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Double Time on Sunday... uh oh

Started by sufRu, 14-01-16, 08:51PM

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anonconcerned

Dont forget some of us dont get double time now anyway :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Loki

Quote from: smithwally on 11-03-16, 05:46PM
Can these non-members challenge the PA or use the store forums?

Yes
When all else fails, madness is the emergency exit.

smithwally

Ok, so is it actually possible to reinstate the Sunday double pay if we raise the issues with the store forums?

Is it possible to use the employment tribunals against the PA for their lack of consultation with staff over changes to T&C's and the PA's failure to obtain affected staff agreement prior to reaching a deal with Tesco?

instorebakery

Smithwally - not only using employment tribunals but grievances as well against the company for their lack of consultation with their employees. They are acting on an agreement that was not relayed to any of it's staff at any time.

Has anybody complained to USDAW as well for not working in the interests of its members?

Loki

smithwally. Read previous posts BUT above all, if you yourself need 100% confirmation, then seek advice from a solicitor.

Miss Piggy. In answer to your question - what do you think?  >:(
When all else fails, madness is the emergency exit.

smithwally

I have just been informed that it is possible to take a trade union to an employment tribunal......

However the employee obviously needs to raise a grievance against the union first before launching an ET claim.

So does anyone know the process to raise a grievance against Usdaw?

And more importantly can non-members raise grievances against the union?

bugsbunny

Does anyone know how to find out the names and email addresses of the area and regional PM?  How can we be sure our concerns are heard at The National Forum, even though our PM said he would voice our concerns I don't trust he will. In the same way he told us we were the only store in the country complaining  about losing pay.

Loki

Quote from: smithwally on 12-03-16, 02:06PM
I have just been informed that it is possible to take a trade union to an employment tribunal......

However the employee obviously needs to raise a grievance against the union first before launching an ET claim.

So does anyone know the process to raise a grievance against Usdaw?

And more importantly can non-members raise grievances against the union?

Yes, but it's not via the company procedures.

You can submit a complaint to the Certification Officer.

For further details:

https://www.gov.uk/complain-trade-union/overview

This is a separate matter to seeking the derecognition of a Trade Union.
When all else fails, madness is the emergency exit.

mexicopete

Loki have you any views on the likely outcome if a great many of the Tesco Usdaw membership made a complaint to the Certification Officer? would it be a good warning shot across the unions bows?
The worlds me lobster

valleyboy

I don't think it's within the remit of the cerification officer to question the decision of an agreed bargaining unit. The people empowered to negotiate on behalf of retail staff are indeed retail staff?

The national officer is only a voice for the committee and to offer advice. A complaint may have substance if it can be proved Pauline gave incorrect information to the committee and the committee acted in good faith on such advice.

The committee however should however be equally balanced ie old contracts and new.

Can maybe loki with his retail experience confirm the balance of the pay committee?

Loki

I agree with you valleyboy (this is the 3rd time ;D) regarding submitting a complaint to the Certification Officer with reference to the pay deal simply because of the system in place. Obviously others may disagree.

I was merely pointing out the option should a complaint needed to be submitted alternative to the Usdaw internal complaints procedures.

Sorry, but I don't quite know what you mean by balance. Could you please rephrase the question?
When all else fails, madness is the emergency exit.

valleyboy

The committee that make up the bargaining unit, say for example

National officer

10 elected retail staff

Of the 10 elected retail staff were 5 on contracts that paid double time for Sunday working and 5 on newer contracts with less than double time for working a Sunday.... equally balanced

mexicopete

Quote from: Loki on 12-03-16, 06:53PM
I agree with you valleyboy (this is the 3rd time ;D) regarding submitting a complaint to the Certification Officer with reference to the pay deal simply because of the system in place. Obviously others may disagree.

I was merely pointing out the option should a complaint needed to be submitted alternative to the Usdaw internal complaints procedures.

Sorry, but I don't quite know what you mean by balance. Could you please rephrase the question?

Loki it wasn't just the pay deal I was thinking of making a complaint about to be honest it is everything about the way Usdaw is conducting itself on our supposed behalf, it's a gross dereliction of duty in my honest opinion.  >:( >:( >:( >:(
The worlds me lobster


Loki

Quote from: valleyboy on 12-03-16, 07:08PM
The committee that make up the bargaining unit, say for example

National officer

10 elected retail staff

Of the 10 elected retail staff were 5 on contracts that paid double time for Sunday working and 5 on newer contracts with less than double time for working a Sunday.... equally balanced

A National Officer is not part of the pay team.

There are 44 members on the National Forum all of which are Usdaw members.They are made up of different roles from different formats.

12 Usdaw Reps from the 44 are appointed to the Pay Team.

The National forum reps as a whole are balloted on the deal for and on behalf of all Usdaw members within ALL store formats including fulfilment centres.

Usdaw have issued 2 official statements regarding how many of the 44 National Forum reps will be affected by the changes as a result of the Pay Deal:

1. "Your elected representatives on the National Forum who are themselves impacted by these changes overwhelmingly accepted this deal because they believed that the improvements that would benefit everyone outweighed the changes to premiums."

and a separate statement made at a different time...

2. "The majority of the pay team and many of the National Forum reps are also affected by the changes to premiums and, therefore, this decision was not taken lightly. However, in light of the discussions and what is happening in the rest of the retail sector we came to the conclusion that the improvements for everyone outweighed the changes to the premiums."

