasonable adjustments Tesco can be expected to make to enable you to carry on working its harder for them to refuse to do so although not impossible.

There are a myriad of adjustments that can be made but this is not a guarantee that you can or will be accommodated it just means if Tesco disregard the assessment and don't implement any recommendations if you go to a tribunal they will have to show why they took the action they took.

Good luck and keep us updated (without giving to much identifying info out).

   
« Last Edit: 14-04-21, 08:05PM by Nomad »

miriam

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 49
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #11 on: 14-04-21, 04:30PM »
For me i think if you were family in store you would get what you need/want
So I think it’s not a Tesco thing. Or rather there is a lot of manipulation and cover ups for family

Misha101

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #12 on: 19-04-21, 01:23PM »
I'm not exactly sure, but it might be worth having a look at 'The equalities act' it encompasses the former 'disability discrimination act' as this may give you extra support. It's all about workers not being discriminated against for certain reasons.outside their control.

horatiocain

  • Know All
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #13 on: 05-05-21, 11:00AM »
Manager will claim a job can't be made for you its rubbish, it can and should, because we are hired as GAs, the role of a GA is huge and all encompassing, they can find duties of a GA and give them to you, but that will require they know their job and the law.

Tesco are lazy and don't want to be accommodating even though the law requires it as a reasonable adjustment, I walked 3 people through tribunal hearings who all won large sums of money for tesco not making these adjustments.

Fibromyagia is a complex condition which will require adjustments, including higher absence tolerance increased breaks likely a sit down role with limited repetitive movement  all of which a GA can be given as their duties.
Not that USDAW have the balls in their reps to handle, I would complain tonueally get told off by the AO for pushing too hard in this area, use access to work to help support your need for adjustments.

Dooby27

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #14 on: 05-05-21, 12:56PM »
Any adjustments should also be put on an adjustment passport. This condition is more than reasonable to make changes for.

forrestgimp

  • VLH Supporter
  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 1097
  • Can't wait to retire when I am 110
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #15 on: 10-05-21, 04:04PM »
Manager will claim a job can't be made for you its rubbish, it can and should, because we are hired as GAs, the role of a GA is huge and all encompassing, they can find duties of a GA and give them to you, but that will require they know their job and the law.

Tesco are lazy and don't want to be accommodating even though the law requires it as a reasonable adjustment, I walked 3 people through tribunal hearings who all won large sums of money for tesco not making these adjustments.

Fibromyagia is a complex condition which will require adjustments, including higher absence tolerance increased breaks likely a sit down role with limited repetitive movement  all of which a GA can be given as their duties.
Not that USDAW have the balls in their reps to handle, I would complain tonueally get told off by the AO for pushing too hard in this area, use access to work to help support your need for adjustments.

I'm sorry but the DDA makes it very clear employers are not obliged to 'make a job up' for anyone regardless of their disability. I have outlined the steps needed to get the best advice and help well meaning but wrong advice does not help anyone.


Nomad

  • Administrator
  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 6975
  • Who dares, wins.
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #16 on: 10-05-21, 07:27PM »
Employers may not be obliged to 'make up a job' however there are employers who have such a very wide field of required expertise that it remains extremely easy for them to find a position suitable for the disadvantaged employee, it just needs them to have the will to do so.
Nomad ( Forum Admin )
It's better to be up in arms than down on your knees.

Redshoes

  • Smart Arse
  • *****
  • Posts: 964
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #17 on: 11-05-21, 03:38AM »
Sometimes the suitable job can’t be found as it may mean a change in hours or days. A role has to be an actual one, not made up. It’s often on checkouts but the school hours tend to have a waiting list. Health trumps just being desired but no store ever sits with school hours jobs on checkouts for long as they are so easy to fill. The vacancy hours tend to be evenings and weekends. The company can’t ask someone else to move hours to accommodate.
Nobody can be made to change days and hours so they can take on a suitable job but it can be offered and turned down resulting in no suitable job being found.

Nomad

  • Administrator
  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 6975
  • Who dares, wins.
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #18 on: 11-05-21, 11:17AM »
Yes, there's several things they can't do, there's many things they won't do, BUT there's certainly a lot of things they can do.
Nomad ( Forum Admin )
It's better to be up in arms than down on your knees.

horatiocain

  • Know All
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #19 on: 11-05-21, 07:07PM »
A role and a job are 3 completely different things.
The equality act means that your emotes must make all reasonable adjustment for your disability.
This includes changing duties, hours, rest breaks, adaptable working, new equipment or anything else reasonable for a company posting billions in its operating budget.

If your store office isn't wheelchair accessible and it needs to be changed the requirement is to change it if that means knocking the front of the building down and rebuilding it then that's what Tesco must do.

