Double Time on Sunday... uh oh

[Duracell]

Loki, there are more similarities in our circumstance than you realise.

It's only a matter of time before the lies misinformation get exposed, given enough rope.

I understand your reluctance to disclose, it is a difficult position we find ourselves in.

I will say this though, not to cause argument, the game is a foot my freind. Oh yes indeed.

I will indeed share your respect to try and abstain from us disagreeing.
Our plights will be of benefit to each other in the future I gaurentee it.

[Loki]

Much appreciated old friend.Takes me back to the days of Magyar

[Duracell]

optout

One last thing, and I do sincerely apologise for my ranting, the PA itself does not provide every detail . There are so many documents that need to be collated and furthermore, as a result of this certain processes and procedures that have been challenged both at Company and Union level.

Yes, by all means, seek assistance from a solicitor. Don't take them to your PM. In your first appt take your contract and copy the forum section etc from OURTesco. That will suffice in the first instance. If they require further information before making a decision to take your case, then worry about that later and there will be a way of getting more info from the OurTesco or here. If they take your case on, then they will obtain everything they need themselves. But for now, everything you need at this time is there for your initial appt.

But, do not be surprised by the outcome. In the meantime good luck.

I do agree with Loki here, the cross reference of sources of material to try and show an overall Comprehensive view of The PA is mind blowing, in all probability there is no rep at any level that has viewed all such material, how long is a piece of string.

[optout]

Loki

I am undecided as yet, however, I am open-minded about the possible result until either myself or somebody else takes this to a solicitor..

My personal favourite line of attack would be derecognition of the union a la Beverly's post.

I am at present trying to find someway that I can participate in any venture re the changes (both night premium and double time), however, I am not detrimentally (on a financial basis) effected by either.

I do understand, your ranting and I think you more than most are entitled to it, Hell I've done nothing but rant myself since I found out and as I have said it doesn't even affect me financially or (by dint of your Rep duties) professionally. So rant away.

Is it true that USDAW offer a free legal service (probably first visit only) to it's members and would/could this be covered?


Duracell

[valleyboy]

@ optout

Yes you can have a free consultation with a solicitor through the union. Though most if not every solicitor will offer a free consultation.

If you have any insurances ie car, household, credit card whereby you have legal expense cover, check the wording as some cover disputes with an employer.

Or you can seek advice from acas or cab.

Your contact is your contract but be mindful of implied terms aswell as express terms, which you signed and have agreed with, you have agreed certain aspects if not most to be negotiated on your behalf by a recognised trade union and a process that allows unilateral change to terms and conditions.

Pay and benefits is one! If this collective bargaining agreement was to be of an objection you as others should have objected when the agreed process on pay negotiated your first pay rise! Without objecting and through implied and express consent you have agreed how your pay can be negotiated.

I think from a store perspective and as loki is the guru on store processes he may agree with me for a 2nd time, the process on pay negotiations needs to be changed

[Loki]

A resounding yes to that valleyboy. 2nd time it is.

However, there is only one way in which to obtain this which in itself relies upon much organisation.

[Loki]

Ever since this hatchet man as come, Usdaw have undoubtedly been ousted as the weak union we always knew them to be.

For me, their conduct throughout the restructure was the beginning of their demise.

They provided misinformation throughout the restructure.

They lied about certain aspects of the process regarding the pension.

They have reneged on key principles from previous pay deals regarding certain elements of this pay deal. By using the bargaining tool to legitimise the cessation of these principles has finally confirmed that there is cause to seek action via the CAC.

[Loki]

One more thing I will say is that as much as I would like to say more but cannot, people on here, including Duracell have already made important points regarding not so much the inconsistency of Usdaw, but the blatant abuse of employment law via loopholes in which to EVADE representing its members. Not necessarily with reference to this pay deal alone but to many matters regarding Terms and Conditions. A far cry from how seemingly committed they are to cases involving accidents at work of which different legal personnel deal with.

[AlexM]

With sunday premiums, if you are contracted to work on sunday & take a holiday then do you still get the prrmium payment for that week? & where does it show on the payslip?

