Hi
I thought that as we are in a rather strange ( even by their standards), it might be useful to have a thread for food stock managers who have or have not lost their positions. If we could keep to this topic, it may be of benefit to those affected.
The timescale of 6 months has been memtioned. In my briefing no timescale was mentioned, so I told Ski would hang on for redundancy.
Anyone experienced different - one near me was told 12 months (large extra), another took .com team manager almost straight away .....
Experiences please.
Do you think redundancy will be offered in 6 months? There is a vacancy instore just now I could move into but would rather hold out for redundancy if its on the table. All I keep getting told is its an annual review, so soft structure change and not a formal process.
It's the £30,000 capped question 8-)
You need to go with your gut here, but there are a lot of stock control managers affected and little alternative roles available. I think it is a good idea having this thread, as all can exchange information given, or lack of in some cases!
All are being told different, or nothing at all. One manager (sorry username escapes me )has regularly posted to update the unwillingness of their senior area group personnel manager, to respond to questions posed, or reply to emails requesting clarification.
How many times were the CA's in the past years, informed in the group chat from the SM, prior to consultations starting, that there's "no redundancy!" Five times, in my store! Some panicked before consultations started, either leaving or taking less hours on another dept, to then find that those going into consultation, who wouldn't drop hours, or weren't job matched, were getting redundancy!
And now, Dave Lewis is bailing out, which tells you what apart from he waited for his payout :-X
Food stock here. Not been told anything. In an extra. Heard its a soft change but only in affected stores. I'd be quite happy taking the money rather than the new role !
I'm going to ride it out till the 6 month timeframe is up. I don't want to do any other role bar the one I currently do, and they can't force me out of my contract, so will carry on as I do, helping my team deliver a good job despite the huge negative influences of the replenishment teams due to lack of resources!
Quote from: Me2015 on 02-10-19, 12:44PM
I'm going to ride it out till the 6 month timeframe is up. I don't want to do any other role bar the one I currently do, and they can't force me out of my contract, so will carry on as I do, helping my team deliver a good job despite the huge negative influences of the replenishment teams due to lack of resources!
They are trying to strongly push me out of role into another, obviously resisting and seeking unions help...legal help if it gets to that point!!
Om12nv, you can't be forced or pushed to do anything you don't want; remember this is an informal process at this stage, so the tone and behaviour of your senior managers must be raised as a concern.
FS Managers are given the opportunity to apply for any role they see within the area they live, regular conversations to be had and an agreement made, if acceptable within 2-3 months. Failing that this can be extended to 6 months where a decision will surely be made by corporate, on the longevity of this role.
Don't be pushed over, raise your concerns. They legally must offer alternative employment however if you take into account the legal perspective, the alternative must be 'suitable' as what is suitable for me might not be for you, and vice versa! Stick to your guns
Why can't the company just offer voluntary redundancy across the whole workforce. Those that want to stay can those that don't can go.
Probably because Tesco know if it was voluntary redundancy they would never staff a shop on top of the vacancy's they have now.
Simply they can't afford to pay out that much.
I keep asking my lead people partner how many stock managers are being kept in the company and what criteria is being used to establish who stays and who goes in the role. She didn't reply to start off, then I kept emailing until I got a reply off her. She answered my questions like a politician and gave no answers. So I've asked again and will keep on and on and on........
Think a lot of food stock managers have long lengths of service and thus experience. Think the worry is if they offered voluntary redundancies too many would leave and the business would end up in the same situation it did with merchandising ie too many quit leaving a mass of vacancies and lots of training needed by people remaining to up-skill themselves
Quote from: Srgd2170 on 03-10-19, 02:28PM
I keep asking my lead people partner how many stock managers are being kept in the company and what criteria is being used to establish who stays and who goes in the role. She didn't reply to start off, then I kept emailing until I got a reply off her. She answered my questions like a politician and gave no answers. So I've asked again and will keep on and on and on........
Email Emma.Taylor@tesco.com
She UK People Partner, she 'may' offer something more than political BS!
Last week I pushed back and said I am happy with my position and not looking to change...this week half year reviews are back and I am a miss on my "behaviour" 🤔
Lol, That is so trasparent as to be not there. Any tribunal would see that for what it is.
Quote from: Om12nv on 08-10-19, 05:41PM
Last week I pushed back and said I am happy with my position and not looking to change...this week half year reviews are back and I am a miss on my "behaviour" 🤔
That's BS by the way! Unless you have not been doing your role to the expected standard, and if that were the case you should have been spoken to before your review, then you have to put in a discrimination grievance against your line manager!
The review is not the place to tell you about any issues, what is spoken about should not be new to you, therefore any 'miss' would be overturned and set to standard score!
Quote from: Srgd2170 on 03-10-19, 02:28PM
I keep asking my lead people partner how many stock managers are being kept in the company and what criteria is being used to establish who stays and who goes in the role. She didn't reply to start off, then I kept emailing until I got a reply off her. She answered my questions like a politician and gave no answers. So I've asked again and will keep on and on and on........
unofficially our store once found out that a headcount of 10 or more GAs meant a manager stayed I think it was the first time round of nights to days when the non food stock control manager role went as they only had 6-8 staff at the time.
I'm quite interested to know how they measure the behavior criterion, as to the layman it sounds like office politics holds sway in who gets promoted and how people get rated on performance (we all know it does, but having an implied political measure such as "behaviour" confirms and legitimises that it's who you are, not how you do that gets you promoted, which is not a good thing").
Certain roles are easy to get promoted from. Or do certsin things for the store ie lots of community nonsense charity work on store time of course. The service manager role that has mainly gone was an easy route up to the next easiest role of personel manager. I've seen pms progress through the company without ever having had a filling manager role.
Quote from: NightAndDay on 08-10-19, 08:49PM
I'm quite interested to know how they measure the behavior criterion, as to the layman it sounds like office politics holds sway in who gets promoted and how people get rated on performance (we all know it does, but having an implied political measure such as "behaviour" confirms and legitimises that it's who you are, not how you do that gets you promoted, which is not a good thing").
Generally it would be behind the scenes against shop floor. It's ok to complain and challenge in an office but not to bring it to shop floor and involve others, bring down the team. It's hard when it's personal to you and I speak from experience as I have been through this myself, twice. The compliance role was left hanging a very long time. They knew the role was vulnerable and had to live with it. I don't honestly know what is better as its hard to live with this hanging over you but if you have warning you can do things to help live mortgage insurance and look at moving into other roles. You can make life choices like not buying that new car but on the other hand you have to live with knowing your job may not be safe. On the other side of things a structure change with no warning does not have this hanging over you.
I think the questions to ask are ones that can be answered. Until a full structure change comes a lot of the questions can't be answered. If store managers and people partners do know exact figures of roles being removed in time they will be told not to give out information and until it comes it will only be at best a guide.
I think the questions to be asked are about vacancies now or upcoming in your area.
-details of vacancies now and upcoming
-are you going to be invited to apply for vacancies
-what happens if you opt not to apply, does this mean that you have chosen to make yourself vulnerable and will it be held against you
-expected time scales
-will any vacancies be restricted to vulnerable roles and if so when
The list goes on
It's also important to ask how these performance measures are measured, if there is no structure or measurable elements that constitutes a rating, it could serve Tesco managers as a backdoor to illegitimately start the SYP process against said managers as a way to save the company money by "managing them out of the business", it also could raise further questions on what oversite or governance is in place to make sure that the SYP process is used legitimately.
When a company has strong corporate governance measures in place, litigation is managed better as a result.
A miss on behaviour, is so random, that it can't surely be recognised as such. Behaviour, is an ongoing assessment, needing to be highlighted and met throughout the assessment period. I would certainly challenge that, as should for any future reason, your criteria plays a part, this could be deemed a negative.
It's all about being part of "that clique"...I'm not...."career laughs" are rife in this place.
On the face of it, this seems quite simple. The Food Stock control job is not going to be there in 6 months or whatever it is in your store. The job will be gone. You can't carry on doing it. With that said, don't you just have 2 options really?
Apply for other managerial jobs if you see any roles advertised that seem acceptable to yourself in the next 6 months if your wish is to stay with the company in a managerial role.
Or:
Don't apply for any other jobs within the 6 month period as you feel they're not suitable and then your job is axed at the end of the 6 months. At this point they surely have no other option but to make you redundant and pay you off as your job no longer exists. Obviously if you're reasonably long service and would welcome an early retirement or a fresh start elsewhere than this would seem like a good option. Really, what else can the company actually do, legally?
Obviously this is a very important time and it would probably be advisable to take some kind of legal advice if you're looking to ride out the 6 months and see what happens. My guess is they'll get as many food stockies into other roles voluntarily and then when it comes towards the end of the 6 month period they'll offer the remaining people who have dug their heels in redundancy.
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
if you are offered a similar role without loss of hours or pay and same shifts then they don't have to pay you redundancy. if they can only offer mickey mouse hours and/or shifts you don't want then dismissal would be unfair. in my opinion you'd win at a tribunal. redundancy not offered for one reason and one reason only.
[admin]Edited. Nomad[/admin]
Quote from: coffeemate on 09-10-19, 08:54PM
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
I would be very interested to know where you have obtained this piece of information from.
There are still a good number of Food Stock Managers who are not prepared to move.
I can see the People Team busy in 2020 attending a large number of Employment Tribunals.
See now I'm a Stock and Admin Manager and have had this conversation with my manager and have been told it's me going. Very Fishy
Quote from: coffeemate on 09-10-19, 08:54PM
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
Totally incorrect, both legally speaking and company process!
The offered role must be 'suitable' as mentioned, a tribunal would find in favour of the complainer
In the metro structure change people were job matched. If you turn down the job that was offered you did put yourself into the category of being dismissed. It was accept the job you have been offered or not. It was not a choice off accept this or one of the other roles that are available in the store or area.
With the stock control manager change, are they tracking jobs as they come up and are turned down? If you are being monitored on this I think it's unfair, the job is either gone now or not and as soft change implies it is not forced. Until it's forced you can not have not moving held against you but if you really don't want redundancy you should not try and cling onto a job you have been told is going.
Tesco has been caught out in the "soft structure change" arguement before where an employment tribunal decreed that not only was the consultation process and disciplinary metered out for not accepting tye changes ridiculous, but the the addition of the responsibilities of another management role added to the existimg one going through the change did not meet the definition of "soft structure change".
As for rejecting jobs offered to you, the law still has the last say on this, specifically around "reasonable" redeployment.
Quote from: DJL on 10-10-19, 07:06PM
Quote from: coffeemate link=topic=17075.msg233771#msg233771
date=1570650875
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
Totally incorrect, both legally speaking and company process!
The offered role must be 'suitable' as mentioned, a tribunal would find in favour of the complainer
I now have a grievance pending a hearing on this situation.
[gmod]Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).[/gmod]
Any idea who is hearing it? People partner or lead people partner?
[gmod]Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).[/gmod]
Waiting to hear . ...
This information is correct, I have been informed by the people partner. Yes Tesco have to offer you a suitable alternative but all team manager roles are suitable as long as they are within a reasonable distance.
Diminishing of workload ?
In my PLACE of work (not the wider business) ?
Have you had this conversation recorded on paper?
If my People Partner said this to me, I would want it recorded in an meeting with my union rep present.
Quote from: coffeemate on 11-10-19, 10:16AM
This information is correct, I have been informed by the people partner. Yes Tesco have to offer you a suitable alternative but all team manager roles are suitable as long as they are within a reasonable distance.
Quote from: Mildew on 11-10-19, 08:17AM
Quote from: DJL on 10-10-19, 07:06PM
Quote from: coffeemate link=topic=17075.msg233771#msg233771
date=1570650875
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
Totally incorrect, both legally speaking and company process!
The offered role must be 'suitable' as mentioned, a tribunal would find in favour of the complainer
I now have a grievance pending a hearing on this situation.
Who have you taken the grievance out on out of interest and how did you word it??
Quote from: coffeemate on 11-10-19, 10:16AM
This information is correct, I have been informed by the people partner. Yes Tesco have to offer you a suitable alternative but all team manager roles are suitable as long as they are within a reasonable distance.
No they are not!! Just to be clear, what you are suggesting is a manager should be made to do any manager role, because they are classed as a 'manager?'
I would like to point out if this was followed, a tribunal would find in favour of a complainer should an alternative not be deemed as 'suitable' as it is individual to the person, not the role! You can't say somebody who works days can be 'suitably' made to work nights, or even twighlight for that matter!
Away and have a work with yourself!
8-) along the same lines as a CA could only be job matched to their own department, even though their contract would state they are a CUSTOMER ASSISTANT. Then they had the choice to apply for alternative roles within the store, or other store's vacancies, or take redundancy. Same principle, but different standards for management ???
The 4 main criterias a judge will look on is Pay, location, hours of work and differences in the role, for pay and location, unless the employee is willing to move further away from home to work, then any longer commute would likely mean increased cost on travel and less time to spend at home, where possible, the employer should look to re-deploy current employees to other stores equidistant or closer to where they live, they should not be out of pocket on either pay or location.
Hours should both be the same as is in previous role and should not conflict with an employees availability (if it does then further probing would be made to ascertain why said employee is unavailable, if it's for a reason such as not wanting to work lates, then the judge won't look favourably on that.)
The last criteria is the one that Tesco is trying to hornshoe in as "soft structure changes" if the judge were to be presented with role packs of the previous role and new role. They would deem the additional responsibilities of a now redundant manager role being added to another managers role is not a "soft structure change" (I've not seen this phrase being used anywhere else before it does seem that it's just Tesco trying to get out of paying people redundancy).
Likewise other aspects such as skilled elements of responsibilities etc will also be taken into account on whether the role is suitable.
Anyone been offered/forced into the Stock & Admin role?
Can you be made to work hours outside you're availability window.
8-) NO!
Been told recently the job is now merged into one. I'll wait for redundancy thanks.
How is this an informal soft change with the role going and no redundancy being offered?
I really don't understand why it's not a redundancy situation.
I'm in the same situation and don't want another department or a different shop.
For those of you who are unhappy or feeling forced and pushed..request to fill in a legal pack from the union.
Said it before, will say again, along with the others who have noted the same facts following their conversations with store manager;
The role is being removed
The 'affected' managers are being given a lengthy opportunity to apply for another role
Nobody is being forced, if they are, every conversation must be recorded for tribunal claim
The 'affected' managers will be offered 'suitable' alternative
This 'suitable' alternative is down to the persons circumstances
A manager will not be given a manager role for the sake of 'being an manager'
After the 6 month timescale those left will be asked to leave
Wait it out, no need to contact legal professionals, this will just cost a fortune
if you are in the union leave, what good are they to managers?
Has anyone on here actually had a documented conversation or is it the usual informal chat. Let's be honest. If the co can informally move stock managers into other roles quietly before the formal process starts they potentially can save a lot of money.
Has anyone seen or can post on here the soft change briefing at all ?
For my money the new role would be a step too far especially after the restructure only a few months ago. Any thoughts from anyone ?
It's Tesco, they'll have a "process" that has to be followed, but, as usual it won't be followed correctly, you'll have the Area Managers giving the pretense of policy is law, that process must be followed without question, but behind closed doors they will imply the expectation of doing a Jack the Lad job under the delusion that by saving the company money they will curry favour with the directors and be in line for a promotion, they want the affected colleagues to disappear without paying out, they will of course say otherwise publically.
Anyone left still?
I am still in my position and have had no further meetings for a number of weeks now. I believe we have now passed the 3 month timeframe and don't expect to hear anything now until after Christmas.
I know some that have taken a role elsewhere in store, so this gives the full 'A' to the Stock and Admin Manager now, so good luck to them all!
With the company saying 6 months for this process, it will hopefully be more clear once the busy festive period is over.
I have no intention of moving to another role, so I'm waiting with interest about any further information!
8-) I hope you are proved right, and by standing your ground, showing them you won't be brow beaten. If they eventually offer redundancy to those managers who refused to move, how will they deal with the backlash from the other managers who took another role.
