verylittlehelps

Very Little Helps => Stores => Topic started by: OpShunned on 22-03-17, 05:49PM

Title: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 22-03-17, 05:49PM
I've emailed Leigh day and been in touch with Tom Hewitt (Employment Law Solicitor)

[my email]

Hi there,

I've been closely following the recent claims made by workers at both Asda and Sainsburys regarding comparative roles between their stores and distribution centres. I am led to believe that Asda (female) claimants have been given the green light to proceed with their claim. Naturally, and, as has been pointed out there must be a case for male counterparts to pursue the same direction.

We' at T**** may be in the the same situation we believe, given the nature of duties at our stores compared to those at our distribution centres. Some colleagues might be reluctant to pursue a claim preferring to wait until the Asda judgement is settled (although this could take a while from what I can gather)  although it has been explained that no victimisation can take place as a result of any claim made regarding Equal pay. The other thing is is that Leigh day are not going to approach 'us' to make a claim so it is down to 'us' to approach yourselves.

Can you provide me with some general advice on how to start the ball rolling please?

Is it ok to forward your number on to colleagues who work in store?

Many thanks

---------------------------

[Reply]

Yes, of course – if that is preferable.

Hi,

My number is 020 7650 1182 if you are available to have a short discussion with me?

Kind regards,

Tom

Tom Hewitt, Solicitor, Employment
Leigh Day Priory House, 25 St John's Lane, London EC1M 4LB
Tel: 020 7650 1200 Fax: 020 7253 4433 DX 53326 Clerkenwell
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The guy said it's ok for any store colleague to give him a call on 020 7650 1182.

Feel free to call him if you want to make a tentative enquiry.

Good luck to all if something comes of it! If not, at least an attempt was made!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Arizonarugby on 22-03-17, 06:44PM
What have you got to lose by claiming , yes at the moment it is the female staff that would have to persue the claim (and be potentially awarded up to 6 years back pay) but Tesco would have to pay match for male and if the union was worth any salt they would negotiate a compromise payment.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 22-03-17, 08:13PM
union.......negotiate a compromise payment
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D .......s***......just let me recover. ;D ;D ;D ..........(a few hours later).. ;D ;D :D :D :D :) :) ...phew.....that hurts......ow my stomach's aching...... that was funny.....  .F that. Id rather take my chances with a judge (who works as a part time PM for tesco).
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Princess2016 on 23-03-17, 10:14AM
How much do our colleagues in DC get paid an hour? And do DC have team leaders? If so, what is their pay rate per hour? Did they previously have TLs? Asking as I used to be a TL so would they match pay on that role? Or is it just CA roles?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Arizonarugby on 23-03-17, 10:45AM
The pay at each DC differers slightly (another great innovation courtesy of our union) ,  but at my DC all employees are paid the same rate which is £9.33 per hour plus premiums for weekend working £2.33, night premium £2.33 OT £11.66 with the average salary at the depot circa £20k

There currently are no Team Leaders, but there will shortly be Service Coordinators who will get an extra £6 a week (on top of the above rates )
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 23-03-17, 11:53AM
So what's that- around £1.70 - £2 per hour more than a GA gets in store, working the day shift?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 23-03-17, 03:48PM
I said it over the SL roles, why would anyone put themselves through the stress level that will be thrown onto them for very little more than a regular staff member would get?
These Shift Leaders/ Service Coordinators (depending on area) are little more than seriously underpaid managers. I know the SL's  in my old Metro are on around £19k for a role that someone on £21k -£23k basic, used to do.

Some people must have a screw loose to do that role.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: snowyowl on 23-03-17, 04:15PM
At the depot I work I think they are going to find it very difficult to fill these positions. There are plenty of employees with a "screw loose" but very few with the capability showing any interest.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 23-03-17, 04:19PM
@ Snowyowl

Hence why it's a doomed system.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: snowyowl on 23-03-17, 04:38PM
I'm actually looking forward to witnessing the shambles that lies ahead, I do love a good b*lls up.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 23-03-17, 05:23PM
Contact details for Tom Hewitt

tel. 020 7650 1182  (or email)  THewitt@leighday.co.uk


Take it whichever way you which but these are some points made on the video below regarding other claims against certain retailes?

https://www.leighday.co.uk/Asserting-your-rights/Equal-pay-claims (https://www.leighday.co.uk/Asserting-your-rights/Equal-pay-claims)

Leigh day have been advised by their barristers that 'the claim is strong'

'Women make a claim against the men in the Distribution Centres, if they're successful then men can compare themselves to those that have already won.'


'There are two parts to the remedy in this case. We are asking for back pay for the years you have worked at '''' and we're also asking for a pay rise in the future. A***aren't legally bound to do either.

BACK PAY it's likely that ONLY THOSE BRINGING A CLAIM will receive BACK PAY'

Contact details for Tom Hewitt

tel. 020 7650 1182  (or email)  THewitt@leighday.co.uk
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: mardy on 23-03-17, 09:45PM
I can see the initial take up of the podium monkey jobs doing quite well, but as already said once the realization that they'll be doing a £30k managers job for £6 per week hits home, they'll soon change their minds.Just look at the amount of options failures.
As for store colleagues earning the same as DC colleagues, we keep our jobs and are mismanaged in our roles through performance percentage, i cant see how that would work in a store. BUTGood luck anyway
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 24-03-17, 02:18AM
Quote from: snowyowl on 23-03-17, 04:38PM
I'm actually looking forward to witnessing the shambles that lies ahead, I do love a good b*lls up.  ;D ;D ;D

I completely agree, it is shambolic in the stores I have seen it in so far, god help all when's it's rolled out across the board.

@mardy

They have tried using unofficial "targets" in my last store, the rediculous 30 minute rule per cage and stuff like that. A system like they use in Distribution just wouldn't fit, so I think there's no chance of a 'normalising' between the two.
And it sounds like both DC and stores are going through the same hell  as to having underpaid (and probably inexperienced ) management riles driven into it. A recipe for disaster in my opinion.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 24-03-17, 10:48AM
Bumped to the top for those who may be interested in pursuing a No-win - no fee -claim against T---- for Equal pay going back 6 years. It mirrors the existing claim against A**A that Leigh Day solicitors have brought against that retailer (and also Sainsburys). Please try to keep this thread dedicated to the topic and not to lamentations of how tough it is to work in Distribution  ;)

Let's get this issue distributed to as many store colleagues as possible?

(Leigh day have been advised by their barristers that 'the claim against As** is strong')

'Women make a claim against the men in the Distribution Centres, if they're successful then men can compare themselves to those that have already won.'


BACK PAY: it's likely that ONLY THOSE BRINGING A CLAIM will receive BACK PAY'

[some background in a video below]
https://www.leighday.co.uk/Asserting-your-rights/Equal-pay-claims (https://www.leighday.co.uk/Asserting-your-rights/Equal-pay-claims)

Contact details for Tom Hewitt

tel. 020 7650 1182  (or email)  THewitt@leighday.co.uk

The guy said it's ok for any store colleague to give him a call on 020 7650 1182.

Feel free to call him if you want to make a tentative enquiry.

Good luck to all if something comes of it! If not, at least an attempt was made!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 26-03-17, 09:17PM
Bumped for perusal and any potential interest.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 27-03-17, 07:34AM
Happy Monday
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 27-03-17, 07:07PM
Opshunned, no need to bump this thread, I for one am watching this situation with great interest and I along with many others (i am sure) will act when the moment is right for me/them. So don't be disheartened at this stage. You are not being ignored, so don't let frustration creep in yet.

As I have said before it may be worth starting a petition along the lines of 'equal pay at tesco' I would imagine it would get a good response, and would serve as an excellent communication tool if/when required. eg the person who started the 'premiums' petition can immediately at any time contact close to 80,000 people via their petition. Imagine the coordinated power that could be wielded if a similar petition re the equal pay issue where ready and waiting when the time came for a mass claim. Now that would be collective bargaining at its purest. :thumbup:

So now might be the time to lay some ground work, just a thought :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 30-03-17, 08:00PM
****** Bumped for shi** and giggles *****

Good luck to those brave enough to 'have a go' :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Contact details for Tom Hewitt

tel. 020 7650 1182  (or email)  THewitt@leighday.co.uk

The guy said it's ok for any store colleague to give him a call on 020 7650 1182.

Feel free to call him if you want to make a tentative enquiry.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: spike_pkh on 30-03-17, 09:41PM
Not sure if this is related but our day managers in my store have been asked to start clocking to ensure they are not working too many hours and are being asked to take extra time back as time in lieu. Our night managers have not been asked to do this and they always work extra hours. Is there any "official" brief for this?

They were told the reason for this is managers in other stores have tried (and succeeded) suing tesco due to working extra hours each week
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 30-03-17, 09:57PM
I can imagine in extreme cases that the minimum wage may become an issue.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 02-04-17, 08:27PM
Spread the word to those that may be about to be scrap-heaped so that Drastic can buy Booker, Baker and any candletrick maker.

Contact details for Tom Hewitt

tel. 020 7650 1182  (or email)  THewitt@leighday.co.uk

The guy said it's ok for any store colleague to give him a call on 020 7650 1182.

Feel free to call him if you want to make a tentative enquiry.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Redshoes on 03-04-17, 07:25AM
Quote from: spike_pkh on 30-03-17, 09:41PM
Not sure if this is related but our day managers in my store have been asked to start clocking to ensure they are not working too many hours and are being asked to take extra time back as time in lieu. Our night managers have not been asked to do this and they always work extra hours. Is there any "official" brief for this?

They were told the reason for this is managers in other stores have tried (and succeeded) suing tesco due to working extra hours each week

All managers should clock anyway. I have worked in three stores in the area and all have signs up on staff doors reminding colleagues and managers to clock, signs are not new.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 03-04-17, 06:36PM
@Opshunned

Are ex-employees also allowed to claim any back-pay involving the discrimination suit :question: :question: If successful of course.  (-*-)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 03-04-17, 06:49PM
This is an extract from leigh -Day's website concerning Equal pay (promising?)


Q: if I am being paid unlawfully how do I make a claim?

There are strict procedures and time limits which must be met if your claim is to succeed. 

The Employment Tribunal time limits state that in general, you must present a claim to the Employment Tribunal within 6 months of the employment ending or a change in contract. Before presenting a claim you must complete an Employment Tribunal: Early Conciliation notification form.

If you have left work or changed jobs more than 6 months ago, you can now as a result of the successful judgment in Abdulla v Birmingham City Council present a claim in the civil courts for breach of contract within 6 years of the employment ending or a change in contract.

Q: how far back can I claim

Equal pay law only allows you to claim back for any employment you carried out in the 6 years before your claim being presented to an Employment Tribunal or Court.
https://www.leighday.co.uk/Asserting-your-rights/Equal-pay-claims/FAQs-for-equal-pay-claims (https://www.leighday.co.uk/Asserting-your-rights/Equal-pay-claims/FAQs-for-equal-pay-claims)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 03-04-17, 06:59PM
Wonderful info, opens the doors to a lot more interested parties.'

I see the following; 'where you employed by tesco in the last 6 years? If so, you may be entitled to make a claim for lost pay'.

Sounds like an excellent band-wagon to me.


I would urge you or somebody else to start a simple petition on change.org about this 'discrimination' issue, making it as non-technical as possible so that joe public can get involved too. Lets have it out in the open.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 03-04-17, 07:12PM
Especially with the company binning the minnions here there and everywhere  >:(

Where's Claden and his Petition machinery?

one might look at it this way. perhaps one's been underpaid, maybe at £1 an hour for 6 years so they potentially owe me:

36 hours (FTime)--- £36 x 52 weeks x 6 years = £11, 232

That's a lot of dough worth inquiring about???
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 10-04-17, 08:58PM
With the company expected to return buoyant figures why not try and gab some of the sweat blood and tears back over the past six years:

Contact details for Tom Hewitt

tel. 020 7650 1182  (or email)  THewitt@leighday.co.uk

The guy said it's ok for any store colleague to give him a call on 020 7650 1182.

Feel free to call him if you want to make a tentative enquiry.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Stencho on 11-04-17, 09:59AM
really need to know how the figure is calculated. and we should each receive written notification of any payment into your bank account.
have Tesco been in breach of contract by underpaying staff?
the bit in the letter saying most people will receive up to £40 makes you think you are getting a lot more when they tell you over the phone, the amount you are getting? 
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 22-04-17, 06:16PM
Bumped to the top for those who may be interested in pursuing a No-win - no fee -claim against T---- for Equal pay going back 6 years. It mirrors the existing claim against A**A that Leigh Day solicitors have brought against that retailer (and also Sainsburys). Please try to keep this thread dedicated to the topic and not to lamentations of how tough it is to work in Distribution  ;)

Let's get this issue distributed to as many store colleagues as possible?

(Leigh day have been advised by their barristers that 'the claim against As** is strong')

'Women make a claim against the men in the Distribution Centres, if they're successful then men can compare themselves to those that have already won.'

BACK PAY: it's likely that ONLY THOSE BRINGING A CLAIM will receive BACK PAY'

[some background in a video below]
https://www.leighday.co.uk/Asserting-your-rights/Equal-pay-claims (https://www.leighday.co.uk/Asserting-your-rights/Equal-pay-claims)

Contact details for Tom Hewitt

tel. 020 7650 1182  (or email)  THewitt@leighday.co.uk

The guy said it's ok for any store colleague to give him a call on 020 7650 1182.

Feel free to call him if you want to make a tentative enquiry.

Good luck to all if something comes of it! If not, at least an attempt was made!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 24-04-17, 07:33AM
Here's the  Employment Court's Preliminary Hearing judgement, in the case of:

Ms Brierley (asda worker/claimant) versus Asda (Respondent)

June 2016

Reserved Judgement

The claims are not dismissed. Employees at Asda stores may use employees at Asda depots as Comparators.


It's long winded but highlights the similarities between Stores and Distribution, detailing far more than your basic, are the  work tasks fundamentally different in nature due to any physical aspects. It also highlights that the judge (Tom Ryan an Employment Judge) was keen to incorporate EU laws to act as Gateways for UK worker's claims.

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/brierly-v-asda.pdf (https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/brierly-v-asda.pdf)

-----------------------
Any similarities?



Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 24-04-17, 09:10PM
@OpShunned  :thumbup: :thumbup:

thanks for the link, it is a very interesting read, although so far I have only read half of it (a bit too close to bed-time for EU Law me-thinks  ;) ).

highlights so far for me include: (for a good laugh).


para 112 (pg 20 to 21) is pretty damning.

para 121.4 (pg 22)

para 121.5
para 121.6

and para's 122 through to 127 (absolutely incompetent or worse) Can you imagine what the Tesco case would pan out like, given the culture of integrity and the absolute surrender to all that is transparent that we have here at tesco. (it just doesn't bare thinking about) ;D

just thought of a book title for a history of tesco '50 shades of transparency' working title '50 shades of 5h!te'.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 25-04-17, 07:34AM
Yes it is Optout.

Company emails suggest that Asda were concerned about future Equal Pay issues.

I noticed that Distribution employees were often transferred temporarily to stores during quiet times and this created the issue above.

Asda pin a lot of their hopes on the issue of pay terms and conditions at separate locations?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 25-04-17, 07:09PM
can you imagine the emails that are floating around the tesco management/executive about this at the moment. I would imagine that one of those emails contains words to the following effect, 'DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES SEND ANY EMAILS OR TEXTS REGARDING EQUAL PAY'.

Not to mention the amount of leaked information that will probably be given out by disgruntled PMs and DMs and CMs and half of the recently upset off distribution colleagues....(bloody hell the list is endless). I think that Dip5h!t and Pratt are at their industrial strength shredding machines at this very moment, grabbing all of those PMs, DMs and CMs and feeding them by their ankles into those freshly sharpened blades, in a vain attempt to make certain nothing gets out. :D


Just some advice for Dip5h!t and Pratt; getting the cat back into the bag is much more difficult when there are thousands of the buggin things to catch. :D :D

And knowing those two they would probably use a 5p bag to cut costs.

good luck with that :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 01-05-17, 11:44AM
Has anyone here, or heard of anyone that may have made contact with Leigh Day/Tom Hewitt?

I'm thinking of putting up a petition on Change.org so if you have any templates in mind just email me your ideas if you want to. Let's put the wind up these buggers eh!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 01-05-17, 04:34PM
You set the petition up, and I will be within the first 100 to sign it. I think your own judgement re style of petition will be pretty competent taking into account the media successes that you have had in the past. You are the person I would be asking for advice about that stuff. :thumbup:

I plan on taking part in any action, when I can get lost in a bit of a crowd. And I am sure (would hope) that there are many others who feel the same.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 02-05-17, 06:15PM
Optout, canI pm you with what I've knocked up.

Any advice, additions would be gratefully accepted. With your help we can get it rolling  :)

I did try to pm you but I was blocked haha
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 02-05-17, 06:34PM
sure PM away.

(just changed the settings on my PMs) :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 02-05-17, 06:42PM
coolio.

sent.

anyone else want to send suggestions then please feel free to do so.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 02-05-17, 07:19PM
received  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 02-05-17, 08:10PM
Quote from: OpShunned on 02-05-17, 06:15PM
Optout, canI pm you with what I've knocked up.

Any advice, additions would be gratefully accepted. With your help we can get it rolling  :)

I did try to pm you but I was blocked haha

"Rolling"

Pilot it instead!  :)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 05-05-17, 07:50AM
Quote from: optout on 02-05-17, 07:19PM
received  :thumbup:

Any progress?
:)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 05-05-17, 08:50PM
Haven't had a good chance to think about it.

My immediate impressions are/were;

the way you have made what could have been a complicated issue readable is really good.

one question I have is, is this petition intended as a direct portal to Leigh Day. or as a petition to get bums on seats behind the main issue first?

when thinking about this issue sometime ago when you first mentioned it I envisioned that it would take the following strategy;

1)start petition to raise as much awareness as possible (including outside interest) and if possible media interest.

Whether this would take the form of Equal pay for women in tesco OR Equal pay for equal work etc would depend on which approach you felt would garner the most public and/or media interest.

2) when petition was heavily enough supported, use the petition mechanism, by which I  mean, when a person signs that petition, you can automatically update them via their email [at the same time] of the latest news re the petition including sending  information re legal action (giving Leigh Day details).


I think that you may be going down a similar route to 'the petition to end the partnership' petition. And as we have seen this has not been as popular as for example Claden's petition, mainly I feel (due to constructive feedback from this site) because the partnership petition was too narrow and too technical in the way I put it across to get bums on seats. (and frankly looking at it now a bit long winded).

the above are just a few rushed thoughts.

What is your step by step strategy for the way you would like the petition to work?

Is it as a direct portal to Leigh Day. In one big step.

Or is it the more methodical approach of publicity for the issue first, then the detail of action?

I think this will have a big bearing on the construction of the petition. :thumbup:


Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 31-05-17, 07:19AM
Contact details for Tom Hewitt

tel. 020 7650 1182  (or email)  THewitt@leighday.co.uk

The guy said it's ok for any store colleague to give him a call on 020 7650 1182.

Feel free to call him if you want to make a tentative enquiry.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 28-06-17, 07:26AM
Has anyone contacted Tom Hewitt yet?

Is anyone suitably peed off enough to contact him given the recent pay rise book of jokes?

Nothing to lose guys  :)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 28-06-17, 10:35PM
Bumped for sh**s and giggles , again
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: darklighter on 28-06-17, 10:50PM
If the national living wage goes up to £8.05 in April 2018, how can Stressco pay £8.02 until July 2018?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: his scots tie on 28-06-17, 11:00PM
They will have to pay £8.05 if thats what it goes up to.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: darklighter on 28-06-17, 11:28PM
QuoteThe first hop in pay is set to take place on April 2017, whereby the current rate of £7.20 will increase to £7.50 an hour. In 2018 you'll need to pay staff £8.05, followed by a £8.50 hourly rate in 2019. As a result of this, some one million workers will directly receive a pay rise.

Source:http://realbusiness.co.uk/current-affairs/2017/02/01/difference-between-national-living-wage-national-minimum-wage/ (http://realbusiness.co.uk/current-affairs/2017/02/01/difference-between-national-living-wage-national-minimum-wage/)

Stressco's booklet says that the rise from £8.02 to £8.18 will occur from the 1st July 2018 and according to that website, from April 2018, the minimum wage will be £8.05.

So if all information is correct then we will be paid below minimum wage for 3 months which I thought was illegal?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Fair play on 28-06-17, 11:48PM
Yep I have did so when we lost double time . Got nothing to lose and hopefully lots to gain
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Morris999 on 29-06-17, 12:24AM
The NLW for 2018 hasn't been decided on yet!
It's normally published around late October/early November.
However that being said it's being predicted from various sources to be between £7.70 and £8.05!
Now if it is in the higher range predictions of over £8.02 then Tesco will have to meet that when it comes into force, which is normally in April!
However most sources are predicting it to be less than £8.02!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 31-08-17, 07:04PM
UPDATE
31ST AUG 2017

Another victory for workers in their fight for equal pay against Asda

https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/News-2017/August-2017/Another-victory-for-workers-in-their-fight-for-equ (https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/News-2017/August-2017/Another-victory-for-workers-in-their-fight-for-equ)


The Employment Appeal Tribunal has ruled today that Asda has been unsuccessful in another attempt to stop over 10,000 equal pay claims against them from proceeding.

31 August 2017

Solicitors from law firm Leigh Day have been working with the GMB union in bringing this historic equal pay case for GMB members.

In October 2016 the claimants won the first part of their equal pay claim against supermarket giant Asda – the tribunal concluded that workers in Asda's shops, who are mainly women, could compare themselves to male workers in Asda's distribution centres.

Asda had argued that because different departments ran the shops and the distribution centres, and as there were different methods for setting pay, that no comparison was possible.

In the October judgment the employment tribunal dismissed Asda's claims and agreed with the claimants that both sets of workers were employed by Asda and that the pay for all workers was controlled by Asda's executive board, and overseen by their parent company Wal-Mart.

Asda appealed the tribunal's October decision on ten different grounds. All were unsuccessful.

The Honourable Mr Justice Kerr concluded today that the employment tribunal had been correct in saying that shop workers could compare to the distribution workers:

"I find no lack of rationality or perversity in the judge's reasoning [...] the judge's overall conclusion that the terms were common in the statutory sense is not impeachable."


Chris Benson, Head of the Employment and Discrimination Department at Leigh Day, said:

"Asda continues to appeal every point available to them, rather than focusing on paying men in the distribution centres and women in the stores equally, but judges at every level have been adamant that the claims can continue.

"After yet another defeat, we hope that Asda take this opportunity to reflect on the merits of the claims, and concentrate on why they pay men more than women for jobs of equal value, rather than trying to stop the claims going ahead at all."

Tim Roache, GMB General Secretary, said:

"GMB look forward to Asda management sitting down and finding a sensible negotiated solution to recognising that our female members in stores should be paid and valued as equal to the men.

"Instead of wasting money on litigation, we ask Asda to be a market leader in solving this wide ranging industry problem."

Asda have indicated that they will seek permission to appeal the decision again.

If the shop workers are ultimately successful in their claims Asda are likely to have to review the pay of tens of thousands of staff who may have been paid unlawfully.

LINK TO PETITION BELOW
http://www.verylittlehelps.com/index.php?topic=15986.0 (http://www.verylittlehelps.com/index.php?topic=15986.0)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 31-08-17, 08:23PM
Thanks for the Update :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 31-08-17, 09:20PM
Tim Roache, GMB General Secretary, said:

"GMB look forward to Asda management sitting down and finding a sensible negotiated solution to recognising that our female members in stores should be paid and valued as equal to the men.

"Instead of wasting money on litigation, we ask Asda to be a market leader in solving this wide ranging industry problem."

Asda have indicated that they will seek permission to appeal the decision again.

=================================================

In other news:

John Hairnet Generally absent Secretary when it really matters  (USDAW) said,

"Ooh, Dave took me out for a walk today and kicked me in the b ollocks when I asked whether Tesco employees could bring a similar case."

Tesco have indicated that they will seek permission to keep pulling the wool over the minnion's eyes. Hairnet barked his resistance but Dave took all his teeth out with a rusty pliers threatening that Matt the T watt would rip his tongue out if threatened the Partnership/unholy alliance.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 01-09-17, 05:21AM
Quote from: Arizonarugby on 23-03-17, 10:45AM
The pay at each DC differers slightly (another great innovation courtesy of our union) ,  but at my DC all employees are paid the same rate which is £9.33 per hour plus premiums for weekend working £2.33, night premium £2.33 OT £11.66 with the average salary at the depot circa £20k

There currently are no Team Leaders, but there will shortly be Service Coordinators who will get an extra £6 a week (on top of the above rates )

Can you tell us what extra duties the 6 quid extra is supposed to cover, it seems a meagre amount to expect anything to be honest.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 01-09-17, 09:56PM
How brave were these 4 Sainsbury females?

Well done to them  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
-------------



Sainsbury's instructs TLT to defend equal pay claim by Leigh Day
By Tabby Kinder   14 July 2015 00:03
Sainsbury's has instructed TLT to defend it in an equal pay battle brought by four female shopfloor workers.

The claimants, represented by Leigh Day, claim they are paid less than men to do equally valuable jobs at the supermarket.

Leigh Day lawyer Michael Newman, working on the claim, said it believed the Sainsbury's action could be joined by many more female staff members and could be as "big as the Asda case". Newman is in the process of setting up a group register for claimants.

The firm is currently working on a colosssal equal pay claim against Asda due to go to trial in 2016 (23 March 2015).

A preliminary hearing in the Sainsbury's case was held at an employment tribunal in Birmingham on Friday (10 July). Sainsbury's requested at the hearing that the claim be stayed until the conclusion of the Asda case, but the request was denied. Such a move would have resulted in a stay on the claim of likely more than five years.  >:D

TLT employment partner Mark McQuillan has instructed 11KBW's Sean Jones QC for Sainsbury's.

Leigh Day partner Chris Benson is leading the claims against both Asda and Sainsbury's, instructing Outer Temple Chambers' Andrew Short QC on both.

The next case management conference on the Sainsbury's claim is scheduled for October. Leigh Day is understood to have requested various information from the supermarket giant in relation to job titles and pay.

Asda has drafted in Herbert Smith Freehills, Gibson Dunn & Crutcher and Pinsent Masons to defend it in a claim brought by around 4,000 shopfloor staff in what is expected to be one of the most expensive equal pay cases ever brought in the UK.

Leigh Day said around 20,000 workers contacted the firm after reading about the Asda case.

Claimants could be entitled to six years' back pay for the difference in earnings should they win against the retailers due to rules brought in following a 2012 equal pay claim, which extended the time limit for claims from six months after leaving the company to six years.

Sainsbury's faced a similar case in 1989 brought by a woman working in its Lewisham store in south London. The ruling found that the roles of warehouse men and shopfloor workers were consistent at the supermarket meaning pay should be equal.

Leigh Day brought a successful equal pay claim against Birmingham City Council in 2012 (24 October 2012). The ruling in the Supreme Court led to the council shelling out around £1bn to settle claims brought by tens of thousands of female employees. It also led to the change in time limit legislation for claims named the "biggest change to equal pay legislation" since it was introduced in 1970.

https://www.thelawyer.com/issues/online-july-2015/sainsburys-instructs-tlt-to-defend-equal-pay-claim-by-leigh-day-2/ (https://www.thelawyer.com/issues/online-july-2015/sainsburys-instructs-tlt-to-defend-equal-pay-claim-by-leigh-day-2/)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 01-09-17, 10:50PM
What I wonder, if distribution pay is so great and the jobs are so comparable (according to the claimants anyway) why isn't there a mass exodus of shop workers going from retail to distribution?

I mean from reading stories on here, it seems distribution centres struggle to get/maintain enough staff.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 01-09-17, 11:21PM
That's a good point well made Alf. Of course, when there is /if there is parity between codes, I feel certain that a mass exodus from Distribution to stores will commence. I mean to say from hearing anecdotal accounts from distribution staff as to  the complex nature of warehouse work, allied to the tough physical demands, the rotational shift patterns and various other demanding 'stuff' I would envisage a stampeded to store?

..yet, are there jobs in store that consist of anything other than 11 hours or so?

...although store colleagues are already acutely aware of the ensuing carnage warehouse colleagues face when Drastic ties them up with Booker? The minimum wage by then will be £9 per hour which means working for Booker/Tesco for a few bob extra under a new regime will feel like hell.  Moving from store to warehouse will be like crawling down the barrel of a cannon  :o
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 02-09-17, 01:25AM
I certainty wouldn't work in a depo for the same money as retail.

But I wouldn't be so sure about retail being any better if this goes through, those massive payroll increases will need to come from somewhere.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 02-09-17, 05:30AM
I wouldnt work in one you are treated like a slave, my mate is a manager in one and the storys he tells me are unreal how they treat shop floor workers.

There is no wonder they have to ship boat loads of Polish, Lithuanian and any other eastern European person they can get their hands on over here to work.

The slave trade is alive and well...
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: cityboy on 02-09-17, 11:14AM
I will never have any support for this case as long as it is deemed an issue of sexual discrimination. If it was a matter of equal value to the company, they would have my sympathy and support, but to make it a gender issue is twisting the facts. There are a lot less distribution centres than stores, so location is a factor,( my nearest D.C. is 55 miles away ), I work a walk away, convenience. I reckon more men apply for, and stick to distribution. I also reckon more women apply for and stick to retail, ( I have no figures on this, perhaps somebody has?). I would say this is a choice thing, around your family structure. If there was a D.C. and a Tesco Extra a few minutes walk from each other, and both offered the same flexibility and opportunities they do now, I am sure in my mind the store would employ a higher percentage of women and the D.C. a higher percentage of men. If pay was equal, would the percentage of female workers in distribution rise to 50%?. Not a chance! If pay was equal, would male retail workers rise to 50%?. Not going to happen. To base this case on gender is ridiculous. To take your employer to court on the grounds of equal worth of job, has some grounds. To take your employer to court on what suits you and your family, and crying 'sexism' without any grounds that the pay difference does not apply equally to men and women is sexist in itself.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 02-09-17, 03:33PM
Is it not the case that jobs of equal worth should attract equal pay, it is then up to all persons to decide if the job is desirable & suitable for them and the companies to then decide if those persons are able to perform their duties safely and efficiently.   
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: cityboy on 02-09-17, 05:57PM
I agree, Nomad, so gender is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 02-09-17, 07:07PM
I'm not bothered if Leigh Day drag a 3 headed Martian into court citing inter-galactic discrimination as long as they win the case. Leigh day have already stated that men, camels and martians will be able to piggyback the claim.

Does it really matter who initially benefits, if EVERYONE in store benefits ultimately?

Why are Distribution dinosaurs so bothered when Drastic Dave is gonna stiff them in the coming months/years?

If equal/comparable work is worth the same rate of pay, as deemed by the law courts, it doesn't matter what gender you are as long as the whole workforce benefits?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 02-09-17, 07:47PM
"if EVERYONE in store benefits ultimately?"

At what cost?

Look how retailers have funded the rising wage costs so far, cutting hours where they can, mass redundancies where they can't, or TUPE'ing people to other companies, benefit cuts, premium cuts including night premiums and Sunday premiums.

What is find amazing, certain posters here (I can't recall if you are included or not) bemoaned the Tesco pay rises in retail over these past couple of years, as they were funded through cuts to night shift premiums and Sunday premiums. In other words they f***ed overall certain staff to appease other staff.

Do they think the exact same thing won't happen to distribution workers? Someone mentioned they get weekend premiums and night shift premiums, they may have to say goodbye to them.

There isn't going to be some fairytale ending where we all get paid more with no consequences.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 02-09-17, 07:59PM
Distribution runs big time on nights. Take away night premiums staff will leave and they cannot get enough staff now. So it will never happen.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 02-09-17, 08:01PM
Distribution colleagues might as well face the future:

Dave will have your premiums off them just like he has done elsewhere?

It's over! The company has changed irrevocably whether you or I can accept it.

As far as Drastic is concerned, resistance is futile. He has USDAW on a leash which means he has its members cornered.

Why not grab what you can by force than end up on minimum wage anyway. He's not going to save another billion by pussyfooting around departments. He goes in swiftly for the kill. It will be brutal and merciless.

John Hairnet will be the only beneficiary in real terms  ???

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 02-09-17, 08:04PM
Quote from: Welsh-Hugh on 02-09-17, 07:59PM
Distribution runs big time on nights. Take away night premiums staff will leave and they cannot get enough staff now. So it will never happen.

Rubbish! The same argument was made about removing night-fill. Stores still running?

Do you believe Alan Stewart hasn't number crunched scenarios, some are based on Booker's distribution sites.

Get real.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 02-09-17, 08:23PM
Who needs drastic, when we have opshunned, nobly sacrificing others for potential personal gain, under the guise of "it'll happen anyway".

Quote from: Welsh-Hugh on 02-09-17, 07:59PM
Distribution runs big time on nights. Take away night premiums staff will leave and they cannot get enough staff now. So it will never happen.

I do agree, which is why I think this equal pay claim nonsense, is nonsense.
Distribution need higher rates of pay (and premiums) to attract workers, as it clear they struggle to maintain staff levels, retail do not, our last recruitment drive in-store resulted in far more applicants than there were jobs.

There will be major consequences if this goes through, and not just for Asda and Tesco, consider how many retailers operate their own distribution.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 02-09-17, 08:36PM
Lovin' it Alf. You're a dinosaur of the finest quality?

I find it staggering to discover your revelation that supply outstripped demand during the latest Store's recruitment drive. I can picture those hoards banging down the barriers in search of an eleven hour contract in order they can secure their futures  ;D ;D ;D

Get real and sign the petition!

Alf for one and Alf together!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 02-09-17, 09:03PM
So anyone who supports staff in certain areas of a business, having better rates of pay, is now a dinosaur?

Bizarre, but good to know.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/26/uk-jobs-vacancies_n_5029260.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/26/uk-jobs-vacancies_n_5029260.html)
Admittedly, it's a few years old now, and undoubtedly they are extreme examples, but yes we had far more applicants than positions. There's a reason Tesco use assessment centres to batch interview applicants.


Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 02-09-17, 09:07PM
You sound like another poster on here wink wink  8-)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 02-09-17, 09:08PM
I've emailed Leigh day and been in touch with Tom Hewitt (Employment Law Solicitor)

[my email]

Hi there,

I've been closely following the recent claims made by workers at both Asda and Sainsburys regarding comparative roles between their stores and distribution centres. I am led to believe that Asda (female) claimants have been given the green light to proceed with their claim. Naturally, and, as has been pointed out there must be a case for male counterparts to pursue the same direction.

We' at T**** may be in the the same situation we believe, given the nature of duties at our stores compared to those at our distribution centres. Some colleagues might be reluctant to pursue a claim preferring to wait until the Asda judgement is settled (although this could take a while from what I can gather)  although it has been explained that no victimisation can take place as a result of any claim made regarding Equal pay. The other thing is is that Leigh day are not going to approach 'us' to make a claim so it is down to 'us' to approach yourselves.

Can you provide me with some general advice on how to start the ball rolling please?

Is it ok to forward your number on to colleagues who work in store?

Many thanks
---------------------------

[Reply]

Yes, of course – if that is preferable.

Hi,

My number is 020 7650 1182 if you are available to have a short discussion with me?

Kind regards,

Tom

Tom Hewitt, Solicitor, Employment
Leigh Day Priory House, 25 St John's Lane, London EC1M 4LB
Tel: 020 7650 1200 Fax: 020 7253 4433 DX 53326 Clerkenwell
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The guy said it's ok for any store colleague to give him a call on 020 7650 1182.

Feel free to call him if you want to make a tentative enquiry.

Good luck to all if something comes of it! If not, at least an attempt was made!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OvaSees on 02-09-17, 10:03PM
I have no issue with the case or its merit, but I do have concerns about the potential implications - which is where I agree with alf. This isn't a pop at the case or at OpShunned ;) but I'm not sure many people have grasped the longer term implications.

This wil undoubtably lead to a situation where rates of pay will have to be normalised or harmonised across different roles and functions - either store colleagues will get big rises to catch up with those in DCs (possibly at the cost of another element of their pay package), and/or DC colleagues will receive little or no pay rises (or erosion of some element of their pack package) until store colleagues pay rates catch up, with both rates of pay eventually matching. Whatever the outcome, all Tesco will do is rob Peter to pay Paul - it must all be funded from the same pot. If anyone seriously thinks that the company will simply throw more money into payroll to fund an increase to achieve parity across stores and DCs they are living in a dream land.

Whatever happens, if parity between stores and DCs pay rates is indeed achieved, then there will be no incentive or reason to do a different role in a different function for which you may or may not be suited - and I guarantee this will not deliver equality of outcome in terms of the proportion of males/females working in either function. That will remain as it has always been, a matter of personal choice partially determined by geographical proximity to your chosen work location.

Whilst in stores we may end up getting a better hourly rate, my question is 'at what long term cost' - somebody somewhere is quite literally going to pay for this through removal or erosion of some other element of their pay package. It also sets a dangerous precedent, where will it end?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: trigger on 03-09-17, 03:59AM
just got in from the pub,stores pay,dc pay,whatever.were not givin up out t&c.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: cityboy on 03-09-17, 11:14AM
Openandhonest, what do you mean in regards to the previous post and this topic....what?.

[admin]Openandhonest's post has been deleted as it was way off topic. Nomad[/admin]
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 03-09-17, 05:35PM
Another issue with DCs that's different from stores. Correct me if im wrong but don't stores have same pay rates throughout the country? DCs pay are vastly different in every DC. No two DC's are the same on pay. Then each DC differs internally. New contracts versus old contracts etc etc. Whilst store staff moan about DC pay you have to think about the difference in store work and DC work. First off store staff stack shelves . Yes you may have so much to do in an allocated time. DC staff have pick rates. Loading rates. All monitored by arm mounted computers when staff are monitored 24-7. There there's the temperature working in a fridge every day in chilled. Massive temp changes throughout the year in ambient DCs. The working conditions are totally different. If store staff complain about DC wages so much they can always internal transfer from  store to DC. The DC I work in actively encourage staff to transfer to DC. It's easy to bash other parts of the company . Feel free to transfer to a DC and see how long you last. Then you will understand why they get paid more.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 03-09-17, 06:15PM
I think the moaning from store staff over DC pay on the lines that the DC's can at least have a say in their pay. The stores have absolutely none and are simply sold out by the union.

I'm sure most people would prefer some say rather than no say at all.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OvaSees on 03-09-17, 07:51PM
That's probably part of the cause of all of this pay disparity, but if that's the case people should be complaining to USDAW about how useless they are and how poorly they represent and protect their members interests compared to the unions in DCs - the differences in pay will in no small part be down to what each respective union has negotiated on behalf of its members over the years.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 03-09-17, 07:58PM
I don't think complaining  would make any difference, USDAW are Tesco's "recognised" union for a reason, because they will ignore their members.

Even if the were no USDAW  members in Tesco, it would still be the case.

The DC's right to be consulted on pay is a valuable  defence against the rampant wage/benefits erosion which Tesco are pursuing.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: trigger on 04-09-17, 12:31AM
Stores gave there vote up on pay years ago through apathy.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 04-09-17, 01:49AM
If I recall correctly (from a poster on here) the partnership came in to being around 1998.

20 odd years ago almost, I wonder what percentage of current staff were around at that time, I'd wager the majority weren't.
Consider this, Tesco employ a lot of teenagers, the partnership potentially pre-dates their birth by roughly 3 years.

So apathy may be accurate, but was the apathy due to current staff, or past staff?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 04-09-17, 06:18AM
This is why there should be a reballot to see if employees want to take back control .
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Twinkeltoes1 on 04-09-17, 02:45PM
Before 98 I think,  joined in 93 and as far as I can recall it was already in being.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Employee101 on 04-09-17, 05:22PM
Quote from: Nomad on 02-09-17, 03:33PM
Is it not the case that jobs of equal worth should attract equal pay, it is then up to all persons to decide if the job is desirable & suitable for them and the companies to then decide if those persons are able to perform their duties safely and efficiently.

Who decides what jobs, if any, are of 'equal worth'? Unless someone can work out the exact monetary value of a worker's output, and added value to a company's profits,  I do not see how it can be measured. A van driver, a warehouse operative, a shop floor team leader - all worthy jobs - but how is their output measured? I've had this argument with fellow employees at previous companies (not retail). All of them believed that their roles were as important/stressful/demanding as anyone elses, even though it was easily demonstrated that they were not.

It's a dangerous road to go down if the staff are allowed to choose what their job is worth and not the employer.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 04-09-17, 06:02PM
I have to be honest, today is the first I've heard about the Asda/Sainsbury's claims and my first thought was...'Females only'? 'Do male workers in store not exist'? To add to that, in all honesty I don't really think they should have a case at all. Distribution is a different job in a completely different location. What next, 'We deserve the same pay as those at head office'?

Anyway, what I really wanted to say is:

Whether I agree with the rights or wrongs of the case, if the women end up being successful, then surely their male counterparts success should be a formality. If that ends up being the case, then surely us at Tesco have a case to cite and we can all bring the same legal action? I've never lived my life on credit so I've missed out on all of the PPI payouts and stuff that loads of people seem to have been paid out on, so I would be 100% behind this and claiming for it given any sign of a green light. If this is my ship coming in (as an employee of easily over 10 years), I'll be building a massive lighthouse to show it the way home :)

To the guys keeping this in the limelight, don't be fooled by the seeming lack of support. There will be thousands ready and waiting to jump on board given a sniff of a case for us. I'm sure we're all just watching what is going on with beady eyes.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 04-09-17, 07:02PM
Thumbs up there Bazz  :D

It is awkward, difficult hard to quantify, qualify and whatever 'ify' you want to throw on the anvil but it's worth a shout.

If you throw a cage of groceries around a warehouse/shopfloor, put things on and take things off a shelf in a warehouse/shopfloor someone is going to ask for the tasks to be held up to a light for comparison.

One facet of the argument is where will the money come from to facilitate the pay increase. I ask, why is Drastic and his fellow robber baron hell bent on looking after shareholder share dividends at the expense of the boots on the ground. Do you ever hear them contemplating labelling colleagues as 'Partners' as other companies do? Should he not invest in his staff first?

The 'lack of support' as you call it is mainly coming from distribution colleagues who are yet to feel the full brunt of the cabal's long term aims. They care not for their colleagues  in store so it remains to be seen whether they attempt to garner pity when Drastic chops them off at the ankles when he brings Booker's distribution network on board.

When Dave Lewis and Alun Stewart walk off into the sunset with all our cash, will there be any regret that colleagues on the ground failed to get as much out of these bar stewards as they possibly could?

Is it 'nice/decent' of shop floor workers female/male/martian to accept their lot now or should they get as much as they can before the whole thing crumbles anyway?




Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 04-09-17, 07:29PM
My philosophy is : 'Get out of them what you can whilst you can'. If it wasn't for the fact that I'd been working for them for so long and hoping to get the redundancy boot one day, I'd be on my way by now probably. I'll stick around for the payout next year for cutting the Sunday premium though, then drop my Sunday shift somehow shortly afterwards. If these cases mentioned above are successful, there may be a chance of another few quid. Just gotta ride it out and put in a good honest shift in the mean-time. If I saw Tesco as a good honest employer where hard work was rewarded appropriately, I probably wouldn't think like this. However..........
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 04-09-17, 07:42PM
Quote from: OpShunned on 04-09-17, 07:02PM
The 'lack of support' as you call it is mainly coming from distribution colleagues who are yet to feel the full brunt of the cabal's long term aims.

You are woefully ignorant.

Ignoring the recent distribution centre closures, the 1000 odd redundancies, the ongoing management restructure, yeah apart from that, distribution has been totally untouched.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 04-09-17, 07:50PM
You have ignored the words 'full' and 'brunt'

Distribution, or at least the Tesco side of it will be decimated. Yes, only time will tell but I may remind you of it later  :( :(

Tesco Distribution will bear absolutely no appearance of that which currently prevails.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 04-09-17, 07:56PM
It may get worse in the future, so lets f*** them over now/sooner.

Your logic is outstanding.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 04-09-17, 08:32PM
Thank you. It sounds as if you are content to sit on the Titanic sun longer deck while the Robber barons manouvre the ice-berg into your path.

Yes it sounds selfish, but we need to grab it while we can otherwise the vast majority will end up on minimum wage working for an outfit which bears little resemblance to that which they work for now.

This cabal is evil!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 04-09-17, 09:19PM
Foolish propaganda is all that this thread has become, I suspect someone is overly bitter, the clue being in the profile name.

Yeah encourage a claim whilst prophesying ultimate doom, whilst not realising or delusionally dismissive of the fact that the ultimate cost of the claim will excelerate the impending doom, which then realistically turns any windfall gain into a compounding loss.

Brilliant strategy NOT.

And before someone calls me jack and says I'm alright, I have records and instances where Distribution have been butt f***ed with a red hot poker that spans 20 years.. where we received  little if any sympathy or support from retail.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 04-09-17, 09:28PM
Just for clarity I am store staff, not distribution.

Distribution may suffer with bookers merger (assuming it happens), but I'd rather not give Tesco more reason to make cuts to all areas, which is all this court case will achieve. There is not a chance in hell we (stores) will get what distribution get in terms of pay and premiums, it's utter fantasy.


Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 04-09-17, 09:29PM
Given Alf the rest of the night off have you Duracell ?wink wink

I'mAllrightjackism will always pervade a workforce so don't feel all that bad will you.

The red hot poker is back under the bellows and will be shoved even further up your Maypole soon enough. But good luck eh

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 04-09-17, 09:31PM
Quote from: alf on 04-09-17, 09:28PM
Just for clarity I am store staff, not distribution.

Distribution may suffer with bookers merger (assuming it happens), but I'd rather not give Tesco more reason to make cuts to all areas, which is all this court case will achieve. There is not a chance in hell we (stores) will get what distribution get in terms of pay and premiums, it's utter fantasy.

If you had worked in the coalmines, and you had that attitude about your colleagues not getting more out of their boss, you would have been taking your breaks with a f****ng steaming t*rd in your lunch box.

Pathetic!

Incidentally, it will be down to a judge to determine the outcome and not a company man like you lol

[admin]Please do not circumvent the profanity filter, nor 'flame' other members. Nomad[/admin]
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 04-09-17, 09:39PM
Quote from: Duracell on 04-09-17, 09:19PM
Foolish propaganda is all that this thread has become, I suspect someone is overly bitter, the clue being in the profile name.

Yeah encourage a claim whilst prophesying ultimate doom, whilst not realising or delusionally dismissive of the fact that the ultimate cost of the claim will excelerate the impending doom, which then realistically turns any windfall gain into a compounding loss.

Brilliant strategy NOT.

And before someone calls me jack and says I'm alright, I have records and instances where Distribution have been butt f***ed with a red hot poker that spans 20 years.. where we received  little if any sympathy or support from retail.

