Has anyone else heard of the trial going on in which drivers are expected to do a four days on four days off rota?, eg. work four days, four days off then work four evenings and four days off.
Would anyone be willing to do these sort of shifts or is it even feasible when it would mean more manpower needed and they can't recruit enough drivers or retain them as it is. Plus many drivers have other commitments, would they be expected just to give them up for Tesco?
4 days on 4 days off means you would need to be available 7 days a week as your working days would always be different. Cant see everyone having 7 days a week availability. They would prob have to offer redundancy as an option if this happens & can see most people would snap their hands off.
Giving 4 day contract for 4 on off service. I told you what is happening they are introducing a app. Delivery driver won't be on site unless there is work.
I can't see that working in my store, more than half of us are on part time contracts and many of us have child care commitments. It's almost cheaper for me not to work than send my child to nursery.
Childcare commitments.... how dare you ;D
Then there's the Sunday optout....puts the kibosh on that rota straight off..
Would also mean less money in my wages!
I work 35hrs (3 x 9hr days, 2 x 4hr nights/week) which means 140hrs/4 week payday
4 days on 4 days off 4 nights on 4 days off = 2 x 4 days + 2 x 4 nights worked in a four week period which is only 104hrs or the equivalent of one weeks less money.
I'll be gone, can't take that loss.
Anyone heard anything more about this?
The rumours going round my store at the moment are 12 hour shifts one week 8-8 and 10-10 the next. The reasoning for this is that since they decided to abide by GB domestic driving rules they can't get enough drivers to fill the evening shift.
All seems a bit of a joke to me, we go through stages of having overtime capped which results in capped night runs. How hard can it be to have the wages available for 9 drivers if you want to send out 9 vans and if you dont have enough drivers just hire some new ones. This has been going on for 10 months now surely someone has some brain cells higher up to sort this out.
GB domestic driving laws say you can only be on duty for 11 hours in a 24 hour period so 12 hour shifts cant be done.
Villager no 6. You would not be worse of as there would be no evening shifts. It would mean 4 days on 4 days off but no evenings as the shifts would be 8-8 & 10-10. Look at the GB domestic driving laws on the gov website for 3.5 ton drivers. If you are employed as this then you can only work a max of 11 hours in 24 hour period so cant see how they can get round that with 12 hour shifts.
Take off hour & a half break they could
What I don't get is the extra cost of poorer van utilisation. Currently a van is used 13 hours a day. Using this system would mean only using a van for 11 hours a day. That is a huge hike in the cost of running the fleet with 18% more vans needed providing 16% less delivery capacity. The figures just don't add up. Unless I am missing something?
Fatboy, had based my figures on the OP so with yours I'd be working 176 hrs.
4 shifts of 4 x 11hrs.
Fatboy/Gomezz, we won't be using the vans 11hrs/day, it'll be 10hrs/day. The GB domestic driving laws are you can work 11hrs in any 24hr period BUT you can only be driving for 10 of those 11hrs.
I'm assuming we'll be going out three times/day so on an 8-8, out at 8, lunch 12-1, out 1-5, 1/2hr break then out 5.30-8. That's 10.5hrs so over driving limit. The only way to make it work would be; Clock in at 8, load van/do van checks, leave 8.15 back 11.45 (3.5hrs) 11.45-12 empty/load, 12-1 lunch, 1.15-4.45 (3.5hrs) 4.45-5 empty/load, 5-5.30 break, 5.45-7.45 (2hrs) 7.45-8 empty/put backs. Total driving hrs 9 thereby allowing 1hr for traffic hold ups etc. Total duty time 10.5hrs again allowing 1/2hr for "events".
11:45 - 12 empty van & reload? You having a laugh!!
Villager No.6 must work at one of those stores that only take out 10 ambient trays on a run!
The more i think about this it just doesn't make sense. They are going to have to build in a contingency for unexpected events so we dont go over 10 hours driving time so the vans are only going to be out for a maximum of 9.5 hours, they will be down about 1.5 hours delivery hours per van. I'm sure some bright spark has just seen that he can save an hours worth of wages and not considered the consequences.
There is also the legal side to consider when our driving time actually starts and stops since once my van is loaded i still have to drive it somewhere before I have my break. So if they can take that time off our driving time why don't they just take off the delivery time as well and go back to the way it was before, there is no way I'm anywhere close to driving for 10 hours on a night and a day shift.
The delivery time does not count as driving time (we covered all this recently) so the 10 hour driving time limit does not really come into play. It is the 11 hour duty time limit when driving as part of that time that is significant.
A trial is ongoing down south so the jungle drums say.
Can anyone from a store that is part of the trial give us anymore info please?
I thought that we were also going over the 10 hours driving limit. I guess what it comes down to then is the van utilisation in the evening across the country. If you can only send out 2/3 of the vans in the evening, which is very common for my store, then you are getting about the same amount of van delivery time (3 day vans + 2 night vans = 29.5 hours vs 3 12hour vans 29.25 hours) but saving the 45 minutes it takes for the day driver to load the night run and the night driver to do his van checks and if only delivering until 10 you also save an hour of team support wage. Multiply this over the entire country then I guess the saving in wages makes a lot of sense.
Think the main sticking point with this would be driver availability. If its gonna go to a 4 on 4 off shift pattern & be alternated between 8-8 & 10-10, this would mean all drivers would have to be available from 8am to 10pm 7 days a week.
Has usdaw been involved in this ? as a rep I have heard nothing about this.
Store I worked in, they had a few people that did the 8-6 or 9-7 shift Tuesday - Friday. They never worked weekends / evenings and never did OT.
They always hide behind the union when it comes to contract changes.
That's what they pay subs for 8-)
Seems funny to me that no one from the trial stores has posted anything. Is this trial actually happening??
One of our driver trainers confirmed it was happening and said no matter what the outcome of the trial they will roll it out sometime in 2021.
One of our driver trainers confirms things all the time but they never happen 8-)
Anyone got even the slightest clue what's happening??!
This is Tesco, I don't think anyone has a clue whats happening.
We must all be getting close to that yearly driver training session, maybe we will find out more then.
That's not happened In our store for the last 2 years.
Nor ours. But you know the saying,
You can fool all the people some of the time,
and you can fool some of the people all the time,
but you can't fool all the people all of the time!
After all the stories the last few years they won't face the drivers and admit it was all rubbish.
You're missing out, the trip to the boozer down the road once its all done is a fantastic way to spend the afternoon.
Word on the street is there will be some sort of announcement in week 23.
with .com due to go bagless, and picking hours being cut, perhaps they are going to allow extra time for each drop, but I doubt it.
Apparently extra time is built into bagless shops now. Never noticed it though.
Quote from: kaled78 on 17-07-19, 04:52PM
with .com due to go bagless, and picking hours being cut, perhaps they are going to allow extra time for each drop, but I doubt it.
There will be no extra time at the door for when we go bagless. There will be new budgets etc for dot com in week 22 with heat maps being updated. Pick rate targets will increase and pickers will need to achieve them.
Shafted. Why do you say there will be no extra time at the door? People cant unpack their shopping as fast if it ain't bagged so it will take longer. If extra time isn't allowed, I can see deliveries further into the runs being late or even brought back.
The information provided says so. Customers will have plenty of communication in advance so if they don't want shopping in their house it says to encourage bags or boxes at their door and not leave trays behind.
Quote from: fatboy on 18-07-19, 09:49AM
Shafted. Why do you say there will be no extra time at the door? People cant unpack their shopping as fast if it ain't bagged so it will take longer. If extra time isn't allowed, I can see deliveries further into the runs being late or even brought back.
Are you a driver? You will be briefed. It talks about supporting us to give a positive spin on this, save the planet, be environmentally more friendly etc, get managers to phone unhappy customers.
The current pay differential between a picker and driver is 43 pence, from September the difference increases to 68 pence so waiting for customer to unpack boxes is being allowed for pay wise.
High turnover in both pickers and drivers to the extent that click & collect flyers were put in order boxes to I guess avoid capping due to lack of staff. Some young pickers jumping ship to checkouts for assumed easier life, as pickers are the most monitored in stores, can't talk, go to toilet etc etc.
