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Very Little Helps => Stores => Topic started by: Expressdude2016 on 28-12-16, 10:02AM

Title: selling alcohol
Post by: Expressdude2016 on 28-12-16, 10:02AM
 Report in newspaper today that cashier refused to sell alcohol. Now I am not being racist etc but if a person is employed as  cashier then then they should have to sell alcohol no matter there beliefs. Whats others views on this.?   


  https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2486827/shopper-slams-tesco-after-muslim-woman-on-checkout-refused-to-serve-him-alcohol/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2486827/shopper-slams-tesco-after-muslim-woman-on-checkout-refused-to-serve-him-alcohol/) 
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: blutopia on 28-12-16, 10:28AM
I'm all for religious tolerance but I am struggling with this one.  It is not as if the member of staff was being asked to consume the alcohol.  Would they refuse to serve a customer who was buying pork or, indeed, any products containing meat that they were unsure was Halal?  Perhaps any Muslim colleagues reading this could explain.

I had a good laugh at the linked article at the bottom of the page though!
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2460637/tesco-santas-grotto-leytonstone-london-depressing/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2460637/tesco-santas-grotto-leytonstone-london-depressing/)
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Nomad on 28-12-16, 11:23AM
Tesco sell alcohol, customers buy alcohol, Tesco employs people who wont sell it to customers.

Makes perfect sense, NOT.  8-)
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: horatiocain on 28-12-16, 12:58PM
This isn't the first time this has happened and Muslims scholars across the country always say the same thing, there is no religious grounds to refuse to sell someone alcohol.
It was morrisons last time and it's happened in sainsbury too, there is kobi religious doctrine prohibiting selling alcohol so theiron manager should begin disciplinary action.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: cityboy on 28-12-16, 01:40PM
This is absolute rubbish! If you can't do your job on whatever grounds, then you should have been offered a different job or no job at all. If my beliefs, say, as a vegetarian, secluded me from working in a butchers shop, then why apply for the job in the first place?. This position on checkouts is clearly unsuitable, so why has she got this job?
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: specialgravy on 28-12-16, 02:00PM
the sun is hardly known for its truthful and honest reporting is it? in fact i would be happy to stick my neck out here and say that its probably a load of old flannell. was there maybe another reason? like the guy was drunk or abusive? that wouldnt suit the suns barely masked anti muslim/right wing hate stance would it?
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: fargone on 28-12-16, 03:27PM
If she was that devout, then she wouldn't be working for the Kafir in the first place.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Nomad on 28-12-16, 03:29PM
@specialgravy, from the article
QuoteDavid Upstone, a Tesco customer service executive to the board, said: "Our colleague in question requested upon starting not to serve alcohol on religious grounds.

"As an inclusive retailer we do all we can to meet each person's needs.

"Our colleague works on the kiosk as alcohol is generally not purchased in this area.

"She is aware that you shouldn't have to queue again in the future if a similar situation occurs.

"She will request another colleague to come and serve."

Which appears to be a quote of the words spoken by the Tesco customer service executive, I would therefore hazard a guess it would not be wise to stick your neck out to far
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: sommiewoman on 28-12-16, 03:36PM
This reminds a little bit of the Yaya Toure story. It goes like this. Match of the Day always used to award the man-of-the-match a nice big bottle of champagne. One day, that MOTM happened to be Yaya Toure. He refused the champagne on grounds of his 'religious beliefs', so MOTD, in its great wisdom, scrapped the champagne - for everyone - and replaced it with some crappy, non-descript trophy. Therefore, the so-called religious belief of a single individual ended a long established tradition.

Fast forward a few years, and the very same Yaya Toure is caught drink driving and receives a lengthy driving ban and a hefty fine. He went on to say his soft drink had brandy in it. Right. Presumably it had been put there - by Yaya Toure.

Not exactly the same situation, but you get my drift.

Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: cityboy on 28-12-16, 04:00PM
This is another annoyance. Get hired, and only then reveal the tasks you can't perform and the days you have to take off for your beliefs. I have seen the same members of staff do this year after year while the rest of us have to carry the store through Christmas and Easter,etc. But I suppose I'd be considered a bigot if I mentioned this, therefore I don't.     P.S., does this make me a closet racist?, because I hate those guys (racists I mean.).
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: mexicopete on 28-12-16, 04:44PM
Quote from: fargone on 28-12-16, 03:27PM
If she was that devout, then she wouldn't be working for the Kafir in the first place.