My understanding from conversations with my Store Manager is those that have move are doing so willingly therefore no comeback in relation to your comments
Quote from: coffeemate on 09-10-19, 08:54PM
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
They can only dismiss you if you have not taken a job that was selected for you. If jobs have come up and you have applied and not been successful you have shown that you have tried. If jobs have not come up you have not been able to find yourself another job. I think you only need to show you have tried. Opportunities are not the same in all areas so it can't be same for everyone.
Quote from: Redshoes on 11-11-19, 01:34PM
Quote from: coffeemate on 09-10-19, 08:54PM
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
They can only dismiss you if you have not taken a job that was selected for you. If jobs have come up and you have applied and not been successful you have shown that you have tried. If jobs have not come up you have not been able to find yourself another job. I think you only need to show you have tried. Opportunities are not the same in all areas so it can't be same for everyone.
Surely you cannot be dismissed by the company, if your being given extra responsibility and more workload.
Surely there is a case for a terms and conditions arguement, and that your role is being change to take on stock and admin role.
The government has strict laws on what constitutes a redundancy situation, for FSM's being redeployed it's acceptable as long as there's no loss of earnings, the work location is of similar distance to your current location, the job you're being redeployed to is within your capabilities (they should train you for the role regardless) and it's reasonable, if there is anything you find unreasonable about it in any way, you have to prove why it is.
Made to take a vacancy in an informal way? Good luck with that. Nothing can be made to happen informaly. If they try to push people into vacancies they would have to make it formal, and that changes the situation...
Quote from: NightAndDay on 11-11-19, 11:14PM
The government has strict laws on what constitutes a redundancy situation, for FSM's being redeployed it's acceptable as long as there's no loss of earnings, the work location is of similar distance to your current location, the job you're being redeployed to is within your capabilities (they should train you for the role regardless) and it's reasonable, if there is anything you find unreasonable about it in any way, you have to prove why it is.
True these comments however you are missing a key phrase and that is 'a suitable alternative'
Glad to see people are still on here. Think this will rumble on for awhile. All of it stinks to be honest. How many of us would not take redundancy if offered ?
Think the combining of job roles is sneaky without consultation but let's see. How many people have had formal note written meetings ? Probably is all informal at the moment but will save them a fortune if natural moves do occur before its live officially. However I've heard elsewhere it should be done by now. Who knows ?
Does anyone have the moving managers around the business pack please?
All online. Below is just the heading.
Moving Hours
We want T**** to be an honest and inspiring place to work where relationships are based on shared values and respect.
The retail environment and our customer shopping habits continually change, and to remain competitive our business needs to adapt. From time to time changes are needed to our colleague's terms and conditions of employment. In these situations we will always have open and honest conversations regarding the impact this could have on you.
This policy applies to all colleagues and managers who work in Tesco stores, offices and the customer engagement centres.
No, there were two packs given out at the announcement of the change. One specifically around moving managers around the business and the other was about briefing the change to the stakeholders ie food managers and stock and admin managers.
Has anyone had any further informal conversations with their Store Manager?
I'm aware that things may be dropped somewhat down the priority scale given the time of year, however based on the initial guidelines, the process should be completed by now and affected colleagues moved into a new role.
I know that more have taken a job offer than first thought, based both on this info from this site and chatting to other colleagues, so leads to the question why has this been the case; pressure from manager, financial uncertainty so the need to have 'any' job or is it something else?
I can only expect this to be brought back up after the festive period, where the additional time then starts. After that has elapsed, what then?!
Meetings should still be continuing. I keep having 'catch up's' whilst i may my decision.
I refuse to move roles. I have an ongoing grievance that I cannot discuss here. I have also taken legal advice. You do what's best for you individually.
Yep, still in...still having to have "catchups" whilst they are trying their best to tighten the screw placing indirect pressure on me in one way or another!!🙄
I feel that this will have a backlash, when all the managers they have manipulated into taking alternate roles, realise the ones who stuck it out are offered redundancy.
You are probably right but at that point there will be nothing they can do. Strikes me this is a way of not losing so many managers in one go.
When are they replacing Team Managers with Shift Leaders in all stores?
That is the idea, but Tesco are looking for the cheapest way to do it.
How many out there are hanging out for something better.
I have turned down other positions as I feel they are not suitable. Our stock admin manager has moved sideways. I refused this role as when I previously did it I ended up off for months with stress.The SM has divided up the various stock admin responsibilities to other team managers, but not me.
Can't wait to see what January brings ....
Most are probably holding out for redundancy, as there is not much confidence that there won't be further restructures.
wait out for redundancy or protected pay as a dot com picker easiest job in the shop immune to checkout calls and if its not on the shelf not your problem. easy money
Does anyone have the annual restructure process pack?? Does it state reasonable or suitable?
The law states reasonable and suitable, therefore Tesco has to comply as a minimum.
Well they have managed to make a previous, pi role merged with stock control and merchandising as a "soft structure" as well as non food inc into grocery which is a huge job.
Wait till they merge counters and dairy into one and call that a soft structure change or produce and Isb. Whatever's next ?
Either way it's a joke. Give me redundancy any day.
Quote from: madness on 10-12-19, 12:40PM
Well they have managed to make a previous, pi role merged with stock control and merchandising as a "soft structure" as well as non food inc into grocery which is a huge job.
I believe there was an article where a manager successfully sued Tesco for constructive dismissal over how they handled a "soft structure change". She was suspended for questioning the changes to her role.
I'm still in current role, and like somebody said previous, I'm not getting any additional work for future activities, I'm left out of the conversation; don't know if that's because I'm pushing everything back in relation to the Informal Chat, or is there more to it!
I know there is no ' suitable, alternative' role for me, this is probably the case for those that are still left in role (they know that too) and I'm sure given a large number, by the sounds of it, have been redeployed, once the Xmas period is out of the way, a more formal conversation will take place in relation to removing us from the role.
So what does everyone think about structure changes after xmas? Manager cull? Team Support? Will they carry on with the structure now in place in metro and Express stores?
Quote from: madness on 10-12-19, 12:40PM
Well they have managed to make a previous, pi role merged with stock control and merchandising as a "soft structure" as well as non food inc into grocery which is a huge job.
In a store with no nightshift the stock/admin manager now manages non-food stock control, fresh stock control, pi , space and range and wages/admin . This seems a huge job for one person .
Quote from: Justwaiting on 11-12-19, 04:13PM
So what does everyone think about structure changes after xmas? Manager cull? Team Support? Will they carry on with the structure now in place in metro and Express stores?
2 seemingly likely restrctures is Team Managers being replaced by Shift Leaders in SS and cluster site Express SMs becoming more mainstream.
Quote from: NightAndDay on 11-12-19, 06:19PM
Quote from: Justwaiting on 11-12-19, 04:13PM
So what does everyone think about structure changes after xmas? Manager cull? Team Support? Will they carry on with the structure now in place in metro and Express stores?
2 seemingly likely restrctures is Team Managers being replaced by Shift Leaders in SS and cluster site Express SMs becoming more mainstream.
Would that mean protected pay for ex Team Managers as Shift Leader is the same rate as Team Support?
Whilst discussing future structure changes anyone currently working in a metro and how is the structure working am I right in thinking they have one team manager if so what does the role mainly consist of also how the overall structure works or not.
Quote from: Justwaiting on 11-12-19, 07:00PM
Quote from: NightAndDay on 11-12-19, 06:19PM
Quote from: Justwaiting on 11-12-19, 04:13PM
So what does everyone think about structure changes after xmas? Manager cull? Team Support? Will they carry on with the structure now in place in metro and Express stores?
2 seemingly likely restrctures is Team Managers being replaced by Shift Leaders in SS and cluster site Express SMs becoming more mainstream.
Would that mean protected pay for ex Team Managers as Shift Leader is the same rate as Team Support?
Yes, however, the lowest earning Team Managers are only on about £1k-£1.5k a year more than a full time shift leader depending on if the shift leader works sundays/bank holidays meanimg protection pay might not be that much unless you're on 26k a year+ as team manager.
Quote from: Gizmo on 11-12-19, 09:19PM
Whilst discussing future structure changes anyone currently working in a metro and how is the structure working am I right in thinking they have one team manager if so what does the role mainly consist of also how the overall structure works or not.
I'm guessing it would depend on the size of the metro.
We have store manager, 2 team managers, 3 full time shift leaders and 2 part time shift leaders.
So....limbo comes to mind....any expectations from anyone with new year just around the corner?
Very quite this year on what changes are being planned.
So what are everyone's thoughts on what's to come?
Just like the winter we have not had yet it will all hit the fan soon me thinks😔
Quote from: Justwaiting on 17-01-20, 07:57PM
So what are everyone's thoughts on what's to come?
With Asda closing their meet and fish counters, it is worrying time again for Tesco part time counters.
with the brief that we have had in store about update to tablet, S&L books and training it looks to be admin and wages. Could be auditors too with these changes and the introduction of the hub.
More coming to tablet, can access your own shift patterns. Is this exceptions and booking holidays going on line too, if not it sounds like not far behind.
S&L books going online, removes the need to be audited in store.
Training, all new colleagues will no longer need training record cards and existing will retain cards for as long as they are relevant.
Huge changes and possible knock on effects.
with managing by hours introduced,I can see sickness going up as if holidays are eventually booked online first come first served,managers "favourites" will no longer get all the good weeks
Valid point...it gets rid of asking for specific dates, to be told already booked and noted by manager should you then go off sick on those dates. Also be interesting to see if 5* weekends and Christmas holidays are blocked, as currently there is a " no freeze weeks" in the partnership agreement, yet it's common practice by most dept managers to block these weeks. To display it on the tablet, by SM's discretion or similar, would be in contravention of the agreement.
Wk 1 update does not mention holiday bookings or exceptions. Just viewing shifts but I do think the rest won't be far behind.
The Sims ....... f***s sake that's what the business model is now.When did the twatco dlc become available.Dlc (download content) for non gamers.
[admin]Food Stock Managers[/admin]
I have heard that there is a conference call on thursday. All sm, rd, group people mgrs all to attend. Rumours are they going to announce restructure of stores.
we were told that was about the log books now going electronic from week 1,but who knows?
Electronic S&L books makes the outgoing role of stock/admin smaller. I also think that shift patterns on a app does the same. Managers will have to deal with colleagues complaining that holidays or shifts show wrong on the tablet so dept managers will have to ensure they are far enough ahead for it to be right. More work for individual managers and less for stock/admin.
I do think that soft structure changes will become forced but in my area this will have little impact as most have moved anyway. It could be that another round of soft structure changes are introduced. This enables people to move into other roles that become available and less redundancy so people who don't want to leave the company are not forced out. However, as we don't know what is coming it could be that the fresh stock admin manager has moved into a vulnerable role and may go into consultation anyway.
Who gives a monkeys. It better not be night crews getting done away with now I've left. Hopefully we are all getting paid out for the equal pay claim. :) £££ :D ;)
Stock and Admin Managers have nothing to do with log books, don't have one, and when compliance manager went they don't distribute/audit/sign, effectively unless on duty don't touch a log book.
If some still are doing the compliance job then sorry more fool them as it's now store or lead team accountability.
Quote from: Freddie31 on 19-01-20, 10:08PM
I have heard that there is a conference call on thursday. All sm, rd, group people mgrs all to attend. Rumours are they going to announce restructure of stores.
If it's not announced on Thursday it will be leaked. Extras following the same structure as metros/express more than likely
Deja vu is this not the same time as last year. whose for the chop this time.
Quote from: Littlehelpsvery on 20-01-20, 04:07PM
Quote from: Freddie31 on 19-01-20, 10:08PM
I have heard that there is a conference call on thursday. All sm, rd, group people mgrs all to attend. Rumours are they going to announce restructure of stores.
If it's not announced on Thursday it will be leaked. Extras following the same structure as metros/express more than likely
No one ever speaks about superstores makes me sad.
All express S.M to be on a zoom call on Thursday at 10am, and to be in a private area during the said call so something fairly big seems to be going on.
Hope that the last of the tesco security are going was told by union it would be this year
So are there any food stock managers still on here with any updates? I've been told the store managers are being put under a lot of pressure now Christmas is over to get them moved into other roles?
SMs can't do that as the process is informal and any moves can simply be refused. If they want to force it they would have to go formal and that's a different ball game. Too much store is being put on this weeks conference calls and zoom calls. They are business updates.
Thursday's zoom call about new wmty and no doubt the other new bits - on line rotas and s&l
Just wondering if wages are going yet its been two years since they first said wages were going. If everything is now on the new app ! !!
Think they will wait a few months till its embedded before doing anything to wages instore.
Advice needed please!
I have been a victim of so called soft structure changes and I have been forced into a job role I do not want and did not apply for. I have expressed my feelings many times.
I have had no formal meetings and not signed any agreements to this change, yet I have received a new contract with a changed job code etc. I have asked who I should raise a grievance too but again this was ignored.
I am now job hunting but do feel I should a least raise a grievance or would it be pointless? Thanks in advance.
Quote from: Mickymouse1962 on 21-01-20, 08:27AM
Hope that the last of the tesco security are going was told by union it would be this year
If it turns out to be true i will buy you a beer matey.
Tink, if that's from the food stick mgr role you've every reason to take issue. The process is totally informal. Nothing can be enforced.
What role did you end up with t?
I was not a stock control manager, this was the only relevant topic I could find to ask for some advice about soft structure moves / changes as I too was always told you could not be forced into any other role.
Are you currently doing the job that it says on your new contract? Have they already moved you or are the proposinh to move you?
Heard its pfs mnger going and some service mongers size dependent, good sources union briefing
I don't understand how the company could begin moving other roles into consultation and possibly redundancy, whilst leaving Food Stock Managers in limbo and trying to force these people into other roles through 'soft structure change'.
Quote from: kaled78 on 20-01-20, 07:52AM
we were told that was about the log books now going electronic from week 1,but who knows?
Surely you wouldn't hold a conference call for Log Books??? ;D ;D
You certainly would if it was such a large change as this. All s & l recorded done online so can be centrally checked instantly. As a company we are pretty bad at written ones - perhaps this way we will be forced to do properly.
Hopefully nice redundancy package for skilled bakers :thumbup:
I was thinking the same thing about bakers.
Hopefully at least some sort of news on it and for everyone else not knowing what's going on with their jobs.
Any food stock control manager heard anything? Is a formal process coming or is it still under the banner of "soft structure"!!
Looks like we will all find out next week.
Fingers crossed
Please scrap night fill, pay me off so i could study full time 'front end' developement ....
Stock control manager in my store looks after wages admin non food stock grocery fresh and merchandising. They have 2 people working on health and beauty stock control who work 7hrs a day between them who have to scan gap and some high value counts on a Wednesday, other than that they do nothing all day.
Are you sure they do nothing all day? As well as gaps and daily counts plus the big counts on a wednesday, surely they do osi as well? Gaps can take a while on non food side as well especially as lots of items are high value.
I think the 'they do nothing all day' was /s :)
Ah well that's made me look daft
As it stands the business has yet to make a decision regarding the remaining stock control managers.
The six month window ends in February.
I work full time night-shift and have done for the past 11 years. A few days ago our whole night team was pulled to the side and was told there will be no more redundancy's and that if there are job losses on nights you will be offered the same hours through the day.
Is this a sign we are losing our nights, and is it even legal not to offer some form of redundancy??
[gmod]Unless you are a food stock manager your post would have been better elsewhere. [/gmod]
Nights to days didn't and still hasn't landed well in alot of stores. Also the depots don't have the capacity to run fully at night.
Wage saving from nights in stores would be countered by the increased cost in the depot of night pickers drivers etc.
Nights to days is not a reasonable alternative job offer, it can be excepted by the employee if they so wish but have every right not to accept it as reasonable, thereby qualifying for redundancy if no other reasonable offer made.
Maybe but Tesco will just offer minimum redundancy
https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights/suitable-alternative-employment (https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights/suitable-alternative-employment)
Noting the part about hours, days wouldn't be suitable, i'd also look up your rights as night workers, your contract job title may be "customer assistant" and not specify nights, but there may be legal mechanisms which prevent this being used as a get out of redundancy card.
Back to the topic of Food Stock Managers, would there be a general agreement now, that most have moved into a new role; be it 'forced' as some have mentioned or 'agreed' as others have, given nearly 6 months is up?