[antico]

Yes. Its included in HOL PAY.

[chris9997]

just a question the new pay structure starting in july if you are affected you will get a lump sum based on last year jan to dec pay versus new rates does that mean for ex team leaders are going to be compensated again jan to june ??

[nightsboy]

chris997 u mean because we were on team leader money from jan-may 15??yes I have spoken to the union and we will be compensated

[chris9997]

but were ex team leaders already compensated for 2 year loss of pay???

[nightsboy]

yes from may15-may17, this happens to fall before then, when as a FACT team leaders were on team leader rate

[Duracell]

One more thing I will say is that as much as I would like to say more but cannot, people on here, including Duracell have already made important points regarding not so much the inconsistency of Usdaw, but the blatant abuse of employment law via loopholes in which to EVADE representing its members. Not necessarily with reference to this pay deal alone but to many matters regarding Terms and Conditions. A far cry from how seemingly committed they are to cases involving accidents at work of which different legal personnel deal with.

A different world almost, like chalk and cheese.
From my experience, they are willing to learn as they go and are Willing to adapt to the claimants perspective.

I will be honest Even having experience of both approaches I have never compared them.

The one side quite ruthless and unforgiving yet the other like a timid pet ( as I look at my dog contented to sleep at my feet that could cause me some serious problems if it had a mind to).

From my experience they out source the legal side of the later, perhaps it just boils down to , the inept and the competent.

[Duracell]

*Correction* out source the former

[Loki]

The one side quite ruthless and unforgiving yet the other like a timid pet ( as I look at my dog contented to sleep at my feet that could cause me some serious problems if it had a mind to).

An apt analogy.

[bugsbunny]

I am with you on this Smithwally, I am going to lose £130 every four weeks surely there must be a way we can all contribute to get an employment solicitor look at this. Like you I feel why should I do the same hours, same job for less pay hardly makes for a happy store. The thing is my manager agrees with me

[valleyboy]

There's been a lot of debate here regarding contract law and plenty of views shared. Very healthy to share views and a credit to vlh for setting up a platform to facilitate such views.

@ bugsbunny read the posts, you have the information on how to obtain free legal advice.

The committee that has bargaining powers for stores can someone say how these people were elected, and were these people equally balanced in terms of personal contracts?

[bugsbunny]

Thanks valleyboy Ihave   put in a grievance to Pm got no where I was told it can be done under PA, contacted ACAS they say it can be done under PA. CAB said the same. And when I asked to see a solicitor as a member of USDAW they said I could not see one as USDAW had agreed it. I can not afford to pay to see  a solicitor myself. so do not know where to go now without it costing me a fortune. I would be willing to donate into a fund if other people wanted to do this.

[valleyboy]

@ bugsbunny, I do understand your frustration and am with you on how frustrated you are. Employment law is complex and very different to contract law.

I understand you are seeking answers and you have tried different organisations for answers an you have been given the same answer by both.

Have you checked your insurances for legal expenses... car, household, credit card etc as some cover disputes with employer.

[Loki]

Thanks valleyboy Ihave   put in a grievance to Pm got no where I was told it can be done under PA, contacted ACAS they say it can be done under PA. CAB said the same. And when I asked to see a solicitor as a member of USDAW they said I could not see one as USDAW had agreed it. I can not afford to pay to see  a solicitor myself. so do not know where to go now without it costing me a fortune. I would be willing to donate into a fund if other people wanted to do this.

Which is what I have tried to convey, much to my disgust.

However, what I will say is that if others are able, continue to seek advice from a solicitor via their free consultation with aforementioned documents.

In the meantime:

I'm afraid it is the PA that must be tackled and the only way in which to do this is via the forum process. I can expand on this if need be, but am short of time at this particular moment.

[instorebakery]

What's the PA?

[smithwally]

Sorry it's my fault, I started using PA as short hand for the partnership agreement between Tesco and USDAW.

And others followed suit.....

I was being lazy with my fingers on the keyboard......

And that reminds me. A significant number of Tesco staff are NOT USDAW members.

Can these non-members challenge the PA or use the store forums?

[instorebakery]

Yes got it now thanks.