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Unfair treatment

Started by Nomad, 25-05-22, 02:17PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Do/did you suffer 'unfair' treatment by management ?

No
38 (20.3%)
Yes
149 (79.7%)

Total Members Voted: 187

Meh19923

#75
Quote from: Redshoes on 03-12-22, 01:01PMNot using a phone whilst fuelling is a rule because you need to pay attention to what you are doing and a mobile is a distraction. A passenger in a car is allowed to use a mobile phone.
If called to give support at pfs a vape on the way is not appropriate. There is no such thing as a smoke/vape break.

Yea there's no such thing but there is such a thing as stressing your staff member out to the point they make a stupid mistake.

gomezz

I occasionally need to use my inhaler when parked up in my dot com van during a gap in deliveries.   To the passer by who doesn't look that closely it may look like I am vaping.  Will have to watch that.
"The progress of the kart is more important than its direction"

lucgeo

#77
@ Meh19923

Did you have a union rep at any of these meetings?

The fact that you had worked excessive hours, and it was being accepted by managers overriding the exceptions, should have been brought in as mitigation?
How can you be disciplined at prior disciplinary meetings, when they have broken the rules? 16 continuous days without a break with 60+ hours per week, and they blame you for allowing it?? No follow up support meetings as agreed?

They failed to follow the support guidelines, which should have voided the prior warning before the warning the senior retracted.

Were you getting the full breaks during your excessive shifts? Having a draw on your vape en route to the PFS could have been you taking a 5 min break, due to lack of breaks during your shift! Until you actually walked into the kiosk, you were not technically in a Tesco building  ??? is it written anywhere, either in the policies for people or on signs in the PFS specifically regarding vaping? If not then it's an assumption, not a binding rule! Vaping is not smoking, there is no naked flame at the end of the vape to ignite any fumes!

If you are a union member, I would suggest you ask them to appeal the sacking, due to the previous warnings not being complied with, and the overriding of the exceptions! It would be the area rep that came in to rep you.
If not, I'd suggest you contact ACAS for advice, either way, you're not losing anything and it will use up Tesco time at a busy trading period!

@ Redshoes, there IS such a thing as a smoke/vape break, it's what some choose to do on their breaks! Also how many colleagues slip out to the smoking area during their shift for a quick ciggie, and get away with it, as they're out there amongst some managers, so is overlooked!

Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

Redshoes

I have seen smoking breaks in previous stores. It can very quickly get out of hand. It builds great resentment from non-smoking colleagues.

chris9997

Not sure if this helps but working  60 hours a week is against the working hours directive isnt  it?

Nomad

Redshoes.

"There is no such thing as a smoke/vape break." then you need to tell MM, the biggest offenders.

"I have seen smoking breaks in previous stores." so you have knowledge of their existence and acceptance by MM.

8-) 

Nomad ( Forum Admin )
It's better to be up in arms than down on your knees.

lucgeo

@chris9997...Exactly! And if @Meh has written notes from any meetings mentioning the excessive hours he's worked, payslips proving to working illegally, and all with the store's knowledge, due to exceptions being processed by managers!
Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

Meh19923

Quote from: lucgeo on 04-12-22, 08:35AM@ Meh19923

Did you have a union rep at any of these meetings?

The fact that you had worked excessive hours, and it was being accepted by managers overriding the exceptions, should have been brought in as mitigation?
How can you be disciplined at prior disciplinary meetings, when they have broken the rules? 16 continuous days without a break with 60+ hours per week, and they blame you for allowing it?? No follow up support meetings as agreed?

They failed to follow the support guidelines, which should have voided the prior warning before the warning the senior retracted.

Were you getting the full breaks during your excessive shifts? Having a draw on your vape en route to the PFS could have been you taking a 5 min break, due to lack of breaks during your shift! Until you actually walked into the kiosk, you were not technically in a Tesco building  ??? is it written anywhere, either in the policies for people or on signs in the PFS specifically regarding vaping? If not then it's an assumption, not a binding rule! Vaping is not smoking, there is no naked flame at the end of the vape to ignite any fumes!

