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Author Topic: Hypothetical Question  (Read 58702 times)

Nomad

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Hypothetical Question
« on: 20-05-05, 12:36AM »
Would be grateful for all your learned opinions. No wise cracks or jokes (they will be deleted), stick to the point please.


Hypothetical  ??? : if a person posts on here or on the public side a post that criticises the management and their way of doing things, and/or the way they have been treated by management.   Should they be subject to disciplinary action.

Also: In your opinion what const*tutes bringing the company into disrepute.

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It's better to be up in arms than down on your knees.

dodger

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #1 on: 20-05-05, 12:51AM »
So long as any such post if factual and can be subtantiated then how can they disciplin you for telling the truth.

 You know they say the truth hurts well it don't hurt as much as a pallet droped on your head from E level   :P  

Prehaps managment should deal with things and keep the work force happy or atleast deal with any individual on that basis as an individual on the merrets of the case,unfortunately they don't the choise to tar everyone with the same brush >:(

 They never use there discrestion personly i don't think the SM allow the mm to use any discretion :(  if they did have the grevences would never get to the stage where a grivence had to go in

To bring the company into disrepute then i belive somthing liebalis makeing the company look bad in the public eye to be disreputable

If the mm have direputable practises then they should deal with them not anyone pointing out there errors

hairy

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #2 on: 20-05-05, 02:14AM »
In a democracy, I thought we had freedom of speech. Factual criticism should not be a problem. To name names on here could be on dodgy ground in a court of law; so probably best not to.

As for 'bringing the company into disrepute'; could be applied to any criticism of the company. But if said criticism was proved to be true, then an Industrial Tribunial would find in favour of the acccuser I would think.
Under the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998 workers have the right not to be victimised for blowing the whistle on employer malpractice.

Bit of a legal minefield this one.

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bloodhound

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #3 on: 20-05-05, 08:17PM »
Observations and criticisms can be posted directly on a public site as long as the following criteria are adhered to:-
1) the individual or individuals are not directly named or are identifiable by a commonly used nickname
2) no contravention of the data protection act occurs(ie names addresses or personal information is disclosed)
3) the incidents or practices being reported are factual and no embellishments have been added for an element of drama
4) The article contains no libellous content(this is a tricky one and links directly to point 3)

These pointers are for 'public postings' like the ones we do here on VLH,because it is a site which any member of the general public can access-including the people who you are writing about.
A general rule of thumb is this; if you came across a public site and you found details about yourself on it-how would you feel and more importantly how would you react?
MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!!!!!
If a libellous posting is found and the target individual decides to act on it then it can lead to the hosting site being closed down!
So please guys and gals,when you are venting spleen on VLH try and remember that you could potentially close down the site for the benefit of a few seconds of anger!
Here endeth the lesson!

whoever said nothing is impossible never tried slamming a revolving door!
Absolutem
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billybong

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #4 on: 21-05-05, 02:55AM »
See Below ??? ??? [?][?] ;)
« Last Edit: 22-05-05, 06:43PM by billybong »

billybong

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #5 on: 21-05-05, 03:24AM »
There is not much to add except to bloodhounds 4th point I would expand upon it and say that libellous content is a matter of interpretation and could easily be construed by another to mean something entirely different from the authors original intention.
A court would need to decide the gravity of the libel.
If it could be proven that you had a guilty mind i.e. deliberately set out to libel someone and the libel caused harm, hurt or suffering then you acted guiltily when you accomplished what you intended and the court would find you guilty of libel and award the plaintiff damages.

