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Author Topic: Whose advice can you trust in times of possible redundancy?  (Read 6877 times)

optout

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What is your experience with the advise given to you or others in times of redundancy?


Do you trust your reps advice?
Do you trust your Store Managers advice?
Who do you trust to turn to for advice?
Have you (or anybody you know) had good or bad experiences with the advice of any of the above?
If you knew somebody whose job future was uncertain, who would you point them towards for advice?
« Last Edit: 12-02-19, 09:51PM by optout »
I AM NOT A REP, BUT......

Longinthetooth

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The first and obvious thing for anyone to remember is that you have 45 days of consultation.
Use all of that time and don’t commit to anything until you’re ready and even then you can always change your mind right up to 44days 23 hrs & 59 mins

Pikachu

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My advice -

Listen carefully to EVERYTHING you are told and never agree to any changes or deals until you have had time to go and look at it and get a second opinion.

I don't feel Usdaw do enough to protect us however I would listen to what they have to say and then use it to weigh up what others say. The same with your manager and store manager. Listen to what they have to say, then google the same sort of thing and see what others have experienced from similar POV.

In the current process we know that nothing is going to change for us until week 4 so if they want a reply or commitment off you you have time to deliberate and consider your options and replies.

On a personal POV I feel like there is often the Tesco way and the right way. They aren't often the same. Independent advice - like from citizens advice, is always a good port of call.

What I would say is I would dip your toe into having a general overview of what could happen in a worst case scenario, however I wouldn't then dwell on that and start preparing for it. If it comes down to redundancy there are many stages to go through, each with many differing outcomes and scenarios and it will be almost impossible to second guess exactly what is going to happen.

DJL

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The first and obvious thing for anyone to remember is that you have 45 days of consultation.
Use all of that time and don’t commit to anything until you’re ready and even then you can always change your mind right up to 44days 23 hrs & 59 mins

That’s not quite correct I’m afraid!

Consultation period only comes into effect if a certain amount of people are affected, and given the total amount is large, the sum of that total is not!

If 19 or more colleagues are affected then 30 days, if more are affected then 45 days, but, if less than those numbers, then the consultation is based on a mutual understanding and basically prescribed the the company

DJL

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My advice -

Listen carefully to EVERYTHING you are told and never agree to any changes or deals until you have had time to go and look at it and get a second opinion.

I don't feel Usdaw do enough to protect us however I would listen to what they have to say and then use it to weigh up what others say. The same with your manager and store manager. Listen to what they have to say, then google the same sort of thing and see what others have experienced from similar POV.

In the current process we know that nothing is going to change for us until week 4 so if they want a reply or commitment off you you have time to deliberate and consider your options and replies.

On a personal POV I feel like there is often the Tesco way and the right way. They aren't often the same. Independent advice - like from citizens advice, is always a good port of call.

What I would say is I would dip your toe into having a general overview of what could happen in a worst case scenario, however I wouldn't then dwell on that and start preparing for it. If it comes down to redundancy there are many stages to go through, each with many differing outcomes and scenarios and it will be almost impossible to second guess exactly what is going to happen.

What’s POV?

NightAndDay

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POV = Point of View...

Loki

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Even if only a handful affected, anyone that may be required to move hours etc within the business are entitled to 30 days consultation. Read the policy.
Life is a monstrous demented gag. Madness is the emergency exit.
I will not reply to unsolicited PM's.

Pikachu

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You are also entitled to try out any new role or change of hours for 4 weeks before agreeing to it without it affecting your rights in claiming redundancy.

For example, if you were working 1-10 Mon/Tue/Weds and you were told the option was to either move those shifts to 7-4's or be made redundant, you could agree to the 7-4's and try them for 4 weeks and after that period you could then say you would rather take the redundancy.

Redundancy should always be a last option for the company and hopefully they will be putting plenty of options on the table to limit the amount of people that lose jobs. For example, in my store I know there are 3 individuals that are planning to leave to go to Uni in the summer. During the process it may be agreed that instead of them being given new hours it is in everyones best interest for them to depart. Some members of staff may be close to retirement and when having their one to ones could decide to take early retirement with a small redundancy payment etc...

