So i was 6 minutes late this morning and i've been told company policy is that I know have to stay for 15 minutes after my shift. Can anyone please let me know whether or not this is true!?
Nope, not true.... If your late you can be docked but it has to be the full alloted time, otherwise it'd withholding pay... Its complete :-X :-X :-X lateness can be addressed by a manager doing a lets talk to find out why if its multiple occasions, if it's in values of 15 mins it can be docked since that's how pay is processed but below 15 mins and one offs etc aren't to be treated that way... Ask them do your colleagues stay behind or do they? :D
You cannot be deducted anything, at all, ever, without either your written permission or a court order. Also you do not HAVE to stay back to 'make it up.
If this is a one off, tell your manageer to give his head a good wobble and get over himself.
If it is a recurring issue, give yourself a good shake, and buck up.
Either way - no deduction without your written permission (Truck emplyment acts c.1888) if they are seriously going to spend 30 mins for two people doing a lets talk over a six min lateness, explain to them the stupidity of this. Also get union involvel and waste everybodies time. Add up all the man hours and present it to someone way abouve this clown.
These half-wits are making it up as they go along, dont back down.
Told by whom, if it was someone in charge then that person needs to be trained up on lateness policy, if it was anyone else just ignore them as its nothing to do with them anyway.
on the odd occasion i have been late i have never lost any pay. another colleague is constantly 10-20 minutes every day and he isnt docked or even addressed by a manager regarding it
Oh, Hell no. They can ask you to make up the time you were late. Anything over that counts as overtime and has to be paid as such. This was sorted out years ago.
A number of years ago now I was late due to a serious RTA en route to work and all other routes were congested as a result.
Apologised to my then manager and waited until quarter past the hour I was meant to start work and agreed to stay fifteen minutes later to make life easier for our Wage clerk (pre Work and Pay).
End result? Unpaid 15 minutes due to lateness, which I found out about much later on, when they were no longer my manager ???.
As previously echoed it's a conduct issue, if they really want to go down that route, should lateness be a persistent issue and nor should it be unpaid.
I've never worked in Wages but I'd imagine, especially with W&P, they are able to enter notes onto the system to say that it's either a 'one off' or persistent?
Lateness is always paid, has been since the tribunal ruling where 17 members of staff stuck it to Tesco for docking pay and issuing warnings.
They can not punish you twice for the infraction, either they can dock pay or the can discipline the member of staff, Tesco wisely chose to include lateness within the disciplinary policy so pay cannot be deducted.
I've arrived 3 hours late and still been paid, it was a one off and I wasn't the only one that day everyone was paid.
They should have a let's talk recorded conversation as to the reasons why but that's about it unless it's a serial problem.
Always ask to see where in the policy document it states that to any manager who talks like this.
Isn't it a bit odd if you arrive hours late you still get paid for it?
It is odd but that is the policy and therefore what has to happen.
It is clear from the posts in this thread you cannot be docked pay for lateness, even if the lateness involves hours late.
They pay all lateness.
The reason is so they can then investigate people for being late, in the case of hours it was because the QE2 bridge was shut me aging traffic was chaos dozens of drivers were late that day.
We've also had to be paid when we couldn't actually get to the centre for 2 hours because of bombs being found next door.
Lateness was once unpaid and treated as misconduct after a group tribunal action it was rolled this was unlawful and the order was to reimburse the colleagues the monies docked and remove all traced of misconduct from their files.
Going forward Tesco chose to treat lateness as misconduct meaning they must pay it to comply with the law.
If someone is persistent in being late an investigation into the cause should take place.
But a one off 6 minute lateness requires a conversation as to why documented on a let's talk form and nothing more.
[mod]Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).[/mod]
I know let's talk forms end up on your record but for how long? I have asked managers but they don't seem to know.
So, in theory, if you get a let's talk for being late and then 6 months or a year down the line you're a few minutes late again, can they pull this first form up and use it against you?
Apparently let's talks aren't a disciplinary measure but a coaching tool, It can be referenced to but but not used in further acts of misconduct of the same nature because it's not a disciplinary measure.
They aren't removed from your file, they remain forever, the idea being that they can identify old trends and be used to coach the employee.
Managers see them as mini warnings and will use them as such, just remember you can add anything to the form you want added I did and managers hated it, after 6 months you can make a request to have the form removed as no longer relevant.
In all my time with Tesco I have never heard of people making a request after 6 months as no longer relevant.
Please can you quote the policy on this rule?
To me it seems ridiculous if that was the case, as who says it is no longer relevant after 6 months? Surely it's a case by case basis
Quote from: horatiocain on 07-09-21, 11:55AM
They pay all lateness.
The reason is so they can then investigate people for being late, in the case of hours it was because the QE2 bridge was shut me aging traffic was chaos dozens of drivers were late that day.
We've also had to be paid when we couldn't actually get to the centre for 2 hours because of bombs being found next door.
Lateness was once unpaid and treated as misconduct after a group tribunal action it was rolled this was unlawful and the order was to reimburse the colleagues the monies docked and remove all traced of misconduct from their files.
