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15-12-18, 11:54PM

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Author Topic: Seasonal working arrangements form  (Read 4052 times)

dfl

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Seasonal working arrangements form
« on: 29-11-18, 08:57PM »
Opinions please, manager arranges above forms to be dealt with not via meeting with him but with dot-com driver/leader, all gets agreed with same person and then few weeks later member of staff affected gets told can't have some of the "agreed" days as unpaid, even though member has the form signed by member and the driver/leader.  Should member, if unsuitable to change anything on it, now be in position to refuse to alter it ?

Any questions or more detail required I'll find out and get back to you all on this forum.

Thank you in advance.
DFL

oldfashionedplayer

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #1 on: 30-11-18, 07:15AM »
Should have been done with the member of staff rather than the team leader etc, but if the staff member has agreed and got the stuff signed then they should be good to keep to the arrangements already made, as that's what was originally agreed upon, if the member of staff wants to change it, its up to them.

there's no point in filling out paperwork to then just go completely ignoring it, if the manager etc has a problem with it then they should try and discuss it but if the staff member doesn't want to change and is being pressured to by them then they should put in a complaint as they've already agreed to the working hours they wanted.

dfl

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #2 on: 30-11-18, 08:00AM »
From info I have the hours were agreed between the driver support and the member of staff, the manager had nothing to do with it except for giving the job of doing the forms to the driver support, but now that the manager is unhappy as the member of staff has opted for some shifts unpaid the member is indeed being pressured to change it which the member doesn't want.
DFL

captain

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #3 on: 30-11-18, 12:46PM »
Sounds like the manager was being lazy in delegating this out and now in the brown sticky stuff.
If form is signed by both parties then there is not a lot that can be done to undo the "contract".
Perhaps common sense should prevail and a compromise could be reached by both parties

fatboy

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #4 on: 30-11-18, 01:02PM »
Just another case of managers trying to delegate their jobs to other staff as they can't be bothered. It's the managers job to fill out these forms with their staff.

dfl

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #5 on: 30-11-18, 01:34PM »
Thanks for comments so far, I've found out that the manager has said to the member of staff that because he/she didn't approve it then the member can't have it unpaid, member is livid, I'd argue that manager delegated the process to driver leader and should now be forced to go with it as he/she delegated it in the first place, the member of staff apparently is due to work on the days in question but in evening but the store closes just 1 hour into their shift so they would have to go home well before their shift would be complete, and I've been told this is the reason the member wanted to take it unpaid, manager however is adamant that they should be moved to other days to cover instead (and the member isn't on a flexi contract either)
« Last Edit: 30-11-18, 01:36PM by dfl »
DFL

Mark calloway

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #6 on: 30-11-18, 02:55PM »
I've not had any meeting whatsoever. Probably won't either.

lucgeo

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #7 on: 30-11-18, 04:13PM »
The way I've always understood it was that if your contracted days shift is later than the store closing time at Xmas, then the colleague would be expected to come in earlier to do their full shift hours on that day. Obviously legal driving hours may play a part, but your friend should not be expected to change their contracted day to accommodate.

Does that mean that all the working arrangements made with the other colleagues and the dot com driver/leader are void?? Which is what your friend should be asking?? The manager should have sat down with all his team and discussed working arrangements, he can't just decide to approve the ones he likes which were done by TL, he must either accept the TL arrangements for all, or void all and do it himself.
Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

dfl

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #8 on: 30-11-18, 04:27PM »
I think when it comes to the doing hours earlier on the same day that would be only if they could accommodate, family commitments should come first also a change of working hours I would have thought would be equivalent of a change of contracted hours, but I do totally agree with the summary that the manager can't just revisit the arrangements he or she doesn't like and be happy to let the others go through, from what I've heard the statement from the manager was "I didn't sign them off", the manager did however let or indeed require the driver leader to have them signed by the driver leader and the member, I already asked to see said form and I now have and can confirm there is a signature on it from both the driver leader (doctors signature, lol) and the member of staff, dated several weeks ago and yet manager has only just raised this issue with the employee
DFL

dfl

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #9 on: 03-12-18, 12:20PM »
Not that working different hours in same day is right but I've only just found out different days are being offered, none suitable
DFL

dfl

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #10 on: 03-12-18, 06:12PM »
Does anyone else have any advice regarding the above original question as the employee is just being told can't have it unpaid and has to change hours, surely that's against most people's t's and C's especially for non flexi contract staff
DFL

lackofinterest

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #11 on: 03-12-18, 07:29PM »
you only have to work your contracted shifts, excluding bank holidays. they can't force you to change shifts

lackofinterest

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #12 on: 03-12-18, 07:33PM »
if not on flexi contract theres no need for seasonal working arrangements. you have bank holidays off and work your contracted days. couldnt be simpler. the manager is an ar**h*le. tell him to f**k off


dfl

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #13 on: 03-12-18, 11:28PM »
the contracted day is christmas eve, employee starts at 6pm and is meant to work for 4 hours i think, until 10pm, but the store closes at 7pm, so that would mean going in for an hour only and also means that the staff member cant finish their contracted shift, manager is pushing them to work a different day when they don't want to, they have elected to have it unpaid but manager isn't budging.
« Last Edit: 03-12-18, 11:29PM by dfl »
DFL

oldfashionedplayer

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #14 on: 04-12-18, 06:13AM »
As per my previous post they should stand by the forms that were signed by the member of staff, whether the manager signed it off or not after their writings / meetings etc is their fault and that could be seen as discrimination if it's targeting just that colleague and also misconduct since they've agreed and changed their mind etc (just throw protector line a little wiff) but if you or the person affected is worried then see below:

Regardless of whether its contracted day or not if they wanted to they could use their personal day without refusal for it if they didn't want to work it, as for what you said about only going in for 1 hour is pointless, it says they aim to offer a minimum of 3 hours of work, so if they want to try and do that they can argue it's not beneficially for the worker nor is management abiding by their own terms and conditions + staff handbook, the manager can offer them to work a different day within the pay period but can't force it, they should be sitting down with the person and going through the process of "work a different day, take as unpaid, use personal day, shift swap,use a holiday or arrange a different shift start / finish / reduction of pay for it"   

those are the usual terms that are offered, though the person could just phone in sick too on the day and say they've got diarrhoea or something, so it could go down as absence but there isn't much they can do on it and it's a hard one to prove they have it without them coming in and risking health and safety / higher up complaints if you report it :)

Personal Day:

If you join us on or before 30th September in a particular
holiday year, then you will be able to take an additional paid
day off called a ‘Personal Day’ at any point in the year. This
additional day is given on the basis that you complete at
least six months’ service within that holiday year.

If you particularly want to take the day between 1st
December and 31st January then you can do so, but
otherwise the day can be agreed with your manager.

dfl

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #15 on: 04-12-18, 10:58PM »
My friend is so upset over this, told me today that the manager pulled her aside and is pushing for her to give the manager days that she can work to replace the hours, why can't the manager just accept that unpaid is a fair and reasonable suggestion as the employee doesn't want other shifts ?
DFL

oldfashionedplayer

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #16 on: 05-12-18, 12:46AM »
Just report it either anonymous, or at the store and complain about it being harassment, without the colleague having a sit down with a rep involved they shouldn't be taking them aside at any point.

Chojac2412

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #17 on: 05-12-18, 07:47AM »
The manager has not managed this situation well. They will need drivers in for the run up to Christmas but not so much for the Eve and certainly not for after store has closed. The extra I used to work in had people working up until 2200 or more on the Eve's getting ready to re-open, I have had to do this myself.
As the manager delegated the Christmas working arrangement form it comes back to an error by them and you have the form and it is signed. I don't see that they can do much about it but I do wonder about if this battle is worth it. They point has been made, you have stood firm and you are in the right but sometimes I think you need to pick the battles. This is a battle you have won hands down but is it worth it. This is the busiest time of the whole year and have you stood by only working your contracted hours and nothing more. There is scope for a compromise now that you have won the battle.

gomezz

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #18 on: 05-12-18, 09:59AM »
Even if they have made plans for the holiday on the back of having their Christmas hours agreed?
"The progress of the kart is more important than its direction"

dfl

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #19 on: 05-12-18, 02:40PM »
Exactly the point Gomez, this shouldn't be happening to her after the process (correct one or not) was completed 3 weeks before being questioned, apart from protector line I don't think I can offer her any other resolution, just hope if she goes that route that they do. Apparently manager has spoken to her again in the continual push to have her give in
DFL

lucgeo

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #20 on: 05-12-18, 03:47PM »
Then if the manager keeps asking then he knows he's in the wrong! If he was in the right he would be having an informal discussion, to arrange the hours.
Don't think it's a case of having known of winning a battle, but reaching a compromise though. I would ask for a meeting with the manager, colleague and rep to discuss why there is a need to change, why others have been approved from the same process...chances are there is another had similar days/hours approved which overlap. I would argue that the process for working arrangements would come under the guidelines of holiday booking request, and as they have been approved,albeit by a lead, and 7 days have lapsed, the colleague has made arrangements...(they are under no obligation to explain what arrangements ) then the request stands, or the manager puts in writing the reason for refusal.
Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

dfl

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #21 on: 05-12-18, 05:54PM »
These forums are great, it's so difficult and sometimes impossible to find anything 100 % relevant to a situation, and these opinions are so helpful, I'll let the lass know what people's views tend to be on this and see if it helps to alleviate anything for her, just a thought on the arrangements bit tho, if she has made arrangements or her partner even has secretly he'll now have to tell her he'd made them ruining any surprise, oh the repurcussions of misbehaving management
DFL

lucgeo

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #22 on: 05-12-18, 07:15PM »
No reason need be given...." I have now made arrangements" end of......the manager can ask....the manager can suggest a change of arrangements.....but the colleague does not have to give an explanation....." I have now made arrangements" END OF.....
« Last Edit: 05-12-18, 07:18PM by lucgeo »
Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

dfl

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #23 on: 06-12-18, 11:08AM »
wouldnt surprise me if the manager goes down the informal discussion route anyway, even tho it looks like the manager is in the wrong, such is their bullishness sometimes.
DFL

oldfashionedplayer

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Re: Seasonal working arrangements form
« Reply #24 on: 06-12-18, 07:00PM »
just make sure they take someone with them and if anything take notes on it, least if it does come up as a problem the manager will be shot for it lol.