For those that haven't, are you still being given informal discussions and advised of new opportunities, or has this stopped? Do you know if there are roles within your current area, and if so are you being 'pushed' that way?
Like a few have mentioned, the original brief was 3 months then 6 for those left, that timeframe is about to conclude and I would appreciate any thoughts or new information!
I'm still in the same role. I had the initial brief in August but nothing since. No informal discussions and no updates of roles in my area (not that I would take any). The stock and admin role was a vacancy in my store between August and December, which they tried to move me into for the first couple of weeks after the brief. I refused it and now it has been filled.Interested to see what happens when the 6 month time frame is up.
Its a disgraceful way to treat employees isnt it, leaving them in the dark for the best part of a whole year not very conducive to having good mental well being at the end of it.
Eewyn, are you a long term employee? Without giving too much away are there actual vacancies in your area? I know you have said you have refused and will continue to refuse any other roles, I'm the same, have done so since the off. There are only two ways in which they will get me to leave my current role and that is by either accepting a new role (which I'm not going to do) or making me surplus to requirements and following prescribed process.
As a matter of interest, are you like myself, wanting about with nothing to do as the simplifications have taken effect?
forrestgimp I entirely agree, these last 6 months have been unbearable, not only am I being told my job is no longer within management structure with all my accountabilities moving to the Stock and Admin manager, I'm not getting any form of communication about what the future holds! It's embarrassing stuff and certainly not Values lead which they go on and on about these days!!
I was told about other roles at the start, then again at a 3 month meeting. Since then Stock Admin became vacant and I was expected to move into that role. But I did that role year or so ago and it led to serious stress issues, so SM agreed that I shouldn't do it (I suspect he was advised that I would have a very strong case for constructive dismissal)
So no new stock admin manager appointed, instead the role was divided up and passed to other team managers (which as you can imagine went down very well).
So I still do food stock, although I have no job.
And await for news as to what they are going to do with me ....... I know what I want, but can't wait to find out.
I've been with the company 11 years, a manager for 6 years. There are no management vacancy posters on our vacancy board but I do know of a few through word of mouth. As I said, I've had no communication from my store manager regarding this. However, I haven't been made to feel pressured into taking another role at all. I was asked if I would like to take the stock and admin role and after I refused I heard nothing more of it. Maybe he's not bothering because I've already told him that I won't be accepting anything and he, like me, is waiting for the 6 months to see what the business comes up with next. The store I work in is the closest one to me, with the next closest superstore or extra roughly 10 miles away. I know that's not particularly far to travel compared to others but when I have the option to take a 5 minute walk to work, I don't really fancy changing to a 30+ minute drive considering traffic. I do find it difficult to fill my days now.
Good afternoon fellow sufferers. I find myself in the same position as yourselves. I have been a manager for well over twenty years and find the current circumstances totally unacceptable. I am in an area with hardly any other stores nearby and have very limited mobility. I would point blank refuse to take any vacancies, but there are none anyway and a high likelihood of none arising in the near future . The company has provided absolutely zero updates on our plight and their self imposed six month window is now looming. They clearly have no concern for our state of mind and how stressful this situation is. Hopefully they do the right thing and put those of remaining in the role into a formal consultation process as described in the first informal meeting, unless that was used to scare managers into vacancies.
I've not had any pressure put into me about taking another role, I made myself clear I'm relation to my thoughts about moving role, not a chance am I taking a move without me instigating it; which I won't!
Hopefully they do the right thing by us and ensure the correct process is followed
There can be no pressure applied. It's all informal, a situation of their own creation. If I get told informally to take a vacancy I will reply informally, get knotted .
8-) informal request - informal reply...spot on 8-)
We used to have a manager when trying to "cajole" people always start the conversation with, "I'll deny ever saying this but..." and then insist you do what she proposed, or face consequences. People quickly learnt to just turn and walk away, stating they couldn't hear her as she wasn't saying anything :thumbup: :D
Wmty complete. I think I made my feelings abundantly clear.
Has anyone heard of a temporary freeze on management moves / recruitment.
No I haven't heard that. Does anyone else have it in black and white the six month time frame as described in the first informal meeting?
It's in the original brief which we got in August. 3 months in the first instance then up to 6 to agree an informal move from role
It is , but i was been specifically told we were not allowed to have a copy of the brief at any point. Do you possess a copy DJL?
Maybe m360 could help??
I have it in black and white I just wondered if anyone else has. It's not the briefing though.
No, not given anything.
Cool. Thanks. :thumbup:
Not think I have an actual copy, but I've read it and it does say that! I must have a look to see if it's about thd office, if not can you pls post onto here?
Odd, I wasn't even allowed to read it and over the months I was categorically told I could not have a copy.
So do you have a copy? As you have mentioned a couple of times that you have it in 'black and white?'
TBF I looked at it on the off chance and should have taken the opportunity to copy it but never thought at the time!
I do but I can't post it. I have it as part of the action I took against the process that I mentioned some time ago. I had a response which had to be hard copied to me .
So your grievance got stone walled with process and paperwork to back it up?
Exactly what I wanted
What was your grievance about, and who heard it? I'm assuming it was rejected and you were told to wait out the 6 month informal process?
Back in August when this was 'announced' there was a real uncertainty about what the job was going to look like, and given the huge simplification made by the company with subsequent hours removed from the dept, there must be a plan. Like others, and let me know if your in the same situation, the role of a Food Stock Manager is now obsolete. With the continual efficiencies being made from the colleagues, why are managers not as affected, because I can safely say I have nothing to do. As soon as I come into work and catch up with my team, say after 20 mins, that's me twiddling my thumbs roll tea time, lunch time and then waiting to go home; I get paid a decent wage and some would love this kind of work environment however I can't, I need to be busy, I always was, but now the job is no more, we need to be given an appropriate answer on our futures!
My grievance had several points running into pages. The response was simply a repetition of what I was putting the grievance in against. Farcical. It clearly states a six month time frame which brings us to this month. Although who knows, the group next to mine was informed of the job removal three weeks before I was told, so depends what the starting date you look from.
I was told in the second week of September. My grievance was heard by a group pm
So is there something stopping you from posting the document; notes, names ect? It would be a very useful item to have.
I was formally told, at a meeting with SM, my role was to be informally removed and all Are to move to Stock and Admin Manager. First 3 months to advise me of told I 'could' apply for and this will go up to 6 months if no movement. There has, and never will be, any movement from my point of view.
I asked several times what would happen after 6 months, no response, just 'wait and see' and given I was spoken to W/C 26th Aug, that timeframe is now into its final days
Unfortunately that's the case DJL , too much personal information is on it. I totally agree with you. We are in the final month of a timeline imposed by them. The term formal process was used in the initial informal talk for the end of the six months. I do hope it wasn't used to scare people into vacancies. They now need to follow this through to its natural conclusion and a formal process for those of us left.
You should ask what happens after 6 months with at least the knowledge of the minimum that is required by law if for nothing else to avoid the situation where Tesco dismisses you without paying redundancy citing offering reasonable alternatives or taking reasonable steps, Tesco has been sucessfully sued for constructive dismissal before for bungling the consultation process.
That's totally understandable, I'm sure I will source one from my store.
I did think the role was going to be removed as part of the Stock Control simplification in May, as it didn't make sense to me then why I was being kept on, and now all these months down the line I'm confused as to why I am still doing a job with little routine!
I'm hoping there will be further clarity in the next 2 weeks, otherwise I will probably go down the Grievance Route like yourself, to try get an end to this last 6 months of uncertainty and mental torture!
Good luck
I'm now taking this further up the food chain . The impact on mental well being is totally unacceptable. Gods luck to you also DJL.
I asked that at the very start, NightandDay, and was told it was unclear and had to wait.
After your last comments I have looked further into the legal point of view, and have given clear indications about my personal circumstances and my continued objections to any move of role, everything I have been offered, and it's been very little, have been totally unsuitable based on my personal circumstances.
Dismissal simply won't happen. Firstly it's an informal process . Secondly there are in some instances no vacancies. Finally if they decide to go formal they will have to offer redundancy.
Interesting new training assessment for stock colleagues and stock managers .....
What's this assessment?
Just updated online Click and Train material, not live till next week but I'd imagine it just refreshed current operations
Gone further up the food chain outlining the impact this ridiculous situation is having on people in this role. Two week window while they investigate my complaints.
Well done you, are you able to say who and have you had any initial reply?
As far as is possible in the company. it's been handed to a manager to investigate. I've stated I do not expect to hear the same reply as my grievance. The window is closing that they set.
Hopefully you get some answers,
Other managers are telling me, after a conversation with the SM, that I 'keep refusing job offers' and he is unable to advertise jobs until I move out of my role! How's that for dignity and respect at work!
It would seem that you are hoping to be made redundant. Your job role is now soft structure and you have turned down stock/admin as not being suitable. In the recent changes to metro stores managers were job matched or paid off, no choice. If they were offered jobs and refused them they were not paid off.
A great deal of a managers role is a duty. Then add in the dept/legal training. The holiday booking, exceptions etc. Then the dept knowledge.
You can't be forced to move into a role that does not suit you but look at it from a colleagues perspective. How was it for your colleagues during the last restructure, were people forced into hours they did not normally do, did they have to change tasks and even Depts. As a business things do change and we can't ask colleagues to do what we won't do ourselves. What about the potential changes to PI, CSD and checkouts?
It does not matter where we work within the business, changes can and will happen. Some will work and some won't. Some will mean bigger adjustments, new skills, a bigger workload. A large part of hard all that will be is the team you have working for you. If you refuse to change but expect others to adjust and adapt you are not building a strong team. Adding the admin and wages to the job I accept is huge. It's a big part of the role but it is still as near as you can get to a stock control managers job in the new structure.
The company seem to be going more soft structure at the moment. How long this goes on for is pure guess unless you are very high up and in head office. How long the company will pay you for a diminishing role is unknown. How long you can reasonably be expected to sit within soft structure is unknown but I know of a manager in a local store who has done so for years. If the outcome you require is redundancy then you do need to turn down other roles but it's a gamble, they can say alternative roles have been offered and refused. They could go higher and request vacancies filled as offered and turned down. You could be putting yourself into constructive dismissal but who knows if they will go that far. The only thing for certain is that they will not turn round and say to you that they will create a job just for you as you don't like the roles that have been offered.
Redshoes, I appreciate your thoughts and what you say is largely accurate, however I would totally disagree with your tone about the colleagues perspective. I had a highly effective and loyal team, I helped and supported them at all times, be it work or personal matters, we had a two way, mutual respect for each other. If I needed help, they would help. I did not heed to be on their backs as they were highly trained and had the empowerment to do what was right, as well as the fact I would back them all the way! In terms of the recent change, I actually told all my team as soon as I heard what was going on, it gave them the foresight to know before the formal meetings took place; they were very great full for my honesty and communication, as well as my support throughout the process!
I'm not refusing to change, I'm refusing to take another job! Legally, any alternative must be 'suitable' to the individual, and all roles, from my point of view, bar my current, is unsuitable; for my family life, my health and my mental wellbeing! I have multiple reasons to decline each role, I am in the right in doing so!
I'm not asking for a role to be created, I've worked in Tesco long enough, especially nowadays, to know that won't happen. They have a firm plan, year on year, to improve the business and improve efficiencies. This time around it's a soft structure on stock control and there appears to be no definitive solution to those that are not willing or able to take another role!
To add to this, a recent court ruling found that the addition of extra responsibilities to an existing managers role which they were putting through as a "soft structure" change was found to be null and void as the extra responsibilities materially changed the nature of the role, add to this the bungling of the consultation process and the woman won tens of thousands of pounds in a constructive dismissal claim.
As for reasonable job alternatives offered, it's reasonable to decline if location, work hours and work schedule is changed in a way that puts you in an unfavourable position or if the role offered is unsuitable due to documented disability or health issues.
Thanks NightandDay, I can safely say, given what I have experienced over the last couple of years with Tesco, I'm in a pretty good place in relation to my rights and how employment law works.
You are absolutely correct in your points, any role must be suitable, and what is suitable for one, is not suitable for another. It's this point that I feel Tesco are letting themselves down on. When it suits them, they want us to be assertive and stand up for our rights but when it's the other way, the silence in deafening, no support, no communication, expecting us to drop everything in a minute and agree to anything they want just to suit their needs!
That may be been the case ten years ago, but not now!
They put a six month time line on this. It's about to expire. Let's see what happens .
Constructive dismissal is nonsense talk , especially with the number of people in this position.
Mildew...
https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/tesco-worker-unfair-dismissal-role-changes/ (https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/tesco-worker-unfair-dismissal-role-changes/)
Mildew, how many in this position on your group?
Om12nv are you affected?
At a guess probably a third so about eight
Night and day, that shows how badly they handle this process, then get it wrong.
That's good to read, Tesco have completely refused to answer my questions, especially about what's the process after 6 months. I Need all the information to make a decision which is right for me, they shouldn't be holding it back. To be treated like this is a disgrace. Until I have my answers from them, my response is always going to be the same. I don't know as tesco is being fair and transparent with me.
*Isn't
Mildew, which is exactly why constructive dismissal/unfair dismissal isn't completely out of question. At the end of the day, none of Tescos managers or managers doing the role of a consultant are proper managers/consultants, that's not through any fault of their own, that's Tescos fault for promoting within and only hiring managers with retail experience externally.
Proper managers comply with the process, have knowledge of employment law and shows empathy. Consultants (proper consultants not recruitment consultants) usually have a degree and are experts in a specific business area and are paid commensurately more than how much Tesco are paying their ill equipped managers to do this job.
The whole process of their own making is informal, without rep, note takers or evidence of conversations and meetings. They wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
DJL Yes I am
So Mildew, your area must have a few larger stores to have a third left in this position. I've been told I'm the only one they haven't been able to move yet, but I'm not for moving!
Need to stick to our guns and keep integrity of our convictions!
Just a guess DJL . 27 stores on our group , a lot of extras and large superstores. My store has no vacancies at all and is miles from other stores . I'm not in a position to move.
The soft structure is based on the fact that the role still exists within the wider business...anyone aware of FF Stock managers who are not subject to the soft structure?
Any store with more than fifteen staff in the dept
They have stated that the role is to be removed from store manager structure and used the 'soft' approach to try and get people to take a new role with little push back.
I agree that the ones who want to stay can, they can be offered positions which suits their own personal circumstances, but for the rest, that option is clearly unavailable therefore an alternative must be offered, rather than the continual 'review'
Heatmap gives me max 12, currently have 9
Agreed Me2015
With the soft structure approach I'm no expert but I know definitely there's 4 part time services managers on our group where the job has gone, all still sat there with just the desk and cash office, 2 of the stores have no checkout manager it keeks getting rotated when placements yet the service managers refuse to take it, seems currently and for the past few years they have the upper hand, what I'm saying is those food stock just stick your ground as it appears nothing can be forced. Unless they bring in redundancy...
Thanks Trolley. All valid stuff , probably the only difference is they were pretty clear about a six month timeline on this role removal.
I'm no expert on these, I've been effected every year since the restructured started, this year being my first so far uneffected, I'm a stock admin so I understand the issues and to be honest if I had been asked about the role properly back when it launched would of took redundancy it's a thankless role depending on other managers and teams it's a very frustrating role.
Sorry to hear that. Hindsight eh?
Anyone knows how to downsize an image in order to post it on here?
Sorry no Wirey.
So after 6 months the individual cases are to be referred to LPP based on the flow chart which I have been trying to upload...anyone referred there yet?
I have no idea what flow chart you are referring to Wirey ?
It details the annual review process.
Never used this, so no warranty by me.
https://resizeimage.net/ (https://resizeimage.net/)
When did this surface Wirey?
It was always about...didn't you say previously that you had some marked up documentation?...I would've thought that's included with it?
No Wirey. Never had access to that. So individuals get referred to who?
After 6 months of no movement then cases gets referred to LPP. That's all it says.
People partner I presume?
Lead People Partner. So is any one aware of any shops out there that actually still have their food stock manager as part of their structure?
Me, Mildew too! There are still others out there, most have taken the decision to go to a new role, which is totally understandable, but there are still managers in the role
I don't know any specifically but it will be the very largest extras with fifteen or more staff in the dept.
Assume theres still loads out there. Even Nfsc managers.