From the end of this month Asda getting rid of bagged picks so Tesco hardly leading the way for helping the environment, and of course pick rate will sky-rocket.
Picking not a place for the middle aged.
Asked a driver trainer about this and yes it is happening.
The trials maybe going ahead but they need drivers willing to work these shifts to make it work. I know from talking to drivers in our store that there will be very few. Could need massive recruitment to fill these positions.
Can't keep driver's at my store at least 20 have left in the last 7 months
Quote from: fatboy on 18-07-19, 08:43PM
The trials maybe going ahead but they need drivers willing to work these shifts to make it work. I know from talking to drivers in our store that there will be very few. Could need massive recruitment to fill these positions.
Same at mine, a few have said that if its just 12 hours they wont mind but 4 on 4 off is getting a no from anyone I've spoken to. It is going to be an absolute shambles if they actually go ahead with it
If the problem is just filling the evening runs just hire more drivers that only work the evenings, I rarely have any time gaps as it is I don't see how reducing the hours a van is able to deliver was ever even considered as a good idea for a service where demand out weighs supply. I'd hate to be in the position of whoever came up with this idea when their boss finds out they have lost probably near 50% of their workforce and send their customers to the competition as there are no delivery slots and those that can get slots are laden with late deliveries and constant phone calls as the new workforce cant find their address.
A senior manager told us every store manager has a meeting in wk 23. And now the vans in that wk are going out 30 mins late. Anybody else's have vans going out late next wk?
Quote from: Paupers wage on 18-07-19, 07:25PM
The current pay differential between a picker and driver is 43 pence, from September the difference increases to 68 pence so waiting for customer to unpack boxes is being allowed for pay wise.
High turnover in both pickers and drivers to the extent that click & collect flyers were put in order boxes to I guess avoid capping due to lack of staff. Some young pickers jumping ship to checkouts for assumed easier life, as pickers are the most monitored in stores, can't talk, go to toilet etc etc.
From the end of this month Asda getting rid of bagged picks so Tesco hardly leading the way for helping the environment, and of course pick rate will sky-rocket.
Picking not a place for the middle aged.
Funny how different shops work. Most folk in our store jump to dot com picking for an easy life. Quite frankly it is the easiest job in the shop. You're completely ring fenced, as long as you hit your pick target that's it turn up, do work, go home.
Quote from: Lobbygobbler on 29-07-19, 01:26PM
A senior manager told us every store manager has a meeting in wk 23. And now the vans in that wk are going out 30 mins late. Anybody else's have vans going out late next wk?
They're only going out late to brief cdds for bagless shopping
Will training time support be provided for launch?
On Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday of Week 24 the first vans of each stagger will be scheduled to depart 30 minutes later than normal to help support you briefing your Customer Delivery Drivers.
I've been told 4 stores are trialing new hours what stores I don't no
and been told 4 waves with a pattern like this
group 1 7 to 7
group 2 8 to 8
group 3 9 to 9
group 4 10 to 10
no 10 to 11pm drops
dunno how this would work with driving regs
this is not gospel mind just what I been told
As far as driving regs go then the 11 hour limit on duty hours means that someone doing a 10-10 one day would not be allowed to do an earlier shift (7-7, 8-8 or 9-9) the next day etc. Presumably there is still the flexibility to do a part shift (morning, afternoon, evening)?
If tesco can't keep driver's why not take them off these flexi contracts and give them full time hours that way they would stay instead of been messed about on flexi contracts
Rolling 4 on (44hrs) 3 off over a 14 week period resetting to week 1 at week 15.
8 - 8 with an hour lunch 1 - 2.
Anyone not happy can apply for a fixed hours contract by filling in an availability sheet stating what days/hours they'd be prepared to work. Managers will allocate hours deemed necessary taking into account preferences. Fixed contracts run 9 - 10 and shifts will be any hours between that (max 11).
If you're unable to work the shift offered there's no mediation, it's take it or go.
Redundancy?
4 on /3 off? So you will be working the same days of each week. What about Sunday working?
Personally.. in some of the places where orders are heavier this will be really tough on the drivers. My store is somewhat busy but you're guaranteed at least 40+ ambient trays per run. Even on the evening vans.
I know myself even a fit lad 44 hours would be really pushing my body and especially some of the older guys.
Is this supposed to solve the problem of getting shifts covered? Or is this getting the most out of as little staff as possible?
If I had alternate weekends off as a result it would be worth it but I think it will be a load of p**s to be honest.
Without 3 loading periods the van would need to be taking maximum load out each time no? ..
Probably explains the no bags decision and the increased rate of picking so that a Max load for each run could be achieved
Anyway I personally think it's a terrible idea looking at it from a physical point of view. Its going to take it's toll on drivers and it's going to result in a higher turnover
Would really really love to hear from someone who's on this trial 👌
Rolling 4 on 3 off over a 14 week period. Eg:
Week 1; in Sunday, off Monday, in Tuesday,Wednesday,Thursday, off Friday, Saturday
Week 2; in Sunday/Monday, off Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday, in Friday,Saturday
Week 3; off Sunday, in Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday, off Friday,Saturday
Week 4; off Sunday, in Monday/Tuesday, off Wednesday/Thursday, in Friday/Saturday
Week 5; in Sunday, off Monday/Tuesday, in Wednesday/Thursday/Friday, off Saturday
And so on for 14 weeks then revert to week 1 and start again.
In any 14 week period you get any one day off 6 times, so 6 Sundays in 14, 6 Mondays etc and 3 days in a row 6 times (though you'll have worked 4 in a row!). You always get 2 consecutive days off every week. Only 14 drivers can work on this pattern, the rest will be put on fixed contracts
By choosing a rolling shift you automatically opt in to work Sundays. If you can't/won't do Sundays or you want to work less than 44hrs then you have to apply for the fixed contract by filling in an availability sheet giving hours and days you will work. A rota will then be created and the shifts you are to work will be given to you, if you don't like that shift pattern it's very much take it or leave it. Similarly if you state you're prepared to work between 30 and 36hrs but the only hours available are 29 you'll be told there's no shift for you, thanks and goodbye.
Redundancy?
And what happens when most of the drivers on the rolling contract subsequently opt out of Sunday working as is their right?
And also what happens if none of the drivers agree to go onto the new rolling contract?
A new starter or an existing employee may agree to the 4-3 rolling contract, then sometime in the future, due to necessity, drop Sunday working this would be an act that they must not be penalised for.
Quote from: fatboy on 11-08-19, 10:42AM
And also what happens if none of the drivers agree to go onto the new rolling contract?
I don't know about other stores but we can't get enough drivers now. And with the increase in van loads and the pretend pay rise many are looking elsewhere for work.
It just shows how distant head office and those deciding these things are from what is happening on the shop floor.
Yes same in our store. We keep recruiting new drivers & within a few weeks they're gone. Must cost a fortune to keep recruiting newbies & putting them through all the training for the sake of a few weeks. Cant see this rolling contract working at all. But as you mention, the people making these decisions are completely oblivious to the real world. Also remember how tough it was a few weeks ago when the temperature was in the mid 30's? Imagine doing a 12 hour shift in that without air con in the Van's. People will drop like flies.
What would be deemed a necessity that would allow you to opt out of Sundays despite deliberately signing the rolling contract and therefore automatically opting in?
Surely they'll just say, you said you'd do it now you're in breach of contract.
And if one does and gets Sundays off then others will want to do the same.
Think they're going about it the wrong way, at the moment max hours any of our drivers do are 36.5
Would've been better to make the rolling shift 3 on 4 off. Max 36hrs. More drivers likely to sign up for that!
https://worksmart.org.uk/work-rights/pay-and-contracts/hours-work/what-are-restrictions-sunday-working-retail-and-betting
You have a legal right to opt out of Sunday working, regardless of your contract. Indeed you should be informed of that right when you sign the contract. You don't need to give a reason. So if you agree to work Sundays, then further down the line decide to serve the optout form giving 3 months notice, ( 1 month if you weren't informed of your right to optout) you will not be in breach of contract, you cannot suffer a detriment because of your decision by being dismissed or held at a disadvantage.