All stores are currently on a recruitment lock down too so whilst many stores are over hours, staff are continually leaving the business for a variety of reasons (retirement, moving to a new job elsewhere, quitting for unrelated reasons, due to gross misconduct etc...) and in 2 months time it could be possible that there are jobs in the business that today aren't free. Before anyone is made redundant these positions would be offered out to people etc...

Theres also the thought that some others may decide they would rather have redundancy rather than a change of hours or drop of hours. For example I know of one person who has already said they can't manage on less than full time hours so if they were to be told they had to drop hours they would instead take redundancy. If that happened in that situation 36.5 hours become "free". Its possible that you may be told you are facing redundancy due to not being offered something, yet others who have been offered something then reject that offer and it then gets offered to you etc...

Tesco can force redundancy at the end of the day so we can't say there is no danger - and it will happen that some will lose their jobs. However before it is forced on anyone, there should be the options for others to chose to leave, for others to potentially move to other roles or to have a reduction of hours. Just because cutting hours for you may not be preferable doesn't mean that everyone in your department feels the same - and all it takes is a few people to say they want out and a bleak situation becomes less so.

This is one of the reasons why I say its good to read up on what could happen in a worst case, however also don't stress yourself out on something you can't control because there are so many variables that can change if someone gets offered something or not.

The only advice I can give at the moment would be when you are asked to fill in new availability time sheets think long and hard about what you can work. Even if you don't want to start at say 6 AM in the morning, or work until 10PM etc... if you CAN do it, put it down as the more flexible you are with what you can do the bigger the net is that you can fall into where the company wants you. On a personal point I don't want to work past 5PM really, however I will be marking every hour of every day (except Wednesday and Thursdays where I cant work) as a potential hour I can fill. Ask yourself, if the option is working a late/early you dont really want to do is a better or worse option over losing your job completely etc...

Most of all, remember that your health is most important over this. It is easy to say don't worry and panic (Im really worried myself but I'm trying to not overly stress out) but naturally you will do. At this point however we have very little say on the direction this is going, so no point in thinking of worst case, however instead look at what your options are and its sadly a waiting game until week 4.

mamofthenether

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Don't take what the company representative is telling you as gospel, do your own research into employment law and your rights.
Don't tell everyone, including your colleagues, your plans. Your All potentially vying for the same positions, and the threat of redundancy changes people, after all everyones got bills to pay and mouths to feed.
Bear in mind some managers will try and use this as a tool to get rid of the 'dead wood', regardless of points systems, there are ways and means.
Make your mind up quickly about what you want to do I. e fight for your job or take redundancy, plan accordingly and have a plan B, because nothing ever goes fully to plan.

memberx

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Can they move affected staff to unaffected department before the consultation period begind?

lucgeo

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Evenin all....bear with....

Been away extended break and arrived back in work to this fiasco and the usual " I know you're no longer a rep but....." Following questions if you all can help please...

" can people work on two different depts??"

Stock control.....is redundancy on the table?? Heat map and selection....is it criteria and do contracted staff HAVE  to fill in an availability window..

Deli.....again same question as above, also if drop in hours is it gradual drop, pay protected, or a buyout??

Canteen.....is tesco paying redundancy for TUPE'd colleagues.....is that removed if offered another job in servest in another location....if colleagues accept other location, does change of contract annul their tesco TUPE cover??

Thanks for any feedback...also my heartfelt sympathy for all colleagues facing these uncertain times  :(

Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

Munchkin

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Yes people can work on two different departments I do and have for some time.No an availability form is not compulsory for fixed hour non flexi Staff.Yes type canteen staff get tesco redundancy but I would not guarantee that in future if they transfer it may depend on their new position and any new contract's

lucgeo

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Mucho gracias for the response  :-[ :-[ :thumbup:
Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

Pikachu

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an availability form is not compulsory for fixed hour non flexi Staff.

Its not compulsory however I would say if you wanted to keep your job and as many (if not all) hours as possible, filling in an availability form if asked to is probably more of a benefit to you than not.