Now dispite the differences between the 2 statements, not all the National Forum reps will be affected. Of those who will be affected, not all will be affected by the cessation of the same premiums. For example, some will be affected by the cessation of Sunday and/or BH double time, others by the cessation of overtime rates and so on and so forth.

However, as far as I am aware (and I do not disclose matters out of pure conjecture), only 6 of the pay team are to be affected by the cessation of Sunday double time. Now whether or not these 6 are the only ones affected by this out of the 44 National Forum reps, I cannot say for sure. However, what I do suspect is that the majority of the National Forum reps are not currently entitled to Sunday double time. What is for sure is that not ALL of the National Forum reps are affected by any of the changes to be made with, of course, the exception of the basic hourly rate.

As far as night workers are concerned, a minority form part of the National Foru as a whole let alone the pay team itself.

The entire matter is an absolute disgrace as far as I am concerned.
When all else fails, madness is the emergency exit.

optout


Loki

Where these statements made by Pauline Foulkes?

If so can a complaint be made about her misleading the USDAW membership?

If so is this complaint to be made to the Certificatlion Officer?

I AM NOT A REP, BUT......

the-vortex

Quote from: Loki on 12-03-16, 08:50PM
2. "The majority of the pay team and many of the National Forum reps are also affected by the changes to premiums and, therefore, this decision was not taken lightly. However, in light of the discussions and what is happening in the rest of the retail sector we came to the conclusion that the improvements for everyone outweighed the changes to the premiums."

Thanks @Loki, comprehensive reply as usual.

The key is that the National Forum is delegated and authorised under the PA to negotiate the 'Annual' Pay Deal on our behalf. We are not privy to those discussions and, unless you know otherwise, there will be no release of minutes etc. T*sco announced last year that pay costs will be kept flat (or will not rise) so to have negotiated a rise of above inflation for the majority of the workforce needs to be acknowledged. USDAW and T*sco do not negotiate in a vacuum, sales are flat, share price is calamitous and profits have been affected by the  fraud  - all ofthis will have impacted on the discussions.
Loyalty is a one-way street!

fatty

The National forum reps used to get minutes of meetings from USDAW and they were fairly comprehensive. Surely they could be shared with the exclusion of anything that may have a trade impact?
I owe my success to having listened respectfully to the very best advice, and then going away and doing the exact opposite.
G. K. Chesterton (1874 - 1936)

Loki

The minutes will indicate many adjournments over an extended period of time.

Irrespective of the initial protests and concerns raised, the minutes will clearly indicate resignation as a result of having been persuaded to accept the cessation of the premiums that many will be affected by.

The minutes will clearly record the acceptance of the proposals by the majority of the National Forum reps whilst indicating a subservient approach no matter how one wishes to dress it up.

Had the protests by the pay team, including that of the 44 National Forum reps, been made out of true conviction and a firm determination in arguing the case on behalf of all members affected, then such a stance would have undoubtedly led to the involvement of senior officials from both the company and the union as per the agreement.

Had this been the case, and the position unmoved and all negotiations exhausted with no resolution, then there would have been no choice other than to ballot members.

Alas! This was obviously not the case. Many will state that the Company had no choice other than to make such "drastic" decisions. Whether this be the case or not is irrelevant.

Why?

Because when such "drastic" changes are on the table with no more scope to improve, then regardless of the PA and the mechanics of the collective bargaining over pay, I firmly believe that the National Forum reps should have taken the decision to hold out until such time when members are to be balloted.

It's more to do with what is ethical and out of principle than what can or cannot be afforded by the company.

It's too big a change and too many members affected for 44 people to decide the outcome regardless of being compliant with legislation.

On that basis, to submit a complaint via the Certification Officer is futile. This is purely a matter of whether or not Usdaw acts, as a whole, in the best interests of its members. No doubt many will say they do. However, for those that feel aggrieved by their blatant lack of care and disinterest, then an application to the Central Arbitration Committee for derecognition would not only be understandable, but bloody warranted too!
When all else fails, madness is the emergency exit.

chris9997

so union have stated that despite ex team leaders being compensated already ( 2 year lump sum payout which is exempt from calculation) Tesco are going to re compensate again because the wages were more Jan to May part of 2015, not sure how Tesco got this past Tesco??

daftjoe

Just had text from one of my colleagues that enquired of our PM that they would like to see their full contract of employment.

They were told that their contract comprised of the single sheet that you get to sign with your hours, pay rate etc. on it AND the Staff Handbook!!!

Is this correct???

Expressdude2016

Hi daftjoe  yes the contract and handbook do make up the terms and conditions of employment ( does say that on the single sheet you sign.

daftjoe

Thanks for that expressdude. Seems a bit strange that a flimsy book like the handbook is so important!
Especially as I don't know anyone in my store that had to sign for their copy.....

Does this mean that a new staff handbook will be required before the premium cuts are in place? Surely if it's not then it would be illegal to introduce them?

Loki

Not necessarily.

You've been informed.

You've received the new rates in writing via the booklet.

Don't forget that in previous pay deals, a new handbook wouldn't be released until quite some time after.

Having said that, I'll expect a new handbook to be released prior to 3rd July including words to the effect of "as of 3rd July 2016 etc etc...". Then again I expect too much from this Company.
When all else fails, madness is the emergency exit.

Expressdude2016

DaftJoe you find most up to date one on payslipview. Last one was Septemeber 2015. They used to give everyone new copy but that seems to have stopped in recent years.

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