Scenario,
Holidays requested on holiday form, 2 days, 1 in Feb, 1 in march, both approved via returned holiday slip on day after submitted, then 14 days later another copy of my form returned to me saying they couldn't be booked on the system as 2 many holidays used already.
Employee however has already booked and paid for an activity for those prior "approved" days. Anyone able to comment on how this goes.
Shouldn't the employee have first checked they had sufficient holidays left to take before requesting time off. The manager who signed and returned the form has no issue with you having both days off, however you can not take it as paid holiday. If you arent prepared to take it off unpaid could you potentially take it as TL and make up your hours.
Should be given option of taking time off unpaid if no holidays left
Londoner83, is it not easier for the managers to check that as they have access to the live system whereas the employee may only have their last payslip, which would be at least a month behind
Looks like they did check it and got back to you saying too many booked.
Unpaid can be an option. or shift swap.
Madness, yes checked it but 15 whole days after they received the form and 14 days after they had actually approved them by signing the return slip, employee has since booked and paid for other things on those days now on the strength of the return slip
Manager can't summon up more holiday entitlement at will. Doesn't matter if it was approved or not, the system will not allow it.
I'd suggest organising shift swaps.
If anyone is imagining that they can kick up a fuss and get the time off paid because the manager handed the form back they can forget it.
Tough.
If poster cannot keep a tally of how many days holiday they have taken then quite simply they only have themselves to blame.
Unpaid leave if you're lucky. Personally if I was your manager I would just refuse the time off in order to teach you a lesson.
You should have had all your holidays booked by now. Your Christmas working arrangements was the time to sew up those odd days. Was it simply the fact that you thought you had two days left and it was the bh used for Christmas? Holiday booking window starts on 1st April for the 2021/2022 holiday year.
Wages clerks tend to print off the holiday forms and inform the manager of any outstanding holidays. Your manager was wrong not to know or check if you had days left. However, you have an entitlement and that is it. It is also up to you to make sure you go on holiday when you have booked and to be aware of how many days you have left to book. If you are not sure you need to ask.
We could all book extra days and claim not my fault. Would be an easy way to get extra holidays every year if it was that simple and easy.
Think it's six of one, and half a dozen of the other here...the employee, probably barely trained properly in their own department, only has a wage slip for guidance, and like so many find, the wage slips are extremely difficult to comprehend at the best of times, and all to frequently, WRONG!! So if they have read last month's wage slip which showed days left to take...then they could be forgiven for thinking they had days left to take.
The manager has failed to check, as you would have expected them to, being that all entitlement should have been booked and approved at the beginning of the year. If the employee believes they have days left to book, ask the wages clerk to cross reference holiday ent/BH ent on the system, as often the holidays already taken can be coded wrongly as holiday booked as BH and vice versa.
I would expect, on this occasion time off unpaid, or work the hours beforehand to take as T/L. I think they've stopped the working the time back at a later date??
@nowanexmanager
If the manager is so thick as to authorise a holiday request from one of their team, without checking their dept holiday diary as to who's booked time off, when, and taken their full entitlement, then quite simply they only have themselves to blame.
Personally, if it was my manager, I would just grievance it, in order to teach them a lesson!
Surely the holiday system should be checking if trying to book holiday over and above the allowance and flag it up so the manager can then enter it as unpaid (after checking with the colleague that is what they want to do)?
DFL are you a rep or are these "friends" actually you?
The holidays and bank holidays taken on payslips runs the same as overtime so are a week behind every payday. It doesn't show how many holidays are booked which is where a lot of confusion comes from.
gomezz - the HRAM system will not let holidays, bank holidays and personal days be booked if the colleague doesn't have any/enough entitlement remaining. It flashes up with a warning that the time will be unpaid if booked.
In this case the holidays "booked" are mine, but I'm not a rep.
And for clarity, I indeed booked these in good faith believing I had holidays left, problem I have now is the fact I've arranged to be elsewhere other than work on the dates and indeed paid money to do so
Its your own responsibility to make sure you ask for the right amount, Your manager obviously said yes after looking at the rota gave you your sheet back and when they were being put on the system it spat it back saying too many booked.
So not their fault and you have 3 options, unpaid leave which should not be a problem to the company as the holidays were accepted anyway....Or move days from other holidays to accomodate the new one or Cancel your plans.
@forrestgimp, I once had a rep say to me tho if Tesco tell you anything is done a certain way and you disagree you could say show me the policy, I've never seen any that says anything other than what's on the form, is the bit where the manager signs to say they are approved and the note about making sure they are approved before making external arrangements, so have I not fulfilled this ?