You can't blame people for thinking that even without a little windfall, their lot from Tesco will always be near to the minimum. Why wouldn't anyone in that situation look for a good pay-off even once, if it was worth it just for a while? A decent employer would make sure that their employees didn't have to go to lawyers to get a bit of extra money to make it worth their while to actually work to be able to live a decent life.
Quote from: alf on 04-09-17, 09:28PM
Just for clarity I am store staff, not distribution.

Distribution may suffer with bookers merger (assuming it happens), but I'd rather not give Tesco more reason to make cuts to all areas, which is all this court case will achieve. There is not a chance in hell we (stores) will get what distribution get in terms of pay and premiums, it's utter fantasy.


It's fantasy to me that female in-store workers could get the same wage (and back-pay) as distribution workers just because they brought a legal action....

But god damn, if they can get that, I'm going to get my bit too. If non-deserved free extra money is going around, I'm going to be at the front of the queue. It's not as if this is a great company where everyone looks out for each other etc. Just get yours whilst you can.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 04-09-17, 09:49PM
I have survived over 2 decades with the company. I have seen more than short sighted minds can possibly imagine.

Why would I feel bad? I have had many forms of restructure and am faced with more to come, long before any claim is dismissed. Delusional epiphanies will be set aside, being awarded the right to compare or scrutinise does not prove the equal value.

I am open minded to logic and reasoning, entertain me and explain how or by what method the equal value will be proven.

BarryZola.. only leavers stand any chance of benefit with that stance, if you are leaving good luck to you, if not.. your setting yourself up to fail.




Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 04-09-17, 09:58PM
Quote from: OpShunned on 04-09-17, 09:31PM
Quote from: alf on 04-09-17, 09:28PM
Just for clarity I am store staff, not distribution.

Distribution may suffer with bookers merger (assuming it happens), but I'd rather not give Tesco more reason to make cuts to all areas, which is all this court case will achieve. There is not a chance in hell we (stores) will get what distribution get in terms of pay and premiums, it's utter fantasy.

If you had worked in the coalmines, and you had that attitude about your colleagues not getting more out of their boss, you would have been taking your breaks with a f ucking steaming t*rd in your lunch box.

Pathetic!

Incidentally, it will be down to a judge to determine the outcome and not a company ar se wipe like you lol

Lol says the profile with arse in the title.

Even more pathetic when trying to be abusive. Ah well I guess sheep really aren't thinkers after all.

Please feel free to understand and explain what you're preaching, show the equal value, not decide, just at least reason the equal value !
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 04-09-17, 10:05PM
Goodnight Battery boy. Love you  :-* :-* :-*..I've emailed Leigh day and been in touch with Tom Hewitt (Employment Law Solicitor)

[my email]

Hi there,

I've been closely following the recent claims made by workers at both Asda and Sainsburys regarding comparative roles between their stores and distribution centres. I am led to believe that Asda (female) claimants have been given the green light to proceed with their claim. Naturally, and, as has been pointed out there must be a case for male counterparts to pursue the same direction.

We' at T**** may be in the the same situation we believe, given the nature of duties at our stores compared to those at our distribution centres. Some colleagues might be reluctant to pursue a claim preferring to wait until the Asda judgement is settled (although this could take a while from what I can gather)  although it has been explained that no victimisation can take place as a result of any claim made regarding Equal pay. The other thing is is that Leigh day are not going to approach 'us' to make a claim so it is down to 'us' to approach yourselves.

Can you provide me with some general advice on how to start the ball rolling please?

Is it ok to forward your number on to colleagues who work in store?

Many thanks
---------------------------

[Reply]

Yes, of course – if that is preferable.

Hi,

My number is 020 7650 1182 if you are available to have a short discussion with me?

Kind regards,

Tom

Tom Hewitt, Solicitor, Employment
Leigh Day Priory House, 25 St John's Lane, London EC1M 4LB
Tel: 020 7650 1200 Fax: 020 7253 4433 DX 53326 Clerkenwell
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The guy said it's ok for any store colleague to give him a call on 020 7650 1182.

Feel free to call him if you want to make a tentative enquiry.

Good luck to all if something comes of it! If not, at least an attempt was made!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 04-09-17, 10:06PM
Quote from: OpShunned on 04-09-17, 09:31PM

If you had worked in the coalmines, and you had that attitude about your colleagues not getting more out of their boss, you would have been taking your breaks with a f****ng steaming t*rd in your lunch box.

Pathetic!

Incidentally, it will be down to a judge to determine the outcome and not a company man like you lol

Jeez someone's getting a bit worked up.

This isn't difficult to understand, I'm perfectly happy to get more money or whatever, but not at the expense of others and/or my own work life. It's delusional to believe there won't be consequences, both sides will be shafted in order to meet in the middle.

Quote from: BarryZola on 04-09-17, 09:39PM
But god damn, if they can get that, I'm going to get my bit too. If non-deserved free extra money is going around, I'm going to be at the front of the queue. It's not as if this is a great company where everyone looks out for each other etc. Just get yours whilst you can.

I agree the court case is laughable, but it's not for any of us to decide.

But I'm looking at it from a practical standpoint, free money doesn't exist.
Tesco is the company who reduced Sundays premiums and night premiums to fund a pay rise. It stands to reason they will do the same, plus any other cost savings if they are to achieve having stores and distribution on the same pay and conditions.



Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 04-09-17, 10:25PM
Hello Duracell.

You said this: "BarryZola.. only leavers stand any chance of benefit with that stance, if you are leaving good luck to you, if not.. your setting yourself up to fail."

I'm not looking for an argument or to be clever, but what do you mean exactly by that? How am I setting myself up to fail? Or did you mean Tesco workers generally? The way I see it, I survive on my current wages and any extra bonuses that may come around are, well.....bonuses. I'm guessing I've probably not got the gist of what you were on about....?

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 06-09-17, 07:03AM
If Tesco can get the stores the same pay as distribution I would happily leave distribution and work in a store. No more 8 hour shifts working in a fridge. No windows. Howling refrigeration units.No arm mounted terminals monitoring me 24-7. Not worrying about getting pulled up for still time. Not worrying about getting run over by MHE equipment.Not having to worry about picking pallets of melons and oranges 7ft high. It must be bliss to work in a store for the same money. I cannot wait.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 06-09-17, 07:38AM
I would like to know how a judge who has probably never set foot never mind worked in a dc or worked in a store has the right to decide if the jobs are comparable.  I don't believe they are and I work in a store .
I think to describe working in a store for the same wage as "blliss" is pushing the point a little though we still do have customers to deal with 😅😅
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 06-09-17, 07:51AM
Welsh Hugh trouble is there are no full time jobs any more the most they give out now is 11 hours and that is flexi. You cannot live on that money even if they increase the hourly rate.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 06-09-17, 08:20AM
I work in stores and would prefer distribution if starting out today. Distribution is one of the only areas of the business which allows new starters to get a decent amount of guaranteed hours. Knowing I had this benefit alone which store colleagues cannot seem to get nowadays would make it a far easier shift.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 06-09-17, 08:58AM
Quote from: BarryZola on 04-09-17, 10:25PM
Hello Duracell.

You said this: "BarryZola.. only leavers stand any chance of benefit with that stance, if you are leaving good luck to you, if not.. your setting yourself up to fail."

I'm not looking for an argument or to be clever, but what do you mean exactly by that? How am I setting myself up to fail? Or did you mean Tesco workers generally? The way I see it, I survive on my current wages and any extra bonuses that may come around are, well.....bonuses. I'm guessing I've probably not got the gist of what you were on about....?

Quite simple really.. the attitude to take what ever you can get dispite being undeserving of it would only benefit you if you left the company near the time of the windfall.
As for "setting yourself up to fail" or better worded "setting yourself up for a fall", that to is simple to understand.

Speculation should not be selective, those that think of possibilities should not be selective when they do ponder possibilities, especially as the history and approach of the company has shown time and time and time again that they will offset cost.
So realistically you are only going to gain in the manner you think if many many others do to, that will bring substantial costs to the company... as has been said before by many in many varying topics the company will not simply absorb that cost they will offset that cost.. essentially "Rob Peter to pay Paul" or worse still offset the cost with the same group where the cost falls. Recent Pay rises indicate such an approach restructures indicate the same.

Anyone that thinks that an award from this, that would have to be 'on mass' would be "free" absorbed by the company with no inherent loss, is frankly delusional in the extreme.

The legal team pushing it will walk away from the mess it will create.
I suspect some who support the continued propaganda to "Stick it to the Man" in anyway possible aren't even working for the company and won't feel the fallout.

Cost will be offset

Simples

At least with this company question what seems to be free, that you yourself have trouble justifying as credible, as with this company it will likely bite you on the arse.

My stance is and always will be we should all receive what we are entitled to. The entitlement in this case has yet to be shown... or even reasoned which is very worrying. Lambs to Slaughter springs to mind.

The Double time claim I support wholeheartedly that is simple to understand.
A gender discrimination claim across different devisions of the business based on pay when each devision pays equal pay to both genders is a stretch for our company.

Let's not forget the benchmark being used for the snowball effect is the ASDA case, which has unique evidence, which suggests that ASDA had active concerns and actions countering the use of retail workers in Distribution and visa Versa, which raises questions in the Asda case that are unique that wouldn't be a consideration in any other case.

The trouble with the snowball effect "the snowball"  it can very often be tainted with a lot of yellow snow.

"Where there is blame there is a claim" yet the cost is always offset.



Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: grim up north on 06-09-17, 07:27PM
There's been a few similar threads to this one, and I for one find some of the language and spite directed at others shocking. One similar thread, when it wasn't going the way the op wanted, begged the moderators to delete the entire thread. On this one, if people have disagreed with a certain member, have been belittled and, in my honest opinion bullied. Just because people see things in a different way, I don't think some of the name calling etc has been warranted. If some think stores should receive the same pay as DC staff then fair enough. If it happens, Dc staff will, I think, just have wages frozen until stores catch up. As a DC worker, we have some staff who have transferred from stores and 100% would return to store if the money was the same. I've asked on other threads, why don't these staff who are pushing for equal pay, apply to work in distribution as my, and probably most, DC's are recruiting. Yet these store staff never answer. Having worked in both stores and DC's, as far as I'm concerned, there is no comparison. My local store has had their staff visit our Dc to see what goes on, and store staff with 30+ years experience couldn't believe what they saw. They had no idea how it works and it was a real eye opener for them.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: redders on 06-09-17, 07:43PM
Having worked in a dc and store, working in a dc is more hard work then a store and picking can be monotonous plus shift of 6-2 2-10 or nights. In a store I think night shift and back door tipping come close to it, a store is a lot more relaxed and calmer place then a dc.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 06-09-17, 08:00PM
Whichever angle your'e looking at it from this much is true:

It's for the courts to decide whether the claim against ASDA and SAINSBURY fails or whether those companies are forced to pay 6 years worth of back pay. It matters not a jot what 'we' think is right, wrong or different. Pandora's box has been prised open and there's no shutting the lid unless the tribunals judges do it behalf of the retailer.

Let's watch it run its course, not get into battles about its validity, not bitch about who has the toughest, least thankful role eh

Big love, hugs and kisses  :-* :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 07-09-17, 12:19AM
Whatever the outcome I'm reading DC's take pay freeze until stores catch up, that will never happen.  The company will have to match the DCs from day one.  Remember DC's can and will strike, stores can but won't strike that is the difference.  Yes courts can rule the pay should be the same, if that's the case company can pay difference from day 1.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 07-09-17, 11:04AM
USDAW (instore) would never strike against Tesco, and as far as I'm aware they gave up this right at the time the Partnership agreement was created.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 10-09-17, 11:16AM
@grim up north, some have similar observations and possibly frustratrations.
Yet OpShunned is partly correct, the tribunal will decide based on the evidence of casess presented.

I disagree with "it matters not a jot what we think is right, wrong or different".
It absolutely matters because any stance or belief plays a big part in whether you get on what is being turned into a propaganda train, several carriages , each carriage holding stereo typical claimants and their claims.

Also it matters to those that could ultimately pay a price in response to any costs incurred. Will they just sit back and take the hit.
If this years paytalks in Distribution and how they started is anything to go by then, the principle of one group paying or losing out to fund the reward of another group isn't going to work and won't be accepted.

Any loss reward or freeze in Distribution has to be Accepted by the democratic vote, I do not speak for anyone in this anonymous format other than myself, unless there is some substantial long term benefit or Guarantee to the Distribution consultative groups I will NEVER accept a pay cut or pay freeze.

I have to say I welcome this
Quote from: OpShunned on 06-09-17, 08:00PM
Whichever angle your'e looking at it from this much is true:

It's for the courts to decide whether the claim against ASDA and SAINSBURY fails or whether those companies are forced to pay 6 years worth of back pay. It matters not a jot what 'we' think is right, wrong or different. Pandora's box has been prised open and there's no shutting the lid unless the tribunals judges do it behalf of the retailer.

Let's watch it run its course, not get into battles about its validity, not bitch about who has the toughest, least thankful role eh

Big love, hugs and kisses  :-* :-* :-* :-*

Although it appears a little ironic but I'm glad to see my point of view is being heard, as a point of interest though the term "Pandora's Box" isn't received well on here in the context of this topic and others like it, or at least it wasn't when I used the Term.

It is a rather apt term though, I'm glad you now seem understand the point I was making when I oringinally used the term.  :thumbup:


Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: grim up north on 10-09-17, 06:49PM
Quote from: Duracell on 10-09-17, 11:16AM
Any loss reward or freeze in Distribution has to be Accepted by the democratic vote, I do not speak for anyone in this anonymous format other than myself, unless there is some substantial long term benefit or Guarantee to the Distribution consultative groups I will NEVER accept a pay cut or pay freeze.

We recently have had pay talks and a vote on pay in my DC. Practically everyone I spoke to said they voted no, yet when the result was announced 66% voted yes to accept. So although nor you or I would ever accept a cut or freeze on pay, we aren't the only ones voting. So if the courts do vote in favour for stores receiving the same pay, who knows where it will lead.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 11-09-17, 08:57AM
Absolutely right who knows indeed.
My point was our fate is in our own hands. We might be lucky even! The company may look upon us favourably accepting the last two pay offers without complaint or action, they might just seek to offset cost within the group to which the cost was incurred.

I am comfortable with the fact that what ever cost cutting pay cuts that come our way, they  still require a democratic consent from the majority.

Even if I say no and the majority say yes then that is the process that I accept. The point is it must come to us.

I am not in agreement that this years pay award is a comparison though, a rate applied award without any concession is hardly a comparison or an example of a pay cut or pay freeze. So yes we can unanimously accept by the democratic vote but we can't imply that the last vote would in anyway be mirrored when heavy cuts with no award are to be voted on.

That will be something completely different that will create a different mentality altogether.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 07-10-17, 08:59PM
Asda granted permission to appeal to Court of Appeal in equal pay case

In Asda Stores Ltd v Brierley and others (UKEAT/0011/17/DM), the Employment Appeal Tribunal has granted Asda permission to appeal a decision in which store workers claiming equal pay were judged to be entitled to compare themselves to employees based in the company's distribution centres.

Employment tribunal decision

Asda applied for 7,000+ equal pay claims to be struck out on the grounds that a comparison between employees based in Asda stores and those based in distribution centres is not legally permissible. The judge in the employment tribunal (ET) found in favour of the claimants and held that the comparison is legally permissible so the claims could proceed to the next stage of the equal value process.

There are two legal tests that apply to an equal pay comparison between employees who work for the same employer (or associated employers) in different locations:

The UK "same employment" test, now contained in the Equality Act 2010, requires there to be common terms and conditions either generally or as between A (the claimant) and B (the comparator).
The EU "single source" test requires there to be a 'single source' of terms and conditions of employment in the form of a 'single body responsible for any inequality and capable of restoring equal treatment'.
The Equal Pay Act test, which applied before 1 October 2010, required there to be common terms and conditions 'either generally or for employees of the relevant classes', which was found to be satisfied where the claimants form a class of employees who enjoy common terms, and the comparators form a separate class of employees who enjoy common terms.

The ET found that the UK test had not changed, despite the Equality Act appearing to require there to be a comparison between the claimant and the comparator.

The financial oversight of both parts of the business by the Asda board of directors and related sub-committees was considered to be sufficient to satisfy the 'single source' test, which the ET found to be directly applicable in the UK. Asda appealed to the Employment Appeal Tribunal (EAT).

Employment Appeal Tribunal decision

The EAT also found in favour of the claimants, approving the ET decision.

The judge however granted permission for Asda to appeal to the Court of Appeal, recognising that there were strong arguments in favour of both parties that would need to be considered at a higher level, and potentially referred to Europe (if this route continues to be available at the relevant time).


Comment

UK employers deserve clear guidance from the courts on the question of what is an appropriate comparison for an equal pay claim.

Neither UK nor EU law permits a hypothetical comparator yet the UK courts continue to apply EU law to a situation in which UK law is interpreted as allowing a comparison with a hypothetical comparator where the actual comparator is based at a different location from the claimant.

This additionally involves treating the test in the Equality Act as saying something different from what it actually says. The requirement is to compare the claimant with the comparator. According to the courts, this includes an assessment of whether a hypothetical person assumed to be based at the claimant's place of work would be employed on common terms, as compared with the actual comparator who is based elsewhere.

Clarity is urgently required in relation to the UK legal position first and foremost, although interestingly this may be one of the first cases in which the senior courts in the UK have to decide how the law in this country should be interpreted post Brexit.




https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=367a58d1-bd2e-483b-ba74-a7dc3b1e3d0b (https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=367a58d1-bd2e-483b-ba74-a7dc3b1e3d0b)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 29-11-17, 10:29PM
bumped in the light of Adamlad's reply from Leigh DAY regarding the 'unlawful deduction of wages'.... Hopefully, colleagues can win something elsewhere?

In the meantime, we are likely to be in touch very soon indeed about a very different legal issue we have mentioned before to you, namely an equal pay claim against Tesco, similar to the claims we are currently pursuing against Asda and Sainsbury's for many thousands of their staff. As you know, this a claim which you and all hourly paid staff in the stores can potentially pursue.

Please let me know if you have any queries



[Background]

Another victory for workers in their fight for equal pay against Asda

The Employment Appeal Tribunal has ruled today that Asda has been unsuccessful in another attempt to stop over 10,000 equal pay claims against them from proceeding.
https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/News-2017/August-2017/Another-victory-for-workers-in-their-fight-for-equ (https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/News-2017/August-2017/Another-victory-for-workers-in-their-fight-for-equ)

Tom Hewitt, Solicitor, Employment
Leigh Day Priory House, 25 St John's Lane, London EC1M 4LB
Tel: 020 7650 1200 Fax: 020 7253 4433 DX 53326 Clerkenwell
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 30-11-17, 08:41PM
[Message from Leigh Day regarding the Equal Pay Claim]

we are likely to be in touch very soon indeed about a very different legal issue we have mentioned before to you, namely an equal pay claim against Tesco, similar to the claims we are currently pursuing against Asda and Sainsbury's for many thousands of their staff. As you know, this a claim which you and all hourly paid staff in the stores can potentially pursue.[/color]
===================================================

If you're interested in joining the Equal Pay Claim get in touch with Leigh Day solicitors. This is now a real issue for Tesco and despite some negativity it has gained traction. There is nothing to lose and much to gain for THOSE within who raise their head above the parapet.


Tom Hewitt, Solicitor, Employment
Leigh Day Priory House, 25 St John's Lane, London EC1M 4LB
Tel: 020 7650 1200 Fax: 020 7253 4433 DX 53326 Clerkenwell

https://www.change.org/p/tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work-tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work?recruiter=718013063&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive (https://www.change.org/p/tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work-tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work?recruiter=718013063&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 01-12-17, 10:28AM
[admin]Several posts have been deleted from this topic for being OFF topic.[/admin]
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 01-12-17, 12:06PM
Just a word of warning, Leigh Day are not the most ethical and efficient solicitors. Any one who wants to sign up to this treat them like you would do T***o keep copies of everything and read all the terms and conditions. This is from personal experience of the current case. Im trying to prewarn rather than deter here 
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: claden on 01-12-17, 12:47PM
Why what's happened with the current case?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: cosmosmallpiece on 01-12-17, 02:33PM
If you read further up the post there is a letter
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: his scots tie on 01-12-17, 05:59PM
Quote from: claden on 01-12-17, 12:47PM
Why what's happened with the current case?
Looks like judgement will favour Tesco, we won't find out till New Year.  At least we gave it a go and high lighted the fact of how unfairly staff have been treated.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 01-12-17, 06:07PM
I cant say too much as if I explain the exact problem that Leigh Day caused through incompetence and mismanagement it would identify me to them and also to people I work with who know about this. What I can say is that they dont reply to emails, they tell you tasks have been done that have not and dont communicate amongst themselves. If you imagine Tesco running a solicitors this is what they have been like to deal with. If I had been paying them privately as opposed to a no win no fee I would have not stood for their levels of service.

Without elaborating further in the event we the staff win my damages would be severely reduced because of a basic clerical error they made. I made the solicitor in charge aware of this and I have been told continuously that an admin person had done this. I can say through external confirmation this is not the case. If we win and I get any damages I will be reporting them to the Solicitors Regulatory Society the ombudsman. Another point regarding leigh Day and the ethics they lack try googling them and see what they did to some of our soldiers in Iraq. Im not saying any more on that point as I dont have the facts to hand on this.

Im just warning anyone who wants to get involve with a further claim to keep copies of everything and record dates and what you have said to them

I apologise if this is drifting off topic.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 01-12-17, 08:02PM
Better to have fought your corner than to have done nothing.

Where was USDAW apart from signing off the theft of loyal colleagues'premiums?

Tesco can afford high-powered legal teams; at least Leigh Day fought it on  no win no fee basis. John Hannett and his pay negotiating Star Chamber won't stand in the way of the robber barons that's for sure.

The Iraq episode is irrelevant to be honest. They weren't admonished for it?

Good luck and I hope you do win your case despite your reservations an concerns  :thumbup:

It was always the case that proving unlawful deduction of wages and discrimination (of long term staff) was troublesome. The acceptance of a cushion payment for starters? The unholy alliance of the partnership's pay negotiation was another hurdle.

I fear there will be many that hailed Lewis and Stewart as saviours will regret the day  they turned up at Welwyn Towers  :(
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 02-12-17, 12:06AM
I agree it's better to have tried and failed than to not have tried at all.

I feel the pay review/Sunday premium case was a stronger case than a potential equal pay claim.

Leigh Day, do they now have to pay 'T's costs? As the loosing side usually does.

If I were a conspiracy theorist I may be a bit sceptical about the chain of events.

adamlad talks of pratices, behaviour and errors not befitting of a company at that operational level, Could some kind of arrangement have been made to reduce Leigh Day's costs.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: blutopia on 02-12-17, 03:53AM
From adamlad's most recent post, it would appear that Leigh Day messed up.  I wouldn't worry about whether or not they could mitigate the costs (assuming the case is lost).
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 02-12-17, 09:38AM
blutopia is right I would say that Leigh Day took on more than they could handle, they made basic assumptions that what happened in every store for example was the same across the country and left it till the last minute to ask for information / evidence from us the people who they were representing.

Another example LD tried to claim the union had not communicated with the staff this was to support the argument the partnership agreement was c**p and as a result of that the pay review agreement was void. tesco defended by supplying in the pre trial document defence disclosure a claim that each store had a union notice board with all the information on it and this was one of the methods that the union use to ensure that everybody in every store gets the same communication. with this was a picture of the perfect union notice board, massive, full of up to date and relevant information- it was quite clear that this was 'staged' by tesco. I have worked as a manager for tesco for 10 years and have never seen a board like it every store I have been in the boards are full of c**p or just not updated. LD accepted that this at face value that this board was like it in every store and could not see past the fact that this was a prop no even ask us till 2 days before the trial for our views on the tesco defence argument.

Leigh Day will have to pay Tesco costs normally you dont in a tribunal if you are an individual but as this is a corporate body on no win no fee you have to, totally agree its better to have tried than to have not

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 02-12-17, 01:02PM
Adamlad

Was the No win no fee case done on

Conditional fee agreement (CFA)
or

Damages-based agreement (DBA)
:question:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 02-12-17, 10:42PM
Opshunned DBA basis
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Slave64 on 02-12-17, 10:49PM
I have been with Tesco a long time. I can honestly say there has never been in past or now a notice board for usdaw. This union is useless, they take your money but don't support you
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 25-01-18, 09:41PM
A post by Adamlad on a separate thread earlier today (http://www.verylittlehelps.com/index.php?topic=15614.msg209694#msg209694)

[gmod]HDD space saving.[/gmod]
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 27-01-18, 01:43PM
If you have any questions, either in relation to the document or the case more generally, please do not hesitate to contact Leigh Day on 0800 689 0570 or by email at tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 29-01-18, 07:30AM
https://www.change.org/p/tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work-tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work (https://www.change.org/p/tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work-tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work)

Tesco's Women/Men retail workers deserve equal pay for equal work!

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: cityboy on 29-01-18, 11:04AM
The concept of this argument is c**p. Women in retail don't deserve the same pay as men in distribution. People in retail do deserve the same pay as people in distribution. This is not a sexist issue!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 31-01-18, 09:07AM
There are both men and women in distribution, and they get paid the same. There are both men and women in stores and they get paid the same. Not all  there in a geographical difference in store  pay, there is a different rate of pay in distribution.  Distribution  is currently finding it hard to recruit  and retain staff at the moment for a reason.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 31-01-18, 10:32AM
If M/F are moving same boxes similar distances then they deserve the same hourly rate of pay.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 31-01-18, 11:20AM
but they are women  ;D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 31-01-18, 01:45PM
Can I draw your attention to the following extract from Adamlad's correspondence from Leigh Day regarding the claim?

[The new claim against Tesco and how to proceed.]
If you have any questions, either in relation to the document or the case more generally, please do not hesitate to contact Leigh Day on 0800 689 0570 or by email at tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk


Anyone, male or female, who has worked at a Tesco store in England or Wales in the last six years, or Scotland in the last five years, is entitled to bring an equal pay claim against Tesco. The more people who join this claim, the greater the amount of pressure on Tesco to deal with the issues raised.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 05-02-18, 10:18AM
https://www.leighday.co.uk/Employment-discrimination/Current-cases/Tesco-equal-pay-claim

Tesco Equal Pay Claim


Leigh Day is currently bringing a claim on behalf of Tesco store workers for equal pay. We are doing so to promote equality and challenge how large retailers pay their employees in different areas of their business.

Equal pay claims

Equal pay claims for supermarket employees are about whether hourly-paid store staff carry out work that is of "equal value" to that carried out by the staff who work in the distribution centres. The staff working in the stores are mostly women and the staff working in the distribution centres are mostly men. 

If it is shown that their work is of equal value, and we can show that the reason for the difference in pay is due to their gender and cant be justified, then the equal pay claims will be successful. We believe that we will be successful in these equal pay claims against Tesco as well as those we are running against Asda and Sainsburys.

Who can claim?

Anyone, female or male, who has worked at a Tesco store in England, Northern Ireland or Wales in the last six years, or Scotland in the last five years.

If you have worked for Tesco for more than 6 years will be entitled to the maximum amount of back pay.

Should you wish to instruct Leigh Day to represent you in this claim, please contact us at tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk or on 0800 689 0570

Please be assured that strong victimisation laws are in place to prevent any negative action being taken against you for bringing an equal pay claim. If you have any concerns about this, you can call 0207 650 1228 and speak to our team in confidence.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Rigger on 07-02-18, 05:59AM
This claim is laughable, most store staff wouldn't last 5 minutes working in a distribution warehouse. I see both sides daily, I wouldn't work in the warehouse for twice the money, I could do store work but I wouldn't want to do that either.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 07-02-18, 07:10AM
Rigger. Everyone is entitled to their opinion especially as it adds to the debate. It's a conversation worth having, and one that will take place in a court of law. A year ago, I didn't think it would get this far given the apathy in some quarters and outright objection in others.

Up the workers  ;D Well done Pam for sticking your neck out  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Tesco equal pay claim could cost supermarket up to £4bn

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/07/tesco-equal-pay-claim-could-cost-supermarket-up-to-4bn (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/07/tesco-equal-pay-claim-could-cost-supermarket-up-to-4bn)

Pam Jenkins, 57, has worked for Tesco for 26 years and currently works mainly nights on the shopfloor in Tesco's Baldock store in Hertfordshire. She is paid about £8 an hour and also recently lost out when Tesco reduced premium pay rates for Sunday shifts.

Her job involves collecting stock from the warehouse, stocking shelves and dealing with customers. "It is quite hands-on manual work," she said.

Jenkins said: "Tesco is a good employer. They just need to get their facts right. They say they want everybody to be equal. It should be equal pay for equal value. I do feel let down and a bit miffed to say the least."

Tesco said it would consider any changes to pay in partnership with Usdaw, the trade union which represents the majority of its shopfloor staff.

The supermarket said it was yet to receive details of any claim.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Rigger on 07-02-18, 07:43AM
The 2 jobs aren't performed under the same conditions, far from it
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 07:45AM
Would it be wise to allow this to go to court before putting your name to the case, then see if they're successful or not? Obviously if the claim is successful then any store staff can just piggy-back on the judgment and proceed with a claim? Just checking this as I'm no expert, but wouldn't want my name to be involved with the case if it is unsuccessful. Fair play to Pam, she's braver than me :)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Twinkletoes on 07-02-18, 08:07AM
Maybe the warehouse staff should be paid the extra in Lego blocks or duplo.   Given that majority of cages look like an idiot built them...
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 07-02-18, 08:10AM
I imagine once Asia's appeal is heard (a judge ruled the work in store and distribution WAS of equal value) and verdict known people will decide to join this claim on mass but if Asda lose appeal Tesco may decide to pay out as the precident in law will have been set . Thoughts anyone ??
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: belfast driver on 07-02-18, 08:38AM
I have a feeling Tesco will win this case as 99 percent of shop staff would never hack working in the warehouse. It's hard work with very high targets to reach.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 07-02-18, 09:04AM
It's not the physical  work they are judging , it's the similarities and the value of the work . I had read about this claim on here and laughed it off but the article in the guardian I read this morning (online I don't generally read the guardian) made me stop and think
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: belfast driver on 07-02-18, 09:08AM
Quote from: Welshie on 07-02-18, 09:04AM
It's not the physical  work they are judging , it's the similarities and the value of the work . I had read about this claim on here and laughed it off but the article in the guardian I read this morning (online I don't generally read the guardian) made me stop and think
If thats the case I want the same salary as Dave Lewis.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: VladPutin on 07-02-18, 09:21AM
Quote from: belfast driver on 07-02-18, 08:38AM
I have a feeling Tesco will win this case as 99 percent of shop staff would never hack working in the warehouse. It's hard work with very high targets to reach.

Depot is where they dump the dregs. People so lazy and stupid they couldn't get a job "working" in Costa ;D :D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 07-02-18, 09:23AM
@Belfast driver
Store or distribution, we all deserve that!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Rigger on 07-02-18, 10:10AM
Quote from: Twinkletoes on 07-02-18, 08:07AM
Maybe the warehouse staff should be paid the extra in Lego blocks or duplo.   Given that majority of cages look like an idiot built them...

There you go,  the conditions they have to work under are the cause of a lot of the badly stacked cages, are store staff issued with wrist held pda's which monitor how fast you are working & to what standard??
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 07-02-18, 10:25AM
How workers are managed/monitored has no bearing on the claim, neither is whether they are male or female.

However if one person picks up boxes and puts them in a cage and the next person takes them off a cage and puts them on a shelf then their work is of equal worth, in my opinion.

I wish the claim success.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Rigger on 07-02-18, 10:35AM
Course it does. The claimants should be shipped into their nearest DC for a week of work, the claim would be dropped by halfway through the 1st shift.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: blutopia on 07-02-18, 10:42AM
All of us who work in stores could give chapter and verse about the countless badly stacked cages we receive (cases of block cheese squashing yogurts, needing to be an octopus to be able to catch everything falling off when the cage door is opened, etc.) but I think the stupidity is not realising and appreciating the pressures the depot staff work under.  I agree with belfast driver and Rigger that very few store colleagues would hack working in a depot and, therefore, the equal pay claim is unlikely to succeed.  I'm sad to say that and hope Nomad's argument can prevail.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Charlie1991 on 07-02-18, 10:44AM
As a former pension employee this could have major implications on pensions, as all pensions were based on contractual salaries, if these are found to be underpaid then all pensions would need to be reviewed.

A massive task, especially as all the experienced staff has been made redundant.

YOU COULD BE UNDERPAID YOUR PENSION
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: gomezz on 07-02-18, 10:45AM
I think the main thing that would stop me wanting to work in a depot would the aggressive, macho atmosphere that seems to prevail.  Though my own personal experience of that is having to work alongside women in a factory.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Charlie1991 on 07-02-18, 10:53AM
 :(
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 07-02-18, 11:52AM
Gomez how is a warehouse a macho workplace? In my DC men And women happily work alongside each other.and work well together. DC's of today are equal to men and women.
Let's be honest we have a choice in life. I work in a DC as it guarantee me 37.5 hours a week. I also took the job understanding the pay on offer. I chose not to work in a store for various reasons. In DC's we are tracked all shift with arm mounted computers. Picking is hard. Yes store staff move boxes. In DC's staff can pick 24 pallets of potatoes or Mellon's in a shift. Vast difference.loading on MHE is very cold . Freezer is minus 21 and you can be in there a very long time. Pressure of pick rates and loading rates is immense. I have great respect for store staff but working in a DC is miles away from working in a store.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: redcar renegade on 07-02-18, 12:01PM
I wonder what Usdaw have to say on this matter, surely it would make sense to union officals to have equality as they are always going on about. Does the partnership agreement  in effect validate Tesco policy so in effect making Usdaw an accessory in  this case.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: fargone on 07-02-18, 12:07PM
These Women f**king kill me, they wouldn't last a week in a DC.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: toscozombie on 07-02-18, 12:12PM
Reading this I fully understand that dc have a hard job. But my job on nights is as hard.
I have to then pull those cages and unload my stock onto the relevant cage for the area that I work in (fresh) in between clearing spillages of badly stacked items and sorting damages out ...I do realise staff in DC are pushed, but so are we ..years ago stock came in roughly for the area intended and we were allowed a presorter but this has been stopped so now we have no presorter cages are mixed worse than ever, so stock is handled 2/3 times before it ends up where it belongs ...on a good night I can pull out around 20 cages also picking off my stock in cold conditions and fill.
In my case I believe I should be paid the same as DC . I'm afraid we are all pushed to do the most they can get out of us now, man or woman ...especially DC and Nights . Days is a different way of working and before anyone slates me I have worked days too so feel I can comment on this .
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OvaSees on 07-02-18, 12:50PM
^ you don't have to utilise specialist tools or machinery, some of which requires a license to operate, to do your job. The whole argument fails for me since anyone who wants the DC rate of pay can have it - by choosing to work in a DC rather than a store. That opportunity is denied to nobody, regardless of gender.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Looselips on 07-02-18, 12:57PM
Quote from: fargone on 07-02-18, 12:07PM
These Women f**king kill me, they wouldn't last a week in a DC.
And no doubt you wouldn't last a f**king week in a store- and for the record I worked in a DC for over 27 years , and you are missing the concept of equal value claims, the jobs and challenges are vary , but the overall value (to the company as a whole) is the same ... NB the German retailers pay the warehouse and retail staff are paid at the same rate
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: mexicopete on 07-02-18, 01:00PM
Quote from: redcar renegade on 07-02-18, 12:01PM
I wonder what Usdaw have to say on this matter, surely it would make sense to union officals to have equality as they are always going on about. Does the partnership agreement  in effect validate Tesco policy so in effect making Usdaw an accessory in  this case.

Unfortunately we will never find out what Usdaw have to say on this matter, because like everything else that is wrong with Tosco at the moment Usdaw just stay mute. They really are Useless Seven Days A Week and always will be. >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Tape measure on 07-02-18, 01:06PM
Quote from: fargone on 07-02-18, 12:07PM
These Women f**king kill me, they wouldn't last a week in a DC.


Oh do calm down. Please.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: scattyduckling on 07-02-18, 01:15PM
Some women will jump rings around some men !!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 07-02-18, 01:30PM
That is true.  There are those who cannot or will not take gender out of the argument.  I personally have known some very quick female D.C. pickers.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 07-02-18, 01:30PM
We are all equal. That's the redundancy and the overtime pot for 2018 used up in the oner. 
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: gomezz on 07-02-18, 01:34PM
Quote from: Retrokid on 07-02-18, 11:52AM
Gomez how is a warehouse a macho workplace?
My impression is based on comments such as
Quote from: fargone on 07-02-18, 12:07PM
These Women f**king kill me, they wouldn't last a week in a DC.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: twit on 07-02-18, 01:36PM
Anyone gaining more pay does nothing to harm those already in receipt of a higher rate. It merely corrects the situation (as determined by the tribunals and courts). So hopefully stores staff get a lift up in pay terms and divide and rule opportunities are reduced. Good luck to those covered by this action. It will do no harm.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 07-02-18, 01:44PM
The men/women in Stores work as hard as those men/women in DC. Task are equally as demanding in own way. There should be no difference in pay between men and women. DC should not get any more than Stores per hour. I have worked both day and night in Stores and DC and at busy periods.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Charlie1991 on 07-02-18, 01:52PM
Has anyone thought how this will affect your pension, it used to be based on final salary/ contractual pay

Could have a massive impact on Tesco
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: trolleyboy96 on 07-02-18, 01:52PM
I haven't read much into this thread, but saw the news had a look, it's quite shocking the amount of staff who suddenly feel Tesco owe then £20-30k and they deserve it, I sat at breakfast while some of the guys voiced how as women there entitled and this will pay for a holiday etc.. at this point Tesco have made no reply?? Unless I've missed it, so will this end up being a wishful hope or will everyone get a payout?

Most cases it's easy to see how this will go, but on this one I have no idea, removing all the ill feeling etc... what's the logical thoughts will this be a big payday or just noise for a solicitor to get publicity???

The other thought is will this cripple Tesco, can't fill the pension blackhole...
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: sensible_woman on 07-02-18, 01:57PM
If this is successful and I get a payout and it makes Tesco go bust and I get redundancy then surely for some that would be a very successful outcome
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Charlie1991 on 07-02-18, 02:25PM
Tesco haven't got enough staff with the Correct experience to be able to work out these under payments if approved. All the experienced staff have been made redundant. There would be so many different elements to it, such as overtime, shift allowance, pension contributions etc

It would take years to get this sorted as it would affect ex staff as well (going back to 1984) - could be half a million people affected.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 07-02-18, 02:43PM
It would be an external company who would be sent in to do this work on behalf of the company. You don't think our new admin person would do it all do you.  ;D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: fargone on 07-02-18, 03:00PM
Go and find me 50 females, and I guarantee that none of them would want to go order picking in a DC.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 07-02-18, 03:25PM
Watched on news today solicitor from Leigh Day talking about how women in stores are loosing out to men in DC's. Is that sexist or  what? Surely there are men in stores that work with women on same pay.

They want same pay as men in DC's. Hang on a minute there are women in DC's paid exactly the same as men in DC's. Why isn't claim about them as well. It's so one sided it's laughable and a barrister will rip it apart

Also case of careful what you wish for. A lot of store staff or their partners could be on benefits. Any payments as back pay over arrears could be seen by HMRC as benefits were overpaid if suddenly staff get lump sums for arrears . Another minefield. HMRC will want their money back.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 07-02-18, 04:26PM
Yes so if women in Stores get same as men in DC. Men in Stores can then claim same as womens new DC wage. It is a win for both Men and Women in stores. If the company goes up the wall there is always another supermarket round the corner. I wish the the women luck. DC is no more difficult than Stores.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 05:01PM
Wouldn't it be absolutely awful if they had to give me a massive back-dated payout and raise my wages, then have to give me a big redundancy payout in a few years when the company finally goes to complete s***e and they start closing stores etc  (-*-)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: sensible_woman on 07-02-18, 05:28PM
My sentiments exactly BarryZola
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: belfast driver on 07-02-18, 05:45PM
Quote from: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 05:01PM
Wouldn't it be absolutely awful if they had to give me a massive back-dated payout and raise my wages, then have to give me a big redundancy payout in a few years when the company finally goes to complete s***e and they start closing stores
etc  (-*-)

If the company goes belly up there won't be any redundancy payments 🐒🐒🐒
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: fargone on 07-02-18, 05:47PM
The Company hasn't got £4,000,000,000.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 06:00PM
Quote from: belfast driver on 07-02-18, 05:45PM
Quote from: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 05:01PM
Wouldn't it be absolutely awful if they had to give me a massive back-dated payout and raise my wages, then have to give me a big redundancy payout in a few years when the company finally goes to complete s***e and they start closing stores
etc  (-*-)

If the company goes belly up there won't be any redundancy payments 🐒🐒🐒

Yes, but there will be many redundancies along the way, cost cutting, before they finally admit defeat. And, genuinely not sure about this, but with all of the Tesco banks, insurance etc, is it not a bigger company that could keep going as a business without the physical shopping stores, therefore meaning that they still have cash to pay redundancy even if they close the stores, but keep other areas of the business going? Doesn't all that other stuff affect our eligibility for bonuses with the big six pie chart or whatever it is, when it suits them? Genuinely interested what would happen if stores were shuttered but the wider company still had the money to keep trading......
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: anfield on 07-02-18, 06:06PM
It doesn't matter what we , Tesco think is correct or just , what matters is what a court of law judges to be correct. For a multinational company to be in such a position is laughable .
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 07-02-18, 06:39PM
Quote from: fargone on 07-02-18, 05:47PM
The Company hasn't got £4,000,000,000.

Pity that because they could set it aside to cover the deficit reported in the Guardian on Sunday  :o

BT alone has a pension deficit of £9.1bn, Shell £6.9bn, BP £6.7bn and Tesco and BAE Systems have £6.6bn each. The top five biggest company pension deficits could wipe out those assets in one fell swoop, and at least three other FTSE 100 firms have deficits over £2bn.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/02/04/pension-basket-cases-may-join-carillion/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/02/04/pension-basket-cases-may-join-carillion/)




Anyway, you have plenty of time to prepare for your Doomsday scenario.. The Asda case isn't back in court until October so it'll be ages before Tesco get dragged into it. If Asda (and sainsbury) win you can decide what to do from there  :(

Aldi and lidl peeing themselves laughing again. Their staff already earning more than ours despite Tesco having to award 10% pay rises, that's how embarrassing the store wage is for the boots on the ground.

When Booker is synergised with Tesco Distribution, DC workforces will be put into a whirlpool and shot out the other end and into oblivion.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 06:50PM
The more I think about it, the more I do think that the grievance does have some validity, in the sense that payment for stores and distribution should be the same. Okay, I fully accept that in the majority of cases that the work at DC's is heavier more manual work.

However, in stores there are many people on many departments who have to perform hard physical work every day/night. What about the people on fruit and veg who spend all day lifting 5 cases off a dolly just to get at one case for a customer/picker, then have to put all of the others back on, many times a day, in-between just generally working the heavy trays on the department. The people who have to sort out the pallets of BWS etc? Believe it or not, bread can be very physical and fast paced too in a busy store. Basically most departments have become more demanding as Tesco has axed more staff. This was Tesco's choice, not the staff's.

How about generally being at the mercy of customers, some of who feel that they can treat you as a lower class of person because you work in a supermarket. Basically, you don't have to just be told what to do by your boss, but you're on call from customers too, even though we all know that we're as understaffed as ever and so are busy enough already. We have less and less time to get the job done in stores as staff are dwindling, but we're expected to deliver excellent customer service too. This can be quite an art to deliver, especially during busy periods.

Then you have the night staff who have to deal with drunkards running amok in stores and are more likely to get away with it as security is not as it once was. You're safer in a distribution centre when it comes to security. Do you get tramps sleeping in your toilets in distribution centres? How many of you in DC's get threatened or risk being attacked by people not being served alcohol for being drunk on your nightshift?

How hard is it to park outside your work at DC's? It can be a right pain in the a**e to even get your car parked even before you start your shift in stores.

How multi-skilled do you have to be for your wage in DC's? Do you have to not only be able to perform your own job to an acceptable standard, but also have to be trained and ready to jump on a checkout, push a dotcom shopping trolley around and have your time etc monitored via computer whilst doing it, go and help unload a lorry because the staff aren't available on back door, jump on the security podium for an hour to cover a break. What about the staff who do the community stuff and provide a service to local schools and stuff taking children around the store along with their teachers showing them how the store operates and teaching them about different foods etc.

It's also easy to say how easy it is to sit on a checkout talking to customers, but ask yourself this? Would you like to be stuck on a checkout making conversation all day long? I personally would hate that and prefer more manual work. But whatever you do in store, you're always expected to do your duties on your department, as well as helping others out when needed, and also being at the mercy of customers needs/complaints.

Maybe the pay ratio does need looking at in some way. Obviously the DC's wouldn't want to lose pay, so maybe there's only one way to go. Stores wages go up.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Took the money on 07-02-18, 07:00PM
So under that assumption should we not pay the nurses the same pay as the brain surgeon. Surely it depends on the job you do as to how much you get an hour. I've worked both distribution and store and believe me I wouldn't go back to the warehouse
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 07:05PM
Quote from: Took the money on 07-02-18, 07:00PM
So under that assumption should we not pay the nurses the same pay as the brain surgeon. Surely it depends on the job you do as to how much you get an hour. I've worked both distribution and store and believe me I wouldn't go back to the warehouse

No, because it would be impossible for the nurse to do the job of the brain surgeon adequately. It obviously takes years of expensive and extensive intricate training to become a brain surgeon. You do an injustice to your intended point when you make poor comparisons.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 07-02-18, 07:08PM
Quote from: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 06:50PM

How multi-skilled do you have to be for your wage in DC's? Do you have to not only be able to perform your own job to an acceptable standard, but also have to be trained and ready to jump on a checkout, push a dotcom shopping trolley around and have your time etc monitored via computer whilst doing it, go and help unload a lorry because the staff aren't available on back door, jump on the security podium for an hour to cover a break. What about the staff who do the community stuff and provide a service to local schools and stuff taking children around the store along with their teachers showing them how the store operates and teaching them about different foods etc.



Sorry I didn't realize how hard you had it in stores, showing children around store, community work, sat on checkouts chatting, go on security desk and watch a camera screen.
I've been a fool, picking 24 pallets of spuds and mellons, working in freezers, loading trailers safely to comply with road transport regulation, and 24/7 monitoring. If you do get your pay rise I will be first in line for a store transfer. Incidentally my DC has 50 warehouse vacancies, if your that hard done by go on Tesco careers website, look for vacancies and transfer to Dc. Stop whinging and do it.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 07-02-18, 07:11PM
Quote from: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 06:50PM
The more I think about it, the more I do think that the grievance does have some validity, in the sense that payment for stores and distribution should be the same. Okay, I fully accept that in the majority of cases that the work at DC's is heavier more manual work.