If the others want to do the same, they can. Your not letting them down by not working, they get to choose same as you.
Err....beat me to it while I was typing gomezz, your reply gets straight to the point :thumbup:
Think every driver would sign up to 3 on 4 off including me!
Sorry, my "due to necessity" comment was unnecessary and perhaps misled some, I was trying to imply that some may have a need to drop Sunday working, but as has been said no reason is needed and none has to be given.
Tesco does not have a 3 month policy on this as referred to the work smart website tescos policy is,
"You just need to complete an 'Opt-Out of Sunday working' form and hand it to your manager.
Your manager will arrange to meet with you to understand if you would like to work alternative hours, and if so, whether these hours are available.
They will also agree the date when you stop working on a Sunday if you would like this to be as soon as possible rather than in one month's time."
So it would be as soon as possible on an agreed date up to 1 month as per policy for opting out
The one possible loophole the company may try to exploit is to argue that dot.com drivers do not count as retail workers for the purpose of the law. No idea if that has ever been challenged in court.
https://www.gov.uk/sunday-working (https://www.gov.uk/sunday-working)
This does mention a little bit about non retail and betting shop workers working sunday, basically says they can't be forced to unless they've agreed to it and it's in their contract.
I would think unless they were based in a dark store, they would be classed as retail workers. They clock in, in a trading store, and they do picks on the shop floor when required.
Is there a premium being paid as this becomes unsociable
The driver premium payment is being increased from September.
Quote from: Villager No.6 on 11-08-19, 01:02PM
What would be deemed a necessity that would allow you to opt out of Sundays despite deliberately signing the rolling contract and therefore automatically opting in?
Surely they'll just say, you said you'd do it now you're in breach of contract.
And if one does and gets Sundays off then others will want to do the same.
Think they're going about it the wrong way, at the moment max hours any of our drivers do are 36.5
Would've been better to make the rolling shift 3 on 4 off. Max 36hrs. More drivers likely to sign up for that!
You don't have to have a necessity hun...its your right :-[
Is this trial actually taking place as we speak? Would have thought someone from a trial store would have poked their head in and confirmed / denied the guessed shift patterns?
Quote from: robbie34 on 11-08-19, 06:51PM
Is there a premium being paid as this becomes unsociable
Same premium payments as the rest of the hourly paid colleagues, they do get an enhanced skills payment in September but that's all.
Someone has poked their head into another place and confirmed the trial is happening.
Quote from: fatboy on 11-08-19, 06:53PM
The driver premium payment is being increased from September.
Still going to be behind what a shop floor worker in all the other big four supermarkets is being paid.....
What they seem to forget is that people have lives away from Tesco and do shifts which fit into that pattern. Are they going to expect us to drop everything and change our lives all around just to fit in with what they want?
Of course they are, we're talking Tesco here. They no longer care about personal life just themselves.
All very cloak n dagger? Still nothing confirmed anywhere any ideas people.
If you can have a look at Ourtesco for latest updates. Should find meeting summary for meeting one. Or try www.OurTesco.com/people-changes/stores/latest updates.
Main points are :- Trailing the introduction of a 44 hour 4 day rolling week shift pattern for drivers. (I think this should be trialling !)
Pilot in 4 stores - Bedworth, Coventry Arena, Solihull and Basildon.
New driver schedules will enable colleagues to be more flexible and have longer hours. Ability to do 44 hour
contract on rolling rota.
Any ideas what " 44 hour 4 day rolling week shift pattern" or "44 hour rolling rota" means ?
Apparently a meeting is taking place down south regarding optimisation and hours this week!
Quote from: gollyg on 19-08-19, 01:48PM
If you can have a look at Ourtesco for latest updates. Should find meeting summary for meeting one. Or try www.OurTesco.com/people-changes/stores/latest updates.
Main points are :- Trailing the introduction of a 44 hour 4 day rolling week shift pattern for drivers. (I think this should be trialling !)
Pilot in 4 stores - Bedworth, Coventry Arena, Solihull and Basildon.
New driver schedules will enable colleagues to be more flexible and have longer hours. Ability to do 44 hour
contract on rolling rota.
Any ideas what " 44 hour 4 day rolling week shift pattern" or "44 hour rolling rota" means ?
I would imagine that 44 hour rolling week, rolling rota would mean 4 days on, 4 days off? So it would be Monday-Thursday working, Friday - Monday off, Tuesday- Friday working, Saturday- Tuesday off etc...which in principle would only work if drivers were happy to work Sundays? But if they choose to opt out of Sunday working, then it's stuffed ???
I'd imagine the jobs the job
Even if drivers opt out of sunday working, they would still need to be available 8am to 10pm monday to Saturday as working days would be constantly changing. Cant see that happening, at least not the drivers in my store. As lots of drivers work part time hours around other jobs/commitments.
I'd love to know how the company expects to implement rolling rotas for drivers. One of the first things to be checked and amended during the ongoing Data Cleanse was that no colleagues were on a rolling rota on the HRAM system. All colleagues on a rolling rota had to be given a set pattern and then amendments put in each week for any changes.
Left hand not knowing what the right is doing...TESCO.....now I know what ya all thinking, but keep it clean please ;)
The more speculation the less information never known anything so cloak n dagger. If it's on trial in store can't imagine not 1 driver has mentioned it
Lucgeo
Rolling 44hr contract explained in post 53. (In any one week 4 on 8am - 8pm 1hr break, 3 off) A friend of mine works in one of the four trial stores and has confirmed it.
Fixed contract they've been told will be made up of at least two 9am - 10pm shifts (with two 1hr breaks) and either a Saturday 9am - 5pm or Sunday 9am - 3pm. The shorter hrs on Saturday only if you're not contracted to do it as a full day ie 9-10.
There are fewer rolling contracts available than fixed, rolling will be given to the "best" drivers (driving record/availability/fewest disciplineries etc) in the event more opt for rolling over fixed and fixed offered to the others.
And it's not actually a trial, it's a pilot. It will roll out to all stores soon.
The meeting notes on our tesco are hilarious;
Quote
Turnover of drivers has increased over the past couple of years, which in turn means recruitment, and training of drivers has increased.
? Introduce a new customer delivery driver shift structure to improve retention and increase flexibility.
I can only see turnover increasing with the new shift structure they've got planned. Turnover has increased because they are pushing drivers to the limit and the joke that is bumblebee not because the shift pattern doesn't work.
In meeting notes 2 it appears they are trying to increase our notice period to 4 weeks but usdaw have rejected it.
I think it's time to start looking for another job.
I'm intrigued to see how it works in stores that don't start Sunday runs till 1 o'clock, plus how it affects all part-time colleagues - students, those with a second job. That will cause a massive headache for many.
@villager No 6
Thanks for that...having read it, why they just can't give people 3 days off in a row, which I'm sure most would prefer.
If they are automatically opted in for Sunday working, and those that don't want to work Sunday's can't be considered, there's still nothing to stop them opting out further down the line...what happens then??
I,am not sure that drivers are covered by the Sunday opt out!
Will be looking for another job
Quote from: baldeagle on 22-08-19, 10:07AM
I,am not sure that drivers are covered by the Sunday opt out!
They are.
Everyone can opt out, it's a legal right.
Legal Q&A: Sunday working
By Joanna Dodd on 16 Sep 2013 in Employment law, Equality & diversity, Religion, Legal Q&A, Employment contracts, Working Time Regulations
Joanna Dodd, senior associate at Clarion, answers employers' questions on the law relating to Sunday working.
Can I make my employees work on Sundays?
In most industries, the answer is yes – as long as it is written into the employees' employment contracts. However, special rules apply to employees who work in shops and betting shops. They have a right to opt out of Sunday working by giving their employer a signed and dated notice, which will take effect after three months. In addition, the retailers or betting businesses must inform their employees of their right to opt out.
Apologies, I should have included it was everyone's legal right "in retail"
I note on the Sunday opt in/ opt out forms that only one months notice is required.
So I will go back to my original question. Is a driver a retail worker or a transport worker in this case.