@lucgeo :thumbup: >:D :D
@forrestgimp
Whereas it may be a part responsibility to request the correct amount of leave, the manager should not have authorised the request based purely on the dept rota. The whole point of handing in a holiday request form, is to gain authorisation for the requested dates from the dept manager. That manager should immediately check the holiday diary, and their part copies of all requests submitted and authorised, either at the holiday planning meeting, or a later date. Hence the reason they are given the 7 day timescale to enable an input on the system and a written reply to the request, also the reason a holiday is automatically authorised if they fail to reply in the set timescale, which would seem tesco deem as an acceptable timeframe for a manager to perform their role using the tools provided.
To put the onus on the employee, in that they have sole responsibility to book the correct amount of leave, kind of makes the holiday booking meetings, written requests, to their manager following the correct procedures somewhat pointless.
In my opinion, the buck stops with the manager, who should be apologising for being too lazy and incompetent to take the time needed to basically look in a book, and input on the system. All of ten minutes...tops!
Is this now a case of keep asking the question over and over until you get the answer you want?
Some colleagues manage holidays better then others. One hands in holiday form on 1st April and has all in service days for school organised. Another books, re-books time and time again. Another leaves things as long as possible. This time of year it tends to be people who have left as long as possible or have been off sick. If you have been sick it will cancel out a holiday. If you turn into work when due to be on holiday (it happens) it will cancel out a holiday. You could also have reached the length of service that grants you extra days or taken on extra contracted shifts that grants extra days. This all needs to be managed. Things happen that muddy the water. If it's a simple matter of holidays booked last Jan that colleague had forgotten about its more down to the colleague but manager needs to manage situation too. If the water is muddy it's both. This manager will probably now take that bit longer at getting back to colleagues requesting holiday. They will do the check on wages system that does not need a wages clerk to do, managers can do.
It's all going on an app very shortly. My shift will tell you your shifts but also tell you when on holiday. I'm sure some people in my store deliberately come in earn on holiday and try to manipulate system. They do this rather than book then re-book. It's costs whole store overtime so I expect this is why holidays will show on the app. Overtime is put in place to cover holiday, colleague comes into work so holiday pay has been put aside for them then not used, someone has overtime to cover for them and they are paid to come to work. Dept over spends on overtime. It does not happen often but it does happen. Will be interesting to see if app gives details on how many holidays are booked.
@forrestgimp, I once had a rep say to me tho if Tesco tell you anything is done a certain way and you disagree you could say show me the policy, I've never seen any that says anything other than what's on the form, is the bit where the manager signs to say they are approved and the note about making sure they are approved before making external arrangements, so have I not fulfilled this ?
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Yea and to a degree thats true, however in this case you made the mistake by asking for holidays you were not entitled to, The onus is not on your line manager to determine whether or not you have had too many or booked too many before they say yes to the request, all they are supposed to do is make sure the holidays are available on your department and give you a yes/no answer based on that then the form goes to wages and gets inputted and thats the point that it gets spat back out.
Imagine a front end manager with 60 people to deal with it would be unresonable to expect them to know how many holidays each person was entitled to how many they had taken and how many they had left to book, no thats your job.
As for the aproval before making external arrangements yes you are correct I suspect the delay in inputting the holidays onto the system is where the problem comes from, like I said you have a few options and you will get to take your holiday you will just have to adjust how you do that.
You can not expect to get extra holidays simply because your manager was not aware you had tried to book more than you were entitled to, I mean if that was the case every time we got a new options candidate I would be booking 4 weeks off and getting 8 months a year off.
I've got several hols left over from last year's allowance,how do I get them? Will they be TL? This has happened for a few years now as managers golden boys get first dabs at the holiday book.
Sorry, but the onus is on the colleague to ensure they booked the correct holiday. The manager would just authorise it from the holiday diary just saying yes or no based upon how many people are off. Under new guidelines most managers do not now have access to the HRAM system so they would wait for the colleague in wages to code the holiday on the system, that colleague may have been off for a couple of weeks or they could have been late coding on the system, sorry to be be obvious here but the colleague know what their entitlement is and it's down to them to ensure they don't over book the holiday otherwise everyone in the company would do the same thing. Need to just be sensible here it's down to the colleague end of !!!! Too easy to try and blame the manager these days colleagues have their own responsibility too
What happens when the wages clerk codes the holiday wrong such as coding a BH instead of Unpaid which leaves the colleagues shorter of days left than they should have? How can the colleague check ahead of time that what is booked on the system matches what they agreed with their manager?
Wages clerks only input what managers tell them. If the coding is incorrect it can be changed once the problem is brought to light.
