Hello. Four weeks ago today, I pinned up a holiday request form on our staff notice board for my manager to look at upon her return from her holidays, which would have been three days later. Just over a week later, I had a week off and upon my return I reminded her about the form. She replied, rather crossly, that she had not had time to look at it. Fast forward to today when I reminded her again about the form, she said that one of the two days I want was fine but the other was not and I shouldn't have booked anything without her say so. She also claims to have told me this before when I reminded her about it, I am pretty certain that she did not and said this to her. I have said to her that it would be really helpful to have a calendar that we could all mark our holidays down on because we can't all play at guessing which days are free, especially when she does not get back to us. I've told her that because it's taken her so long to get back to me, I'm entitled to it and she is getting cross with me. Any ideas on how to handle this please? I work hard there, do a lot, put up with a lot, never go sick, am never late, just like most of you guys do, I don't want a battle on my hands all the time.
You're stuffed! Unless you have a witness to your conversation when she said she hadn't had a chance to look at it! you actually need to hand the form to your manager, and if they then don't get back to you within seven days you can assume the holiday is yours. Other option to book it at the holiday planning meeting and get request signed and dated. So therefore you've no recourse unfortunately.
Mind you, you could always bluff it out, as you should have holiday booking meetings, whereby she holds the diary, so you can see what dates are available?
Thanks for the reply. She's not denying receiving the form, she admits that she's got it and that she hasn't given it back. Both myself and the manager are part time, so our paths don't cross very often, this notice board is what we all use when we need to fill in a holiday or any other form and she pins them back there afterwards. I can't remember the last time that I had a holiday review. I don't want to be awkward, I'll co operate whenever I can but I really don't think this is fair.
What is the time scale from her saying she had it...to getting back yo you? More than seven days?
Hmm...for many reasons this accepted practice of communication for everything, via the notice board, is far from acceptable. Forms being filled in for differing things, are any including addresses or other personal data e.g. Employee number, contracts to sign etc..
I personally would never put my holiday request on full view. What's not to say another dept colleague sees it, and also intends to request the same week?? They'll get in there first with their own request pretty sharpish.
Yes, it's more than seven days since we had that conversation, it was last Wednesday, so it's been nine days. Regarding the forms, anything personal is usually put in a sealed envelope, I can't recall ever seeing a contract on view. I work in the PFS, if that makes a difference. She picked up that form 25 days ago and has not done a thing about it. This is the same manager who forgot to give me and two others our Christmas vouchers and it was only when I remembered them and made a fuss that they were given out. This is the manager who when asked previously about holidays by another colleague, spoke to the colleague and then said "now you can get off my case."
No dept is different, if personal information is on view that shouldn't be, then it's against data protection and Tesco policies. Sealed envelopes are no guarantee, anything data sensitive should be handed to you personally.
You could try the seven day rule, and no holiday planning meeting, but how far do you want to push it?
I'm quite prepared to push it, I don't like trouble but she should manage. If she can't be bothered, then don't be a manager.
Then I'd go for it! If she tries the must hand to manager route, you can highlight the accepted practice of placing on notice board, which has been instigated and utilised by herself and the rest of the team for a number of years. Good luck :thumbup:
Thank you, She's not going to mess up my plans, although this virus probably will. She has a duty to get back to me in a timely manor, which she hasn't done, time off is very important to all of us. In any case, what's the worst that can happen? Nothing I do or don't do affects my chances of a pay rise, bonus or promotion and I'm not interested in childish service superstar awards. Thanks for your thoughts lucgeo.
Holiday booking window opened on 1st April, does so every year. 75% of your hols should be before end of October. I have known of people kick off because they have been refused birthday off in March but they have waited until after Christmas to book it. Some people fight the system, I get that it can be hard to plan ahead but with so many people in the company if we don't plan we stand the chance of being refused as other have booked before us.
On the back of that, there is a section on the holiday form for the manager to put the date they received the form. They then have to put the date colleague informed. They have to sign against both dates too. If it's a blatant lie that has been signed for this is totally not acceptable.
