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Author Topic: informal investigation meeting  (Read 15804 times)

trollyboy

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informal investigation meeting
« on: 18-01-17, 11:14AM »
hi all, i have been given a letter inviting me to a informal investigation meeting, im interested to know a few things, im aware of whos made the allegation against me, and who the witnesses are, should all of the people not have been interviewed before me? am i allowed to see the statements before i go into the meeting? the allegation is actually a load of rubbish if im honest but im aware it has to be folowed up as per the disciplinary process, i have been informed its not an actual grievancebut an allegation.

DairyLee

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #1 on: 18-01-17, 11:30AM »
You only get copies of any evidence if the meeting is sent to a disciplinary.  If as you say the allegation is a load of rubbish then it will end with NFA.  The informal investigation is just a fact finding meeting.
 

snowyowl

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #2 on: 19-01-17, 08:48AM »
Take a representative with you!  8)

Concernedmum

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #3 on: 15-04-17, 02:10AM »
Newbie here and no idea how to start a new thread, but my question is on this topic

Son -  new starter in sept 16 has been handed an investigation letter  regarding
' inappropriate use of company time'  he has clueless as to why, but I suspect it's because - he tells me he doesn't clock on and off for breaks " because no one else does"
Induction/training and performance meetings seem slap dash / non existant as does management hierarchy, he has no idea who's in charge of what - he's 19 - first job flexi contract 12 hours core. He's always asked to work more / changed hours at short notice, verbally or via text, which he usually agrees to if he can fit in round college commitments.

3 questions:
If he asks what exactly the meeting is about are they obliged to tell him? It's not till this Friday.

Also his letter states he can have parent or guardian there, but disciplinary rules online state only if he's 18 or under ( he's 19)  can I, as his mum go with him or not?

As a recent starter, does he have same rights to warnings before dismissal or can they get rid of him for ' 1st offence'

Any help appreciated, thanks

claden

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #4 on: 15-04-17, 05:56AM »
Unless you are a rep I don't think you can go with him. It's an investigation so he should find out exactly what he's supposed to have done at the meeting and since when are we supposed to clock out for breaks?

blutopia

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #5 on: 15-04-17, 06:14AM »
Concernedmum:

https://cdn.ourtesco.com/2016/04/Disciplinary-Policy-April-16.pdf

"We will not take disciplinary action against you, until an investigation has been completed".
"The invite [letter] will:-
Contain a copy of any paperwork/evidence relating to the disciplinary (sometimes this is sent separately)"

So they are not only obliged to tell your son the full nature of the allegation, they must also disclose their evidence.  As it says, they are supposed to investigate before deciding to hold a disciplinary meeting, so that evidence should be immediately available.

Clearly, once your son is given the full details, he is likely to know if the allegation is valid.  As you say: "Induction/training and performance meetings seem slap dash / non existant as does management hierarchy, he has no idea who's in charge of what", so if your son feels on reflection that he has made a mistake, there could be grounds for claiming mitigating circumstances.  Be aware that the disciplinary procedure further states:

"The level of sanction you receive will depend on:-
- the severity of the issue(s);
- whether you have received previous warnings about related issue(s);
- how much relevant training you have received; and
- your attitude, conduct or honesty during the disciplinary hearing".

My advice on the last point is to make as good a case in defence as possible, but don't provoke!  The previous points about previous warnings and relevant training should be enough to ensure the worst case scenario being a slap on the wrist (I'm assuming here that the issue isn't very severe or I would have thought your son would be more aware of it already).

As the letter your son has received states you can attend, I suggest it's best he checks beforehand.  If he doesn't get the opportunity or proper confirmation, I suggest you go (but take the letter with you).  If you are refused on the day, your son should ask for an adjournment until alternative representation can be arranged.

Regarding your concern that your son is a recent starter, the disciplinary procedure does not provide for different outcomes according to length of service.  Technically, new starters have little or no security, so I don't really think this issue makes any difference (if they wanted him out, they could probably just do it).  The fact your son cooperates as much as he can with the shifts he works is probably a big point in his favour.

Finally, others may disagree here, but I personally think the degree of resistance should reflect the seriousness of the allegation.  Of course, if your job is on the line you would fight hard to keep it.  However, if it is something trivial, it is usually really very easy to negotiate the outcome as a 'training need' whereby the manager is happy cos he/she can feel superior and put a piece of paper on file for eight weeks and the 'accused' can go away and carry on as normal.
« Last Edit: 15-04-17, 06:15AM by blutopia »

Concernedmum

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #6 on: 15-04-17, 08:12AM »
Thanks blutopia  for the detailed reply, that's given him stuff to work with. He's going to ask today if I can come. He's doing His 9th shift in a row today so he's pretty drained.

Thanks also Claden  interesting what you said about not clocking off for breaks. As an outsider I thought he'd got that wrong, but it sounds like not.