Unrelated kind of but anyone else's store changed holiday policy only affecting night-shift replenishment? Our store manager has purposely discriminated against night team by only allowing 2 people off on any given night. Considering we work in largest store in Scotland, it now means that its near impossible to organise holidays :(
[gmod]Yes a bit off topic, name calling removed.[/gmod]
I worked for store managers that used to make stupid policies like that up without thinking them through. I ignored them and followed company policy. It worked for the holidays but I'm not a manager now.
At this late stage of the year, any request for holidays left to book should automatically be queried as to where this time owing has come from, as all holiday booking windows have passed, and each team manager should have either completed all requests or allocated holidays to those who failed to book in the allotted and extended grace time allowance. The manager should know instantly if one of their team, had a cancelled holiday due to sickness, or carried over etc...hence the need to check both the diary and the system for error in coding previously.
@Mark calloway
Unsure how you have managed to accrue holidays from previous years, if only due to not booking your full entitlement each year? All holidays entitlement should be taken, and there is a legal baseline of how many weeks people should be off p.a. Unless you have not taken your full allowance due to the protected reasons, e.g. Sickness, maternity leave, then it's a "you snooze, you lose" situation.
Who agreed to you carrying them over? And do you have it in writing?
In writing?? Not a chance in our store. I've asked for hols but frequently told there's already two off so it's "no". If I keep getting told no how can I get them??
First off you request your holidays ASAP, you can request following years holidays before the new booking window opens, to ensure you get the times you want. Ask for a holiday request meeting with your manager to enable you to see what weeks are available in the diary, this should be happening anyway with the normal booking sessions.
If the new holiday booking system comes in on the tablet, then you can clearly see what weeks/days are available to book, and you don't have to rely on the manager's mates getting preference.
You should speak to your manager in the first instance regarding what holiday weeks are available to book your remaining entitlement, and your holidays carried over. Hopefully they will confirm their agreement to you for it to be carried over...if not...you need to speak to your rep for advice. Any untaken allowance from previous years should be questioned, preferably to the SM, as you have been prevented from taking your full legal holiday entitlement away from the business in the previous years, and therefore have had owing monetary payments due to you withheld.
The manager can deny all they want that they didn't agree to carry it over, but they will have a hard job proving it, as you clearly haven't taken all your allowance, so must have been on the understanding that it was agreed to carry over, as no one is going to just go without their entitlement or pay, off their own bat are they??
Nowanexmgr:
"Tough.
If poster cannot keep a tally of how many days holiday they have taken then quite simply they only have themselves to blame.
Unpaid leave if you're lucky. Personally if I was your manager I would just refuse the time off in order to teach you a lesson."
And this is why staff who have worked for Tescos for a long time are leaving!
So called managers who have no integrity or moral courage that treat staff like dirt!!
Well said. So glad Nowanexmanager is a ex manager. What an obnoxious person.
Should call himself "nowanexmanagerbecauseiwasuselessatmyjob"
If he tried "teaching me a lesson" I'd have got him sacked faster than he could blink and he'd be on the dole the week after
No it should be...
nowanexmangerwhogotredundancythenreinstatedpossiblytobemaderedundantagain...
He/she's a bit like marmite...I've taken a sharp intake of breath on some of their posts, remonstrated on others, my response #10 on this topic, but I get where they're coming from most of the time. Old school, old standards.
@Mark Calloway
You'd do well to read the link provided by Katarn2000 on the flexi contract questions topic.
There is a set percentage of how much a drop can have off at once. I have seen this sort of thing happen before, the maths just don't add up. With a restriction like that there may not be any gaps left in the diary. A few colleagues on long service six weeks holidays can block the diary, easily.
We work to live and not live to work so holidays are important. We need a good work life balance but on the other hand we need to be able to deliver our jobs. I assume that an over booking has taken place and that is why the store manager has said this.
Holidays should be authorised on first come first served basis. The sooner you get the form in the better.
Only way to carry holidays over is for them to go in the system as holidays but you come to work and don't clock and take time back next year as TL. I understand that sick and maternity holidays uns used are paid but can take as TL. Time outstanding from this time last year is very poor organisation and should not happen.
by the way, wages clerk can't over book holidays, the system won't allow. This does not stand for bh, they can be overbooked but they just go as unpaid, the system just does this. A good wages clerk will catch this but they are human and if flooded with lots at bookings at the end of the year mistakes can happen.