Generally criticising the management should not provoke any disciplinary action.
A criticism is your personal view of something that you disagree with or feel is unjust.
However, you may be called to account for how you criticise. . i.e. standing in the middle of a Store or DC and yelling at a MM that they don’t have a Scooby Do how to do anything could be reason enough to require you to justify your actions.
That goes from the content to how it was delivered.
If it is considered that it was delivered disrespectfully then that alone may be considered as bringing the company into disrepute.
A simple analogy is a GA stands in the middle of a busy Store and is having a heated argument with a Manager, another Staff Member or a Customer.
The bringing the company into disrepute would be considered by the impression such a spectacle would be perceived by the general public.
Tesco would be embarrassed that its Staff were not professional enough to take the disruption away from the public gaze, it would assume that the Public would consider Tesco unfavourably in that it allowed such behaviour to be displayed in public.
Tesco pay out a fortune in advertising the friendly family Store and would be horrified when that public image is tarnished in such a disreputable way.
I have used a Store scenario simply because Tesco are very concerned about their public image and are liable to act more severely in a disciplinary case than in a DC.  


Kindest regards.
Billybong.
Exemplo Ducemus.
“I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.”


slap head

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #6 on: 25-05-05, 07:34PM »
In one of my previous employment contracts (not with Tesco's, I might add) it stated (in small print) that if woulds be deemed as gross miss-conduct to talk ill of the company.
« Last Edit: 25-05-05, 09:13PM by slap head »

billybong

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #7 on: 25-05-05, 07:57PM »
Bit slap dash methinks then slap head. LOL

Kindest regards.
Billybong.
Exemplo Ducemus.
“I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.”


slap head

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #8 on: 27-05-05, 09:12PM »
On another tangent,

How would you stand (legally) if you were to secretly recored a MM abusing you.
Let's say when we get called upstairs for A still-time infringement etc.

I ask this because a lot of us have the ability to do this with our own Mobil phones.

billybong

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #9 on: 27-05-05, 10:23PM »
I would imagine the same process would need to be considered and arguments used as currently used when the MM use CCTV to back up their cases. ;)  >:D  ;D

Kindest regards.
Billybong.
Exemplo Ducemus.
“I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.”

« Last Edit: 27-05-05, 10:40PM by billybong »

Grafter

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #10 on: 30-05-05, 02:03PM »
All of the above points are well made but on a note of caution, I would imagine Tesco's crack legal team are just biding thier time ( or am I just being paranoid ? ). All it take's, as has been mentioned already, is one slip or rant too many ...

Nomad

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #11 on: 30-05-05, 03:10PM »
Thanks to all for your views on this subject so far. As this forum is members only ( I know anyone can join ) it is not shoved into the publics face so I believe a little more freedom of speech is permissable ( but not much ).

The public notice board is a another ball game, I believe it is needed to perhaps encourage people onto the site and into the forum. But I would ask all of you to read the posts that are on there and send me or a moderator a message or Email if you feel someone has stepped over the line. I and the moderators have to pass every post, but we are human and not legal eagles so we may miss something. Thanks for your help.

Nomad ( Webmaster )
Nomad ( Forum Admin )
It's better to be up in arms than down on your knees.

  • Guest
Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #12 on: 30-05-05, 06:00PM »
A tribunal, would I believe be in favour of freedom of speech. This  is as long as the details were true.
How can anyone be punished for telling the truth ?
Also they couold not punish anyone for trying to improve conditions for themsleves and their colleagues.
What headlines that would make. Bully boy tactics used by multi billion pound company, against anyone who complains about the way that they operate.

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #13 on: 01-06-05, 04:01AM »
If you go a union web sites you find that companies are mention a lot and so are the managers not by name, but by t*tle so the above should not be a problem, checkout www.unionreps.org.uk and you will see for yourself

slap head

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #14 on: 07-06-05, 09:11PM »
I think T****S would take a very dim view of anyone that put subjects into the public domain which would or could affect their profit margins.
This is why you'll only find aliases on this or any other forum. :(  :-\
quote:
Originally posted by Big un

A tribunal, would I believe be in favour of freedom of speech. This  is as long as the details were true.
How can anyone be punished for telling the truth ?
Also they couold not punish anyone for trying to improve conditions for themsleves and their colleagues.
What headlines that would make. Bully boy tactics used by multi billion pound company, against anyone who complains about the way that they operate.


billybong

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #15 on: 08-06-05, 12:43AM »
Not so, My name is for all to see.

Kindest regards.
Billybong.
Exemplo Ducemus.
“I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.”