I'm on a non flexi contract but will be filling out an availability sheet if requested for the following reasons -

1) Having weighed up what my rough redundancy offer is, I would rather fight to keep my job than take that offer. Working a shift I don't want to do is preferable to not having a job at all.
2) I have a huge window where I can actually work, so if the window for routines change, if I have selected I can work in those times I give myself more chance of being selected for the role.
3) If I was in the managers shoes and had one member of staff show me lots of availability, one member of staff with very minimal availability and one member of staff refusing to tell me their availability then I'd be more inclined to go to the member of staff that is showing they are open to change and do what is asked.

What you should also remember is any new job hours can be taken on a trial basis by yourself for 4 week so if you are not happy with them you can then refuse them.

You don't have to give them a new availability sheet and quite possibly if you want to get the redundancy it may be more advantageous to refuse to do so, however I would say if you wanted to keep your job then filling a sheet out can not hurt you in any way.

Walker

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Stock control may face redundancy.

TUPE'd canteen staff are entitled to tesco redundancy... New canteen staff are only getting statutory redundancy which in practice means none.

Where a department such as Counters or Stock Control is facing cuts hours are going to be determined when the new heat map comes down. This will determine what vacancies are available.

All staff on these departments will effectively be competing for the new hours. They will be asked to fill out a new availability form. Then who gets any remaining hours is determined by a point system... Including availability as part of the criteria.

Note the availability form is not the same as a flexi-form.

You could of course put your existing hours as your availability... This might result in redundancy.
« Last Edit: 13-02-19, 08:50PM by Walker »

lucgeo

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Thank you all  :thumbup:
Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

Walker

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Just to add... It's early stages so financial information about what exactly people will receive in terms of compensation if their hours are cut or the selection criteria for redundancy simply hasn't been released yet.

Also, there is a recruitment freeze for all stores until this is all over so some might choose to move to another department or even another Tesco store.
« Last Edit: 13-02-19, 09:00PM by Walker »

lucgeo

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Oops....just had text....another question please...

If you move dept/ store then do you keep your permanent fixed contract or have to accept a flexi contract for the new position  ???
Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

Walker

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You'd be applying for a new vacancy at that point so it depends on what the store agrees in terms of contract type.

Munchkin

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Everyone should understand an availability form can be used as a double edged sword depending on the quality of manager you deal with it can be used to force you to do hours that are really difficult for you at that particular time especially if your circumstances change and you forget to update your availability or if your availability may change on a regular basis due to various reasons everyone who completes one should think carefully about what they put down and be realistic about what they are able to do and also consider there is flexibility built into even fixed hours contracts and a manager may use your availability form to enforce that staff who have limited availability often have genuine reasons for this and a good manager will take into account and not just favour those who have less restrictions

Samantha

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@lucgeo,
Welcome back, I haven’t seen your posts for sometime (your posts helps a lot) and you have helped me in the past.
Good to see you back.

londoner83

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When deciding how flexible you are, does the business consider issues with public transport ie there are no buses/trains before/after x o'clock or does it presume you should walk/use cabs?

Redshoes

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As someone who has gone through this twice I think trust boils down to the individual. I had a great store manager that gathered info for me before my consultation and took time to answer questions and I had all the info I needed. When I talked to PM it was less so.
This is the first time we have been through a structure change without a PM and more will fall on SM shoulders. On the whole I think this is better as I think SM are better at delivering facts and that is what is needed. We just don't have the facts yet.
As for Reps, I chose not to use them. There was a rep who told her best friend everything and I did not want others to know.
I changed my mind part way through process first time due to job being offered to me, but it came at a bad time for me, had family bereavement during process. The SM was very kind and told me to think with my head and not with heart. This is not always the right thing to do but in my case he was right.
Second time I was on the point of going when I was offered a job in another store.
In both cases I would say no regrets.

world of their own

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When deciding how flexible you are, does the business consider issues with public transport ie there are no buses/trains before/after x o'clock or does it presume you should walk/use cabs?

No....Its not the company's problem how you get to work.Thats always been my theory.

lackofinterest

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a DECENT company would consider it but a tw*t like lewis only cares about himself and money >:(