However, in stores there are many people on many departments who have to perform hard physical work every day/night. What about the people on fruit and veg who spend all day lifting 5 cases off a dolly just to get at one case for a customer/picker, then have to put all of the others back on, many times a day, in-between just generally working the heavy trays on the department. The people who have to sort out the pallets of BWS etc? Believe it or not, bread can be very physical and fast paced too in a busy store. Basically most departments have become more demanding as Tesco has axed more staff. This was Tesco's choice, not the staff's.

How about generally being at the mercy of customers, some of who feel that they can treat you as a lower class of person because you work in a supermarket. Basically, you don't have to just be told what to do by your boss, but you're on call from customers too, even though we all know that we're as understaffed as ever and so are busy enough already. We have less and less time to get the job done in stores as staff are dwindling, but we're expected to deliver excellent customer service too. This can be quite an art to deliver, especially during busy periods.

Then you have the night staff who have to deal with drunkards running amok in stores and are more likely to get away with it as security is not as it once was. You're safer in a distribution centre when it comes to security. Do you get tramps sleeping in your toilets in distribution centres? How many of you in DC's get threatened or risk being attacked by people not being served alcohol for being drunk on your nightshift?

How hard is it to park outside your work at DC's? It can be a right pain in the a**e to even get your car parked even before you start your shift in stores.

How multi-skilled do you have to be for your wage in DC's? Do you have to not only be able to perform your own job to an acceptable standard, but also have to be trained and ready to jump on a checkout, push a dotcom shopping trolley around and have your time etc monitored via computer whilst doing it, go and help unload a lorry because the staff aren't available on back door, jump on the security podium for an hour to cover a break. What about the staff who do the community stuff and provide a service to local schools and stuff taking children around the store along with their teachers showing them how the store operates and teaching them about different foods etc.

It's also easy to say how easy it is to sit on a checkout talking to customers, but ask yourself this? Would you like to be stuck on a checkout making conversation all day long? I personally would hate that and prefer more manual work. But whatever you do in store, you're always expected to do your duties on your department, as well as helping others out when needed, and also being at the mercy of customers needs/complaints.

Maybe the pay ratio does need looking at in some way. Obviously the DC's wouldn't want to lose pay, so maybe there's only one way to go. Stores wages go up.

:thumbup: To all of this
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: SAMCRO on 07-02-18, 07:16PM
A pay review for customer assistants in stores has been long overdue regardless of what was in the news today. There are thousands of GAs who are multi-skilled tenfold in comparison to a lot of other GAs. How a GA who is experienced in stock control, merchandising, PI, Deli counter, checkouts etc is paid the same hourly rate as someone who is simply a checkout operator or trolley collector is a shambles.

Experience amounts to naff all now, but that's for another thread.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: were doomed on 07-02-18, 07:17PM
 :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: fargone on 07-02-18, 07:18PM
Slaves Fighting Slaves.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 07-02-18, 07:24PM
"slaves vs slaves" Nothing like some in fighting  ;D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: notsofunny on 07-02-18, 07:25PM
Quote from: Retrokid on 07-02-18, 07:08PM
Quote from: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 06:50PM

How multi-skilled do you have to be for your wage in DC's? Do you have to not only be able to perform your own job to an acceptable standard, but also have to be trained and ready to jump on a checkout, push a dotcom shopping trolley around and have your time etc monitored via computer whilst doing it, go and help unload a lorry because the staff aren't available on back door, jump on the security podium for an hour to cover a break. What about the staff who do the community stuff and provide a service to local schools and stuff taking children around the store along with their teachers showing them how the store operates and teaching them about different foods etc.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Why is it that those that seem to want a pay off have spent all this time working in store rather than moveing to w/house for better pay ? They can still do it if they want but wont  8-) or is it a case that they want something for nothing ?  I still remember that working in a w/house was looked down on and still is by some ,
Having seen some in store I wonder how they could lift a case , since they find it hard just to walk with a trolley


Sorry I didn't realize how hard you had it in stores, showing children around store, community work, sat on checkouts chatting, go on security desk and watch a camera screen.
I've been a fool, picking 24 pallets of spuds and mellons, working in freezers, loading trailers safely to comply with road transport regulation, and 24/7 monitoring. If you do get your pay rise I will be first in line for a store transfer. Incidentally my DC has 50 warehouse vacancies, if your that hard done by go on Tesco careers website, look for vacancies and transfer to Dc. Stop whinging and do it.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 07-02-18, 07:26PM
BarryZola, nice piece.  Lets face it folks there are those who would not last a day in a DC but the inverse is also true, those who would have had enough in a store after a day.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: nightslave101 on 07-02-18, 07:38PM
I can see this going down like a lead balloon. As someone has said, any barrister worth their salt will likely rip it apart. It's sexist for one.

You have women working alongside men in distribution on the same hourly rate. You have women working alongside men in stores, again on the same hourly rate. How in anyone's world can you award just the women working at stores back pay, what about all the men on the lower rated compared to the men at distribution?

If they can prove the jobs are the same then surely everyone should be due some sort of back pay.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 07-02-18, 07:39PM
Now that this issue has made the national news etc you can bet that David Potts, CEO of Morrisons, formerly 38 years at Tesco, will be fearing his minnions contacting Leigh Day. You never know, they may be prompted.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 07-02-18, 07:41PM
Quote from: nightslave101 on 07-02-18, 07:38PM
I can see this going down like a lead balloon. As someone has said, any barrister worth their salt will likely rip it apart. It's sexist for one.

You have women working alongside men in distribution on the same hourly rate. You have women working alongside men in stores, again on the same hourly rate. How in anyone's world can you award just the women working at stores back pay, what about all the men on the lower rated compared to the men at distribution?

If they can prove the jobs are the same then surely everyone should be due some sort of back pay.

You need to scroll back..It's not sexist and yes men can piggy back the claim should the female half of the equation prevail. If Asda and Sainsbury win their case, which is next heard in October the writing will be on the wall for Drastic and the robber-barons.

At one time women weren't considered worthy of the Vote.

Women drive artcic lorries, fix water leaks, have babies, work as electricians, work alongside male nurses. They've come along way despite misogynistic views  :)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 07-02-18, 07:42PM
Quote from: nightslave101 on 07-02-18, 07:38PM
I can see this going down like a lead balloon. As someone has said, any barrister worth their salt will likely rip it apart. It's sexist for one.

You have women working alongside men in distribution on the same hourly rate. You have women working alongside men in stores, again on the same hourly rate. How in anyone's world can you award just the women working at stores back pay, what about all the men on the lower rated compared to the men at distribution?

If they can prove the jobs are the same then surely everyone should be due some sort of back pay.

Support the women if you think it is right.

The men will benefit in store too eventually.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 07:46PM
Quote from: Nomad on 07-02-18, 07:26PM
BarryZola, nice piece.  Lets face it folks there are those who would not last a day in a DC but the inverse is also true, those who would have had enough in a store after a day.

Thank you. We all face our hardships in both stores and DC's, neither are an easy job any more, but I genuinely feel it can be argued that we deserve an equivalent wage, as we're providing equivalent value to the company.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 08:05PM
Quote from: nightslave101 on 07-02-18, 07:38PM
I can see this going down like a lead balloon. As someone has said, any barrister worth their salt will likely rip it apart. It's sexist for one.

You have women working alongside men in distribution on the same hourly rate. You have women working alongside men in stores, again on the same hourly rate. How in anyone's world can you award just the women working at stores back pay, what about all the men on the lower rated compared to the men at distribution?

If they can prove the jobs are the same then surely everyone should be due some sort of back pay.

I'm thinking the overall point is that they are fighting for pay equality between all in store workers and DC's, it's probably just the in thing at the moment to play the women vs men card to raise awareness and garner support. It works well apparently. That's cool with me, because there's no way that male in store workers will not be eligible for the same outcome as female workers in the same positions. If the case wins then both women and men in store workers will win. That's an absolute fact. If not, male in store workers would have the strongest sex discrimination case seen ever.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Tape measure on 07-02-18, 08:07PM
Quote from: notsofunny on 07-02-18, 07:25PM
Quote from: Retrokid on 07-02-18, 07:08PM
Quote from: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 06:50PM

How multi-skilled do you have to be for your wage in DC's? Do you have to not only be able to perform your own job to an acceptable standard, but also have to be trained and ready to jump on a checkout, push a dotcom shopping trolley around and have your time etc monitored via computer whilst doing it, go and help unload a lorry because the staff aren't available on back door, jump on the security podium for an hour to cover a break. What about the staff who do the community stuff and provide a service to local schools and stuff taking children around the store along with their teachers showing them how the store operates and teaching them about different foods etc.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Why is it that those that seem to want a pay off have spent all this time working in store rather than moveing to w/house for better pay ? They can still do it if they want but wont  8-) or is it a case that they want something for nothing ?  I still remember that working in a w/house was looked down on and still is by some ,
Having seen some in store I wonder how they could lift a case , since they find it hard just to walk with a trolley


Sorry I didn't realize how hard you had it in stores, showing children around store, community work, sat on checkouts chatting, go on security desk and watch a camera screen.
I've been a fool, picking 24 pallets of spuds and mellons, working in freezers, loading trailers safely to comply with road transport regulation, and 24/7 monitoring. If you do get your pay rise I will be first in line for a store transfer. Incidentally my DC has 50 warehouse vacancies, if your that hard done by go on Tesco careers website, look for vacancies and transfer to Dc. Stop whinging and do it.

May I suggest that if there are those who are unhappy at DC then apply for jobs elsewhere.

Do not be so quick to judge others in the positions they hold in each store. Everyone has their own story of how difficult it's been at times working on their department.

From experience. I have witnessed that some instore night staff assume that shopfloor day staff do little.
It's a different routine to night work. Do some DC staff assume all store staff in general do little as one realises by reading in here!

If you are unhappy with your situation at Tesco then change it. Those who are have sort legal advice. Try not to be so bitter at those wanting change.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: notsofunny on 07-02-18, 08:20PM
In case you are talking to me then , would just point out I worked at stores not DC,

I do agree that those that are unhappy in what ever job they do or what they get paid should apply for jobs they like or for those that pay more ,


Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 07-02-18, 08:29PM
Just a quick question

If DCs dropped their wages to the same rate as shop-floor staff, would there be people in the country that would do the DC jobs?

And if so, why?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 08:32PM
Quote from: notsofunny on 07-02-18, 08:20PM
In case you are talking to me then , would just point out I worked at stores not DC,

I do agree that those that are unhappy in what ever job they do or what they get paid should apply for jobs they like or for those that pay more ,




I used to think this way, but then I saw stupid claims like the women who worked for Birmingham Council getting ridiculous payouts after retiring from jobs they'd happily done for many years. Then I realized that nothing was outside the realms of possibility. Human nature and the growth of such lawsuits says that if other people are getting payouts for things like that, we'll take our piece if and when it comes. I do think that store workers have a genuine case here too. My morals pretty much go out of the window with this one as Tesco didn't think about me too much when taking away my Sunday premiums, overtime premiums, team leader positions, opportunities for management positions, reduced the value of pensions etc. Forgive me for not having much compassion for a company who has shown no compassion for its employees for quite a few years now.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: chris9997 on 07-02-18, 08:55PM
Personally I do think that dc work and store work is very similar the person who states that they picked X amount of pallets good for you,but in store quite often there is no luxury for picking a pallet you have to physically lift most stock, not forgetting the awful stacking from the DC (particularly yougart which h has to be sorted and tidied by someone and the stock that comes on damaged cages ( quite often still with the Yellow fault label still attached)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: notsofunny on 07-02-18, 09:14PM
Quote from: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 08:32PM
Quote from: notsofunny on 07-02-18, 08:20PM
In case you are talking to me then , would just point out I worked at stores not DC,

I do agree that those that are unhappy in what ever job they do or what they get paid should apply for jobs they like or for those that pay more ,




I used to think this way, but then I saw stupid claims like the women who worked for Birmingham Council getting ridiculous payouts after retiring from jobs they'd happily done for many years. Then I realized that nothing was outside the realms of possibility. Human nature and the growth of such lawsuits says that if other people are getting payouts for things like that, we'll take our piece if and when it comes. I do think that store workers have a genuine case here too. My morals pretty much go out of the window with this one as Tesco didn't think about me too much when taking away my Sunday premiums, overtime premiums, team leader positions, opportunities for management positions, reduced the value of pensions etc. Forgive me for not having much compassion for a company who has shown no compassion for its employees for quite a few years now.
So is this all about you getting your own back ?   And for others greed , I used to read about Ambulance casers and what not in the US and wonder how long before it all hit the UK , well it has  :(
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 09:29PM
Quote from: optout on 07-02-18, 08:29PM
Just a quick question

If DCs dropped their wages to the same rate as shop-floor staff, would there be people in the country that would do the DC jobs?

And if so, why?

Yes, I would, if the DC was in my area and I was looking for a job. I've worked in retail since I was 17 and that was a cash and carry firstly. Endless days of lifting TV's around (before they were flat screen), furniture flat-packs etc.

Worked at Tesco after that on nights and the work was hard too. Pulling cages out all night on household etc and then taking what's left back at the end of the night, after throwing all the other boxes of washing powder etc on the shelf all night. A decade on you find yourself on days and you have customers to deal with as well as trying to keep the same things on the shelf and make sure there are no gaps to keep 'availability' up. Add to the fact I may have years of experience and training on Price Integrity, Stock Control, Merchandising, Dotcom, Replenishment, year of filling in on other departments as is expected. There are some people who have been with the company so long that we could probably adequately pick up the duty phone on any given day and do a decent enough job of it until we passed on the details to the nightshift duty. This experience also means that we can cater to customers when they have various problems, hoping to satisfy them. This isn't always easy and comes with experience and maturity in many cases.

Basic rate is a joke for MOST workers in store. Especially the most experienced.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 09:35PM
Quote from: notsofunny on 07-02-18, 09:14PM
Quote from: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 08:32PM
Quote from: notsofunny on 07-02-18, 08:20PM
In case you are talking to me then , would just point out I worked at stores not DC,

I do agree that those that are unhappy in what ever job they do or what they get paid should apply for jobs they like or for those that pay more ,




I used to think this way, but then I saw stupid claims like the women who worked for Birmingham Council getting ridiculous payouts after retiring from jobs they'd happily done for many years. Then I realized that nothing was outside the realms of possibility. Human nature and the growth of such lawsuits says that if other people are getting payouts for things like that, we'll take our piece if and when it comes. I do think that store workers have a genuine case here too. My morals pretty much go out of the window with this one as Tesco didn't think about me too much when taking away my Sunday premiums, overtime premiums, team leader positions, opportunities for management positions, reduced the value of pensions etc. Forgive me for not having much compassion for a company who has shown no compassion for its employees for quite a few years now.
So is this all about you getting your own back ?   And for others greed , I used to read about Ambulance casers and what not in the US and wonder how long before it all hit the UK , well it has  :(

You can't beat them now, it's too late. May as well join 'em. Especially if a law firm is going to do it for you. May as well be happy to grab yours when you can nowadays. Insurance goes up every year and we have to eat that on the fact that the world is full of cheats. Gotta get your piece back whenever you can now. No room for sentiment. Especially when it's related to a company that is happy to take your benefits away from you at any turn.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: twit on 07-02-18, 09:39PM
How sad - internecine fighting over who works hardest to gain £8 or £10 per hour? That pension deficit is due to the company electing to defer paying their committed amount into the pension fund - thereby allowing them to pay shareholders a dividend for gambling.
Workers need to unite - not fight. You're already being abused over your pensions - don't become divided over the lowest hourly rates in the sector.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 09:57PM
Quote from: twit on 07-02-18, 09:39PM
How sad - internecine fighting over who works hardest to gain £8 or £10 per hour? That pension deficit is due to the company electing to defer paying their committed amount into the pension fund - thereby allowing them to pay shareholders a dividend for gambling.
Workers need to unite - not fight. You're already being abused over your pensions - don't become divided over the lowest hourly rates in the sector.

We're not really fighting when you look at the big picture. Us store workers are just looking to get a big massive free payout. Others don't like it 'cus they've wasted their extra money over the years on holidays and hot cars etc,. Now we're gonna be minted ;)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 07-02-18, 10:16PM
Now Now Bazza.. :D

If Booker only had a crystal ball to see how this pans out!

They may decide to give Tosco a body-swerve and stay as they are, which is profitable and successful. Why let Drastic Dave jump on their back like a parasitic bloodsucker?

Time will tell whether they were hoodwinked at the lodge.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 10:22PM
Quote from: OpShunned on 07-02-18, 10:16PM
Now Now Bazza.. :D

If Booker only had a crystal ball to see how this pans out!

They may decide to give Tosco a body-swerve and stay as they are, which is profitable and successful. Why let Drastic Dave jump on their back like a parasitic bloodsucker?

Time will tell whether they were hoodwinked at the lodge.

It's almost as if you have a crystal ball :)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 07-02-18, 10:49PM
The bikes will be getting ditched for a 57 reg Merc. 
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: mexicopete on 07-02-18, 10:55PM
Quote from: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 08:32PM
Quote from: notsofunny on 07-02-18, 08:20PM
In case you are talking to me then , would just point out I worked at stores not DC,

I do agree that those that are unhappy in what ever job they do or what they get paid should apply for jobs they like or for those that pay more ,




I used to think this way, but then I saw stupid claims like the women who worked for Birmingham Council getting ridiculous payouts after retiring from jobs they'd happily done for many years. Then I realized that nothing was outside the realms of possibility. Human nature and the growth of such lawsuits says that if other people are getting payouts for things like that, we'll take our piece if and when it comes. I do think that store workers have a genuine case here too. My morals pretty much go out of the window with this one as Tesco didn't think about me too much when taking away my Sunday premiums, overtime premiums, team leader positions, opportunities for management positions, reduced the value of pensions etc. Forgive me for not having much compassion for a company who has shown no compassion for its employees for quite a few years now.

Spot on post Baz, this company has screwed it's staff for many years under the watchful eye of our wonderful union, who did absolutely nothing to bring them to heel. I couldn't agree more with you and for me the Sunday premium fiasco was the straw that broke the camels back. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 11:23PM
Quote from: mexicopete on 07-02-18, 10:55PM
Quote from: BarryZola on 07-02-18, 08:32PM
Quote from: notsofunny on 07-02-18, 08:20PM
In case you are talking to me then , would just point out I worked at stores not DC,

I do agree that those that are unhappy in what ever job they do or what they get paid should apply for jobs they like or for those that pay more ,




I used to think this way, but then I saw stupid claims like the women who worked for Birmingham Council getting ridiculous payouts after retiring from jobs they'd happily done for many years. Then I realized that nothing was outside the realms of possibility. Human nature and the growth of such lawsuits says that if other people are getting payouts for things like that, we'll take our piece if and when it comes. I do think that store workers have a genuine case here too. My morals pretty much go out of the window with this one as Tesco didn't think about me too much when taking away my Sunday premiums, overtime premiums, team leader positions, opportunities for management positions, reduced the value of pensions etc. Forgive me for not having much compassion for a company who has shown no compassion for its employees for quite a few years now.

Spot on post Baz, this company has screwed it's staff for many years under the watchful eye of our wonderful union, who did absolutely nothing to bring them to heel. I couldn't agree more with you and for me the Sunday premium fiasco was the straw that broke the camels back. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Defo. They're taking away the Sunday premium. We'll probably only get a few hundred quid clean after tax when they cut the rate (maybe £500 if we're lucky?). Where was Usdaw? Any organisation worth their salt would have told them to stuff themselves I would hope.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 07-02-18, 11:27PM
Redundancy and a top up from equal pay hopefully    ;)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 07-02-18, 11:40PM
As far as I am aware (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong), rates in stores are standardised dependant on the role.

It seems Leigh day have limited and some could say bias points of reference, do they believe Distribution is standardised like retail? Because they are not, there are several hourly rates for the same role within Distribution, in retail if you transfer as a GA from one location to another providing the store format is the same, your hourly rate remains the same doesn't it?
Within Distribution that is not the case, there are different Warehouse Hourly rates. Dependant on the History of your contract type warehouse workers in group 1 are paid a different hourly rate than workers in group 2 at another location who's negotiating group is different.
How can sector A draw a comparison with sector B and insist on the same As B when sector B has disparity within it. Do claimants and their legal team view Distributions hourly rates and the negotiating method as the same as that of stores? A big yet illformed or basic mistake

Sunday Premium claim ? What happened with that?

Distribution Pay is far more fragmented than stores, stores are far more consistent, All locations within retail negotiate as 1 group. That approach has far more scope to challenge an inappropriate hourly rate, that process has not even tried to address the underlying basis of this claim. Parity with Distribution for equal value work.

I believe people should be paid the correct wage for what they do.
I believe the claim and the information which probably isn't fully understood that will have to be fully considered will be too complicated to simply say a shop workers hourly rate should be the same as a Distribution workers hourly rate. Particularly when it can be shown that Distribution Hourly Rates vary and are not the same anyway.
There is to much complexity to make such a simplistic judgement.


Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 07-02-18, 11:44PM
Quote from: Duracell on 07-02-18, 11:40PM
As far as I am aware (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong), rates in stores are standardised dependant on the role.

It seems Leigh day have limited and some could say bias points of reference, do they believe Distribution is standardised like retail? Because they are not, there are several hourly rates for the same role within Distribution, in retail if you transfer as a GA from one location to another providing the store format is the same, your hourly rate remains the same doesn't it?
Within Distribution that is not the case, there are different Warehouse Hourly rates. Dependant on the History of your contract type warehouse workers in group 1 are paid a different hourly rate than workers in group 2 at another location who's negotiating group is different.
How can sector A draw a comparison with sector B and insist on the same As B when sector B has disparity within it. Do claimants and their legal team view Distributions hourly rates and the negotiating method as the same as that of stores? A big yet illformed or basic mistake

That's nice!
Sunday Premium claim ? What happened with that?

Distribution Pay is far more fragmented than stores, stores are far more consistent, All locations within retail negotiate as 1 group. That approach has far more scope to challenge an inappropriate hourly rate, that process has not even tried to address the underlying basis of this claim. Parity with Distribution for equal value work.

I believe people should be paid the correct wage for what they do.
I believe the claim and the information which probably isn't fully understood that will have to be fully considered will be too complicated to simply say a shop workers hourly rate should be the same as a Distribution workers hourly rate. Particularly when it can be shown that Distribution Hourly Rates vary and are not the same anyway.
There is to much complexity to make such a simplistic judgement.

That's nice
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: billandben on 08-02-18, 12:12AM
It shows that DC's have a better union
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 08-02-18, 12:32AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdOCWUgwiWs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdOCWUgwiWs)

Union :question:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lackofinterest on 08-02-18, 01:34AM
those were the days :), then thatcher ruined them :'(
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 08-02-18, 02:24AM
Why could DC staff in lower paid dc's not make a claim then ?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Sugar bum on 08-02-18, 06:58AM
I use to work on stock control, it was bloody hard work , I left last year , would I still get a pay out if it goes ahead ?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Rigger on 08-02-18, 07:34AM
People counting money already  ;D

The world has gone mad.



Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: dogslave on 08-02-18, 08:24AM
This will not succeed I am afraid.  Do not get me wrong I would love Tosco to loose as I hate this bag of s***e company as much as the next man/woman.  But it is not the same work is it.  Again I would love Tosco to loose but again they will not.  Look at depots paying different rates for same job because people started at different times.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 08-02-18, 10:36AM
"Look at depots paying different rates for same job because people started at different times." indeed they do and that is so wrong also (unless the longer term employee has obtained a recognised enhanced skill set).

All disparity in wages is utilised by companies to implement divide and conquer tactics, and some employees by their action or inaction assist them in those tactics.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: blutopia on 08-02-18, 11:11AM
Quote from: nightslave101 on 07-02-18, 07:38PM
I can see this going down like a lead balloon. As someone has said, any barrister worth their salt will likely rip it apart. It's sexist for one.

You have women working alongside men in distribution on the same hourly rate. You have women working alongside men in stores, again on the same hourly rate. How in anyone's world can you award just the women working at stores back pay, what about all the men on the lower rated compared to the men at distribution?

If they can prove the jobs are the same then surely everyone should be due some sort of back pay.

As you say, men and women are paid the same in their respective parts of the business, so it's not a simple issue of sex discrimination.  The argument is about whether work in stores is of equal value to work in DCs, but that ALONE is not an issue within the remit of a court.

Several posters here have been saying that store colleagues wouldn't hack working in DCs and, in my opinion, that IS an area worth investigating.  While, of course, there are a lot of women who are stronger and tougher than a lot of men, can there be any argument that, overall, men tend to be stronger than women?  If so, if the job in DCs requires physical attributes that disproportionately favour men, that could be open to a legal challenge.  Linking that to pay, it could be argued that women are disproportionately prevented from working in a higher paid part of the business due to the physical demands designed into the job role.

Taking these issues further, how many women work in BWS replenishment in the larger stores?  Having worked in several stores over the years, I've NEVER seen it.  Arguably, men are being discriminated against by being required to work in a physically harder role than women for the same rate of pay.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 08-02-18, 12:25PM
Quote from: Welshie on 08-02-18, 02:24AM
Why could DC staff in lower paid dc's not make a claim then ?

What Claim would they make? What would be the foundation for the claim?
They can't be on board with the current one because the criteria for this claim would not be met.
Basically you need to be a woman in retail to be a claimant. I don't see a claim from a male in retail being possible comparing to females in Distribution being paid a higher rate because that would then undermine the claim for women in retail, as it would show that pay rates are established and set based on divisional differences and industry standards rather than the protected characteristic of gender, without that, there is no claim.

Quote from: Nomad on 08-02-18, 10:36AM
"Look at depots paying different rates for same job because people started at different times." indeed they do and that is so wrong also (unless the longer term employee has obtained a recognised enhanced skill set).

All disparity in wages is utilised by companies to implement divide and conquer tactics, and some employees by their action or inaction assist them in those tactics.

All disparity?
Ironical some of the claimants don't share your view. As the daily mail quotes show.
They were disgruntled to lose double time for Sunday's, wanted to retain it even though others didn't get it in their own division of the company. Yet the disparity across different divisions is a problem.
Where their negotiating group had the ability to standardise and set about addressing disparity, they objected, yet they want a broader comparison and standardisation accross a greater group , which is virtually impossible for any one negotiating group to achieve let alone the many different negotiating groups that actually exist.

No union can realistically be involved in such a claim as to do so undermine their own involvement in past pay negs and reviews.
Retail current rates are established and agreed through a recognised procedural process that unions and staff are part of yet They are being challenged as part of a broader principle. The claimants challenging disparity are bound and part of a process that set and establishes the rates in the first place.

To disagree to ANY disparity at all in pay, conditions and entitlement is a very dangerous and undermining stance to have for employee terms in general.

It means everyone should have the same holiday entitlement, sick entitlement etc etc.

Anyone that thinks that employee relations and negotiating with the company is tough now, think how bad will it become and how easy will it be for the company to erode decades of enhanced entitlement if a wider one sized glove fits all mentality is given to them.

Quote from: blutopia on 08-02-18, 11:11AM
Quote from: nightslave101 on 07-02-18, 07:38PM
I can see this going down like a lead balloon. As someone has said, any barrister worth their salt will likely rip it apart. It's sexist for one.

You have women working alongside men in distribution on the same hourly rate. You have women working alongside men in stores, again on the same hourly rate. How in anyone's world can you award just the women working at stores back pay, what about all the men on the lower rated compared to the men at distribution?

If they can prove the jobs are the same then surely everyone should be due some sort of back pay.

As you say, men and women are paid the same in their respective parts of the business, so it's not a simple issue of sex discrimination.  The argument is about whether work in stores is of equal value to work in DCs, but that ALONE is not an issue within the remit of a court.

Several posters here have been saying that store colleagues wouldn't hack working in DCs and, in my opinion, that IS an area worth investigating.  While, of course, there are a lot of women who are stronger and tougher than a lot of men, can there be any argument that, overall, men tend to be stronger than women?  If so, if the job in DCs requires physical attributes that disproportionately favour men, that could be open to a legal challenge.  Linking that to pay, it could be argued that women are disproportionately prevented from working in a higher paid part of the business due to the physical demands designed into the job role.

Taking these issues further, how many women work in BWS replenishment in the larger stores?  Having worked in several stores over the years, I've NEVER seen it.  Arguably, men are being discriminated against by being required to work in a physically harder role than women for the same rate of pay.

Who is going to decide that as fact, the court won't surely,  as they are then inherently gender bias and guilty of discrimination themselves.

But to get to that point they would have established that warehouse work is more physically demanding, they establish the role is physically harder than a retail role, which makes it harder to retain staff in that area that role then is more appreciated and of Greater value and attracts more, enhanced higher rates to retain and attract the right skill set for a given role is and always has been a perefectly acceptable Mentality across all industries and Professions. Ironically that is Particulary evident at executive and legal professional levels that will be deciding and arguing the rights wrongs pros and cons of this case. I'm confident that the barrister representing the claimants would have no problem and probably does accept higher pay than other colleagues for Leigh Day to keep and retain his skill set.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 08-02-18, 01:22PM
"Anyone that thinks that employee relations and negotiating with the company is tough now, think how bad will it become and how easy will it be for the company to erode decades of enhanced entitlement if a wider one sized glove fits all mentality is given to them."

Maybe the glove would be a bit softer if they know they're going to be scrutinized when they make crappy decisions which affect staff negatively. Or we can just stick with the union who slowly but surely allow the powers that be erode our pay and benefits.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Tape measure on 08-02-18, 01:39PM
Quote from: Duracell on 08-02-18, 12:25PM
Quote from: Welshie on 08-02-18, 02:24AM
Why could DC staff in lower paid dc's not make a claim then ?

What Claim would they make? What would be the foundation for the claim?
They can't be on board with the current one because the criteria for this claim would not be met.
Basically you need to be a woman in retail to be a claimant. I don't see a claim from a male in retail being possible comparing to females in Distribution being paid a higher rate because that would then undermine the claim for women in retail, as it would show that pay rates are established and set based on divisional differences and industry standards rather than the protected characteristic of gender, without that, there is no claim.

Quote from: Nomad on 08-02-18, 10:36AM
"Look at depots paying different rates for same job because people started at different times." indeed they do and that is so wrong also (unless the longer term employee has obtained a recognised enhanced skill set).

All disparity in wages is utilised by companies to implement divide and conquer tactics, and some employees by their action or inaction assist them in those tactics.

All disparity?
Ironical some of the claimants don't share your view. As the daily mail quotes show.
They were disgruntled to lose double time for Sunday's, wanted to retain it even though others didn't get it in their own division of the company. Yet the disparity across different divisions is a problem.
Where their negotiating group had the ability to standardise and set about addressing disparity, they objected, yet they want a broader comparison and standardisation accross a greater group , which is virtually impossible for any one negotiating group to achieve let alone the many different negotiating groups that actually exist.

No union can realistically be involved in such a claim as to do so undermine their own involvement in past pay negs and reviews.
Retail current rates are established and agreed through a recognised procedural process that unions and staff are part of yet They are being challenged as part of a broader principle. The claimants challenging disparity are bound and part of a process that set and establishes the rates in the first place.

To disagree to ANY disparity at all in pay, conditions and entitlement is a very dangerous and undermining stance to have for employee terms in general.

It means everyone should have the same holiday entitlement, sick entitlement etc etc.

Anyone that thinks that employee relations and negotiating with the company is tough now, think how bad will it become and how easy will it be for the company to erode decades of enhanced entitlement if a wider one sized glove fits all mentality is given to them.

Quote from: blutopia on 08-02-18, 11:11AM
Quote from: nightslave101 on 07-02-18, 07:38PM
I can see this going down like a lead balloon. As someone has said, any barrister worth their salt will likely rip it apart. It's sexist for one.

You have women working alongside men in distribution on the same hourly rate. You have women working alongside men in stores, again on the same hourly rate. How in anyone's world can you award just the women working at stores back pay, what about all the men on the lower rated compared to the men at distribution?

If they can prove the jobs are the same then surely everyone should be due some sort of back pay.

As you say, men and women are paid the same in their respective parts of the business, so it's not a simple issue of sex discrimination.  The argument is about whether work in stores is of equal value to work in DCs, but that ALONE is not an issue within the remit of a court.

Several posters here have been saying that store colleagues wouldn't hack working in DCs and, in my opinion, that IS an area worth investigating.  While, of course, there are a lot of women who are stronger and tougher than a lot of men, can there be any argument that, overall, men tend to be stronger than women?  If so, if the job in DCs requires physical attributes that disproportionately favour men, that could be open to a legal challenge.  Linking that to pay, it could be argued that women are disproportionately prevented from working in a higher paid part of the business due to the physical demands designed into the job role.

Taking these issues further, how many women work in BWS replenishment in the larger stores?  Having worked in several stores over the years, I've NEVER seen it.  Arguably, men are being discriminated against by being required to work in a physically harder role than women for the same rate of pay.

Who is going to decide that as fact, the court won't surely,  as they are then inherently gender bias and guilty of discrimination themselves.

But to get to that point they would have established that warehouse work is more physically demanding, they establish the role is physically harder than a retail role, which makes it harder to retain staff in that area that role then is more appreciated and of Greater value and attracts more, enhanced higher rates to retain and attract the right skill set for a given role is and always has been a perefectly acceptable Mentality across all industries and Professions. Ironically that is Particulary evident at executive and legal professional levels that will be deciding and arguing the rights wrongs pros and cons of this case. I'm confident that the barrister representing the claimants would have no problem and probably does accept higher pay than other colleagues for Leigh Day to keep and retain his skill set.


Do you mind me asking what position you hold at Tesco please?

I would not take any quotes from a newspaper as a means to make a point of reference.
The law is complex and many hurdles involved. The law firm in question will collate much information and will try and make a case.

People need to stay positive and deal in facts and with those who are experienced in law as their point of reference.
There will always be those who will try to muddy the waters and create a sense of no hope.

Good luck.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 08-02-18, 01:47PM
No hope  ;D

Look at Asda who have had the same claim lodged against them.

Asda are appealing because they know they've not got the cash
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OvaSees on 08-02-18, 02:08PM
Duracell that's a brilliant post and very well reasoned!

I've said right from the start - this case is a gender discrimination case masquerading as unfair pay practices. It would have had some merit if it was cashiers arguing they should be earning as much as CSD (the old grade D) colleagues - very easily comparable jobs arguably equal in value yet a pay disparity exists. The problem is, if that was the case it would never see light of day because both of those populations are predominantly female.

Any of the 'claimants' in this case can already earn the same as any DC colleague - by working in a DC. That opportunity has never been denied to them.

Quote from: Weed on 08-02-18, 01:47PM
Asda are appealing because they know they've not got the cash
Or perhaps because they believe the ruling is unjust and unfair, since pay parity will ultimately penalise their distribution colleagues who will have to sacrifice an element of their pay to fund increases for everyone else until that parity is achieved? At which point all their DC colleagues will simply jump on tills and earn the same for much less physical effort.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 08-02-18, 02:24PM
Quote from: OvaSees on 08-02-18, 02:08PM
Duracell that's a brilliant post and very well reasoned!

I've said right from the start - this case is a gender discrimination case masquerading as unfair pay practices. It would have had some merit if it was cashiers arguing they should be earning as much as CSD (the old grade D) colleagues - very easily comparable jobs arguably equal in value yet a pay disparity exists. The problem is, if that was the case it would never see light of day because both of those populations are predominantly female.

Any of the 'claimants' in this case can already earn the same as any DC colleague - by working in a DC. That opportunity has never been denied to them.

Quote from: Weed on 08-02-18, 01:47PM
Asda are appealing because they know they've not got the cash
Or perhaps because they believe the ruling is unjust and unfair, since pay parity will ultimately penalise their distribution colleagues who will have to sacrifice an element of their pay to fund increases for everyone else until that parity is achieved? At which point all their DC colleagues will simply jump on tills and earn the same for much less physical effort.

But they won't though will they? How many men do you know who want to be known as the guy who works as a checkout guy full-time?

Have you not realized that the world is going a bit crazy and people and organizations are winning legal cases that seemed bizarre 20-30 years ago? These guys/gals have taken a decent punt on this, will have formed a decent case, have some encouragement from the courts, and it may just happen with a bit of luck. However unjust you may think it is, doesn't matter too much.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 08-02-18, 02:33PM
I don't like checkouts, but for £9-10 I'd happily sit on my arse all day having a wee gossip with Doris.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 08-02-18, 03:14PM
Another arguement is tesco very rarely employ people full time any more you are lucky if they give you 11 hours on flexi contracts ,can't see many wanting those limited amount of hours.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: fargone on 08-02-18, 04:01PM
Who's gonna pay for it?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: blutopia on 08-02-18, 04:55PM
Quote from: Duracell on 08-02-18, 12:25PM
...But to get to that point they would have established that warehouse work is more physically demanding, they establish the role is physically harder than a retail role, which makes it harder to retain staff in that area that role then is more appreciated and of Greater value and attracts more, enhanced higher rates to retain and attract the right skill set for a given role is and always has been a perefectly acceptable Mentality across all industries and Professions.

I don't disagree that this is a perfectly valid counter-claim.  What I don't know from a legal point of view, is whether that is sufficient justification for the difference in pay levels or is itself discriminatory because the physical demands may disproportionately deter women from the better paid job.  In all honesty, I could argue it both ways.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: flowerpower on 08-02-18, 05:00PM
But night staff work a lot harder than day staff my other half works in a dc he sometimes shops late he said tbf he thinks it looks like pretty hard work filling at night
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: fargone on 08-02-18, 05:03PM
I bet that most of the heavy lifting in stores is done by men.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: flowerpower on 08-02-18, 05:04PM
I work on pi on nights I see what's going on they are under pressure to get shop filled ready for the next day and do a good job until dot com come along and undo all their hard work
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: flowerpower on 08-02-18, 05:08PM
Fargone
Get a grip plenty of women work on same stock as the men
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Horrendous123 on 08-02-18, 05:10PM
it's absolutely f**king ridiculous. I don't like tesco and dislike the way they treat staff in general but that is not gender specific. so what's going to happen if these women win their claim and men are then underpaid doing the exact same job in the same store! there are loads of men who work on checkouts, so you are desclriminating against them by paying them less than the women. Yes, this may not be the premise for the original case but they will be opening up a massive can of worms which shouldn't need to be opened up with common ssense which this country seems to increasingly lack in situations like this
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lackofinterest on 08-02-18, 05:12PM
Quote from: flowerpower on 08-02-18, 05:00PM
But night staff work a lot harder than day staff my other half works in a dc he sometimes shops late he said tbf he thinks it looks like pretty hard work filling at night
a matter of personal opinion. go on days then for an easy life. after all the night allowance is a joke :-X
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 08-02-18, 05:13PM
If we can't agree on here and between us we do most of the jobs in question , what hope does a bunch of legal eagles have when they generally sit in offices looking at reports and reference books? We'll probably still be speculating on this in 5yrs time !
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: flowerpower on 08-02-18, 05:13PM
I think people have had enough if you work nights and Sundays over the last few years all stressco has done is take money off people the worm was always going to turn at some point
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lackofinterest on 08-02-18, 05:16PM
Quote from: flowerpower on 08-02-18, 05:08PM
Fargone
Get a grip plenty of women work on same stock as the men
I've yet to see any woman in my store pull a pallet of beer or such like. in fact I've never seen any lift anything remotely heavy 8-)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: the rule book on 08-02-18, 05:16PM
The jobs are disproportionate and are not equally paid. Being  on the same rate for different roles is unfair when people are only allocated certain roles on a regular basis.

65 year old Doris should be rotated to do tills one week, backdoor next week, produce the week after, pi the week after that and a bit of time on merch.


Unfortunately multiskil is anything but.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lackofinterest on 08-02-18, 05:18PM
Quote from: Horrendous123 on 08-02-18, 05:10PM
it's absolutely f**king ridiculous. I don't like tesco and dislike the way they treat staff in general but that is not gender specific. so what's going to happen if these women win their claim and men are then underpaid doing the exact same job in the same store! there are loads of men who work on checkouts, so you are desclriminating against them by paying them less than the women. Yes, this may not be the premise for the original case but they will be opening up a massive can of worms which shouldn't need to be opened up with common ssense which this country seems to increasingly lack in situations like this

common sense ceased to exist in society a long time ago
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: flowerpower on 08-02-18, 05:20PM
It won't be just women who would get it everyone would
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lackofinterest on 08-02-18, 05:21PM
Quote from: fargone on 08-02-18, 05:03PM
I bet that most of the heavy lifting in stores is done by men.
not most. ALL in my store!!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lackofinterest on 08-02-18, 05:25PM
Quote from: the rule book on 08-02-18, 05:16PM
The jobs are disproportionate and are not equally paid. Being  on the same rate for different roles is unfair when people are only allocated certain roles on a regular basis.

65 year old Doris should be rotated to do tills one week, backdoor next week, produce the week after, pi the week after that and a bit of time on merch.


Unfortunately multiskil is anything but.
how very true. as far as i know not one female has been trained on back door in my store, in all the years I've been there
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: flowerpower on 08-02-18, 05:28PM
I've never even thought about stores getting the same as dcs before x but thinking about why not who's more important the people in dcs or the staff at the other end who unload lorries drag cages to each dept warehouse then fill the shelves the checkout people who have to serve some vile people that come to store get abuse off them and have to sit and smile
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: flowerpower on 08-02-18, 05:31PM
We have a female who works back door all staff at night are called to take deliveries male and female
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: madness on 08-02-18, 05:31PM
Take a look at most of the checkout operators in the big tescos. Quite often it is the end of the line job for those that can't be trusted not to doss about on the shop floor or can't physically walk more than 20 meters without getting out of puff. Obviously there are exceptions but this is mostly true.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: flowerpower on 08-02-18, 05:37PM
You are talking about fellow works yes some on checkouts are there for medical reasons I've worked on checkouts in the past it is stressful in it's own way would most people in dcs work on a checkout and smile and be nice to some of the nastiest people that come through those checkouts
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: flowerpower on 08-02-18, 05:43PM
As I say I work pi and we see a lot of what goes on in stores my other half works in a dc not stressco he tells me about what happens in dcs so I can see both sides . And I'm sure he won't mind if I had a nice big pay rise  ;D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: tumshie on 08-02-18, 06:17PM
Quote from: blutopia on 08-02-18, 11:11AM
As you say, men and women are paid the same in their respective parts of the business, so it's not a simple issue of sex discrimination.  The argument is about whether work in stores is of equal value to work in DCs, but that ALONE is not an issue within the remit of a court.

Why not?
The Equal Pay Act says that work of equal worth should be paid equally. Who else is going to decide on whether that's being done or not, other than a court?

There's a lot of moaning here about men doing heavy lifting. Why not, if they have an ability (muscular strength)?
It doesn't mean that a man or a woman who has different abilities (eg people skills, or organisational ability) should be paid less, if all those things are needed by the company.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: tumshie on 08-02-18, 06:21PM

Quote from: the rule book on 08-02-18, 05:16PM
65 year old Doris should be rotated to do tills one week, backdoor next week, produce the week after, pi the week after that and a bit of time on merch.

Unfortunately multiskil is anything but.

Why pick on 65-year old Doris? What about 25-year old Shane who likes to hide in corners fiddling with his phone?

for what it's worth, in our store some of the most diligent and effective workers are older ladies.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 08-02-18, 06:30PM
Most dc's  are desperate for new staff so why doesn't everyone who wants more pay transfer to one?.... simple!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OvaSees on 08-02-18, 06:31PM
^Hallelujah!

Quote from: BarryZolaBut they won't though will they? How many men do you know who want to be known as the guy who works as a checkout guy full-time?
That's precisely the point. What people do - and thus how much they end up getting paid - is down to choice. How many women do you know who want to be known as the gal who works as a coal miner? Not very many I'd guess, but I bet they'd want the money it brings. Same principle here, just different scales of of money - the claimants want DC rates of pay to stay sat right where they are on a till. It's the best case for accelerating the roll-out of more self scan tills that Tesco could ever hope for - and it will be cheaper.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: the rule book on 08-02-18, 06:49PM
Quote from: tumshie on 08-02-18, 06:21PM


Quote from: the rule book on 08-02-18, 05:16PM
65 year old Doris should be rotated to do tills one week, backdoor next week, produce the week after, pi the week after that and a bit of time on merch.

Unfortunately multiskil is anything but.

Why pick on 65-year old Doris? What about 25-year old Shane who likes to hide in corners fiddling with his phone?

for what it's worth, in our store some of the most diligent and effective workers are older ladies.




The point of the post is multi skill  workers are a nonsense to pay higher paying jobs less using the multi skill tag.

Back door checkers are responsible for and signing off all the goods coming through the back door.

The checkout staff are responsible for money and taking care of customers at a checkout. Both paid exactly the same as the trolly boy who's responsible for not scratching customers cars.


How is that equal pay? The responsibility levels are on massively different scales.

merch have almost no responsibility or time scales to work to yet paid the same.

Pi has responsibilities that are much higher in the form. Of legality of the shop.

This makes a complete nonsense of fare pay as most back door and checkout staff have to multi skill on the fly Doing filling jobs or collecting trolleys.

Doubling the responsibility for less pay.

Why has the union or staff not picked up on this as equal pay?






Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 08-02-18, 06:53PM
In Dc's staff are trained on 4/6 cage picking trucks, fail the test on induction and you haven't a job. There are 4/6 cage loading trucks to drive, reach truck and counterbalance trucks. How many stores have these?
I've only ever seen the pedestrian trucks in stores.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: chris9997 on 08-02-18, 06:55PM
you can not compare checkout as dont they get paid more than a ga anyway.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Tape measure on 08-02-18, 06:57PM
Identity politics. It was fashionable and has been for the past several years or so.  Though now is very much central to how large companies can operate. They have fully embraced it and how it can rejuvenate their image. Yes of course the law is involved and employers have to protect their staff by law which I fully understand but while this is happening, in the background there are people who are feeling the financial squeeze.  People are wanting better workplace conditions and better pay. They want equality in all areas.

Companies love to advertise how diverse they are but stop and stutter it appears when salaries are involved. It can be so divided. Equality appears to fade away when money is involved.

What I have learnt from this thread is that there are those who appear to know much about this case though its not really fully understood and the case is live.  There are those who appear to know the outcome already! Those who appear to want it to fail it appears! There are those who have what I've always referred to as, job snobbery. Don't knock a job! Plus a hint of old fashioned sexism dare I say thrown in too!

I hope a solution can be made.  Listen to the experts involved and not scare mongers.
Remember that as boring as it appears. We are all part of this company and should appreciate how people feel and not be so bitter. It is about the customer. I know what you may think but it is.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: flowerpower on 08-02-18, 07:01PM
Checkouts do not get paid more than ga that stopped years ago when multi skilling came in
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: flowerpower on 08-02-18, 07:04PM
Tapemeasure
Well said everyone in the company is just essential as the next person
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lackofinterest on 08-02-18, 07:08PM
Quote from: tumshie on 08-02-18, 06:21PM

Quote from: the rule book on 08-02-18, 05:16PM
65 year old Doris should be rotated to do tills one week, backdoor next week, produce the week after, pi the week after that and a bit of time on merch.