I think the majority will have moved into vacancies. I'm not sure there will be loads
Sorry, misread your post!
There are NO food stock managers being kept, the role is being removed and all Accountabilities moved to the Stock And Admin Manager
That is not what was in my grievance response DJL. It says food stock control with over fifteen staff remain.
But the company's logic is that the role is remaining within the wider business hence why it is an informal change rather then a formal one!! Annual review informal process kicks in when a particular store no longer qualifies for a role.
If we are informal then that's because our own stores do not qualify for a FFSM...so by definition that should mean that there are some out there that do qualify...who and where??
I am asking this as I personally believe this is a company wide change and what what they told us is a BS.....there are some big extras on the group who lost the role!!
Yes mildew that's correct. But do those teams of 15 exist anywhere out there?? Or did they set that bar so high knowing they won't have a ff team of 15 out in the wider business?
I also find it strange that they based it on number of people rather than hours!!🤷🏽???
Further up in this thread I posted the response I received from USDAW regarding the removal of the role. They said that because some stores were keeping the role of food stock manager the changes could be classed as soft structure and all be dealt with informally. They weren't able to give an answer to how many stores were keeping the role. If it does turn out that no stores are actually keeping the role it does throw out their excuse for trying to treat this as soft structure change.
Is every store removing the Food Stock Control Team Manager role as part of the annual review process?
Response
No. Where we currently have more than 15 colleagues in Stock, Space, Range, Display and Price in non night operating stores, a second (Food) manager is generated. We have decided to reduce the number of Stock (Food) Manager roles across Tesco and progress toward one manager role who will manage all Stock and Admin in our large stores.
Ok so in the extra shops they have more than 15...comfortably and yet they have been downsized still!! Something isn't making sense here.
It's deliberately vague
" Managers would normally be offered redundancy as part of the annual review process as the role is not being removed from Tesco"
Should say "would not normally ". My bad.
So the other question now is there a stock and admin manager out there who was made to take on a team of more than 15 as a result of this change!!
Indeed. Would be interesting to know. If not, that means the role has been removed by the company.
15 in total so gives 2 stock managers?
It says in non-night operating stores
I think what it means it that PI are thrown in the count in non-night stores as they tend to fall under stock and admin.
Which means in night stores you don't count them as they fall under the night team!
It all smells a bit ...
In my store we have; food = 14, non food = 3, wages = 1, PI = 2, we should have more colleagues too so over the prescribed as you mention?
We are nights store
So you should have a FFSM....is that you? Has the role been removed from there?
No, they are a nights store. They would if they were a non nights store I think.
Haha it's vague...I'm reading it as more than 15 between stock+SRD+PI in non-nights!!
And in nights store it's more than 15 between stock+SRD.
PI is only included in the number if they operate under the stock department which they do in non nights.
I'm in that role right now, but as stated prior, the job has been removed. 6 months up at end of Feb
Likewise Me
In my store we have 11 FSC, 3 NFSC, 2 PI, 2 Wages and 2 Merch. 24hr large Extra. Should we have 2 managers still then? We only have one now. FSC manager told they needed to find a new role as it would be becoming one role. Know its a similar situation in another 24hr large extra nearby.
Forgot the Merch team, (sorry) add 3 on!
The job is going, regardless of what they may have said
That was never really in doubt Me, it's how they have handled it so far and what they do next that's the issue. They should not have mentioned a formal process if they don't deliver on it.
Hi, any supposedly , "stock and admin managers" out there, who are opposed to the combination of all into one role in large extra stores.
Feels like a big challenge, and seems to being slipped in without any consultation or discussion with people.
Would like to know others feeling and experiences so far.
When they have combined front end departments in the past and given a colleague amount for separate managers, they always worked it out at say for arguments sake over 15 equivalent full time colleagues.
So if the heat map says you need over 450 hours then you will get the extra manager.
At the time they worked full time as anything over 30 hours.
In a store I worked in previously they combined CSD, PFS, Cash office and trollies With checkouts!
as there wasn't enough hours on heatmap for CSD, PFS, C/O and trollies to make the requirements for the required fulltime positions then no services manager!
You can imagine how happy the Checkout manager was with this soft structure!
This type of soft structure has been happening for over a decade, it isn't going to go away and while I'm not saying just let it go, just don't be surprised if further down the line the outcome doesn't go your way.
I've seen managers refuse to accept other positions in stores, whether it be their current one or one closer to their home address and have their contract terminated.
Remember whether you like it or not Team manager roles are basically the same for the most part regardless of which department you manage.
All that being said, surely there is a case of terms and conditions being changed.
My contract currently sits as stock manager, and have no intension of signing a new one, to take on a bigger role.
Your comments are valid, but surely it is a breach of Tc's.
I have over twenty years service. No vacancies in my store, I don't drive and have actually had assurances I won't have to travel as it would impact me financially. Good luck sacking me. It won't happen.
Just to add this isn't soft structure, I've been put at pains to know that. It is Annual Review where a six month time window was stated with the likelihood of a formal process coming into play.
Hi Mildred, similar stance, but a significant number of years service, and adamant not adopting new additional role. Good luck. Keep posting
Sorry mildrew, bad spelling. Apologies
Mildred at weekends 😂
It's great to see stock managers still out there who have refused to move role. I understand the reasons behind this reorganisation and fully agree with the need to reduce headcount which in turn saves £££. Over the years, stock control has been so heavily centralised with newer, simpler ways of working for stores, makes total sense, as there needs to be a cost saving with each new project rolled out.
The issue I have is, the 6 month 'wait and see' game they seem to be playing! I am unable to plan for anything right now, my life, and that if my family has been put on hold, and for that I'm resentful. This company have messed about with me, and my family, for too long. The stated 6 month timeframe must be adhered to, so we can get on with our lives, further delays or non committal will be viewed very negatively, my mindset has changed, my mental health and well-being is being ripped apart by this uncertainty!
I'm fully hoping there is a 'transparent' way forward for this
Indeed Me. I think our treatment is scandalous considering they preach about mental well-being. Hence why I went ahead with a grievance and also contacted Dave Lewis's account handlers to express my deep concerns and their need to treat us fairly at the end of the six months. Life has indeed been put on hold .
They don't care. To management, we're not people - just numbers waiting to be culled from the payroll. Grievance this, grievance that - it doesn't matter to them. This company will do anything to save payroll - leave shelves, checkouts & shop floor empty, but still expect the work to magically get done. Whether you're on the shop floor or in management, work like a donkey or take the p**s, we're all expendable. Tesco want everything done on a shoestring, and its only going to get worse.
Is there a legal definition of "Soft Structure Change" It sounds like a Tesco Mickey Mouse Management buzzword to me. They define it so that because the role still exists in the wider business it's a soft structure change even though the removal of the role at an instore level is the black and white definition of redundancy.
This "Soft Structure Change" malarky sounds like an attempt at hoodwinking their staff out of redundancy by getting them to buy into this psuedo-legal management mumbo jumbo.
If they got rid of the ca role, bit it still exists in the wider business, they would legally be entitled to redundancy, otherwise they can keep the person in the position somewhere in the business and just "soft structure change" everyone out without a payout.
https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/defining-redundancy/ (https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/defining-redundancy/)
If other aspects if necessary work are added to the existing responsibilities of a FSC then it's to be classed as a different role it's extremely difficult for an employer to remove a role without it coming under as a redundancy situation.
Absolutely. They are keeping this as grey and vague as possible and dressing it up, saying it's for our benefit this is happening. A total crock and they know it.
What kind of reply did you get back when you sent email to Dave Lewis office?
They can make changes NightandDay, but as we all would think, in a normal situation, an offer to accept new role is offered or redundancy, not this namby pamby Soft Structure BS!
It was so badly written it looks like a six year old wrote it. I'll be taking it further so can't really expand.
Good luck with it then. I will be following suit in 2 weeks. The countdown has began for us, there needs to be an appropriate resolution to this!
Totally. Why be passive?
They can make changes, but legally speaking they have to be insignificant changes, there's very little wiggle room, merging roles into one won't be seen as an insignificant change from a legal perspective. It would be classed as a material change. You can look up "Soft Structure Change redundancy" on google in the context of redundancy, you'd see Tesco is the only one using the fabricated term. I'd be so bold as to suggest that if someone went to Leigh Days or some other employment solicitors about this, there'd be a very strong case against Tesco not offering redundancy for what is clearly a redundancy situation.
Strangely they no longer call it soft structure. They've rebadged it under Annual Review .
Most likely to another nonsense fabricated term to make it appear that they're acting under the remit of the law, as long as you don't let yourself be fooled or coerced out of your role without redundancy or at most the legal definition of "reasonable" alternative then they'll give you what you're legally obliged to sooner or later.
That's my stance Night.
It's always been called Annual Review
Soft Structure is just another name used by some SDs
Strange how they went out of the way to differentiate between the two with me.
All very boring now. This six months can’t end soon enough.
Thanks m360....any thoughts around what we discussed above regarding the apparent criteria of team larger than 15 would generate a second stock managers yet that doesn’t seem to be the case....are there any food stock managers left untouched as a result of this informal change?
The company’s logics behind the change seems to rely on these two factors!
The 15 won’t be based on physical people employed. I believe it’s budgeted headcount and one head equals something like 25 hours. So if you have 25 hours x 15 = 375 hours budgeted across all the stock control departments, you will get or keep a second manager.
Annual Review and Soft Structure are the same process.
The management structure for each store is reviewed once per year, hence Annual Review.
Soft structure refers to the fact that any changes in roles are resolved informally rather than through use of redundancy.
My reply said dependent on sales and colleague headcount.
Thank you m360...I suppose my next question is based on how the annual review proposed change is resolved once it hits the 6 months mark?
As much as the explanation gives some insight into the ‘behind the scenes’ thought process, it can’t give us any further answers to our main question, and that is what is the next step after 6 months!
The fact remains, that we, am I right to include you Wirey2020, you had the same conversation, that the Stock Manager job no longer exists in our store, so any working out of the headcount is irrelevant as a conversation had taken place to explain our role is being removed from the store.
Obviously there is still 2 weeks to go, and I can’t believe there has not been any chat in the centre with what to do with the remaining Food Managers
I would be extremely surprised if redundancy is offered, especially with the move away from using redundancy in the Q1 changes this year.
Could be wrong, someone somewhere will have worked out the number of people that haven’t moved and the cost of resolving it.
Far more likely is store managers being put under extra pressure to get it fixed using the vacancies that are available locally.
The mention of formal process in the first meeting leads me to think the remaining managers will go into consultation. This cannot go on indefinitely.
And was started well outside the q1 plans so may be the last of the redundancies.
I can understand that reasoning m360, however there are still areas, such as mine, that no vacancies exist and 'putting pressure' on the store manager who will do the same to the stock manager may lead to unreasonable behaviour especially if the conversations that have been had are sound in relation to say, not moving to another store due to transport issues or not taking a role in a store where the hours worked currently are far different to what is expected in the 'new' store....then where will that leave Tesco??
I'm not defending that approach, it's just what I think will happen.
Could be wrong though.
Me2015, I'm trying to ascertain whether there is any other stock managers left who are not affected in the wider business as like I said it's what the logic behind the change being an informal one. But yes, not long now, the cynic in me though doesn't think they'll come out with a resolution bang on the end of the 6 months!!
Hopefully I'm wrong too!!
That is fair enough m360.
Wirey2020, I've asked this question at the start, and given the answer I can be certain that NO Food Stock Managers will remain. Following on from WK12 simplification and ongoing reduction of accountabilities for us, the role is no longer required in stores, as the Stock and Admin Manager now has the similar spans of control similar to the Grocery and Non Food Replenishment Managers.
I'm hopeful for a transparent conversation at the end of the 6 month period, as promised at my meeting. I've already started the process of getting a resolution by making requests to my store manager about the impending timeframe. I will make further representations to the relevant executives in WGC come the end of Feb
Me, what you have been told about no food managers remaining completely flies in the face of my grievance response. They need to get their story straight.
I recall you saying something similar a little while back.
They are obviously not going to disclose the information on demand, however can I ask if you were told that was the case?
I've asked the question too, I've done some research into this also, I know lots of people who know people around the country, none have come back to say the role is being kept. There are some very large extra stores who at first glance would seem to warrant 2 managers but the 'informal' discussions are being had with every manager
All should be asked, no matter how big the store. Managers don't always live local, many travel as they have to go to where there are jobs. It opens up options for all if all are consulted. It could be that somebody is happy to move roles in a store that retains this role but that gives the option for another person who wants to retain this role to move into that role. It could be that this opens up a role in a store closer to home, for one or two. Granted it won't be many but if these questions are not asked it closes the door to one solution, even if does not apply to many.
In my store only two managers live local, all the rest travel in from about 15-20 miles. All that travel have stores nearer to home.
Me2015, if you scroll back a bit I directly quote what I have in black and white which says the role is not being removed from every store.
I have reviewed this thread and understand you put a grievance in about the situation. In terms of the hearing, who completed this; was it internal or out with your store?
They have obviously given you feedback based on your questions however how has this feedback been validated?
What I'm saying is, given we are in the same position, and very likely have followed the same avenues to challenge, the responses seem to be different hence my questions about the feedback given to you!
I'm in no doubt this situation is a clear money saving exercise. They have spent an absolute fortune on redundancy payments, from the little amounts from GA's to the astronomical amounts given to Store Managers and above.
Given previous leaks, I'd say this process is one which keeps the resources rather than throw away and allows those who want to stay, to do so in another role. I can say, and I may be wrong, but the job is going in every store.
The next couple of weeks will be interesting to see how they progress, either drag their heels a bit like the current government and Brexit, or a well thought out plan is ready to go!
It was heard by a people partner from another group and I believe the information in the response came largely from Colleague Relations Team.
That's interesting then, were they coy about making such bold statements or matter of fact, as my experience was very nonchalant, clearly trying to make me feel like I was in the wrong for not accepting a move?!
Getting the same treatment Me...got another meeting soon regarding moving 🙄
By sounds of it you are well versed in saying 'no' so good luck and stick to your guns!
Me, it was very much a statement of this is the policy and a categoric statement that the job role is not being removed by the company, just at stores which fall outside the parameters.
Remember you're not in the wrong if the move is unreasonable, a redundancy situation is where your job role is removed for you (just because it exists for some in the wider business doesn't change the fact it's still a job removal and therefore still a factor in a redundancy situation) and any job moves offered must be reasonable, this is where they'll try to coerce you into thinking what they're offering is reasonable and any refusal will mean you're out of a job without a payout, remember Tesco conforms to the law, not the other way round.
Night, also from my grievance...â€Managers would not normally be offered redundancy as part of the annual review process as the role is not being removed from Tesco."
Also. ....’A manager is eligible for redundancy in a situation where their role no longer exists within our structure or where the majority of work their role performs is no longer being done. It is the role that is made redundant, not an individual. ‘
Standard response from the office that!
Yep, directly off their crib sheet!
Hey mildew, any chance you could change your settings to accept a private message?
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Seemed to happen when the new posting in Russian was posted by Joshuajoymn and the new one on depression, by Richard Fen offering with a link to "visit us" be wary people ???
So this is the week we should find out, that’s 6 months passed!
Has anyone had any meaningful conversations about the role in their stores?
Absolutely nothing DJL which is par for the course since this despicable process began. I’m not holding my breath either.
So let’s have this right, bakery jobs aren’t being totally removed from the company but they still get the chance of redundancy at a local level?! Where is the level playing field for us?
Let’s see if they have the decency to break their silence after six months of putting us through this c**p.
Cases are referred to the employment relations person (unsure who it is) it then goes from there...I don’t think it’s related but apparently week 3 will herald the arrival of the next informal structure change!!🙄
When did you find that out Wirey? I’ve never heard of that role.
Quote from: Wirey2020 on 01-03-20, 10:53AM
Cases are referred to the employment relations person (unsure who it is) it then goes from there...I don’t think it’s related but apparently week 3 will herald the arrival of the next informal structure change!!🙄
yes I heard that too,new heatmaps from week 3,which must be put right 100%,managers have had training for moving peoples hours around the business,if a department falls below a set amount of hours or headcount,then a manager for that specific role will no longer exist and someone else will inherit that dept as well for no extra ££
It was thrown my way during the many informal meetings. I believe it was referred to as CRP - Colleagues relations personnel?