Reasonable uses the resources of the entire company in its legal consideration.

So while they don't have to make a job for you, they do HAVE to make a role for you.

If you can only complete 10% of a GAs duties then those duties become the knes assigned to you, other members of the team will cease these duties and perform the ones your disability makes you incapable of doing.

Only bad managers and worse USDAW reps make the claim that they don't have to make a job for someone, because that's not what your asking, you're asking for an adjustment of duties.
It's not making a job, it making a role for you which is absolutely a requirement.
Tesco head office via colleague relations are furious at continually being sued for this, they always settle the claims and make orders for adjustments  just don't expect USDAW to help, they in the companies pocket too far.

Read your legislation, last time an employee did that it cost the company a c**p ton of money and forced them to actually obey the driving laws, Tesco are a joke for following law, I cannot tell you how many times I heard a manager state that they only follow Tesco training and will ignore law.

In every case Tesco settle before the tribunal hearing because their legal team are not stupid.

Lastly forestgimp may want to take your own advice, your advice was wrong in itself, the employee isn't saying make a job for me, they're saying make my duties things that can be done.

I personally had someone with the same condition.
Tesco agreed the following.
Increased breaks, at the employees managed time.
Paid time off for physiotherapy and psychotherapy.
Increase in absence threshold to 7% and 9 occasions.
Absence not counted if hours made up within 7 days.
Disabled access to the office via automatic push button door.
Removal of all walking duties and a corresponding increase in computer based tasks.
Ergonomic desk solution, which cost £7000.
Other members of the team were asked to adjust hours to accommodate 2 hour later starts  which was agreed via consultation with the team.

They absolutely can change other members of staff working hours and duties, it's actually stipulated in the policy document, or at least was, and there's plenty of case law to support this.

If they can make a role, and they certainly can, then the question becomes is it reasonable for them to make these changes, and they will almost always be reasonable for a company posting £1.3billion in profits last year.

Making a job would be if you asked them to make a job and hire you exclusively into when fully staffed, making a role for you is entirely different.
« Last Edit: 11-05-21, 07:17PM by horatiocain »

Welshie

  • VLH Supporter
  • Smart Arse
  • ******
  • Posts: 743
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #20 on: 11-05-21, 08:30PM »
@horatiocain . That doesn't answer the op's question about creating a job on days for her that still gives her full-time hours . So a suitable job is there with few adjustments just not full-time hours the OP needs

horatiocain

  • Know All
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #21 on: 12-05-21, 10:44PM »
Hours can be changed as a reasonable adjustment, I had that for someone with Fibromyalgia.
They changed their start from 4am to 5am then finally to 7am, no loss of hours, just different start time.

First thing to do is to know what they can do in their role, which will be limited, then when those tasks can be done, if this means changing hours that should be done as a reasonable adjustment.
This isn't making a role, it's adjusting a role to suit an employee with unique needs.


Page 8 of the policy document actually lays out about changing hours and working more flexibly as a reasonable adjustment.

Redshoes

  • Smart Arse
  • *****
  • Posts: 964
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #22 on: 13-05-21, 06:17AM »
So, you have a colleague who works on the back door, they need a move and it has been agreed that checkouts would be a suitable place. This puts them into a role that starts two hours later but all the early shifts are full, heat map says no gaps in rota until 10 at the earliest but most gaps in rota are in the evenings. Colleague has turned down job as normal hours not available. Normal hours for colleague are two hours before the shop opens.
Hours could be put into checkouts for this colleague from when the shop opens but as checkouts is then over hours at that time the impact is that they will now get less overtime. The evening shifts will not be filled and the overtime for these shifts will be restricted too. The impact of all of this is that checkouts either get more overtime than the tablet allows at the expense of the rest of the store or they don’t get the hours but this results in relief calls.
The stark reality is that we do need to support colleagues. We do need to go all out to try and help them adjust to changes but as a private company we can’t afford to make up jobs. They can be offered jobs but they need to be not having a negative impact on the store. Adjusted tasks is fine, but it’s unreasonable to turn down a job on hours when they are the hours that are needed for the dept and the store.
This is not a real situation I am talking about. It is a real situation I have seen though. Hours refused as it changed start time but old start time was hours before a dept opened. Refused other areas until until that dept opened too.

NightAndDay

  • Sad Muppet
  • ******
  • Posts: 1288
Re: Occupational health
« Reply #23 on: 13-05-21, 01:24PM »
Wouldn't what's on the RHRP and staff availability forms be use used to determine whether a colleague turning down a job offer would be reasonable or not, if they're refusing the job but on their availability forms they have put that they can work those hours then the onus should be on the colleague, likewise if it isn't, they shouldn't be reprimanded for refusing.