Unfortunately multiskil is anything but.

Why pick on 65-year old Doris? What about 25-year old Shane who likes to hide in corners fiddling with his phone?

for what it's worth, in our store some of the most diligent and effective workers are older ladies.


not THE Shane?!? ??? ;)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lackofinterest on 08-02-18, 07:10PM
Quote from: Carparkpothole on 08-02-18, 06:30PM
Most dc's  are desperate for new staff so why doesn't everyone who wants more pay transfer to one?.... simple!!!!!!!!!
and the same goes to anybody who thinks night shift work harder than day shift!!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: the rule book on 08-02-18, 07:19PM
Quote from: flowerpower on 08-02-18, 07:01PM
Checkouts do not get paid more than ga that stopped years ago when multi skilling came in


Exactly the point checkouts are paid less than some one who is paid to fill turnips and bananas. Yet the responsibility level is much higher.

Its completely unequal pay. We may be all needed  and all Of value but we are given such different levels of responsibility and risk the pay is unfair.
Different jobs require different pay.


Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 08-02-18, 07:21PM
Quote from: lackofinterest on 08-02-18, 07:08PM
Quote from: tumshie on 08-02-18, 06:21PM

Quote from: the rule book on 08-02-18, 05:16PM
65 year old Doris should be rotated to do tills one week, backdoor next week, produce the week after, pi the week after that and a bit of time on merch.

Unfortunately multiskil is anything but.

Why pick on 65-year old Doris? What about 25-year old Shane who likes to hide in corners fiddling with his phone?

for what it's worth, in our store some of the most diligent and effective workers are older ladies.


not THE Shane?!? ??? ;)

No shame in Shane  ;D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: anfield on 08-02-18, 08:32PM
Lack of interest , do a week on nights , try doing your minerals aisle , caps back stock , delivery . oh yes when your finished help the guy in bws . Remember there's no fun at work on nights, there's no superstar awards to pacify your ego and you will definitely require a change of uniform and shower before your next shift. Your a funny guy.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 08-02-18, 08:37PM
Ulsterboy  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: fargone on 08-02-18, 08:38PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocs5O2Gu7BU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocs5O2Gu7BU)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Tape measure on 08-02-18, 09:27PM
Identity politics. It was fashionable and has been for the past several years or so.  Though now is very much central to how large companies can operate. They have fully embraced it and how it can rejuvenate their image. Yes of course the law is involved and employers have to protect their staff by law which I fully understand but while this is happening, in the background there are people who are feeling the financial squeeze.  People are wanting better workplace conditions and better pay. They want equality in all areas.

Companies love to advertise how diverse they are but stop and stutter it appears when salaries are involved. It can be so divided. Equality appears to fade away when money is involved.

What I have learnt from this thread is that there are those who appear to know much about this case though its not really fully understood and the case is live.  There are those who appear to know the outcome already! Those who appear to want it to fail it appears! There are those who have what I've always referred to as, job snobbery. Don't knock a job! Plus a hint of old fashioned sexism dare I say thrown in too!

I hope a solution can be made.  Listen to the experts involved and not scare mongers.
Remember that as boring as it appears. We are all part of this company and should appreciate how people feel and not be so bitter. It is about the customer. I know what you may think but it is.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 08-02-18, 10:30PM
Tape measure :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 08-02-18, 11:00PM
Lots of talk on TV -Question Time  ;D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 09-02-18, 02:19AM
Quote from: Carparkpothole on 08-02-18, 06:30PM
Most dc's  are desperate for new staff so why doesn't everyone who wants more pay transfer to one?.... simple!!!!!!!!!
Because most depots are miles from some tesco and no one wants to drive 2or 3 hours to work and then same home again.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 09-02-18, 07:24AM
Most staff at dc's have travelled thousands of miles to work at one. There are distribution  centres for any company all over the UK. This whole argument has nothing to do with gender at all.
If stores paid the same as dc's then there would be no vacancies in store and lack of staff in dc's  (trust me this would happen).

If there was an equal pay rate then Tesco could make store staff work at their nearest dc to cover lack of staff, known as needs of the business. Some people should be careful what they wish for.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 09-02-18, 08:14AM
It's easy to get agency staff for DC and shop floor (I'm not saying they're any good) but they don't let agency staff work check-outs , customer services or pfs , so should those roles be paid more ?
Reality is if the DC guys don't pick it or  the shop floor guys don't put it on a shelf  or the check-outs guys aren't there to take the money or man self serve or scan as you shop , then the whole thing grinds to a halt . Everyone plays their part so does that mean it's of equal value ?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Shafted on 09-02-18, 10:00AM
Apparently different depots are on different rates of pay so for me I would find that more inconsistent than a comparison to stores. Location pay can mean some store pay is different to other parts of the country. Where do you draw the line? I work in a store and personally don't the work is comparable but is it of equal value? To the company it may well be as stated previously all the cogs have to turn to meet the customer expectation. Can you compare a cold warehouse to a store where the minute it's 18 degrees they're complaining its cold? Perhaps tesco need to look at the way pay is structured and include different elements for certain conditions. It will be interesting to see the outcome of this. Always some lawyer loooking to make a  name for themself and the cause may be successful but at the least it's more bad Tesco press. The woman on tv has worked here 20 years, could have mentioned it a bit sooner, wonder where she got the idea from?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: chris9997 on 09-02-18, 10:14AM
i dont see the claim being successful as tesco will recone that they are two seperate companies tesco stores ltd and tesco distribution ltd in both areas men and women earn the same its just different in different environments, if the big t had any idea of a win they will put the best legal teams together and if they spend £xxx millions doing so it will be considered well spent compaired to the £4bn+, however if it did win and they spent the £4bn and the cost of lawyers who knows.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: redcar renegade on 09-02-18, 10:27AM
I work in  a D.C and all members of staff earn the same rate of pay. I work loading trailers in the recent cold weather i was working at -3 c when its scorching hot you suffer. Not to belittle any store staff but come to Middlesbrough D.C try it if you like the working conditions get a transfer but may i point out we are not on £11/hr like in tbe press, female, male or what ever you consider yourself all welcome come give it a try
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 09-02-18, 10:35AM
Distribution's biggest concern currently isn't this one but the Booker merger looming large on the horizon. Personally, I wouldn't advise anyone 'giving it a try' because in 6 months time you could be staring down the barrel of something nasty (synergised  8-))...Anyway its good to see this topic has attracted more interest than it did last March when it surfaced. Saw very little support for it back then, in fact there more was objection than support. Colleagues wanted to see how it panned out with Asda and sainsburys before committing to the cause.

Anyone reading who wants to take it up with Leigh Day, and instead of trawling back through for contact details here they are. .. and good luck.


https://www.leighday.co.uk/Employment-discrimination/Current-cases/Tesco-equal-pay-claim (https://www.leighday.co.uk/Employment-discrimination/Current-cases/Tesco-equal-pay-claim)

Tesco Equal Pay Claim


Leigh Day is currently bringing a claim on behalf of Tesco store workers for equal pay. We are doing so to promote equality and challenge how large retailers pay their employees in different areas of their business.

Equal pay claims

Equal pay claims for supermarket employees are about whether hourly-paid store staff carry out work that is of "equal value" to that carried out by the staff who work in the distribution centres. The staff working in the stores are mostly women and the staff working in the distribution centres are mostly men. 

If it is shown that their work is of equal value, and we can show that the reason for the difference in pay is due to their gender and cant be justified, then the equal pay claims will be successful. We believe that we will be successful in these equal pay claims against Tesco as well as those we are running against Asda and Sainsburys.

Who can claim?

Anyone, female or male, who has worked at a Tesco store in England, Northern Ireland or Wales in the last six years, or Scotland in the last five years.

If you have worked for Tesco for more than 6 years will be entitled to the maximum amount of back pay.

Should you wish to instruct Leigh Day to represent you in this claim, please contact us at tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk or on 0800 689 0570

Please be assured that strong victimisation laws are in place to prevent any negative action being taken against you for bringing an equal pay claim. If you have any concerns about this, you can call 0207 650 1228 and speak to our team in confidence.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 09-02-18, 11:29AM
So lower rate warehouse staff can apply then?
Which depots hourly rate are they matching up with?
Will the claim, if successful, lead to a recession in the UK?
Has anybody thought that the customer for a dc is the store and not the general public?
Store staff are employed by Tesco stores and DC staff are employed by Tesco distribution where different skills are required. Could that be the difference?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 09-02-18, 11:41AM
All the same company
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 09-02-18, 04:14PM
I'm not surprised that a considerable number of VLH members think this claim will fail, what is surprising is the number that hope it will fail.  After all it is not about lowering other peoples earnings.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 09-02-18, 04:36PM
So is it mean that hard working , multiskilled store staff should be paid more aswell.
Where to sign???!!!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 09-02-18, 04:38PM
So was I Nomad. After all, isn't it better when everyone gains, each is pulled up by the one in front?

The likelihood anyway is that Tesco colleagues' fate relies on what happens to Asda and Sainsbury's claim, given the exact nature (almost) of the conditions. Will Distribution colleagues try to garner sympathy and support when they get 'Synergised'? I will support them.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 09-02-18, 05:31PM
Quote from: Nomad on 09-02-18, 04:14PM
I'm not surprised that a considerable number of VLH members think this claim will fail, what is surprising is the number that hope it will fail.  After all it is not about lowering other peoples earnings.

I don't think it will fail, I don't hope it will fail.

My opinion is the claim is a stretch and a bit flawed, the claim is not strong enough to Win more to the point. Yes go for it! you have nothing to lose directly. Like it has been said by both stances it's more complicated and far reaching than simply a gender based comparison.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: yelsel on 09-02-18, 06:01PM
If I signed up for this do I have to pay them or do they take a percentage of the award if by any chance they won
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: his scots tie on 09-02-18, 07:23PM
A percentage is taken by Leigh Day,no win no fee,25%.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Flatout on 09-02-18, 07:31PM
If you live in London and get extra "location pay" does that mean those who don't get it have a claim as the job is of "equal value", The principle of this case really says this must happen. . Personally I hate the sexual discrimination slant put on this case, as his has nothing to do with men earning more than women, it's about stores and DC's.
I can't say i know enough background about this case, but you apply for a job knowing what the salary is.
Not a fan of how tesco is now run, but think there is something fundamentally flawed with this case.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 09-02-18, 07:37PM
"but you apply for a job knowing what the salary is. " What you don't know and are not told by MM or union is what others are getting who are doing similar work, and sometimes even doing the identical job you are applying for, but you get less on new T&C's.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 09-02-18, 08:34PM
Is location pay paid as basic pay or is it a separate allowance like night shift premiums etc ?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 09-02-18, 09:01PM
I work in store, no way would I work in a dc.
The implication of a win for the store workers is giving me nightmares as the implications could cripple the whole UK forever.
Yes you may get a payout but that would be wiped out when the economy crashes.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 09-02-18, 09:17PM
with all due respect, you work for a company that carries approx 14 Billion debt, has a pension deficit of approx 6.6billion, is losing market share to the Germans year on year, is struggling to make a profit, has increased sales at a rate less than the food price inflation, faces increased costs for importing food when we leave Europe, has a boardroom that appears to be in perpetual flux, is only halfway through a 1.5 billion cost savings exercise just to keep afloat, has hoodwinked a perfectly prosperous outfit like Booker into accepting Tesco as a blood-sucking parasite on its back and yet you are losing sleep because your colleagues may get a decent pay-rise and get what may be due to them?

Wait until the penny drops at Morrisons. David Potts (ex-tesco) will be spitting his cornflakes out pmsl

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 09-02-18, 10:19PM
I have to agree with OpShunned.

This is just another part of the the black hole that is Tesco. Booker will suffer as have all other aspects of the company has.

In my opinion, the Booker deal is only there to cement their CEO as DL's  replacement.

How this deal went ahead with (worthless) Tesco shares being used as currency is criminal.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 10-02-18, 01:07AM
Quote from: JL on 08-02-18, 11:00PM
Lots of talk on TV -Question Time  ;D

Just watching it on catchup. Interesting.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Redshoes on 10-02-18, 09:04AM
Quote from: Welshie on 09-02-18, 08:14AM
It's easy to get agency staff for DC and shop floor (I'm not saying they're any good) but they don't let agency staff work check-outs , customer services or pfs , so should those roles be paid more ?
Reality is if the DC guys don't pick it or  the shop floor guys don't put it on a shelf  or the check-outs guys aren't there to take the money or man self serve or scan as you shop , then the whole thing grinds to a halt . Everyone plays their part so does that mean it's of equal value ?

I have worked in 5 different stores over a 25 year period and I have worked in many different areas. In every area I have work the team think they work harder than the rest of the store. It will be same as jobs between depots and stores. The depit vs store is irrelevant, the heaviest manual job in one area being compared to the lightest job in another just requires different skills. There are people on checkouts, PFS, and desks that have medical conditions and have "light duties" but they have often done the "heavy duties" for years and have had to adjust to different skills. I think checkouts is one of the hardest job in the store but it's classed as light duties. You are stuck behind a till, the clock stops, most people on checkouts cover the clock on the till as it makes life easier to deal with. You go home tired but it's a different sort of tired. On the shop floor you tend to watch the clock not ignore it. Time flies as you tend to look at workload and time constantly but in opposit way to checkouts. At the end of the day we all go home tired, for some it's manual work body tired and for others it's customer focus smile on face tired, the company get their monies worth out of us all no matter where we work.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 10-02-18, 09:19AM
Just to clarify I wasn't suggesting check-outs , pfs etc should get .Just replying to an earlier post that said if storefront equal pay to dc's no-one would work at DC.
We all do our bit 
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 10-02-18, 09:46AM
Something fishy in this gender pay claim against Tesco (https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/fish-gender-pay-claim-tesco)

Worth a read, I think.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Redshoes on 10-02-18, 10:28AM
Quote from: Welshie on 10-02-18, 09:19AM
Just to clarify I wasn't suggesting check-outs , pfs etc should get .Just replying to an earlier post that said if storefront equal pay to dc's no-one would work at DC.
We all do our bit

I did not read it as that. Angency staff tend not to handle money, as simple as that. Checkout can be learned quickly but not so with PFS and desk. The till part is learned quickly but the rules and regulations not so much. All areas have deliver great service, deal with difficult customers etc but as agency staff are passing through they may not be invested in giving great service to that difficult customer as they are not staying.
I'm just saying/agreeing that we all do our bit. Every job had its own difficult bits but the difficult bits do not always relate to manual labour.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 10-02-18, 10:50AM
Quote from: Nomad on 10-02-18, 09:46AM
Something fishy in this gender pay claim against Tesco (https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/fish-gender-pay-claim-tesco)

Worth a read, I think.

Yes, definitely worth a read!

['Negotiation, not litigation?' ]--I doubt this would get colleagues anywhere especially if Usdaw are involved  :(

If you were paid depending on what level you were at? Would that work if shift allowances were included on top?

Another anomaly I find is the role of a Customer Service colleague. If you are a customer service agent in one of the contact centres you will earn upwards of £9.50 an hour, earn time and a half for overtime and Bank holidays, although if you are on the old contract you would earn double time for both aspects. The poor buggers at Capita (Bury) and Kura(Glasgow) however are probably earning minimum wage to do the same job as store colleagues and permanent staff at Dundee  8-)

Colleagues on the customer service desks in store can only currently dream of earning that much despite being level 1 workers like their contact centre counterparts. Where are the major differences in talking to a customer face to face or over the phone? I would contend that face to face contact with difficult customers is more challenging than dealing with them on the blower (plus one is in a position to turn the volume down to quieten a screamer  :D )

I'm surmising that the German retailers have a more uniformed pay structure?



Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Loki on 10-02-18, 12:23PM
Quote from: Nomad on 10-02-18, 09:46AM
Something fishy in this gender pay claim against Tesco (https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/fish-gender-pay-claim-tesco)

Worth a read, I think.

Sums it up for me to be honest. Other than that the world's becoming more insane by the day.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 10-02-18, 01:31PM
It goes back to my earlier point, negotiations have established the rates and the disparity,  the principle of the claim hasn't been on the agenda at those negotiations.

Also a lack of faith in USDAW in the past or in the future, isn't really a point in this, Loki and others corrected me once that USDAW are not the recognised union for ASDA staff and they to have made a similar claim,  so what anyone thinks of USDAW it's of little relevance to the Claim, the principle or any discussion around it.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 10-02-18, 02:08PM
However, they would be a party in any 'negotiations' that took place, presumably. Not litigation, but definitely negotiation.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 10-02-18, 02:14PM
 :thumbup:
And and are representatives of The workforce which the claimants are part of are part of that process and that will be discussed, gaurenteed.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Loki on 10-02-18, 02:24PM
Only one winner in all this in my opinion... Solicitors
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 10-02-18, 02:41PM
 :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Loki on 10-02-18, 02:47PM
I can't believe the amount of people who's judgements are clouded by pound signs without thinking of the possible consequences for a vast amount of employees SHOULD this claim, alongside Asda and Sainsbury's, succeed.

Sure, compensation ( minus the vultures' 25% fee ) in one hand whilst awaiting a far less palpable fate.

Guess we'll have to wait several years to see.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 10-02-18, 04:20PM
The figures being spoken about ie 4 billion pounds for tesco compare that to the figures fiddling could cause them to go under.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: 0Rh+ on 10-02-18, 04:52PM
Quote from: Hammer10 on 10-02-18, 04:20PM
The figures being spoken about ie 4 billion pounds for tesco compare that to the figures fiddling could cause them to go under.
It's not "them". It's "us".
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 10-02-18, 05:21PM
Perhaps store colleagues who feel they are conscientious objectors to the idea any payout, should one manifest, state in advance they are prepared to forego said cash?

By the time the robber-barons are finished slashing and burning there won't be as many of 'us' as there once was.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 10-02-18, 05:38PM
When I signed my contract it stated my hourly rate clearly upon it. That is a lawful contact that states the pay I am entitled to.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lucgeo on 10-02-18, 05:45PM
It's the other repercussions that also come into effect. The past employees, the pensioners, their pension pot on final salary etc....etc....it's not a bottomless pit.

Instore there's still people on the old grades, desk and wages on D grades, though cash office on C grade ??? First day sick pay against three day unpaid. Will that be the next claims going through?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 10-02-18, 05:51PM
Hey let's throw Booker colleagues (assumption) into the equation. What if it transpires their staff are on more/less than our guys. It's a slam dunk to use their distribution worker as a comparator, or vice-versa.

Customer service guys in store should be able to use their counterparts in Dundee's contact centre as comparators. Another slam-dunk? Should they not be earning £9.50 an hour, both doing the same job/tasks in essence?



Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: trolleyboy96 on 10-02-18, 05:52PM
Quote from: Loki on 10-02-18, 02:47PM
I can't believe the amount of people who's judgements are clouded by pound signs without thinking of the possible consequences for a vast amount of employees SHOULD this claim, alongside Asda and Sainsbury's, succeed.

Sure, compensation ( minus the vultures' 25% fee ) in one hand whilst awaiting a far less palpable fate.

Guess we'll have to wait several years to see.

Blimey a first I agree with Loki,!I've been saying this all week to the holiday/wedding/money spending planners who can't be arsed to put a shift in but take take take and moan moan moan, I actually said the consequences if successful could be disastrous to everyone else's terms and conditions and pensions but they believe they are entitled.

To be honest I'm sick and tired of it already...
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 10-02-18, 05:55PM
Stop reading, avert one's eyes if it offends thee or strike one's eyeballs from their sockets  :D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: mexicopete on 10-02-18, 07:11PM
Quote from: OpShunned on 10-02-18, 05:51PM
Hey let's throw Booker colleagues (assumption) into the equation. What if it transpires their staff are on more/less than our guys. It's a slam dunk to use their distribution worker as a comparator, or vice-versa.

Customer service guys in store should be able to use their counterparts in Dundee's contact centre as comparators. Another slam-dunk? Should they not be earning £9.50 an hour, both doing the same job/tasks in essence?

I believe the Dot.com Customer Service Loyalty Assistants would have a claim as they are doing the same job as the Dundee colleagues and they also do the job of Customer Service Desk colleagues instore whilst being paid £8.21 per hour. :o :o :o
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 10-02-18, 08:21PM
I believe you may well be right Pete  :)

The roles are readily comparable yet the hourly wage is only 86% of that earned by colleagues in a Dundee call centre.

They are both Level 1 operatives are they not? ..and why shouldn't all Level 1 colleagues earn £9.50 an hour like those in Dundee?

Nearly every facet of their wage structure is the same, colleague discount, annual bonus, pension although Dundee colleagues on the old contract get paid one or two times the hourly rate for overtime, bank hols depending on which contract they are on. If it comes down to it, why as a level one colleague should they earn less money for such premiums?

I contend that all Level 1 store colleagues should be on the same as call centre level 1 colleagues and that Usdaw should get on the case a.s.ap.  :D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: panther on 10-02-18, 11:18PM
Quote from: Loki on 10-02-18, 02:47PM
I can't believe the amount of people who's judgements are clouded by pound signs without thinking of the possible consequences for a vast amount of employees SHOULD this claim, alongside Asda and Sainsbury's, succeed.

Sure, compensation ( minus the vultures' 25% fee ) in one hand whilst awaiting a far less palpable fate.

Guess we'll have to wait several years to see.

Never thought I'd see the day Loki, when I agree with you 100%. What people don't seem to be thinking is, this will affect EVERYONE. Those £££'s don't last long
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: trigger on 10-02-18, 11:41PM

equil pay,i want the same as london rates of pay,hourly rate.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 11-02-18, 12:43AM
@Panther
and
@Loki

if a company can't afford the going rate, then I am sure that the aldi could do with the  30% market share that tesco has. I feel certain that the vast majority (if we consider the past and ONGOING cuts that have happened on the unions watch) of those left (with their experience) could find alternative employment with real (not slave) rates of pay.

It is my belief (at the moment) that all of these incessant whines from distribution regarding pay increases (past and present) have led us to the point that we are at now. And as others have said (in other threads) if distribution do not like their current pay levels, then go somewhere that will pay them the going rate. OR fight for more money (which will it be), OH YEAH you have chosen (to fight), well then why don't you F off whilst we fight for US. I find it difficult to believe that distribution (or the union) have cared a FIG about shop-floor staff until now (when we start to stand up for ourselves), and now (all of a sudden) WE MATTER.

GO FIGURE

ONE THING IS FOR CERTAIN, WHEN SHOP-FLOOR STAFF FINALLY STAND-UP FOR THEMSELVES AND RECOGNIZE THEIR TRUE WORTH. GOD HELP THE REST OF YOU PARASITES. YOU HAVE TAKEN FROM SHOP-FLOOR WORKERS FOR TOOOOOOO LONG, TIME TO START GIVING BACK. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: trigger on 11-02-18, 01:34AM
crabbit ,see you on the frontline,,if the scots are hard enough,ha ha ha ha
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: trigger on 11-02-18, 01:44AM
irishtescoworker ,you have more insight than me on this
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 11-02-18, 02:15AM
Quote from: optout on 11-02-18, 12:43AM
ONE THING IS FOR CERTAIN, WHEN SHOP-FLOOR STAFF FINALLY STAND-UP FOR THEMSELVES AND RECOGNIZE THEIR TRUE WORTH. GOD HELP THE REST OF YOU PARASITES. YOU HAVE TAKEN FROM SHOP-FLOOR WORKERS FOR TOOOOOOO LONG, TIME TO START GIVING BACK. :thumbup:

So let me get this straight, distribution centres use the Union alongside actual membership participation to negotiate their pay, and you're accusing them of taking from shopworkers.

Are you not constantly banging on about how useless "tesdaw" are, yet when they and the members do something effective, you post this utter nonsense.



Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Loki on 11-02-18, 03:03AM
Quote from: panther on 10-02-18, 11:18PM
Never thought I'd see the day Loki, when I agree with you 100%. What people don't seem to be thinking is, this will affect EVERYONE. Those £££'s don't last long

I guess opinions vary a lot at times lol

At the end of the day, if there are genuine instances where there is genuine discrimination with regards to terms and conditions, then yeah, it should be dealt with accordingly. But this is just ludicrous and is indeed indicative of the claim culture in this country.

Seems many are more interested in getting one over on the Company with no thought of not only whether or not it is a case of gender discrimination, but also of what it could mean for employees in EVERY sector of employment throughout the country.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Rigger on 11-02-18, 05:01PM
Quote from: optout on 11-02-18, 12:43AM
@Panther
and
@Loki

if a company can't afford the going rate, then I am sure that the aldi could do with the  30% market share that tesco has. I feel certain that the vast majority (if we consider the past and ONGOING cuts that have happened on the unions watch) of those left (with their experience) could find alternative employment with real (not slave) rates of pay.

It is my belief (at the moment) that all of these incessant whines from distribution regarding pay increases (past and present) have led us to the point that we are at now. And as others have said (in other threads) if distribution do not like their current pay levels, then go somewhere that will pay them the going rate. OR fight for more money (which will it be), OH YEAH you have chosen (to fight), well then why don't you F off whilst we fight for US. I find it difficult to believe that distribution (or the union) have cared a FIG about shop-floor staff until now (when we start to stand up for ourselves), and now (all of a sudden) WE MATTER.

GO FIGURE

ONE THING IS FOR CERTAIN, WHEN SHOP-FLOOR STAFF FINALLY STAND-UP FOR THEMSELVES AND RECOGNIZE THEIR TRUE WORTH. GOD HELP THE REST OF YOU PARASITES. YOU HAVE TAKEN FROM SHOP-FLOOR WORKERS FOR TOOOOOOO LONG, TIME TO START GIVING BACK. :thumbup:

1/10 for the rant

It's not distributions fault they still have an individual vote for any pay negs, sounds like the bulk of your rant should be directed at your union not distribution workers.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: fargone on 11-02-18, 08:28PM
"No society wants you to become wise: it is against the investment of all societies. If people are wise they cannot be exploited. If they are intelligent they cannot be subjugated, they cannot be forced in a mechanical life, to live like robots. They will assert their individuality. They will have the fragrance of rebellion around them. They will like to live in freedom. Freedom comes with wisdom, intrinsically. They are inseparable, and no society wants people to be free. The communist society, the fascist society, the capitalist society, the Hindu, the Mohammedan, the Christian — no society — would like people to use their own intelligence because the moment they start using their intelligence they become dangerous — dangerous to the establishment, dangerous to the people who are in power, dangerous to the 'haves'; dangerous to all kinds of oppression, exploitation, suppression; dangerous to the churches, dangerous to the states, dangerous to the nations. In fact, a wise man is afire, alive, aflame. But he cannot sell his life, he cannot serve them. He would like rather to die than to be enslaved." ~Osho
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Loki on 11-02-18, 08:41PM
Quote from: optout on 11-02-18, 12:43AM
@Panther
and
@Loki

if a company can't afford the going rate, then I am sure that the aldi could do with the  30% market share that tesco has. I feel certain that the vast majority (if we consider the past and ONGOING cuts that have happened on the unions watch) of those left (with their experience) could find alternative employment with real (not slave) rates of pay.

It is my belief (at the moment) that all of these incessant whines from distribution regarding pay increases (past and present) have led us to the point that we are at now. And as others have said (in other threads) if distribution do not like their current pay levels, then go somewhere that will pay them the going rate. OR fight for more money (which will it be), OH YEAH you have chosen (to fight), well then why don't you F off whilst we fight for US. I find it difficult to believe that distribution (or the union) have cared a FIG about shop-floor staff until now (when we start to stand up for ourselves), and now (all of a sudden) WE MATTER.

GO FIGURE

ONE THING IS FOR CERTAIN, WHEN SHOP-FLOOR STAFF FINALLY STAND-UP FOR THEMSELVES AND RECOGNIZE THEIR TRUE WORTH. GOD HELP THE REST OF YOU PARASITES. YOU HAVE TAKEN FROM SHOP-FLOOR WORKERS FOR TOOOOOOO LONG, TIME TO START GIVING BACK. :thumbup:

"We fight for us"? Think you're  missing the point of who's taken up the mantle and why. Ironic you mention parasites when, in this case, it's the solicitors that are the parasites who, incidentally care not of the consequences of such a ridiculous claim should it succeed.

Your seemingly prejudiced views regarding distribution workers beggars belief.

Oh, I'm a shop worker by the way.  8-)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 11-02-18, 08:50PM
So ridiculous that it makes its way to Court and is tested in front of a Judge who finds in favour of the claim progressing further depsite Asda's protestations

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/brierly-v-asda.pdf (https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/brierly-v-asda.pdf)

If it was 'ridiculous' it wouldn't get past 'Go', would it?

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Loki on 11-02-18, 09:01PM
Already aware of the current status of the Asda case and Yep, still find it  ridiculous.

We'll see what happens several years from now. In the meantime I'll remain amused by those who happily use this case as a means to justify their blinkered views.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 11-02-18, 09:09PM
The industry will have an inkling in October of this year when Asda's hearing takes place. If they win their case the writing would be on the wall for Tesco perhaps. Would it make a union rep's position untenable if they directly oppose the aims of the boots-on-the-ground members who pay good money to receive the backing of USDAW? Naturally, it is the right of every person of influence to act on their own convictions one way or another.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Kingkong2015 on 11-02-18, 10:26PM
guys on new generation contacts in Belfast dc are paid less, less benefits that those who are female and on old t&c's, why? Is this not discrimination?   >:D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: panther on 11-02-18, 10:33PM
Quote from: optout on 11-02-18, 12:43AM
@Panther
and
@Loki

if a company can't afford the going rate, then I am sure that the aldi could do with the  30% market share that tesco has. I feel certain that the vast majority (if we consider the past and ONGOING cuts that have happened on the unions watch) of those left (with their experience) could find alternative employment with real (not slave) rates of pay.

It is my belief (at the moment) that all of these incessant whines from distribution regarding pay increases (past and present) have led us to the point that we are at now. And as others have said (in other threads) if distribution do not like their current pay levels, then go somewhere that will pay them the going rate. OR fight for more money (which will it be), OH YEAH you have chosen (to fight), well then why don't you F off whilst we fight for US. I find it difficult to believe that distribution (or the union) have cared a FIG about shop-floor staff until now (when we start to stand up for ourselves), and now (all of a sudden) WE MATTER.

GO FIGURE

ONE THING IS FOR CERTAIN, WHEN SHOP-FLOOR STAFF FINALLY STAND-UP FOR THEMSELVES AND RECOGNIZE THEIR TRUE WORTH. GOD HELP THE REST OF YOU PARASITES. YOU HAVE TAKEN FROM SHOP-FLOOR WORKERS FOR TOOOOOOO LONG, TIME TO START GIVING BACK. :thumbup:

Optout, I think the claim is ludicrous for a few reasons, the first one the way it is being pushed, as sexual discrimination. It is not. The pressures on DC staff FAR outweigh the pressure instore, and I would never begrudge them a penny of the extra few ££s they make. I'd have more sympathy if they didn't dress it up to be a matter of sexual discrimination.

If you are SO unhappy that you feel 'standing up for yourself' is by bringing a lawsuit which, if successful, will ruin many, many peoples lives are jobs are lost/cut/company folds, then I feel sorry for you. Better paid jobs out there? Go find one.

I also work in stores by the way
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 12-02-18, 02:47AM
@Loki

I am aware that you are a shop worker and union rep 8-)

Are the female union members in your store aware of your views? I doubt it?

@Panther

"a lawsuit which, if successful, will ruin many, many peoples lives"

So working in stores is some-sort of shortcut to martyrdom?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 12-02-18, 04:21AM
Not such 'martyrs' if it comes to accepting a wage increase, should it unfold   ???

Stand forward yon Sparticus and categorically state you will not accept a payrise should it be won by your female counterparts..Pledge here and now that you find your position as an Usdaw representative untenable, on principle, given how you withdraw support for your paying members in their bid to secure parity for a job of equal value  8-)

How can some of you boast you earn 42k a year in DC yet decry your colleagues the opportunity, potentially, to earn a decent 'living wage' which may get them off working tax credits, give them some pride back as they make the effort to get out of bed every day and therein allow them to provide a few more creature comforts for their loved ones?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 12-02-18, 05:09AM
Quote from: OpShunned on 12-02-18, 04:21AM
How can some of you boast you earn 42k a year in DC yet decry your colleagues the opportunity, potentially, to earn a decent 'living wage' which may get them off working tax credits, give them some pride back as they make the effort to get out of bed every day and therein allow them to provide a few more creature comforts for their loved ones?

No one is, you can quite easily transfer to DC and get their pay (though i wouldn't hold out for that random 42k figure).

Of course that would actually require some work on your part.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 12-02-18, 07:02AM
No intention to join any DC Alf. I foresee muchos grief for said department. Booker merger spells the end of the fruits enjoyed by them. Drastic will wreak havoc! No point in jumping from one sinking ship to another..no 'work' expended on my part in that area..I am making plans to get out of retail altogether..Sad that I feel that way but I see no future in hanging around waiting and dodging one guillotine blade after another.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Loki on 12-02-18, 10:30AM
Quote from: optout on 12-02-18, 02:47AM
@Loki

I am aware that you are a shop worker and union rep 8-)

Are the female union members in your store aware of your views? I doubt it?

Why yes of course they are. I've nothing to hide and have said nothing discriminatory. Whereas you, my friend seem to have some deep rooted issue with DC workers. But that's your problem to deal with, not mine.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 12-02-18, 03:31PM
No problem with DC in general, just those in DC who are decrying our right to legal redress, because it may affect them.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 12-02-18, 04:02PM
Ironically the Gender reference comes from claim supporters.
Heavier workloads better suited to males? Who said that? It's harder work more difficult to  attract and retain staff too, so rates are enhanced.

If a comparison is proven and rates levelled, then the more physical role will lose staff to the less physical ones. Rate setting has nothing to do with Gender it's about the role and how difficult and inflexible it is for a work life balance.

Distribution "Shifts" a dictated rota with weekend shifts. Very little choice other than nights or days, no giving your availability and your contract encompassing that availability.
If you can't do the hours you don't get the job.
No SUNDAY optout either.

Distribution is a more dictatorial contract with little if any flexibility it's heavier work, with physically handling and moving 2000kg of stock per shift just to retain a job. It's more difficult to attract staff to a distribution role, hence a better payment.

It simply has no bearing on Gender.

The insults to DC's workers are quite humorous, it shows the ineptitude of some to reason the case for the claim, I wonder if the legal team share the same ineptitude and or can actually put an equal value case together.



I don't begrudge anyone legal redress and supporting a rational reasoned claim, this one is not. The Asda case is slightly different because of the evidence, they have clear evidence to show that Asda had concerns about parity claims, and they made decisions and acted directly to avoid a comparison being made. It's this point that seems little known with the Asda case that makes it different and not necessarily the president that people believe it to be.

Take it to Court, and if the claim is successful and the law finds in favour of such a simplistic view to conclude such a complicated case then take the money, because in their madness at doing so they will turn labour markets in this country on their head.

My belief is the equal value will not be scrutinised that much because that is not the foundation of the claim, the foundation of the claim is simplistic gender discrimination based on an hypothesis that is discriminatory in its own right.
In this day an age discrimination can't be proven by a hypothetical discriminatory belief.

The judge might just simplistically Answer to the simplistic Claim, men and women get the same when they are expected to do the same, and neither are denied access to any area that pays enhanced pay and therefore treated the same with equal opportunity.

You may find that Asda staff were simply granted the right to compare because The court was presented with evidence that clearly showed Asda deliberately took action to make it difficult or avoid the comparison being made.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 12-02-18, 04:06PM
are the holidays in DC better than stores?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 12-02-18, 04:17PM
optout you can see for yourself

https://cdn.ourtesco.com/2016/05/Holiday-v2-May-2016.pdf
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 12-02-18, 04:47PM
 :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 12-02-18, 05:21PM
The holiday entitlement seems consistent.

Table one the majority are on annualised hours so don't have a holiday entitlement, and those that do carry 2 entitlements with the table showing holiday only with bank hols on top.
The second table the majority are not on annualised hours, do have holiday entitlement but not in two separate elements as other DC's and stores of hols and bank hols  but one element that is a total of both, signified by the *'s
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 12-02-18, 07:36PM
Quote from: Duracell on 12-02-18, 04:02PM
Ironically the Gender reference comes from claim supporters.
Heavier workloads better suited to males? Who said that? It's harder work more difficult to  attract and retain staff too, so rates are enhanced.

If a comparison is proven and rates levelled, then the more physical role will lose staff to the less physical ones. Rate setting has nothing to do with Gender it's about the role and how difficult and inflexible it is for a work life balance.

Distribution "Shifts" a dictated rota with weekend shifts. Very little choice other than nights or days, no giving your availability and your contract encompassing that availability.
If you can't do the hours you don't get the job.
No SUNDAY optout either.

Distribution is a more dictatorial contract with little if any flexibility it's heavier work, with physically handling and moving 2000kg of stock per shift just to retain a job. It's more difficult to attract staff to a distribution role, hence a better payment.

It simply has no bearing on Gender.

The insults to DC's workers are quite humorous, it shows the ineptitude of some to reason the case for the claim, I wonder if the legal team share the same ineptitude and or can actually put an equal value case together.



I don't begrudge anyone legal redress and supporting a rational reasoned claim, this one is not. The Asda case is slightly different because of the evidence, they have clear evidence to show that Asda had concerns about parity claims, and they made decisions and acted directly to avoid a comparison being made. It's this point that seems little known with the Asda case that makes it different and not necessarily the president that people believe it to be.

Take it to Court, and if the claim is successful and the law finds in favour of such a simplistic view to conclude such a complicated case then take the money, because in their madness at doing so they will turn labour markets in this country on their head.

My belief is the equal value will not be scrutinised that much because that is not the foundation of the claim, the foundation of the claim is simplistic gender discrimination based on an hypothesis that is discriminatory in its own right.
In this day an age discrimination can't be proven by a hypothetical discriminatory belief.

The judge might just simplistically Answer to the simplistic Claim, men and women get the same when they are expected to do the same, and neither are denied access to any area that pays enhanced pay and therefore treated the same with equal opportunity.

You may find that Asda staff were simply granted the right to compare because The court was presented with evidence that clearly showed Asda deliberately took action to make it difficult or avoid the comparison being made.
Its true what u r saying but i must say something about example you made about amout of stock shifting /handling. You gave example of 2 tones , but me or other guy in my store shift more than that all the time filling produce. Other example is BWS and drinks done by me again or another guy. Second bests are unable to do half of the work we do but pay is the same and much lower than in DC. 26 aisles and 13 people at work. Now we just wait for redundancy if night operation will be scrapped.
In my opinion company should introduce better pay. Too many workers are extremly underpayed compared to the amount of work they do.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 12-02-18, 07:47PM
13 on a good night  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 12-02-18, 08:05PM
I think you missed my point 2000kg minimum to retain your job, that's not excelling.

But rightly you have shown a valid point it seems what you have said a minority are not rewarded in retail for going over and above the Norm, whereas is always best to reward achievement with monetary gain.

You have identified your skillset. Yet unfortunately it doesn't fit with the current mentality of the claim, as "me and the other guy" suggest you are Male.

The simplistic view ( as it seems common) is, why go over and above the norm or average when you are not rewarded to do so?

I do agree though that where one can reasonably show equality in task you should receive equal pay, whether that would extend to a time study for you and your colleagues is another thing. The down side to that is bleak, under achievers being heavily performances managed.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 12-02-18, 08:49PM
Anyway let's get back to the nitty gritty of this thread eh ladies and gents.

Anyone reading who wants to take it up with Leigh Day, and instead of trawling back through for contact details here they are. .. and good luck.
https://www.leighday.co.uk/Employment-discrimination/Current-cases/Tesco-equal-pay-claim (https://www.leighday.co.uk/Employment-discrimination/Current-cases/Tesco-equal-pay-claim)

Tesco Equal Pay Claim


Leigh Day is currently bringing a claim on behalf of Tesco store workers for equal pay. We are doing so to promote equality and challenge how large retailers pay their employees in different areas of their business.

Equal pay claims

Equal pay claims for supermarket employees are about whether hourly-paid store staff carry out work that is of "equal value" to that carried out by the staff who work in the distribution centres. The staff working in the stores are mostly women and the staff working in the distribution centres are mostly men. 

If it is shown that their work is of equal value, and we can show that the reason for the difference in pay is due to their gender and cant be justified, then the equal pay claims will be successful. We believe that we will be successful in these equal pay claims against Tesco as well as those we are running against Asda and Sainsburys.

Who can claim?

Anyone, female or male, who has worked at a Tesco store in England, Northern Ireland or Wales in the last six years, or Scotland in the last five years.

If you have worked for Tesco for more than 6 years will be entitled to the maximum amount of back pay.

Should you wish to instruct Leigh Day to represent you in this claim, please contact us at tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk or on 0800 689 0570

Please be assured that strong victimisation laws are in place to prevent any negative action being taken against you for bringing an equal pay claim. If you have any concerns about this, you can call 0207 650 1228 and speak to our team in confidence.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: craftyarchie on 13-02-18, 10:29AM
I'm fortunate that I left Tesco in June and started a new job.  I've contacted Leigh Day as I worked for Tesco for over 11 years and have the decline in workers rights and remuneration over the years.
Leigh Day have told me that as I left over 6 months I can't be included in the current employment case but they are considering a civil case due to the amount of ex  staff contacting them and they will back in touch if that happens.

I also asked them if there was any recourse against USDAW as if the cases are proved against the removal of premiums and equal pay then USDAW are as complicent as Tesco are.

They are going to look into the merits of such a case, so feel free to mention USDAWS misrepresentation to them as part of any enquiry
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: grim up north on 13-02-18, 12:10PM
Quote from: Duracell on 12-02-18, 08:05PM
I think you missed my point 2000kg minimum to retain your job, that's not excelling.

Have you missed a 0 off that Duracell? A full cage of pop weighs 400kg+, and at my DC, you get around 25/30 minutes to pick 4 of them. You can get given 2000kg to pick in an hour.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 13-02-18, 02:31PM
I did too well spotted. At least someone's knows the job.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 13-02-18, 02:45PM
I think distribution workers should bring a claim. My DC 8-96 an hour. If other DCs are getting 1150 then surely I should have same as im doing same job. That's fair isn't it. all DC workers will be watching case closely
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 13-02-18, 04:15PM
You'd think so wouldn't you? I'm guessing you'd be hard pushed to win a claim on geographical grounds if the old 'London Weighting'  terms applied? Elsewise, you're paid by the same employer (single source), doing a job of equal value etc.

It's worth getting in touch with a solicitor to see if you have any grounds. Nowt to lose really.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: baldeagle on 13-02-18, 04:26PM
How about doing the same job in the same DC but on different contracts and therefore getting different pay.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 13-02-18, 04:46PM
@bald eagle
I don't understand how they are doing that in dc's when that was there entire reasoning for doing away with double time on Sundays in stores, they didn't want people doing the same job for different pay .
Surely they are contradicting themselves by doing it in warehouses.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: baldeagle on 13-02-18, 04:58PM
Its a driver issue, but I think you are right
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 13-02-18, 06:10PM
I have a feeling that Booker warehouse workers are earning less than Tosco staff??

How will all this roll when the merger takes place?

Dundee call centre Level 1 call agents on £9.50 an hour yet store colleagues doing a customer service role on £1.50 less, getting double time for Sundays and Bank Hols, sick pay from day one and time and a half for overtime?

It's all coming to a head though.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: viva la vida on 13-02-18, 07:06PM
In our DC there are four different contracts. The old t&cs, the old new t&cs, the not so old t&cs and the new t&cs. Oh, and the agency t&cs. It's an interesting talking point. New contract staff begrudge the old staff, even though they knew the terms when they took the job.
Divide and conquer
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: viva la vida on 13-02-18, 07:07PM
Everyone should put a claim in
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 13-02-18, 09:06PM
^ It seems like they are  8-)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 13-02-18, 09:10PM
Joined Leigh Day today  :)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 13-02-18, 09:29PM
^... any Booker colleagues in?...your work will be of equal value soon  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lackofinterest on 14-02-18, 01:52AM
Quote from: OpShunned on 13-02-18, 09:06PM
^ It seems like they are  8-)
I'm not, because I haven't a genuine reason to.......yet (-*-)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 14-02-18, 06:57AM
Good for you  :)

If you're in the old contract though, Alun Stewart is coming for you (us). We are on his pie chart labelled Dave's Brave New World. It's nothing personal, it's just business, and merely a drop in the pond of 1.5 billion savings amid synergies.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lackofinterest on 14-02-18, 11:16AM
f**k alun stewart and big bad dave. bring em on :D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: notsofunny on 14-02-18, 01:33PM

Its a bit late , But the penny has just dropped as to who Leigh day are ,, >:(

They are the same lot that went out to Iraq to look for people to make false claims against our Boy's and girls in the army , and are still fighting cases for them >:( , Not only did those in the army have to face death when they were in Iraq , they are having to face this lot that are only after making money ,

I wonder if those that are using them Understand who they are  and what they are doing ?


Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: viva la vida on 14-02-18, 01:50PM
Bring em on indeed.  They can come after us all they want. We're way ahead in the majority in our depot.  They have to employ another 600 to tip the balance.  That's not gonna happen any time soon.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 14-02-18, 02:17PM
Quote from: notsofunny on 14-02-18, 01:33PM

Its a bit late , But the penny has just dropped as to who Leigh day are ,, >:(

They are the same lot that went out to Iraq to look for people to make false claims against our Boy's and girls in the army , and are still fighting cases for them >:( , Not only did those in the army have to face death when they were in Iraq , they are having to face this lot that are only after making money ,

I wonder if those that are using them Understand who they are  and what they are doing ?
--------------------------------------

leigh Day have brought claims against the MoD for failing to defend your 'boys and girls properly'..

Also, it has to be said that if any of your boys and girls have sytematically tortured soldiers, or civilians, they deserve everything they get in my opinion. There are conventions for treating prisoners and civilians humanely.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 14-02-18, 03:08PM
@ OpShunned

Are you referring to the obscene amount of fake claims that were discovered against British Troops??? In other words? Leigh were making money off lies??

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 14-02-18, 03:25PM
To be fair they were cleared of "professional misconduct".

But the whole fiasco made Leigh Day look quite incompetent. Leigh day claimed British soldiers imprisoned and tortured innocent Iraqi civilians, turns out Leigh Day had a document within their possession showing that these civilians were in fact Iraqi combatants (the torture claims were also investigated and disproven).

Quote from: Equalizer87 on 14-02-18, 03:08PM

Are you referring to the obscene amount of fake claims that were discovered against British Troops??? In other words? Leigh were making money off lies??

As i mentioned they were cleared of misconduct.

Though depending on your perspective that may be because they are in fact innocent, or because there simply wasn't enough evidence to bring charges.

But I know I personally find it hard to believe they could "miss" such an important document.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 14-02-18, 04:17PM
Does a teams history in the past have any bearing on the merits or behaviour in future unrelated claim or cases?