There is a process to follow, on both sides. If it's holidays you desperately need it's a bit late in the booking period to be requesting but without this crisis we are in we should be doing annual holiday meetings to mop up outstanding holidays. We are not in normal times, your manager is wrong in the way they have done this but I can also see that during such a busy crisis period they may not see it as priority. It is still a priority task as holidays do need to be managed, they still need to be taken, they still need to be booked. We can't come to the end of this with huge numbers of people owed full annual holidays in a very short space of time.
These two days off are for October, so we have seven months to go. One is okay, the other she's saying no to, it seems harsh and unnecessary. Anything could happen between now and then, people leave all the time in our place. The manager has not even return the form to me yet, I just reminded her about it Friday and she told me verbally no. I don't mind doing a shift swap if I can, I've done it before but I dislike her whole attitude.
You can book your holiday anytime for the following year, you don't need to wait for the window to open. Indeed, a lot of mangers welcome early bookings, it helps all round!
Think the concern here is that the manager runs the dept by notes or word of mouth, rather than following correct procedure, and then gets narky if pulled up for it!
Does a manager telling me rather than not giving forms back count?? because I gave my form in on Monday and I was told I couldn't have certain dates but was not given a form back and now I'm on holiday so by time I get back it would have been longer than 7 days.
Your supposed to get your form back, verbal isn't enough proof, could be just denied later, process is that you give the form in and then 7 days to get back to you, ideally wait 8/9 if they ain't told you then ask for the form back and always make sure you've taken a photo and ideally had someone witness you giving it in.
They've had a chance to get back to you before your holidays and should know you would be on holiday so if they challenge it just say you had given them enough notice, your highly likely to get it in your favour, just inform them after your holiday (ideally a day or 2 later) that you want the form back and any that were refused just inform them due to out of process they need to amend it, if they have a problem and try anything then just mention the holiday policy act (updated Feb 2020) should they want to challenge you on it.
where can i see the holiday policy?
found it
"Stores
Fill in the annual holiday request form, found on Our Tesco, and give this to your manager. Your manager will have seven days to let you know whether your holiday request has been authorised or not.
If your holiday request cannot be authorised, your manager will explain why this is and whether there are any alternative options such as shift swaps, using personal day or bank holiday entitlement or unpaid leave.
If you have not had a response in seven days, you can assume your request has been authorised."
Unfortunately does not mention actually giving the form back, just "your manager will have seven days to let you know" so i guess verbal would count?
" give this to your manager " , so you're also out of policy !!!
Quote from: Welshie on 30-03-20, 12:58PM
" give this to your manager " , so you're also out of policy !!!
well i never gave it to the trolley guy :D
i gave it to MY manager
No you pinned it to a board , I'm just saying that it would be 7 days from your manager got the form , so if you dont hand it to your manager you dont have an exact time of when they got the form . If it's a good manager that you trust it shouldn't be an issue but there are obviously trust issues with this manager .
That was the original post not me 😂
Thanks for the replies. This situation is still rumbling on. I still have not received the form back. The manager should have picked it up the day after I pinned it to the board, as that was her next shift in. It was a couple of weeks after that, that I asked her about it and received a brusque reply that she was busy and hadn't had time to deal with it. Then the I mentioned it again, the same day that I started this thread and was told that one of the two days was okay but the other one wasn't and I still don't know which one is which. I've now left the manager a message asking for the form back and I've also asked for a calendar so that we can all see which dates are free and which are taken. I don't think this is right at all and if I get more grief over it, I'll ask to see the manager and/or HR. I usually only see the manager once a week, so it can make planning holidays hard and she never wants to discuss these things, the response from her is abrupt and rude.