They’re the berks who provide the responses to the grievances.
Their silence, or evasiveness, in response to your numerous communications and grievances Mildew, would suggest to me they are trawling through every legal loophole. I believe the phrase "soft structure" to be unique to Tesco, and realise it's not going to kid those that are more savvy There are a few of you that have indicated on this site, that you're not "soft in the head!" Good luck to you all.
I recently had an ongoing complaint with a company, who ignored my emails...I found out the email address of the CEO and sent him an email "IGNORING ME IS NOT AN OPTION...I WILL NOT GO AWAY!!" Everything resolved within two weeks. Maybe you should send big Dave one in a similar vein ???
Appreciated lucgeo. If there is nothing substantial revealed this week, I will be upping my communication to them in slightly different terms than has so far been the case.
To add to this I would seek legal contingencies, Tesco are in breach of their own consultation deadlines, they have this process in the first place to conform to the governments laid out redundancy process. If they sufficiently scuff up the process they could be liable to be sued for unfair dismissal, I'm not a legal expert but I would think it critical to seek external legal guidance from the CAB, ACAS or an employment law solicitor.
I’m not sure they can be held to any as the process is entirely informal. A completely cynical ploy to avoid legal contest.
What is Tescos basis for defining this as informal? Are we also to take it that there is such a thing as informal redundancy scenarios and that they have less legal remits than a "formal redundancy situation", To schedule consultations would suggest this to be in fact a formal process, the informal labelling sounds like Tesco Value snake oil. This is why I suggested external legal guidance (not through USDAW).
The snake oil part I totally agree with. My employment solicitor doesn’t seem to think up to this point they haven’t done anything illegal, but their practices are highly suspect .
Is your employment solicitor a USDAW provided one or an independent, USDAW can't be trusted to provide unbiased advice due to the partnership agreement (i.e, they're in Tescos back pocket.)
My own. I wouldn’t touch USDAW with a barge pole.
Quote from: kaled78 on 01-03-20, 11:29AM
Quote from: Wirey2020 on 01-03-20, 10:53AM
Cases are referred to the employment relations person (unsure who it is) it then goes from there...I don’t think it’s related but apparently week 3 will herald the arrival of the next informal structure change!!🙄
yes I heard that too,new heatmaps from week 3,which must be put right 100%,managers have had training for moving peoples hours around the business,if a department falls below a set amount of hours or headcount,then a manager for that specific role will no longer exist and someone else will inherit that dept as well for no extra ££
I have heard that too. During soft structure change if a decision can't be made locally it is escalated up the line. Everything is looked at. Have reasonable alternatives been offerered etc then decision made about redundancy on a case by case basis. Nobody really knows what will happen. If procedure not followed, if no reasonable alternatives, if reasonable but turned down etc. It's all case by case, but heat map is due so that may move things along one way or another.
Had my first 1 to 1 to discuss available alternative positions (after store visit from the people partner). Nothing suitable.
Having these meetings every 2 weeks
No idea of the purpose of this and not told where this will lead
Told I may be in breach of contract if I do not accept a position in another store.
Certainly not helping my stress and anxiety .......
What part of your contract are you in breach off? Did they say this to you
An offer of alternative employment, legally, must be provided to prevent job losses, however the legal ‘test’ is the ‘suitability’ of that alternative; does it broadly match your current working pattern, pay and status in the store, will your personal circumstances such as health and family be impacted by such a change, if there is any major differences, it’s not suitable, to you!
This needs to be completed on a case by case basis, and not one fit for all, so I’d be challenging their ‘breach of contract’ BS statement
Any position needs to be suitable to you too, not just take it because it’s there. Don’t be bullied.
It's all in the job title. Line managers are line manager in the same way as customer assistants are customer assistants. A CA can be matched to another role in a different dept and so can a line manager. Then it's hours, availability. This is also the same as a ca will face. Same as health and anything else.
You may know more about stock control than you do about another dept but if you have learned stock control it may be reasonable to assume you can learn about another dept. You will still do schedules, you will still book holidays, you will still book overtime, sign exception, you will still be duty manager etc so it could be that enough of the role does not change.
If your new job role requires you to work different hours I was unaware of managers having set shifts. I thought they were all on a rota, even with children or outside of work commitments. Having a set day or days off is different. That will be dependant of if the store can occomodate this but if they have done so previously they can probably continue unless it has become an issue. If it is an issue this just needs to be discussed, in effect managed.
And when the cost of travel has significant impact on your life ? That certainly is not suitable.
Yes, agree about travel and impact that will have but a manager can not be different to a ca. They just can't say "no, I just don't want to move" and for them to end up in a much reduced role but to drift along on same pay. If offered alternatives that have been turned down in store or outside it has to be a case by case decision. To be fair and balanced I don't see what's wrong with this going outside of store.
I have seen comments from CA's about managers with two colleagues. In the past this has been allowed to happen. The company is now saying we can't afford it. We can't afford to pay anyone to do a job that has been removed, this stands for all levels. It's a matter of how it's handled and process.
And strangely in October I was categorically told I would NOT have to take any vacancy as the process is informal. This was duly recorded.
To bring any claim in Law will depends on individual circumstances as to what is reasonable or not....
- travelling a extra 10miles to work may be reasonable if you drive but not if you rely on patchy public transport or need to pick children up from childcare after your shift.
- most manager roles in store have some degree of common task, yet if ill health prevents you constantly replenishing it may be unreasonable for you to pick up a trading role.
At the end of the day to succeed in any claim you would have to show why multiple offers are all unsuitable whereas Tesco would try to show that as retail changes they have offered you multiple positions which you have chosen to refuse.
Kind of moot when you've been told you will not have to take a vacancy by your SM
Earlier contract bit not right.
Creating a paper trail for when the decision moves up the ladder - but no idea when this will be.
Indeed. I checked again.
Quote from: londoner83 on 03-03-20, 09:09AM
To bring any claim in Law will depends on individual circumstances as to what is reasonable or not....
- travelling a extra 10miles to work may be reasonable if you drive but not if you rely on patchy public transport or need to pick children up from childcare after your shift.
- most manager roles in store have some degree of common task, yet if ill health prevents you constantly replenishing it may be unreasonable for you to pick up a trading role.
At the end of the day to succeed in any claim you would have to show why multiple offers are all unsuitable whereas Tesco would try to show that as retail changes they have offered you multiple positions which you have chosen to refuse.
I'd say it's quite easy to prove that travelling an extra 10 miles is unreasonable when you factor in fuel and maintenance costs of vehicle and loss of time spent travelling.
An extra 10 miles there and back a day is 100 miles every work week.
A paper trail for an informal process. You couldn’t write it. Good luck all however you decide to approach it. I know what I’m doing .
They took notes during my “informals†I believe mine has been referred to the office!!
Anyone expressly informed to be out of the informal stage as yet?
There are absolutely no updates. Permanent state of limbo
Their silence speaks volumes!
Pretty sure now there will be no news and this carries on indefinitely
How is everyone coping?
Wonder how many of us are left in this pointless role?
Have they not been catching up with you?
I haven’t had any catch ups since the original brief in August.
Nothing to catch up over. No vacancies, so stuck in the zombie role. Beyond a joke now.
Definitely the forgotten role - obviously Corona has overtaken everything (except for bakery which had to happen)
Had my EOY review last week - senior expressed sympathy at my position; told just to continue doing what I am doing (obviously a bit key in the big osi push)
So that's it then - carry on waiting ....... and being continually frustrated ............
Haha it sounds like you have a better manager than what I have....a complete clown with strings attached to his limbs!!!
Redundant processes, Redundant colleagues, redundant central team, redundant job? No, let’s keep the manager there to.......Answers on a postcard please!
Mmmmmmm.................Ah ha, got it - who's going to do the rota's and organise staff breaks then? Well worth the £2000 a month I'd say.
Bakery did not need to happen it has been the biggest c**k up ever relays not completed , told a pack of lies about cutting range ,plu numbers that where not communicated,dot com asking for orders only half an hour after the baker starts .i could tell you more but the list is endless.
They lie about everything,pity is the irreparable damage it’s done......not the company alot of us joined.We’ve lost all our bakery staff so much for redeploying them sat in their meetings absolutely disgusting treatment same as last year with counters and stock control.The company is run by s*** now.As for the shopping experience it feels very eastern bloc the heart has gone.Miserable staff what an achievement.
Everything is now back to normal!
Had meeting with my senior to go through all the vacancies locally and for me to explain why each of them was not acceptable to me
Next meeting in two weeks.
Anyone else had this ?
Quote from: King1999 on 05-05-20, 10:03PM
They lie about everything,pity is the irreparable damage it’s done......not the company alot of us joined.We’ve lost all our bakery staff so much for redeploying them sat in their meetings absolutely disgusting treatment same as last year with counters and stock control.The company is run by s*** now.As for the shopping experience it feels very eastern bloc the heart has gone.Miserable staff what an achievement.
They're also not as competitive with regards to compensation anymore, before Lewis took over they offered leading wages, now Sainsburys is the leader. As c**p as it is for those facing the chopping block there's still the option for better pay in a similar role with one of Tescos main competitors.
Quote from: beentheredoneit on 10-06-20, 02:19PM
Everything is now back to normal!
Had meeting with my senior to go through all the vacancies locally and for me to explain why each of them was not acceptable to me
Next meeting in two weeks.
Anyone else had this ?
Been going through it for a while now!!! This will probably end up in the courts!!
Quote from: beentheredoneit on 10-06-20, 02:19PM
Everything is now back to normal!
Had meeting with my senior to go through all the vacancies locally and for me to explain why each of them was not acceptable to me
Next meeting in two weeks.
Anyone else had this ?
What is happening in two weeks at the next meeting then?
Or is that just an expectation of the next timeline?
My understanding is that when it gets to this level the info is sent off and the decision is made at head office level. It is head office that decide if reasonable offers have been made or if it can go to redundancy. This can't be decided in store or even at local level. It is only the info gathering that is done in store/local. Who knows what will come back, who knows if two weeks is enough time. Meeting might give a decision or it might just be to say info being looked at but no reply yet. It might not be at that level yet though so it could just be that they want more info or to let you know they have all the facts they need so will now be sent off.
I have made it clear on several occasions that I am not prepared to take another position, my arguement being that by removing the position, they caused a redundancy situation , there being several presidents for this.
So presumably they will either accept this or sack me (see you in court).
They are also trying to get me through syp; bring it on.
Wow!!! Sounds exactly the same as my situation....nothing for years but for green reviews then boom, got hit with a miss 😏 yes court seems likely...I have yet to encounter a genuine food stock control manager in the wider business with the exception of those being moved on so the role has gone.
Very unlikely to risk sacking you.
As far as I'm aware there is no mention of sacking, if some feel this is coming it is at store level, not at company level, in my view.
My understanding is that if all measures have been taken to try and find an alternative job role have been taken and nothing can be found the company then decide if that position in that store can continue or be made redundant. If the structure change means that that manager has few colleagues and smaller responsibility it will be down to how that looks in the individual store.
The legal definition of redundancy is thst the job is made obsolete and therefore the person in the role is made redundant. At a more granular level the job role is defined by a number of prescribed tasks, If due to the structure change some of these prescribed tasks have devolved to another role or several roles, then as long as Tesco agrees not to change either the salary or job title and salary (lowering the salary of the role), they don't have to put it down as a redundancy situation.
However practically speaking they will to reflect the lesser responsibilities and accountabilities the role now has, if they're lowering the salary or changing the title as well as lowering the salary then it is a redundancy situation. The redeployment to another similar role has to be reasonable to both parties (i.e being told to move to a different location further away, being told to take a pay cut in another role, working significantly different shift patterns, working less hours or being redeployed to an unsuitable role (a ca being moved to being CEO for example.)
I’ve been through the grievance process and played email tennis ad infinitum. What appears to be the case now is you carrry on in this non role until the day leave, then it just doesn’t become a vacancy.
Either the structure change is still going to take place and the FSM role made defunct (in which case the redeployment to other similar roles must follow the reasonability test or redundancy has to be paid) or you work every day as an FSM in title until you resign, die or retire which would logically mean they would have changed their mind about some aspects of the structure change (It would be Tescos poor levels of corporate governance that this scenario wouldn't be communicated.)
Tactics generally used by Tesco would be to either bully you out of the company, disproportionately discipline on things like attendance or other underhand tactics, all of which if properly dealt with can get you more money via your good friends ACAS and the employment tribinal while still remaining in your job role.
My thought now, should the next meeting be as stressful as the last, is just read a prepared statement that I do not wish to apply for any other positions and see where that goes.
I am thankful for the replies on here - in store it seems like one against the system.
Reassuring that they look after your mental health .......
Quote from: NightAndDay on 13-06-20, 01:41PM
Either the structure change is still going to take place and the FSM role made defunct (in which case the redeployment to other similar roles must follow the reasonability test or redundancy has to be paid) or you work every day as an FSM in title until you resign, die or retire which would logically mean they would have changed their mind about some aspects of the structure change (It would be Tescos poor levels of corporate governance that this scenario wouldn't be communicated.)
Tactics generally used by Tesco would be to either bully you out of the company, disproportionately discipline on things like attendance or other underhand tactics, all of which if properly dealt with can get you more money via your good friends ACAS and the employment tribinal while still remaining in your job role.
Second paragraph is so true....I can give so many examples if indirectly trying to push me out trying to dress it up as everything but the reality of what it is...bullying and harassment...everyday I feel it, add to that the level of effort they put in to try and undermine me at every turn in relation to simple every days tasks....in simple words...make my life unbearable in order to break my resolve and agree to what they are trying to force upon me!!
Shows it must differ from store to store. I feel pretty comfortable that I would just continue this scaled down role indefinitely. If at any point they choose to call it a day and make me redundant, all good.
I'm still in the same situation, not sure what's happening or been told anything? Currently I'm in another store doing a 12 week secondment which is now like 16 weeks as it has been extended. Nothing signed or anything. Now I'm still wondering what is happening. Is anyone upto speed with things that can help me as had no meetings or anything for about 5 months.
At the same time as this others are going through the annual structure change. It's not the same in all stores but some managers are being asked to take on a much bigger role as a vacant role is now deemed as not being vacant and the tasks have been distributed to others. There are also managers in a role where the annual structure change are being asked if they would take on another role, a different vacancy in store or even another store.
A manager in an affected role does not have to move. This is not a soft structure change or a redundancy matter, it's an annual review. I suspect that this will be the way forward. It's very much like right hours right place from the heat map. The update to the heat map are now quarterly and not annually. So colleague hours are reviewed quarterly and managers annually. In time I expect all roles will be reviewed quarterly. The quarterly review should mean smaller tweaks.
I now feel like I am in the way of the Store Managers progress plan. Without doubt the People Partners and Store Managers have been asked to push the issue again. If they are feeling bullied to do it, then I am sorry, however they should be clear with the people asking them to ask us to move, that essentially it is a waste of time.
I do not know of any Food Stock Manager who have moved since saying NO originally.
I have been treated differently since saying no to a move. I am sure this will vary from store to store, but please remember the Store Manager is not your friend, he or she will do what they are asked to do, because that is their job.
Does anyone have any idea of what the new structure looks like. Obviously different in every store but would be good to have an idea.
Moneybags23.
I only know speculation, like a lot of people.
Like a good few others I am reluctant to post specific information, as it could cause worry for no reason, and I simple do not know.
Quote from: Moneybags23 on 14-06-20, 11:40AM
Does anyone have any idea of what the new structure looks like. Obviously different in every store but would be good to have an idea.
Streamlining of lead structure and bakery...store by store basis of course.
Wirey2020.
Have you heard anthing about small superstores reducing managers headcount?
Those taking around or below £500k a week.
Doesn’t sound very pleasant for some. I made clear I’m not moving and have been left to it and treated the same. I’m very much under the impression I carry on doing the food stock manager role indefinitely now.
If you know nothing about the annual structure change you are not involved. That's all anyone knows. They have said that it's an annual review so if not heard anything you don't need to worry for the next year, unless they find a way round this.