If you are a union member, I would suggest you ask them to appeal the sacking, due to the previous warnings not being complied with, and the overriding of the exceptions! It would be the area rep that came in to rep you.
If not, I'd suggest you contact ACAS for advice, either way, you're not losing anything and it will use up Tesco time at a busy trading period!

@ Redshoes, there IS such a thing as a smoke/vape break, it's what some choose to do on their breaks! Also how many colleagues slip out to the smoking area during their shift for a quick ciggie, and get away with it, as they're out there amongst some managers, so is overlooked!



There was no support given until i reached  a seinstated final where they admitted i had no support from any of my meetings, the vape was on pfs forecourt of actually just b4 i got to the forecourt 🤔 i deffo feel like i should appeal cuz they constantly had me working and always said its my fault, i remember just when i got a reinstated final my boss quickly tried to make me sign a opt out form for sundays and close my availability and i messaged her stating this support should have been given along time bk

Beentheredonethat

Please see the attached Smoke Free Workplace policy circa September 2018 attached.  Specifically mentions you can smok or vape while walking between buildings.You cannot view this attachment.

whatajoke2019

In terms of Working Time Directive, if you've signed the form to say you're happy to work more than 48 hours a week, then you should be on site no longer than 60 hours a week (including breaks).


Redshoes

Just trying to be clear.
Were you staying back beyond your finish time or were you being asked/pressured to do so?

Redshoes

Quote from: Nomad on 04-12-22, 01:04PMRedshoes.

"There is no such thing as a smoke/vape break." then you need to tell MM, the biggest offenders.

"I have seen smoking breaks in previous stores." so you have knowledge of their existence and acceptance by MM.

8-) 



Yes, I have seen managers and colleagues in other stores take smoke breaks. This does not mean it's acceptable practice and I did not say I did not try to stop it and had accepted it. It is bad practice and does nothing but build resentment.
I have also seen it where it's accepted that nobody takes less then a 15 min break and if you want to smoke it is part of your break and this works much better, as expected.

lucgeo

The best thing that ever happened to the smokers was the ban on smoking indoors!
Prior to this, breaks were easily monitored, a quick walk through the canteen by managers checking on who was there at what time and for how long was the norm, and the loiters quickly brought to task!

Now the restroom is empty most of the time, those who are on a break will have a quick drink and something to eat, before going out for a smoke. Some will just take their entire break outside, so the monitoring of times is no longer feasible.

Our SM was a non smoker and would often threaten to do away with the smoking benches. The PM was a smoker and forcefully challenged every time! The SM even instructed managers to go out to monitor who was out there and for how long!

Fast forward a couple years, a smoker and close family member to the SM, arrived having miraculously gained a full time colleague position  ??? Every red call out they went! Every half hour or so, out they went!
Yep the monitoring of the smoking area was no more  :-X
Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

Nomad

Quote from: Redshoes on 05-12-22, 08:07AMI did not say I did not try to stop it and had accepted it.

You also did not say 'However smoke breaks are widely practiced, and accepted by some management.'

Some may say in some stores it has become custom and practice.

Redshoes, always best to tell the full picture.
Nomad ( Forum Admin )
It's better to be up in arms than down on your knees.

Meh19923

Quote from: Redshoes on 05-12-22, 07:57AMJust trying to be clear.
Were you staying back beyond your finish time or were you being asked/pressured to do so?


I was continually asked and pressured in their way " ow plz stay or we'll be screwed" or " cmon u can do us a solid" " you owe us for looking out for you" BS

gomezz

It may be too late for you but for others the trick is to learn to say No.   Even if you can or may even want to do the extra say No to start with.  Then let them persuade you but only if there is a quid pro quo of at the very least that they know you are doing them a huge favour.

What you do not want to happen is that you become known as a soft touch for doing extra.
"The progress of the kart is more important than its direction"

Meh19923

#91
Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).  .Admin.