;) :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: mexicopete on 28-12-16, 04:50PM
Quote from: cityboy on 28-12-16, 04:00PM
This is another annoyance. Get hired, and only then reveal the tasks you can't perform and the days you have to take off for your beliefs. I have seen the same members of staff do this year after year while the rest of us have to carry the store through Christmas and Easter,etc. But I suppose I'd be considered a bigot if I mentioned this, therefore I don't.     P.S., does this make me a closet racist?, because I hate those guys (racists I mean.).

This newspaper article shows just why Tesco and our country are completely cattle trucked. :( :( :(
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: fargone on 28-12-16, 04:59PM
I would have taken my £55.00p somewhere else.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: cityboy on 28-12-16, 05:03PM
mexicopete, pardon my ignorance,but what do you mean?
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: forrestgimp on 28-12-16, 05:20PM
Quote from: Expressdude2016 on 28-12-16, 10:02AM
Report in newspaper today that cashier refused to sell alcohol. Now I am not being racist etc but if a person is employed as  cashier then then they should have to sell alcohol no matter there beliefs. Whats others views on this.?   


  https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2486827/shopper-slams-tesco-after-muslim-woman-on-checkout-refused-to-serve-him-alcohol/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2486827/shopper-slams-tesco-after-muslim-woman-on-checkout-refused-to-serve-him-alcohol/)

It doesnt work like that, read the handbook if you have religious reasons for not selling something like pig meat cow meat or alcohol then tesco as an equal opportunity employer try to allow you not to be faced with the situation.

Also if you read this person is employed on the CS desk for this reason where alcohol is very rarely bought she also simply asked the guy to go to another till I get the feeling he may have made a huge deal out of it because a line manager opened a till and sold him it. Now we all refuse cigarette and alcohol sales on a daily basis for age related reasons and yet you are having a sanctimonious rant about this poor girl.

I get the feeling its more about her being a muslim than the refused alcohol sale.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: mexicopete on 28-12-16, 05:31PM
@forrestgimp this poor girl is pulling her employers chain. There are all sorts of different ways of doing the this, the most common of which in my store is alledged child care issues which are used to ensure people get out of all sorts of duties, where other more dedicated members of staff are just expected to pick up the pieces of the carnage left by these lazy/conniving parasites. I am prepared to wager a fair amount that said cashier knew exactly what she was doing and the outcry it would inevitably cause. :-X :-X
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Morris999 on 28-12-16, 07:26PM
The colleagues on my stores CSD sell lots of alcohol, so to say the csd colleagues hardly sell alcohol is not true.
Also I remember when the government started putting those vile pictures on the packets of tobacco products, the CSD colleagues complained that they were being made to look at the pictures when touching the products, and it wasn't right as they didn't smoke!
This was sent to HO and their response was either sell it or leave!

Now I work with a lot of Muslims in my store and they have all said the same!
There is nothing in their religion that states they cannot sell alcohol!
They are embarrassed as a result of this woman taking the p**s out of Tesco in the name of their religion!
This woman should have been told the same as the CSD colleagues in the store!
Sell it or leave!
It's PC madness!
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: mexicopete on 28-12-16, 07:58PM
@Morris999 Thank you I rest my case for the prosecution Melud. ;) ;) :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: sommiewoman on 28-12-16, 10:33PM
The nub of this story is about an individual employee impressing her beliefs on her employer, and indeed, wider society. A person's religion should be a private matter, and therefore should be kept out of a place of employment.

Nobody is suggesting people should not be able to have religious beliefs, misguided as I personally think they are, but you cannot expect everyone else who does not share those beliefs to compromise their behaviour to accommodate, or appease you.

Where does this end? With individual employees writing up a list of pre-conditions to their employers, rather than the other way round? To cherry pick what duties they will consider? And then human rights legislation compelling employers to be ever more accommodating, to the point where businesses are actually damaged?



Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: specialgravy on 29-12-16, 01:04AM
well, it seems the guy who complained is a big fan of the massive racists at britain first and it also seems the GA was under 18....look at the drivel he put on his FB page http://irbf.org.uk/bf-supporter-sells-story-to-the-sun/ (http://irbf.org.uk/bf-supporter-sells-story-to-the-sun/)
i am surprised at how it is automaticaly assumed the GA was at fault, the sun is a hateful pack of lies.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: specialgravy on 29-12-16, 01:13AM
honestly shocked at some of the comments. everyone has a right to believe what they want. tosco is an inclusive employer and respects its employees rights to religious freedom, just like any decent employer, person or country should. if you dont like religion then thats great also-i dislike any kind of religion but thats just me and i have my reasons, doesnt stop me being civil and decent to those who like to follow, just like they are civil and decent to me. cut out the hate, its not cool.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: AlexM on 29-12-16, 01:52AM
Well said, specialgravy.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Equalizer87 on 29-12-16, 04:47AM
I would have taken my money elsewhere. In all my years  of buying alcohol I have never met a Muslim who has refused to serve me it. And having spoke with many staff members of the same faith, they all agree that selling the alcohol is not a problem. So if the story is true, what defence would the GA have???
I wonder, would they gave refused to sell Jelly Babies and Fruit Pastilles due to their gelatine content?? Or is it just an excuse because alcohol is widely known to be Haram for Muslims and the GA is playing on this??

I'm sorry, but if you accept employment with Tesco, or any other supermarket selling products that are in contravention of your beliefs, then the issue is with the GA. You know full well what you are getting into and should shoulder it, just as every other employee does.


I wonder what the responses would be  if a non Muslim staff member refused to sell Halal meat do to its inhumane killing method? ?? I bet that GA would be gone before they can blink.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: alf on 29-12-16, 06:25AM
Hmmm, a mentally stunted knuckle-dragger, sells a story to a tabloid, which is often read by mentally stunted knuckle-draggers.

Call me cynical, but I question the legitimacy of the article.

Though, I'm surprised, I didn't see any front page spreads about Christmas being banned, due to those scary muslims.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: cityboy on 29-12-16, 06:47AM
I have just re-read this article. One thing I didn't notice at first was the sentence which said "the customer assistant, who wore a headscarf", now I'm not a fool, I know the undertone of that remark, and reading the comments on the article it certainly riled up the haters. If I had done something "newsworthy" while working at Tesco, do you think they would write "the customer assistant, who wore socks"? My suspicion is that this non-story was published merely to add fuel to the intolerance and hatred that exists in this country. Well done The Sun, another load of rubbish that feeds the haters and the bigots!
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Sarah C on 29-12-16, 10:01AM
If I turn round and say that due to my religious beliefs, I must meditate and not speak to any customer during the holy month of December I can get away with it? :P
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Equalizer87 on 29-12-16, 10:07AM
@ Sarah C

Worth a shot I'd say  :thumbup:
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: GasMonkey on 29-12-16, 10:52AM
Quote from: blutopia on 28-12-16, 10:28AM
I'm all for religious tolerance but I am struggling with this one.  It is not as if the member of staff was being asked to consume the alcohol.  Would they refuse to serve a customer who was buying pork or, indeed, any products containing meat that they were unsure was Halal?  Perhaps any Muslim colleagues reading this could explain.

I had a good laugh at the linked article at the bottom of the page though!
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2460637/tesco-santas-grotto-leytonstone-london-depressing/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2460637/tesco-santas-grotto-leytonstone-london-depressing/)

I have heard of cut backs but that is Embarrassing who ever the store manager is he / she should hang there head in shame  ;D ;D
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Nomad on 29-12-16, 10:57AM
Alcohol sale.  No matter how the story is worded, the only question still remains:

Should retail assistants refuse to sell/serve you a product that their employer sells due to their own beliefs  :question:
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: tumshie on 29-12-16, 11:26AM
It sounds like the job applicant has made clear that they do not want to work with alcohol and Tesco has assured them that they won't have to. Then it's turned out Tesco got it wrong.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: tescopleb on 29-12-16, 11:42AM
To answer nomads question, the answer has to be no. In this case it's only caused embarrassment but there are examples as a high profile case on the Irish Republic proves where it can lead to unnecessary death.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Equalizer87 on 29-12-16, 12:33PM
I agree with tescopleb, you can't have one rule for one lot of staff and another for the rest.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: fargone on 29-12-16, 03:10PM
So if she wanted to wear a Burqa, that would be okay?
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: forrestgimp on 29-12-16, 04:56PM
Quote from: mexicopete on 28-12-16, 07:58PM
@Morris999 Thank you I rest my case for the prosecution Melud. ;) ;) :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I simply told you what the policy was/is as for the rest if thats how it is in your store fair enough but its not been my experience as for the rest, racism is an ugly thing.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Nomad on 29-12-16, 05:39PM
There is no connection between race and religion, why do some people erroneously connect the the two.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Equalizer87 on 29-12-16, 06:27PM
A good point Nomad, a religion isn't a race, but let's not try to open that can of worms.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Justjohn on 29-12-16, 06:59PM
Customers need to march with there feet, and take there business else were.

I was shopping in Tesco this morning . I had a trolley full of shopping , and I need a micro sd card. so I went to the  place were they are keep and saw it was empty , so clever me  I went to the Tesco phone shop , it was closed and had a barrier up , but I could see the micro sd card I wanted. at this moment a Tesco employee walk passed . I ask politely if she could get me one , she replied " I'm not authorised to go in there , your have to go to the customer service desk an ask"  I said " pardon are you refusing to serve me, your badge says your a general assistant , your job is to serve the customer " . she replied if you want one your have to go the customer service desk", I replied " no its no my job to go to the customer service desk and ask , its your job to go and ask for me " , so I took her name and said " now go and tell your manager I'm reporting you to head office and while you doing that now you can put all this shopping back, I going else were, were the staff will serve me ".  with that I walk out and shopped in morrisons

Tesco cannot afford to offer a poor customer service if they want to win customer back
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: alf on 29-12-16, 07:30PM

Well aren't you just a grade A w##ker.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: madness on 29-12-16, 07:50PM
Quote from: Justjohn on 29-12-16, 06:59PM
Customers need to march with there feet, and take there business else were.

I was shopping in Tesco this morning . I had a trolley full of shopping , and I need a micro sd card. so I went to the  place were they are keep and saw it was empty , so clever me  I went to the Tesco phone shop , it was closed and had a barrier up , but I could see the micro sd card I wanted. at this moment a Tesco employee walk passed . I ask politely if she could get me one , she replied " I'm not authorised to go in there , your have to go to the customer service desk an ask"  I said " pardon are you refusing to serve me, your badge says your a general assistant , your job is to serve the customer " . she replied if you want one your have to go the customer service desk", I replied " no its no my job to go to the customer service desk and ask , its your job to go and ask for me " , so I took her name and said " now go and tell your manager I'm reporting you to head office and while you doing that now you can put all this shopping back, I going else were, were the staff will serve me ".  with that I walk out and shopped in morrisons

Tesco cannot afford to offer a poor customer service if they want to win customer back
you sound like a bloody nightmare. as a person and a colleague
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: blutopia on 29-12-16, 08:16PM
Justjohn: Did Morrisons staff fetch your size of incontinence pants for you or are you now off to Asda?
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: mexicopete on 29-12-16, 08:20PM
Quote from: madness on 29-12-16, 07:50PM
Quote from: Justjohn on 29-12-16, 06:59PM
Customers need to march with there feet, and take there business else were.

I was shopping in Tesco this morning . I had a trolley full of shopping , and I need a micro sd card. so I went to the  place were they are keep and saw it was empty , so clever me  I went to the Tesco phone shop , it was closed and had a barrier up , but I could see the micro sd card I wanted. at this moment a Tesco employee walk passed . I ask politely if she could get me one , she replied " I'm not authorised to go in there , your have to go to the customer service desk an ask"  I said " pardon are you refusing to serve me, your badge says your a general assistant , your job is to serve the customer " . she replied if you want one your have to go the customer service desk", I replied " no its no my job to go to the customer service desk and ask , its your job to go and ask for me " , so I took her name and said " now go and tell your manager I'm reporting you to head office and while you doing that now you can put all this shopping back, I going else were, were the staff will serve me ".  with that I walk out and shopped in morrisons

Tesco cannot afford to offer a poor customer service if they want to win customer back
you sound like a bloody nightmare. as a person and a colleague

I was thinking along these lines madness, but refrained from feeding the Troll. :-X :-X :-X
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Shafted on 29-12-16, 09:51PM
Quote from: Justjohn on 29-12-16, 06:59PM
Customers need to march with there feet, and take there business else were.