Hi my store manager was on holiday i worked 7 days he questioned me saying i had 27hrs overtime that week which is 2 days 15.00 plus sunday is put as overtine another 7 hours plus each day i was not leaving on time due to supporting the staff and store has was the worst week people panic buying which over the week was 6hrs its hrs that i have worked i never clocked in or out but cctv can see that im so angry so i have sent form to payroll to remove the hours im not that desperate
Quote from: Scruff on 30-03-20, 02:09PM
That was the original post not me 😂
Sorry , my bad x
So I got the form back today. The manager has written on it a date of 25/2/20, next to the manager request received line. I took it to the store manager who I don't trust much and he suggests that the three of us have a meeting to discuss it. This was supposed to have happened this afternoon but didn't. He talked about a compromise of shift swap etc, which would be okay but the manager has broken the rules, as far as I can tell. The SM did however agree that this took a very long time to get back to me. I really could do without this hassle. This is one day, in six months time and I only work a six hour shift on that day. It's the manager's attitude, I struggle with, I recall I almost missed out on my Christmas vouchers because she didn't give them to me and I forgot about them till a few weeks later. If anyone has any thoughts about what I should say in the meeting, I'd be most grateful to hear them. Thank you
So if the manager has the date received as written 25/2/20, and failed to respond within the seven days, the request is granted. Them's the rules.
The fact the date is not for another six months, gives the manager plenty of notice to get that shift covered, by way of overtime.
A shift swap is a fair request, but...the onus should be on the manager to arrange this, not you, and then only if you are willing to the compromise and the shift swap is an acceptable alternative day and time to you.
The ball is well and truly in your court.
As long as it's been 7 days with no reply then the holidays are yours
Thank you for your replies. If I ever get this meeting I will state this fact plainly. What a flaming mess it all is.
My store manager always changes our holidays and expects us to work 6 days he has his holidays and 2 days off a week my colleague wont say no and does it and then moans about it i told her to speak up she wont im worried for her well being she complains her legs hurt not sure what to do other colleagues take their holidays and days off shes ment to be off next 2 weeks holiday and she will work but complains to the colleagues not the manager
Quote from: Scruff on 30-03-20, 12:55PM
found it
"Stores
Fill in the annual holiday request form, found on Our Tesco, and give this to your manager. Your manager will have seven days to let you know whether your holiday request has been authorised or not.
If your holiday request cannot be authorised, your manager will explain why this is and whether there are any alternative options such as shift swaps, using personal day or bank holiday entitlement or unpaid leave.
If you have not had a response in seven days, you can assume your request has been authorised."
Where is this found ?
What's the deal with the 7 days being while am is on holiday/sick ? I assume no different ?
If any member of MM is on holiday or off sick then their work and responsibilities are delegated to either a fellow member of MM or stand in, it is the companies problem not yours.
Thought it would be something like that.
Am I screwed that nobody signed it the day I handed it in though ? It's been on the wall in the office since 25/1 untouched.
As long as you've handed it to them personally, it's up to then to fill it in afterwards, make a note that you handed it to them on such and such date, of you get it back that they received it say today. And then gave back, then you grievance it, it's been past 7 days though so I'd ask for your holiday form back and let them know "due to it being past 7 days, all holidays I've put in will be automatically authorised due to the holiday policy" 😂
No, it was only a shift leader on at the time, so I filled the form in, dated it, and put it on the clipboard on the wall where it couldn't be missed.
Sorry this will be no help to you now but in future if you can't hand it to your manager, send them a txt to say you've left it for them because if they acknowledge the txt then you have proof they know you have requested holidays .
What a sad company this has become. Won't be long before one has to submit a holiday request in an envelope with your own personal wax seal across the flap, signed, dated and witnessed by two independent people. A copy posted to yourself.
Will go online at some point. Some stores have already. Work & Pay is on the way but when it first launches the holiday booking is staying as it is. Once system settled the holiday booking will go online too. Think if it had not been for COVID it would have rolled out by now. All salaried colleagues and some trial stores are on the system now. Glitches has been things like premium pay. Holidays will go to booking by the hour, rather than by the day like now.
And those not on internet, or those unwilling to or not competent on it ?
The company I now work for allows you to e-mail a holiday request to your line manager, and a paper form staff can fill in and hand to a manager, its up to each person what method they use, I did ask when starting why two systems were in place, reply "Some people prefer the older pen and paper approach and we are not going to force them to use e-mails just to book a week off"
Seems a perfectly sensible approach and one Tesco should bring in when the new online holiday booking system comes out, however knowing Tesco as I do there is little chance of a common sense approach. Back in 2019 each express group had someone going round stores offering free training on computers and smart phones etc so people would be ready for the move to online systems for holidays etc, sadly it did not really work well in practice as most store managers were not happy about there staff been taken off duty for a couple of hours to do the training and often failed to support it.