Going forward Tesco chose to treat lateness as misconduct meaning they must pay it to comply with the law.
If someone is persistent in being late an investigation into the cause should take place.
But a one off 6 minute lateness requires a conversation as to why documented on a let's talk form and nothing more.
No policy at all says a one off lateness of six mins needs a lets talk, in fact it seems totally over the top really.
Please read the policy correctly
Not all lateness is paid!!
Lateness is paid "unless covered by an exciting policy"
Ie time off polcy
Lateness is paid but a "let's talk" is a record of a conversation. The conversation could be from from repeated lateness heading into disciplinary, to a one off. If it's a one off the let's talk can agree working time back, this may depend on how late etc. It could be a record of a conversation to say stuck in road work or bus broke down. It could be anything. It could also be that you are in the beginning of struggling with your shift due to a change in personal circumstances.
There is a time scale for all files. They put out a clearance event every so often with what should be kept and from what date. As far as I'm aware the only thing kept forever is a till investigation form.
No..... lateness is not always paid. Giving this advice here and in the workplace is landing people in trouble
Yes a let's talk is a record of conversation, without it a lot of situations will be otherwise formal!
Who wants that?
Again, yes they can be used in future formal meetings as evidence, due to an adult conversation taking place and that conversation didn't help then the alternative is a more Formal corrective measure.
Who needs a more Formal meetimg ? I know the rep who said this should have been rectified informally..... show me why it hasn't
If we all did our job things would be so much easier
@valleyboy
A simple but comprehensive explanation of a situation where lateness is not/should not be paid could be very useful for some persons/employees.
Page 3 of the policy states all lateness is paid as PA300 or L.
Both are fully paid.
It states categorically the lateness is always paid on the same page.
Furthermore is goes on to describe that a conversation should be had surrounding the cause of the lateness, which should automatically generate a let's talk form capturing this discussion.
It further illustrates when lateness could be considered misconduct.
If lateness isn't paid a grievance should be filed, its a breach of policy.
And you can request anything no longer relevant be removed from your employment file, after 6 months it can easily be argued that it isn't relevant and can be removed.
Or if they ever bring it up you make the same argument otherwise its being used as a discplinary sanction without a hearing which breached several employment laws.
Remember let's talk form are not discplinary sanctions just a record of a conversation, as such if the record is no longer relevant it shouldn't remain on file and you have the right to ask for it to be removed.
Also as it isn't a dsicinary sanction using its existence as justification to launch a discplinary hearing would not hold water from a legal standpoint, you're not allowed to consider expired warnings, and warnings must have an expiration date/period.
As a let's talk has no expiration it's use is limited.
From lateness perspective the lets talk could be used to identify a pattern if an employee was often late on Sunday morning but the same amount each month after payday then they establish a pattern, but if there is a hearing and next steps issued the reduction in frequency of lateness would indicate improvement.
Let's talk form are managerial tools, not discplinary action, but managers don't use them properly.
Now returning to the OP.
Lateness is paid as per page 3 of the policy document.
It's written down and became a term and condition of your employment.
Hold them to it.
@ nomad of course
The below is available on colleague help
What do we define as lateness?
There may be times when a colleague struggles to get to work on time for one reason or another. We define lateness as when a colleague turns up after the start of their scheduled shift or working day.
A colleague won't be classed as late if the reason for their lateness is covered in a pre-existing policy, such as the Time Off Policy; this should be treated and managed as absence.
The time off policy is also available
Hope this helps and prevents colleagues from thinking all lateness is paid
@ horatiocain
There are pages before page 3
Also do you really want to remove the informal approach to misconduct issues?
A let's talk is a positive and complies with the acas codes of practice.
Basically it's an adult conversation recorded on a company document, agreed it doesn't have an expiration date. But really does a behaviour conversation need a expirey date?
What could be the reason(s) for not giving it an expiry date ? ???
It someone is late a let's talk can be used as a record of a conversation on how the colleague will pay back the time. If this is what happen that is the end of it. If it is paid lateness without paying back time this is also recorded on let's talk. Going forward, repeated paid lateness can be disciplined. Lateness that has been unpaid or colleague has worked back the time can't, you can't be punished twice. Not paining you for lateness means you have been punished so there should not be a disciplinary giving a second punishment.
Let's specify lateness it's not being on time.
From a policy perspective unless it's related to time off which is unlikely it will be processed as lateness.
All lateness is paid.
If you're late because you've taken time off that's time off and not lateness then the lateness policy doesn't apply, because its time off, sorry but I thought that was obvious.
If your journey takes an extra hour that's lateness.
If your car breaks down and you have to wait for a tow, lateness.
You sleep through your alarm, lateness.
If you take time off to pop to a pharmacy before work that's not lateness that's time off, I figured everyone would understand the difference, although you should visit the pharmacy outside your work hours if you can.
However all lateness is paid, your car broke down you slept through your alarm, a tesco van hit a focus and you had to wait for the road to be opened they found a bomb next door, all are lateness, all are paid
Let's talks are only to be kept on file while they are relevant, as are all documents, you PSM should be purging files of no longer relevant information annually, holiday for should be disposed of after the year they apply, change of hours forms should be destroyed after 13 months etc
You can request to examine your file with your PSM and ask for any information to be removed if it no longer has bearing, which can include a let's talk half of the time these are not used correctly.