Cheers folks

GreenGrocer

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #7 on: 15-04-17, 08:13AM »
"feel superior"   ;D

They will be able to half justify the earnings for another month or two  :D

lucgeo

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #8 on: 15-04-17, 09:04AM »
Concernedmum

Is your son in the union? If not, get him to join now!! He needs to have someone who knows the ins and outs of investigations. Look at the thread posted by blutopia, with regard the process. I doubt you will be allowed to accompany him as he is of legal age.

He does not have to have an USDAW rep accompany him, he may have another colleague to represent him, who, in Tesco's own policy booklet states, what is their "representative's" rights. So does he know an old hand colleague or ex rep, who could accompany him? The manager will try to say a non union rep does not have the right to speak. rubbish!! Refer them to the section on the chosen representative's rights ;)

Err....is that a daily ninth shift without a day off ??? ???
« Last Edit: 15-04-17, 09:08AM by lucgeo »
Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

tumshie

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #9 on: 15-04-17, 10:00AM »
I've seen clocking on and off for breaks mentioned on here before, and we were asked to do it in our store some time ago. I never did it as I believed it would give them more chances to get the wages wrong. After a while I mentioned it to my dept manager who said it didn't really matter.

If clocking is the issue at your son's store, they should be reminding everyone not just him.

He should definitely follow lucgeo's advice re taking a union rep or sensible colleague to the meeting with him.
There should be a union notice board somewhere near the staff lockers, with a list of who the reps are.

tumshie

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #10 on: 15-04-17, 10:04AM »
By the way, to start a thread you need to be a VLH supporter, which costs £2.
http://www.verylittlehelps.com/index.php?page=15

Otherwise it's fine to post in a relevant thread, as you have done.

Concernedmum

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #11 on: 16-04-17, 01:55PM »
Thanks all,
He asked the investigation manager if he could know what the issue was... she said no, he then said " if I know what the issue is, I'll be able to know not to do it again between now and Friday ( when the meeting is )" apparently she replied with " you won't be doing it again"
Really no idea what's it's going to be, hopefully just a naive mistake on his part but manager certainly isn't making him feel any better.
She also confirmed I can't go to meeting, but son has found a colleague who'll go with him, not sure he's experienced in these matters though.
Son also asked the note taker named in the letter if he knew what was going on. Note taker had no idea at all about it, or the fact he was named as note taker.
Nineth shift, with no day off, but not full days...
Will get him to look into union, he's not a member ( yet)  does it cost much? Lucgeo
Thanks also for info re starting thread £2 is paid  :thumbup: tumshie

Morris999

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #12 on: 16-04-17, 02:31PM »
Inappropriate use of company time could be quite afew things,
Could be a fancy way of saying he's taking either two many breaks or too long on his breaks,
Standing around talking for long periods of time,
Using personal mobile for non work purposes,
Messing around in the warehouse/backyard etc,
Those are just some of them, however with the changes that came in last year they are supposed to not be so vague when issuing the investigation letter and are actually meant to put what the allegations are!

lucgeo

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #13 on: 16-04-17, 02:58PM »
Concernedmum

It's about £5 a month to join the union, and they are covered the moment they sign up, which won't be taken out of his pay for about 6 weeks.

That manager needs managing themselves by giving that ambiguous answer! "You won't be doing it again" what's that supposed to mean ???

Your son needs to get a rep organised for Friday, if he joins the union. If no rep available it can be adjourned until one is. DO NOT let them tell him it can't, it can!!

If he decides to take a colleague, remember the colleague has the same rights as a union rep! The only one not allowed to speak, or give an opinion, is the note taker!




Live for today. Learn from yesterday.

blutopia

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #14 on: 16-04-17, 04:18PM »
Concernedmum:

Your son should tell the People Manager that company policy regarding full disclosure before the meeting is not being followed.  If he has still not been provided with the full details in advance of the meeting, I suggest printing off the Tesco policy about providing full details AND evidence and take it to the meeting.   At the meeting I suggest not answering ANY questions pertaining to the case.  Say simply that as company policy has not been followed - despite requests to do so - the meeting should be adjourned to another date.  This should be recorded in the meeting notes - and your son should check that it is recorded as failure to observe policy - it could be an essential material fact in any appeal.  No arguments - just dig his heels in and politely refuse to answer any more questions and don't be bullied into signing anything he doesn't agree with.

Following the manager's comments, I think it would be a very good idea to quickly join the union and get a qualified rep.  I would even go so far as to raise the manager's comments at the (adjourned!) meeting (avoid complicating next Friday), ask her to explain the comment and (depending on the answer) suggest the case has been pre-judged.  This is quite heavy stuff for a youngster to deal with, though.  Unfortunately the bullying attitude suggested by the manager's comments is all too common in this company.

Morris999

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #15 on: 16-04-17, 06:24PM »
Blutopia, it's what happens when you promote youngsters who have no life experience whatsoever into management positions!
And the next group of young managers see how they've been managed and follow in those same footsteps!
It's an endless circle unfortunately!
Unfortunately it's not just a Tesco thing either, seems to be a Retail thing, with historically retail being a low paid environment!