Quote from: stockstaffreduction on 14-06-20, 02:26PM
Wirey2020.
Have you heard anthing about small superstores reducing managers headcount?
Those taking around or below £500k a week.
As far as I am aware the current round will only include the above mentioned changes.
Our shop has just been told that they have to lose a night manager, Still doing structure changes when hundreds of ffsc managers are still non the wiser what's happening. :'(
Add bakery managers to the list too!
Quote from: Mildew on 14-06-20, 04:56PM
Doesn’t sound very pleasant for some. I made clear I’m not moving and have been left to it and treated the same. I’m very much under the impression I carry on doing the food stock manager role indefinitely now.
Well done for being strong and standing firm but be aware that your job role has been seen as one that can be combined with another. You have turned down alternatives as you don't think it's a reasonable move. If the company agrees they may give you redundancy but on the other hand if the company agrees that they were reasonable they may feel that they have done all they can. There are now other manager roles not being replaced so you are now competing against additional managers for the few jobs that do come up. Who knows where it will end but this COVID-19 is costing a fortune and they are looking into lots of things that will save money.
[admin]"on the other hand if the company
agrees" = unilaterally decides.[/admin]
I can’t travel and there are no vacancies in store for over a year and very unlikely in the future. They can make me redundant or just keep going.
Saving money after Covid is one thing...we'll all pay for it in the future with higher taxes, recession etc...however the legalities regarding redundancy will remain, regardless of Tesco's belief they are above the law!!
Quote from: Mildew on 14-06-20, 04:56PM
Doesn’t sound very pleasant for some. I made clear I’m not moving and have been left to it and treated the same. I’m very much under the impression I carry on doing the food stock manager role indefinitely now.
I am confident now that Tesco are working a solution for managers who will not move or who are reluctant to move. I would estimate there are 70-100 Food Stock Managers left in their roles, most will have worked for Tesco for a long long time.
If Tesco spend £100K on legal advice and finding a loop-hole that would still be a big saving on paying redundancy. When you look at what ASDA did last year to force a change and manage to succeed, then Tesco will following suit with colleagues and managers at some stage no doubt.
I will admit that I do not fully know the Asda situation and it may not be a clear cut as I think it is. What I do know though is there are no, or virtually no signs of employment tribunals being won by Asda staff.
If the Covid situation results in mass redundancies in the UK, then I think Tesco will use this as chance to force through minor employment changes as
no one will have any sympathy for us, as all we will hear is " atleast you have a job darling".
Why would you think there is that many?? In my particular group there is only one!!
Wirey2020.
That is just a pure estimate. I am on a group made up of very large stores, so working on that basis across the whole estate.
I also think surely if there were just 20 of us left in the company, Tesco would consider redundancy?
I could be wrong?
There will not be redundancy
I suspect there are more.
Obviously someone has decided that redundancy for managers is not the way forward.
With the latest 'review' , in my area there is a situation that there are 9 seniors with one vacancy. And several more team managers recently misplaced with only a couple of vacancies.
They are not yet 'stuck' managers (as I am, having had no role for 16 months), but clearly unless roles magically appear they will soon be. This means the recent review will not happen for several months if not years ,unless people leave.
So all in all, rather a mess, and definitely not want the head doctor would recommend.
Indeed. There will be less and less vacancies also as many won’t leave their positions within the company with the impending recession/depression about to take hold. It’s a company mess of it’s own creation leaving a few of us in this role to do half of someone else’s job for full pay. You couldn’t script their stupidity.
Company still signing people off as senior/teams managers and putting people on placements when people like us are stuck with nowhere to go. Unreal.
This is not new. They have always done this but in theory they have a choice of managers to select from. There is however a points system and displaced managers get top pickings. The stock control role is not displaced at this stage, not sure that there are any displaced roles at the moment. There are structure changes but not displaced. This means multiple people applying for very few jobs. It gives a store manager some choice over who gets the jobs and leaves others in limbo. It also means that newly signed off managers could get the jobs but I suspect that the word will be to cut costs so to take from a vulnerable role.
Quote from: stockstaffreduction on 20-06-20, 09:55AM
Quote from: Mildew on 14-06-20, 04:56PM
Doesn’t sound very pleasant for some. I made clear I’m not moving and have been left to it and treated the same. I’m very much under the impression I carry on doing the food stock manager role indefinitely now.
I am confident now that Tesco are working a solution for managers who will not move or who are reluctant to move. I would estimate there are 70-100 Food Stock Managers left in their roles, most will have worked for Tesco for a long long time.
If Tesco spend £100K on legal advice and finding a loop-hole that would still be a big saving on paying redundancy. When you look at what ASDA did last year to force a change and manage to succeed, then Tesco will following suit with colleagues and managers at some stage no doubt.
I will admit that I do not fully know the Asda situation and it may not be a clear cut as I think it is. What I do know though is there are no, or virtually no signs of employment tribunals being won by Asda staff.
If the Covid situation results in mass redundancies in the UK, then I think Tesco will use this as chance to force through minor employment changes as
no one will have any sympathy for us, as all we will hear is " atleast you have a job darling".
While the FSMs are still in the role, they are still under contract, and must therefore still be paid, finding legal loopholes isn't a one off transaction, it can take lot of time, all of which will have costs incurred for their FSMs that are still waiting to hear what's happening (and they'll still be paid their contracted rate while doing so) as well as the costs involved for their legal teams time to discover loopholes.
The "soft structure change" and "informal process" are all the legal teams inventions to try and bypass the cost outlay of redundancy, sometimes it's more about psychology and snake oil than discovering loopholes, because sometimes, there aren't any. In which case, being transparant and expediant with the redundancy process is the most cost effective way of dealing with it.
Hi just a quick one. How is it right that we have someone on a temporary contact they have told him he’s now on options and walking around telling people what to do bare in mind (never worked in retail) I have been here 10 years now I find it a bit out of order as there are people here that would like to progress but now been put on hold.
I didn’t think you could be put on options as a temporary member off staff
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In short, partially due to poor corporate governance (in respect to renumeration package for the shift leader and team manager roles as well as the lack of measurable criteria for the selection process and inappropriate assessment and decisions on who gets promoted) partially a culture to try and get as much as they can for as little as possible, partially the consequence of not offering competitive rates for their shift leader and team manager roles compared to competitors and managers taking advantage of the naive using phrases such as "it'll be good for yoyr development" (the only good thing to get out of being stepped up is putting key holder and supervisory experience on your cv).
All quiet here. The whole thing is dying a death. We are just doing half the new role for full pay :D
They are working on it...especially with the bakery manager being in the same position now...queue is building!!
is the bakery manager/counters combining in all stores.and any one know when counters will reopen?
What's happening with Bakery managers in Extra stores please?
Quote from: Toady on 05-07-20, 06:23PM
is the bakery manager/counters combining in all stores.and any one know when counters will reopen?
I have been told this week that there is a new role of Food Production Manager that will cover Bakery and Counters..... the two managers will be made into one with selection from Store Manager...... but only when another Manager from the store leaves so that the dis-places Manager can move into that, so no time limit.
What about in a superstore when there is:
- 1 bakery manager
- 1 dairy / counters (all of them open) manager
- 1 produce manager ?
Think it would make sense to combine bakery/counters and then dairy/produce but haven’t heard anything.
You will find if you have a dairy/ counters manager in your store then they are already contracted as a fresh manager so not affected by the change.
Well as the new stock admin manager has now started, after a great many years, i am no longer a stock manager. (although contract still states that)
Supporting grocery until either I leave, die or they make a decision.
Not great mental health wise.
Still trying to be optimistic.
According to the union you are to remain in the role until a decision to the contrary!
You should have been asked if you would like to take the role. If you didn't say yes then Tesco is free to fill that vacancy. You are still in the same store in a management role so technically nothing has changed. You are at risk now of having no role at all, moving to another management role is a reasonable request. As the moving people around the business policy tells you, decline a reasonable alternative position you are declining a contract. It is not a redundancy situation so good luck when you leave 🙈
Not of the entire process and logic behind the “removal†of role is dishonest.
Quote from: beentheredoneit on 10-07-20, 11:26AM
Well as the new stock admin manager has now started, after a great many years, i am no longer a stock manager. (although contract still states that)
Supporting grocery until either I leave, die or they make a decision.
Not great mental health wise.
Still trying to be optimistic.
Sorry I’m lost?! Supporting grocery is not a vacancy. I don’t understand the position you are in?
Suprise, suprise they are just using you.......like all of us.
Quote from: Ay up me duck on 10-07-20, 09:19PM
You should have been asked if you would like to take the role. If you didn't say yes then Tesco is free to fill that vacancy. You are still in the same store in a management role so technically nothing has changed. You are at risk now of having no role at all, moving to another management role is a reasonable request. As the moving people around the business policy tells you, decline a reasonable alternative position you are declining a contract. It is not a redundancy situation so good luck when you leave 🙈
That’s not correct! Just because you are a manager doesn’t mean you must any any managerial role just because it’s being offered! Yes the role of food stock manager is no longer part of the structure but that’s the company’s decision not the individual who has chosen to stay. There are a vast array of reasons for a role to be unreasonable; child care, personal circumstances, health, the list goes on!
Don’t let them bully you into a move you don’t want to do, they can’t force you to make a move you without bullying and intimidation then that leads to a claim at an ET
Quite Me2015! That’s why I don't understand beentheres situation at all?
Using the moving people around the business those things would be taken into consideration. However 80% of a managers role is the same across all line managers job descriptions so moving into another manager role is reasonable. No different than a colleague on BWS moving to grocery or produce.
I have moved away from the role to enable the new stock admin manager to do the whole job.
I have declined all other offered positions. So I currently am a manager of nothing. My sm asked if I could support our placement twilight manager as the other vacancy will not be filled (we should have 2 twilight grocery managers - I have already turned down the role) until i leave or someone else is appointed.
Agreed, a very strange arrangement and certainly not sustainable arrangement.
As this is a soft change, I cannot be forced to take another role under any 80/20% rule.
So it is obviously a stalemate.They will continue to pay me my (near top of scale) salary for doing a job of sorts with no responsibilities or accountabilities (other than as duty manager).
Hopefully someone with power will intervene and get this sorted asap. It may sound an ideal position but is causing alot of personal stress and anxiety.
Utterly bizarre, I am not and will not be budging.
I have been informed today that in week 23 they will be reviewing the heat map for colleagues and moving hours round the business. As a stock manager I will ve asked if I will take stock and admin role through reasonable alternative role. If not I am then making myself out of a role and my Ushaw rep has said this is correct. Has anyone else had a meeting
Sounds very odd to me. The heatmap normally drives the colleagues working hours and is separate from the Management Structure Changes ( in most cases ).
I would advise you to ask for these meetings to be documented and that you have a solid rep present. Your Manager and People Partner would not object to this if they were 100% confident that what they are asking you to do is as per company policy.
Maybe youre the first stock manager to be pushed using this process, so I am interested to see the outcome.
Could it be that on the last heat map the dept was over hours but the store decided that they would run with those hours as the heat map is a guide anyway. In that time othe areas have had people leave or they have temps that they are not going to keep or lots of other things that have an impact on hours. Educated guess would be that no Depts are getting extra hours so an area that was over last time might need to get closer to where they need to be this time.
Now been told by PP that all info for stuck food stock managers has been passed to the decision makers.
They have been told since that there will be no action at this time - reading between the lines, the company have got themselves into a rather large hole by saying the change is not a redundancy situation.
So now starting the legal challenge .......
Who is starting a legal challenge?
I've heard from my old store that my old FSM manager has been told that they have to move roles as the company has still offered a managerial position (whikst I was still there they were beginning the transition from FSM to Stock & Admin but that stopped when they questioned the workload) and if they refuse they're basically resigning. This is basically the same thing they told myself and others back in April 2019 when we were offered new roles across stock control that if we refused we'd be putting ourselves out of a job. Clearly the company don't care as they can get away with it :(
It's not different to moving colleagues. You can tell colleagues that there are now no longer the hours within stock control but there are jobs on checkouts. The colleague has the choice to take or not as all part of moving hours round the business.
a managers job is Duty Manager and line manager, the duty part has no change. As a line manager you still do the holiday, book the overtime etc. It's just additional knowledge with taking on new responsibilities. It may be a bigger role but some things have been slimed down too. It may be greater responsibilities but less hands on doing a CA part of the job yourself.
We have two excellent signed off but not appointed managers waiting for jobs. They are on hold, living in limbo waiting to see if jobs will become available to them but they can't be appointed until the soft structure managers are sorted. You are in limbo too, I get that but if they decide to appoint those willing to take on the jobs where will this leave you. I don't mean to be harsh but this is not the time to make a stand. Loads of companies are closing, redundancies and unemployment is on the rise. We are still in business but COVID has cost a fortune. We are heading towards lean times so jobs that have had tasks removed and reassigned will not be in limbo for long.
It's not a one scenario fits all situation though. In our shop and area the opposite is happening. We now have more displaced managers in limbo with this fsm role and now the counters managers imminently and absolutely no vacancies. If you're in an area being offered vacancies fine, but we are stacking up managers they have displaced and vacancies will become less and less as many now cling to their jobs as the Covid situation is killing the jobs market and less people will chance leaving the company.
Never heard anything like it in days gone by people would be made redundant tight fisted company.
thank you red shoes. That is exactly what I was told. Having a mortgage to pay i am not in a position to not move to stock and admin role. Tesco has taken legal advice on this and I certainly not want to be without a job in the current climate. What part of no redundancy do people just not understand???
"What part of no redundancy do people just not understand???"
There are those who would welcome redundancy, and are entitled to seek/argue for it if they believe the job situation warrants it, or would you deny them that right.
Quote from: Ay up me duck on 25-07-20, 07:05PM
thank you red shoes. That is exactly what I was told. Having a mortgage to pay i am not in a position to not move to stock and admin role. Tesco has taken legal advice on this and I certainly not want to be without a job in the current climate. What part of no redundancy do people just not understand???
Lots of us have Mortgages to pay, however I have made it clear it to Tesco that they can start the formal process against me to move to another role or the Stock and Admin role.
As of today, no formal meetings or invites to formal meetings.
Being called upto the store manager's office and told you have to move or else seems to be the approach by some.
Those of you who are now being told they have move or else, I would welcome your experiences around this.
I am not being threatened in anyway at all and can’t fault things at a store level. I will simply continue to do half a full job role for full pay in a situation of their own making.
You stock managers who won’t move what is the problem all you have to do is what is required and that is to manage staff and with your experience of stock control you should be able to help support your store and stop whinging ,also think about those who do not have a full time job you should be grateful.
How about can’t move? I’m sure you have all the answers, as the company certainly don’t after nearly a year? Perhaps they should hire you to solve this impasse.
Quote from: Ay up me duck on 25-07-20, 07:05PM
thank you red shoes. That is exactly what I was told. Having a mortgage to pay i am not in a position to not move to stock and admin role. Tesco has taken legal advice on this and I certainly not want to be without a job in the current climate. What part of no redundancy do people just not understand???
If it was so clear cut and a done deal, then why wasn't it all sorted in the beginning? Why are managers still being allowed to stay in their positions, with no managerial responsibilities, retaining their full pay? Ask any SM telling managers to move or lose their jobs, if that is a personal threat, or are they speaking on behalf of Tesco? Either way, can you have it in writing?
" no redundancy" was told to stock control, counters and bakery. Instructed to fill in availability forms, drop hours, change shifts or risk losing their jobs! Deliberately lied to, by senior team and the SM. Guess what, those that didn't succumb to their threats, got redundancy. Now it seems the counters are not going to re-open, so all those who dropped hours to accommodate, were shafted.
Tesco are renowned for moving the goal posts, operating in grey areas, just look how they manipulated the figures to get big Dave his Golden handshake. That wasn't illegal, but not adhering to redundancy legislation is!
I am guessing that since no posts for a few month either;
1/ everyone who wants to move, has
2/ anyone not moving has carried on with stock manager - with regular meetings
3/ anyone left is doing something else - with regular meetings.
Does anyone have any updates?
It sounds like it’s done deal with the stock managers. I know in my store they are waiting to hear back from there meeting. I suspect they will move to the senior managers next.
No changes here either, waiting game, hold the nerve!!!
