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Author Topic: Flexi contract and childcare  (Read 7022 times)

alf

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #25 on: 04-10-19, 08:05PM »
"Whilst colleagues will be expected to work additional hours that fall within their Availability Window, flexibility should be a two-way process. This means that colleagues can request not to work additional hours where sufficient notice is given. Colleagues should be able to make such requests even if the hours form part of the normal Availability Window. Such requests should be given proper consideration by the store and reasonable requests should be agreed where possible"

If you're giving them notice, you're golden as clearly you're fullfilling your end of the bargain by working other Saturdays.

Orangutan

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #26 on: 05-10-19, 09:57AM »
Where does that quote come from, I can't find the flexi contact policy anywhere.

That being said what constitutes a reasonable request, if I'm refusing 2 of every 4 does that eventually become unreasonable?

Redshoes

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #27 on: 05-10-19, 10:15AM »
Online
People policies
A-Z of policy
Flexible working

lucgeo

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #28 on: 05-10-19, 11:00AM »
Where does that quote come from, I can't find the flexi contact policy anywhere.

That being said what constitutes a reasonable request, if I'm refusing 2 of every 4 does that eventually become unreasonable?

If they are still doing the procedure of just writing the shifts down, without speaking to you, then you just write next to them, can do or can't do! As said, being flexible is a two way street, you're not refusing every time, and if they sat down with you to arrange the shifts, as they should, then you could state that fact. By just leaving a list, they can't complain if you write your refusal on the same list, for them to read.

I would also be questioning why the same shift is continually being put as overtime?
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Orangutan

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #29 on: 05-10-19, 11:40PM »
@Redshoes That policy is all about flexible working not the flexi contract itself, it seems that its well hidden so colleagues can't challenge their managers on it. This forum is the only place that I've found the slightest bit of information on this tesco policy.

@lucgeo The process they are taking with me is to take me to one side and say that they have put me down for these shifts and can i put my initials on the sheet for them, during this I advised them that I wasn't available one of those days and they just got me to sign the other 3. I have't got to the second pulling aside but there are no new members in the department so I assume its going to be the same for the foreseeable future.

I've managed to sneak a look at the rota for the department and everyone who isn't full time has been given overtime. Basically the department is under contracted; i.e. they need to cover 200 hours per week but have only contracted for 150 not exact numbers but you get my drift. So I'm getting the same shift as overtime since it's my only flexible shift and I assume the manager sees it as the easy way to just give the same shift out to everyone each week. Unfortunately it seems everyone is just accepting that they can just give you these OT shifts and you have to do them.

lucgeo

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #30 on: 06-10-19, 09:29AM »
If they are asking you a month in advance, then they have time to fill that Saturday night O/T shift. Again, only initial the shifts you can do, that is why they ask you to initial them, as agreement to do them. If you're working every other, then they can't say you're being inflexible, by expecting you to cover each one, is showing inflexibility, or poor management on their part, by not permanently covering that shift by way of contract.
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Redshoes

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #31 on: 06-10-19, 01:10PM »
@Redshoes That policy is all about flexible working not the flexi contract itself, it seems that its well hidden so colleagues can't challenge their managers on it. This forum is the only place that I've found the slightest bit of information on this tesco policy.

@lucgeo The process they are taking with me is to take me to one side and say that they have put me down for these shifts and can i put my initials on the sheet for them, during this I advised them that I wasn't available one of those days and they just got me to sign the other 3. I have't got to the second pulling aside but there are no new members in the department so I assume its going to be the same for the foreseeable future.

I've managed to sneak a look at the rota for the department and everyone who isn't full time has been given overtime. Basically the department is under contracted; i.e. they need to cover 200 hours per week but have only contracted for 150 not exact numbers but you get my drift. So I'm getting the same shift as overtime since it's my only flexible shift and I assume the manager sees it as the easy way to just give the same shift out to everyone each week. Unfortunately it seems everyone is just accepting that they can just give you these OT shifts and you have to do them.

Full policy is online. If you want to know the terms and conditions of a flexible workers contract it will be on your contract.

