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Author Topic: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked  (Read 9469 times)

Ibanker2

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Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« on: 22-05-21, 08:21AM »
Can anyone explain why full time Managers are contracted to a minimum 36hrs per week but scheduled to 37.5hrs. Does it happen in all stores? This equates to approx £1000 per year of unpaid time.


There seem to be various replies when this topic is raised in store...


Its always been like that
In dim and distant past Managers had a short day but that was done away with
Contract says a Minimum of 36hrs

Rad

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #1 on: 22-05-21, 08:30AM »
They aren't scheduled to 37.5 hrs or shouldn't be anyway. 

« Last Edit: 22-05-21, 08:32AM by Rad »
 

Rad

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #2 on: 22-05-21, 08:36AM »
When people say short day was done away with they may be referring to guidance that full timers shift patterns be changed so that 4 days a week they finish 15 mins early. 

Managers should be working a minimum of those hours as you say.

Ask to be scheduled or just request the time back as days of etc.but don't let it build up for months or years before you raise it.
 

Me2015

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #3 on: 22-05-21, 09:14AM »
Always been the case that managers work 5 shifts and theoretically one should be classed an early day, ie 4x7.5 then 1x6 to give the 36hr contract, however over time the expectation from store managers was this rule is not to be implemented thus you working for free over the year!

I always took my early day, got me in trouble at times however my case was always the fact my weekly role was completed so no need for me to be in any longer than needed, and I urge everyone, who isn’t a brown nose, to do the same!

Any push back from your manager could be seen as bullying….

Davethebave

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #4 on: 22-05-21, 11:24AM »
Request the extra hours as payment on work and pay

If they pay, happy days!

If not, don’t work it

Ibanker2

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #5 on: 22-05-21, 05:45PM »
They aren't scheduled to 37.5 hrs or shouldn't be anyway.


I have worked in 2 stores both schedule Managers to 37.5hrs. I have spoken with Managers in neighbouring stores and they too are scheduled to 37.5. I therefore think this is the norm and am trying to prove it as I defo agree that Managers shouldn't be scheduled to 37.5hrs.

Ibanker2

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #6 on: 22-05-21, 05:55PM »
Always been the case that managers work 5 shifts and theoretically one should be classed an early day, ie 4x7.5 then 1x6 to give the 36hr contract, however over time the expectation from store managers was this rule is not to be implemented thus you working for free over the year!

I always took my early day, got me in trouble at times however my case was always the fact my weekly role was completed so no need for me to be in any longer than needed, and I urge everyone, who isn’t a brown nose, to do the same!

Any push back from your manager could be seen as bullying….


I think the issue I have raised is, likely, company wide and has been going on for years. When the issue has been raised Store Managers/ PM's/Lead Team all have different answers yet all in one way or another support the status quo. I know in one store the claim to work 36hrs was flatly rejected.

NightAndDay

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #7 on: 22-05-21, 06:16PM »
Conversely to peoples statements here, I know of a few instances where SMs are doing half their contracted hours because their store is a diddle to manage. Though in one case, an SM got read the riot act by the AM because of a grievance from an SL of the SM not doing his contracted hours.

I think the key here is autonomy and managing expectations. Tesco may very well have their own KPIs for how long something takes, but a business requirements analysis from an external group could discredit that.

The fact that managers are seemingly on the system to do 37.5 hours on a 36 hour a week contract says to me there's quite a strong case for a legal challenge.
« Last Edit: 22-05-21, 06:19PM by NightAndDay »

Ibanker2

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #8 on: 22-05-21, 07:32PM »
I agree re legal challenge.  Just trying to get ducks in a row and then find out how to proceed.  Weirdly from my experience part time managers just do there contracted hrs, work that out if you can 8-)
« Last Edit: 22-05-21, 09:33PM by Nomad »

VladPutin

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #9 on: 22-05-21, 07:47PM »
"It's good for your development". ;)

Me2015

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #10 on: 22-05-21, 09:02PM »
Conversely to peoples statements here, I know of a few instances where SMs are doing half their contracted hours because their store is a diddle to manage. Though in one case, an SM got read the riot act by the AM because of a grievance from an SL of the SM not doing his contracted hours.

I think the key here is autonomy and managing expectations. Tesco may very well have their own KPIs for how long something takes, but a business requirements analysis from an external group could discredit that.