A driver working for a supermarket is classed as retail job.
Quote from: Villager No.6 on 21-08-19, 09:02PM
Lucgeo
Rolling 44hr contract explained in post 53. (In any one week 4 on 8am - 8pm 1hr break, 3 off) A friend of mine works in one of the four trial stores and has confirmed it.
Fixed contract they've been told will be made up of at least two 9am - 10pm shifts (with two 1hr breaks) and either a Saturday 9am - 5pm or Sunday 9am - 3pm. The shorter hrs on Saturday only if you're not contracted to do it as a full day ie 9-10.
There are fewer rolling contracts available than fixed, rolling will be given to the "best" drivers (driving record/availability/fewest disciplineries etc) in the event more opt for rolling over fixed and fixed offered to the others.
And it's not actually a trial, it's a pilot. It will roll out to all 🏬 soon.
Any idea what that means for team supports? Do they do same shift? And what about the manager?
Only drivers affected, Team support/managers etc stay as they are.
So for those going for the fixed contract, what are the other shift patterns like other than 9-10?
There are no other shift patterns.
Fixed contracts are all 9 - 10 unless you're offered less than 44hrs in which case you'll work a part day one day a week if more than 33hrs.
My friend's been offered the fixed @44hrs, his hours will be Sunday off, Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday 9-10, Thursday/Friday off, Saturday 9-10.
9-10 shift will be 9-1 out, 1-2 break, 2-5 out, 5-6 break, 6-10 out.
8 drivers not offered either contract as hours/days they said they were willing to work on their availability forms didn't meet the new contracts, or their driver rating (unapproved days off/accidents/complaints etc) wasn't good enough, all given redundancy.
4 drivers "at risk" as they've been given hours that they need to agree to and are thinking about it. If they choose not to accept they will be let go with no redundancy as they've been offered hours they said they would be prepared to do. One driver put availability for every day as he hoped to get the rolling contract which would allow him and his partner a few weekends together over the 14 week rolling pattern but he wasn't successful, his fixed contract has him in every weekend.
Original number of drivers c42, number of drivers needed on the new contracts c30.
All coming to your store soon.
Ok, thank you for the update. Do you get the choice of a rolling or fixed contract, or does everyone just get a sheet to fill out with their availability?
Thank you Villager No.6. Do you or anyone know if this pilot is going to be rolled out Nationwide or in stages area by area. And any timescales. Would be interested to know if this is going to be this side of xmas in my store.
On your availability sheet you can state your preference so if you wanted the fixed you could say that and you'd only be considered for that pattern.
No idea on timescales, my friend's been told there's no going back, this is the new pattern and it'll be rolled out to all stores.
I've asked about it at my store and have been told it's in the pipeline but they can't tell us anything as they don't know much about it...
Quote from: Villager No.6 on 11-08-19, 08:59AM
Rolling 4 on 3 off over a 14 week period. Eg:
Week 1; in Sunday, off Monday, in Tuesday,Wednesday,Thursday, off Friday, Saturday
Week 2; in Sunday/Monday, off Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday, in Friday,Saturday
Week 3; off Sunday, in Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday, off Friday,Saturday
Week 4; off Sunday, in Monday/Tuesday, off Wednesday/Thursday, in Friday/Saturday
Week 5; in Sunday, off Monday/Tuesday, in Wednesday/Thursday/Friday, off Saturday
And so on for 14 weeks then revert to week 1 and start again.
In any 14 week period you get any one day off 6 times, so 6 Sundays in 14, 6 Mondays etc and 3 days in a row 6 times (though you'll have worked 4 in a row!). You always get 2 consecutive days off every week. Only 14 drivers can work on this pattern, the rest will be put on fixed contracts
By choosing a rolling shift you automatically opt in to work Sundays. If you can't/won't do Sundays or you want to work less than 44hrs then you have to apply for the fixed contract by filling in an availability sheet giving hours and days you will work. A rota will then be created and the shifts you are to work will be given to you, if you don't like that shift pattern it's very much take it or leave it. Similarly if you state you're prepared to work between 30 and 36hrs but the only hours available are 29 you'll be told there's no shift for you, thanks and goodbye.
I take it being 14 drivers on the rolling contract is depending on the number of vans your store has?
Done my first ever cv looks like me and Tesco will be parting company very soon, also know lots of the other drivers at my store will be doing the same, Tesco know how to mess things up big time this system will not keep drivers
Can't see it being b4 Xmas too much messing not idea would have been pre summer dip
I know of at least 2 of our drivers applying for other jobs outside of tesco due to the upcoming changes. Gonna need to recruit a whole load of new drivers if this is rolled out & lose all the experience.
Sonic8610
That would make sense I guess, got the numbers from my friend. That's how many were available at his store.
Villager No.6
Thank you. It'll be interesting when it does come to my store, will happen when they eventually start 8am deliveries on a Sunday - instead of starting at 1pm. Plus there'll be a lot of drivers who won't be happy to do so many late finishes, working at the weekend, etc. Also we have a fair number of students who do evenings and weekends. Think some will be expecting their contracts to be bought out.
As I've said before, they are expecting us all to give up all our commitments away from tesco and put them first. Not going to happen!
And with these rotas what will happen with holiday entitlements? Mine goes up by another three days from next March but I have a feeling that I will lose those and some more with what they are proposing.
It will mean less staff, so less holidays to give out which will be less shifts to cover. All about saving money for them.
I suspect they will lose more drivers unhappy with this change than they will gain from people looking for full time hours. And the ones they will lose will be experienced old hands and the ones they will gain will be inexperienced green horns. Productivity will fall through the floor.
Personally, it took me ten years to move my Saturday shift to a weekday, sticking my oar in whenever there were shift changes and number of van changes in the mix and eventually hit a change that suited the company as well. I don't mind being flexible and work some weekends but prefer it to be on my terms as some weekends are free for me to do and some are not - no regular pattern but averaging out at one in two.
"Productivity will fall through the floor."
With the van damage going entirely in the opposite direction!
Agreed, the vans are not of great quality - though mind you some of the drivers' driving ability is very questionable ;D
There will also be the chancers - at least at my store - who will try for the 8-8 shifts to be fixed days or not having to do weekends for 3 or 4 weekday shifts. But then the moaners and complainers are the first to cry 'favouritism' if someone gets 4 day shifts a week or gets the weekend off - even though they don't work weekends or already have 4 day shifts. Double standards!
How does Tesco new pay rate for customer delivery drivers stack up now compared to the competition? 44 hours is a good amount of hours, but I can see it putting people off, especially if the hourly rate is better at Sainsburies, Amazon etc.
Use to work 9am till 10 pm years ago. Wouldn't like to go back to them days. At the end of a busy day fatigue hits you, had some close calls with the van.
Exactly my thoughts. Safety of the driver is unfortunately put to the back of the pile. If you have a busy 10hr shift now, it can be very tiring. 12 or 13 hour shifts is just an accident waiting to happen.
Quote from: helpme on 01-09-19, 09:49AM
As I've said before, they are expecting us all to give up all our commitments away from tesco and put them first. Not going to happen!
And with these rotas what will happen with holiday entitlements? Mine goes up by another three days from next March but I have a feeling that I will lose those and some more with what they are proposing.
They can't take your 3 days for years of employment holiday allowance away from you, without going through consultations with USDAW as that allowance is in everyone's T&C's. Let them worry about fitting your extra days in, there's probably other drivers on the longer entitlement.
Sainsbury's driver rate is £9.95 per hour
So it seems even with their pay review where drivers will be paid £9.68 in September and £9.98 October next year they still can't beat Sainsburies rate of pay of £9.95, in March they have a pay review as well.