This takes me back to a few years ago in my less bolshie days. My manager told me I had so many weeks off, so I booked accordingly there and then in front of him. In the final week, I was staying with my friend a hundred and fifty miles from home - when on the first day, a colleague tells me via social media that my manager urgently needed to speak to me. Well I hardly liked to be disturbed on holiday, but I'd just be worrying about whatever it was, so thought it best to just get it out the way. So I phoned him, and he told me that he had miscalculated how much holiday I was entitled to as I had dropped from six days to five - and I should be working that week after all. Could I come in that morning? When I told him I was staying with a friend a hundred and fifty miles away for the week, his reply was...
"Well can you come in tomorrow?"
I said something like "Most probably not" and hung up on the damned fool! So that left a raw taste in my mouth for the rest of my holiday. When I went back the following week, he said he had graciously paid me for three days, but I would have to make up the other two for his mistake. I suggested carrying them over, but he said that couldn't be done and I'd have to work Good Friday and Easter Monday (which I never usually do) to make up for it.
Can't help thinking I'd have been well within my rights to tell him to get stuffed.
I will be retiring at the end of this and will be dropping a day and will be being paid for it , do I have to book a holiday day or bank holidays day for it.
Hornimans135 , you can drop a fifth of your working week for 6months before you retire and get paid for it , it doesn’t come out of your holiday days .
Have you informed the pension dept of your intention to retire? When are you due to retire?
It is advisable to inform your manager and the pension dept at least 8 months prior to your redundancy date, giving them plenty of time to enable everybody to arrange your drop down in hours.
Your manager should have explained to you the drop in hours, which is one fifth of your contracted hours, and arranged, by mutual agreement, as to what shift/ hours you drop. This takes effect for your remaining 6 months to your retirement date.
So if your having a day dropped from your shift, you are still paid for it, and it is still classed as your working week. Therefore you still get the same allowance regarding holidays, bank holidays etc.. It is not covered by your allowance, and you don't have to use up any entitlement to cover it...think off it as T/L in advance.
You can use any remaining holidays, or b/h entitlement to finish earlier, if you still have some outstanding, nearer the date, again mutually agreed.
How long have you worked for Tesco's?? As some long serving colleagues will have accrued frozen pay, from when they started, based on the contracted hours you did then, not now. So if you qualify, this should also be paid on retirement.
If your age plus years of service add up to 80 years or more, you keep your discount card.
so does this mean for a weeks holiday I only have to book 4 days instead of 5? many thanks
Hmm....you'd have to double check that...your entitlement doesn't change, but they may incorporate the paid shift as part of your holiday entitlement, if your a union member, ask your rep to enquire as to how it's calculated.
Ooohh...now you've got me thinking, as if they take it off your entitlement, then they'd not be granting you a paid drop down...I'm thinking it's probably your right, and only need to be booking 4 days!!
Anyone else got thoughts on this??
It's a nice perk but doesnt half add more complexity to the running of the company to get it right.
I read that you have to be employed by Tesco’s for 10 years to take advantage of the retirement day reduction in the last 6 months before your retirement date
I think you are correct, there is a stipulation like that.
If you work 5 days and drop to 4 , you still have to book 5 days for your weeks holiday.
Don’t book full weeks then just one or two days a week that’s what I’m doing then I still get paid for the day I’ve dropped without it affecting my holiday allowance.
Quote from: Plato on 10-03-20, 06:53PM
If you work 5 days and drop to 4 , you still have to book 5 days for your weeks holiday.
No you don't, you only book off contracted days. You can opt to do overtime on your day off but the brief is that you should have down time and not do this too often.
Anyone else in the same boat as me and not booked a single holiday for Apr 2020-march 21? :D
I put my retirement letter in beginning of Nov to start 14/12/20 still hasn’t been sorted.
I off on furlough (CEV) until Boris lets me back. Don’t want to lose out on what is a retirement perk. Can someone help me please. What can I do and what do I need to do.?
1. Contact the manager by phone over the status of your retirement letter, if not happy with outcome...
2. Contact your Store or People Partner to inform them of your retirement letter not being processed, if still not happy with outcome ...
3. Grievance to the people partner over your boggle with the responsible manager, store manager or the people partner.
Thanks for your help have now got sorted out.
How much holiday will I accrue from 1st April until 14th June I know I will have
1 personal day but don’t know how many holidays and BH days I will have. I work 4 days a week.
Many thanks.
Best way would be to look on your June 2020 payslip to work it out.
As for your personal day, technically you wouldn’t be entitled to it, however if it’s coded before you leave, I’ve not known 1 person who has had it taken back off them in their leaving pay.
I think I read somewhere once that you need to be employed after September to qualify for a personal day.
Can personal days be taken in the new year, if staff asked but were told too busy in run up to Christmas?
yes. any day upto march 31st
Any idea when holiday booking will be going online?
When your store moves to work and pay. It is still authorised by your manager but saves the paperwork.