The fact that managers are seemingly on the system to do 37.5 hours on a 36 hour a week contract says to me there's quite a strong case for a legal challenge.

Morally yes, your right it ‘should’ have rise to legal implications, however ‘legally’ it does not, and trust me I know, plus the fact it’s been going on for so long without question gives emphasis to Tesco that’s it’s just a contractual ‘as and when’ situation
« Last Edit: 22-05-21, 09:05PM by Me2015 »

Morris999

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #11 on: 22-05-21, 11:55PM »
To be honest I’ve worked in about 8 large format stores, and helped out in many others and I’ve never seen a Section/Line or Team Manager Rota that schedules Managers to 37.5 hours per week.
It’s always been Early, In or Late shift, with the odd 10-7 or 11-8 thrown in for support on rare occasions or Xmas.

Now the Old Section/Line Manager and current Team Managers contracts did and do state a minimum of 36 hours a week.

Most of the managers in my current store do 36 hours most weeks myself included, apart from the Fresh manager, who is extremely poor at time management and ends up working on average 10 hours per day.
Our Checkout manager effectively strolls in whenever they feel like it when down for an In shift, but will always complete 36 hours per week and very rarely does more unless there’s been issues on their department that couldn’t be dealt with, but will always take the time back that week or the next.
And has always done that no matter the SM or LT in store.
At the end of the day Team managers are managers and should be able to manage their own working time!
Yes on occasions they will end up doing more than 36 hours but that shouldn’t be the normal.
And yes some managers will just do 9 hours each day because it’s just easier or forget about the so called early day.

Even the new Team managers contracts state your working hours each day, which while doesn’t give you the 1 hour early day each week, does state that your working shifts each day are less than 9 hours(including breaks).

If you are regularly working more than 36 hours per week, then first question your time management, and if you can honestly say that’s fine, then just do the 36 hours per week regardless of what your SM/LM puts on a rota, however make sure your actually performing and completing all your Team Manager role.
And that includes, Team 5 for your colleagues, any Training that needs doing etc.
The amount of Managers that fall down on the basics like that is unbelievable, and they then wonder why they end up on performance management.

Redshoes

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #12 on: 23-05-21, 06:33AM »
From what I have seen in stores it’s just the start time that is put on the rota. After that it’s up to you to manage your day. When we move nearer to the new structure there may be times that the sums just don’t add up. If there is not a mid manager in there is a gap in the middle of the day.

Ibanker2

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #13 on: 23-05-21, 10:38AM »
To be honest I’ve worked in about 8 large format stores, and helped out in many others and I’ve never seen a Section/Line or Team Manager Rota that schedules Managers to 37.5 hours per week.
It’s always been Early, In or Late shift, with the odd 10-7 or 11-8 thrown in for support on rare occasions or Xmas.

Now the Old Section/Line Manager and current Team Managers contracts did and do state a minimum of 36 hours a week.

Most of the managers in my current store do 36 hours most weeks myself included, apart from the Fresh manager, who is extremely poor at time management and ends up working on average 10 hours per day.
Our Checkout manager effectively strolls in whenever they feel like it when down for an In shift, but will always complete 36 hours per week and very rarely does more unless there’s been issues on their department that couldn’t be dealt with, but will always take the time back that week or the next.
And has always done that no matter the SM or LT in store.
At the end of the day Team managers are managers and should be able to manage their own working time!
Yes on occasions they will end up doing more than 36 hours but that shouldn’t be the normal.
And yes some managers will just do 9 hours each day because it’s just easier or forget about the so called early day.

Even the new Team managers contracts state your working hours each day, which while doesn’t give you the 1 hour early day each week, does state that your working shifts each day are less than 9 hours(including breaks).

If you are regularly working more than 36 hours per week, then first question your time management, and if you can honestly say that’s fine, then just do the 36 hours per week regardless of what your SM/LM puts on a rota, however make sure your actually performing and completing all your Team Manager role.
And that includes, Team 5 for your colleagues, any Training that needs doing etc.
The amount of Managers that fall down on the basics like that is unbelievable, and they then wonder why they end up on performance management.