If any thing like the last pay review they gave with one hand then took with the other . Market supplement went down in my store . But still pile on the work . It's getting to a point the van are falling to bits dirty inside not enough time to clean them morale at a all time low . But the managers walk around in rose tinted glasses
don't forget they wont even supply things to clean your van if you have the time to do it in my store the vans everyday now have more trays than they can hold in the ambient
Will be 50/50 I guess some will love it others won't, but less headcount uniform etc has to be a bonus for the company
There's a point where less headcount will directly effect revenues in a negative way, if the new system and remuneration package in place isn't an attractive enough proposition to attract or retain employees, then the company will have to rely on using their existing resources for overtime, it will get to a certain point where the operational integrity will be compromised leading to the inability to service the customer, which will lead to the customer looking at competitors (Sainsburies, Amazon, Ocado) for the service depriving Tesco of that revenue stream. This will lead toTesco doing one of 2 things, paying competitive rates and offering better conditions or withdrawing from that section of the business to "go back to basics".
All anybody's talking about in my store! Imagine something has to be said soon
Other bizarre situation is you can't finish at 10pm and start 9am but can do a 9am to 10pm shift????
Find it very strange that no one has posted any further details on this subject. If there's people out there doing these new shifts/hours you'd have thought there would have been more facts posted.
From Our Tesco
Dot Com Drivers – Update from Meeting 1
It has been highlighted to the project team that the Summary from Collective Consultation Meeting 1
only included information on the rolling rota for the Customer Delivery Driver rota pilot, and did not
include information on the second option of a fixed shift pattern. To clarify, there are two rotas
available to colleagues – a rolling, 4 days a week, 44 hours per week rota, and an alternative rota that is
able to accommodate colleagues on a part-time basis all the way up to 44 hours, working set
shifts/days per week.
N.B. This is an update only and was not part of the discussion during the collective consultation meeting on the 20th August 2019.
Quote from: rogerthedodger on 06-09-19, 01:27PM
Other bizarre situation is you can't finish at 10pm and start 9am but can do a 9am to 10pm shift????
It's to do with duty time exceeding 11hours in a 24 hour period, i.e 6pm to 10pm = 4 hours, 9am to 1.15pm = 4.25 hours 2.15pm to 5pm = 2.75 hours and that's your 11 hours so the 5pm to 6pm part of your shift is illegal before resetting at 6pm.
The 9am to 10 am is fine since 13 hours - 2hours for breaks = 11hours with the 24 hour period resetting at 9am the next day.
Quote from: NightAndDay on 04-09-19, 02:08PM
There's a point where less headcount will directly effect revenues in a negative way, if the new system and remuneration package in place isn't an attractive enough proposition to attract or retain employees, then the company will have to rely on using their existing resources for overtime, it will get to a certain point where the operational integrity will be compromised leading to the inability to service the customer, which will lead to the customer looking at competitors (Sainsburies, Amazon, Ocado) for the service depriving Tesco of that revenue stream. This will lead toTesco doing one of 2 things, paying competitive rates and offering better conditions or withdrawing from that section of the business to "go back to basics".
Dot Com are a waste of time, space and money. With any luck, even the morons at head office will finally understand that and shut it down completely.
Dot com is run by Morons from the top down. Tesco like to get there pound of flesh rather then being open about there plans. Christmas round the corner so only going to get worse.
Quote from: driverdave on 06-09-19, 10:10PM
From Our Tesco
Dot Com Drivers – Update from Meeting 1
It has been highlighted to the project team that the Summary from Collective Consultation Meeting 1
only included information on the rolling rota for the Customer Delivery Driver rota pilot, and did not
include information on the second option of a fixed shift pattern. To clarify, there are two rotas
available to colleagues – a rolling, 4 days a week, 44 hours per week rota, and an alternative rota that is
able to accommodate colleagues on a part-time basis all the way up to 44 hours, working set
shifts/days per week.
N.B. This is an update only and was not part of the discussion during the collective consultation meeting on the 20th August 2019.
Can't find this, can you link it please?
I take it that's the first official confirmation unless I missed something.
https://www.ourtesco.com/people-changes/stores/latest-updates-2/ (https://www.ourtesco.com/people-changes/stores/latest-updates-2/)
Brings up a page where you can download the details of several collective consultation meetings.
Thanks!
Going mental in my store, all anyone is talking about. Lots of confusion and upset people.
Anything further on this ? How's it going in the pilot stores ?
Starts on 1st October but resentment toward 8-8 rolling shift colleagues by 9-10 ones has already started at my friend's store. The 9-10 think they're going to be doing more than the rolling shift.
8-8 are to go out twice a day in two 5 1/2hr waves, 8-1.30, 2.30-8 and obviously max weight of 860kg means in all likelihood max 17-18 drops/wave as now on a morning 4hr and afternoon 5hr shift.
9-10 go out three times so possible 15-16 drops in wave one, 9-1, 4hrs, 12 drops in wave two, 2-5, 3hrs and another 15-16 drops in wave three, 6-10, 4hrs.
Time will tell if it is this way.
If this is a pilot starting on Oct 1st in these 4 stores, anyone know how long the pilot is for. Month, 3 months or more?
The pilot in the 4 stores started ages ago. Dont know where the Oct 1st date has come from.
Fatboy. My friend's store is one of the four Pilot Stores and they're starting the new hours on 1st October. It couldn't start any earlier because of the notice period requirement for contract changes and redundancy notice.
I have seen someone mention that the new shift system is not intended for stores only running a few vans eg six. Anyone know anything about this?
Not personally heard this but it would make sense. Would also be interesting to know how many Van's the pilot stores are running.
Friend's store has 16 vans that go out in two waves of 8.
Well 2nd day in and just heard from my friend that the drop numbers guessed at in post 141 are true.
9-10 shift drivers aggrieved that they are doing at least 10 more drops/day than the 8-8s.
8-8s are getting 16-17 first wave and 16-17 second wave so max of 34.
9-10s getting 15-16 first wave, 10-13 second wave and 15-16 third wave so max of 45.
A few 9-10s already saying they're knackered and one saying they're going as soon as they get another job.
Cover for holidays and sickness supposedly coming from drivers doing overtime, some 8-8s happy to do it, no 9-10s are.
There's a board up in the staff area asking if any existing colleagues have "Ever thought of becoming a Customer Delivery Driver?" They're looking for existing colleagues to multi skill for O/T and earn an extra 68p/hr skills payment.
Shame they made so many skilled drivers redundant recently, they could've done that........
Surely having such long driving shifts will lead to fatigue and risk more accidents as the drivers will be knackered after a few 12/13hr shifts at the wheel.
In our store there are several drivers that will go on sick or light duties as soon as they get 2 big runs which total 25-26 drops. If they were to have 30 or 40+ there would definately be a struggle to get enough drivers every day.
Had 28 drops today from 8am to 6pm ready for my tea and an early night. Wouldn't like to think I was going back out with another van full till 10pm, accidents going to happen.
Clearly whoever has come up with this plan hasn't spent a day in dot com before. Last week I had a 700+kg morning and a 800+kg afternoon on this new pattern there's bound to be runs that come down with similar with an added 600+kg for the evening and the whole reason for this is to retain more drivers someones going to have a surprise when they see the opposite.
Multi skilling shop floor staff as drivers is going to send the damage budget well in to the red, going to have to get the 14 plate iveco fleet back from the scrap yard.
if these changes are brought in, what are the criteria for redundancy?
i imagine availability is the key factor but if they have too many drivers available what happens then? I can see performance being factored in.
Does tenure come into play? i'm a new driver but have 10+ years service with the company, would my length of service count from my start date or with my time in the role?
Redundancy would be offered if either the position doesn't exist anymore or if there's been significant changes to the role. In the event that they do cut back on dot com or the amount of drivers there has to be a fair transparant selection process on who they keep on, length of service with the company (not the role) will be one of the factors.
thanks for the reply
Anybody know anything about the 25 urban fulfillment centres they plan to open over the next 3 years
First one is West Bromwich opened by March next year. They already have the space for it so new building required. When the shop was built 2013/2014ish they made the shop floor space small. So they have almost a super store size shop sitting empty. And 1 point in the news it was reported it was going to become an gym. But it’s been sat empty since it open. So I guess it great for Tesco no building work required just the fitting out of it.
So are they taking dotcom out of local store and all running from 1 fulfillment centres?