I was shopping in Tesco this morning . I had a trolley full of shopping , and I need a micro sd card. so I went to the  place were they are keep and saw it was empty , so clever me  I went to the Tesco phone shop , it was closed and had a barrier up , but I could see the micro sd card I wanted. at this moment a Tesco employee walk passed . I ask politely if she could get me one , she replied " I'm not authorised to go in there , your have to go to the customer service desk an ask"  I said " pardon are you refusing to serve me, your badge says your a general assistant , your job is to serve the customer " . she replied if you want one your have to go the customer service desk", I replied " no its no my job to go to the customer service desk and ask , its your job to go and ask for me " , so I took her name and said " now go and tell your manager I'm reporting you to head office and while you doing that now you can put all this shopping back, I going else were, were the staff will serve me ".  with that I walk out and shopped in morrisons

Tesco cannot afford to offer a poor customer service if they want to win customer back
If you are a Tesco colleague you should be ashamed of yourself.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: SensibleSid on 29-12-16, 10:26PM
JustJohn, Whilst you're at Morrisons, ask if they can teach you the difference between "There and their" and "were and where".
You culd try for a lesson in manners, but that is, without doubt, asking too much.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: melanie on 30-12-16, 04:38AM
Its ridiculous,just get on and provide a service to the customer and leave your beliefs outside of work. If you are not prepared to serve the customer with the goods  get a job doing something else. #pandering to the staff.End of sermon ;)
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: wishicouldgo on 30-12-16, 07:38AM
Quote from: Justjohn on 29-12-16, 06:59PM
Customers need to march with there feet, and take there business else were.

I was shopping in Tesco this morning . I had a trolley full of shopping , and I need a micro sd card. so I went to the  place were they are keep and saw it was empty , so clever me  I went to the Tesco phone shop , it was closed and had a barrier up , but I could see the micro sd card I wanted. at this moment a Tesco employee walk passed . I ask politely if she could get me one , she replied " I'm not authorised to go in there , your have to go to the customer service desk an ask"  I said " pardon are you refusing to serve me, your badge says your a general assistant , your job is to serve the customer " . she replied if you want one your have to go the customer service desk", I replied " no its no my job to go to the customer service desk and ask , its your job to go and ask for me " , so I took her name and said " now go and tell your manager I'm reporting you to head office and while you doing that now you can put all this shopping back, I going else were, were the staff will serve me ".  with that I walk out and shopped in morrisons

Tesco cannot afford to offer a poor customer service if they want to win customer back
YOU SIR ARE PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A PERSON AND IF YOU ARE A COLLEAGUE  AN ABSOLUTE  DISGRACE.  I GUARANTEE IF THIS SITE DID NOT PROVIDE ANONYMITY YOU WOULD NOT BE SO BOLD AS TO POST AS YOU HAVE AS I FOR ONE WOULD FIND YOUR STORE AND GIVE YOU THE SAME KIND OF DISGRACEFUL TREATMENT YOU GAVE TO THAT COLLEAGUE.  >:( >:( >:(

[admin]No need to SHOUT[/admin]
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: fargone on 30-12-16, 04:03PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LGzrYUGXdI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LGzrYUGXdI)
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Pezzer on 30-12-16, 05:19PM
wishicouldgo............There are certain parts of the store that General assistants are not allowed to go, maybe she should have broken the rules just for you and been sacked. I think you should be ashamed of yourself to be honest, best really that you go shop at another supermarket, because Tesco staff do not need your grief.......Sorry to say but think your attitude STINKS......................... >:(