Realistically how many people will that affect though. Given that training etc is signed off online. No issues even with a few of the grannies on the tills they all pick it up quick enough.
It's just catching up with other companies , in other jobs I don't think I've filled in a physical holiday form in 10 years or more?
There are still people who refuse or are unable to use computers to do online training, in my last shop we had a couple who flat out refused and a manager had to sit in there and control the pc while asking the staff member to read and answer questions. Without going into the details we also had a young man who had learning disabilities that made it hard for him to use computers and it was agreed he could do his training in this way as a reasonable adjustment.
Quote from: Nomad on 07-02-21, 12:13PM
And those not on internet, or those unwilling to or not competent on it ?
Mate i have not had a payslip since it went inhouse, I forgot my password because I couldnt use one of the last 24 (seriously what is that all about i struggle to remember my name never mind the last 24 passwords) I made one up and promptly forgot it 2 seconds later.
Upshot is a manager told me they did a request for me because I cant do one myself (why not its my account, my password and my payslip but I have to get a manager to do a forgotten password request then they give me my password, thats nice now 2 people know it incase I forget it I assume) this never materialised and so I am passwordless and payslipless.
bit of a joke really.
Quote from: Nomad on 07-02-21, 08:28AM
What a sad company this has become. Won't be long before one has to submit a holiday request in an envelope with your own personal wax seal across the flap, signed, dated and witnessed by two independent people. A copy posted to yourself.
Lolled at that one!
It seems odd to be discussing online the issues with more work related things going online
The biggest issue with the move online is the process to get new passwords for people that constantly forget theirs.
Quote from: Redshoes on 08-02-21, 07:19AM
It seems odd to be discussing online the issues with more work related things going online
It would be but for the fact that some of us can grasp the problems that it creates for some who are not as technically minded as others.
Quote from: londoner83 on 08-02-21, 08:12AM
The biggest issue with the move online is the process to get new passwords for people that constantly forget theirs.
I’m on my fifth password, I don’t forget them, they “expire†or so it states when I try to log on to my account after not using it for a time.
My last but one worked for months then suddenly wouldn’t work, my manager enquired why and it turned out I hadn’t used a special character. Seems someone decided that passwords had to include a capital letter; lower case letter; a number
and a special character where it once wasn’t required just suggested.
OneLogin passwords expire every 90 days and you can't use the previous 24... I can remember Marathon bars just before they were re-branded to Snickers but I'll be damned if I can remember the past 24 passwords...! :D
You have to send a form off on Comms to request a password reset then it's on User Reports on Desktop (as an Excel file) but it's not fool proof; I've helped two colleagues reset theirs and the 'new' temporary one didn't work.
If you set up your phone number on My Account you can be sent a one time passcode to regain access-that *seems* to work better.
so can i set up my phone number and reset my account password myself? I mean they tell you not to share passwords woth others and yet force you to allow managers to be given access and the new password when you need it reset.
might email them and complain about cyber security see what happens.
If you search online for To5co My Account then, yes, you can negate the need for others to see your temporary password :thumbup:.
Quote from: forrestgimp on 08-02-21, 10:28PM
so can i set up my phone number and reset my account password myself? I mean they tell you not to share passwords woth others and yet force you to allow managers to be given access and the new password when you need it reset.
might email them and complain about cyber security see what happens.
The temporary password can only be used to change the password to something of your own choosing and which you obviously don't share with anyone else. The temporary password is ephemeral and useless once you have made the password change it enforces.
Quote from: Scruff on 30-03-20, 12:40PM
where can i see the holiday policy?
https://colleague-help.ourtesco.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001330786-Holiday-for-colleagues-on-the-Work-Pay-Payroll-System-Full-Policy-and-Supporting-Documents
Quote from: whatajoke2019 on 08-02-21, 10:08PM
OneLogin passwords expire every 90 days and you can't use the previous 24... I can remember Marathon bars just before they were re-branded to Snickers but I'll be damned if I can remember the past 24 passwords...! :D
You have to send a form off on Comms to request a password reset then it's on User Reports on Desktop (as an Excel file) but it's not fool proof; I've helped two colleagues reset theirs and the 'new' temporary one didn't work.