Every occasion of lateness should necessitate a let's talk, to make sure there are no problems, it's proactive management, but then again these are not discplinary forms but are used as such, so be careful.
Quote from: horatiocain on 11-09-21, 06:07PM
but then again these are not discplinary forms but are used as such, so be careful.
And that is the reason that I refuse to have one without a witness present.
It is illogical to me to say they are not a disciplinary measure, and then to bring them up in a disciplinary meeting.
I love them, because I can give them to managers for not doing their job too, then have them filed on their record, a let's talk is just a recording of a conversation.
Use them to your advantage too.
If they present one written out I loved screwing it up and taking a blank one out and taking some notes including improper use of a let's talk form.
I'm not asked to be in too many meetings now.
few weeks ago i clocked in 10 seconds "late" after the 3 minutes - because a manager was talking to me when i was trying to go to clock on
15 minutes of pay was reduced from me! - so i just took extra 15 minute break next shift.. im not working for free as they said it was "your responsibility to clock in" - even though.... it was the store manager who was holding me up
if its reduced from you put in a pay query, even if you take the extra break to be honest, make them pay your a** since they aren't allowed to withhold pay, lateness is dealt with lets talk etc first, but it works 10 mins both side, not 3 minutes.
Quote from: BlueToon on 12-09-21, 08:30PM
Quote from: horatiocain on 11-09-21, 06:07PM
but then again these are not disciplinary forms but are used as such, so be careful.
And that is the reason that I refuse to have one without a witness present.
It is illogical to me to say they are not a disciplinary measure, and then to bring them up in a disciplinary meeting.
Let them stack let's talks for not a lot if anything at all. You might get the dismissed but you will also get a nice unfair dismissal payout. Find yourself another job let the nonsense build up then when the time comes the bills are covered and you get a nice pump sum. Start spending in Lidl and your money will go a further. Only people getting paid well at Tesco is the lead team and above. SM I knew cleaned the floors with a scrub drier when they got rid of the cleaner as the few GAs said they were too busy.
You shouldn't have been stopped 15 minutes for lateness that is not policy. I would be questioning that with your manager.
Quote from: oldfashionedplayer on 23-12-21, 11:31PM
if its reduced from you put in a pay query, even if you take the extra break to be honest, make them pay your a** since they aren't allowed to withhold pay, lateness is dealt with lets talk etc first, but it works 10 mins both side, not 3 minutes.
we have had signs up for many weeks that since moving our payslips to the new system you get 3 minutes either side or it will "mess up the system" - just a pain i was seconds "late" - but not late enough to trigger any "lets talk" but late enough to dock 15 minutes of pay count me as quarter past not o'clock! -
but once I'm back in work after this Covid infection I've got I'm gonna show my payslip and my-shift and query it
Quote from: biggerpicture on 25-12-21, 08:27AM
You shouldn't have been stopped 15 minutes for lateness that is not policy. I would be questioning that with your manager.
yeh I did think it was very odd - there's been signs about you must clock on time with in a 3 minute window either side - but nothing was said that being a few seconds over the 3 minutes means 15 minutes docked off - its something I'm definitely going to bring up when I'm back at work (stupid Covid).
Would be fair if clock out 5 min extra and got 15 min extra paid, of course it would never happened.
Tell me about it. Number times I've clocked out late as customers held me up and don't get paid extra, but they are quick to try and remove pay! lol
All lateness is paid, unless your late because of another policy its paid. Raise a pay query and a grievance and complain, it's a breach of policy, and an illegal deduction of wages.
Quote from: person7 on 25-12-21, 11:39PM
Quote from: biggerpicture on 25-12-21, 08:27AM
You shouldn't have been stopped 15 minutes for lateness that is not policy. I would be questioning that with your manager.
yeh I did think it was very odd - there's been signs about you must clock on time with in a 3 minute window either side - but nothing was said that being a few seconds over the 3 minutes means 15 minutes docked off - its something I'm definitely going to bring up when I'm back at work (stupid Covid).
I questioned this 3 minutes either way and was told it was to do with the tablet, so I delved a little further asking what was the issue with the tablet as a human you could over ride this glitch all I got was it's company policy, what a joke no such policy exists.
Quote from: horatiocain on 26-12-21, 07:38PM
All lateness is paid, unless your late because of another policy its paid. Raise a pay query and a grievance and complain, it's a breach of policy, and an illegal deduction of wages.
Spoke to my manager and he said he will get the wages team to take a look but can take up to 2 weeks as they are isolating. He said he was told it's to do with the clocking/card swipe is all computerised/automated now with no human intervention and going over 3 minutes does not register on the system as its only "live" at certain times since upgrading from Windows XP on their servers. (we were all windows XP until about 6 months ago)
But has logged it as an "adjustment needed" to get my 15 minutes backpay
That not true the system automatically flags you as late and pays you because that's the policy someone has to manually tell the system not to pay you by manually entering clocking times to alter payroll.