[admin]I believe you are attacking the wrong poster.[/admin]
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Pezzer on 30-12-16, 09:58PM
Yes my bad it was directed at the wrong person, apologies to wishicouldgo  :( Thank you for bringing this to my attention ........
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: A1bert on 23-01-19, 12:16PM
Although slightly different to the original posters question. Could anyone tell me if it's still a requirement to fill in the refusal of alcohol sale log book. I've not seen it for months in store and wondered if it had been done away with.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Rad on 23-01-19, 12:47PM
Not Tesco policy.  Some local authorities make it a condition of the licence.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: A1bert on 23-01-19, 04:17PM
Thanks for quick reply. Wasn't sure
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Rad on 23-01-19, 05:27PM
No problem.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Arketti on 26-06-19, 09:35AM
Hi can anyone advise please. Once a colleague has followed the challenge 25 policy and asked for Id which the customer did not have and therefore the sale was refused, can a manager then overrule you on this decision?
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: spacerman on 26-06-19, 09:41AM
No because you are legally culpable, if they try to overrule you call the duty manager if they agree log out of the check out, stand back and tell them to log in and make the sale.

If they try to give you a let's talk contact your regional manager.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Welshie on 26-06-19, 10:02AM
The policy used to be "you say , we say" , so a manager had to back you up , once customer was gone they might have told you that you were wrong but in front of the customer they were meant to fully support your decision  .
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: VladPutin on 26-06-19, 10:40AM
I have a very low opinion of managers, but unless the customer you're refusing to serve is a Chelsea Pensioner in full uniform, I can't see many managers being stupid enough to overrule you. Because if it goes the shape of the pear, at the very least they've just done more damage to their career than the MP who grabbed the female protester by the scruff of her neck. At worst, they are looking at a criminal record.

As others have said, if it does happen, you still have the right to log off, step away from the till and let the manager do it themselves. The law of the land trumps tesco policy. Ordering someone to commit what they genuinely believe to be a crime is not a reasonable request.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Walker on 26-06-19, 06:04PM
A manager can't force you to serve someone alcohol if you've refused under think 25.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Rad on 29-06-19, 08:33PM
If you've asked someone who is clearly about 40 and they don't have i.d. then the manager can take them to a separate till and serve them if they want.   This wouldnt happen very often but it does happen.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: grim up north on 01-11-20, 05:00PM
Can a person refuse to pick alcohol in a distribution centre for the same religious reasons?
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: notsofunny on 02-11-20, 12:44AM
Not that I have ever heard that, other wise it would be the same about picking meat items for vegans, or condoms for others.

If it's for a Muslim then point out that they are not allowed to drink it, nothing says they can't handle it, also the hand gel we are all using has alcohol in it, when we have an operation alcohol is used, then also the fact that working for someone like Tesco part of the pay they get is from profits that come from alcohol sales.  Some years ago we had a problem like this and I then went and asked a Muslim Imam and this is what he told me which I went back and pointed out  (I am using The Muslim faith since that is what I came across).

If  your asking for yourself, then I will repeat what the Imam said, which is "some people just Complicate things way to much".
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: grim up north on 02-11-20, 01:14PM
It's not for me. But it's been brought to my attention
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: lucgeo on 02-11-20, 03:32PM
That's a toughy 8-)

If the employee is a new starter, and declaring their faith prohibits the touching of alcohol, then I would think that must be accepted, and their picks should not include alcohol, but subbed with an alternative pick list....I admit, I don't know the procedures in distribution, or how easy it would be to adjust the picks to accommodate  ???

If the employee is established, and suddenly declares this refusal is faith based, having done these picks in the past without any apparent discomfort or comment, then this should be investigated tactfully but firmly.

I would not think the picking of meat by vegans, or even condoms for others could be comparable, as the main concern would be the alcohol cases drop and break, with alcohol spilling onto the person. They probably use soap rather than alcohol based gel?

However....perhaps the Imam just thinks what we all think...by summing up daily problems from all walks of life, beliefs etc, in a nutshell

Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: gomezz on 02-11-20, 04:54PM
The various Islamic countries of the world certainly have no problem with handling crude oil which is a mix of many alcohols.  As far as I know it is only the drinking of it which is goes against their religious teachings.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: dotnochance on 02-11-20, 06:38PM
Erm what kind of alcohol are you selling in your store? you're  not toughing the alcohol  is in a bottle/can
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: notsofunny on 02-11-20, 07:19PM
Quote from: lucgeo on 02-11-20, 03:32PM
That's a toughy 8-)

If the employee is a new starter, and declaring their faith prohibits the touching of alcohol, then I would think that must be accepted, and their picks should not include alcohol, but subbed with an alternative pick list....I admit, I don't know the procedures in distribution, or how easy it would be to adjust the picks to accommodate  ???