If you set up your phone number on My Account you can be sent a one time passcode to regain access-that *seems* to work better.
I use a number. Every time I have to rest password I just go up a number. You can have number at beginning or at end, anywhere in fact so can be moved. You also need a character, that can change too. You just need to change one letter, number or character for a new password. It does not have to be the whole thing. If you used letters and as a cap and just went up the alphabet you have 26 passwords.
Quote from: Halftone84 on 06-02-21, 10:59PM
No, it was only a shift leader on at the time, so I filled the form in, dated it, and put it on the clipboard on the wall where it couldn't be missed.
In the past so many staff have say they booked holiday and had left form on notice board,
You need to make sure you hand it to the manager personally , stops all confusion .
Quote from: lucgeo on 20-03-20, 01:34PM
No dept is different, if personal information is on view that shouldn't be, then it's against data protection and Tesco policies. Sealed envelopes are no guarantee, anything data sensitive should be handed to you personally.
You could try the seven day rule, and no holiday planning meeting, but how far do you want to push it?
Tesco doesn't have any care for personal data you find it all over the place.
I also have a holiday argument with my manager. I had holiday booked, and I asked to extend it with unpaid leave as I had a funeral to attend. No one said this wasn't possible. Now I discover that instead of unpaid leave, an important holiday I booked off a year and a half in advance has been cancelled without talking to me, and used on the funeral day instead. I booked it so long ago that I have the signed paperwork to prove it was authorised more than a year ago. Are we not entitled to ask for unpaid leave? My previous manager told me in a wellness meeting that I was able to request unpaid leave, and no one said this was rejected, or discussed any other way of getting leave. I cannot cancel the holiday that is so important that I booked it a year and a half in advance! It feels like everything is an argument when it comes to Tesco.
You should be entitled to bereavement leave for a funeral. At least that's what I give to my team whenever they have a funeral to attend
You should be getting bereavement leave 5 days pro rata is what they will pay, however there's no rule of amount of time you can have off, it's just a unpaid after that as they "understand it's a hard time".
Your holiday shouldn't of been cancelled if you wanted to take it, they should of just put you down as bereavement after it and got you to keep in contact.
If you haven't taken the leave yet and it's about to be there then take it as you had it on your form, and raise a complaint either before or after, you can always use the fact that they've done it at a time of great distress to you, manager should be getting a hard book coming down on them for it to be honest as it's reasonable to ask for the bereavement and you've informed your manager properly on that you've already got a holiday so you'd take it afterwards.
Quote from: Cinderella on 10-02-24, 10:07PMI also have a holiday argument with my manager. I had holiday booked, and I asked to extend it with unpaid leave as I had a funeral to attend. No one said this wasn't possible. Now I discover that instead of unpaid leave, an important holiday I booked off a year and a half in advance has been cancelled without talking to me, and used on the funeral day instead. I booked it so long ago that I have the signed paperwork to prove it was authorised more than a year ago. Are we not entitled to ask for unpaid leave? My previous manager told me in a wellness meeting that I was able to request unpaid leave, and no one said this was rejected, or discussed any other way of getting leave. I cannot cancel the holiday that is so important that I booked it a year and a half in advance! It feels like everything is an argument when it comes to Tesco.
You would only be entitled to bereavement leave if the person is a close relative e.g. sibling, parent or grandparent.
Your holiday should not have been cancelled without your knowledge or permission to do so, as it is signed off as holiday and you have the signed document to prove this, it remains the status quo.
The extra day(s) extension, is a separate issue and should have been discussed with you, as to who, what relationship and whether the request was yay or nay. It still comes under the 7 day rule as if a written request whether paid or unpaid is submitted but not replied to in that time it is automatically authorised.
There is no given right to unpaid leave, as this is entirely at the manager's discretion.