Dack_to_Rath

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #16 on: 08-06-05, 07:24AM »
Hay as a result of the question someone got a final written warnng in a store I know

DACK TO RATH

Death to Tescos Pit tach

billybong

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #17 on: 08-06-05, 11:15AM »
Hi Dack_to_Rath Yes I know who you are referring to, but what you need to remember is that providing your comments are both factual and true and you are not identifying private persons then you should have no concerns.
People that make their living in the public domain have rights as well but are more likely to be named.
Does your contract of employment explicitly prohibit you from making public proclamations, if not then you should have no worries.
You may have something about "Not bringing the company into disrepute."
However, what I read here they do a good job of bringing the company into disrepute on their own anyway, they don't need our help.
Keep it simple, keep it honest, keep it coming.  ;)  >:D  ;D


Kindest regards.
Billybong.
Exemplo Ducemus.
“I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.”

« Last Edit: 08-06-05, 11:18AM by billybong »

kinloss1

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #18 on: 09-06-05, 01:34AM »
I would have to say that as we live in a democratic country that allows us freedom of speech, then i can`t see a court or tribunal that would find against the person making the statement, unless names were mentioned and the allegations/comments were untrue and proven such. Good question though.

bushido

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #19 on: 09-06-05, 10:36PM »
to bring the co. into disrepute...

wouldnt they have to show that the "direputable" act had changed the publics perception....which means lower takings?

I remember one of my old union colleagues actually argued this point.
Someone was being disciplined for bringing the co. into disrepute. However, he (or she :)) showed the takings prior to and after the alleged incident. The takings for several weeks afterwards showed no detrimental affect and were in fact ahead of budget.
He (or she) won.
The co couldnt prove they had been detrimentally affected and therefore concluded it couldnt have been disreputable or something along those lines.


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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #20 on: 12-06-05, 06:51AM »
Why does the truth always hurt then, if half the customers knew what really went on behind the scenes there would be no queues at the checkouts

bloodhound

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #21 on: 12-06-05, 05:38PM »
quote:
Originally posted by antaeus11

Why does the truth always hurt then, if half the customers knew what really went on behind the scenes there would be no queues at the checkouts



And unfortunately we'd all be out of a job! :(
Like it or loathe it, the best we can do is try and change the company-the public,bless there cotton socks,don't really give two hoots what the conditions are like for the workers-they just want cheap,available goods in the stores. ;)

whoever said nothing is impossible never tried slamming a revolving door!
Absolutem
Obsoletum

carebear

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #22 on: 17-06-05, 09:23PM »
quote:
Originally posted by nomad

Would be grateful for all your learned opinions. No wise cracks or jokes (they will be deleted), stick to the point please.


Hypothetical  ??? : if a person posts on here or on the public side a post that criticises the management and their way of doing things, and/or the way they have been treated by management.   Should they be subject to disciplinary action.

Also: In your opinion what const*tutes bringing the company into disrepute.

Nomad ( Webmaster )

I have  taken a camra to work and taken pics with it and showed thouse pics to the gm and put them on to disk for him . He did`t seem botherd but the sm tould me that i was using theternig behaver and bringing the company to disrepute gross neg ect,ect untill i informed him that I was telling him and thats informing him not threternig him. I was al so tould that by telling the loaders on the shift that they must work as to there training i was insiteing them to riot and I could be saked for that

thedarkside

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #23 on: 17-06-05, 09:41PM »
If the training is as per the training departments safe system of work how can any fool in his right mind see that asking colleagues to carry out their duties as the were trained been seen as remotely like inciting to riot? I think that this person needs to review the following acts to find his relevant areas:

  1. Crime and Disorder Act 1998 1998 Chapter 37  
  2. Criminal Justice Acts 2001 to 2005 inclusive

That should keep him occupied for a while >:D
« Last Edit: 17-06-05, 09:45PM by thedarkside »

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #24 on: 17-06-05, 10:15PM »
carebear in what capacity were you telling the loaders to work as trained ?

stand up ,sit down,stand up,sit down