Still in the job....the silence says it all about their apparent logic to remove the role...circumvention of standard practice and they know it.
Is soft structure still the same i? Stay in The role till you leave or suitable alternative found ? Thanks
Oh what a tangled web they tried to weave....would seem they are trying the same now in "no redundancies" as restructuring and everyone is supposedly now a store colleague not on a specific department...so why change people's hours and departments? They just cover the shortfall on their contracted shifts and hours...why have dept codes? Why when one dept short, the whole store isn't brought into the RHRP and everyone's hours tweaked?? It's either dept or store hours that are over...can't have both, pick and choose their stance when it suits!
Still in the role and expect to carry on in it.
I think you stay in the role until told otherwise, which is okay to a point. At some point they either need to move the manager to another role or at least redundancy. In my store they have moved to a different store , but I suspect in time that role maybe removed. Like you say they will probably move onto senior team next as it would cost them a fortune to make them redundant. Maybe starting in smaller stores first. The way I see see it is they will carry on reducing the management structure to be more like Aldi etc. Who knows, it is disappointing that there is no decision either way.
There is a risk of employment ending with no redundancy. It's a very small one but it is a risk. If other jobs have come up and have been turned down and a manager clings on to a job that no longer exists they can say they have done all they can and reasonable jobs have been offered and turned down. In the end it will probably go to redundancy but if they have a very tight case that is documented all along than alternative jobs were offered and turned down they can just say they have done all they can and end employment.
Not wanting to take on a bigger role, not wanting to move roles s not on the cards for managers or colleagues. I think COVID has delayed things but all formats will go the same route as express and metro, it's only a matter of when. I don't have inside information, I don't have dates. I only have long term working experience to say that when things role out by trial and then gradually across the formats that it will continue. It might be amended but it will continue.
It’s less than a small risk in my shop. I cannot travel as other shops are so far away which has been agreed and we now have three displaced managers in the same situation. There hasn’t been a vacancy instore for over two years and with people clinging to jobs and more displaced managers there won’t be any. Deadlocked.
Having seen a lot of documents, the most at risk managers are Bakery and Services Managers. All done through soft restructure, as soon as a manager in your store leaves then one of the above two will have to move in to a new role to make theirs redundant. Simples.
A company can say 'reasonable' jobs have been offered but that is not necessarily the opinion of the person(s) that have been offered the jobs.
It's a sad fact that in modern society we all need to fight for our rights no matter how big or insignificant those rights may at first appear to be, give companies an inch and be in no doubt they will take a mile (or two).
I have been offered/suggested/asked/informed other roles are available, which so far I have declined.
I use the above words as im unclear as to the intentions of Tesco in terms of formal action.
However at no point has a suggestion been made that if I continue to decline these offers that I could find myself in a difficult situation.
If anyone has been told any different then I would be interested to know.
It is, of course, still a 'soft' change.
Their argument that they have offered alternative jobs and been declined is one method for them to be 'legal - I have sought outside legal advise, and this is a major reason it is not a redundancy situation. 'Immoral', but not 'illegal'. b*****ds.
Treat people how they want to be treated they are breaking a core value.Quote this to them,it seems to be a regular quote in our store.Dignity at work another one and mention empathy training on e learning it all a joke.
What's the problem, all managers are apparently trained to the same standard, in our store they swap roles roughly every two years and gain experience on different departments, is that a bad thing?
Sure, there are problems with accomodating the right hours for different needs and situations but is that any different than what is required of a G.A, they are told, this is the business plan, these are the hours we need filled, can you accomodate that?
I am afraid Management think on an exeptionalist level that they are somehow inexpendable yet the g.a Must, "Suck it up".
The sooner some realise that they are just employees, the same as the rest then things will bode better for them in the future!
You are not, Mr/Mrs Tesco, you are no better or worse than any other employee, you are a number, that is all.
It used to be that you did not even get onto options if you were not willing to travel. In my area this is very much the case. The distance part can vary. It can take an hour to travel 5 miles or 30 depending on where you live. In my area, managers have to commit to be willing to travel an hour. The costs are what they are but can't be claimed once appointed. With so few jobs coming up there will be loads chasing a single job. There is a lot to be said for not working in your nearest store. The whole work life balance thing is much better, the journey to and from work is chill time too. i strongly recommend it. I work with two part-time job share young mothers who both travel, they not only do this but pass other stores to get to ours. Out of the whole management team only two live close. There is varied experience between the team, some of the managers have worked together in the past, in different stores. The people you work with matter more than the job you do. We work to pay the bills but sometimes you need to think outside the box and take a chance.
My experience is staff are far from expendable after recent cuts as for managers,what exactly some are paid for god knows.Winding up staff and bullying maybe.
There is a slight difference to some who argue that managers be treated he same way as a GA, and in the main I agree that there should be little difference with training, ability to get on ect however the contracts are different and therefore there must be a difference in how these are interpreted.
As my time as a manager, I’ve never, ever treated my team with the contempt that others share on here, I value them as much as they value me. We worked as a team and the trust and honesty was always clear. The firm has screwed over managers as much as they have screwed GA’s.
Legally, a role must be ‘suitable’ for it to be deemed reasonable. Although some say a manager can do any manager role, we are human also. I have kids, I have health issues, and as much as I’d work with my team to do the right thing, I’d expect the firm to do the same by me. There is never going to be able push to get you out of this role, they know by doing so it will give rise to a ET claim.
Stick to your guns, be clear why you can’t do the ‘offered’ roles and don’t take any threats lying down!
I would say the reason that it has gone quiet on the management movement front is more to do with covid19 rather than they have changed there mind, at the moment the covid situation is a little unknown going forward and maybe they are being a little cautious.
Quote from: darklighter on 14-09-20, 12:49AM
What's the problem, all managers are apparently trained to the same standard, in our store they swap roles roughly every two years and gain experience on different departments, is that a bad thing?
Sure, there are problems with accomodating the right hours for different needs and situations but is that any different than what is required of a G.A, they are told, this is the business plan, these are the hours we need filled, can you accomodate that?
I am afraid Management think on an exeptionalist level that they are somehow inexpendable yet the g.a Must, "Suck it up".
The sooner some realise that they are just employees, the same as the rest then things will bode better for them in the future!
You are not, Mr/Mrs Tesco, you are no better or worse than any other employee, you are a number, that is all.
I might be getting the context of your statement wrong, but I certaintly as a long serving manager do not expect any special treatment. C/A's, Team Leaders, nights, Tech Team and other Management roles have all been been lost in the past, and in most cases those who did not want to stay had the redundancy option. However the Food Stock Managers have never had this option.
Tesco have said this will now be managed by "soft structure" but I for one still dont really know what this means in reality. To make the "reality" point clear, yes I have been told I can stay in my role, however my colleague in the same role 30 mins down the road is constantly being told different to me and is unsure what to do.
What will happen in the future is what we would like to know. I know some of you food stockies have been told you can stay in the role until you leave the business or there is a major structure change, but why are other food stockies being told they need to move or they face being dealt with and having no job.
This is probably about inconsistency in the store managers communication, as I know in my store the stock manager moved to another store down the road. But this not always the case, as with a soft structure change the idea is to move managers to a suitable role and not as a redundancy. The reason it’s not redundant is because the role still exists in stores. I do not believe it is right to keep people holding on until a role becomes available. Ultimately it will be probably be more of the same with more soft structure changes as will probably be with other manager and lead team roles.
Dooby27.
I hear what your saying about the role still being alive in stores, however others such as nights, team leaders and bakery have had the redundancy option, and these roles still exsist?
Completely agree, I think this is the issue as for a large company you would expect the same process to be followed. It seems they are treating every store different, and therefore different roles remain in some stores, some given redundancy and some not. The structure in my store as an extra is still very top heavy. Counters and bakery are together, produce on its own for now. But there is still lead team in place with less managers. I think my role is safe for now , but who knows what next year brings, as structures are reviewed yearly. I suspect a reduction of more manager and more trials of less overall managers.
The reason for the ambiguity around the process of soft structure change is because it's a made up process by Tesco they can't stipulate the structure of it because of the legally sensitive nature of redundancy situations, unfortunately the legal team give too much credit to the amount of common sense managers have and not enough to floor staffs legal knowledge, i.e cajoling, bullying or lying to colleagues to take an unfavourable job (which I've read is the case with some managers) isn't the intended course of action and if the effected colleague does it right they can leave Tesco in a legally unfavourable position (due to the ineptness and arrogance of the managers decision making), the sole purpose of the soft structure change process is to delay and reduce the odds of them having to pay out redundancy by keeping colleagues in limbo until a vacancy comes along.
That’s it in a nutshell Night and Day. And who would be willing to add two hours onto their working day in travel when it’s five minutes currently. Loony toons.
Quote from: stockstaffreduction on 13-09-20, 06:56PM
I have been offered/suggested/asked/informed other roles are available, which so far I have declined.
I use the above words as im unclear as to the intentions of Tesco in terms of formal action.
However at no point has a suggestion been made that if I continue to decline these offers that I could find myself in a difficult situation.
If anyone has been told any different then I would be interested to know.
My role was in the annual review in July.
I have been told that if I don’t take any of the roles available now, come March when it’s the end of my annual review if there’s a manager role there and I don’t want to accept it then I would get constructive dismissal and re-employed into that role.... scare Tactics
You should be grateful they are offering you a job in the current market they could bully you into taking it do you think you are special or something being a manager is what it says you manage nothing else .
“They could bully youâ€. Well bullies don’t like being pushed back and so far they really haven’t. Glad I went through the grievance process and cemented my position.
Quote from: Mildew on 15-09-20, 01:06PM
That’s it in a nutshell Night and Day. And who would be willing to add two hours onto their working day in travel when it’s five minutes currently. Loony toons.
That's all very well and good but do they have a job for you.
Quote from: Hammer10 on 16-09-20, 07:02AM
You should be grateful they are offering you a job in the current market they could bully you into taking it do you think you are special or something being a manager is what it says you manage nothing else .
Job market is irrespective of the legal stipulations of reasonability, nobody is more special than the law except the queen.
Quote from: Hammer10 on 16-09-20, 07:02AM
You should be grateful they are offering you a job in the current market they could bully you into taking it do you think you are special or something being a manager is what it says you manage nothing else .
What is it you have against Stock Managers not taking a role? In all the post you have added on this thread, you have been negative and not seeing the bigger picture of each role.
Are you a manager? It sounds like you are not given what you are saying!
A role needs to be a ‘suitable alternative’ that is what the law says. This talk of a manager can do any manager role is BS. For those of us who have been in the role for a very long time, me, more than 15 years, to be told to go and do, say a nights or checkout manager role, nah, I’m not going to lay down and accept a role I don’t want to do, and that is the difference, in a GA contract it states ‘any reasonable request’ and this cannot be easily applied to a manager in the same context.
Please back these people in this role, if they wanted to move, they would have. If as you say they are lucky to be offered a role, then great if that’s what is right for them, but don’t just assume everyone wants the same as you!
I am a manager ,it is managers who don’t look at the bigger picture for the good of the store that annoy me I have managed bakery,nights,produce,dairy,stock control,grocery,at the end of the day all you are doing is making sure your team are doing what is needed to be done and that is serve the customer and take lots of money.I have been with the company nearly 41 years and worked my way up I am not a graduate just given a job because I have qualifications I did it the hard way and learnt a lot from different store managers which I put to good use each and every day.
Right, so are you annoyed at moving out of stock control?
The company have made a mess of this. Fair play to you for lasting so long and still being a company man, despite the huge difference in benefits you now enjoy. That is your choice to carry on doing the role you are doing, why should your opinion be what everyone else thinks, and not be allowed to be treated differently?
I’ve been in the company 27 years, like you worked my way up, but the last 5/6 years have ripped the heart out of me and the way I think. I’d say the other managers in similar position, who are now waiting it out, feel the same.
Most are the same as you, not given the job due to qualifications, who even spoke about that? I can only assume you are a tad bitter with the new recruits coming through and being young, high fliers with loads of qualifications and no experience?
Don’t begrudge your fellow managers to do what is right for them, and not for the company!!
You don't need a degree to be a manager, at the same time however, Tescos promotion practices are too subjective to be proud of "working your way up". There are countless numbers of people held back at Tesco who moved to a higher positioned job at a competitor.
Completely agree, however with less team managers and probably less senior team at some point. How can be opportunities to get on with less management in the structure. I suspect every year it will be about taking more managers out of the store and having a structure similar to Aldi. What this means I think is if there are further changes there are less positions around to go into. Surely the company can see they will need to offer redundancy at that point.
Quote from: Hammer10 on 16-09-20, 09:57AM
I am a manager ,it is managers who don’t look at the bigger picture for the good of the store that annoy me I have managed bakery,nights,produce,dairy,stock control,grocery,at the end of the day all you are doing is making sure your team are doing what is needed to be done and that is serve the customer and take lots of money.I have been with the company nearly 41 years and worked my way up I am not a graduate just given a job because I have qualifications I did it the hard way and learnt a lot from different store managers which I put to good use each and every day.
just to give you my perspective. As I have said before I do not think I am special and I do not want special treatment. I really wish Managers would understand that they are disposable, and I am a manager. I am not far behind your 41 years service. ( Sir Ian Was in Charge when I Joined) You maybe a high performing manager, however this is what the business requires, it is not a favour you are doing Tesco.
Some of the food stock managers including myself just want clarity, like I have said before, different managers are being told different things, so please do not hate me for wanting to stay in my role and continue to do my role just because Tesco have said the role does not exist.
I totally disagree with the rubbish about the jobs market and finding another job because of the current circumstances. There are jobs in my area, and I know this is more about where you are in the UK, as some regions do not have jobs.
As a previous post has mentioned, they are being told if they do not move by March, then they will get dismissed, so why I am not being told this?
Like other food stock managers, I accept my fate whether it is forced into another role or they decide to dismiss me, and I do not fear being dismissed, I can make that clear now.
Tesco are a business and in your store and community you may feel important, however once you leave Tesco you will realise that Tesco is not as much as focal point of what is happening in the world as you think.
If you disagree with mine or other choices, then that is your opinion. Next year perhaps when 50% of the Team Manager population in some formats are being asked to be Shift Leaders or similar ( my thoughts not fact) then there could be a lot managers asking themselves very similar questions about their future with Tesco.
A lot of people gain perspective after they leave Tesco, they see that in the grand scheme of things, Tesco is like Antarctica, a once collossal land mass gradually shrinking due to an ever changing environment. They are just one of many massive companies, and all things told one of the worst in the world for how they treat their staff and their social responsibilities. The worst thing that could ever happen at Tesco is that they successfully delude you into thinking there's only jobseekers allowance outside of Tesco.
Quote from: BBA on 16-09-20, 12:54AM
Quote from: stockstaffreduction on 13-09-20, 06:56PM
I have been offered/suggested/asked/informed other roles are available, which so far I have declined.
I use the above words as im unclear as to the intentions of Tesco in terms of formal action.
However at no point has a suggestion been made that if I continue to decline these offers that I could find myself in a difficult situation.
If anyone has been told any different then I would be interested to know.
My role was in the annual review in July.
I have been told that if I don’t take any of the roles available now, come March when it’s the end of my annual review if there’s a manager role there and I don’t want to accept it then I would get constructive dismissal and re-employed into that role.... scare Tactics
If you have been told what you wrote, you have been lied to. I suggest you either take it up with their boss, or take out a grievance. This is so wrong.
I am finding that the positions previously offered me are being taken by other displaced managers, so getting more complex
Does the role of Stock Manager exist anywhere???
Perhaps they are just waiting for us old ones to die off (Sir Leslie Porter was Chairman when I joined, by the way)
No stock manager been on here to say their position is safe....the company’s apparent logic to justify this move is if you have more than 15 member of staff then the change doesn’t apply and yet there are no stock managers left on my group which includes all the extras.
Some things are very clear. The role has been deemed no longer needed, at some point it will end. At that time you will either be in another role or you will have to go. I am just trying to say that if you want to go you can't guarantee a lump sum.
As a manager, no matter the background you have the ability to learn a new role. You either did that by going up the ranks or by coming in with a degree. The route into the job does not matter but you got the job by showing you had the ability.