Pretty much. There will 25 Dotcom locations. With in UK.
strange that asda closed most of their dark.com stores down,now tesco plans to open some??,cant see it working in rural locations such as parts of scotland,cornwall ect
Quote from: NightAndDay on 04-10-19, 10:33AM
Redundancy would be offered if either the position doesn't exist any more or if there's been significant changes to the role. In the event that they do cut back on dot com or the amount of drivers there has to be a fair transparent selection process on who they keep on, length of service with the company (not the role) will be one of the factors.
It may not be one as it hasn't been used more recently in other similar situations. It was I think a very last resort.
I've just heard of this odd idea in my store (12 vans), and I can't say I'm liking it. I hope it isn't rolled out everywhere.
I barely have the stamina for the current 0830 to 1900 shifts. Lol
Yes, we load our own vans. (For now).
I don't think I could do the job much longer than that, not to mention, when am I supposed to get a good meal in, now there's no staff cafe? I don't want to live off ready meals and pot noodles!
This is making an already unhealthy job, more unhealthy, and frankly dangerous.
Have any of the bosses tried concentrating on driving for the full 12 hours? No, breaks don't count, because they also make you tired. This is going to cause more damage, and more sickness, which will of course be our fault, and drive moral even lower than it already is.
I wonder what Usdaw collective bargaining position is regarding the 44 hour week?
Considering that Usdaw Rule 6 states "to obtain a maximum working week of 40 hours or less".
Is the National Officer disregarding this Rule?
Quote from: Shafted on 06-10-19, 06:15PM
Quote from: NightAndDay on 04-10-19, 10:33AM
Redundancy would be offered if either the position doesn't exist any more or if there's been significant changes to the role. In the event that they do cut back on dot com or the amount of drivers there has to be a fair transparent selection process on who they keep on, length of service with the company (not the role) will be one of the factors.
It may not be one as it hasn’t been used more recently in other similar situations. It was I think a very last resort.
Length of service would be one, the main reason being that longer servers would command higher redundancy payout. It's good business sense to retain the longer servers where possible.
In my area, they're advertising for 5 hour shifts?
Cosmicspacehead has it spot on. There won't be many drivers have the stamina to do the new proposed shifts. We have a lot of older, long term drivers who struggle with the heavy shifts now. They say they are doing this to try to retain the drivers by offering better hours & pay & to decrease the turnover of drivers, but I personally think it will have completely the opposite effect. More drivers are gonna leave & recruitment will soar. Good experienced drivers will leave by the bucket load but the powers that be dont seem to see this.
Lucego, what hours are the 5 hour shift for?
One shift 8-1pm, two shifts 7-12 noon, one shift 7-11am....18 hour flexi contract
I had a look the other day at driver vacancies around the UK there were a few that had some weird shift patterns,
Hull East Yorkshire HU6 7XP - 10-8 and 8 to 5
Dorset Dt1 2ry - 8 to 5, 10-7pm and 12-9
Haverfordwest Pembrokeshire SA61 1BU - 4-8, 430-10, 2-8 and 1145-5
Quote from: fatboy on 14-10-19, 09:53PM
Cosmicspacehead has it spot on. There won't be many drivers have the stamina to do the new proposed shifts. We have a lot of older, long term drivers who struggle with the heavy shifts now. They say they are doing this to try to retain the drivers by offering better hours & pay & to decrease the turnover of drivers, but I personally think it will have completely the opposite effect. More drivers are gonna leave & recruitment will soar. Good experienced drivers will leave by the bucket load but the powers that be dont seem to see this.
Most of the drivers (especially the older, or more experienced ones) have already stated they'll take redundancy if these hours go ahead.
Almost no one wants to spend an entire day in a van, and we already lift 500-800kg 5 times a day.
(Loading, unloading, reloading, unloading, and reloading again).
My back is dodgy as it is. Lol
I'll welcome redundancy too!
Apparently, our local Asda has gone to 8AM to 10PM shifts, so 14 hour shifts! Although, I can't confirm this , as it's just hearsay for now.
My dotcom manager told me that redundancy wouldn't be an option.
I'm unsure how it would be a redundancy issue, unless I've missed a post that gives a reason as to why ???
There are a few things drivers could do, if they are having difficulty with the new hours...
1. Form and present a collective grievance.
2. Ask for a capability study
3. All go off sick in the same week with bad backs, let the managers go out and see for themselves!
All rumours as it stands think only 1 post from anyone with real info and that’s from a friend, if it was a bad as it being made out,
A. It won’t get rolled out and
B. I’m sure we’d have heard much more noise
Is it not a redundancy issue if the job no longer exists? Post 104 suggests that one of the pilot stores is dropping from 42 drivers to 30, and post 144 mentions delays to the roll out due to notice periods for redundancy and contract changes.
Roger this is Tesco we're talking about if it is as bad as its being made out to be they will go ahead regardless as it suits them and there is a chance that none of the drivers in the trial stores are on VLH I'm sure we would have heard some information from them good or bad if they were it is only 4 stores taking part.
Quote from: lucgeo on 23-10-19, 06:19AM
I'm unsure how it would be a redundancy issue, unless I've missed a post that gives a reason as to why ???
There are a few things drivers could do, if they are having difficulty with the new hours...
1. Form and present a collective grievance.
2. Ask for a capability study
3. All go off sick in the same week with bad backs, let the managers go out and see for themselves!
We've already decided that if 12-14 hour shifts come in, and we can't take redundancy, we're all just going to bring our last wave orders back and say we're too tired to drive safely anymore. Which for the most part will be true.
I already struggle with working until 10pm, even if I started at 6pm, because I still wake up when my girlfriend gets up for work at 7am. So I have to grab a little nap in the day.
Quote from: blueberet on 23-10-19, 10:21AM
Is it not a redundancy issue if the job no longer exists? Post 104 suggests that one of the pilot stores is dropping from 42 drivers to 30, and post 144 mentions delays to the roll out due to notice periods for redundancy and contract changes.
Roger this is Tesco we're talking about if it is as bad as its being made out to be they will go ahead regardless as it suits them and there is a chance that none of the drivers in the trial stores are on VLH I'm sure we would have heard some information from them good or bad if they were it is only 4 stores taking part.
Then I stand corrected...I didn't scroll back too far as the topic is shift changes....if drivers are being dropped, then those affected should be offered redundancy and hence delays due to notice periods for redundancy.
Hopefully “urban fulfilment centres†come first before this.
All seems very quiet on this at the moment
Been on holiday.
Update to post 148.
One 9-10 driver leaving this week, said he’s physically and emotionally wrecked. Lives a 40min drive from store so not getting home until nearly 11pm where his bit of the family meal is sitting in the microwave. Has to creep round the house as wife and kids asleep. Gets to bed around 11.45 then back up again at 6.30 with wife getting ready for work/kids for school then leaves for work at 8 to battle with traffic for the 9am start. Got himself a job delivering car parts 8-5 five days a week, weekends off happy to lose £25/wk and 10% discount.
He’s said the 8-8 drivers have it easy(ier) as their vans are loaded for them in the morning but only a few 9-10 vans are so most days is loading his first run as well as the other two and has been averaging 40 drops where 8-8 getting 34.
Might suit the younger of you out there but I’m in my 60’s and have already made my mind up to go when this ridiculous shift pattern comes to my store.
Same, I'm 56 been doing job cdd 15 years now.....NO Chance of me doing them silly hours either :(
I'm only 36, and live 15 minutes away, and I'm not doing them either. Some of our drivers travel 30-40 minutes to get to work, so they'll be absolutely shattered. I can imagine them not being in the safe state to even drive home after work.
I'm wondering if they'll change their mind when the accidents and law suites still rolling in. It's only a matter of time before an exhausted driver nods off either in a van, or their own car, and kills themselves and/or someone else.
Although Tesco would probably still want you to come in either way.
No idea how this would work at our store, every delivery slot is taken, plus we usually end up with some unrouted, we have 14 vans.
Having 2 heavy 800kg+ runs twice a day of 50/50 flats/houses with difficult parking meaning about half the time you need to trolley it, doing 3 runs i dont think anyone would be able to cope.