Re Actual shifts - I have worked 5-2, 6-3, 7-4, 8-5, 9-6, 10-7, 11-8,12-9, 1-10. Some are called early (7-4), mid(9-6 or10-7) or late(1-10) most by start time but I could name 5 or 6 stores that I know of personally where ALL Managers are doing at least 37.5hrs. So I am pleased to hear there are stores where Managers regularly do 36hrs per week.
I would also agree that the expectation for Managers should be to deliver their complete job role in the 36 hrs otherwise that is a performance issue. Personally I have done a 13hr shift on a lockdown evening when alarm system failure meant staying in store till is was fixed and that it is part of your job so no complaints from me but these are the exceptions that you are paid to deal with.


I think the some of this problem came from 24hr opening Nightshift being 10pm to 7am 7 days per week and day shifts fell in line. It is also more of a scheduling issue in smaller Superstores with a small number of Managers

chris9997

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #14 on: 23-05-21, 06:32PM »
You know in most stores there are even ga who work more hours than is paid for add that to the managers who are working more hours than they are paid to do this go some way to how tesco makes some of its profit by not employing enough staff to get the job done. It is no good saying all staff should be able to get there tasks done in the allocated hours this is mostly rubbish, all staff managers also should be paid for all hours worked regardless of circumstances.

Ibanker2

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #15 on: 24-05-21, 08:39AM »
You know in most stores there are even ga who work more hours than is paid for add that to the managers who are working more hours than they are paid to do this go some way to how tesco makes some of its profit by not employing enough staff to get the job done. It is no good saying all staff should be able to get there tasks done in the allocated hours this is mostly rubbish, all staff managers also should be paid for all hours worked regardless of circumstances.


That can be a bigger problem. Allowing colleagues to work beyond there agreed shift and not paying them can result in them being paid less than minimum wage which is illegal

NightAndDay

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #16 on: 24-05-21, 08:54AM »
Tesco is not above paying people below the national minimum wage, the recent HMRC naming and shaming is proof of that.

forrestgimp

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #17 on: 24-05-21, 09:01AM »
We had a lead manager for the sake of anonymity we shall call him Bez Garlow who made the manages under him work ridiculous hours regularly forcing them to work 12 hour days, He would at xmas time force the SMs to do 2 weeks prior 7 days 12 hour shifts (needs of the business and all that).

I have seen him force managers who came to work 60 mins prior to their shift commencing to do outstanding paper work they could not do in a normal shift as he had them shelf filling forced to leave it and fill shelves, if your at work you have started work was his justification.

The guy was and probably still is a menace.

Blandboy

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #18 on: 24-05-21, 07:40PM »
Not to mention the fact that because we are contracted for 7.25 hours a day we really shouldn't have to take an hour and a half of  unpaid breaks, it should be an hour. The shifts should only be 8.25 hours long a day

VladPutin

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #19 on: 24-05-21, 07:58PM »
Tesco managers. Never in the field of employment was so much paid to so many for doing so little.  :D

penguin

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #20 on: 24-05-21, 08:14PM »
We had a lead manager for the sake of anonymity we shall call him Bez Garlow who made the manages under him work ridiculous hours regularly forcing them to work 12 hour days, He would at xmas time force the SMs to do 2 weeks prior 7 days 12 hour shifts (needs of the business and all that).

I have seen him force managers who came to work 60 mins prior to their shift commencing to do outstanding paper work they could not do in a normal shift as he had them shelf filling forced to leave it and fill shelves, if your at work you have started work was his justification.

The guy was and probably still is a menace.

Unfortunately until people stand up to bullies like this they will continue to do it, more than enough in that manager’s behaviour to justify a collective greavene by the managers below him.
Do not let anyone tell you there is not a decent job and life beyond Tesco.

forrestgimp

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #21 on: 25-05-21, 03:13PM »
Totally agree unfortunately he gets away with it and as far as I am aware is still getting away with it to this day.

lackofinterest

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #22 on: 25-05-21, 10:04PM »
once a pr**k always a pr**k!!

Ibanker2

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #23 on: 25-05-21, 11:30PM »
Not to mention the fact that because we are contracted for 7.25 hours a day we really shouldn't have to take an hour and a half of  unpaid breaks, it should be an hour. The shifts should only be 8.25 hours long a day


length of breaks .... its having the time to take them  ;D ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: 26-05-21, 09:00AM by Nomad »

VladPutin

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Re: Managers Unpaid Hours Worked
« Reply #24 on: 27-05-21, 06:39AM »
I always assumed you just took your breaks whenever a wagon turned up to be tipped at the back door. Since every manager disappears as soon as that happens. ;)