If the employee is established, and suddenly declares this refusal is faith based, having done these picks in the past without any apparent discomfort or comment, then this should be investigated tactfully but firmly.

I would not think the picking of meat by vegans, or even condoms for others could be comparable, as the main concern would be the alcohol cases drop and break, with alcohol spilling onto the person. They probably use soap rather than alcohol based gel?

However....perhaps the Imam just thinks what we all think...by summing up daily problems from all walks of life, beliefs etc, in a nutshell

Vegans have a Belief just like those  of faiths, every thing is about belief  and how you feel about it, same goes for Condoms which is banned for Christians/Muslims/And Jews.

what the Imam said was based on Islamic law, he even pointed out that years ago most Muslims did not use perfumes that had a Alcohol base, this has now been removed and Muslims have been told to stop adding to the rules, meaning it says do not drink it.  Having said that Islam forbids over eating, smoking, drug taking, or anything that will harm other person or others.

The next thing we will find is that Jews,Muslims and some Christians will ask that they can't handle pork or non Kosha foods, Hindus will ask to be moved to a department which is all veg, Sikhs will refuse to handle cigs.

I would love to know if this person is a Muslim, for no other reason than to educate them on what Islam says since today I have just spoken to a few of my Muslim friends who have backed up what the Imam has said.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Cinderella on 02-12-20, 09:48AM
Quote from: Arketti on 26-06-19, 09:35AM
Hi can anyone advise please. Once a colleague has followed the challenge 25 policy and asked for Id which the customer did not have and therefore the sale was refused, can a manager then overrule you on this decision?

I was told that a cashier’s decision can’t be overridden. No one can be forced to sell something, if they have judged the customer to look under 25. The policy is literally “look, assess...” so they are asking us to make our own judgement! If I judge someone to be under 25, and a manager comes along and tells me to serve them, I would refuse. I would say I am not comfortable making the sale, but they are welcome to do so on another till, at their own risk. Then I would store the transaction and hand it to the manager, to do with as they see fit.

The only problem with this though, is that any manager attempting to override the decision and serving the customer themselves, then leaves you open to abuse from that customer. That happened to me. I refused a sale to a boy who looked about 18/19 and wouldn’t show me ID. He then kept coming back with other people, and verbally abused me to an awful degree. It was three years ago, and the memory of the way they treated me still hurts when I remember it today! And a manager just stood there and watched the whole thing. The lack of support when being abused by customers is one of the main reasons I want to leave Tesco as soon as the economy has stabilised.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: lackofinterest on 02-12-20, 03:59PM
report this manager to the union and the store manager immediately. they are going against policy!!!  >:( >:(
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: NightAndDay on 02-12-20, 04:21PM
The Store Manager is usually the license holder (the license is now attached to people, not premises) if an underage transaction was made, then it's old mateyboy the manager who will get their goose cooked and incur heavy fines, you will also get in trouble, but the license holder would be spit roasted by Tesco on one end and by the licensing authority on the other. (As Tesco could very well lose their right to sell alcohol from that particular store).

To make not so much out of it, the license holder could be sent to prison and bummed in the showers daily until release, you would probably be sent on a training scheme in comparison.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: expressman77 on 02-12-20, 04:56PM
Quote from: gomezz on 02-11-20, 04:54PM
The various Islamic countries of the world certainly have no problem with handling crude oil which is a mix of many alcohols.  As far as I know it is only the drinking of it which is goes against their religious teachings.
If you check you can read that muslims are not supposed to touch any bottles  / cans or boxers that contain any alcoholic drink ,I've worked with many that practise this ,which  is easily managed  either by customer holding item whilst cashier uses mobile scanning device or even colleague next to them doing it
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: notsofunny on 02-12-20, 06:13PM

I have posted before that A Muslim is only banned from drinking  Alcohol ,  Islam does not forbid you from touching it ,  If any Muslim says so ask them that , should they be working for a company that pays a salary from profits that are partly made from selling things Like Alcohol .pork , condoms ?,,