Moving into a new role is something that happens. For managers and colleagues. There is a huge amount of knowledge and experience from stock control that you can take to any other job in the store. If you want to stay with the company the reality is that the company are not going to continue to pay you in this role forever.
The services managers are moving. There are going to be more role that will be not far behind. Sticking to your guns may win you the battle but at the end of the day it is the war that you need to win. You may win and get the big payout but unless that is enough to get you through until you retire it is not a great time to be out if work.
I don't intend to sound harsh or unsympathetic but I'm unclear on what you are holding out for as in if you are wanting to stay with the company or leave with a lump sum. The stay as is will not be a long term option. I would not want to be in your position as I have been in that position twice now so I know what it feels like. I did at least have clear end dates when it happened to me. On one hand you have more time but on the other you will still have to move or go. Others that are going to be displaced are stepping into roles that you have turned down. Could even be people from other stores. You don't have nice options but at some point you will need to go one way or another.
Quote from: Redshoes on 17-09-20, 05:41AM
Some things are very clear. The role has been deemed no longer needed, at some point it will end. At that time you will either be in another role or you will have to go. I am just trying to say that if you want to go you can't guarantee a lump sum.
As a manager, no matter the background you have the ability to learn a new role. You either did that by going up the ranks or by coming in with a degree. The route into the job does not matter but you got the job by showing you had the ability.
Moving into a new role is something that happens. For managers and colleagues. There is a huge amount of knowledge and experience from stock control that you can take to any other job in the store. If you want to stay with the company the reality is that the company are not going to continue to pay you in this role forever.
The services managers are moving. There are going to be more role that will be not far behind. Sticking to your guns may win you the battle but at the end of the day it is the war that you need to win. You may win and get the big payout but unless that is enough to get you through until you retire it is not a great time to be out if work.
“Suitable alternativeâ€
If it is so straightforward why has it dragged on for so long? If some stores are stating 15 or more people, the position remains, and others being told, take what you're offered or go down the dismissal route, as the role is no longer? If it was so clear cut, those managers would have been forced down that route from the start.
I feel, Tesco have dug themselves into a big hole here...they hoped to " persuade" all affected managers into new positions, stating no redundancy, yet stating the role is redundant, with exception of certain stores.
Also the fact that there is surplus displaced managers already, all vying for the same vacancies, would indicate that Tesco have limited alternative positions, suitable or otherwise, which will result in no positions available, with ultimate redundancies.
The stock control manager is one of the highest regarded in terms of knowledge, and until recently, was on a higher band rate. Those with years of experience under their belt, are highly sought after by other retailers, and the private sector, such as the NHS, who are always keen to recruit for their own stock management teams, offering 8-5 mon - fri.
If the job role you had no longer exists your employer has two options, make you a realistic offer of a mutually acceptable suitable alternative role or failing that you are made redundant.
Suitable encompasses many aspects including but not limited to:
Number of hours of work (20,30,40 etc).
Actual work hours (early,late,night).
Days worked (weekdays,weekends, Sunday).
remuneration package for hours worked.
Distance/time to work.
Availability/accessibility of transport to/from work.
Cost of transport (personal or public transport).
Personal time commitments (children,relatives,spouses,caring responsibilities etc).
Loss of skill in your chosen trade/profession.
Any one or combination of the above may make the new role unsuitable for your circumstances Consider your reasons/options carefully as the list of variables is considerable.
People have won constructive dismissal claims after being removed from their role and then left in limbo (dangling).
Quote from: King1999 on 14-09-20, 08:15AM
My experience is staff are far from expendable after recent cuts as for managers,what exactly some are paid for god knows.Winding up staff and bullying maybe.
Overpaid shelf fillers.. :thumbup: :thumbup:
Quote from: Redshoes on 17-09-20, 05:41AM
Some things are very clear. The role has been deemed no longer needed, at some point it will end. At that time you will either be in another role or you will have to go. I am just trying to say that if you want to go you can't guarantee a lump sum.
As a manager, no matter the background you have the ability to learn a new role. You either did that by going up the ranks or by coming in with a degree. The route into the job does not matter but you got the job by showing you had the ability.
Moving into a new role is something that happens. For managers and colleagues. There is a huge amount of knowledge and experience from stock control that you can take to any other job in the store. If you want to stay with the company the reality is that the company are not going to continue to pay you in this role forever.
The services managers are moving. There are going to be more role that will be not far behind. Sticking to your guns may win you the battle but at the end of the day it is the war that you need to win. You may win and get the big payout but unless that is enough to get you through until you retire it is not a great time to be out if work.
"Sticking to your guns may win you the battle but at the end of the day it is the war that you need to win. You may win and get the big payout but unless that is enough to get you through until you retire it is not a great time to be out if work."
Let's look at the alternatives shall we.
1. Staying in limbo, everyone can see that something will be done with the people still in the role sooner or later, not a bad option if you're actively looking for another job, as Lucgeo said, plenty of cases where employees "left in limbo" have won redundancy lawsuits.
2. Leave and get a new job, fair enough outcome, but the employees would be depriving themselves of what they're legally owed, namely redundancy money.
3. Accept a new placement, from what has been said on this thread, the managers are either cajoling/bullying the colleagues made to be redendant into new roles which would offer worse conditions than their current role or in the worst cases forcing them to resign (probably the good old "chiller chat" technique or false claims of gross misconduct), of course the colleagues reaffirming their rights while at the same time being proactive in their job search is the best decision.
In short, getting redundancy is the best outcome and rightfully the only outcome the effected should take, and anyway, worst case on the job front is they wait 6 months and apply for a team manager role again, their redundancy in most cases will be more than enough to tide them over.
It’s 12 months for managers now
And if they wait the 12 months and come back the fresh stock control job role will still not be available.
We have several signed off but not appointed managers in our area along with a few in limbo. If the large stores go to the same structure change as the small stores there will be even more managers displaced. I don't have inside info but the word is that it's only because of Covid that the new structure has not been rolled out but it has delayed it rather than stopping it.
To complicate matters, the covid infection rate is now back to April levels in the UK of circa 4,000 new cases a day, the government is looking at imposing new restrictions next week, we may be heading for another lockdown, demand at Tesco will skyrocket, but after how they treated their mass of temp workers, I have a feeling that recruiting for these positions will be a bit harder the 2nd time around.
It wont, loads out of work will jump at the chance of at least a few weeks work and the hope of a possible full time job in Tesco, and the company know it.
A Few weeks work yes ( Especially in the run up to Christmas - Seasonal work ) , As for a Possible full time job in Tosco most unlikely these days as its nearly all part time / flexi slave labour .
Only managers get full time positions these days.
"And if they wait the 12 months and come back the fresh stock control job role will still not be available."
They won't really care then will they ??? They'll have had their payout, cleared a few debts, had a break, or whatever...then either found another job, or just took something for the twelve months to tick them over, then apply for "suitable" management roles of their choosing.
Quote from: just curious on 20-09-20, 10:52AM
A Few weeks work yes ( Especially in the run up to Christmas - Seasonal work ) , As for a Possible full time job in Tosco most unlikely these days as its nearly all part time / flexi slave labour .
True but when we had all the corona temps back in March the management at least in the store I worked at were telling them full time jobs could be on offer for those who did well, and yet none of them got a full time job, a couple got taken on permanent contracts but not full time hours.
Quote from: lucgeo on 20-09-20, 12:22PM
Only managers get full time positions these days.
They still advertise for full time Customer Assistant just less.
Quote from: Redshoes on 19-09-20, 07:07AM
And if they wait the 12 months and come back the fresh stock control job role will still not be available.
We have several signed off but not appointed managers in our area along with a few in limbo. If the large stores go to the same structure change as the small stores there will be even more managers displaced. I don't have inside info but the word is that it's only because of Covid that the new structure has not been rolled out but it has delayed it rather than stopping it.
Why would they even be bothered? The job in that store has now merged with the SA Manager, they have paid their debts and had a decent break, now prob looking for a PT job to get better work/life balance or wanting FT in another area!
The fact that they left should give an indication that the job they did is no loner there!
It is also illegal to make someone redundant and the position to exist for 6 months after they were made redundant.
I apologise if this has been mentioned on here before but for a role they deem to no longer 'exist' within the company how come some communications come down to said role :D?
We now have five managers in store who’s roles have been removed and zero vacancies. A shambles 😂
Hi everyone, not been on here for a while so sorry if this has been discussed in a lot of detail already! I lost my food stock manager role last year and have looked after different roles since but have never been appointed into a new role as no vacancies in store. Anyone in the same boat or heard anything lately?
Loads of us. Plus more and more roles, like I said 5 in our store with no roles. Farce.
Our 2 displaced seniors have found new roles - just leaves me (stock) and the services manager to go.
Neither of us are willing to take an alternative position, and just want to go, but not without some sort of recompense for our many years of loyal service.
Vague hope the new guy will sort this farce out.
ever hoping (or just clutching at straws ....)
Some communication will come down as there are people still in the job. If a role has been removed in store it will just go to remaining manager.
For example, a store that has a PFS, services and checkout manager will have the communication go to named managers. Where the roles have all been combined they will go to the new checkouts and services manager once roles are clicked on comms. A while back they removed two newsletters and combined them all into one. They was a cash office, CSD and checkout newsletter but it's all now just front end but it goes to the individual manager or combined, depending on store set up.
Interesting that JS are offering redundancy to their displaced colleagues, whereas T aren't.
Just saying ..........
By the power of the work and pay search facility within the directory there are still 81 stock team mangers in the company. Not sure if this all or just those on work and pay but nonetheless, it more than I expected. I wonder how many are on the list that are staying in the role, as throughout my consultations I was told that due the role staying in some stores, it is not a redundancy situation. Burying the head in the sand has worked for Tesco in my case as, I leave next week to go into another career.
[admin]Good luck in your future career.[/admin]
congrats :). nice move. i doubt you'll regret it :)
Is that opposed to Stock & Admin Manager??
That’s way more that I would have thought to be honest, I know there are a good few that are adamant about not taking another role however that number may suggest an admin error with coding rather than actual FS Managers still in situ
Quote from: cupraman on 03-12-20, 09:58AM
By the power of the work and pay search facility within the directory there are still 81 stock team mangers in the company. Not sure if this all or just those on work and pay but nonetheless, it more than I expected. I wonder how many are on the list that are staying in the role, as throughout my consultations I was told that due the role staying in some stores, it is not a redundancy situation. Burying the head in the sand has worked for Tesco in my case as, I leave next week to go into another career.
Good luck in your future career.
Good luck, and well done for moving on.
Perhaps when Tesco have the £10BN in the Bank from the Asia Operation sale, they will be able to pay redundancy?
81 doesn’t surprise me at all, in fact I thought there would be a few more with a bit of gumption.
I am on work and pay as stock manager, but am not doing that job - all staff have been transferred to stock / admin manager. Hurrah! no accountable staff
well i have now officially got no job. on paper still stock manager, but now only doing duty shifts - no other accountability or responsibility, but still mildly optimistic 'they' will do something soon. until then being paid £32k for doing not alot. getting rather boring now. surely someone can sort this - tried everyone at the top with no response ah well.
Is £32k the most a Team Manager can earn or can it go higher? In any case I'd milk it for as long as you can, if you're being paid that much to do not a lot, that's on the senior team, not you.
Be careful, by doing another job and if you do it long enough it could be looked at as assumption of new responsibilities on your part. As far as I’m aware the union stated that you are to remain in the role until an acceptable permanent alternative gets agreed.
good point, but the role i am doing does not exist in the real world.
i have it in writing my stock manager position.
Role packs exist containing the RACIs of Food Stock Managers, if the role ceases to exist, then the redundancy process and restructuring has to be carried out in order to formally relinquish the role, if as is happening here Tesco has got rid of the role but hasn't carried out the transitionary, consulting and redundancy process, the role legally still exists (as current employees have not been made redundant from the role) and therefore the assumption of new responsibilities can't be made while the job title is still held.
Quote from: beentheredoneit on 07-01-21, 08:14PM
well i have now officially got no job. on paper still stock manager, but now only doing duty shifts - no other accountability or responsibility, but still mildly optimistic 'they' will do something soon. until then being paid £32k for doing not alot. getting rather boring now. surely someone can sort this - tried everyone at the top with no response ah well.
I am interested how you have arrived at the situation of not having a role. Who's choice was this?
I am a food stock manager, still in the role, still being measured in the role, and still very much continuing as per normal ( if thats what we can call it).
My store manager has not hinted at any changes, and she still expects the same output as before the changed happened.
I am clear that any potential changes will be kept from me, so I understand its business as usual.
However to have a manager with no job sounds worrying to me, and I hope your decision has not been influenced by another party, who had told you this would be the best course of action to take, only for it to backfire on you.
But the role that used to be done by the stock manager is now the job of the stock admin manager. My manager and I agreed that it was only right this person should have full accountability, so I agreed to 'support' twilights. I am now not needed to do this, so am just doing duties. I am confident it will not backfire - only time will tell ....
This latest announcement means they want to call all managers “Team managers†with no specific department. Sounds like a sneaky way of trying to get round the redundancy situation.
they have no intention of making anyone redundant
Quote from: Srgd2170 on 01-03-21, 01:45PM
This latest announcement means they want to call all managers “Team managers†with no specific department. Sounds like a sneaky way of trying to get round the redundancy situation.
To be clear, today’s brief states that the ideal (store by store) management structure explicitly does not involve redundancy, nor will it be an option.
As others have observed, that ship has long since sailed.
There will never be redundancies officially for shop floor workers, even if it is a redundancy situation by law, the name of Tescos game is saving money, redundancies are an expensive aspect of businesses, if they can slither their way around not paying it with or without scruples, they will, you've all got to start looking past the soft structure change claims and observe meticulously, in this case, if it looks like a redundancy and smells like a redundancy, it's a redundancy.
Legally they can't just say oh we are making you redundant without first going through the process of consultation with numerous suitable alternative role offers to give the individual the chance of staying employed, that's the law they have to be seen to be protecting the individual not the role so this soft structure pish will get used as they move people into roles they either want as they are happy to move, or those who don't want as they have no desire to do a new role will continue as is. This stock manager role malarkey has been going on for some time now, from the WK12 routines change to the unofficial soft structure changes!
Hang on in there, don't give up and never give in!
Two years on, has the new structure change made anyone think differently.
my sm want me to accept new role and look after a small dept until i leave.
our team manager goes from 7 to 4 (small ss). as there are 8 tms ( 2 of us already stuck) it is obviously gonna be some time before shift leaders start.
so gonna stay a stuck stock manager - got quite used to it now. so only time will tell what will happen .
As long as you don't official accept and sign new contract there is nothing they can do bar the status quo
Just had my end of year 'touchpoint' (review in english).
Went for an 'exceed' as I hadn't had any responsibilities or accountabilities, so my logic was just by turning up for work I had exceeded any expectations. (got a 'met')
Made the point that does two small role changes make one whole one?
New letter now in my file (those accepting the change are expected to sign it)- told I can keep stock manager job description, but expected to do a new role as I must have something to be measured against ..... still all very confusing
Anybody still doing Food Stock Role?
I mean in the role and doing the role, not running another department, but still on paper in the role.
I am NFSC, manager, currently off .
I have always fought the change
streaker.
Have you agreed to the new changes in terms of being a generic team manager?
No, part reason for being off. Job is bigger than described. So one in office hasn't worked in 1.3 million store and experienced it.
streaker - you have my sympathy. Please dont give up. Keep pushing them for an outcome.
Tesco seem to think they are the law. A lot of colleagues still believe everything they are told.
In some cases Tesco are correct, but not always.
Quote from: stockstaffreduction on 03-07-21, 10:47AM
Anybody still doing Food Stock Role?
I mean in the role and doing the role, not running another department, but still on paper in the role.
I'm still in the role, not running any other department and refuse to be a team manager, so still working as a food stock manager.
My advice to Food Stock Managers is to seek legal advice sooner than later.
I am not leaking information. I cannot say anymore then that. I am not scaremongering.
I am in the Food Stock Role and have been for a long time. I can assure Tesco are working on resolving this issue of managers not accepting the new Team Manager Role, and your Usdaw rep will be of little use.