Orangutan

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #32 on: 07-10-19, 12:54AM »
This is all that is stated in my contract; The Company needs you to maintain the flexibility you have specified If you are consistently unable to work your flexible additional hours when you have been asked to, this may be considered a breach of your Contract of Employment and could result in disciplinary action up to and including dismissal

Where is the policy online that says amongst others that additional shifts should be advised at least 7 days in advance and flexibility should be a two-way process. My previous manager said that I can refuse 3 shifts but if I refuse the 4th it would result in a disciplinary. I want to read about this not about changing my current working pattern on a permanent basis.

londoner83

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #33 on: 07-10-19, 05:27AM »
To be able to dismiss you the company would have to prove to a reasonable person that you were not meeting the terms of your contract. Yes your contract does state you are a flexi worker, which should mean that with sufficient notice you are expected to work additional hours, however the crux of the issue legally is what it is expecting you to do reasonable?

If the business has a shortage of staff on a Saturday night would it not be more reasonable to expect it to recruit new employees or offer you a increase in hours in order to fill the positions; rather than constantly try and flex you up.

Is it unreasonable for someone who potentially signed a availability form up to a year ago to now have outside commitments that means they can only cover every other shift?

Like a previous poster has said all the policies are online and Usdaw reps should also be able to help you.



Redshoes

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #34 on: 07-10-19, 07:32AM »
There is a PFS full flexible working policy document online but I think you are looking for an exact sentence that relates to you. If you need to change your availability you can do so at any point and it should be done annually now anyway. You do however need to be flexible to fulfil a flexible contract role.

lucgeo

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #35 on: 07-10-19, 07:34AM »
This is all that is stated in my contract; The Company needs you to maintain the flexibility you have specified If you are consistently unable to work your flexible additional hours when you have been asked to, this may be considered a breach of your Contract of Employment and could result in disciplinary action up to and including dismissal

So going on the above paragraph, you are not "consistently" unable to work your flexible additional hours. You are working some of the requested shifts, just not every one.

Speak to your rep, about having a copy of rules, regarding Flexi contracts, notice periods etc...or 'phone the area union office for guidance. I'm unable to access the policies online anymore, but I hope another poster can point you to the specific doc. regarding the rules.
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lucgeo

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #36 on: 07-10-19, 07:49AM »
Going further on the above...

How many hours are the Saturday night shift for?
Are there other shifts that are constantly being covered, as flexi, by other colleagues on a weekly basis?

If there are, then they should be offering a vacancy to cover these shifts, if they accumulate over 7.50 hrs, and no stand alone shift is less than 3 hours.
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Shafted

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #37 on: 07-10-19, 09:34AM »
To be able to dismiss you the company would have to prove to a reasonable person that you were not meeting the terms of your contract. Yes your contract does state you are a flexi worker, which should mean that with sufficient notice you are expected to work additional hours, however the crux of the issue legally is what it is expecting you to do reasonable?

If the business has a shortage of staff on a Saturday night would it not be more reasonable to expect it to recruit new employees or offer you a increase in hours in order to fill the positions; rather than constantly try and flex you up.

Is it unreasonable for someone who potentially signed a availability form up to a year ago to now have outside commitments that means they can only cover every other shift?

Like a previous poster has said all the policies are online and Usdaw reps should also be able to help you.

Availability forms should be revisited four times a year.

Orangutan

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #38 on: 07-10-19, 05:13PM »
Going further on the above...

How many hours are the Saturday night shift for?
Are there other shifts that are constantly being covered, as flexi, by other colleagues on a weekly basis?

If there are, then they should be offering a vacancy to cover these shifts, if they accumulate over 7.50 hrs, and no stand alone shift is less than 3 hours.
So it's fine to just say that I can't do 2 out of 4 shifts without giving an explanation? What if they ask? It seems weird that with all the policy's on our tesco that the one on flexi contacts isn't.

The Saturday shifts are 4 hours, and there are other colleagues that are covering the same shift every week so definitely more than 7.5 hours. I was thinking of trying to get as many of us together and all reject the flexi overtime on the same week and see what they do.

Preacherpauly

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #39 on: 07-10-19, 05:56PM »
Going further on the above...

How many hours are the Saturday night shift for?
Are there other shifts that are constantly being covered, as flexi, by other colleagues on a weekly basis?