Thank you for the information, everyone! I only wanted two days leave - one for the funeral, and one for the memorial I organised afterwards. They weren't family, so not someone Tesco would allow a week off for, but someone I was close to for almost half my life. It has been a significant loss, although Tesco won't recognise it as one. I always book my important days way in advance - I already have 2025 authorised and on the system.
I will use the info you've all given me when I get to speak to my manager. They also moved the hours to a longer shift, so I lost additional hours/a day through that. I only found out by reviewing my holidays online - they haven't spoken to me about this at all. I would have tried to work alternative days or planned something had they spoken to me, but I wasn't given any options. The holiday they cancelled is very important to me.
When you speak to your manager stress how close you were to the person who died and what a impact it had on you.
The days of only having bereavement leave when a strict defined set of relatives pass belongs in the past as these days step parents/brothers/sisters/cousins etc have a closer relationship with you and thus are often more important to you than for example, a absent parent you haven't seen in decades.
Tesco should treat you as you expect others to be treated. Should you only get bereavement leave if your absent dad whom you aint had contact from for decades passes or should the company allow you time to grieve if (for example) your mums live-in partner who you have known for 20 years and who helped raise you passes?
I was refused bereavement leave when my brother in law died,he and my sister were 19 years older than me so had been here all through my life. I did explain all this but was told it was only immediate family. ( parents, grandparents and siblings) this was last year so Tesco haven't changed policy on this. I had to resort to getting a sick note from my doctor!
Definitely wrong of your management doggie, brother in law are classed as allowed but for atleast 10+ years it's been anyone defined as close to you.
Always hate how they treat others but if it happened to them it'd be them off no problem, no issues whatsoever.
QuoteIs bereavement leave limited to immediate family members?
Under normal circumstances we would class immediate family as spouses, partners, parents, in-laws, siblings, children and grandparents, but we understand that not everyone has the same family situation, and therefore bereavement leave will be assessed on a case-by-case basis depending on your individual circumstances. Discuss the situation with your manager who will always take your personal circumstances into consideration. If you want time off to attend the actual funeral of a friend or relative, then please talk to your manager about it. Under normal circumstances the time off will be paid, although your manager may ask you to make up the time or change your hours or shift to accommodate it.
Apologies - unable to start a new thread.
What's the Tesco policy on more than two weeks holiday at once? I can not see in in the W&P document above. In our store it is said to be that you can have three weeks off at once every other year. Is this documented anywhere though?
Don't see what the issue is if you have enough holidays previously I've been able to do it but now it seems to have changed
Colleague help have said before on the matter that stores do and can restrict how many people are off at busy periods however there isnt a limit on how long you can have off, there isn't any ban on holiday from being taken at any time of the year or any specific day, it just becomes more restrictive at busy periods such as Christmas and Easter for amount that are off.
So your store shouldn't be blocking you from having more than 2 weeks or more than 3 or more than 5 etc, if you have 6+ weeks and you want to use them all at once and there's no one else off there's no ground for them to refuse it, it's well within your right to have it off if you do want it.
In my store it has always been said if you want more than 2 weeks holiday you have to write a letter to the store manager requesting what you want and it has to be approved by them. Don't know where this came from but it's been like that over 30 years that I know of.
You'd think there shouldn't be restrictions but there are several reasons as to why they're restricted to 2 weeks.
Apart from the obvious of other colleagues not able to book due to one person having block booked, there's also other reasons to consider. What is the colleague's sickness record, do they have an underlying condition that could be compromised due to less frequent holiday breaks?
Three week requests should be looked at as to if and how it affects the store running, how it affects the colleague with regard less holiday entitlement for their remaining holiday year entitlement. There is a ruling (not Tesco rule, which escapes me for the moment) that employees must have regular time away from the workplace for a set period of time throughout the year?
Then you've got the performance related issue...are colleagues going to be fit for work for the remaining 46 weeks without a break? Is their sickness absence going to increase?
I know that longer breaks have been allowed by stores for colleagues, as in ours who one colleague had the full 6 weeks for a once in a lifetime holiday, it was toward the end of the holiday year, and believe me they were nearly on their knees by the time it was due!