Double Time on Sunday... uh oh

[smithwally]

I have been led to believe that it is not on there in its entirety.

You are right. It does talk about the P.A. between Tesco and USDAW and what it aims to do, but the full text of the P.A. is nowhere to be found.

I really desperately want to read the PA and compare it with my Employment Contract.

I am picking up vibes that there are inconsistencies between the two documents, and I want to find out for myself what they are so I can show these to any solicitor specialising in Employment law.

It also mentions that the P.A. is a voluntary agreement and that it is reviewed every two years by both Tesco and USDAW.

It is clear that staff have no input at all to this biennial review of the P.A. between Tesco and USDAW.

It is clear that the P.A. directly affects staff via the annual pay deals, new policies like TFOD, SYA, and now the erosion in Terms and conditions.

And yet Tesco staff appear contractually bound to the effects of the VOLUNTARY P.A. agreed between Tesco and USDAW via their employment contracts......

Is that not an abuse of power? i.e. Tesco and USDAW get to dictate to the staff their T&C's, annual pay deals etc and happily ignore ACAS's requirements for consultation and obtaining agreements for changes to T&C's and staff do not get a say in these discussions between Tesco and USDAW?

I find it disgusting that USDAW were happy to help Boots staff take Boots to an ET when Boots reduced their Sunday double pay to time & a half, and the staff won their case against Boots for unlawful deduction of wages and we are cast into the sea by USDAW when Tesco want to do the same thing to us as Boots did to their staff......

Morrisons went through something similar but at least the staff had a ballot via USDAW even though it was a biased ballot as unaffected staff were able to vote and they grossly outnumbered the affected staff.

[Loki]

Although the Partnership Agreement is not available in its entirety on the site, you have the right to access the Agreement at your store. That aside and without going over old ground about my disagreeing with you regarding the pay deal being contrary to legislation, it is at least good to see that you intend to seek legal advice.

[daftjoe]

This may seem a bit facetious, but can anyone remember how the partnership agreement was sold by Tesco and USDAW to the masses at the time of it's inception?

I didn't join until 2005 so I was well ensconced by then. Maybe someone still has the paperwork in their files!

I'd like to see what the big attraction was to not being able to vote on the annual pay deal.

[Nomad]

@smithwally, minor but important point. TOFD is government legislation and cannot be ignored/amended by any agreement between company and union.

https://www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants/your-rights

[smithwally]

Nomad, agree with you there regarding TFOD.

And yet Tesco use the voluntary partnership agreement to get out of the requirement to consult with and obtain agreement from employees regarding changes to terms and conditions....

Someone here is trying to have their cake and eat it....

If the partnership agreement is available for inspection at stores, why is it not online, and if it's inspection only, that suggests we are not allowed to take copies home?

[Nomad]

Why are employees not entitled to their own copy of a document that is part of, and affects, their T&Cs 

[mexicopete]

That's because they have all of our trollies are around our ankles and we have been well and truly shafted by the very people we are paying and trusting to look after our best interests USDAW. I've said this before on many occasions the people at the top table at USDAW should hang their heads in shame, they are treating their membership with utter contempt. 

[Loki]

smithwally

I won't comment on your second paragraph as this has been argued time and time again in this thread (no, not Loki show).

There is no requirement to make the agreement available on line. There are reasons why they have included the majority of it as well as other material, but that's another matter entirely.

The Agreement, as well as other particular policies, are available for you to view. They are not required to give you a copy but your individual contract must state where it and/or other policies can be found of which you are entitled to access at any time.

[Duracell]

I just had a read on VLH wiki to see if it was there and it was.
It's referenced under RHRP

So how can the Forum side step that which is laid down in

Policies for people 2.1
Changing Terms and Conditions.

Discussing the impact will have on each individual.

Are they doing that ?

If we change terms of employment and an individual does not give us written consent, then even if the change does not immediately impact upon him/her, the individual will still be able to raise objections to it in the future. Continuation in the job does not imply acceptance of the new terms. We must therefore ensure that all collegues sign and return their terms of employment

Why are they insisting on your individual written consent under this policy if it is not required to be legally binding?

Follow the protection policy guidelines if a change affects an individual's salary and/or premium.

The guidelines mention 4 years as opposed to 18 months .


HOW has the forum side stepped the Policies for changing terms and conditions?

[Beverley]

I just found this document from 2010 online.Supporting-doc-foi-12-1180-north-davey-2010-05-26.pdf   I love how Tesco say they want to treat us well and reward us for our work. Also found this article from the Guardian 10th September 1999 Part of it is quoted below.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/1999/sep/10/11

But not everybody is happy. Giving up the right to vote on the annual pay deal provoked considerable discontent among Usdaw members and nearly prevented the setting up of the forums. In exchange for a 2.7% pay rise - above inflation but by no means the most generous offer in this year's wage round - the national forum signed away new workers' rights to higher wage rates on Sundays.

"It's the sort of partnership where you take double time on Sundays away from people," said Alastair Hatchett from Incomes Data Services.etember 2010 about the PA.

[Loki]

Duracell

They haven't side stepped it.

For the record, I'm fully aware of the policy... I put it there.