This was confirmed to me years ago when I had the problem of some staff that said they could not handle it , confirmed by what Muslims called a Mufti which is like someone at the top of Islamic teachers ,  he and other muslims pointed out that when you have a Jab at the doctors or hospital like we are about to have for this Virus they clean your arm with alcohol same when they operate on you , as well as other medicine ,

I have a friend that is Muslim and when I asked him he told me that as a Taxi driver he would not be able to work since the most busy days being friday/sat nights he picked up people that half drunk would hand him money which had touched hands that had touched alcohol , 

Thats my take on it from what Muslims have told me , if someone says other wise they need to learn or are pulling a fast one  :(
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: expressman77 on 02-12-20, 08:06PM
Just search in Google " can muslims touch alchol bottles "
And it states they should not touch containers bottke,cans carrying alcohol
Nothing about pulling a fast one it's just how strong they follow their beliefs.
Like some women cover their face and some dont
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: notsofunny on 03-12-20, 04:33AM
What is Google  ???

No one can over rule a Mufti besides a grand Mufti which this man has become ,

A Mufti is someone who has reached a level in the religious knowledge (requiring a university degree and acknowledgement of peers) that allows him to give jurisprudence judgments on matters of religion.

As to face coverings it is more to do with tradition not religion , again this was confirmed By the Mufti,  unless you follow extreme ISIS thinking, in which case you would not even work for a company that sells alcohol.

A last point, non of the Muslims left work they all carried on serving at the tills and many went on to hold alcohol licences, anyway that's my take on it.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Totot on 03-12-20, 09:34AM
Muslim can touch the bottle of alcohol, even the alcohol itself, touch pig, pork, dog etc.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Cinderella on 07-12-20, 08:03AM
I used to work in a place that served alcohol. The majority of our Muslim staff would scan the bottles, but wouldn’t pour any alcoholic drinks. Another staff member would have to quickly pour and hand their drinks to the customers. We had only one staff member who refused to scan the bottle as well. Selling alcohol, but not pouring it was the more common situation. During my time at Tesco so far no one has refused to sell alcohol. It is an expected part of the role!

One of the cleaners in our store says she can’t clean up alcohol spills - that was something I hadn’t come across before.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: beentheredoneit on 28-12-20, 02:01PM
a manager certainly can override a cashier - but would be very stupid to. Cashier generally have more experience of think 25 than managers and should be supported.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: penguin on 28-12-20, 07:14PM
Managers should not be over riding anyone when it comes to think 25, policy is you say no we say no, several managers have got into trouble over the years for selling booze to people who either had no proof of age or were drunk after a cashier had initially said no.
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: Geordie101 on 12-09-21, 03:58PM
Managers are meant to back you up regarding your decision. It's happened to me twice where a manager has decided to override my decisions. Both times the customers clearly looked underage, other members of staff agreed.. guess that didn't matter in the eyes of the managers🤷‍♀️
Title: Re: selling alcohol
Post by: FarmerFred on 13-09-21, 09:34AM
If a manager tried to override a Think 25 decision I would be signing off the till and waiting for the disciplinary because the training & policy is clear that if you assess someone as under 25 that the sale must not proceed without valid ID & the manager is going against that. Remember that you as the cashier are responsible for making the assessment and can be personally prosecuted for an underage sale - it's rare, but can happen. That's of course assuming that the colleague isn't being well and truly ott & asking middle aged folk for ID, or refusing a sale because a parent has their child with them!

As regards Muslims and alcohol - there is no definitive answer because as with Christianity there are many different branches interpretations. Roman Catholics don't agree with Greek Orthodox or CofE, Methodists, Baptists, etc etc. on every aspect of their religion. For instance the RC Church is generally anti contraception, but you'll generally find that Baptists will generally be accepting of it, likewise with divorce. With Islam, the two main "denominations" are Shia & Sunni & even within those two groups there are different branches and schools of thought. It's worth noting though that Muhammed cursed
Quote...the wine-presser, the one who has it pressed, the one who drinks it, the one who conveys it, the one to whom it is conveyed, the one who serves it, the one who sells it, the one who benefits from the price paid for it, the one who buys it, and the one for whom it is bought.
because they are all complicit in distracting people from their devotions to their god.