I Guess if you say no it doesn't, in the interests of the current claim and the Greater Good. Then you should have total faith in USDAW too, right? Same mentality surely!

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 14-02-18, 04:44PM
@ alf

My point exactly.

@Durecell

The 'history' as you describe it, is more a show of their culture within their profession. It appears to me that Leigh Day are the opportunist of the opportunists.  The fact they pursued, badgered and harassed military personnel over what on the most part can be identified as bogus  claims for financial gain, should make those working with them on this particular case worry.

As regards to USDAW, are you serious?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 14-02-18, 04:51PM
No it was a scarcastic comparison of what a consitant mentality would look like.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 14-02-18, 04:56PM
Consistent? ? I doubt that.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 14-02-18, 06:30PM
Some say he speaketh in riddles  :D

F*** Usdaw ..nothing ambiguous about that eh?

That's where I stand with Useless Seven Says A Week.

Never given that sorry excuse of a union one single penny of my cash and that's a fact. I have kept out of trouble and helped others who have been in bother and have asked for sincere advice and support.

Let's not get carried away with comparing entities and whether they carry a halo higher above than the head of the next but admit that the game is over for EVERYONE within the this company that have enjoyed any previous benefits and perks. The sooner you grasp that notion the better because the robber-barons ARE coming for you. Your cosy little nest will be thrown brutally from the tree. Take what you can get now and make preparation for alternative employment when you realise you cant stomach Dave's Brave New World.  ;)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 14-02-18, 07:04PM
So you want people to take a course of  action, that may give them a short term win, whilst possibly delivering long term pain, based on nothing but speculation.

If your (or anyone else ) just looking a wee payday before you jump ship, fair enough at least that's being honest, but not everyone will be in that position.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 14-02-18, 07:11PM
You'll be surprised how many are thinking that way. And in light of the way the company is 'operating'  I cannot blame them for thinking like that.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 14-02-18, 07:27PM
Of course, and I don't really blame them that much, you need to look after yourself primarily, before others.

But likewise, you can't blame people, whether they're distribution or store for not buying into something that could screw them over.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 14-02-18, 07:39PM
I don't disagree that many many employees have had enough.
I don't disagree that there will be more of the same.

I disagree that the "The Claim" is a genuine gender bias claim. The case just isn't there, part of the claim formulates itself on nothing more than hypothetical, speculative, stereo typical sexism. Unfounded speculative Sexist reasoning to prove a case of gender discrimination is contradictive reasoning and therefore not credible.
Not to mention gathering momentum because of a similar case label that has substantially different case evidence.

Gravy Train!

Na

Train Wreck!

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 14-02-18, 07:46PM
I agree that the Gender bias aspect is wrong as surely would it also not affect Male staff in the similar roles. Something tells me they pursued a 'Gender Bais' claim to jump on the bandwagon of the gender pay gap issues that are currently circling around. Though that is just my opinion.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 14-02-18, 07:58PM
Quote from: Equalizer87 on 14-02-18, 07:11PM
You'll be surprised how many are thinking that way. And in light of the way the company is 'operating'  I cannot blame them for thinking like that.
----------------------------

I hope so, I do really hope so.

For me there is no long-term gain, only a short term smash and grab which let's face it is exactly what the robber-barons are doing in my opinion.

Hang around doing nothing if you want to, try and see if the cotton-wooled Usdaw partnership stands up to the final onslaught. I can assure you that the partnership is now universally considered a dead-loss.

The best you can look forward to,in my opinion is redundancy and the possibility of winning a pay-out of some kind. This I say candidly to those of you who have woken up to the truth and not sleep-walking into a nightmare that you didn't envisage ever happening to the Tesco family. The 'old' values have gone. We are left with a callous bunch who have little sympathy for those who want to retain the old perks and comforts. If you can't see that Drastic//Charlie boy want wages almost standardised there's something s***ting up your glasses? They will get to EVERYONE sooner or later.

Customer service will be outsourced completely. I believe that the smaller format stores will be franchised out to put the onus of wages on someone else while Tesco/Booker supply the stores. Distribution will be decimated to the point where colleagues will almost beg for a way out leaving pay structure at the mercy of the heirarchy. Usdaw will not as usual stand in their way.

I didn't contact Leigh day last March on a mere whim. At the time it was obvious Drastic and Stewart were going to slash and burn. I'm glad over one thousand colleagues had the guts to get in touch with the solicitor. Incidentally, the Pay Justice group are also touting for Tesco staff to get in touch with them regarding Equal Pay so it's not just Leigh Day taking a possible cut.

Don't fall for the claim that "part of the claim formulates itself on nothing more than hypothetical, speculative, stereo typical sexism. Unfounded speculative Sexist reasoning to prove a case of gender discrimination is contradictive reasoning and therefore not credible". It's being tested against previous court cases and European law. Yes. it may be tough to win but, ALL THE POWER TO THOSE WHO HAVE THE METAL TO ATTEMPT IT, I maintain.

There may be a few here who only raise their head above the parapet in righteous indignation when they feel the status quo wobble will shake their world. It's way too late for nostalgia.

If you try to hang onto the Tesco past , you will get kicked in the teeth. Make preparation now for an exit strategy.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FatFraz on 14-02-18, 08:03PM
Does working in the local Aldi 10 hour per week count as an exit strategy.  :)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 14-02-18, 08:05PM
Not sure you'd call it a strategy but it is an 'exit'
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 14-02-18, 08:31PM
Opshunned some have very few teeth left already.

Yet have no wish to hand them the bat to start on the kneecaps.

You got to be able to walk to take the money and run.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 14-02-18, 08:49PM
People were adamant night shift were facing a massive cull this time last year, which never materialised and people have been speculating ever since on when the changes will occur. Though recently it seems m360 has put most of the rumours to bed for now, but we'll see how long that lasts.

When shift leaders were implemented into express, people were  adamant it was going result in mass TM to shift leader changes, which again never materialised.

So you're free to speculate, but it's just that speculation.

And whilst weed was probably being a tad facetious, he rises a valid point, after all if this thing passes, it's rather naive to think it won't affect other retailers.
So if I was a full time employee not quite near retirement, I'd be quite wary of expecting any exit strategy to pay off.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: treetop on 14-02-18, 09:44PM
So much for equality of pay two people working on same department one on D grade and one on C grade doing the same job is that fair
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 14-02-18, 09:53PM
Where's that?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Morris999 on 14-02-18, 11:24PM
Most likely CSD, they changed to grade C around 2008 for new CSD colleagues but left the established colleagues on grade D.
There's not many CSD colleagues left on D anymore.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: londoner83 on 15-02-18, 05:13AM
Could also be counters with some staff D and others doing same role on C.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OvaSees on 15-02-18, 06:42AM
Quote from: Equalizer87 on 14-02-18, 07:46PM
I agree that the Gender bias aspect is wrong as surely would it also not affect Male staff in the similar roles. Something tells me they pursued a 'Gender Bais' claim to jump on the bandwagon of the gender pay gap issues that are currently circling around. Though that is just my opinion.
Been saying this right from the start - http://www.verylittlehelps.com/index.php?topic=15986.msg197398#msg197398 (http://www.verylittlehelps.com/index.php?topic=15986.msg197398#msg197398)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 15-02-18, 07:56AM
Not saying anyone hadn't,  just saying that is my personal belief.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Rigger on 15-02-18, 10:22AM
I'm far from a fan of how the company operates & I also have my gripes with them but I sincerely hope this case gets shown in court for what it actually is, a load of disgruntled employees jumping onto the back of some leech law firm to try & win a pathetic case that should never even been brought in the first place. Some of the posts justifying what's going on are pathetic, employees who hate their job but carry on as though a gun is held to their head each morning to make them go to work.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 15-02-18, 10:41AM
Hatch, Deborah
on behalf of
Lewis, Dave
Today, 10:05 AM
Lewis, Dave
Dear colleagues,

Many of you will be aware of the extensive coverage in the media last week of a potential legal claim around Equal Pay.


From time in stores, the office, and the contents of my mailbox, it is clear that the headlines have raised some questions and caused some confusion for colleagues, so this note seeks to clarify the matter as far as we are able and sets out five pertinent facts to share with your teams:

1.       We have received no claim as yet, so we still don't have a specific case to respond to. (you will Dave, you will)


2.       This appears to be a challenge around equal pay. In essence, the argument seems to be that roles in Distribution and Stores are the same and should therefore be paid the same. Tesco and all our competitors (allies now are they dave?) see work in Distribution and Stores as different for a number of reasons, and different market rates apply. We seek to offer competitive rates of pay across all parts of our business, including stores, distribution, customer engagement centres, and the office.

3.       This is not a gender pay issue, even if the media reported it as such. As you know, we pay Tesco colleagues the same rate for the same role in the places where they work (is that strictly true Dave if you're on different grades?), regardless of gender. So female and male colleagues doing the same roles in Stores are paid the same rate; and female and male colleagues doing the same roles in Distribution are also paid the same rate.

4.       More generally, you might have seen there's been a lot of news recently about what's called the Gender Pay Gap. (Hers's the non-relevant spin to put him in a better light)


For those who aren't familiar with the Gender Pay Gap, this is about comparing what all men and all women in all roles in a business are paid on average and measuring the difference between the male and female averages. It's not about comparing what men and women are paid for doing the same role.

We've been monitoring our pay gap for many years now, and were one of the first companies to report it voluntarily in 2012. Now, in response to new legislation from the Government, all businesses with more than 250 employees have to publish their Gender Pay Gap every year, and we'll be publishing this year's report later this month. (what does this matter to store minnions barely earning above minimum wage))

What's interesting is that the Tesco pay gap is less than half the national average. (zzzzzzz) Whilst the average Gender Pay Gap for UK businesses is 18.4% currently, at Tesco it's 8.7%. A key factor driving the Tesco pay gap is that whilst shift premiums are available to all (ugh, is he feckin serious after he cut them to shreds), more male colleagues work shifts that receive premium payments. When we don't include these premiums in the data, the Tesco pay gap is even smaller – 2.7%. You can see the full details when we share our report later this month.

5.       Tesco has always been a place for people to get on and we are absolutely committed to equal opportunity and fair and competitive pay.  (it may have been Dave but that was before you and Alan Stewart took out your pruning shears)

I hope these facts ( :D) are helpful in putting the news coverage in perspective. Thank you again for all your hard work and for everything you are doing to serve shoppers so brilliantly. (while you still have a job)

Take care,


Dave
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: treetop on 15-02-18, 09:01PM
Yes difference on CSD both worked for company same amount of time just started on different departments
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Loki on 15-02-18, 09:12PM
Quote from: Rigger on 15-02-18, 10:22AM
I'm far from a fan of how the company operates & I also have my gripes with them but I sincerely hope this case gets shown in court for what it actually is, a load of disgruntled employees jumping onto the back of some leech law firm to try & win a pathetic case that should never even been brought in the first place. Some of the posts justifying what's going on are pathetic, employees who hate their job but carry on as though a gun is held to their head each morning to make them go to work.

Predominantly agree with this  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 15-02-18, 10:52PM
Appreciate what people think about the claim is wrong but its an example of what wrong with the EU, the case is using EU equal opportunities legislation. You cant blame people for exploiting it like Tesco have exploited the same legislation that has removed workers rights. Tesco bend the law to benefit themselves this is just the same principle reversed
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 15-02-18, 11:35PM
You don't need any European intervention to question why someone in a Dundee call centre should earn £9.50 an hour yet HIS or HER colleague dealing with almost identical customer service issues is paid £1/£1.50 less. Who is being exploited there?

Ask your colleagues on the CSD where their store reception calls went to?
Let me save you the trouble as they went to the call centre where someone is getting paid more money to talk to the same customers. Yet Drastic says differently.. Read his email sent out today.

Are Clubcard Champions in store getting paid £9.50 to answer customer queries like those at a call centre?

Are CDAs getting paid £9.50 to issue a refund on his pda?
No? Dundee agents getting paid to press a button to issue refunds!

Should store colleagues be earning £9.50 an hour just like Dundee call agents for doing the same tasks? Do you need EU laws to predominately agree with the principle?

Would you support colleagues if they were using call centres as 'comparators' in an Equal Pay claim? Would you give a monkey's whether it was males, females or aliens involved?

Clubcard Champions in store getting paid as above for offering Clubcard advice?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lucgeo on 17-02-18, 08:26AM
Quote from: treetop on 15-02-18, 09:01PM
Yes difference on CSD both worked for company same amount of time just started on different departments

I'm guessing the one on C grade, started on a C grade department and moved to CSD after the grade drop ???

There are a few colleagues still on D grade, however should they ASK to transfer to other department, they will lose the D grade, they would only retain it if they were ASKED to move, or in the case of RHRP, they would get a cushion payment, and a % drop over four years, to bring them in line with others on C grade.

I still wonder if wages is still a D grade for newbies? If so, WHY ???
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 17-02-18, 10:38AM
Latest from Leigh Day - complete apart from personal details

We have seen the email Dave Lewis sent to all staff regarding the recent press coverage of your equal pay case.  Mr Lewis said that he has not received the claim.  We have sent a copy of the claim to Dave Lewis so that he understands the exact nature of the allegation being made. We have lodged over 100 claims with the Birmingham Employment Tribunal who will no doubt serve them on TESCO after they have processed them.  An example of the pleadings are attached for your information. 

In his email Mr Lewis appears to misunderstand the case we are bringing on your behalf. The essence of your case is not as suggested by Mr Lewis, "that roles in Distribution and Stores are the same and should therefore be paid the same", but rather it is "that the that roles in Distribution and Stores are of equal value and should therefore be paid the same" .

This is a subtle but very important distinction and if your case succeeds means TESCO will have acted unlawfully and in breach of the Equal Pay provisions of the Equality Act 2010.

We will continue to issue claims over the coming weeks, months and years as the cases progress and we expect to receive a copy of TESCO'S defence by the end of March.

Should you or any of your colleagues have any questions about the case or about Equal Pay at TESCO please get in touch on 0800 689 0570 or tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk

Yours sincerely

Tesco Equal Pay Team
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 17-02-18, 05:35PM
Thanks for posting that Adam  :)

It's typical of Drastic to put spin on the topic.. It's highlighted by his emphasis on 'gender pay gap' to deflect away from, and to misstate the fundamentals of the claim.

I'll get on to Leigh Day regarding the work of equal value carried out between customer service staff in store and those in Dundee. Something else to beat him on the head with perhaps. Even the current naysayers here would support that angle? Oh but then again they do fear their nests getting shaken out of the tree.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 17-02-18, 05:52PM
"In the week where we have marked the 100 year anniversary since women began to get the vote, the time has come for companies and public organisations to have a long hard look at themselves, to see the inequality which is still deeply entrenched in their organisations." added Ms Lee.

Yeah totes, it's deffo Lewis that is trying to spin this as a gender issue....
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Rigger on 17-02-18, 07:23PM
The claim is that ridiculous the hope is if you all fire in from enough angles you'll get lucky with a winner. All being led up the garden path by a bunch of crooks dressed in smart suits, they're fake claims of abuse by the army on Afghans in custody show them for what they really are and I'd be ashamed to be associated with anything to do with them.

The hate for DC's on here is real, I've said it before, it's not our fault we have a vote on issues that affect us, but some on here see that as DC staff taking away from store staff, deluded.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 17-02-18, 10:35PM
Hey Rigger,

You're all alone in a room surrounded by the 1,000 women who have already contacted Leigh-Day regarding the equal pay for equal value employment.

What would you say to their faces?

No - one hates distribution. I for one feel sorry for you guys and gals because your turn for decimation is fast approaching. By the time this claim is settled many of you will be working elsewhere.
'Synergied'
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 17-02-18, 10:47PM
The fact is that if Tesco is quick enough to abuse staff and exploit the law to rip people off I was a manager for 15 years I have seen it. I see it as fair game

This claim I would not call ridiculous Leigh Day has already spent 6.5 million funding the first claim regarding the double time and this claim will cost at least double that due to the larger number of claimants. A top law firm is not going to waste over 12m £ on nothing or something groundless.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 17-02-18, 10:49PM
Hey guys i just found this amazing, but clearly super secret site, as clearly 1000 woman couldn't find it https://www.tesco-careers.com (https://www.tesco-careers.com)

Apparently you can use it to apply for jobs across Tesco, including distribution.

What a time to be alive, where you are free to move jobs if you dislike aspects of your current.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Tape measure on 17-02-18, 11:50PM
Quote from: alf on 17-02-18, 10:49PM
Hey guys i just found this amazing, but clearly super secret site, as clearly 1000 woman couldn't find it https://www.tesco-careers.com (https://www.tesco-careers.com)

Apparently you can use it to apply for jobs across Tesco, including distribution.

What a time to be alive, where you are free to move jobs if you dislike aspects of your current.

I believe men can also apply. If dissatisfied with their current role that is.  Don't tell everyone though, we wouldn't want a stampede!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 17-02-18, 11:58PM
Can't see there being any fashion of stampede to distribution to be honest.. The robber-barons have almost finished trashing store terms and conditions and are currently sharpening their blades to carve up DC's. Not much point leaving store to end up on the distribution sc**pheap, although those looking for a redundancy pay-out may get one quicker by joining the condemned   8-)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 18-02-18, 12:14AM
You have some erroneous belief that distribution are living the high life, whilst stores suffer. In reality Distribution have already gone through structure and staff cuts, just like stores.
So your notion that once Tesco finish with their stores changes, they will move onto distribution, simply doesn't add up.

Now of course that doesn't mean no future changes will occur, that would be silly to state.

But unless you're the new m360/david1, you're just wildly speculating to further/justify your narrative.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 18-02-18, 11:09AM
Alf you are correct. DC's have had a cull. However warehouse managers are now halved in numbers. You would expect them to be rushed of their feet. We have managers who are either on fag breaks or on coffee break at least 80% of time. Especially loading managers. Bringing in coordinators was a licence for managers to do nothing. Our shiftys know also GM know. They turn blind eye. Our managers are never on shop floor. It's a farce.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 18-02-18, 11:15AM
When the Booker merger goes through is when you will see further changes. Why have a Tesco lorry on the road, a Booker lorry on the road, both for 12 hours when you can have one lorry on the road 24 hours a day?

Do you not think the 'Synergies' Drastic keeps banging on about involve a further cull?

Could it result in one or more DC closures especially where terms and conditions favour the minnion most?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 18-02-18, 12:06PM
Your speculation about the lorries on the road and your 2 into 1 theory.

Who is going to drive the vehicle for the 24 hours it's on the road and still be legally
compliant?

Anyone that thinks  DOT is failing now! It would be ten times worse in your imaginary world.

Drivers being on the road too long and not legal.
Stores waiting an additional 12 hours for delivery.

Your Simplistic view is simply delusional.


As for the things you believe will come to Distribution, it seems there is so much more you could mention about Distribution  to support your distain for the company but you don't, because you are simply uninformed and have very little knowledge of Distribution.

Rest assured what ever is discussed within Distribution in the future the workforce will decide what they think is best for them. It won't be the white wash you portray.



Aside from that how did this thread become about the future of Distribution you may want to start a topic all of its own if you wish to keep discussing it.

Oh yeah you did... over to Nomad.


Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 18-02-18, 12:25PM
Quote from: Duracell on 18-02-18, 12:06PM

Rest assured what ever is discussed within Distribution in the future the workforce will decide what they think is best for them. It won't be the white wash you portray.

Now you're delusional  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 18-02-18, 01:06PM
I should take your advice and keep my comments simple and factual.
You seem to struggle with responding to simple facts, and only respond to generalised comments with the Grandure of Hypothosis.

There is only one if you can be sure of.

If my Aunty had had balls she would of been my uncle.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 18-02-18, 01:13PM
I personally look forward to these magical new lorries that can deliver to opposite ends of the country simultaneously, all with never needing to stop for fuel or maintenance. 
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Tape measure on 18-02-18, 01:36PM
Quote from: OpShunned on 03-04-17, 06:49PM
This is an extract from leigh -Day's website concerning Equal pay (promising?)


Q: if I am being paid unlawfully how do I make a claim?

There are strict procedures and time limits which must be met if your claim is to succeed. 

The Employment Tribunal time limits state that in general, you must present a claim to the Employment Tribunal within 6 months of the employment ending or a change in contract. Before presenting a claim you must complete an Employment Tribunal: Early Conciliation notification form.

If you have left work or changed jobs more than 6 months ago, you can now as a result of the successful judgment in Abdulla v Birmingham City Council present a claim in the civil courts for breach of contract within 6 years of the employment ending or a change in contract.

Q: how far back can I claim

Equal pay law only allows you to claim back for any employment you carried out in the 6 years before your claim being presented to an Employment Tribunal or Court.
https://www.leighday.co.uk/Asserting-your-rights/Equal-pay-claims/FAQs-for-equal-pay-claims (https://www.leighday.co.uk/Asserting-your-rights/Equal-pay-claims/FAQs-for-equal-pay-claims)

I thought I'd bump this up again for everyone. Just a reminder..
Think link doesn't work! It's expired.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 18-02-18, 01:50PM
Should you or any of your colleagues have any questions about the case or about Equal Pay at TESCO please get in touch on 0800 689 0570 or tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk


thx
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: mrblobby on 18-02-18, 02:38PM
I don't mean to be rude, but this seems like pure opportunistic money grabbing.  Has anyone who is even considering claiming, previously thought that they were being discriminated against? A lot of people seem to have the mentality that if a solicitor tells them they could be owed money, then they are entitled to it.

But where does this money come from? Yes that's right the company will pay for it with people's jobs. So is it actually worth it?

If genuine intentional wrongdoing has occurred then I'm all for it, but too many claims are fabricated or just exploit loopholes, often now there isn't even blame and there seems
To be a claim.  It's everyone who pays, it's a public company and most people are shareholders.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: mrblobby on 18-02-18, 02:42PM
Quote from: OpShunned on 18-02-18, 11:15AM
When the Booker merger goes through is when you will see further changes. Why have a Tesco lorry on the road, a Booker lorry on the road, both for 12 hours when you can have one lorry on the road 24 hours a day?

Do you not think the 'Synergies' Drastic keeps banging on about involve a further cull?

Could it result in one or more DC closures especially where terms and conditions favour the minnion most?
That's a certainty - they've probably already been working on what assets to get rid of, and let's not forget that will mean job losses.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: mrblobby on 18-02-18, 02:50PM
Quote from: alf on 14-02-18, 03:25PM
To be fair they were cleared of "professional misconduct".

But the whole fiasco made Leigh Day look quite incompetent. Leigh day claimed British soldiers imprisoned and tortured innocent Iraqi civilians, turns out Leigh Day had a document within their possession showing that these civilians were in fact Iraqi combatants (the torture claims were also investigated and disproven).

Quote from: Equalizer87 on 14-02-18, 03:08PM

Are you referring to the obscene amount of fake claims that were discovered against British Troops??? In other words? Leigh were making money off lies??

As i mentioned they were cleared of misconduct.

Though depending on your perspective that may be because they are in fact innocent, or because there simply wasn't enough evidence to bring charges.

But I know I personally find it hard to believe they could "miss" such an important document.

There should be some sort of legal legislation that makes it illegal for fabricated claims to even get to court. Why should the MOD, or companies or individuals have to incur upfront costs defending what is essentially rubbish? Accident claims, half of them are either exaggerated or a load of rubbish. These 'solicitors' and I use the term loosely , profiteer from people willing to lie and commit fraud by fabricating or making up scenarios that haven't happened in order to get a payout.

That's my rant over, but it does tie in to the topic as these claims will be hitting tesco in the pocket to defend them( and that's not mentioning the ones they pay off because it's cheaper than going to court.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Tape measure on 18-02-18, 03:44PM
The power of the lawyer is in the uncertainty of the law.

Jeremy Bentham
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: mrblobby on 18-02-18, 03:50PM
Quote from: Tape measure on 18-02-18, 03:44PM
The power of the lawyer is in the uncertainty of the law.

Jeremy Bentham
I think the law is too tipped in the favour of these no win no fee settlement companies, essentially
They are the ones profiting. I do understand that anyone should have the right to take legal challenges to court, but clearly the law is too grey in a lot of areas. It's getting the balance right. There are people that don't actually work and just take out claims for a living.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 18-02-18, 08:29PM
If Tesco do have to pay billions in payouts. It will only result in one thing. Thousands of further job losses and potential store closures. Those very same people who are crying they want same as DC staff won't give 2 hoots about their fellow store employees who loose their jobs or even their stores. I for one hope the claim fails
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 18-02-18, 09:19PM
Yes, you've made that plain and clear.. thanks for your imput but can we now get back to concentrating on the many thousands of colleagues who are dancing to another tune?

Ps. It's lose not loose ok.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 18-02-18, 09:49PM
Keep dreaming of spending the money you wont get
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 18-02-18, 10:03PM
I was going to praise you for being prescient and the like but you've merely alighted on the correct supposition by chance perhaps. I, can guarantee you, that I won't see a penny of any potential pay-out, much like I won't be taking up the opportunity to join you wonderful people at distribution. I WONT BE WITH THIS COMPANY MUCH LONGER!

Does that clarify it for you?

However, I hope the multitude of claimants can get whatever they can out of the robber-barons who've taken the money out of their pockets both here and in Ireland 🙏🏼
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 18-02-18, 10:22PM
Why is it apparently felt by some that a successful claim for fair and equal pay by some is considered a serious threat to the livelihood of others, yet a battle for a 'substantial' pay rise would probably be applauded by the same people, even though they are not within the fighting group.

In fact those fighting for a pay rise would be congratulated in the event of a 'victory'.

Strange  ???
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 18-02-18, 10:42PM
Opshunned
So you won't be working for the company when they at the least try to offset the cost of their legal defence.

Hardly a surprise, Credit it to you for admitting it though

Nomad is that a trick question?

Who are paying now for the fines from the SFO?
Who paid the price for the mistake of going into America?
Who pays the price for every major kick in the balls the company gets or any cost that is forced on them?

Histrory should Answer part of your concern.
As for fully supporting a genuine claim for a substantial pay rise why wouldn't you.

So you have to ask why the claimants in their thousands didn't seek parity of pay through the pay review process?

While we are Hypothosising, I wonder if retail still had a vote on pay, how many of the claimants would have voted to Accept the deal. Probably best T can never get hold of that information or at least draw reference to a % in general.


Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Rigger on 19-02-18, 04:35AM
@Opshunned, you're clearly one of the disgruntled employees I mentioned earlier.

Also, seeing as you're being pedantic, it's input, not imput, ok  ;D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 19-02-18, 10:07AM
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Rad on 19-02-18, 04:32PM
Quote from: adamlad on 17-02-18, 10:47PM
The fact is that if Tesco is quick enough to abuse staff and exploit the law to rip people off I was a manager for 15 years I have seen it. I see it as fair game

This claim I would not call ridiculous Leigh Day has already spent 6.5 million funding the first claim regarding the double time and this claim will cost at least double that due to the larger number of claimants. A top law firm is not going to waste over 12m £ on nothing or something groundless.
Leigh day are not a top law firm.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 19-02-18, 04:37PM
Quote from: Nomad on 18-02-18, 10:22PM
Why is it apparently felt by some that a successful claim for fair and equal pay by some is considered a serious threat to the livelihood of others, yet a battle for a 'substantial' pay rise would probably be applauded by the same people, even though they are not within the fighting group.

In fact those fighting for a pay rise would be congratulated in the event of a 'victory'.

Strange  ???

Totally agree  :thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Tape measure on 19-02-18, 05:35PM
https://wardblawg.com/best-employment-lawyers-uk-london-bristol-manchester-scotland/

I think I read Leigh Day in there..
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 19-02-18, 06:23PM
Not sure if a blog is exactly the best source.

But it doesn't really matter if Leigh day are the worst, the best, or somewhere in-between, it has no impact on the validity of the claim.

Their capabilities will likely have an impact on the success/failure of the claim, but I think analysing that is above any of our abilities
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 19-02-18, 07:21PM
Anybody any idea of the latest figure for participants in the case :question:

Oh and a reminder about the petition, if you can't take part in the legal action then please show your moral support here:

https://www.change.org/p/tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work-tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work (https://www.change.org/p/tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work-tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 19-02-18, 09:51PM
Quote from: optout on 19-02-18, 07:21PM
Anybody any idea of the latest figure for participants in the case :question:

Yes, shitloads  :D

Who can claim?
Anyone, female or male, who has worked at a Tesco store in England or Wales in the last six years, or Scotland in the last five years.

If you have worked for Tesco for more than 6 years will be entitled to the maximum amount of back pay.

Should you wish to instruct Leigh Day to represent you in this claim, please fill out this short enquiry form or contact us at tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk or on 0800 689 0570

Please be assured that strong victimisation laws are in place to prevent any negative action being taken against you for bringing an equal pay claim. If you have any concerns about this, you can call 0207 650 1228 and speak to our team in confidence.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: mrblobby on 20-02-18, 01:23AM
Quote from: OpShunned on 19-02-18, 09:51PM
Quote from: optout on 19-02-18, 07:21PM
Anybody any idea of the latest figure for participants in the case :question:

Yes, s***loads  :D

Who can claim?
Anyone, female or male, who has worked at a Tesco store in England or Wales in the last six years, or Scotland in the last five years.

If you have worked for Tesco for more than 6 years will be entitled to the maximum amount of back pay.

Should you wish to instruct Leigh Day to represent you in this claim, please fill out this short enquiry form or contact us at tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk or on 0800 689 0570

Please be assured that strong victimisation laws are in place to prevent any negative action being taken against you for bringing an equal pay claim. If you have any concerns about this, you can call 0207 650 1228 and speak to our team in confidence.
Are you on their payroll,or taking bribes from them? If not, you should be!  :P
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 07-03-18, 01:43PM
For you Blobby :P

as of march 2018

Quote
We are indeed making good progress, over a 100 claims have now  been issued at the Employment Tribunal and very large numbers of people are joining the claim every day.

Paula Lee --Leigh Day Associate.



In a similar vein

Morrisons is set to be the latest major supermarket chain to be hit by an equal pay claim.

Claimant law firm Roscoe Reid (please feel free to malign this company along with leigh day and pay justice) is representing hundreds of Morrisons staff who say they were under-paid compared to colleagues doing comparable jobs.

The claims centre on the difference between those working on supermarket shop floors and those in distribution centres.


http://www.cityam.com/281686/morrisons-latest-supermarket-hit-equal-pay-claim (http://www.cityam.com/281686/morrisons-latest-supermarket-hit-equal-pay-claim)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 07-03-18, 08:11PM
thanks for the update :thumbup:

Anybody aware of the name of Tesco's law firm? I would imagine that they would have one on retainer, or am I wrong?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: notsofunny on 07-03-18, 09:24PM
Only 100 claims have been issued ? and very large numbers are joining every day  ??? , but how come Tesco say they have still not got anything ?

Also was wondering , if they go ahead with this , Why would you want to join the law firm action , when if they win you will be having to pay them what is it 25% of the amount before tax , since the award would be for everyone regardless of if you join the group action or not  ??? sorry just thinking out load
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Snowman on 08-03-18, 01:18AM
 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 08-03-18, 06:41AM
You could also ask why some colleagues have put their names, and more bravely, their face and voice to the claim while others may choose to take a more conservative approach?

I get what you say but I'm more inclined to admire those who have publicly stated their stance and have to carry out their every day duties for months and months to come, looking over their shoulder, and perhaps, having to fend off personal attacks on their motives. This is just a faceless website!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lucgeo on 08-03-18, 08:10AM
In yesterday's loca papers.....Royal Mail female staff higher paid than male staff ???
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 08-03-18, 08:34AM
Quote from: notsofunny on 07-03-18, 09:24PM
Only 100 claims have been issued ? and very large numbers are joining every day  ??? , but how come Tesco say they have still not got anything ?

Also was wondering , if they go ahead with this , Why would you want to join the law firm action , when if they win you will be having to pay them what is it 25% of the amount before tax , since the award would be for everyone regardless of if you join the group action or not  ??? sorry just thinking out load
Gonna be honest , that's exactly what I thought  , if case won everyone will get a pay out or at least get a pay rise, why risk it ? I admire those that do though , sometimes you can only be pushed so far and one person who was interviewed said the lose of double time on a sunday was the last straw for them !
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Charlie Harper on 08-03-18, 10:05AM
[gmod]Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).[/gmod]


I can only echo these views....if they win, we'll get it anyway, no need to sign up to anything.

Personally I don't hold out too much hope for them, different jobs within the same company equalling a different pay is hardly unusual.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 08-03-18, 10:49AM
Upwards of 3,000 Sainsbury employees have signed up with Leigh Day to fight their claim so perhaps it says more about the solidarity of that crowd or they feel there's weight in numbers? Maybe there is more cohesion and less division, who knows?

This isn't about 'different jobs': it's about jobs of 'equal value'. There is a huge difference.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: claden on 08-03-18, 12:03PM
Quote from: notsofunny on 07-03-18, 09:24PM
Only 100 claims have been issued ? and very large numbers are joining every day  ??? , but how come Tesco say they have still not got anything ?

Also was wondering , if they go ahead with this , Why would you want to join the law firm action , when if they win you will be having to pay them what is it 25% of the amount before tax , since the award would be for everyone regardless of if you join the group action or not  ??? sorry just thinking out load
There was a case of BHS workers who claimed something can't remember what but only the actual claimants got a pay out not all the staff.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 08-03-18, 01:28PM
If a claim of this type is successful then many could benefit in future, but the claimants may get a settlement in respect of arrears.  A dim view would be taken by courts of those than then try to create an identical claim for arrears.

If you miss the train it does not reverse up for you, nor should it.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: notsofunny on 08-03-18, 02:09PM
I can't see how a court has the power to take a view other than one that is legal
If someone takes a company to court and it's found that the company acted outside the law then everyone affected for the same offence is covered. That's the way I see it after all the papers have said it's 4 billion £ going back years .And if one person wins a case then a company is not going to waste money fighting the same type of case again.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 08-03-18, 02:42PM
Quote from: notsofunny on 07-03-18, 09:24PM
Only 100 claims have been issued ? and very large numbers are joining every day  ??? , but how come Tesco say they have still not got anything ?

Also was wondering , if they go ahead with this , Why would you want to join the law firm action , when if they win you will be having to pay them what is it 25% of the amount before tax , since the award would be for everyone regardless of if you join the group action or not  ??? sorry just thinking out load
I looked at some info about compensation/ settlements it looks like it wont be taxable. Those who will not join claim might receive lump sum from Tesco but it might be fully taxable as Nomad said earlier its a different train. 25% vs 32.8% .
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 08-03-18, 03:52PM
Still waiting to hear about the other hearing on losing doubletime .Then I might sign up for the new one .
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: notsofunny on 08-03-18, 08:53PM

Asda lost a case like this in 2016 but i cant find any update as to if they paid up or if its still going on , :question:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 08-03-18, 11:00PM
You wont hear much about Asda case or tescos double time case. Looks like no one is alowed to deliver information to the public. We all know that asda lost and company apealed. And thats it no other info been released to the press.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 08-03-18, 11:36PM
Did the appeals plead poverty??
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: baldeagle on 09-03-18, 06:44AM
The ASDA case is due to be heard in October.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 09-03-18, 04:00PM
After taking the advice of a few DC staff, on here, I transferred to distribution a couple of weeks ago and resigned from Tesco today as I can no longer bear it, even after just two weeks, as it's a death trap. Anybody that thinks that the work is anywhere near the same couldn't be further from the truth. After 10 years at Tesco it's now goodbye.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 09-03-18, 07:01PM
I don't know if I agree with the case BUT it's not about the job being the same . It's about the value the job brings to the company being the same. I think everyone would agree the DC is harder manual Labour.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 09-03-18, 08:41PM
With dealing with Joe Public many will say stores is harder mentally, and one balances out the other.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 09-03-18, 08:49PM
Agree Nomad but find it hilarious that this will probably be decided by a judge who will more than likely never have worked in a supermarket or DC in their life .
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Life after tossco on 09-03-18, 08:56PM
Email received today! Sign up and make this company pay for what we deserve!

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 09-03-18, 10:17PM
..or, at least, give it a go lol..

If you're struggling to achieve £8 an hour what have you got to lose?

Tesco have the largest retail market share so how come they don't pay the best rates? Shouldn't one somehow work in tandem with t'other? Who are they are investing in or looking after? A few or the many?

this:
One of the first changes post-merger is likely to be deliveries, according to FMCG consultant Janet Lung Standing. Tesco CEO Dave Lewis and Booker CEO Charles Wilson told investors the two company's 6,400 delivery vehicles would be merged into one fleet to improve efficiency

'one fleet' -  8)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 10-03-18, 11:00AM
Will bus drivers picking up holiday makers from the airport put in a claim to be paid the same as the airline pilot as it could be seen as equal value in getting the holiday maker to their destination?
Whole thing is madness.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: mexicopete on 10-03-18, 11:13AM
Quote from: OpShunned on 09-03-18, 10:17PM
..or, at least, give it a go lol..

If you're struggling to achieve £8 an hour what have you got to lose?

Tesco have the largest retail market share so how come they don't pay the best rates? Shouldn't one somehow work in tandem with t'other? Who are they are investing in or looking after? A few or the many?

this:
One of the first changes post-merger is likely to be deliveries, according to FMCG consultant Janet Lung Standing. Tesco CEO Dave Lewis and Booker CEO Charles Wilson told investors the two company's 6,400 delivery vehicles would be merged into one fleet to improve efficiency

'one fleet' -  8)
What Drastic really means is it will be merged into half a fleet. ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 10-03-18, 11:50AM
Have you seen the controls in a cockpit of an airliner you have to have a lot about you to fly one of them .A bus is like alorry except you are moving people and the controls are not no where As complex.So how can you compare them , I know the are both transporting people ,but they are technically different.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 10-03-18, 12:24PM
You have answered a vital point. Both are technically different. Warehouses are 100% computer controlled. From moment pallet comes into DC its scanned by intake. It's picked using arm mounted computers. It's loaded using arm mounted computers. All with performance management. It's delivered by highly qualified HGV drivers.
Stores don't use no where near technology. Dot com drivers use car licences. Not professional licences .
So far apart it's not real.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Life after tossco on 10-03-18, 12:35PM
It's not madness at all! We have had DC staff come to fill in our store when snow hits and they can't make it to there DC. They are slow and useless! If they were full time night staff fillers they wouldn't Stand a chance! Night replenishment is really hard labour and the rest of the night fillers on here would agree! Chucking 8x2l of pop on capping shelves and taking them down all night isn't easy let me tell you! Same as lifting the produce trays into the fixture's! It's back breaking work and should be paid inline with DC workers end of.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 10-03-18, 12:46PM
There's a reason they're slow and useless. It's because they have the shackles of performance management taken off them. They look at working in store as a jolly shift. Why should they push themselves when they are only there to make up numbers.
It would be no different if you worked in DC if you could not get to work.
Only difference is you would not be able to pick it load in DC as you would not be trained on how to use the ATM mounted terminals.
Whereas DC staff can fill shelves as that role doesn't need training
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Life after tossco on 10-03-18, 12:52PM
It's DC work I'm sure within 5mins anybody would be able to do the job 😂😂😂 it's hardly the most intelligent work is it😂😂😂 I have lorry licence and a flt so I'm hardly going to struggle to work in a DC!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 10-03-18, 04:39PM
Been shopping for mother's days flowers today in Tesco . 5 staff to fill up flowers. Actually 1 working. 3 chatting to each others for ages and one on telephone on Facebook.
Mind it could be they had no veg. Totally empty. All customers complaining.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 10-03-18, 05:20PM
In other news
;)
Should you or any of your colleagues have any questions about the case or about Equal Pay at TESCO please get in touch on 0800 689 0570 or tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk


thx
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: weebee on 11-03-18, 02:56AM
QuoteOne of the first changes post-merger is likely to be deliveries, according to FMCG consultant Janet Lung Standing. Tesco CEO Dave Lewis and Booker CEO Charles Wilson told investors the two company's 6,400 delivery vehicles would be merged into one fleet to improve efficiency

'one fleet' -  8)

So they are going to use Bookers model, as tesco  transport would be bankrupt within weeks if a stand alone company.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 12-03-18, 08:05PM
I think you will find, the T Distribution Network will absorb Booker Order Fulfilment and delivery locations wherever it can.
In actual fact T Distribution sites are already planning for the increase in work they will have to do and stock they will need to handle.

The planned changes are already being communicated in some areas. Fleet changes won't be the first thing in real terms.

Over to OpShunned to get the thread back on topic.  ;)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: pfsgirl on 16-03-18, 02:43PM
Quote from: spike_pkh on 30-03-17, 09:41PM
Not sure if this is related but our day managers in my store have been asked to start clocking to ensure they are not working too many hours and are being asked to take extra time back as time in lieu. Our night managers have not been asked to do this and they always work extra hours. Is there any "official" brief for this?

They were told the reason for this is managers in other stores have tried (and succeeded) suing tesco due to working extra hours each week

Time in lieu is not Tesco policy. Interesting to see where this one goes!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Me2015 on 16-03-18, 07:40PM
Spike - The claim failed so that story is a non starter!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 15-04-18, 08:48PM
Just a reminder that the equal pay petition is here;

https://www.change.org/p/tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work-tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work (https://www.change.org/p/tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work-tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work)

also; have heard that leigh-day have been having public meetings recently (re the equal pay case). Any body have any info?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 16-04-18, 03:33AM
^yeah I am sure some would like this to go away, but I just ain't gonna let it. Come on give the those girls on the front line in this case some moral support, and let them know that at least in spirit you are behind them.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 16-04-18, 08:24PM
whilst those in Dagenham (warehouse and Distribution) are attempting to fill their bags with some extra swag from the company coffers. And they are are on much more than those in stores.

Don't forget the equal pay petition (supporting those in stores) at;


https://www.change.org/p/tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work-tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work (https://www.change.org/p/tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work-tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Red75 on 16-04-18, 08:56PM
Whilst I don't doubt that staff at DC's work hard. Many customer/general assistants are being made to work increasingly hard due to the companies cost cutting. I work stock on a twilight shift. When we first moved from nights in November 2016 there were 23 staff on the shift with 100 hours overtime. Now there are 13 staff and no overtime. A number of staff are on short term contracts, quite often there are only 5 or 6 staff to fill a superstore. I don't know if I work hard, but my middle aged body after 8 and a half years of doing this is telling me that I do. I'm really stressed a lot of the time. I still do the biggest jobs in the department.
I can't help but feel negative about a future at Tesco. The board still has 1 and a half billion pounds of cuts to make to get up to it's 3.5% to 4% target profit margin. Things aren't going to get any better. Whose to say that if and when they meet this target they won't set more demanding target. A couple of percent above minimum wage, that's a customer assistants value. it's what they can morally and ethically get away with.
Some departments haven't suffered the same cuts as grocery has. I think of these as 'revenue' departments. Dotcom orders are always going to be shopped for and delivered.
The board are big time capitalists and the companies main motivation now seems to be providing a return for institutional investors and massive bonuses for those higher up. The 2.5% to 3.5% bonus we receive are just scraps to justify the executives and senior managements mega bonuses.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 16-04-18, 09:03PM
@Red75

have you signed the petition? If not your support would be appreciated by many.

And don't forget to send the link to your friends if possible. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: roughyedspud on 17-04-18, 03:41AM
It's not just women though is it...

DC Bob picks stock,puts it on a cage the puts it on a wagon..
GA Bob takes it off a wagon,off the cage and put on a shelf..as well as presenting the aisle and dealing with customers..

Yet DC Bob gets paid more per hour..
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 17-04-18, 08:22AM
You don't present aisles now.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: bugsbunny on 17-04-18, 09:31PM
I have attended one of Leigh Days public meetings, it was very informative definetly would recommend attending one. If you would like Leigh Day to run one of these meetings in your area contact them and ask them and they will run one. Just for information you will only receive the 6years back pay if you sign up with Leigh Day. Anyone who does NOT sign up would only receive the new pay going forward (if we won the case) NOT the back pay
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 17-04-18, 09:34PM
please keep us informed :thumbup:

and please pass the link to the petition on. We only have 65 signatories so far, so there is long way to go.

https://www.change.org/p/tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work-tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work (https://www.change.org/p/tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work-tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work)

you do not have to work for tesco to support the petition and give moral support to those who are fighting for this cause.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: notsofunny on 17-04-18, 10:39PM
Quote from: bugsbunny on 17-04-18, 09:31PM
I have attended one of Leigh Days public meetings, it was very informative definetly would recommend attending one. If you would like Leigh Day to run one of these meetings in your area contact them and ask them and they will run one. Just for information you will only receive the 6years back pay if you sign up with Leigh Day. Anyone who does NOT sign up would only receive the new pay going forward (if we won the case) NOT the back pay

can you show us from which place you read that the award would only go to those that sigh on with Leigh and days ?
also from all the talk about how many have joined the case are they saying that 65 have sigh on so far ? are they waiting for more to sigh on before starting the case so as to make more money out of it if they win ?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 17-04-18, 10:53PM
sorry to butt in

but the 65 that you mention is the number that have supported the 'petition' set up on change.org. NOT those who are taking part in the legal action (this figure is much higher) hopefully somebody else could chime in with that figure.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 18-04-18, 01:15AM
It's hard to say how many there is. When I joined the claim it was already over thousand people.  That was in February.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 18-04-18, 08:20AM
What if you do a skilled job that they don't do at the depot eg counters Csd bakery what's the point of signing up.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: bugsbunny on 18-04-18, 03:02PM
If you speak to Leigh Day they will explain all about only people who sign up will get the back pay. Speak to them don't listen to hearsay or presume. Speak to them get it from the horses mouth.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 18-04-18, 04:25PM
Hammer  it doesn't make a difference if u are skilled I'm a team support. I have been accepted to join the claim. It makes no difference. I guess if they win u would get less damages as the difference between a skilled wage and contested figure is lower than a ca
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BIMB on 18-04-18, 04:46PM
[admin]Please do not ask the same question in more than one thread, even more so when one is the wrong thread entirely. [/admin]
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: notsofunny on 18-04-18, 07:56PM
Quote from: lordadmiral on 18-04-18, 01:15AM
It's hard to say how many there is. When I joined the claim it was already over thousand people.  That was in February.
How much % do they take from the money you win ? and did they tell you that to get a pay out you had to join them ? Reason I am asking is that when the PPI scandel came out they made out that we had to get a claims company to pay make a claim for us , Only then to find that all we had to do was contact the banks out self and get paid with out any cut being taken from our pay out  ,
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: bugsbunny on 18-04-18, 08:12PM
As I have already said, speak to Leigh Day then make your decision. That is what I did and I am happy that I have joined. If you don't want to join then don't, it is your choice. There is no point in keep questioning on here. Find out for yourself they are very happy to speak to anyone.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 18-04-18, 08:14PM
@notsofunny


I s'pose anybody could bring a case themselves. They could even represent themselves.
I think that maybe the PPI situation may not be the correct sort of yardstick, as with PPI all you had to do was fill in form etc and I would imagine the process was made as 'joe public proof' as possible.