It's a separate matter altogether to what is being discussed as RHRP does not form part of the collective bargaining unit regarding pay deals.

There is a separate Forum unit to decide matters that you are referring to.

This is what I meant by the mechanisms of the Partnership Agreement for stores. Perhaps it is my fault for not providing an exhaustive account of all the involved mechanisms and various parties that make up the Partnership Agreement and the Forum process.

If you worked at stores and were aware of this complicated process, then you would understand what I am referring to.

[Duracell]

I didn't get it from there I just mentioned it was refrenced there as relative to RHRP.

It's referenced as a policy outside of RHRP as a principle to be applied for contractual change.

Sure looks like a side step to me.

They are saying that's what we will do if we need to change contracts ( which is what's happening)
And they ain't doing it.

[Duracell]

I get it though, your implying your forum can disregard what every it likes, decide what it likes, and there is nothing that can be done.

[Loki]

Im not implying anything of the sort. What I am saying is that you lack understanding my friend, especially with regards to the process within stores. Furthermore, I suggest you be careful as to not imply that I'm somewhat defending this damn union or its forum. It is not my forum whatsoever. It is a National forum that weat stores are tied to until the Partnership becomes defunct or thrown out which is what is needed!

Like I said, you do not understand the make up of the various bargaining units within the store formats.

It is because you are not informed of this complexed system that you are incorrect with your assumption of a side step being made.

I understand your initial conviction regarding the pay deal, but you are now confusing this with those convictions. It's a separate matter.

Again, it would take forever to provide every bit of detail in wiki and I simply do not have the time. But what I will say is that until you work and deal with stores regarding these matters as I have for many years, then you are quite frankly not in a position to give an informed opinion about the separate issues that form this debacle of a process.

No offence intended, but I'm getting rather sick to the back teeth about all this especially as I am affected by this AND knowing where I stand from a legal point of view as a result of my position having given me access to all I need to know. This, in turn, allows the members I represent to be fully aware of what has happened, is happening and what may or may not happen.

[Loki]

What I will do at this juncture is at least attempt to leave it there as per our previous conversation. Otherwise it's round and round the garden like a pair of teddy bears again.

[Duracell]

I can see it all in black white and lots of other various colours.

The wealth of information on the various bargainig units, is extensive I agree so I can see why you may think I'm uninformed.

As for me saying "Your forum", you knew what I meant. The retail forum.

I don't actually base my opinion from WIKI,  I see so so much more ( and some )
elsewhere, it is easier to reference when I know you have put it there thats all.

Forums!

Yeah your right we ain't got the time.

[optout]

a one step, a two step,...a tickley under there

[Loki]

Again, you are not in a position where you have to deal with the store process and its various units. It is evident from your replies that you are not fully informed of this. DC's I have no doubt you have, but not stores.

Furthermore, I did not know what you meant. Perhaps I should have, but I didn't as I took it at "face value".

.... in the meantime all I'm getting through the post is s*** Usdaw magazines, the latest trendy campaign and other forms of garbage whilst having to be proactive regarding this damn pay deal.

I have to be honest, my blood pressure has never been this high and one way or another, something will change with regards to my relationship with F**kdaw.

For once my anger is directed at them, not the company because I wouldn't expect Tesco to behave any different whereas Usdaw have mistreated its members on a whole new level this past year or so, not to mention lying about certain matters which I will not disclose here.

[OpShunned]

I wish you would disclose them here Loki. The Daily Planet journos are chomping at the bit for more exclusives 

TESDAW deserves a good-shafting 

[Loki]

I'm not disclosing anything at this moment. Too many canary traps of late and hairs standing on end.

I'm afraid one hand is cuffed at the moment which is why I'm so vexed and upset off. Others have their limits as do I.

[optout]

Could somebody with access to the partnership agreement, put a copy of the full unadulterated version on-line (either on here, or linked to elsewhere).

It seems silly that many of the discussions we have on here are affected by this agreement yet only the rare few have ever seen the full version.

on another point, it has been said (by Loki I think) that it maybe wise to seek legal advise if we are unsure of our legal standing. So given that, If I wished to seek legal advise, my solicitor would need to see the Partnership agreement and other things relevant to my contract. So how do I get a copy to give to a solicitor (or do I bring a solicitor to my Personell Managers office and request an appointment with personell?)

[OpShunned]

Request it from USDAW HQ?

[BigT]

How about going to ourtesco website and going to the section which has the agreement in detail

[optout]

according to some on here, the on-line version is not the full version.

[Loki]

optout

One last thing, and I do sincerely apologise for my ranting, the PA itself does not provide every detail . There are so many documents that need to be collated and furthermore, as a result of this certain processes and procedures that have been challenged both at Company and Union level.

Yes, by all means, seek assistance from a solicitor. Don't take them to your PM. In your first appt take your contract and copy the forum section etc from OURTesco. That will suffice in the first instance. If they require further information before making a decision to take your case, then worry about that later and there will be a way of getting more info from the OurTesco or here. If they take your case on, then they will obtain everything they need themselves. But for now, everything you need at this time is there for your initial appt.

But, do not be surprised by the outcome. In the meantime good luck.