100% agree they really used and abused me during my time there, they made me do their s*** and then turn around saying I took the responsibility on my own back, which is bull why would I give myself extra jobs for a minimum wage job, also its been a week and yet they haven't sent my dismissal letter like wtf how do I appeal when I have only 2 weeks and 1 week was waiting for the letter saying how I do it, but my store was dodgy as f***, they broke their own policies using me  by withholding stock found by stock control to throw to charity to save prs, damaging ooc to save prs, fudging availability to make the store look better and at time selling ooc thinking customers wouldn't know the codes on veg, also making me work all of my department (veg) alone (superstore) and tip wagons and run to pfs and put barriers outside in a span of 7.5 hrs then say that's normal for multiskilled people like f*** off who else in that store did that,  nobody that's who'

Redshoes

Quote from: Nomad on 05-12-22, 10:33AM
Quote from: Redshoes on 05-12-22, 08:07AMI did not say I did not try to stop it and had accepted it.

You also did not say 'However smoke breaks are widely practiced, and accepted by some management.'

Some may say in some stores it has become custom and practice.

Redshoes, always best to tell the full picture.

I said I have seen it in other stores, not the same as widely practiced.
I have also seen it come up in a forum as number one irritant to colleagues, even those who also smoke.

NightAndDay

#93
Smoke breaks are endemic in every store I've worked in, I've never had a problem with it as they wouldn't have normal breaks instead, interestingly enough, there are far fewer smokers in the office, none of the team I work with smoke (at least as far as I'm aware, most are hybrid workers).

The whole smoke breaks vs non-smoke breaks thing isn't a problem as long as it's managed correctly in terms of fairness, and that is a very easy thing to do, only one manager I worked with was inept enough to have caused a divide over it, they didn't last long suffice it to say.

Saying that there were a few kiddywinks that have been caught having unauthorised smoke breaks, but these types never last more than a few months or a year at most.

Nomad

#94
@Redshoes you have either completely missed my point or deliberately avoided it, that being that in your  earlier comment on 'smoke breaks' you failed to give the full picture.

End of conversation.
Nomad ( Forum Admin )
It's better to be up in arms than down on your knees.

Redshoes

The whole smoke break thing was not the main question. It came about as someone being in trouble for a vape at pfs.
Checkouts have a break list, they have to go when sent. PFS and CSD are mostly single manned now so breaks for them are also restricted. Most smoking areas require colleagues to walk out the store in front of front end colleagues. They see colleagues going on numerous smoking breaks but then also see them in canteen later. Smokers in front end ares can't ask for numerous breaks, they have to take a break of a minimum of 15 mins.
Shop floor colleagues see fellow workers disappearing. They are not gone for long but disappear randomly. They complain, the point is that nobody likes it other than the smokers who do it. It should not happen. I have seen in other stores but at most it tends to be one or two people as as such it is not at a level to be classed as epidemic.
When it happens Colleague is spoken to, problem goes away but slips back and process starts again. Problem can go away for a very long time and when it comes back it is for a very short period of time. As such it's something I'm aware of but it's not a big problem.
It's 5+ years since I have worked with a manager that smoked. In one single store I worked in there was one single manager that took smoke breaks but when colleagues complained to store manager they were stopped from doing so, problem resolved. 

lucgeo

#96
It's six of one...the non smokers time the smokers, but they're not being productive whilst stood there timing them are they? CSD colleagues stand yapping at quiet times, or go wandering off for numerous toilet breaks! Other shop floor colleagues will go and "get ready" to finish a good time before end of shift! Colleagues note these things too, and this is where it gets silly!

I personally had occasions to talk non smokers out of reporting smokers going for a crafty puff!! It's counter productive, it causes bad feeling and a lot of negativity. You end up getting colleagues reporting each for petty things to get their own back, and whereas the managers may be loving it at first, once it gets busy, their whole time ( and the rep's ) is taken up on petty squabbles, meetings and reprimands! If they don't, then they're accused of favouritism or singling out individuals for cautions!

Best to live and let live... if they get caught that's their lookout, same for those colleagues idly yapping and those disappearing off the shop floor 20minutes before their shift ends!

Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

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