But when it comes to a full scale legal battle, I personally think that you better get people who know exactly what they are doing, at least for the issues surrounding administrative process. Just me thunking aloud. and may be wrong.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 19-04-18, 01:24AM
Quote from: notsofunny on 18-04-18, 07:56PM
Quote from: lordadmiral on 18-04-18, 01:15AM
It's hard to say how many there is. When I joined the claim it was already over thousand people.  That was in February.
How much % do they take from the money you win ? and did they tell you that to get a pay out you had to join them ? Reason I am asking is that when the PPI scandel came out they made out that we had to get a claims company to pay make a claim for us , Only then to find that all we had to do was contact the banks out self and get paid with out any cut being taken from our pay out  ,
They send you all info.25% will be deducted if claim will be succesfull. They state that the more will join the less the cost would be. But numbers must go into dozens of tousands to cut pay to something like 300 per person.
  Its no win no fee. If u sign in then u cant resign easly as some of the lawers take 500 pound per hour. So its better to play till end rather than resigning in the middle when some work is done.
Correct me if im wrong but i thing any claim up to 20k is tax free.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: notsofunny on 19-04-18, 01:34AM
Quote from: bugsbunny on 18-04-18, 08:12PM
As I have already said, speak to Leigh Day then make your decision. That is what I did and I am happy that I have joined. If you don't want to join then don't, it is your choice. There is no point in keep questioning on here. Find out for yourself they are very happy to speak to anyone.

sorry i spoke  8-)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: notsofunny on 19-04-18, 01:46AM
lordadmiral and optout thank you :) , I will pass this on to someone that asked me , I am not one of those that has been thinking about  this since it does not effect me ,  She has been yes no about joining up for over 3 months , just wish she would sigh up to this site and ask herself  8-)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: cityboy on 19-04-18, 08:57AM
This case is unwinnable. If you are paying men and women the same rate in distribution, and paying the same rate to men and women in store, then why is their a sexist aspect to it? By making this argument about sexism, you are giving Tesco's lawyers a gift , letting them off the actual disparity of" fill a cage/empty a cage ", that is where the real difference lies between stores and distributions pay. We both do the same un-skilled job that results in customers buying what Tesco are selling. That is why we deserve equal pay, nothing to do with our genitals!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 19-04-18, 09:10AM
  ;D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: cityboy on 19-04-18, 10:07AM
Quote from: roughyedspud on 17-04-18, 03:41AM
It's not just women though is it...

DC Bob picks stock,puts it on a cage the puts it on a wagon..
GA Bob takes it off a wagon,off the cage and put on a shelf..as well as presenting the aisle and dealing with customers..

Yet DC Bob gets paid more per hour..
Exactly that!!Barbara in DC or in store makes the same contribution. Equal pay for both Barbaras and Bobs!!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 19-04-18, 10:30AM
Zzz
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 19-04-18, 12:09PM
Gender Bias gets it in through the courtroom door , but will ultimately loose the case.

Work of Equal value may have some merit where Unskilled roles are compared.

The comparison struggles where some roles have a Legal accreditation.

Any established disparity that is unreasonable would have to be because of gender, either directly or indirectly for the claim to win.

The Asda case is different as it has different evidence which is contrary to the T situation.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 19-04-18, 02:04PM
DC Bob puts it in cage. Timed to the second using electronic picking- tagging.
DC Bob loads cage using electronic scanners- tagging. DC knows where and what Bob is doing all the time.

Store Bob gingerly takes off wagon. No pressure. No electronic measures. .
Store Bob puts stock on shelves. In between have a chat to colleagues. Check Facebook or text on phone on shop floor. ( Don't even dare say they don't as a customer I see it all time)
They are in no rush. No monitoring.

Perhaps if store staff want to be treated equally maybe the company need arm mounted computers for Store Bob or Store Barbara. Equalities get it right. Let's see how many store staff are up for such electronic measures. Arive at aisle. Scan box of cornflakes. Scan shelf. Put on shelf. Scan next box etc etc. Scan barcode in backroom every time you go and get  more stock. Get pulled in for  still time throughout shift.Be careful what you wish for.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: dizzy_1 on 19-04-18, 02:28PM
Retrokid, you have no idea how many staff members I would love to put a tracking tagger on!!! At least we could find them when they turn into Houdini each shift.  :D ;D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 19-04-18, 05:55PM
Dizzy_1

You better make sure the tracker can count the number of toilet visits made by employee to ensure the pilot is rolled out.   :)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: notsofunny on 19-04-18, 06:41PM
wonder how Zone Scanner's /Trackers would go down in Tesco ? Seen them at work in China , in which when you go into a rest area which also has your Wash rooms you would need to scan your arm band which would then total up all the time you have spent in that area and the deduct the time from your pay  8)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Rigger on 19-04-18, 07:34PM
Quote from: Retrokid on 19-04-18, 02:04PM
DC Bob puts it in cage. Timed to the second using electronic picking- tagging.
DC Bob loads cage using electronic scanners- tagging. DC knows where and what Bob is doing all the time.

Store Bob gingerly takes off wagon. No pressure. No electronic measures. .
Store Bob puts stock on shelves. In between have a chat to colleagues. Check Facebook or text on phone on shop floor. ( Don't even dare say they don't as a customer I see it all time)
They are in no rush. No monitoring.

Perhaps if store staff want to be treated equally maybe the company need arm mounted computers for Store Bob or Store Barbara. Equalities get it right. Let's see how many store staff are up for such electronic measures. Arive at aisle. Scan box of cornflakes. Scan shelf. Put on shelf. Scan next box etc etc. Scan barcode in backroom every time you go and get  more stock. Get pulled in for  still time throughout shift.Be careful what you wish for.

Exactly what retrokid says. I've said it before & I'll say it again, store staff would t last 5 mins in a DC, the DC I work out of is surrounded by, Extras, superstores,Metros & expresses & I know for a fact only 1 person has transferred from store to DC, store staff want DC money but don't want the work that goes with it,  Dress the claim up under any banner title you want but that's what it boils down to, people like optout winding people up telling them to jump on the gravy train,  I hope stays around to take the flak when it derails & gets laughed out of court.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 19-04-18, 10:14PM
68 people have signed the petition so far

https://www.change.org/p/tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work-tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work (https://www.change.org/p/tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work-tesco-s-women-retail-workers-deserve-equal-pay-for-equal-work)

please give some moral support to those fighting :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 19-04-18, 10:41PM
Can we stop the Stores v DC bulls***. I have worked in both and you get the grafters and those not prepared to do a hands turn in both.  The major problem is the place is full of managers giving there their friends and an easy time. Others are asked to pick up the slack and end up off with stress.  Another issue is the number of people who are unfit to do the role they are in and end up being carried by the rest of the team.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 20-04-18, 02:46AM
Well said GreenGrocer  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 20-04-18, 07:48AM
DC staff are trained on several different types of manual handling equipment that wouldn't fit in a store, this makes the skills between DC and store different.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 23-04-18, 08:33PM
Don't forget to give some moral support to those taking part in the legal action. The equal pay petition is here;

https://www.change.org/search?q=tesco%20equal (https://www.change.org/search?q=tesco%20equal)

remember you do not have to work for tesco to give your moral support.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 23-04-18, 10:11PM
Quote from: Carparkpothole on 20-04-18, 07:48AM
DC staff are trained on several different types of manual handling equipment that wouldn't fit in a store, this makes the skills between DC and store different.

Store staff are trained in several things that wouldn't fit in a DC.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: roughyedspud on 24-04-18, 05:23AM
Quote from: Carparkpothole on 20-04-18, 07:48AM
DC staff are trained on several different types of manual handling equipment that wouldn't fit in a store, this makes the skills between DC and store different.

training at DC on how to stack cages & dollies wouldn't go a miss lol
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 24-04-18, 08:03AM
Agreed  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: takethemoneyandrun on 24-04-18, 08:11AM
The way the cages come in stacked are utterly shocking!! Cartons of milk and ready meals staked on top of sandwiches and cream cakes!!.
I wouldn't pay them in washers. 8-) 8-) 8-)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 24-04-18, 09:19AM
That's because DC staff are performance managed and it's in DC staff interest to throw it in cage as quickly as possible and move onto next cage. It's been that way for years.  Perhaps if store staff were performance managed by way of arm mounted computers then store staff would be in the same rush to unpack the cage.  But store staff are not performance managed so the same rushing environment don't apply to them.

That's the problem when " you get 2 different ways of working not adding up to the same equal value" one pulling against the other in opposite directions.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 24-04-18, 06:46PM
So effectively you are not performance managed on the qualitative aspect of the job.  So your speed has increased yet the quality has decreased, so the overall work/effort-load has remained the same????????
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 25-04-18, 01:04PM
Leigh Day Update:

I am writing further to my letter of 23 March 2018 advising you of the Judgment.

We have met with our barrister and gone through the Judgment carefully. I have also taken the unusual step of obtaining a second opinion on the merits of appealing and it is with much disappointment that I must report that we cannot advise that any appeal has reasonable prospects of success and Leigh Day cannot advise you to appeal the Judgment and nor are we in a position to appeal the decision on your behalf.

Our view and that of both barristers is that the chances of success on appeal are, on balance, less than evens.   Even if we were successful at the Employment Appeal Tribunal, the case would almost certainly be sent back to Judge Pearl and the original Employment Tribunal panel to reconsider the Judgment in light of any correction in law from the Employment Appeal Tribunal. Employment Judge Pearl was comfortable with the agreement reached between Tesco and Usdaw and so even if the appeal succeeds at any rehearing it is likely the same outcome will arise.

However for those of you in the Equal Pay claim –  if the male comparators at the Distribution Centres  still receive or previously received double pay for Sundays and Bank Holiday Mondays,  we will look to recover the difference in your Equal Pay claim.

For the reasons above Leigh Day will not be appealing the decision.  Should you wish to appeal the decision yourself, the appeal must be submitted to the Employment Appeal Tribunal by 4pm Friday 27 April 2018.  If however you disagree with our advice and wish to appeal the decision and represent yourself then please contact us and given the short timescales we will assist you as far as we are able to do so.

Yours sincerely
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 25-04-18, 07:44PM
Many thanks for the update :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 26-04-18, 11:10PM
We still need people to sign the petition. Let's try to get to at-least 100. Ask your friends and family to sign, in support of our tesco shop-floor colleagues. IF this case is successful, this could be significant history in the making. Be a part of the fight. :thumbup:

petition is here

https://www.change.org/search?q=tesco%20equal (https://www.change.org/search?q=tesco%20equal)

you don't even have to use your own name. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 27-04-18, 11:02AM
Tesco will pay Leigh Day to back off just as they do with USDAW.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 07-05-18, 08:14PM
@GreenGrocer

that depends on how many of us they believe are actively watching.

for those who would like to tell the courts and tesco that they are being watched, here is the petition. Remember you do not have to work for tesco in order to show your support.

https://www.change.org/search?q=tesco%20equal (https://www.change.org/search?q=tesco%20equal)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: hlcjon13 on 05-07-18, 12:31PM
Have you guys heard about this? https://payjustice.co.uk/go/ec-tesco-sign-up/

It seems to be the same as the Asda claim, diff in pay between distribution and shop floor staff. The more who join, higher our chances are in getting equal pay! Please let others know too!!!  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: notsofunny on 05-07-18, 02:10PM
How does the chances get higher if more join ?  I cant see that , but I could be Missing something ,
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: hlcjon13 on 05-07-18, 02:57PM
Quote from: notsofunny on 05-07-18, 02:10PM
How does the chances get higher if more join ?  I cant see that , but I could be Missing something ,

think its more likely to go through if more people stand up against Tesco!  :P
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 09-07-18, 06:58PM
Arrived today ...

"Tesco's defence to equal pay now received

We have now received and considered the defence from Tesco in respect of the equal pay claims that we are bringing for Store workers.

As we expected Tesco has denied having an equal pay problem.

Tesco has brought Usdaw's involvement in all pay negotiations into the spotlight by arguing that Usdaw negotiates pay in relation to the Stores and Distribution Centres separately and while this is true, it does not provide Tesco with a defence. It remains our view, supported by evidence, that Tesco is ultimately responsible for all pay decisions and that they have to power to resolve the issue, should they wish to do so. If Tesco wanted to equalise pay between Stores and Distribution Centres they could do so right now.   

What Tesco's defence does highlight is that Usdaw has some serious questions to answer about its role in the pay inequality. We will be taking steps to obtain information from Usdaw as well as Tesco around those pay negotiations.

Tesco also says that Store workers cannot compare themselves to Distribution Centre workers as different employment contractual terms apply to each. We remain satisfied that the appeal court decisions about comparisons in equal pay cases do allow Tesco Store workers to compare against Distribution Centres workers. 

Tesco go on to say, that even if you can lawfully compare your roles (and we say you can), that the work you do is not of 'equal value' to that undertaken in Distribution Centres. This is the heart of case and we are not surprised to see Tesco say as much. We fundamentally disagree with Tesco on this point. As we have said before, it is the Tribunal, assisted by Independent Experts, who ultimately decide whether the work is of 'equal value'. It is not up to Tesco to decide.

They also say that they have to pay Distribution Centre workers more in order to attract people to apply for that type of work. And as a final defence, they argue that lower wages in Stores keeps them more competitive in the supermarket industry. This is an interesting point by Tesco bearing in mind our research shows that Aldi and Lidl pay Store workers and Distribution Centre workers the same and they compete very well. 

Settlement

Rather than settling claims, which is common in group claims of this nature, Tesco's lawyers have indicated to us that they are waiting for changes to the law to prevent employees from claiming as much as 6 years of back pay (5 years in Scotland) in an equal pay claim. The principle of Equal Pay in this country has been driven by the European Union and we think this is wishful thinking on their part whilst European Union law continues to apply. With Brexit increasingly closer, there is always a possibility that future governments might seek to reduce the amount of back pay that those with an equal pay claim can ask for, but this will not affect any claims that are brought before then. So your claims for a maximum of 6 years (5 years in Scotland) worth of back pay are safe.

In all, there is nothing of any concern in the defence raised by Tesco and it was exactly what we expected. "

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lackofinterest on 09-07-18, 07:20PM
tesco trying to blame usdaw after all that usdaw have done for them :P
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Loki on 09-07-18, 07:33PM
Oh dear, this and the current Sunday/BH cushion payment doesn't help Tesco and more so Usdaw!

"they argue that lower wages in Stores keeps them more competitive in the supermarket industry."

An admission that this reason mitigates our pay cuts with no compensation AND that Usdaw are in total alliance with them on this point.

Usdaw have a lot to answer for. It's no surprise that ANY company will try and stagnate/reduce employees' wages/terms and conditions. However, for a Union to endorse an outdated if not undemocratic means to agree a pay deal remains outrageous. Now they are placed in a position where they will truly be shown to be weak publicly.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Equalizer87 on 10-07-18, 01:27AM
And all those who thought the Union was worth fighting to change,  look at what you have endorsed.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 10-07-18, 11:35AM
Trying to shift focus to USDAW was expected surely!

Of course they are going to draw reference to 2 completely different Pay review processes.

If you must talk about what has been Endorsed and who Endorsed it, then realistically both pay review processes have Endorsed themselves during all of the good years when negotiating members were happy to take the good pay awards without question or any mention of equal value.

I will agree with Loki and do sincerely hope the Retail PRP is shown up to be
un-democratic at least because it really does look like there isn't any inclination to change the process from within it.

Having the right people on it also helps, I was suprised to see a clause accepted by the company, but it was a clause of acceptance from the workforce, in Last years Pay Negs 17/18, if any other negotiating group within Distribution were to be awarded more then it would apply to all, we are now looking to receive that extra, backdated.

Why wouldn't I Endorse that Mentality that represents me!! I'd be a fool not to.


Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 11-07-18, 10:28PM
Leigh Day has announced that it has now lodged the first 1000 equal pay claims against Tesco on behalf of female members of staff in potentially the largest ever equal pay challenge in UK history.
https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/News-2018/July-2018/Law-firm-announces-first-1000-equal-pay-claims-aga (https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/News-2018/July-2018/Law-firm-announces-first-1000-equal-pay-claims-aga)

11 July 2018

The legal action has been estimated as potentially costing the supermarket giant £4bn in compensation to workers.

According to the law firm they have received thousands more enquiries and expect the number of claims from Tesco staff, over the disparity in pay between store staff and those in the predominantly male dominated distribution centres, to continue to rise.

Following the announcement in February 2018 that the firm was taking this legal action, lawyers in the employment team at Leigh Day have hosted meetings across the country and created a specialist unit to handle calls from women and men who work in the stores and are paid considerably less than their colleagues in the distribution centres.

Paula Lee one of the lawyers handling the Tesco claims at Leigh Day, said: "We've had an incredible response to the announcement of this legal action. Many proud members of staff have realised that this claim is not anti-Tesco, but it is to ensure that the work done in stores and distribution centres is recognised as being of equal value; not the same work, but work of equal value and that they should be paid the same as their colleagues in distribution.

"Both store staff and distribution staff play an essential role in making billions of pounds for Tesco executives and shareholders, they should both be paid equally for what they contribute to the business.

"The concept of 'women's work' is an outdated approach to employment from the middle of the last century which needs to be corrected."
Are you eligible?
Research by Leigh Day has found that people working in the predominantly male dominated Tesco distribution centres may earn in excess of £11.00 an hour whilst the most common grade for store staff sees them receive around £8.00 per hour.

This means a full-time distribution worker completing the same number of hours, earns over £100 a week or £5,000 a year more than female-based store staff.

The underpayment of workers could apply to over 250,000 Tesco employees, with estimated pay shortfalls that could reach £20,000. The final bill for Tesco could be as high as £4bn.

Alongside the claim against Tesco, Leigh Day is currently representing over 20,000 shop-floor workers in equal pay claims against fellow supermarket giants Sainsbury's and ASDA, which both face similar claims of discrepancies in pay between the male dominated distribution centres and the mainly female staffed stores.

Paula Lee continued:

"According to the latest Annual Report from Tesco the remuneration package for the Chief Executive Officer and the Chief Financial Officer totalled £6.3m, yet figures show that Tesco employees are having to claim millions of pounds in working tax credits, paying people fairly benefits the whole of society."

Information was correct at time of publishing. See terms and conditions for further details.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 11-07-18, 10:53PM
May earn in excess of £11 pounds per hour!!!

Tell me the warehouse that pays an hourly rate of in excess of £11 per hour! Please!
Or are we talking a comparible hourly rate late 8's Early 9's with WHERE APPLICABLE AND AVAILABLE,  an incentive bonus creating an additional hourly element of pay dependant on performance. Which incidentally is not the Norm within Distribution.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: cityboy on 12-07-18, 12:02AM
I wish our distribution colleagues did earn that amount per hour, giving us an amount to aspire to! That exaggeration aside, well said Paula Lee !!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: madness on 12-07-18, 12:48AM
90% of our checkout operators could handle any sort of physical work in a warehouse. It is not comparible work.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: cityboy on 12-07-18, 02:23AM
madness, do you mean couldn't? If you meant could, and I hope so, and therefore deserve equal to our distribution colleagues. If you are a distribution worker who goes home tired and aching every day, then I sympathise, because that's what I go through night after night! I am getting on a bit and finding it harder now. But, Tesco still need you to supply, me to fill and display, and my co-workers to take the money. What price each of us three?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 12-07-18, 07:32AM
 :thumbup: cityboy
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Red75 on 12-07-18, 07:57AM
Its not easy filling the shelves. I'm sure we are facing a lot of the same pressures that distribution are - high staff turnover and poor staffing levels.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 12-07-18, 10:45AM
Avonmouth DC . Still have over 100 vacancies in DC. Please feel free to internal apply if you live in Bristol area. After all it's the same work isn't it???
However don't expect over £11 an hour. Rate is  £9-70 an hour. Sorry to disappoint.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: cityboy on 12-07-18, 10:55AM
The staff hours/levels have been left to erode so much in our store, yet the night managers are still bullied into trying to finish the work each night despite not having the staff/hours to do the job! We used to have 3 and a half full time staff on my department, now 2 of us are expected to do the same job. Another hidden wage cut via Dave Lewis. He will leave with the place worse off and millions in pocket. kn**h**d!! Can the next C.E.O. get the staff behind him/her? Good luck with that one!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Blodwyn on 12-07-18, 11:15AM
I have joined the equal pay claim against Tesco & urge fellow shop floor workers to do the same. It is not just for women, it includes men who can submit a piggy back claim. After working for the company for 31 years I have lost double time, now time & a half. I have not been off sick for over 20 years even though I would get full sick pay, & have contributed to the prosperity of Tesco. Why should I get a lower rate of pay to distribution workers, as I am till trained, dot com trained, drag in delivery, split it & work it, just give me a broom & I'll insert it! Leigh Day have just won the first round of the Asda equal pay claim & believe they can do the same for us. The extra hourly rate of £3 per hour over 6 years would also have given us a bigger pension, which is included in the claim. It's no win no fee so you have nothing to lose.
I urge you all to join or would you rather see Dave Lewis get a bigger bonus doing a job that would not have been necessary if our leading executives had not possibly committed fraud.
Here endeth the sermon.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: cityboy on 12-07-18, 11:26AM
Retrokid, we need you to supply the stock, you need us to sell the stock, we both need Tesco to  make a profit to pay us a wage. If I lived near Bristol, I would consider it. As I don't, I won't. I would expect hard work at both.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: cityboy on 12-07-18, 12:12PM
Blodwyn, you have been put through the mill, as have I, and I bet you loved working for Tesco years ago. But now managers and higher-ups see us as disposable, in favour of flexi-workers, we can do nothing but put up with it. I wish you luck with the Leigh Day thing, but the Tesco hierarchy will still find a way to minimum wage us all by 2020!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 12-07-18, 08:00PM
Maybe distribution centre workers should get £11 an hour too.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 12-07-18, 08:59PM
Quote from: cityboy on 12-07-18, 12:12PM
Blodwyn, you have been put through the mill, as have I, and I bet you loved working for Tesco years ago. But now managers and higher-ups see us as disposable, in favour of flexi-workers, we can do nothing but put up with it. I wish you luck with the Leigh Day thing, but the Tesco hierarchy will still find a way to minimum wage us all by 2020!

Absolutely!!! And an erroneous claim with the potential of £4 Billion will facilitate the fast track to it.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 12-07-18, 09:11PM
I hope this equal pay claim is successful and there isn't enough money to pay Dave his wages let alone the million rise he feels he merits after screwing young families over.  I told them I wasn't doing any overtime a while ago because I never got paid correctly but the management offered me it again yesterday as if nothing had happened. We keep getting new staff who don't last or should not pass the probationary time. Advertise this site in DC and stores so that people can decide if they want to mess about with this place.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Loki on 12-07-18, 09:12PM
Quote from: Duracell on 12-07-18, 08:59PM
Quote from: cityboy on 12-07-18, 12:12PM
Blodwyn, you have been put through the mill, as have I, and I bet you loved working for Tesco years ago. But now managers and higher-ups see us as disposable, in favour of flexi-workers, we can do nothing but put up with it. I wish you luck with the Leigh Day thing, but the Tesco hierarchy will still find a way to minimum wage us all by 2020!

Absolutely!!! And an erroneous claim with the potential of £4 Billion will facilitate the fast track to it.

That's a best case scenario lol
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 12-07-18, 09:24PM
It will be a pity when I can't feel the aches and pains of my GA role but seeing Dave getting the shaft would more than compensate this.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Blodwyn on 12-07-18, 10:47PM
[gmod]It appears you quoted your early post with no additional comment.[/gmod]
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Mark calloway on 24-07-18, 03:00PM
I've got the form to sign. Is it going to be worth it? Can tosco find out who's tried to claim?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 24-07-18, 03:12PM
Quote from: nightslave101 on 07-02-18, 07:38PM
I can see this going down like a lead balloon. As someone has said, any barrister worth their salt will likely rip it apart. It's sexist for one.

You have women working alongside men in distribution on the same hourly rate. You have women working alongside men in stores, again on the same hourly rate. How in anyone's world can you award just the women working at stores back pay, what about all the men on the lower rated compared to the men at distribution?

If they can prove the jobs are the same then surely everyone should be due some sort of back pay.

I can see the difference, putting a box of cornflakes onto a cage is the polar opposite if taking it off. also if the claim is successful then yes even the men at stores will get a payout.


Instead of saying 'Oh you wont last a day in a DC' explain to us what the difference between the jobs is because from a laymans point of view they look remarkably similar.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Mark calloway on 24-07-18, 06:11PM
Is it sort of saying that women who sit on a till should earn the same as someone who loads cages all day?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Blodwyn on 24-07-18, 06:29PM
Quote from: carlh on 24-07-18, 03:00PM
I've got the form to sign. Is it going to be worth it? Can tosco find out who's tried to claim?

Head office will know as Leigh Day have to contact them with your national insurance number to validate that you do work for Tesco but your store manager is unlikely to know. It really doesn't matter as there are strong victimisation laws in place if they object to your claim. It's on a no win no fee basis so you have nothing to lose.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Mark calloway on 24-07-18, 07:03PM
How many on here are claiming?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 24-07-18, 07:20PM
I am and quite a few in my store.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 24-07-18, 07:37PM
It should be remembered that some jobs are physically taxing and some mentally taxing.  Mentally taxing can be just as tiring either through mental effort (in many forms) or even boredom, a boring day can really do ones head in.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: rupert7 on 24-07-18, 07:59PM
Quote from: GreenGrocer on 12-07-18, 09:24PM
It will be a pity when I can't feel the aches and pains of my GA role but seeing Dave getting the shaft would more than compensate this.
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Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: sfo on 24-07-18, 08:20PM
Spoke to Leigh Day the other day re the Sunday rip off and asked if there was going to be a class action over Sunday premium. He said it was unlikely as they they lost the last claim over double time to time and a half. He asked if I heard about the Equal pay claim and I said I had but didn't sign up to it as I am male and work in a CFC. He said that my CFC is classed as a store and being male is no impediment to making a claim. I asked how much it would cost. He said it's no win no fee. I said  " so it's a free bet then ?" He said "Yes". I signed up straight away. Then spoke to a mate of mine today whose wife works at ASDA. ASDA staff are represented by UNITE. When a similar claim came up UNITE wrote to all their members urging them to join the claim.
Where are USDAW in all of this?
The reps appear or pretend to know nothing about this legal action.
I strongly advise all colleagues to visit the Leigh Day website and register a claim - it takes minutes and it's free.
Maybe Leigh Day will win or they will lose but it's a free bet.
AND CANCEL YOUR UNION MEMBERSHIP THEY ARE NOT SUPPORTING YOU
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: M271 BLUES on 24-07-18, 10:26PM
I have worked 5 years in one of our stores, I year shelf filling on nights and then 4 years in the store warehouse, the last 23 years I have worked in one of our distribution centres. So I feel I can say 100% about this topic. The jobs are totally different in so many ways. I am now in my 50's and am looking at moving back to a store job as I'm now finding the job harder and harder to do in the distribution centre. Also I have had colleagues that have been ill or injured, and been sent to stores to work while they get fitter, I don't see it happening the other way. 
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: sfo on 24-07-18, 10:50PM
You're probably right but it's worth a punt
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 25-07-18, 03:10AM
@M271Blues
I think you would find stores a completely different place now than 23yrs ago !
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: roughyedspud on 25-07-18, 03:51AM
Quote from: M271 BLUES on 24-07-18, 10:26PM
I have worked 5 years in one of our stores, I year shelf filling on nights and then 4 years in the store warehouse, the last 23 years I have worked in one of our distribution centres. So I feel I can say 100% about this topic. The jobs are totally different in so many ways. I am now in my 50's and am looking at moving back to a store job as I'm now finding the job harder and harder to do in the distribution centre. Also I have had colleagues that have been ill or injured, and been sent to stores to work while they get fitter, I don't see it happening the other way.

DC staff pick stock,put it on a cage/dolly,take said cage/dolly to a area to be put on a wagon.

GA staff take the cage/dolly from a area after its been taken off a wagon,take the stock off the said cage/dolly and put it on the shelves...

Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: oldfashionedplayer on 25-07-18, 05:07AM
don't forget GA's extra duties are  - deal with customers, deal with dot com, waste process / PDA reductions, security tagging, moving cages, dollies and pallets off of wagons, filling shelves with that stock, filling backstock, high level, clean as you go, theft incidents, checkouts, customer service, fresh, produce, health & beauty, toys, I dunno about all the things DC's have but we run around like headless chickens all night, with maybe 12-14 people on a full shift to fill sort all of that out between 10pm and 7am....

i dunno all the job stuff that DC staff have, but for the amount we do I think being paid less is unjustified. a lot has changed in the 5+ years I've worked for tosco, a HELL of a lot of changes that have made things much worse, we used to have 3x the number of staff back when this store opened.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 25-07-18, 05:24AM
I think you're being a tad over generous with your description of "extra duties".

"moving cages" I should stick that on my CV.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: JL on 25-07-18, 08:12AM
Alf you've got the job :)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 25-07-18, 10:04AM
Equal value has nothing to do with the Physicality (or not) of a job, think about it.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Blodwyn on 25-07-18, 03:38PM
Quote from: Nomad on 25-07-18, 10:04AM
Equal value has nothing to do with the Physicality (or not) of a job, think about it.

You have hit the nail right on the head! So many colleagues just do not get it.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 25-07-18, 04:11PM
This assertion is false, physical effort is one of aspects when determining "like work", of course its only one aspect there are many, even effort is broken down in mental effort alongside physical.

Of course the thorny issue is when jobs aren't "like work" but may be of "equal value"

The infamous case of dinner ladies vs binman comes to mind,
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 25-07-18, 06:29PM
So many times one hears the phrase from physical workers, "I work harder than you so should get paid more".

Reasoning by that criteria alone means teachers and a few others should be paid peanuts.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 25-07-18, 06:45PM
I never said "alone", I even said it's one of many.

But regardless, claiming physical effort has nothing to do with equal value assessments is simply false.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: grim up north on 25-07-18, 08:16PM
Quote from: Nomad on 25-07-18, 10:04AM
Equal value has nothing to do with the Physicality (or not) of a job, think about it.

A surgeon would have no one to operate on if the porter wasn't there. Do porters deserve the same pay as surgeons?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lucgeo on 25-07-18, 08:42PM
Well I for one think sanitary cleaners, of every description, should be paid twice as much as they do....they are in the lowest pay bracket, on s*** wages for shovelling s***.

Three colleagues shot out of the customers toilets last week, one after the other, all demanding, between retching and gagging, for a cleaner to be called to "deal with it" off they strutted to share the horror they had just endured, without a second thought of compassion for the poor cleaner going in to "deal with it!!!"  :-X :-X
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 25-07-18, 09:32PM
Nevermind the porter, what about the canteen staff that cook and serve the Food to Patients? If we are to take the simplistic view and ignore all other credible reasoning, then very often if a surgeon doesn't operate the patient will inevitably die, The patient once the highly paid surgeon operates then needs to eat if long term patients don't eat because the food is not cooked or served they will die, so based on the simplistic reasoning and the same balance of potential probability, Death. Hospital Catering Staff are of equal value to surgeons so should be paid the same.

In all the discussion people ask for one good reason for the disparity, yet they have continually ignored it when it has been given, it is not an opinion of an individual it's FACT ABOUT HOW THINGS WORK. Rates are established set and reviewed based on industry and Market trends, retail and distribution are different industries driven by different trends, the business need for Retail is different to Distribution there are very different legal obligation and demands in both.
This Factual reasoning is not just practiced by T it is practiced by most large employers, they look to have a competitive package in each devision of the business relative to that particular industry, where they don't which is currently happening in two particular Distribution Locations they fail miserably to retain staff and the turnover of staff is very high.
Go to a fruit wholesaler and tell them apples and oranges are the same because the simplistic view is they are both a fruit so should be the same price. Or a Fishmonger because the Atlantic Salmon is dearer than Pollock they should be the same they are both fish.

The simplistic view misses so much relative information it would be quite laughable if it wasn't so Niaeve, the pay is relative to the industry type and market rates and demands of that sector of the Business that is fact, compare your pay to another company with the same devision you work in, Boots, Aldi, Lidl, Sainsbury's, Asda... How do they rates compare are they competitive?

Pay is not about the simplistic task, even if you could establish the value of any given task or group of tasks by breaking cost and need down to an individual level you still can't set the rates by that alone because if you dismiss the market rates and industry trends then you ultimately start to erode locational differences. Because the simplistic view that sees pushing a cage as pushing a cage doesn't care weather that cage is being pushed in London or Skegness, the simplistic view will remove all of the justified extras for the yeah buts, which is what market rates and industry standards take into account.

Such an erroneous claim would not only be the biggest unjust demand this company has ever seen it will also cause major problems for Employment in general. Who is paying for the 300 million for the accounting scandal and that was justified where do you think the cost of the claim will fall win or Lose.

The good reason for the disparity in rates in different markets and decisions with different demands, hear is just one consideration Retail has a SUNDAY opt out if they want people in they have to compensate for facilitating Sunday trading with overtime as it seems you could in theory all say no. Distribution have no choice.
So in the name of equal value and equality whilst we are simplisticly standing on the thin end of the wedge, Should the Sunday opt out be abolished along with Location Pay? Because that is what a simplistic view dismisses.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 25-07-18, 09:35PM
Alf, I don't disagree with you I was merely encouraging the physical/mental work value debate.  It is one of those things where one group will have the opposite opinion to the others, neither being right nor wrong, and neither winning the argument.

Can make interesting reading at times though.

My reply containing 'alone' was not intended as a reply to your post that it followed.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 25-07-18, 09:36PM
 :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 25-07-18, 09:41PM
What location pay thought it was abolished same as our premiums are being abolished .
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 25-07-18, 10:02PM
Quote from: Nomad on 25-07-18, 06:29PM
So many times one hears the phrase from physical workers, "I work harder than you so should get paid more".

Reasoning by that criteria alone means teachers and a few others should be paid peanuts.

It also means that a Labourer would likely be the highest paid on a building site, but we know this not to be the case, but the labourer for a bricklayer is also handling the bricks and the Mortar the same as the bricklayer yet paid less.
Without going on and on, my scenario above brings my mind to skills payments, are they still present in retail? Does a Baker get more, is there such a position as a Pharmacy Assistant if so are they paid more?
How many skills payments are there?
Is there any disparity between rates in a metro compared to extras or expresses?
Holding such a simplistic view as equal value inherently will erode skill based payments and any other disparity there is.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 25-07-18, 11:01PM
Quote from: roughyedspud on 25-07-18, 03:51AM

DC staff pick stock,put it on a cage/dolly,take said cage/dolly to a area to be put on a wagon.

GA staff take the cage/dolly from a area after its been taken off a wagon,take the stock off the said cage/dolly and put it on the shelves...

Am I wrong?

Not wrong it just doesn't happen as simply as that, the expectation of how many times it happens is greater.
There is a diffinative set amount that has to be done if it isn't then the individual is heavily performances managed, this set amount is not a rough figure it is definitely set by % of standard time.
All staff have to do it when they are told to with no choice about multi skilling.
All staff are expected to work Sunday with no opt out.
All staff could have their hours changed with appropriate notice 12 weeks in my instance some may be different but most contracts facilitate a needs of the business rota change clause. The only exception is a formal flexible hours request which can only be done once a year.
When applying for a job the hours expected are fully dictated with no compromises.

Some may think the environment is not relevant to the task, and some see customer facing roles and customers as a risk, it has to be argued that working in an aisle with 6 other pickers picking on MHE trucks and 4 fork lifts doing putaways off the same bay to the same aisle is a greater risk, but hey at least they are all not walking they all have the luxery of ride on trucks, and haven't got to walk, they just got to get off the truck for every different product and then back on to move to the next expected to pick each case in the same amount of time as it takes the average person blow their nose or put a pallet away in the time takes the average person to clean their teeth, with pallets being put away or let down at heights of upto 45ft in the Air, with each new move or assignment automatically starting when the previous one is completed.

How do we establish the value whilst dismissing the skill and working environment, There is no coincidence in your contractual detail being described as "Terms and Conditions" they are an expectation that need an appropriate and realistic momentary gain, different T&Cs realise different monetary gains, Retail much like Distribution have differences in their own respective devisions of the company, how on earth is a comparison possible with two different devisions that both individually have disparity that has been established through decades of established accepted pay negations that have never ( to my knowledge) jointly or individually discussed the disparity between the two?


Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 25-07-18, 11:21PM
Quote from: Hammer10 on 25-07-18, 09:41PM
What location pay thought it was abolished same as our premiums are being abolished .

Sunday premiums being abolished ... why is that? because some bright spark decided that in simple terms Sunday is now no different than Monday or any other day , when we all know it clearly is and always will be while certain bankhols exist and are not merely luie days.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 25-07-18, 11:41PM
Quote from: Hammer10 on 25-07-18, 09:41PM
What location pay thought it was abolished same as our premiums are being abolished .

There is a thread where someone gives examples of Distribution rates in varying DC,s the higher rates being because of locatio, so although not detailed as such disparity of rates is often down to Geographical Location.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Mark calloway on 26-07-18, 09:30AM
What job do we do? I fill on nights.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: rogersmart on 26-07-18, 01:14PM
Instead of jumping through hoops in an attempt to find similarities between the roles in stores and in DCs, it is more appropriate to do what Duracell is saying, and step back and look objectively at the roles.  It's principally a matter of scale and employer requirements rather than simply a pick list of individual actions that sound the same.  A good comparison would be between an individual driving a Transit van and another driving an HGV artic.  Hey, they both turn steering wheels and operate foot pedals, so the jobs must be the same, mustn't they?  Well, no.  And no sane person would expect a two-a-penny Transit van driver to be paid the same rate as an HGV driver.  Would they?

I'm employed in a medium sized store that is literally three minutes drive from where I live.  I can get to work by bus if I want, or even walk (that takes a whole 15 minutes!).   During my 45 mins. break, I can pop into town and visit the chemist or whatever.  The nearest DC is 10 miles from home, in the middle of nowhere on a vast industrial estate, and without a bus service, and there is literally nowhere to go to within the duration of a break.  My convenience is worth a lot to me, and no one could be expected to work in a remotely located DC unless it was worth their while and unless they were being paid at a rate comparaable with the other distribution warehouses in the surrounding area. 

Wake up and smell the coffee, guys.  You're being led up the garden path by those promoting a No Win No Fee approach, that if nothing else is giving them one heck of a lot of totally free advertising.  It may be a "free bet" as I've seen it described on here, but having your expectations raised with little real chance of success is not doing you any favours at all.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Mark calloway on 26-07-18, 01:31PM
You make good points there. I'm in two minds about it. While I think those in distribution deserve a higher rate of pay,I'm still tempted to sign the form to claim. I not sure about the "sexist" claim of the lawsuit. Dare I say that most women don't want to work in distribution etc. Also at our store the ladies never work produce,juice or work the back door. By today's logic that's sexism
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 26-07-18, 07:45PM
This is the final email from Leigh day regarding the Age discrimination claim and it contains some detail regarding the current claim

Dear xxxx

Your Claim against Tesco for Loss of Premium (and Night) Pay & Age Discrimination

The time has come to formally close the files in respect of the above matter.

We investigated the detail of 2016 Pay Review, in particular the removal of Premium Pay for older employees. Our aim was twofold, 1) to show that the Partnership Agreement between Usdaw and Tesco would not lawfully permit an overall downward variation of pay and 2) that the loss of Premium Pay was discriminatory on the grounds of age.

Unfortunately and despite our best efforts the Tribunal found in favour of Tesco this time.

The Tribunal did find that the loss of pay was discriminatory on the grounds of age, but and importantly, they found that Tesco had legitimate aims in reducing pay in this way and that the route taken by them, ie the removal of Premium Pay, was a proportionate measure to take to secure that aim; meaning that Tesco could justify the discrimination. I know that this was a bitter blow to many of you, who have felt that your loyalty was sacrificed to make up for poor decision making at Board level.

Is there anything else I can do?

As many of you know we have started a second claim in respect of Equal Pay. We say that the work done in stores by hourly paid staff is of equal value to the work done by hourly paid staff in distribution centres and that it should be paid the same rate. We estimate that the average difference in pay between stores and distribution is around £2 per hour, not including the more advantageous Premium Pay.

We know that some Distribution Centres still pay their hourly paid staff Premium Pay (double pay) and we will be looking to recover that difference too.  We see joining the Equal Pay claim as the most viable route left to challenging Tesco on the removal of Premium Pay as well as ensuring that you are paid in accordance with the Equality Act 2010.

If you have joined the Equal Pay claim

Your details have been transferred to that file. It is only the loss of Premium Pay in Stores litigation which is being closed.

If you wish to join the Equal Pay claim please get in touch on 0800 689 0570 or via email at tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk

I will arrange to close and archive your file. We will hold your papers and corresponding electronic file in archival storage for a period of 6 years. During this time you can ask us to send you documents from the file without charge.  At the end of that period the file will be destroyed in accordance with usual practice.

I hope you have been satisfied with the work we have done on your case. I hope that despite losing you feel proud of yourself for taking a stand. It is not always easy. I know that investigating or pursuing a claim can be a difficult process. We hope in addition to providing you with the best possible legal advice we have made the process as easy for you as we can.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions or if I can ever be of any assistance to you in any way in the future.

Best wishes
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 26-07-18, 07:47PM
Latest update from Leigh Day to the staff involved in the current claim:

Dear xxxx

Tesco's defence to equal pay now received

We have now received and considered the defence from Tesco in respect of the equal pay claims that we are bringing for Store workers.

As we expected Tesco has denied having an equal pay problem.

Tesco has brought Usdaw's involvement in all pay negotiations into the spotlight by arguing that Usdaw negotiates pay in relation to the Stores and Distribution Centres separately and while this is true, it does not provide Tesco with a defence. It remains our view, supported by evidence, that Tesco is ultimately responsible for all pay decisions and that they have to power to resolve the issue, should they wish to do so. If Tesco wanted to equalise pay between Stores and Distribution Centres they could do so right now.   

What Tesco's defence does highlight is that Usdaw has some serious questions to answer about its role in the pay inequality. We will be taking steps to obtain information from Usdaw as well as Tesco around those pay negotiations.

Tesco also says that Store workers cannot compare themselves to Distribution Centre workers as different employment contractual terms apply to each. We remain satisfied that the appeal court decisions about comparisons in equal pay cases do allow Tesco Store workers to compare against Distribution Centres workers. 

Tesco go on to say, that even if you can lawfully compare your roles (and we say you can), that the work you do is not of 'equal value' to that undertaken in Distribution Centres. This is the heart of case and we are not surprised to see Tesco say as much. We fundamentally disagree with Tesco on this point. As we have said before, it is the Tribunal, assisted by Independent Experts, who ultimately decide whether the work is of 'equal value'. It is not up to Tesco to decide.

They also say that they have to pay Distribution Centre workers more in order to attract people to apply for that type of work. And as a final defence, they argue that lower wages in Stores keeps them more competitive in the supermarket industry. This is an interesting point by Tesco bearing in mind our research shows that Aldi and Lidl pay Store workers and Distribution Centre workers the same and they compete very well. 

Settlement
Rather than settling claims, which is common in group claims of this nature, Tesco's lawyers have indicated to us that they are waiting for changes to the law to prevent employees from claiming as much as 6 years of back pay (5 years in Scotland) in an equal pay claim. The principle of Equal Pay in this country has been driven by the European Union and we think this is wishful thinking on their part whilst European Union law continues to apply. With Brexit increasingly closer, there is always a possibility that future governments might seek to reduce the amount of back pay that those with an equal pay claim can ask for, but this will not affect any claims that are brought before then. So your claims for a maximum of 6 years (5 years in Scotland) worth of back pay are safe.

In all, there is nothing of any concern in the defence raised by Tesco and it was exactly what we expected.


Yours sincerely
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: sensible_woman on 26-07-18, 08:30PM
LOL so despite USDAW backing Tescos on every decision on pay to screw us GAs over they are now laying the blame for this one at USDAW's feet.  You couldn't make it up!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 26-07-18, 08:43PM
Quote from: Duracell on 25-07-18, 09:32PM
Lots of text, post number 575 if you want to read it in its entirety

Much of that has nothing to do with the claim that working for the same company we as its employees are doing much the same job as each other or rather mirror images of the same job.

Your opening statement talks about kitchen porters and canteen staff and how their jobs are different....You fail to mention they do not work for Tesco either and it seems to have slid by you that they are not retail workers. Much as you hate to admit it you work in retail, thats what Tesco is a retailer so sorry to burst your self important little bubble you are no better than those of us who work on the front line.  You job is getting merchandise ready for your customers needs (thats us by the way) same way ours is. To facilitate that you place said merchandise onto a cage and send it along to us so we can take it off the cage and then place it onto shelves so our customers can get want they want.

I'm not seeing the difference yet?

I will concede that the lorry drivers are different to us and leave them out of it but you are not one of those are you?

You then talk about legal obligations? Are you trying to tell us that you get more because its mandated by law, I mean come on............

Oh and whats the analogy about apples and oranges for it doesnt really apply here.


You lob about the word simplistic like its a swear word and yet non of your arguments even now address the core issue, which is we believe that your job is worth the same as ours and we are paid less because of antiquated sexual bias where by shop assistants historical are jobs filled by women who were (and sometimes still are) paid less simply by virtue of being the wrong gender.  Now  you may say 'but gimpy you're a man'? I know I am a man but we are suffering because of the disparity as well.

This is a good one, You say
QuotePay is not about the simplistic task, even if you could establish the value of any given task or group of tasks by breaking cost and need down to an individual level you still can't set the rates by that alone because if you dismiss the market rates and industry trends then you ultimately start to erode locational differences. Because the simplistic view that sees pushing a cage as pushing a cage doesn't care weather that cage is being pushed in London or Skegness, the simplistic view will remove all of the justified extras for the yeah buts, which is what market rates and industry standards take into account.

So tell me location lets take that, Why does it matter to you when the DC is located other than you work there and probably would like a reasonable travel time to and from work, What is it about location that you think means you are worth more than me? As for market forces......blimey Tesco fix your rate the same as they do ours nothing to do with market forces thats why every DC seems to negotiate their own wage rise. If they cant get staff for whatever reason then they look at location pay, not something I agree with but thats another debate also location pay is not part of your hourly pay its a premium that can be removed at will.


QuoteSuch an erroneous claim would not only be the biggest unjust demand this company has ever seen it will also cause major problems for Employment in general. Who is paying for the 300 million for the accounting scandal and that was justified where do you think the cost of the claim will fall win or Lose.

Surely you are not suggesting we are to blame for the 300 million face accounting scandal? I mean what on earth has corrupt directors got to do with our jobs essentially being the same and therefore worth the same? Or are you saying we shouldnt get the verdict we all know is correct because it cost to much so we should just let you get away with earning more than us because..... well just because really.