Even Sundays are getting bad, I had 17 drops yesterday that was magically 859kg - I would loved to have put the van over a weighbridge to check, I knew it was heavy when loading and most trays had drinks and things in, 65 ambient, 24 chilled and 15 frozen - we do have a van loader for Sunday, but 1 person for 3 hours before he has his break and drives his van means only half are loaded.
My first 3 were flats, next was an old cottage on a highstreet with cars parked both sides, I parked about 300m away and used the trolley to take the 6 trays the whole way, the whole day was hard drops. By the end of the shift I was ready for a rest, doing the same again for another run would have been bad enough, 2 more like that I dread to think how hard it would be.
I received a parcel delivery yesterday, on the email advising me of its ETA, there was also a Zero Tolerance paragraph, and in this it stated that all their drivers are equipped with a monitoring device to record every delivery.
Now there's a thought 8-)
They can't even glue the cameras to the van windscreen properly (most of ours are hanging off by the wiring held roughly in place by the passenger visor.
Any updates on how these trials are going?
Oh my god, glad I got out of there in February, I spent just short of 12 years at Tesco, they changed my hours and put me back on nights late last year, even though I was a carer, this would of sent me over the edge I think.
Sambo......what's that got to do with the dotcom shift change trial???
ANY NEWS ON THIS TOPIC
[admin]No need to shout.[/admin]
Gone very quiet on this, how come anyone who is doing these shifts has said nowt. We all know some thing is going on, but what :question:
Heard one (unsubstantiated) rumour that is has been scrapped. Though that is no comfort to the (ex)drivers who have had their life messed around with.
I know things are quiet on the matter but I'm sure if it had been scrapped we would have heard.
No news about any change at my store, any questions about it just get shrugged off with “Not heard anything other than some stores are trialling itâ€
My friend’s store still doing it and he really doesn’t like it though he says the three full days off he gets now are better than the two non sequential days he used to have.
The 8am - 8pm shift definitely easier than the 9am - 10pm and he and the other later shift drivers are asking if that shift could be changed to 9 - 9 or 10 - 10 with one 1hr break like the 8 - 8 shift get as its really tiring being at the store for 13hrs four days a week but it’s falling on deaf ears.
Well had my availability meeting today (work 2 days), can you do a late run Sat/ Sunday, er No. Find out Thursday if owt offered, oh we have 66% driver turnover. Ie drivers that have left..( wonder why). Tesco say it's a monetary problem, as in late shift 4 hours £35, hmmm cannot get drivers to work nights or weekends. Looks like I'm gone after 12 years, love the job but no thanks.
Quote from: piaggio1 on 16-01-20, 11:38PM
Tesco say it's a monetary problem
Well, there is a VERY easy solution to that aspect without forcing people to move and/or leave!!!
Apparently it has gone mostly well in the pilot stores, but they’ve run into a few problems and one of them is covering drivers on holidays. There won’t be anything changing in the next 6 months.
Why have my posts been moderated/edited?
[admin]I have sent you an email[/admin]
The only poster that was actually in contact with someone taking part in the trial has their posts deleted what's actually going on here?
[admin]During a recent re-install of the software some posts were corrupted and would not display, they were NOT deleted. We have been slowly trying to repair/recover these posts, hence you will see on them a "Edit by Nomad" marker. All posts made since the re-install are OK. Nothing underhand no conspiracy just a bug. [/admin]
A store near ours is in the trial and once again it highlights the management culture of moral cowardice. None of the drivers like it for various reasons and they have told their managers that. But once again management put their own jobs first and say what senior management wants to hear rather than the truth.
This will probably be rolled out eventually & what I see happening is the current drivers will agree to the new shifts just to stay employed but as soon as they find alternative employment they will then leave & Tesco will then be in the s*** because they will struggle to recruit new drivers willing to do these hours.
Our lead manager has already made it clear they want the new system in place as it will mean the longer serving drivers leaving. They don't like the fact that we won't just keep our mouths shut and do as we're told.
Some of the long serving drivers probably will leave but the problem will arise when they try to replace them.
Why would any sane manager want to get rid of experienced drivers who get the job done in spite of all and move to an ever-revolving door of newbies who can't or won't hack it and are detrimental to the manager's performance assessment? If the manager is doing the job properly then they will have no problem keeping the experienced drivers onside.
It's all part of the plan to reduce redundancy costs, the more long time servers they can get rid of through arbitrary performance measures, questionable procedures or "managing out the business" on departments they plan to streamline or cut off, the more money goes into the CEOs back pocket and the happier the shareholders.
Quote from: gomezz on 04-03-20, 08:27PM
Why would any sane manager want to get rid of experienced drivers who get the job done in spite of all and move to an ever-revolving door of newbies who can't or won't hack it and are detrimental to the manager's performance assessment? If the manager is doing the job properly then they will have no problem keeping the experienced drivers onside.
They don't do the job properly. We are there to make them look good and help progress their career up the ladder. Refusing to take a van out as it needs tyres replacing is seen as sabotage and not being a team player. We should just salute and obey as far as they are concerned.
All gone quiet 🤐, I think the plan is ill thought out? They actually don't know what to do for the best lol 4 day working will be magic for most people but why would anybody want to be a manager or team leader when you could work 4 days?
Any update regards the change of shifts and hours at any stores. Heard one in Glasgow is doing the new shift pattern 8 week rolling rota. 7-7 shift 12-10 shift 1900-2200 shift. 90 min lunch break. Why do it in some stores surely it's a matter of time for all stores.
wondering that myself, i hope they bring it in.
1900 to 2200 shifts? I think that seems pointless as many stores have difficulty filling the four hour evening shifts, so three hour shifts will be a lot harder to fill.
Though it gives the question to people who don't like evenings and weekends - which would you rather do ???
So since the start of covid we have been starting at 4am every day, then a few months ago we went to monday-thursday normal hours but fri is 5-1 sat 4-11 and sunday 4-12 and its just been announced that we will be going back to normal hours everyday. At the weekend its a nightmake from 10am onwards with 50+ pickers on shop floor and customers you just cant move. Is there anyway to refuse going back to nomal hours since we have been doing it for over a year
Ring the union and get some advice.
Another trial ongoing.
12 hour days with 11 hours driving. instead of 10 hours shift and 9 hour driving and a different driver on the remaining 4 hours shift.
Unless all stores are different but I assume most run 4, 5 ,4 with maining the 4,5 being one shift
Well after posting above i just reread the whole thread.
Looks like it was trialled before exactly the same and from the dates I suspect covid put a complete stop to it.
Trials in Tesco seem to become the norm and vans going out with bigger loads for longer reduces travel time from store to first drop and from last drop to store.
Looks like 11 hours of driving with a 1 hour break so just on the legal side.
I don't have a huge problem doing the hours but those with kids will have no home life and whos going to pick up overtime when its a mega long day?
Bigger loads?
"We're gonna need a bigger van!"
???
More seriously, if they want to get more use out of the vans they need to work out a way of not having them stand idle for an hour while the driver has their lunch break. Which means drivers swapping vans between morning and afternoon with their afternoon van loaded by someone else.
It's probably due to them struggling to fill the shifts that not many drivers like - evenings and weekends.
The drivers who have these shifts are the ones who usually end up leaving. The drivers who work 3 or 4 days during the week without doing the evening shifts take up so much space, which leaves little wiggle room.
Plus you have other stores who do a rotating rota and have little issues with hiring drivers in. It's only a matter of time before Tesco follow suit, if the drivers don't like it then they'll know where the door is.
Quote from: madness on 25-02-24, 09:20PMAnother trial ongoing.
12 hour days with 11 hours driving. instead of 10 hours shift and 9 hour driving and a different driver on the remaining 4 hours shift.
Unless all stores are different but I assume most run 4, 5 ,4 with maining the 4,5 being one shift
Which area of the country is this?
I am not seeing how this helps with recruiting drivers to cover evening shifts. Shitty shifts on a dark, wet, cold winter evening are still shitty shifts no matter how you slice the pie.