Concernedmum

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #16 on: 16-04-17, 06:39PM »
Really appreciate the support on here, thank you so much.
Blutopia I've been looking at the disciplinary policy ( Jan 2017) and I can see the pre meeting disclosure is only before a disciplinary hearing, my son is only in the first stage and his is just at 'investigation ' meeting and I can't see there has to be full pre meet full disclosure for this.
I've seen the policy on  ' let's talk'  meeting and the form,. He's had one  lets talk meeting which was a "how are getting on ?" taken by a colleague who used  to be the section manager but has ( for 4 weeks now) been missing and no one seems to know where she's gone!
I'm assuming this other manager dealing with the investigation has taken over his section, although there's been no formal telling of staff. Suffice to say a couple of weeks ago she changed his Saturday shift (11am to 8 ) - she told him she wanted him for a 6 am start. When son said he could do earlier but 6 would be very hard - They settled on a 8.30 start. There was no explanation of business need or time to go away and have a think. She produced a new work schedule and made him sign it within an hour. He felt he had no choice.
morris999  this manager is not a youngster, she's middle aged with a family and I get the impression she's been at the store for a good while...
Such a shame for him, his positive attitude has just dwindled away.
He's going to seek out the rep and take it from there.
So frustrating, being a mum on the outside, first taste of not being able to step in to help him >:D

Aussieboy

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #17 on: 16-04-17, 06:51PM »
I am 100% sure you can go with your son, it was in a recent union arena mag
I know a mum who went with her son and nobody had any problem with it.

GreenGrocer

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #18 on: 16-04-17, 06:54PM »
Blutopia, it's what happens when you promote youngsters who have no life experience whatsoever into management positions!
And the next group of young managers see how they've been managed and follow in those same footsteps!
It's an endless circle unfortunately!
Unfortunately it's not just a Tesco thing either, seems to be a Retail thing, with historically retail being a low paid environment!

For 5 years all of my night leads have been under 30. They all take great pleasure in ordering LMs to discipline people. Sometimes even the hardest of workers. Most of them have friends and family already in the company from check out staff to area managers. You would get pulled up for not wearing uniform as you awaited order and the NLM would come in every night with jeans on. He also likes to disappear into the office for about 8 hours of the 9 hour shift... :thumbdown:

Concernedmum

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #19 on: 16-04-17, 07:02PM »
Vince - my son asked outright and they said no, he's over 18.... just need to make sure he has someone with him and from this forum I'm going to push to get the rep...

Aussieboy

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #20 on: 16-04-17, 07:23PM »
Tell him to ring the union office I'm sure they are wrong

mexicopete

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #21 on: 16-04-17, 07:28PM »
This thread is a perfect example of all that is wrong with Tesco management. It typifies their total lack of understanding of how to carry out the simplest of tasks. It would seem that every manager in every different store follows their own book of rules on a every aspect of company procedure. I have stated my views on the way we are managed on this site many times in the past. Tesco is worst managed company in my near 50 years of working by a country mile, nowhere I have worked comes close to the incompetence I see every day. If I were your son I would call the protector line asap. and explain to them what is happening and in all probability watch your sons problem disappear before his very eyes and hopefully as an added bonus his useless manager will get the comeuppance they deserve. by the way they as Vince250679 has stated they are wrong about you being able to attend, and if his store is anything like mine MM treat youngsters like something like sh*t, they are so disrespectful towards them. >:( >:( >:(
The worlds me lobster

GreenGrocer

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #22 on: 16-04-17, 07:34PM »
You can take a family member, friend, work colleague or rep. They are talking BS. If I was your son I would attend and say they did not follow procedure by allowing a rep of your choice so you are refusing to discuss the matter until a solution can be met. Then at the second hearing just say there procedure was flawed so you thought the procedure was just a joke and conveniently point to April fools. I would just F them about. Hopefully all the nonsence gets escalated to the highest manager and he wont be able to read the statements but will see clearly procedure has not been followed he/she will hopefully assert superiority and say the whole thing is alot of rubbish and let your son free to do what he is paid for. LMs are often happy to sit in office for hours but the SM usually wants you in and out ASAP as customers need dealt with and shelfs need filled. ;D

mexicopete

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #23 on: 16-04-17, 07:40PM »
Vince - my son asked outright and they said no, he's over 18.... just need to make sure he has someone with him and from this forum I'm going to push to get the rep...

I can't for the life of me see what being over 18 has to do with anything, just another glaring example of how useless Tesco management are, it's embarrassing. :-[ :-[ :-[
The worlds me lobster

BrownEyedGirl

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Re: informal investigation meeting
« Reply #24 on: 16-04-17, 09:29PM »
ConcernedMum

I am astonished that your poor son does not know what the investigation is about, how can he defend himself when he doesn't know what the problem is.

Tesco BS as usual.

Defo get him to join union, and seek a rep out.