If there are, then they should be offering a vacancy to cover these shifts, if they accumulate over 7.50 hrs, and no stand alone shift is less than 3 hours.
So it's fine to just say that I can't do 2 out of 4 shifts without giving an explanation? What if they ask? It seems weird that with all the policy's on our tesco that the one on flexi contacts isn't.

The Saturday shifts are 4 hours, and there are other colleagues that are covering the same shift every week so definitely more than 7.5 hours. I was thinking of trying to get as many of us together and all reject the flexi overtime on the same week and see what they do.

Of course its fine. If they ask just say the weekends are the only time you get to spend together as a family and you got days out planned, you dont have to give them any more information than that.  As long as you're giving them the other 2 then it shouldnt be a problem. 

lucgeo

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #40 on: 08-10-19, 08:57AM »
Going further on the above...

How many hours are the Saturday night shift for?
Are there other shifts that are constantly being covered, as flexi, by other colleagues on a weekly basis?

If there are, then they should be offering a vacancy to cover these shifts, if they accumulate over 7.50 hrs, and no stand alone shift is less than 3 hours.
So it's fine to just say that I can't do 2 out of 4 shifts without giving an explanation? What if they ask? It seems weird that with all the policy's on our tesco that the one on flexi contacts isn't.

The Saturday shifts are 4 hours, and there are other colleagues that are covering the same shift every week so definitely more than 7.5 hours. I was thinking of trying to get as many of us together and all reject the flexi overtime on the same week and see what they do.

Softly...softly...take one step at a time, by trying to involve others into a mini revolt at this time, would serve you no purpose, it could just isolate you for a possible backlash. From personal experience, colleagues will encourage and agree, if they think they may benefit from the outcome, but suddenly become mute, when required to speak up!
Continue to only agree to the shifts you can do, don't back down, don't explain yourself, you just say "no I am unable to do that shift", and leave it at that. Should your manager insinuate any non fulfilment of contract, tell them you're interpretation of your contract would suggest you are!! Should any insinuating continue, ask for a meeting to be arranged with the manager and your union rep, to discuss this " constant harassment"

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madness

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #41 on: 08-10-19, 02:27PM »
To be able to dismiss you the company would have to prove to a reasonable person that you were not meeting the terms of your contract. Yes your contract does state you are a flexi worker, which should mean that with sufficient notice you are expected to work additional hours, however the crux of the issue legally is what it is expecting you to do reasonable?

If the business has a shortage of staff on a Saturday night would it not be more reasonable to expect it to recruit new employees or offer you a increase in hours in order to fill the positions; rather than constantly try and flex you up.

Is it unreasonable for someone who potentially signed a availability form up to a year ago to now have outside commitments that means they can only cover every other shift?

Like a previous poster has said all the policies are online and Usdaw reps should also be able to help you.

Availability forms should be revisited four times a year.
What starts to happen there is everyone declares they "can only work" 9-15 Mon-Thur

NightAndDay

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #42 on: 08-10-19, 02:31PM »
And this shows the folly of having everyone on flexi contracts, In Express this situation never happens because they don't do flexis.

Superdude09

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #43 on: 16-10-19, 11:54PM »
This really baffles me.  Are there really managers out there who do not try to work with there colleagues?
 
I have 90% of my team who can flex up, there are some that can't do it every week as they have family etc and others who want all the hours I can give them.  When the regulars can't do the shifts that's when I'll ask the people who "can" flex into the shift who will be more likely help me out because I help them get a balance.

Hell I even work every Saturday Late, do I have to? no but I do it for my department, and my team.
 
2 out of 4 Saturdays would be acceptable for me, I'd ask my other flexi to work the other two or even rotate it through the team.  End of the day colleagues have a contract to fulfil but it can't be a unfair balance, my team work for me but I also work for them. 

Teddybonkers

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #44 on: 17-10-19, 01:13PM »
I'm a little surprised that these flexi contracts haven't  been tested at an employment tribunal yet. Only a matter of time?

Cleaner1

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Re: Flexi contract and childcare
« Reply #45 on: 17-10-19, 03:50PM »
The flexi contracts is just the company trying to dodge giving employees decent T&Cs. Have seen people on 1 day flexed up to 4+ every week. They should be contracting you for the shifts you do on a regular basis end of. It depends on how the SM wants to run the place. Ours contracts everyone 1-3 shift then asks them all to flex up. Others will give you a FT contract if you want it.