In England, if your employer wants to modify a term in your contract, it's referred to as a "variation of contract." They can only make changes under specific circumstances:
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Your employer should inform you in advance if they intend to use a variation clause. However, they cannot rely on it if the change is unreasonable or introduced without notice. For instance, if the change would significantly impact your caring responsibilities, it might be considered unreasonable1.
Remember, putting things in writing when discussing changes with your employer is advisable. If you're unhappy with a change and don't want to accept it, follow the appropriate steps to express your disagreement1.
Additionally, the Trade Union Congress (TUC) emphasizes that employers must provide written notification of contract changes within four weeks. An unauthorized, one-sided variation could breach your employment contract, even if you've been notified of the change2.
Ultimately, your rights depend on the specific circumstances, your contract, and applicable laws. If you have concerns, consider seeking advice from an employment adviser12.
Quote from: gomezz on 27-02-24, 10:44AMI am not seeing how this helps with recruiting drivers to cover evening shifts. Shitty shifts on a dark, wet, cold winter evening are still shitty shifts no matter how you slice the pie.
Perhaps if they had more drivers, they could all do one evening shift per week or something, rather than just a few doing all of them?
tesco is changing things but the work force is not being consulted, its happening every day,and now timeing people in how long it takes them to do a tasks, where will it end.?
Tesco will always prioritise the needs of the business over the needs of the drivers, so if they want to implement this in every dotcom then they will do it.
My store one morning afternoon 4-5 drivers over evening the same the next day shift leaders are out driving because they're short the drivers would have a heart attack in my store if this was pushed
Quote from: fatboy on 29-06-19, 07:17AMGB domestic driving laws say you can only be on duty for 11 hours in a 24 hour period so 12 hour shifts cant be done.
breaks are not included in this so it can be done our store does driving 9am till 10pm 4 days a week we are only store that does it I belive
How many drivers like the 9am to 10pm shifts, and do they struggle with keeping drivers there?
Well in our store, most of the drivers have refused the trial hours and are all working on shop floor. This means zero overtime for anyone else in store as the shop will be mega overhoured.
they are trying to move drivers temp to other stores in the area but the sheer number means the shops is crazy over for filling etc.
Where I used to work there are quite a few drivers opposed to shop floor work so that would be interesting. But you have to evolve with the times, and if you want weekday daytime hours only then you're in the wrong profession.
now the fun and games begin, tesco has brought this trouble on them self, i did say at the start before they said what the pay rise would be that they would drop the )b) shell on us and i still belive there is more to come when people start to opt-out of sunday working and they will start to cut over time,or ban it, after they dont what to spend any of that £17 m .
Soon all the main benefits - Sunday premium, bank holiday premium, location pay and market supplements - will be a thing of the past. If they could they wouldn't have a driver skill rate either like another major retailer.
Quote from: sonic8610 on 11-03-24, 01:02AMWhere I used to work there are quite a few drivers opposed to shop floor work so that would be interesting. But you have to evolve with the times, and if you want weekday daytime hours only then you're in the wrong profession.
I think the majority of ours would have a heart attack if they had to go anywhere near the shop floor
if our evening ones finish their run early they normally all meet in the vans at the takeaway round the corner and spend the tips they got on food,it's that close to the store that the tracker thinks they are in the yard,they then all come down the road together and park the vans up 10 mins before it's time to go home
Quote from: JJH on 13-03-24, 06:31PMQuote from: sonic8610 on 11-03-24, 01:02AMWhere I used to work there are quite a few drivers opposed to shop floor work so that would be interesting. But you have to evolve with the times, and if you want weekday daytime hours only then you're in the wrong profession.
I think the majority of ours would have a heart attack if they had to go anywhere near the shop floor
Different people different strokes. Had many shop floor workers try dot com driving but couldn't hack it and went back to in store work. I think the main problem being that they didn't like their own company and missed gossiping all shift with their mates in the store.
Kaled78 I thought they weren't allowed to accept tips, has that policy changed now?
No the policy hasn't changed but what they don't know won't harm them. I keep my tips as some old dears are more offended if you DONT take it. All the drivers in our store accept tips but just don't go telling anyone except each other. Don't get much though except at Christmas when you might get a few hundred some years.
:thumbup:
John Lewis Partnership returns to profit but pays no bonus to staff, another company that has kicked its staff in the guts.
So how long before Tesco do decide on going ahead with implementing the new rota at every dotcom? Are they waiting to make changes to area postcodes first?
https://www.reddit.com/r/tesco/comments/136f4hc/tesco_ireland_changing_hours_for_the_worse_for/?rdt=61618&onetap_auto=true (https://www.reddit.com/r/tesco/comments/136f4hc/tesco_ireland_changing_hours_for_the_worse_for/?rdt=61618&onetap_auto=true) this might be 11 months old but i think they are trying to do the same in the uk.
100% agree. Anything to save money.
Quote from: Doggiedoodle on 13-03-24, 09:33PMKaled78 I thought they weren't allowed to accept tips, has that policy changed now?
policy has not changed,but our .com manager does not seem to care,most of them make about £50 a week in tips,one driver got nearly £200 last xmas
:thumbup:
TESCO TROUBLE Supermarket chaos as now TESCO is hit with massive IT meltdown just hours after Sainsbury's suffers the same
A specific service has been impacted >:D should have gone to spec savers. >:D
I had problems paying for petrol yesterday at a local garage - all my cards were MasterCards - none accepted 😔
Bloody Russians using cyber to get at us.
Quote from: rupert7 on 14-03-24, 09:16AMJohn Lewis Partnership returns to profit but pays no bonus to staff, another company that has kicked its staff in the guts.
O/T but councils screwed John Lewis. 99% of their stores in the city centre. A more well off customer base do not want to take the bus into town or be taken the P out of for stupid parking charges, so they all shop at home online.
Quote from: sonic8610 on 14-03-24, 01:01PMSo how long before Tesco do decide on going ahead with implementing the new rota at every dotcom? Are they waiting to make changes to area postcodes first?
We are just 1 week into the trial.
Most drivers not liking it but with the threat of shop floor work if you dont do it they are sucking it up.
The ones with kids are relly suffering as 12 days mean they dont see them on those days.
Think it'll essentially force drivers out to other companies?
Quote from: oldfashionedplayer on 16-03-24, 06:22PMThink it'll essentially force drivers out to other companies?
definitely
Quote from: madness on 16-03-24, 06:20PMQuote from: sonic8610 on 14-03-24, 01:01PMSo how long before Tesco do decide on going ahead with implementing the new rota at every dotcom? Are they waiting to make changes to area postcodes first?
We are just 1 week into the trial.
Most drivers not liking it but with the threat of shop floor work if you dont do it they are sucking it up.
The ones with kids are relly suffering as 12 days mean they dont see them on those days.
I take it's a choice of 8-8 or 9-10 shifts?
And I assume they'll just roll this out even if the drivers hate it.
8-8 or 9-9 which is just an insane length to your day. the oldies cant handle it, the fatties and unfit cant handle it and the younger fitter ones all hate it. But nobody is saying anything about it.
I may have missed it but what about such shifts meaning you are legally only allowed to work one day then one or more days off before you can work again?
no that leaves 12 hours between shifts, which is legal.
That is true but you would still be working more than eleven hours in a rolling 24 hour period which is not legal.
Quote from: gomezz on 24-03-24, 09:42PMThat is true but you would still be working more than eleven hours in a rolling 24 hour period which is not legal.
Not sure that's correct, plenty of businesses run 12/12.
My apologies. I got my mental arithmetic wrong and was applying the current rule of thumb that if you work an evening then you can only work the morning or afternoon of the next day not both (based on existng shift times). Finishing at 9pm makes all the difference.
Quote from: gomezz on 24-03-24, 09:42PMThat is true but you would still be working more than eleven hours in a rolling 24 hour period which is not legal.
They are not counting lunch. so its 11 hours of pay in a 12 hour clocked in/out shift. Runs the whole thing very tight though.
And if someone breaks down towards the end of their shift in the middle of nowhere then that throws a spanner in the works.
cant drive the next day. if recovery is needed youre not driving just working a longer shift.
Oh well, I'm sure some announcement will be coming soon enough.
Does anyone have a copy of the shift patterns