I also notice you are talking about all other forms of employment, You really are a throwback I genuinely believe you think women should be paid less than men or why else would you worry about the ramifications to every other employer in the UK or were you talking worldwide.

Lastly to this little gem.....

QuoteThe good reason for the disparity in rates in different markets and decisions with different demands, hear is just one consideration Retail has a SUNDAY opt out if they want people in they have to compensate for facilitating Sunday trading with overtime as it seems you could in theory all say no. Distribution have no choice.
So in the name of equal value and equality whilst we are simplisticly standing on the thin end of the wedge, Should the Sunday opt out be abolished along with Location Pay? Because that is what a simplistic view dismisses.

Now you are saying we should not get equal pay because some people who decided supermarkets can open on a sunday so long as they allow workers to opt out but they didnt include Dcs in that and if they want people to work a sunday they have to pay overtime......So you dont get an overtime rate then? No neither do we its flat time now for overtime has been for years they call what they give a premium which is 25% of your hourly rate extra and no doubt that will go next year in the so called pay review.. Whats your overtime rates or would you rather not say......

Edit: Forgot to mention the extra premium is only for a sunday we get nothing extra for working overtime on any other day of the week, can you say the same?

You seem to be quite put out about the sunday thing so here is a bit of advice, Do something about it, stop moaning and get in touch with your mates and start making noises you know like is happening with the equal pay or do you expect Tesco to suddenly sit down and say ' Tarquin old bean lets give those jolly nice chaps at the DCs the right to opt out of sunday working, we were forced into it for the shop workers  but we will just hand it to the DC workers on a plate because they cant be bothered to do anything other than chunter under their breath at the unfainess of it all'




Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: sensible_woman on 26-07-18, 08:50PM
Surely - if distributors don't do their job the customers don't get the goods. If GAs don't put it on the shelf the customers don't get the goods. I'd say that is of equal value. Simplistic enough?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 26-07-18, 08:53PM
person A puts box on cage, cage is transported to different location and person B takes box off cage and places on shelf.

Same job mirrored....

Unless you work in a DC then it isnt because I suspect they have very high opinions of themselves and do not want to be lumped in with us in shops.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OvaSees on 26-07-18, 09:52PM
Quote from: forrestgimp on 26-07-18, 08:43PMwe are paid less because of antiquated sexual bias where by shop assistants historical are jobs filled by women who were (and sometimes still are) paid less simply by virtue of being the wrong gender.
I totally agree with everything you said - and I support the case of equal pay for jobs of euqal value - but this bit is just plain wrong. There is no 'antiquated sexual bias', historical or otherwise, between recruitment policies in distribution and stores - there have always been women working in distribution and men working in stores. The gender ratios varying between those functions is not evidence of any bias or discrimination, it merely demonstrates that men and women have made different choices in their work function or location. The HR/Personnel function in both distribution and stores has always and continues to be dominated by females, in a company that employs more females than males and in which the most senior HR/Personnel roles - which define and determine those recruitment policies - have always been held by females. A company cannot discriminate, that requires a person to enact - but the HR policies and procedures have been written by women, and agreed by Unions including USDAW whose National Officers are both women. All this in a country in which discrimination based on gender is illegal and has had a female Prime Minister running it for half my life. There has never been a cry of bias or discrimination over the fact that we have never had a male HR Director and that role attracts a lot more money than any picker or shelf filler. If women wanted to flood distribution (or any area of the company for that matter) to earn more money there's nothing stopping them.

If on the other hand you are implying some kind of institutionalised discriminatory mechanism against women in this company's distribution employment practices, then you also have to justify two things - (i) why that same bias doesn't simultaneously exist in it's HR function - that's run by women, and (ii) if women are cheaper to employ than men, then given this company's obsession with cost cutting why hasn't it just stopped recruiting men and filled every single job with these lower paid women?

If you are paying people for their work, instead of just paying them what they think they're worth (which is what the case is about), then clearly these people wouldn't be working in a store if distribution thinks their work is worth more than what stores are paying - they'd go and work in distribution. But they choose not to.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 26-07-18, 11:14PM
Quote from: forrestgimp on 26-07-18, 08:53PM
person A puts box on cage, cage is transported to different location and person B takes box off cage and places on shelf.

Same job mirrored....

Unless you work in a DC then it isn't because I suspect they have very high opinions of themselves and do not want to be lumped in with us in shops.

Like I said a very Simplistic view.

You seem a bit naive as to how rates are established and why they have to be competitive to attract and retain skilled staff.

Your earlier response missed all of the points that makes the roles so different, can't debate the differences whilst all the time asking what they are, to then totally dream up my attitude, I am far from sexiest. I welcome seeing any Gender in any job and openly encourage it where I work, but we all know the claim isn't really about Gender that's just the engine they hooked up to get the Gravy train moving cause without it, the equal value debate goes nowhere.

Your mentality that because we all work for T we are all somehow retailers shows yours your naivety, Priceless.


PS

OT
X1.5 Monday-Sat
X2 Sun

No not a driver... to monotonous for me. Although I'd give dot com a go if I'm Honest, I loved doing multi drop when I was younger, so who knows when they come at me for the perks above anything is possible.



Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OvaSees on 27-07-18, 06:01AM
^ absolutely. The case is about unfair pay practices, a principle I'm sure we all support, it just initially masqueraded as a gender case in order to get heard and see the light of day.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 27-07-18, 12:37PM
I am unable to post in the Equal value to the company thread.
I'd like to get one thing clear, I am all for any relative comparisons but comparisons are not just about given tasks being similar, other aspects come into consideration, environment, workload, geographical locations, contractual expectations and obligations.
I feel because of the Sterotype being attached to the claim a lot of the genuine reasoning from both perspectives may get lost and not debated because the Claim is ultimately about Gender Discrimination, my view is although there is scope from what has been discussed to compare roles to assertian Equal Value, which will be a mamouth task if done correctly any findings may get lost in a claim who's prime focus will be about gender discrimination. Even after a finding of equal value, the claim is reliant on a finding that the disparity on the whole is because of Gender.
The understanding that in the past some cases of gender discrimination claims have been successful because "Historically" certain Work is done by females and other work is done by males so either being paid less is a deliberate action to discriminate is in the modern world  wearing a bit thin and a relatively (to the times we live in) weak argument or stance to take.

Hystoriclly in the past catering and cleaning have seen prodominatly by women in those role, yet some of us see as many males in the roles as females and sometimes more so the "Historical" comparison although valid in the past are not apt for present day.
Where I work in catering and cleaning roles there are similar gender based numbers which lean towards Males being higher.
I currently see in T greater Numbers of Males Doing GA roles than before so, the "Historical" stance is not a true reflection of the times, Yes Historically Males went to work in industry and Manual Work and women went to Work in the services industry retail catering and cleaning services, but that is not the Norm anymore.
Industry has suffered drastically over the years which had seen young males going into the roles that were historically filled by females.

No doubt some of you think I live in my own little world ( i'll Get that in before someone else does), but where I am and the places I visit see males and females working side by side, the Historically gender dominated areas of employment are just not there anymore.

So the Historical balance of probability is weak, the intent to deprive an equal wage is even weaker, the nature of the claim will ultimately address those points and those points will have to be shown to be in practice now for the claim to be successful, even if a comparison falls firmly or loosely in the claims favour the claim relies on the "Historical" to also be current and the intent to deprive equality being shown.

I feel the "equal value" debate whether credible or not will get lost in the foundation of the claim, I feel that such a foundation in its own reasoning in this day and age clings to a behaviour and mentality and is dragging into an age where it has no place.

A discriminative Reasoning trying to Prove discrimination, 2 wrongs does not equal Right.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 27-07-18, 01:47PM
I think that most people agree this is not a sex discrimination case , even those that have signed up and although I do think that the jobs are of equal value to the company ,vi don't believe the case will be won .
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: grim up north on 27-07-18, 03:55PM
If the case is thrown out, there could always be a claim of racial discrimination, as my DC is staffed by around 80% Eastern European workers. Probably a higher percentage than at store, so why should foreigners get more pay......?? Leigh Day could always try that avenue.....
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: fatboy on 27-07-18, 04:04PM
Clutching at straws springs to mind
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 27-07-18, 04:10PM
Quote from: Duracell on 26-07-18, 11:14PM
Quote from: forrestgimp on 26-07-18, 08:53PM
person A puts box on cage, cage is transported to different location and person B takes box off cage and places on shelf.

Same job mirrored....

Unless you work in a DC then it isn't because I suspect they have very high opinions of themselves and do not want to be lumped in with us in shops.

Like I said a very Simplistic view.

You seem a bit naive as to how rates are established and why they have to be competitive to attract and retain skilled staff.



PS

OT
X1.5 Monday-Sat
X2 Sun

No not a driver... to monotonous for me. Although I'd give dot com a go if I'm Honest, I loved doing multi drop when I was younger, so who knows when they come at me for the perks above anything is possible.

Skilled job? name the skills that make you worth more than me?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Blodwyn on 27-07-18, 05:40PM
Judging by the state of the cages that come in to our store there are no skills. Light goods at the bottom, heavy on top and we have to use our "skills" to sort out the mess.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 27-07-18, 06:34PM
Forest I never said I am more Skilled than you and I never said I am worth more than you.

The skill I refer for example is Forklift Driving most warehouse have to and need a very good reason to abstain, which includes what I posted before about different legal demands on the Different areas of the business, that you somehow turned into me saying T are legislated to pay more to Distribution workers.
The Skill of Forklift Work whether T inherit it or train it is crucial to Distribution being as efficient as possible, some sites are struggling for that skill at great cost. It's is not a skill to be taken lightly most people who work in Distribution know what I mean, Distribution has to retain such skill and it has evolved to Be reliant on a very Multi Skilled workforce.
Furthermore forklift driving in such a large warehouse environment is not for the faint hearted, it's like a giant ants nest of organised chaos.

If you are not able to appreciate that aspect and all it entails then I have to ask about what skills payments and grades are all about in Retail. Surely if Skill is Endorsed from within your own sector how is it so wrong to endorse in another. Surely an equal value claim should start with your own singular environment.

Or are you saying it's OK for Retail to reward for Skills and Knowledge but not Distribution?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: toscozombie on 27-07-18, 07:51PM
Quote from: carlh on 26-07-18, 01:31PM
You make good points there. I'm in two minds about it. While I think those in distribution deserve a higher rate of pay,I'm still tempted to sign the form to claim. I not sure about the "sexist" claim of the lawsuit. Dare I say that most women don't want to work in distribution etc. Also at our store the ladies never work produce,juice or work the back door. By today's logic that's sexism

Well as a man I must stand up and defend the women in our store who do back door, juice,  produce, cheese and butter ...the women are pulling cages off lorries, presorting  filling then pulling cages back into said chiller to then off load stock not need onto  back stock cages . To be fair like you I don't think it's wether you are a woman or a man the point is we all have jobs that come with different kinds of  responsiblity and skill in  one or way or the other. For example  on nights when it is expected you work all the delivery no matter how much comes in or how much has not been worked during the day so there is availability for customers and dot com . Also we have the task of checking dates on fresh and checking labels are legal , of which, if they aren't the company can get into a lot of trouble .
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OvaSees on 27-07-18, 08:36PM
Quote from: Blodwyn on 27-07-18, 05:40PM
Judging by the state of the cages that come in to our store there are no skills. Light goods at the bottom, heavy on top and we have to use our "skills" to sort out the mess.
Hahahaha very difficult to argue with that!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: mexicopete on 27-07-18, 11:08PM
Quote from: toscozombie on 27-07-18, 07:51PM
Quote from: carlh on 26-07-18, 01:31PM
You make good points there. I'm in two minds about it. While I think those in distribution deserve a higher rate of pay,I'm still tempted to sign the form to claim. I not sure about the "sexist" claim of the lawsuit. Dare I say that most women don't want to work in distribution etc. Also at our store the ladies never work produce,juice or work the back door. By today's logic that's sexism

Well as a man I must stand up and defend the women in our store who do back door, juice,  produce, cheese and butter ...the women are pulling cages off lorries, presorting  filling then pulling cages back into said chiller to then off load stock not need onto  back stock cages . To be fair like you I don't think it's wether you are a woman or a man the point is we all have jobs that come with different kinds of  responsiblity and skill in  one or way or the other. For example  on nights when it is expected you work all the delivery no matter how much comes in or how much has not been worked during the day so there is availability for customers and dot com . Also we have the task of checking dates on fresh and checking labels are legal , of which, if they aren't the company can get into a lot of trouble .
Great post it's the same in my store. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: rayinski on 28-07-18, 12:06AM
I can honestly say that I'm very apprehensive about joining this action, especially as I've had some fantastic support from colleagues, team leaders, managers and even store managers.

However, now that the company has shafted me with my pay, I have decided to join the case against those that make the decisions that affect me and those around me.

They're hitting me in the pocket and as the bean counters only understand the bottom line, then that's where I want to hurt them.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Mark calloway on 05-08-18, 07:53PM
I've got the forms next to me. Not sure if I understand most of it. Is it as simple as if we win,we get compo. If we lose, nothing happens?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 05-08-18, 08:30PM
Yes thats the right thinking.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Mark calloway on 27-09-18, 07:38PM
My form says I need employee number national insurance number,etc. Do I need to write it down or will they just accept my wage slip and my contract because it's all in there.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 27-09-18, 08:26PM
I just send replay (email) with all details.
I think i sent 2 emails. In one i sent picture of my current contract. Then i received email to confirm all details, NI, emplyee number etc.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Mark calloway on 04-10-18, 08:15PM
I've just looked at my contract that I got from wages and it says the information  given is correct as at 01/07/2018. Well,I haven't seen this contract before,I haven't signed one for at least a couple of years. Was I meant to have been given this in July to sign?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 24-10-18, 03:30PM
Apparently Leigh-Day want 25% of any final settlement/compensation received.

Any reason why any individual shouldn't just watch what happens and if the case is successful (I know it's a long shot) then bring their own personal claim? The precedent would already be set, so why give up 25% of what could be a sizeable sum for some people? Did I read Tesco were hoping to get a law change or something? Tempted to go with Leigh-Day but don't want to do it if I'd be potentially throwing money away if the unthinkable happened and Tesco actually lost the case.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 24-10-18, 04:42PM
I signed up if we win yes they get 25% but I have not got the money to challenge Tesco.You only get something if you sign up for it there are about 8000 people now challenging it.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 24-10-18, 05:04PM
But if they won the case and set the precedent, wouldn't a letter to Tesco from an employee stating their intent to sue them for loss of earnings just prompt them to pay out anyway, as the precedent would have been set that they had been underpaying and so would automatically lose any further cases brought to court? Not arguing with you personally, just talking hytpothetically as I'm far from an expert myself! :)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: chris9997 on 25-10-18, 03:10AM
Quote from: BarryZola on 24-10-18, 03:30PM
Apparently Leigh-Day want 25% of any final settlement/compensation received.

Any reason why any individual shouldn't just watch what happens and if the case is successful (I know it's a long shot) then bring their own personal claim? The precedent would already be set, so why give up 25% of what could be a sizeable sum for some people? Did I read Tesco were hoping to get a law change or something? Tempted to go with Leigh-Day but don't want to do it if I'd be potentially throwing money away if the unthinkable happened and Tesco actually lost the case.
I think somewhere there was a piece about back pay for underpayment being scaled back from 6 years to 2 I tnihk in 2020/21 and it was recouned supermarket's were hopefully dragging out for this
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 25-10-18, 07:46AM
Yes back pay for 6 years if you sign up now but if law changes then probably only 2 years of back pay.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 25-10-18, 07:48AM
Cheers. Think I'll sign up then. Add my name to the other thousands :)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: roughyedspud on 07-11-18, 08:08PM
Does anyone have a list of the hourly rate since 2012?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 08-11-18, 10:33AM
https://www.wigantoday.net/news/tesco-staff-from-wigan-could-be-entitled-to-equal-pay-claim-1-9430047 (https://www.wigantoday.net/news/tesco-staff-from-wigan-could-be-entitled-to-equal-pay-claim-1-9430047)

QuoteDamon Parker, a partner in law firm Harcus Sinclair UK Ltd, which is leading the action, urged people to join the claim.

Is this the same claim ?

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 08-11-18, 11:18AM
Same claim different solicitors
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 08-11-18, 11:26AM
And that's a big problem. Its better to have one law firm. The more people under one company the lower the costs. Leigh day clearly state that the more people join the less we pay if claim is successful.

Last week they sent an email saying that now in November there will be hearing in court for 1400 people and cost still remains at 25% of any compensation.

Asda's appeal should be sorted in spring.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 08-11-18, 08:12PM
I think it will snowball now that a few different firms have cottoned on to this, and the competition between them will make for more wide-spread publicity in the medium term.
This could turn into the next PPI. And about time too.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 09-11-18, 11:04AM
I think the sexist claim is a non starter to be honest. In distribution all roles are offered regardless of gender. My DC have hundreds of women all doing the same work as men.
The fact of the matter is DC work is a lot harder due to many reasons. Too many to go into. That's why virtually every DC in country have many many vacancies. Some DC's hundreds of vacancies. Stores however have virtually done. The pay is often greater due to supply and demand of Labour. Not skills
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Classy Bird on 09-11-18, 12:21PM
Where do you sign up?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Red75 on 09-11-18, 03:50PM
Quote from: Retrokid on 09-11-18, 11:04AM
I think the sexist claim is a non starter to be honest. In distribution all roles are offered regardless of gender. My DC have hundreds of women all doing the same work as men.
The fact of the matter is DC work is a lot harder due to many reasons. Too many to go into. That's why virtually every DC in country have many many vacancies. Some DC's hundreds of vacancies. Stores however have virtually done. The pay is often greater due to supply and demand of Labour. Not skills

I can assure you that taking the stock of those cages that you pack and putting it on the shelves is similarly hard. Do you not think that the person who puts out those cages of tins or jars that you assemble isn't working hard and isn't under some of the same pressures that you are?  Maybe you should have some consideration for the people who are working those cages. Honestly, look at some of those cages that leave the distribution centre and tell me that putting that on the shelves doesn't look like hard work. There is a belief that some jobs in the economy, jobs predominantly but not exclusively, performed by women are undervalued. Are those staff serving customers on checkouts, putting labels on shelves, serving our customers, filling shelves of any less value to the company?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 12-11-18, 01:09PM
Are the roles of equal value?
Equal value to who?

"Equal value to the company" (you say).....

So a court can't decide, the company has to, so are the rates an indication that the company already recognise the value of the varying roles, because of the difference between them?
Only the company can decide the "value to the company", it can't be dictated, it is realised by many factors some of which are unique to the individual company.



You can't ask an individual or a group what they value, and then tell them they are wrong. Equal value to the company can't be decided by anyone other than the company.

Of Equal Value is more debatable but it raises questions like

To who?
By what measure?

Without those questions you can't establish the values let alone realise if they are equal.
The realisation of "Value to Who" .. restricts who can decide what is equal.
Imagine me trying to say to you what the value of each company benefit should be to you.... it's got no legs has it!! let alone must be of equal value to you because they are Broadly Titled "A Company Benefit".


Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 12-11-18, 09:17PM
Just to be clear, this is a thread in the 'stores' forum, just in case that matters. Just thought I'd let you know. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 12-11-18, 11:18PM
https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/News-2018/October-2018/Supermarket-equal-pay-battle-goes-to-the-Court-of (https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/News-2018/October-2018/Supermarket-equal-pay-battle-goes-to-the-Court-of)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 13-11-18, 09:02AM
Quote from: optout on 12-11-18, 09:17PM
Just to be clear, this is a thread in the 'stores' forum, just in case that matters. Just thought I'd let you know. :thumbup:


Thanks for the heads up  :thumbup: 
Whilst stating the obvious seems oppropriate, the stores "Forum" is part of the Bigger site I am a supporter of and as such, I can post to any of the sections within it that are open to me, unless the site owner Or moderators say otherwise.

Where there is discussion about something I am part of I sometimes feel it appropriate to comment.

"The Claim" and opinions of it aren't exclusive to Stores, without the inclusion of DC there is no claim, the inclusion of DC warrants opinion from that area. Where DC's are mentioned in any thread, if I feel a need to respond to a particular comment I will.

Just in case that matters too  :thumbup:

I'm more than happy to discuss the fundamentals of the Topic Title rather than posting the obvious though.

So shall we get back to the topic discussion and debate?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 13-11-18, 06:58PM
glad I could be of help :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welsh-Hugh on 14-11-18, 01:38PM
https://www.wigantoday.net/news/hearing-takes-place-into-tesco-equal-pay-claim-1-9441665 (https://www.wigantoday.net/news/hearing-takes-place-into-tesco-equal-pay-claim-1-9441665)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: panther on 14-11-18, 10:56PM
Quote from: exmember on 14-11-18, 01:38PM
https://www.wigantoday.net/news/hearing-takes-place-into-tesco-equal-pay-claim-1-9441665 (https://www.wigantoday.net/news/hearing-takes-place-into-tesco-equal-pay-claim-1-9441665)

That's not Leigh Day tho? Harcus Sinclair UK Ltd,


I think the whole thing is awful, DC workers deserve the pay they get. I stand by that, and I work instore. And even more so if you're a woman in DC. I've seen posts on here complaining about pick rate in .com. Try being in a depot!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 15-11-18, 12:25AM
as a male from stores, I am disgusted about the disparity in pay for the shop workers.
I think it is strange that tesco will talk to a newspaper but not its own staff about this issue. It all smacks of damage limitation (a bit too late) to me. If tesco has what it believes to be valid reasons for the disparity why hasn't it given those reasons officially to its employees????
And even worse, why hasn't usdaw expected an explanation on its members behalf????
ABSOLUTE DISGRACE
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: cityboy on 15-11-18, 06:31AM
Optout, simmer down. As a WORKER from stores, I too disagree with the disparity in pay, and Usdaw's indifference, but D.C., workers deserve what they get or more. Anyone in stores who is subjected to the same regime of working to silly percentages, deserves similar wages and bonus for reaching such silly targets. But this is the start of Tesco employing machines, your value to the company has a percentage value rather than a human experience value. Although I don't work  to percentages, 2 of us are still expected to do the work that 3 did and vilified if it is not done, (it goes over my head), the point being you are not now seen as a person, but a percentage. Thanks, Dave Lewis.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: tescopleb on 15-11-18, 10:29AM
Yes the Dc workers  deserve what get they get but this is to recognise that store staff do a job of equal worth. Are the potential consequences of not following Think 25, the many Food & Hygiene Regulations, right down to selling out of date food and not dealing with spillages properly, not severe enough to warrant equal pay? It might not be heavy, but that doesn't mean its not of equal worth to the company. Ask yourself why Tosco pay lip service to training store staff?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 15-11-18, 11:07AM
Quote from: optout on 15-11-18, 12:25AM
If tesco has what it believes to be valid reasons for the disparity why hasn't it given those reasons officially to its employees????
And even worse, why hasn't usdaw expected an explanation on its members behalf????
ABSOLUTE DISGRACE

Outstanding fair play!

Union members and workers in general have never tried to address the disparity through the correct process for contractual consultations over pay rates, yet you demand answers officially, in simple terms the process needs to see the questions asked before answers can be given, but workers have chosen to overlook the correct process and go straight to litigation, the company will likely only respond now via the preferred method of correspondence invoked by the workers.

The concern and complaint about disparity has never been raised within the partnership or its processes, because it wasn't worthy of such a complex issue? yet you are asking the overlooked "system" to give answers to these same complex issues.

I won't mention how the above illustrates clear difference between the ASDA case and Others.

Seems like inconsistent Non-Sense.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 15-11-18, 10:58PM
Talk about inconsistency, on this thread (Reply #91 on: 04-09-17, 09:19PM)

You state

"Foolish propaganda is all that this thread has become, I suspect someone is overly bitter, the clue being in the profile name."(my highlighting)

You later go on to say (in the same post).

"And before someone calls me jack and says I'm alright, I have records and instances where Distribution have been butt f***ed with a red hot poker that spans 20 years.. where we received  little if any sympathy or support from retail."

Bitter much??????? Is this your payback time???????

I think we now get to the root of some peoples motivations.
Seems like inconsistent nonsense to me.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 15-11-18, 11:29PM
Your second highlight of my words are if quoted correctly illustrating to another how inconsistent their mentality is in seeking support from some who are some how selfish when they refuse but that type of support asked seemed not to be bidirectional in the past , as for being bitter about the support is indeed not bidirectional, absolutely not because to be bitter I would have had to expect that support and then be disappointed it failed to transpire, I am no fool, I didn't expect it, so wasn't disapointed and therefore not bitter at all.

So not inconsistent either.

:thumbup:

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 16-11-18, 12:02AM
..keh..?
Could you explain that again, (imagine I am a 5 year old)?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 16-11-18, 07:27AM
Quote from: panther on 14-11-18, 10:56PM
Quote from: exmember on 14-11-18, 01:38PM
https://www.wigantoday.net/news/hearing-takes-place-into-tesco-equal-pay-claim-1-9441665 (https://www.wigantoday.net/news/hearing-takes-place-into-tesco-equal-pay-claim-1-9441665)

That's not Leigh Day tho? Harcus Sinclair UK Ltd,


I think the whole thing is awful, DC workers deserve the pay they get. I stand by that, and I work instore. And even more so if you're a woman in DC. I've seen posts on here complaining about pick rate in .com. Try being in a depot!

The problem is that system implemented in tesco isnt perfect. Worker in DC whos job is to load wagon (nothing else) is being paid let say £12p/h and then there is worker in store warehouse who is unloading same wagon and is being paid £8.16p/h. Its simpliest example. Then it comes another problem that in a diferent DC another person is earning £10p/h for same job..... and go on
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 16-11-18, 09:12AM
That's the thing... there is no worker in DC who just loads trailers and nothing else, the warehouse person has to be multi skilled.

You mention varying rates with different DC's, what about the Varying within stores, and also Jacks £9+ per hour for essentially same retail work under the same management structure? Are these disparities not an issue?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 16-11-18, 01:27PM
Oh yes other disparities are problem aswell. I already wrote about that elsewhere in the past.
The truth is that i see the "claim" not as oportunity to get more beacuse someone else in earning more but as a wake up call for Tesco to revise pay structure across the whole company.
I do not belive that checkout worker deserve to earn £12p/h like dc staff in example above but member of replenishement should have more than £8.16p/h.
Its dificult subject. No easy answer/solution but tesco got time and resource to trully build better system.

A word to example i gave earlier with loading/ unloading.
I choose it for a reason without mentioning any other tasks carried out by dc or instore worker.
What i understand the reason why ASDA lost their case is that solicitors more likely used similar basic comparison to prove their rights. So similar arguments could be used against Tesco.
Step by step, task after task. Etc
I bet many people think that if Tesco or any other retailer who loose the case then the pay will be equalized to match the highest earner. I doubt it. It would be court who will say how much its gonna be. It might be just extra 30p for every hour worked in last 6 years but not £3 like some might hope for.

Well thats my thoughts.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Classy Bird on 16-11-18, 01:35PM
Tesco include things like discounts and benefits and claim it is equal to being paid more an hour than the actual hourly rate. (in stores, can't speak for Dc)

Jack's get £9 as they don't get the offers, discount etc or so they say.

So I can't see tesco stores hrly rate being matched to Jack's
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 20-11-18, 05:54PM
https://www.equalpaynow.co.uk/tesco-signup/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=SS+-+Equal+Pay+-+Tesco+-+Remarketing&utm_content=Tesco+Landing+Page+-+30+days&fbclid=IwAR2yFRWy0l-WfR9mQVrEGo8fbrLl2SOT9BT1aW8ZIfD0o4kRtYx0XYnyHZ0 (https://www.equalpaynow.co.uk/tesco-signup/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=SS+-+Equal+Pay+-+Tesco+-+Remarketing&utm_content=Tesco+Landing+Page+-+30+days&fbclid=IwAR2yFRWy0l-WfR9mQVrEGo8fbrLl2SOT9BT1aW8ZIfD0o4kRtYx0XYnyHZ0)

Need more people. They now advertise on Facebook aswell.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: chris9997 on 21-11-18, 12:05PM
Looking at a video Q&A from Leigh day regarding the Asda case and one of the questions goes a little like this:

"If I don't sign up to the case do I still benefit" the answer according to them is "if the case is won and back pay is awarded only the claimants will be entitled to back pay although all will likely get the pay rise"
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lucgeo on 21-11-18, 03:35PM
Can't see how they can differentiate  ??? If the courts rule that case is founded, and award the backpay, then to only pay the ones who claimed would be discriminatory surely?

How many cases are won on citing past cases and rulings, so to make an award, ASDA would then be inundated by other employees claiming their backpay  ???
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 21-11-18, 07:55PM
That's how system works.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: madness on 21-11-18, 08:49PM
Quote from: tescopleb on 15-11-18, 10:29AM
Yes the Dc workers  deserve what get they get but this is to recognise that store staff do a job of equal worth. Are the potential consequences of not following Think 25, the many Food & Hygiene Regulations, right down to selling out of date food and not dealing with spillages properly, not severe enough to warrant equal pay? It might not be heavy, but that doesn't mean its not of equal worth to the company. Ask yourself why Tosco pay lip service to training store staff?
Don't like your pay go out and get a job that pays a value you put on your time and skills/ability. Fact of the matter is retail is bottom of the barrel job with too many here thinking just because they do it and fancy a pay rise for nothing they are deserving of it. Think managers are overpaid for doing no work, great become a manager yourself if it is so easy and of little value and ride that nice easy life for a big fat paycheck.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: tescopleb on 21-11-18, 11:08PM
Oh dear, oh dear with an attitude like this I'm surprised we aren't paying tosco for the privilege of working for them. Who rattled your cage?  Is that the best you can do? A pay rise for doing nothing doesn't mean tosco and their like haven't been undervaluing the contribution made by store staff for their own ends.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 22-11-18, 06:14PM
Quote from: Duracell on 16-11-18, 09:12AM


You mention varying rates with different DC's, what about the Varying within stores, and also Jacks £9+ per hour for essentially same retail work under the same management structure? Are these disparities not an issue?

Yes they are, However the present case is not about that but I would not rule out something in the future, its easier to go after DCs because we are all Tesco employees and well we know what the argument is where as Jacks is supposed to be a separate company (lmao yea right)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 22-11-18, 07:38PM
The present case is not the Asda case either! yet some think it's relevant.

As for Jacks being a separate company, not according to companies house it isn't.
So why not address the disparity, I think we all know why that won't happen, which then lands the equal value claims flat on the floor.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 22-11-18, 09:53PM
After reading all of the advice on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that the legal 'experts' that have taken on the cases of thousands of people, must be absolutely thick.

I think that all that they needed to do was read this thread, and they would then realize what a massive waste of time it all is.

So all of you very silly legal experts who are representing tesco employees, who think that tesco shop-floor workers have a hope in hell of winning this claim, just read this thread and you will be enlightened. ;)

How silly for them not to pay attention to the advice and reasoning on this thread. That is like searching for a monster in your bedroom at night, but not  bothering to check under the bed. (clue, they are always under the bed). ;)

These high priced lawyers have really dropped a clanger with this one. ;)

Just sayin
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: madness on 23-11-18, 12:08AM
Lawyers get paid either way they don't care about outcome.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 23-11-18, 05:06AM
You mock people because they have the audacity to debate a subject important to them on an open forum, because apparently having legal representation == valid case, and people are clearly morons for daring to question it.

Quote from: optout on 22-11-18, 09:53PM
After reading all of the advice on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that the legal 'experts' that have taken on the case of Tesco, must be absolutely thick.

I think that all that they needed to do was read this thread, and they would then realize what a massive waste of time it all is.

So all of you very silly legal experts who are representing Tesco, who think that Tesco have a hope in hell of winning this claim, just read this thread and you will be enlightened. ;)

How silly for them not to pay attention to the advice and reasoning on this thread. That is like searching for a monster in your bedroom at night, but not  bothering to check under the bed. (clue, they are always under the bed). ;)

These high priced lawyers have really dropped a clanger with this one. ;)

Just sayin


Well s*** tier logic goes both ways.

Why bother to fight for this case or even debate it, when Tesco have much better legal 'experts' than Leigh day.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 24-11-18, 05:31PM
Quote from: optout on 22-11-18, 09:53PM
After reading all of the advice on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that the legal 'experts' that have taken on the cases of thousands of people, must be absolutely thick.

I think that all that they needed to do was read this thread, and they would then realize what a massive waste of time it all is.

So all of you very silly legal experts who are representing tesco employees, who think that tesco shop-floor workers have a hope in hell of winning this claim, just read this thread and you will be enlightened. ;)

How silly for them not to pay attention to the advice and reasoning on this thread. That is like searching for a monster in your bedroom at night, but not  bothering to check under the bed. (clue, they are always under the bed). ;)

These high priced lawyers have really dropped a clanger with this one. ;)

Just sayin

Debate is healthy and its a sad day when we are stopped from having different opinions.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 27-11-18, 08:10AM
There will hardly be any staff in DC's to compare with come April anyway, some of them are short staffed by at least a hundred people.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 31-01-19, 11:48AM
The Court of Appeal has ruled that Asda store staff can compare their roles with those in the supermarket giant's distribution centres in equal pay claims 
31 January 2019

The Court of Appeal has this morning (31 January 2019) upheld the ruling that Asda store staff can compare their roles with those in the supermarket giant's distribution centres in legal claims over equal pay.


https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/2019/January-2019/Court-of-Appeal-rules-Asda-store-workers-can-compa (https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/2019/January-2019/Court-of-Appeal-rules-Asda-store-workers-can-compa)

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Yes, a fair way to go yet  :)

Good time to bring this to the attention of the 'extra footfall' here.

Leigh Day is currently bringing a claim on behalf of Tesco store workers for equal pay. We are doing so to promote equality and challenge how large retailers pay their employees in different areas of their business.
https://www.leighday.co.uk/Employment-discrimination/Equal-pay-claims/Tesco-equal-pay-claim (https://www.leighday.co.uk/Employment-discrimination/Equal-pay-claims/Tesco-equal-pay-claim)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 31-01-19, 01:02PM
Hopefully some pay back for the way the toffs in the ivory towers have treated us.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: HBKid on 31-01-19, 01:34PM
At the end of the day without DC workers nothing gets sent to stores, and without store workers nothing gets sold.  This claim was always going to win.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Charlie Harper on 31-01-19, 01:38PM
Still a very long way to go. Am I right in thinking that were the case to be won, back payments could be for up to 6 years???  (I won't hold my breathe waiting).
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 31-01-19, 01:40PM
Cool. Some good news. I think back pay is for the whole period , even if its 10 years. Well i dont mind getting 100k in one go. :P
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: sunshineman on 31-01-19, 01:42PM
Well the legal team seem to be winning the fight but still a long way to go. My question is, for those people who did not put their name down for the legal fight, would they get paid out. A lot of people I have spoken to were not sure how to join the legal battle and what it would cost them. Will it just be the ones taking Tesco to court who will get backdated pay if they win, or will everyone get it. If Tesco do lose then I have a feeling they will do an out of court settlement where it will all be sealed and no one is allowed to talk about it
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: bugsbunny on 31-01-19, 01:53PM
Absolutely Hammer 10, what comes around goes around
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: 1 on 31-01-19, 01:57PM
A few thousand on the way then for the Equal Pay Claim. I am staying off sick tonight.  Slap some enhanced redundancy on to. :)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: arlo on 31-01-19, 02:07PM
everyone would get payout i would think .....doubt it will happen
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: HBKid on 31-01-19, 02:28PM
Only the people who have signed up get backdated pay.  Everyone else will benefit from increased hourly rate.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Charlie Harper on 31-01-19, 02:56PM
I'm not so sure it is only those that have signed up as there were reports that it could cost Tesco up to 4 Billion.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/11/tesco-faces-4bn-equal-pay-bill-as-claimant-numbers-swell-to-1000 (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/11/tesco-faces-4bn-equal-pay-bill-as-claimant-numbers-swell-to-1000)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BobbySands on 31-01-19, 03:01PM
Should be for everyone affected right ?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: 1 on 31-01-19, 03:06PM
Everyone will see increase in hourly pay to match those of distribution. If you claim for backdated you can get this either through Leigh Day at a fee or use your own defense team.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: HBKid on 31-01-19, 03:26PM
Quote from: 1 on 31-01-19, 03:06PM
Everyone will see increase in hourly pay to match those of distribution. If you claim for backdated you can get this either through Leigh Day at a fee or use your own defense team.

Is the right answer.  Leigh Day aren't representing everyone.  Just those who have signed up.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Charlie Harper on 31-01-19, 03:30PM
I see they offer a no win no fee sign up (Yes, you can still sign up) but does anyone know the fee or percentage Leigh Day intend to charge each individual IF the case is won?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BobbySands on 31-01-19, 03:31PM
They'll want their pound of flesh I'd imagine
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Charlie Harper on 31-01-19, 03:36PM
No doubt. I have just emailed them.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 31-01-19, 04:23PM
Quote from: Charlie Harper on 31-01-19, 03:30PM
I see they offer a no win no fee sign up (Yes, you can still sign up) but does anyone know the fee or percentage Leigh Day intend to charge each individual IF the case is won?

Its 25% of what you win in damages - Im a signed up person to this
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 31-01-19, 04:25PM
Quote from: Charlie Harper on 31-01-19, 01:38PM
Still a very long way to go. Am I right in thinking that were the case to be won, back payments could be for up to 6 years???  (I won't hold my breathe waiting).

Its 6 years they can go back from the letter I had
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 31-01-19, 04:42PM
From start to finish it could over 5 years but the longer it goes on they said you could get as much as 40000 before they deduct their cut.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: londoner83 on 31-01-19, 06:42PM
Have no opinion on the merits of the case, but I'd  imagine if shopworkers won their case another bunch of staff/depts would be cut to cover the compensation payments
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Charlie Harper on 31-01-19, 07:27PM
With a 30K pay out I'd be more than happy to go. Of course, I'd want a redundancy pay off too  8)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: 1 on 31-01-19, 07:58PM
Quote from: londoner83 on 31-01-19, 06:42PM
Have no opinion on the merits of the case, but I'd  imagine if shopworkers won their case another bunch of staff/depts would be cut to cover the compensation payments

Tesco made 1.5 billion profit and the payouts could potentially run into almost 10 billion.   (-*-)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 31-01-19, 08:08PM
@Opshunned


Welcome back (even if it is only temporarily), hope you are well. It seems that the worm is turning. Cue the nay sayers....  ;D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 31-01-19, 08:11PM
Don't forget that you can still join the fight if you have recently left tesco. I am not certain but I think the limit may be 6 months. Hopefully somebody here will know for sure.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Ron on 31-01-19, 08:13PM
Any one any idea if this is applicable to Northern Ireland as it just says England, Scotland and Wales?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Charlie Harper on 31-01-19, 08:18PM
That is correct Optout
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 31-01-19, 08:20PM
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/what-equal-work (https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/what-equal-work)


this seems to cover Great Britain
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 31-01-19, 08:30PM
Here is a link to the firm (I notice that it says in the verbiage that the limit is if you have worked in tesco in the last 6 years (not months), so it may be worth an email to find out, if you have left tesco in the last few years!

tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Charlie Harper on 31-01-19, 08:45PM
https://www.leighday.co.uk/Employment-discrimination/Equal-pay-claims/Tesco-equal-pay-claim (https://www.leighday.co.uk/Employment-discrimination/Equal-pay-claims/Tesco-equal-pay-claim)

Slight contradiction in the wording as on this page (link above) it says 'You can also bring a claim if you have left Tesco within the last 6 months'. It then goes on... 'If you left Tesco more than 6 months ago, please contact a member of our team who will discuss how you may be affected.'

As output says, it may be worth while emailing to find out more or for clarification.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 31-01-19, 08:52PM
@Ron
sorry but I may be wrong about its applicability in NI, as NI is not covered by the Equalities Act 2010. have a look here http://www.ecu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/external/anti-discrimination-law-in-ni.doc (http://www.ecu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/external/anti-discrimination-law-in-ni.doc)

But if on your travels you find out that you can apply in NI please let us know as I am sure there are many on this site from NI who would like to know. :thumbup:

@Charlie Harper
:thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 01-02-19, 01:23AM
Quote from: Charlie Harper on 31-01-19, 03:30PM
I see they offer a no win no fee sign up (Yes, you can still sign up) but does anyone know the fee or percentage Leigh Day intend to charge each individual IF the case is won?

25% of ££££ . Witch will be reduced if more people join in.
Second part is that those who will not join will not receive compensation at all. Not even a penny. Its a no win no fee claim so nothing to lose. People who join claim and leave Tesco  will receive compensation as well but it would be smaller amount.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 01-02-19, 01:25AM
Quote from: 1 on 31-01-19, 07:58PM
Quote from: londoner83 on 31-01-19, 06:42PM
Have no opinion on the merits of the case, but I'd  imagine if shopworkers won their case another bunch of staff/depts would be cut to cover the compensation payments

Tesco made 1.5 billion profit and the payouts could potentially run into almost 10 billion.   (-*-)
Those billions are to be shared between all supermarkets.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: fatboy on 01-02-19, 09:35AM
Just joined the claim. Worth a bash as it's no win no fee  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: bazlindon on 01-02-19, 12:00PM
I`m sure if they win the case against Asda/Tesco/Morrisons then EVERYONE who worked for them would be entitled to the same compensation even if they haven't used Leigh Day Solicitors or this would be predujiced.
I think that all you would have to do is write a letter to your company asking for the difference in pay as awarded through the courts to anyone who was paid less than the warehouse staff.
If they didn't you would just sue them through the courts quoting the Claim awarded to other members of staff and then and claim your expenses in the court also.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 01-02-19, 01:13PM
Sounds just like claiming back PPI  :D
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Walker on 01-02-19, 01:30PM
It would make a difference because you could only claim money back for six years before you issue the claim. That said, personally, I would wait and see if the case is successful. You don't want to be on the hook for lawyers fees.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 01-02-19, 11:21PM
Quote from: Walker on 01-02-19, 01:30PM
It would make a difference because you could only claim money back for six years before you issue the claim. That said, personally, I would wait and see if the case is successful. You don't want to be on the hook for lawyers fees.

I thought the same as you but was told tesco arent going to give anyone who qualifies money unless they are sued. This would mean paying all the current staff a payout and anyone else who has worked anything in the last 6 years

The law for employment is different to PPI. Assuming Leigh D wins you would still need to go to a tribunal to get a payment from tesco admittedly your costs would be cheaper as the tribunal has follow the decision of the higher courts and you would not have to prove anything. 
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 01-02-19, 11:24PM
Quote from: Charlie Harper on 31-01-19, 08:45PM
https://www.leighday.co.uk/Employment-discrimination/Equal-pay-claims/Tesco-equal-pay-claim (https://www.leighday.co.uk/Employment-discrimination/Equal-pay-claims/Tesco-equal-pay-claim)

Slight contradiction in the wording as on this page (link above) it says 'You can also bring a claim if you have left Tesco within the last 6 months'. It then goes on... 'If you left Tesco more than 6 months ago, please contact a member of our team who will discuss how you may be affected.'

As output says, it may be worth while emailing to find out more or for clarification.

This is to do with how you left tesco for example if you were made redundant and had a payout tesco can claim that you payment was in full and final settlement. An ordinary resignation is no problem but would be different say if you were paid off with any kind of goodwill payment
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Vanilla on 02-02-19, 06:55AM
This might have already been covered but where are the Unions in all of this?
Surely they, the Unions, should have been fighting the cause of its members before it ever got to this stage?
Big winners from successful claim will be Leigh Day but at least they are fighting the cause.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 02-02-19, 11:29PM
I wonder if the poorly paid dc's can claim as well?
There's no argument there is a case for equal pay, we may fill the mass of vacancies easier.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 02-02-19, 11:32PM
If this does go through then there would be nothing to stop Tesco from sending store staff to dc's and vice versa.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: bazlindon on 03-02-19, 01:02AM
So , if this goes through, will DC hourly wage be cut to match our wages or will we get a pay rise to match DC wages ?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 03-02-19, 02:52AM
Most likely a pay freeze for the foreseeable future for all staff, though cutting dc wages wouldn't surprise me
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 03-02-19, 04:13AM
Quote from: Vanilla on 02-02-19, 06:55AM
This might have already been covered but where are the Unions in all of this?
Surely they, the Unions, should have been fighting the cause of its members before it ever got to this stage?
Big winners from successful claim will be Leigh Day but at least they are fighting the cause.
Well do not forget that we are talking about few dozens of lawyers forking for free for few years.
Take 10 if them with 20k salary , multiply it by 5 years and you have now 1M. But real cost is even bigger, how much? God knows.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: dairyfresh on 03-02-19, 05:48AM
Quote from: bazlindon on 03-02-19, 01:02AM
So , if this goes through, will DC hourly wage be cut to match our wages or will we get a pay rise to match DC wages ?

Most likely pay freeze. Then mass store closures and more redundancy.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 03-02-19, 10:22AM
I was under the impression that different dc's earn different rates,  am I wrong ?
So which DC are there trying to compare stores to ?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 03-02-19, 05:04PM
Welshie you are not Wrong, there are indeed different rates for different Dc's. Also at some DC's there are Multiple rates within the same location.

It will be interesting to see which Rate will be comparable if the roles are proven to be of equal value, providing in The T claim the claimants can compare the different roles, as this is not yet certain.
It has been Granted in the Asda case, but part of that claim was that historicaly  some workers crossed sectors DC's - Retail and Retail -DC, some senior managers were fearful of the implications this could have on pay claims and evidence was presented (emails) expressing the concerns and Planning and action of counter measures to stop the the comparison being made.
So Asda were shown to have taken direct planned action to stop a comparison being made in what appeared to be a more versatile workforce.
So the emphasis on the court granting the claimants the right to compare roles was partly because ASDA denied them that right by its planing and action.

Granting the right to compare is simply that " a right to"  it doesn't prove equal value or a legitimate comparison, evidence of workers crossing the sectional devide to work in the Asda case also helped their claim.
Evidence that is likely not to be established in the T claim.

