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Author Topic: Trespass/squatting  (Read 2020 times)

Nomad

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Trespass/squatting
« on: 15-11-18, 10:35AM »
https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/17219712.homeless-man-planned-to-spend-night-in-dunfermline-tesco-store/
Quote
David Berry, 48, had left the James Bank Hostel where he had been staying and made his way to the supermarket where he lay down under a stairway.

The incident led to him being arrested when he started shouting and swearing at police.

https://www.gov.uk/squatting-law/squatting-in-nonresidential-properties
Quote
Squatting in non-residential properties

A non-residential property is any building or land that is not designed to be lived in.

Simply being on another person’s non-residential property without their permission is not usually a crime. The police can take action if squatters commit other crimes when entering or staying in a property.

Crimes include:

    causing damage when entering the property
    causing damage while in the property
    not leaving when they’re told to by a court
    stealing from the property
    using utilities like electricity or gas without permission
    fly-tipping
    not obeying a noise abatement notice

I do not believe the police would have the right to remove him if he had stayed still and silent as he was trespassing and that is a civil matter, not a crime.
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gomezz

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #1 on: 15-11-18, 07:52PM »
Would not enjoying the benefit of an electric or gas fired heated space count as using utilities without permission?  Or is that too much of a stretch?
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Nomad

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #2 on: 15-11-18, 08:54PM »
Doubt it, as they would have no control over whether it was on or off.
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weebee

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #3 on: 18-11-18, 04:49AM »
I'm sure that the trespass and squatting laws are different in Scotland,

Totot

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #4 on: 18-11-18, 09:49AM »
A non-residential property is any building or land that is not designed to be lived in.
So what is the law for living in a property that is not design to be lived in then? As if someone live in their own non residential property.

Nomad

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #5 on: 18-11-18, 10:34AM »
Totot, are you asking if there is a law that prohibits somebody living in their own non residential property ? if so I fail to see the connection to this topic.

However I do not think there would be a law prohibiting such behaviour.
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Ahsda

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #6 on: 21-11-18, 11:10AM »
Are you suggesting that they should have left him there?  ??? :D

Nomad

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #7 on: 21-11-18, 12:37PM »
I am suggesting, and opening for debate, that there is considerable ambiguity in the law regarding this matter as peaceful trespass and squatting in commercial properties are not criminal offences but  civil offences, coupled with the fact physical force to remove is fraught with possible legal repercussions.   
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Walker

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #8 on: 21-11-18, 10:31PM »
A non-residential property is any building or land that is not designed to be lived in.
So what is the law for living in a property that is not design to be lived in then? As if someone live in their own non residential property.

Living in your own non-domestic building is against building regulations and planning permission but both are enforceable by court order against the property owner by statutory authorities.

In practice, it is not illegal to squat in commercial properties. It is unlawful so a civil remedy exists for a posession order. Failing to obey such an order would amount to contempt of court.

Walker

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #9 on: 21-11-18, 10:34PM »
Are you suggesting that they should have left him there?  ??? :D

Most lawyers would recommend leaving him there and seeking a court order. In practice, this is the safest option.

VladPutin

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #10 on: 28-11-18, 12:21AM »
The store was about to close for the night. They couldn't leave the person unsupervised; he would have been straight into the booze and food as soon as he got the chance. So unless you want a member of the night shift to watch him until he decides to leave, calling the Police was the right thing to do.

Administrator Comment Drink or drunk not mentioned in the article. Nomad
« Last Edit: 28-11-18, 10:17AM by Nomad »

AlexW

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #11 on: 28-11-18, 08:21AM »
Squatting and Trespass are different things, squatting refers to the occupation of an abandoned building, where as this would just be considered trespass.

I'd say the police could possibly have grounds to arrest him here, by him refusing to leave the staff are unable to close the store, and thus unable to go home. This could constitute "Aggravated trespass" which is a criminal offense, as he could be considered to be obstructing/disrupting the staffs lawful activity
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/33/section/68

Nomad

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #12 on: 28-11-18, 10:20AM »
@AlexW, good link, good answer.
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VladPutin

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #13 on: 29-11-18, 01:25PM »
The store was about to close for the night. They couldn't leave the person unsupervised; he would have been straight into the booze and food as soon as he got the chance. So unless you want a member of the night shift to watch him until he decides to leave, calling the Police was the right thing to do.

Drink or drunk not mentioned in the article.  Nomad

Seriously? He's a Jakey; he wandered into the store after leaving a homeless shelter. Management would be daft to let a normal person spend the night unsupervised, never mind someone who's idea of vintage wine is Buckfast.

Nomad

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #14 on: 29-11-18, 01:59PM »
@VladPutin: I can only assume you know him personally and/or were involved in this matter at this location, or that you make assumptions about people who you know not.

The latter is a condemnation of your character so I'll assume it is one of the former, as I do not believe it is fact that all those who find themselves in the unfortunate position of having to use a homeless hostel are a Jaky.

The thread is a discussion on trespass and squatting law and the possible ambiguities, quite why you felt the need to mention his character in a post only you will know, perhaps it makes you feel better about yourself in some twisted way.
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VladPutin

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #15 on: 29-11-18, 05:34PM »
@Nomad aww - you're adorable! I bet you believe in Santa Clause as well! :D

This pathetic loser walked into a store and refused to leave when asked, preventing the people who worked there from going home. When police turned up, he swore at them, claiming he had nowhere else to go(uh, you mean apart from the hostel you left to come here?). These are not the actions and behaviour of a productive member of society. It's how a worthless parasite who contributes nothing to the society he leeches off behaves. He doesn't deserve sympathy or understanding. He deserves our contempt. To quote Dr Cox from the brilliant show Scrubs,

"We're born alone, we live alone and we damn sure die alone. Bottom line, Newbie, and you might just want to write this down: only the weak need help".

Nomad

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #16 on: 29-11-18, 05:47PM »
We're born alone, twins  :question:
We live alone, married couples and those in partnerships  :question:
We die alone, plane crash victims  :question:

Some quotes are just rubbish.

You have earned my sympathy, as have the weak and homeless.

Return to the topic.
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VladPutin

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Re: Trespass/squatting
« Reply #17 on: 08-12-18, 05:25PM »
As for the topic at hand: the police followed procedure. By refusing to leave, he was preventing staff from locking up and going home. This could be taken to constitute behaviour liable to cause a breach of the peace, as frustrated, tired workers who are sick of waiting to go home might decide to drag the person out by force.  Which would lead to police having to arrest them for Assault.

 
« Last Edit: 08-12-18, 05:53PM by Nomad »