All in the ASDA case notes.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: madness on 03-02-19, 05:17PM
Suppose the supermarkets lose this and just bring the distribution wage down to that of store levels instead of the other way around?
The tech is not a million miles away from just pushing your trolly through a sensor and doing away with the cashier altogether. At least everyone will be able to go and work in a distribution centre seeing as it is the same level of work effort....
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 03-02-19, 06:01PM
@duracell


Just to remind people, you are a rep in distribution? So what could your motivations be, in 'contributing to' (read, trying to dissuade people from  supporting) an issue that benefits those in store I wonder? As a rep are you privy to usdaws official stance on this issue, if you are could you please direct us to the official union contact regarding this issue, as I for one would like to get an official, written, response to this action from usdaw. I assume (or should that be 'presume') that as a rep (with an obvious interest in this subject) you are aware of usdaws official stance (and therefore usdaws official advice to its members) on this issue?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 03-02-19, 06:56PM
Just to remind people, you are a rep in distribution? Question or statement?
So what could your motivations be, in 'contributing to' (read, trying to dissuade people from  supporting) an issue that benefits those in store I wonder? Realism rather than propaganda, your presumption is I am trying to dissuade when the reality is I am commenting with an alternative view, which offers a balance, I dissuade no one, y'all climb aboard the apparent Gravy Train and fill your boots with gold or just very messy gravy which ever it turns out to be
As a rep are you privy to usdaws official stance on this issue, Am I ? Are you Certain? if you are could you please direct us to the official union contact regarding this issue, as I for one would like to get an official, written, response to this action from usdaw. I assume (or should that be 'presume') that as a rep (with an obvious interest in this subject) you are aware of usdaws official stance (and therefore usdaws official advice to its members) on this issue? You are correct in that you are presumptuous, I am not aware if Union officials have a stance and if they do what it is. What I am sure of is if they did communicate any stance it would be to the section of reps and members it affects through their national officer, as you have reminded the Forum but seem quite eager to dismiss when it suits you,  I am from Distribution and as such communicated to by a different National Officer so am unable to deny or confirm if any stance is present or any communication has taken place, I could offer personal opinion but you are not asking that, what I can do is accept your request and direct you to the right place, USDAW web site, you will find it if you google USDAW and then search their web site for contact details, choose your preferred method and ask them yourself.

Again probably not what you want to hear as it opposes your presumptuous view but never the less realism and factual based on experiences and information I DO have or Am aware of.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OvaSees on 03-02-19, 08:11PM
Quote from: madness on 03-02-19, 05:17PM
Suppose the supermarkets lose this and just bring the distribution wage down to that of store levels instead of the other way around?
The tech is not a million miles away from just pushing your trolly through a sensor and doing away with the cashier altogether. At least everyone will be able to go and work in a distribution centre seeing as it is the same level of work effort....
This. Harmonisation is the way things will go, distribution will potentially face pay freezes/premium erosion in order to fund retail which will get rises until both are equal and in line with the NMW. I said it at the time - be careful what you wish for... the only winner will be the company that will face an overall lower NI cost in the long term.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 03-02-19, 09:12PM
Question is, who would want to work in a depo centre earning the same money a 16 year old school kid makes in retail.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lackofinterest on 03-02-19, 09:29PM
exactly! nobody with a brain cell 8-)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 03-02-19, 11:45PM
Anyone that thinks that Distribution will accept pay freezes when all other sectors of the business enjoy pay rises are either astoundingly naieve or have no clue about Distribution or its workforce.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 04-02-19, 01:38AM
If Tesco will loose it will have to rearange whole pay structure in some way that can be seen in europe and keep flat gap between one role and another.
Checkouts, replenishement, instore warehouse, distribution center, age/ experience, location pay, hours worked, attendance, performance etc. All will have to be taken into account so the pay could be formed in way that is fair.
At the moment on one side Tesco is trying to offer same pay to everyone but in the same time its diferent between DCs but role is same.

One more question to dc worker. Would like find out what is minimum picking target u got. How many cages you load during one shift, and how long that shift last. Examples pls.

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 04-02-19, 02:28AM
Shop floor staff did not create this problem, tesco did, whilst usdaw and distribution watched (and it seems are still quite happy to watch). Shop floor staff are at last standing up for themselves.

I would have thought that any rep would be proud to see their membership stand up for themselves (after all the argument we are given for the unions inaction when it comes to erosion of our working conditions is that we the members will not stand up for ourselves) and ashamed of the hierarchy of usdaw and tesco for allowing this situation to develop for so long.

Make no mistake, this situation has not just happened over night.  And now that this issue is finally coming home to roost, we seem to be finding out just who the cuckoos in the nest are.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OvaSees on 04-02-19, 07:01AM
Quote from: alf on 03-02-19, 09:12PM
Question is, who would want to work in a depo centre earning the same money a 16 year old school kid makes in retail.
Exactly, and closer to home why would anyone work on the backdoor tipping deliveries in the rain, or work unsociable hours filling shelves, or do any manual labour at all for that matter when you can get paid the same rate for sitting on a till?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 04-02-19, 07:51AM
Quote from: lordadmiral on 04-02-19, 01:38AM
If Tesco will loose it will have to rearange whole pay structure in some way that can be seen in europe and keep flat gap between one role and another.
Checkouts, replenishement, instore warehouse, distribution center, age/ experience, location pay, hours worked, attendance, performance etc. All will have to be taken into account so the pay could be formed in way that is fair.
At the moment on one side Tesco is trying to offer same pay to everyone but in the same time its diferent between DCs but role is same.

One more question to dc worker. Would like find out what is minimum picking target u got. How many cages you load during one shift, and how long that shift last. Examples pls.

There is no picking target as such as it's timed on travelling time, collecting cages, assembling at location, and dropping off at the
bay. You can assemble 20 cages in 7.5 hrs.

The loading can be 35 cages per hour, including double deckers if required, so 250 approximately in 7.5 hours.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 04-02-19, 10:17AM
 "why would anyone work on the backdoor tipping deliveries in the rain, .........., or do any manual labour at all"

To keep fit, slim and healthy  :)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OvaSees on 04-02-19, 01:34PM
Sorry Nomad, I forgot how much Tesco cares for our wellbeing LOL!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 04-02-19, 01:48PM
Quote from: Carparkpothole on 04-02-19, 07:51AM
Quote from: lordadmiral on 04-02-19, 01:38AM
If Tesco will loose it will have to rearange whole pay structure in some way that can be seen in europe and keep flat gap between one role and another.
Checkouts, replenishement, instore warehouse, distribution center, age/ experience, location pay, hours worked, attendance, performance etc. All will have to be taken into account so the pay could be formed in way that is fair.
At the moment on one side Tesco is trying to offer same pay to everyone but in the same time its diferent between DCs but role is same.

One more question to dc worker. Would like find out what is minimum picking target u got. How many cages you load during one shift, and how long that shift last. Examples pls.

There is no picking target as such as it's timed on travelling time, collecting cages, assembling at location, and dropping off at the
bay. You can assemble 20 cages in 7.5 hrs.

The loading can be 35 cages per hour, including double deckers if required, so 250 approximately in 7.5 hours.
I see.  Good to know. Thx
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: grim up north on 04-02-19, 03:09PM
Quote from: lordadmiral on 04-02-19, 01:38AM
One more question to dc worker. Would like find out what is minimum picking target u got. How many cages you load during one shift, and how long that shift last. Examples pls.

Hard to say, as different DC's have different stock, different ways of working and so on. At my DC on a bad day, you could end up picking 60 cages full of BWS or pop in 7.5 hours
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: NightAndDay on 04-02-19, 03:31PM
Quote from: madness on 03-02-19, 05:17PM
Suppose the supermarkets lose this and just bring the distribution wage down to that of store levels instead of the other way around?
The tech is not a million miles away from just pushing your trolly through a sensor and doing away with the cashier altogether. At least everyone will be able to go and work in a distribution centre seeing as it is the same level of work effort....

It is illegal to decrease wages, all they can do is cut hours or lower premium payments (how they get around lowering wages) but they can't decrease the base rate.

Even if they could, as with Tescos shop floor pay at the moment, it would render them uncompetitive meaning increaeed turnover, higher training costs and higher n.i costs.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 06-02-19, 03:43PM
Todays email update

STORE-WORKERS CAN COMPARE THEMSELVES TO DISTRIBUTION CENTRE WORKERS IN PAY CLAIMS

Last week Leigh Day won for the third time when the Court of Appeal agreed that store-workers working at Asda can compare their job with the jobs of their colleagues working in the company's distribution centres.

Read the full article here.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR TESCO STORE-WORKERS?

All of the three judges that heard the claim decided in our favour. They ruled that in the vast majority of cases the law allows an employee to compare themselves with any employee of the same employer. This is a very important step forward for the equal pay claim we will take on your behalf as although Tesco were not involved in the case it sets an example for all equal pay claims against supermarkets.

While Tesco may still try and defend your equal pay claim by saying that store-workers cannot compare themselves with distribution workers, we are very confident that such arguments, like those brought by Asda, will also not succeed.

We understand that equal pay can all be a little confusing and it's not always as straight forward as it seems, so we've broken down the essentials and created a video to explain the issue.

Watch now



WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

In our last letter we updated you on a hearing we had in November 2018. At that hearing we agreed a timetable by which the parties were to provide certain information. We are progressing well with this timetable and have another hearing with Tesco in early May. A further update will follow shortly after. 

WHAT DO I NEED TO DO?

In December 2018 we sent our current clients an Employment Information Sheet to complete. We have now received approximately 1000 replies which the team are working hard to review. THANK YOU to those of you who replied. If you have not yet done so, please complete and return to us at your earliest convenience as this will assist us in winning your claim. If you have yet to receive an Employment Information Sheet do not worry – one will be sent out within the next month.

EQUAL PAY NOW WEBSITE

Visit our website to find out more about the claim and equal pay. You can also follow us on social media for regular updates.
EQUALPAYNOW.CO.UK



If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us on 0800 689 0570 or tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Loki on 06-02-19, 08:07PM
Quote from: optout on 03-02-19, 06:01PM
@duracell


Just to remind people, you are a rep in distribution? So what could your motivations be, in 'contributing to' (read, trying to dissuade people from  supporting) an issue that benefits those in store I wonder? As a rep are you privy to usdaws official stance on this issue, if you are could you please direct us to the official union contact regarding this issue, as I for one would like to get an official, written, response to this action from usdaw. I assume (or should that be 'presume') that as a rep (with an obvious interest in this subject) you are aware of usdaws official stance (and therefore usdaws official advice to its members) on this issue?

Not Duracell, myself or any other rep that I know of are in receipt of any detailed communication regarding this matter. Last year Usdaw published the following...

Date: 07 February 2018
In the retail sector, Usdaw has long been at the forefront of calls for fair and transparent pay structures, irrespective of gender or age.
In recent months, Usdaw has been discussing this issue with a number of employers, including Tesco, in preparation for the introduction of mandatory gender pay gap reporting later this year. This is a change in the law which requires larger employers to publish information regarding differences in pay between men and women.

Equal pay will continue to be high on our negotiating agenda.

Usdaw is actively engaging with all employers where we organise, to establish the facts as to whether there are potential issues with equal pay for work of equal value.

The Union will take the appropriate steps, whether through negotiations or legal channels, to address any issues that may be identified as part of this process.

Usdaw is not part of the reported legal claim.




As you can see, Usdaw have made no official stance regarding the LeighDay claim, however, it is evident that they do not endorse the claim. In fact they make it very clear that they have no involvement in the claim.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Vanilla on 06-02-19, 10:41PM
If USDAW were impartial rather than being Tosco's lapdog then we would never have got into this situation.
Fools are the ones still paying their union subs
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 14-02-19, 10:21PM
https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/morrisons-equal-pay-claim-2019-shop-floor-staff/ (https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/morrisons-equal-pay-claim-2019-shop-floor-staff/)
It seems there is more than just one law firm putting their money where their mouth is.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 04-04-19, 03:38PM
Another issue at Tesco.

"We've been informed that Tesco has reviewed all job codes in stores and as a result noticed that many employees are on an incorrect job code. We understand this may impact the pay of some of those employees identified as having been on an incorrect job code.

If you have been told about changes to your job code and pay,  or colleagues in your store have been told please get in contact with us on 0800 689 0570 or tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk.

Please note, if you have been advised that you have been underpaid as a result of a job code change,  we will try to recover these losses in your equal pay claim.

Kind regards,"

I looked at my job code at few payslips and it is changing every other month. ???!!!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 04-04-19, 05:57PM
I just got a letter from my claim people this is it.

https://imgur.com/a/o3YzvCh
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 04-04-19, 07:03PM
When does the next thing of any significance happen in the ASDA case? Decided not to go with one of the claims companies and risk losing 25% of any potential payout. Will take my chances on suing them for the full amount if your claim wins and sets a precedent ;)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: optout on 04-04-19, 11:11PM
I think the following is correct, and hope that others can confirm or refute my belief's.


You can only claim upto a maximum of 6 years from the date of the claim. So, if for example the case is finally resolved in our favour in 3 years time (lets face it these cases take time) that would bring us to April 2022, and you put your claim in then.  You would only able be to claim back dated payment to April 2016, whereas if you start your claim now, your back dated payment would (in this example) be dated back to April 2013. This would give 9 years payment vs 6 years payment.

I hope I am correct in my thinking, and if so, I am sure that you have already taken this into account when making your decision, but just in case. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 05-04-19, 03:59AM
Yes that is right. The later you join the less you get. The more people join then fee can go down. So instead 25% it could be 15%.
Compensation is capped at 20k for 6 years. 3,3k per year. So given example of 9 years give 30k minus fee. Its still more than suing on your own and receiving 20 k max

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 05-04-19, 03:31PM
@Barry, great stuff matey I hope it works out for you. Personaly I am a lazy so and so and am willing to part with 25% of whatever I get so I dont have to do owt.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 13-05-19, 08:34PM
"Update – May 2019 Preliminary Hearing with Tesco

We attended our third Preliminary Hearing with Tesco on Wednesday 8 May - these hearings tend to deal with administrative matters only to ensure that the case is making progress.

We were given a checklist of actions to complete along with Tesco to progress the claim.

The three main areas covered at the Preliminary Hearing were:

    Tesco's delayed production of documents;
    the different job roles in stores and what Tesco say are the differences with each job role; and
    listing this claim for the first of three formal Equal Value hearings.   

The Employment Judge has given the parties one week to agree a way forward in respect of Tesco's delayed production of documents to Leigh Day, failing which we will ask her to make orders compelling Tesco to provide the necessary information.

Two further Preliminary hearings were set for 29 July 2019 and 24 October 2019.  We were also successful in securing a Stage One Equal Value hearing date to take place over 3 days in April 2020.

Redundancies

We understand that a number of service counter workers are likely to be made redundant shortly. In the event that this applies to you, or someone you know, be cautious before signing any redundancy agreement. It is common for employers to ask their employees to sign a document sacrificing their legal right to bring an equal pay claim. If this happens to you, please call us before you sign anything.

Job changes

A reminder that you must notify us as soon as possible if your job changes in any way (i.e. change in store/ hours/ job title/ end of employment/ beginning or ending a career break) so we can ensure that your claim is as accurate as possible. 

Other supermarket claims

Leigh Day won for the third time against Asda, highlighted in our February update letter. The Court of Appeal agreed that store-workers at Asda are legally entitled to compare their job with colleagues in the Distribution Centres. Tesco has told us that they are waiting to see if Asda take this to the Supreme Court before clarifying their position in your case.

As well as bringing equal pay claims against Tesco and Asda, we also act for store workers in Sainsbury's, the Co-op and Morrisons. In total, we act for over 30,000 hourly paid supermarket workers. You really are part of something very big."
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BoredBaker on 13-07-19, 11:23AM
Has anyone had any success with the Leigh Day claims? Is it worth applying? How much do you stand to get back and does your store find out that you've claimed?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: madness on 13-07-19, 11:43AM
I wonder if a judge ever did a day working in a distribution centre and a day workng in a shop sitting on a checkout would that change their outlook...
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 13-07-19, 01:25PM
I have signed up for it could get 20000 but not holding out any hope as they will weasel their way out of it.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: 1man2jobs on 13-07-19, 04:41PM
Quote from: madness on 13-07-19, 11:43AM
I wonder if a judge ever did a day working in a distribution centre and a day workng in a shop sitting on a checkout would that change their outlook...

been working in stores 10 years and have yet to sit down whilst on duty unless im in the training room for 10 minutes or during any disciplinary stages. I've also worked in distribution for another company picking frozen orders in a chilled warehouse, if I had to compare the two I will easily describe the store work as much more demanding work; and I strongly agree that the roles are at least are of equal value. but hey-ho what do I know..., or the barristers..., or the judges?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: T2019sackallmanagers on 13-07-19, 06:23PM
Quote from: 1man2jobs on 13-07-19, 04:41PM
Quote from: madness on 13-07-19, 11:43AM
I wonder if a judge ever did a day working in a distribution centre and a day workng in a shop sitting on a checkout would that change their outlook...

been working in stores 10 years and have yet to sit down whilst on duty unless im in the training room for 10 minutes or during any disciplinary stages. I've also worked in distribution for another company picking frozen orders in a chilled warehouse, if I had to compare the two I will easily describe the store work as much more demanding work; and I strongly agree that the roles are at least are of equal value. but hey-ho what do I know..., or the barristers..., or the judges?
Exactly same here stacking on nights. We've had plenty of Magor dc staff come to our store thinking it would be easier than dc, how wrong they were. They all left pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 13-07-19, 06:43PM
Quote from: madness on 13-07-19, 11:43AM
I wonder if a judge ever did a day working in a distribution centre and a day workng in a shop sitting on a checkout would that change their outlook...

No different to the people sat on a forklift truck all day/night is it really. Have you ever worked in a store?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: taliahad on 14-07-19, 08:34AM
How do I sign up?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 14-07-19, 09:39AM
https://www.leighday.co.uk/Employment-discrimination/Equal-pay-claims/Tesco-equal-pay-claim (https://www.leighday.co.uk/Employment-discrimination/Equal-pay-claims/Tesco-equal-pay-claim)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 02-08-19, 07:26PM
"The Supreme Court has decided that it will consider an appeal from ASDA relating to whether store-workers can compare their roles to distribution workers in the UK's biggest equal pay case.
We have already won this argument against ASDA three times and are confident that we will win again.
The Supreme Court is the final court of appeal in the UK for civil cases. It hears cases of the greatest public or constitutional importance affecting the whole population.

HOW THE RULING AFFECTS YOU!
We represent over 41,000 store-workers in total from the big five supermarkets – ASDA, Sainsbury's, Tesco, Morrisons and the Co-op - in similar equal pay cases which will be impacted by the Supreme Court's decision.

In Tesco, store-workers are mainly women, who argue that they should be paid equally to their colleagues in the distribution centres, who are mainly men, for their work of equal value. This is the same argument that we are advancing in the ASDA claim.
The total estimate of the claims against the big five supermarkets, if they lose their cases and are ordered to pay all eligible staff, could be over £8 billion.

STRENGTH IN NUMBERS

Have a friend or colleague who has expressed an interest in the claim? They could check out our www.equalpaynow.co.uk (http://www.equalpaynow.co.uk) website, and so can you, to find out more information.

You really are a part of something big.

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact the team on 0800 689 0570 or tescoequalpay@leighday.co.uk. "

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lucgeo on 03-08-19, 08:37AM
Quote from: BarryZola on 04-04-19, 07:03PM
When does the next thing of any significance happen in the ASDA case? Decided not to go with one of the claims companies and risk losing 25% of any potential payout. Will take my chances on suing them for the full amount if your claim wins and sets a precedent ;)

Ok people, forgive my ignorance here but...if the Supreme Court rules in favour and the case is won...why don't all shopfloor colleagues, employed during the 6 year timescale automatically receive the backpay, and not just the ones who signed up for the claim?? Surely once it's found in the shopworker's favour, it would encompass all those workers employed during the relevant time?? If the court has passed the ruling, then the precedent is surely set for all??

Not looking to ride on the backs of others here, I realise that solicitor fees are being charged, and to be paid by you all should you lose, just confused as to why its only awarded to those claiming, and only in ratio of the timescale from the date of signing up??

Again I emphasise I'm not hoping to gain at your expense, I'm am just honestly confused  :(
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: fatboy on 03-08-19, 08:44AM
Lucego, my thoughts exactly. I also decided not to use a claim company in the hope that if a payout is made we would all get a sniff.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nightworker23 on 03-08-19, 09:12AM
I think it works like the PPI claims.  You have to express a complaint and claim what's owed to you.  Otherwise the banks would just have to repay everybody owed, rather than just those who claim.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Welshie on 03-08-19, 01:36PM
Surely in light of recent payouts by Tesco , pension and cycle to work scheme taking you to below minimum wage and pfs time to cross carpark , once they realised they would have to payout , they would just pay it to everyone owed at one time rather than have to faff about with individual claims ??
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: T.C.1 on 03-08-19, 02:17PM
So if like a PPI claim Tesco have no choice but to pay out if you put in a complaint yourself you receive 100% of the pay out and not pay a fee to the claim company??
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: fatboy on 03-08-19, 02:20PM
That's my thinking. If tesco do have to pay out then the employees who didn't use a claims company could be better off than the ones that did.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 03-08-19, 02:32PM
If there's any money left if they know they have to pay out they will do a deal.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: 1man2jobs on 03-08-19, 03:48PM
Quote from: fatboy on 03-08-19, 02:20PM
That's my thinking. If tesco do have to pay out then the employees who didn't use a claims company could be better off than the ones that did.

No, because even with paying 25% it works out better to join through Leigh Day.  Leigh Day claims get backdated 6 years from claim received plus the time it takes to resolve (in my particular case that will be 2012 until est resolution date 2022); whereas a private claim after the ruling will be no more than 6 years and may be capped.  In my case the Leigh Day option provides better compensation regardless of the 25%.  Someone did comment somewhere within this thread that the more people who sign up the percentage goes down, however I've not read this from Leigh Day but from a comment made in this forum.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lucgeo on 03-08-19, 04:11PM
Phew! glad it wasn't me being totally thick there, and others were also uncertain  ;)

So we've had a bit of clarity now, and the ones who signed up will only be out of pocket if they lose, but reap an extra benefit should they win, plus, I'm taking it, their legal costs will also be met by Tesco?

If the case is proven, I personally think Tesco will only pay out to those who claim, as there will probably be a great deal of ex employees who qualify for payment. It would be a mammoth task for Tesco to work out each individual employees circumstances, length of service during the timescale, and paying the part %. Not to mention locating each individual, and would they even hold contact details, service records and employee numbers, including those who've since retired or sadly passed away, which would mean contacting surviving family...and let's face it they cocked up a few redundancy payments, and those staff had only just left  :-X

No, it's my opinion, that the onus will be on the ex employees to claim and provide proof of employment, by means of dates, location, job title and employee number...so I would urge everyone to keep those details for future reference.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: T.C.1 on 03-08-19, 04:30PM
Probably it will be years before it all gets sorted as the appeal court has granted Asda leave to appeal against the lastest claim.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 03-08-19, 08:30PM
Just to be clear, those who are signed up through Leigh Day are only doing so in a 'No Win, No Fee' capacity. If the staff claiments lose their case, they have no fees to pay. If the case is won by the employees then Leigh Day get their 25% cut from every staff member claiment's winnings. This is why it is a worthwhile enterprise for Leigh Day. If it comes off for them they will make millions in exchange for their legal expertise and time. There is no risk to individuals signed up through leigh Day unless you try to leave them half way through litigation or something extremely stupid like that.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 04-08-19, 01:34AM
Quote from: 1man2jobs on 03-08-19, 03:48PM
Quote from: fatboy on 03-08-19, 02:20PM
That's my thinking. If tesco do have to pay out then the employees who didn't use a claims company could be better off than the ones that did.

No, because even with paying 25% it works out better to join through Leigh Day.  Leigh Day claims get backdated 6 years from claim received plus the time it takes to resolve (in my particular case that will be 2012 until est resolution date 2022); whereas a private claim after the ruling will be no more than 6 years and may be capped.  In my case the Leigh Day option provides better compensation regardless of the 25%.  Someone did comment somewhere within this thread that the more people who sign up the percentage goes down, however I've not read this from Leigh Day but from a comment made in this forum.
I had break down of the fees when i receive my documents. There was note that the more sign in fees might go down.
Out of my head i found somewhere on gov website that , tha the law is constructed in that way to benefit those who will seek court solution. As said earlier its similar to PPI.
Anyone, who will not join claim, will not receive a single penny. They will  benefit from new higher pay if tesco establish it. If Tesco loose case then lawyers will start working around to protect company from further looses.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 04-08-19, 04:29PM
The court case is for the back pay not the pay rise that will come from it. So if you are not in the pay claim then you wont get any money unless you do your own claim and court case.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: fatboy on 04-08-19, 04:48PM
Yes and once you threaten to do this tesco will pay out as they know they will lose anyway if it goes to court.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 27-08-19, 11:59PM
In our recent talks with Tesco, they say that UK law isn't clear when it comes to paying you equally. We think this is just further reason to deny paying you and your colleagues equal pay.

The UK's equal pay laws are strengthened by EU law so, on behalf of store staff, we are asking the European Court of Justice to clarify an important part of law which will make it easier to bring equal pay claims for people like you.

We hope that a judgment from the European Court of Justice will make clear the rights of store workers to bring these claims.

It is hoped that even if a no deal Brexit goes ahead, given the application is made before the 31st October, then any positive ruling which may be a year or more away will be respected by the UK courts and UK employers.



Click here to read more.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Siwel123 on 30-08-19, 06:36PM
Would you recommend workers that have only been in Tescos a few months sign up to this claim? I'm male by the way.

Also would your managers be notified of your complaint? And is there anything legally stopping me talking about the claim to other colleagues?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 30-08-19, 10:15PM
It can't hurt can it.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Siwel123 on 31-08-19, 12:16AM
Just worried managers would be notified of me joining the claim?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: DJS1949 on 31-08-19, 09:44AM
Why worry what the managers think.  I honestly don't believe any of them worry about us.  They can't bully you or victimise you as your doing nothing wrong.  If the company treated its staff in the right way there wouldn't be the need for constant claims against them.  Myself personally you have to start up look after yourself.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: merchandiser4u on 31-08-19, 09:31PM
I wouldn't worry my mates wife is still working full time and even got promotion last year despite receiving £17,395 compensation (she was paid less than her male colleagues!)

https://www.itv.com/news/central/topic/equal-pay/ (https://www.itv.com/news/central/topic/equal-pay/)

:thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Vanilla on 04-12-19, 06:35AM
Any updates on this?
I heard that Tosco failed to send in some papers/answers?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Hammer10 on 04-12-19, 06:51AM
They got the papers as there was another hearing and the bits that were in them look favourable on our side not Tesco.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Jobless on 04-12-19, 11:08AM
If this one goes ahead there will be even less staff and even more stock which doesn't reach the shopfloor.  (-*-)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: madness on 04-12-19, 12:39PM
Yeah cos everyone will be working in the easy depot having moved from the checkouts of their local shop.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: takethemoneyandrun on 04-12-19, 01:23PM
Just out of interest is it worth a back-door man and grocery staff joining up to this claim or is it just for distribution.  My husband has worked on back door 17 years plus and produce and grocery before that, work is hard and he has a hernia through moving cages off wagons.  I saw it but we didn't know if he would be victimised by the hierarchy..
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 04-12-19, 03:11PM
Yes he is eligible to join up. They can't victimise him or then he will be able to claim for victimisation and/or unfair dismissal so it's not worth their trouble trying it on.

The latest development is basically that the lawyers have got their hands on some Tesco document which found that in 2014 Tesco themselves had compared many in-store roles with that of an Assembly/Picker role in distribution and Tesco had judged that these roles in store were more demanding than that DC role.

There's a legal hearing in October 2020 to decide whether this document can be used as evidence in the case and obviously if it's judged that it can be used in the case it's not going to look good for Tesco and could speed the whole legal process up.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: takethemoneyandrun on 04-12-19, 11:25PM
Thank you..so as long as you see it through to the end you will only pay if they win if not no fees to pay?

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 05-12-19, 03:48PM
First. Cost update ---- still no win no fee, 25% will be deducted if claim successful.

Second:
"We recently attended another Preliminary Hearing with Tesco - these hearings are mostly about administrative matters.         

Excitingly, at this hearing we brought to the Judge's attention a crucial document which we had asked Tesco to provide to us.

In 2014 they compared many store roles with an Assembly/Picker role in a distribution centres (DC). Although they didn't look at all roles, each one they looked at was rated as more demanding than the DC Picking Assistant role. We think this is a very important and helpful document for your equal pay claim.

Tesco's arguments

In Tesco's response to your equal pay claim they strongly deny that the work you do is of equal value to the men in the DC. They say they never evaluated the jobs of store workers and DC workers to see which jobs are more demanding. But this document provided to us suggests otherwise.

Tesco argues that this evaluation was not formalised so we can't rely on it to show your work is rated as equal. We disagree. To resolve the issue the judge listed a 7 day hearing in October 2020 to decide the issue as to whether we can rely on this evaluation. 

If we can rely on it, we wouldn't need an expert to show that the jobs evaluated are of equal value; Tesco will have done that for us. This would speed up the resolution of these claims. Even if we cannot rely on it, it is persuasive evidence that store roles are of equal value to those in the DC.
We will keep you updated on this element of the claim as it develops.

Next steps

We are still working towards identifying the roles in DCs that we want to use as a comparison, and we expect the Tribunal to appoint independent experts in the coming months. The experts' job will be to look at the store and DC roles and work out whether your role is of equal value to jobs in the DCs.
The next Preliminary Hearing is in December 2019. At this we will make sure the parties are complying with the Tribunal's Orders and are on track for the additional stages of the claim next year. Tesco have to provide us with your employment history and we will be in touch soon to check this with you. "
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 05-12-19, 03:50PM
One more thing i noticed after week off in our store.
No money for OT, part timers cant pick up extra shifts, agency workers hired on £10 p/h (plus agency fees).

I think that should be mentioned to lawyers and asked USDAW "WTF"....
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Duracell on 21-12-19, 06:54PM
As I tried to explain earlier in the thread and hypothesises in general, any incurred cost may be offset and reclaimed from the group causing the cost. I only hope the cost doesn't become so threatening that the cost of such a threat becomes overwhelming to all!!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: NightAndDay on 21-12-19, 09:56PM
Quote from: lordadmiral on 05-12-19, 03:50PM
One more thing i noticed after week off in our store.
No money for OT, part timers cant pick up extra shifts, agency workers hired on £10 p/h (plus agency fees).

I think that should be mentioned to lawyers and asked USDAW "WTF"....

Agency workers are more expensive because Tesco doesn't have to pay them sick pay or holidays, they also don't come under the same level of administration as permanent staff. They also can't be managed as effectively by Tesco managers as the agency is their employer, that also means Tesco don't have to discipline or performance manage them, The manager can just have a word with the agency telling them that they don't want agency worker A working in their store for something as trivial as their accent.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: NightAndDay on 08-02-20, 01:46PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47072013 (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47072013)

Looks like it might be a good time to put your claims in.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Jasperjakes on 08-02-20, 05:07PM
can you still sign up with leigh day or is it too late now.
Thanks
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 08-02-20, 09:10PM
Its not too late
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: T2019sackallmanagers on 09-02-20, 09:46AM
This has been going on for over 4 years now. Why is it taking so long?
I personally don't think anything will come of it.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 09-02-20, 11:07AM
The wheels of justice turn exceedingly slow, I can personally vouch for that.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: his scots tie on 09-02-20, 01:58PM
The next hearing in an email I had from Leigh Day is not until October, but they seem very upbeat of a positive outcome regarding this.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: T2019sackallmanagers on 09-02-20, 02:36PM
That will be 5 years by then🙈 probably another 5 to get the actual outcome from it all.
Thanks for the update anyways👍👍
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: gomezz on 09-02-20, 03:28PM
"The wheels of justice turn exceedingly slow, I can personally vouch for that."

Just look at Jarndyce v Jarndyce!   :o
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 02-04-20, 03:49PM
Just received email from Leigh Day.
Title of it says a lot "TESCO SCORES YOUR JOB AS MORE DEMANDING THAN JOBS IN THE DC".
In comparison made by Tesco i score 456pts in 2014 vs 181pts  of asembly/picker in DC.(higher means better).

" Tesco argues that we can’t rely on this document to show your work is rated as equal to male DC workers. We disagree. A 7 day hearing will take place in October to decide whether we can rely on this evaluation. Please let us know if you would be interested in attending the October hearing to hear Tesco’s top executives give evidence on the scoring that they completed in 2014. 

If we can rely on the scoring we wouldn’t need an expert to show that the jobs evaluated are of equal value; Tesco will have done that for us. This would speed up the resolution of these claims. Even if we cannot rely on it, it is good evidence that store roles are of equal value to those in the DC."

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: adamlad on 02-04-20, 04:09PM
I had that email to.  What is your role if u don't mind me asking. I'm a checkout t support.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 02-04-20, 07:59PM
Comparison was made while i was a team leader, nights.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: UnhappyMan on 03-04-20, 11:20PM
[admin]Deleted, off topic.[/admin]
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 07-10-20, 10:03AM
https://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2020/10/latest-tesco-equal-pay-hearing-could-see-payouts-years-earlier-than-expected/ (https://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2020/10/latest-tesco-equal-pay-hearing-could-see-payouts-years-earlier-than-expected/)

QuoteThe claimants â€" represented by law firm Leigh Day â€" allege this study developed by Tesco’s own Reward Managers in 2014 found that 22 hourly-paid store roles were equivalent to higher-paid distribution centre roles.

...........

“This is a highly unusual scenario where Tesco is now backpedalling and criticising its own study,” Leigh Day employment solicitor Lara Kennedy said.

A blast(report) from the past certainly appears to be a Tesco OOOPS moment.  :-[
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 17-01-21, 12:18PM
https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/equal-pay-tesco-ordered-to-disclose-warehouse-staff-pay-information/ (https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/equal-pay-tesco-ordered-to-disclose-warehouse-staff-pay-information/)

QuoteOn Wednesday (13 January), the EAT dismissed an appeal the supermarket giant bought against an earlier ruling by an employment tribunal, which said Tesco must hand over the information it holds concerning warehouse workers’ activities, job descriptions and rates of pay.

Another step forward  :)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: BarryZola on 17-01-21, 06:50PM
That is good.

However, I think it was a big blow a few months back when it was ruled that Tesco's own report saying that roles in store were as valuable as roles in distribution couldn't be used in court. That could have been a massive gamechanger and saved a lot of time in court. As it is, I think things will just continue to be dragged through the courts for years and years with everything getting appealed and appealed again, until ultimately us employees lose the case.

How are the ASDA employees getting on all these years later? Still not got a penny have they?

Fingers crossed though as this pandemic has really brought to light some of the s**t store employees have to face on a day to day basis along with their manual work of actually getting things to the shop floor and onto the shelf or whatever other things staff have to do.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Batmanjo on 18-01-21, 11:22AM
On the 11th Jan 2021 The President of the employment tribunal upheld the decision for Tesco to provide the documents needed for Leigh Day and now only have the Court of appeal left to go to directly. There is a zoom meeting for Leigh Day claimants Feb 4th 2021 if they wish to put any questions forward and they will explain in detail what is going on.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 18-01-21, 11:24PM
Still long way. Asda is ahead with claim. They won 1 stage of 3.
Need to win all 3 to be successful.

1. Are the roles comparable?
2. If the roles are comparable, are they of equal value?
3. If they are of equal value, is there a reason other than sex discrimination that means the roles should not be paid equally?

Example of equal pay claim from past is the one from Glasgow. It took 12 years only.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: doneone on 26-03-21, 11:45AM
Asda workers win pay claim in supreme court of appeal.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: FarmerFred on 26-03-21, 11:55AM
Erm... refer to the post above.... they have only won the first step. The supreme Court has ruled that the roles can be compared.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56534988
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: OpShunned on 27-03-21, 02:36PM
Long way to go guys and gals but I hope you get summat  :)

Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Paupers wage on 27-03-21, 03:01PM
Unfortunately as with every big Goliath in business, Tesco a major employer, the outcome will not entail any big payouts to upset the status quote, the government, the ruling elite wouldn't wish to upset big players who keep the lower working class employed, don't be holding your breath!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: VladPutin on 27-03-21, 03:51PM
Quote from: Nomad on 09-02-20, 11:07AM
The wheels of justice turn exceedingly slow, I can personally vouch for that.

Of course they do; lawyers get paid by the hour. ;)
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 27-03-21, 09:01PM
It's the courts slowing all down. You can have case ready but when you must wait 6 moonths for slot in the court then no wonder all takes years.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: blueberet on 27-03-21, 09:04PM
Do you need to be signed up with Leigh day to make a claim or can you make your own claim once there is an outcome?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom dontdontHewitt/
Post by: chris9997 on 28-03-21, 02:00AM
Don't hold your breath folks,  firstly it could cost tesco billions in back pay so they will put the biggest and best lawyers in there legal costs of 10s of millions will not faze them as the claim is very shakey
Tesco claim distribution and stores are two seperate businesses within the tesco group ((Tesco stores Ltd and Tesco Distribution Ltd) therefore according to tesco same rules do not apply.
When the claim looks doomed Leigh Day will back out and you will here no more about the claim as happened with the claim they started for Sunday pay/, double time.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 28-03-21, 09:19AM
Quote from: blueberet on 27-03-21, 09:04PM
Do you need to be signed up with Leigh day to make a claim or can you make your own claim once there is an outcome?

No you can do it yourself, what you wont get is any part of a payout that Leigh Day secure but you will benefit from whatever remedy is made after the court case as long of course we win it.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Tom Hardy on 28-03-21, 11:08AM
If it will cost the industry Billions then don't be surprised when there is mass job losses as a result
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: tescopleb on 28-03-21, 02:44PM
Why all the negativity, yes OK I know there are lot of vested interests here but Tosco and their ilk have only got themselves to blame for deliberately keeping wages in the retail sector down. Cynically taking advantage of the fact that traditionally most people in retail have been women and therefore considered an easy target, less likely then the men in the depots to take strike action. Unfortunately for Tosco society changes and those self same women are more likely to be better educated and as Useless has discovered more likely to stand up for themselves than in the past This is about recognizing that both jobs are of equal worth and that does put a very different perspective on things.
In reality this isn't going to cost tosco that much money, it's just money they don't WANT to pay out.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 28-03-21, 04:38PM
 :thumbup: well said tescopleb  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom dontdontHewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 28-03-21, 07:08PM
Quote from: chris9997 on 28-03-21, 02:00AM
Don't hold your breath folks,  firstly it could cost Tesco billions in back pay so they will put the biggest and best lawyers in there legal costs of 10s of millions will not faze them as the claim is very shaky
Tesco claim distribution and stores are two separate businesses within the Tesco group ((Tesco stores Ltd and Tesco Distribution Ltd) therefore according to Tesco same rules do not apply.
When the claim looks doomed Leigh Day will back out and you will hear no more about the claim as happened with the claim they started for Sunday pay/double time.

Regarding Sunday pay, double time rates.  Any legal action had no chances to be successful because of the national legislation.  UK employees rights are one of the worst amongst developed and developing countries. Companies like Tesco know that and will use it against own employees.
Equal pay is right thing to do in my opinion but I would preferably see experience/ performance related pay.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: londoner83 on 29-03-21, 09:38AM
Personally think performance related pay is the way too go to....

But back to the claim, Still think it could take the best part of the decade before even if employees were successful, that they would actually recieve any compensation. Many employees would not doubt have left and be "untraceable" to the company.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 29-03-21, 10:31AM
Quote from: Tom Hardy on 28-03-21, 11:08AM
If it will cost the industry Billions then don't be surprised when there is mass job losses as a result

It will be hard for them to have less workers when we are pared to the bone as it is.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: NightAndDay on 29-03-21, 11:23AM
Plenty of fat to be cut from head office.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: londoner83 on 29-03-21, 11:51AM
Still management to cut from large stores.....
Can run a Sunday with 2-3 managers, yet even after structure change will still have 8 on a quieter mid week day.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 29-03-21, 11:53PM
Quote from: londoner83 on 29-03-21, 09:38AM
Personally think performance related pay is the way too go to....

But back to the claim, Still think it could take the best part of the decade before even if employees were successful, that they would actually recieve any compensation. Many employees would not doubt have left and be "untraceable" to the company.

It looks like it would be another 10 years. If I remember right it took 12 years for Birmingham Council workers to win theirs case.
Sad part of our case is that some might be already dead when case will be settled.
But for some it might be nice lump sum for 15 years of work.
Just need to wait.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 30-03-21, 10:16AM
In the event of settlement in employees' favour and the prior demise of some employees  (who have worked during the relevant period)  is it not executors/solicitors job to collect all monies owing to the deceases estate ?
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: chris9997 on 30-03-21, 12:06PM
Quote from: lordadmiral on 28-03-21, 07:08PM
Quote from: chris9997 on 28-03-21, 02:00AM
Don't hold your breath folks,  firstly it could cost Tesco billions in back pay so they will put the biggest and best lawyers in there legal costs of 10s of millions will not faze them as the claim is very shaky
Tesco claim distribution and stores are two separate businesses within the Tesco group ((Tesco stores Ltd and Tesco Distribution Ltd) therefore according to Tesco same rules do not apply.
When the claim looks doomed Leigh Day will back out and you will hear no more about the claim as happened with the claim they started for Sunday pay/double time.

Regarding Sunday pay, double time rates.  Any legal action had no chances to be successful because of the national legislation.  UK employees rights are one of the worst amongst developed and developing countries. Companies like Tesco know that and will use it against own employees.
Equal pay is right thing to do in my opinion but I would preferably see experience/ performance related pay.
when usdaw negotiated for equal pay for Sunday's/ bank holidays and overtime it was assumed everyone would go up to the double time/ time and half instead everyone was down to the lower rate. Thankyou usdaw .
I have been with the company a number of years and usdaw have not got us anything we would not of got anyway.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 30-03-21, 01:04PM
Usdaw have helped me immeasurably over the years, What do you think we would have without unions. To answer that just look to America where you can be sacked for wearing the wrong coloured shirt to work on dress down friday.

It may not be the most militant but its all we have if you feel its not worth having then stop your membership no one forces you to be in it.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: dotnochance on 30-03-21, 01:50PM
No, we have all the rights we enjoy today from past unions! the  usless worthless ones we have now are a waste of time, we cant even strike.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: NightAndDay on 30-03-21, 02:34PM
Quote from: forrestgimp on 30-03-21, 01:04PM
Usdaw have helped me immeasurably over the years, What do you think we would have without unions. To answer that just look to America where you can be sacked for wearing the wrong coloured shirt to work on dress down friday.

It may not be the most militant but its all we have if you feel its not worth having then stop your membership no one forces you to be in it.

Or petition to have USDAW replaced as the recognised union with one that is actually anti-corporate. Something like the RMT for the train companies, we need one that would love to see Tesco go bankrupt.

And unlike the rail companies, Tesco isn't a monopoly, strike action would mean more custom for their competitors.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 30-03-21, 03:23PM
Let us not turn yet another topic into a union bashing thread, deserve or not.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 04-06-21, 08:48AM
Tesco staff win legal argument in equal pay fight (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57343892)

QuoteTesco, the UK's biggest retailer, and law firm Leigh Day, acting on behalf of the workers, sought clarification from the Court of Justice of the European Union.

They asked the court to rule on a specific aspect of European law - whether the so-called "single source" test applies to businesses in the UK.

Under EU law, a worker can be compared with somebody working in a different establishment if a "single source" has the power to correct the difference in pay.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 04-06-21, 08:22PM
Its looking good but it must be grating the distribution workers who like to feel superior because we all know putting shopping onto a cage is completely different to taking it off, oh wait.......
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 05-06-21, 10:34AM
Yep, another small but strong step in a long long road.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Depressed on 05-06-21, 12:25PM
Is it for just women then? Because what about the men? Do we get this equal pay the ?Especially men/ woman who work nights as I feel this is more of a representative of distribution work to shop floor work
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 05-06-21, 02:48PM
QuoteTesco workers, mostly women, have argued that they failed to receive equal pay for work of equal value with colleagues in its distribution centres who are mostly men.

Mostly = not all.

It is an equal pay claim, not gender based claim.

Maybe some equalizing of pay, but you'll need a lot of patience.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: T2019sackallmanagers on 06-06-21, 03:27PM
Well this equal pay claim has been going since 2014, so don't be surprised if it'll take another 7 years to find a resolution!
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: q2000 on 06-06-21, 06:49PM
I wonder if the checkout / floor staff and floor workers are ok to wear armbands to track breaks / toilet breaks. They are definitely different jobs. I worked over decade in Tesco and wouldn't want to be treated like distribution centres.

Anyway watch what happens next if staff do win. More automation / more changes to contracts and more job cuts. Give with one hand take with other.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 06-06-21, 09:43PM
Quote"More automation / more changes to contracts and more job cuts. Give with one hand take with other."

It was always thus, and as it shall always be.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: forrestgimp on 06-06-21, 09:45PM
Quote from: q2000 on 06-06-21, 06:49PM
I wonder if the checkout / floor staff and floor workers are ok to wear armbands to track breaks / toilet breaks. They are definitely different jobs.

You are mixing up terms and conditions with job roles, the jobs are the same but in reverse but if you lot have to put up with the tracking of movements you only have yourselves to blame. Say no and strike while its being discussed.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: tescopleb on 06-06-21, 10:07PM
Let's not lose sight of the fact that it's about recognising that these are jobs of equal worth.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: alf on 06-06-21, 10:29PM
Parasites still at it.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Carparkpothole on 08-06-21, 09:08PM
All distribution centres are struggling to recruit now, I've heard that there are way more leaving  than applications.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lol its me on 08-06-21, 09:30PM
Quote from: q2000 on 06-06-21, 06:49PM
I wonder if the checkout / floor staff and floor workers are ok to wear armbands to track breaks / toilet breaks. They are definitely different jobs. I worked over decade in Tesco and wouldn't want to be treated like distribution centres.

Anyway watch what happens next if staff do win. More automation / more changes to contracts and more job cuts. Give with one hand take with other.
Yeah its called working in dotcom as a  picker, your every second of the day is tracked and monitored
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: oldfashionedplayer on 09-06-21, 09:00AM
or working on nights with some management that don't know how to keep their nose out... stop for 2 seconds to do something "why you doing that", check delivery timer - "why you on your phone", not as much as distribution with a strap on you sure but we just get it from them without the need of a band on our arms lol. its verbal :P
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: T2019sackallmanagers on 09-06-21, 09:14AM
[mod]Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).[/mod]

Totally agree! I think prison is a better place to be than Tesco nights. Regularly Magor DC staff would work in our store during heavy snow, let's just say they were surprisingly slow and couldn't believe how hard store night staff work for so little pay in comparison!

[admin]Considering what occurred in Auschwitz I think it unsuitable to use it in the way you did. Post edited. [/admin]
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: lordadmiral on 11-06-21, 07:08AM
Quote from: Carparkpothole on 08-06-21, 09:08PM
All distribution centres are struggling to recruit now, I've heard that there are way more leaving  than applications.

Been told that something like 80 from avonmouth moved to lidl to get 2 pound more. Another pay war between warehouses to keep employees in.
Title: Re: Equal Pay/Leigh Day /Tom Hewitt/
Post by: Nomad on 11-06-21, 11:26AM
https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/tesco-employee-told-thats-just-24289279 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/tesco-employee-told-thats-just-24289279)

Some interesting snippets.

Quote"Managers were expected to work all hours with no overtime. In theory, we could have raised both issues with Usdaw, the workers union, but we all knew it was about as much use back then as a wet paper bag."

She escalated the case with unions but this also fell through.

"In the 1990s, we were able to vote on pay rises. But then the union did a deal with Tesco and all votes on pay rises stopped.

"It was a prime example of the union benefiting the company rather than the workers they represented."