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Author Topic: Theft enforcable?  (Read 11896 times)

madness

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #100 on: 06-01-17, 12:52AM »
How is it acceptable to try before you buy.

Spidercatcher

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #101 on: 06-01-17, 06:25AM »
I was really puzzled after reading that item yesterday. Sorry as I am that the gentleman suffered a heart attack, but why on earth was he awarded money when he clearly and purposely removed an item from the store and took it home with him without paying - for whatever reason. He was in the wrong and unless he has something wrong with his head, he must have known it.

 One thing's for sure, I want his lawyer to represent me if I'm ever found guilty of anything.

Expressdude2016

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #102 on: 06-01-17, 08:54AM »
Spidercatcher its looks like the money was awarded as Tesco Failed to let him appeal within legal timescales and on this is occasion 3 times he had tried to appeal also the fact Tesco failed to recognise his lawyers. ( If employed by the company you  have no right to have legal representation at investigatorys or discplinarys however he was an EX employee after being fired so Tesco had no right to ignore the law firm acting on his behalf.   
« Last Edit: 06-01-17, 08:55AM by Expressdude2016 »

Spidercatcher

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #103 on: 06-01-17, 11:40AM »
Aah, thanks for that Expressdude.    :thumbup:

madness

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #104 on: 06-01-17, 01:56PM »
Nothing better than a technical win.

wazziznaime

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #105 on: 06-01-17, 03:18PM »
only mistake T%sco made was to employ someone (as it was even worse in security) with there own view as to what is and what is not miss -appropriation of stock ...

tumshie

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #106 on: 06-01-17, 03:29PM »
He didn't know about tesco's policy on refunds and exchanges, then.

That wasn't their only mistake, wazziznaime. They also managed to catch said person taking something without paying for it, yet they messed up getting him convicted for it.

Nomad

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #107 on: 06-01-17, 04:35PM »
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60

 
Quote
Basic definition of theft.

(1)A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly.
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lackofinterest

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #108 on: 06-01-17, 04:55PM »
so he borrowed it ??? without permission  8-)

Expressdude2016

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #109 on: 06-01-17, 04:55PM »
Was Ireland however so English law has no jurisdiction.

wazziznaime

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #110 on: 06-01-17, 06:50PM »
He didn't know about tesco's policy on refunds and exchanges, then.

That wasn't their only mistake, wazziznaime. They also managed to catch said person taking something without paying for it, yet they messed up getting him convicted for it.
yes iam aware that T*sco didn't get a conviction because they messed up ,well fancy that  T*sco messing up  ..............

sep1985

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #111 on: 06-01-17, 09:59PM »
The Police And Criminals Evidence Act (PACE), defines theft as "the appropriation of goods belonging to another with the intent of permenantly depriving them of it".
I f the colleague was under the belief that they had a right to take the item home then it's not theft. However. They can be disciplined for misappropriation of company property which is a beach of trust therefore gross misconduct and can be dismissed.
As a rep, I would argue that if the company believe that a theft has taken place then they are duty bound to call the poice otherwise they could face prosecution for obstruction of justice in failing to notify the authorities of a criminal act. Very few store managers want the police parked outside the staff reception and plus it ties them up in red tape as a whole new can of worms gets opened.

wazziznaime

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #112 on: 07-01-17, 06:51AM »
The police come in once or twice a week to have a breakfast and walk round the store, last month we thought we had read our Christmas dress code wrong when 30 police turned up for doing instore and around the stores car park traning etc like checking vehicles etc so think can safely say that our store manager loves the police presence and the customers to see them ,our store is hit quite badly by shoplifting which would surprise some people considering the area it's in .

forrestgimp

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #113 on: 07-01-17, 05:58PM »
The Police And Criminals Evidence Act (PACE), defines theft as "the appropriation of goods belonging to another with the intent of permenantly depriving them of it".
I f the colleague was under the belief that they had a right to take the item home then it's not theft. However. They can be disciplined for misappropriation of company property which is a beach of trust therefore gross misconduct and can be dismissed.
As a rep, I would argue that if the company believe that a theft has taken place then they are duty bound to call the poice otherwise they could face prosecution for obstruction of justice in failing to notify the authorities of a criminal act. Very few store managers want the police parked outside the staff reception and plus it ties them up in red tape as a whole new can of worms gets opened.

Problem is this is employment law not criminal and the burden of proof is incredibly slim. If tesco have a reasonable belief that the person intended to steal said item (and taking it home is a big indicator if you ask me) then they can sack him/her for gross misconduct. They are also under no obligation to inform or involve the police either, I have known people who have stolen hundreds from the till walk out without the police being involved.

Justjohn

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #114 on: 09-01-17, 05:26AM »
The Police And Criminals Evidence Act (PACE), defines theft as "the appropriation of goods belonging to another with the intent of permenantly depriving them of it".
I f the colleague was under the belief that they had a right to take the item home then it's not theft. However. They can be disciplined for misappropriation of company property which is a beach of trust therefore gross misconduct and can be dismissed.
As a rep, I would argue that if the company believe that a theft has taken place then they are duty bound to call the poice otherwise they could face prosecution for obstruction of justice in failing to notify the authorities of a criminal act. Very few store managers want the police parked outside the staff reception and plus it ties them up in red tape as a whole new can of worms gets opened.

as a rep you are wrong , no company is duty bound or legally bound to involve the police . as a rep you don't appear to have a clue and I wouldn't want you to represent me. as the investigation and the discaplinary hearing are NOT court of law. there is no reason for the  police to be involved , as rep you should be aware the only thing an employer has to be satisfied is proberbility , (they might of done it or in Tesco mind all trust has broken done between the employer and the employee) , thus the burden of proof is fareless than what would be required by a criminal court . as a rep your job is to get the person off or the lowest punishment possible. so you want Tesco sack and person and get them a criminal record

lucgeo

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #115 on: 09-01-17, 08:05AM »
Slightly off topic here but......

If a colleague, during a random staff search, is found to have an "item" on their person which is deemed non permissible on the person whilst working, can Tesco go down the disciplinary route, if that staff search was done in a non-designated staff search area??

Could it be argued that it was an illegal search, due to the location?? The colleague was not under suspicion and the "item" was not money or tesco property ???
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Equalizer87

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #116 on: 09-01-17, 10:54AM »
As far as I'm  aware,  staff searches should not be done in full view of other staff/customers like the shopfloor/warehouse. Should be done in either a security room or a closed office. That's as far as I'm aware.
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lucgeo

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #117 on: 09-01-17, 12:18PM »
The search area was not in full view, behind a closed door, but is not a designated area. i.e. Doesn't have the poster on wall stating it is the designated search area ???
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Equalizer87

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #118 on: 09-01-17, 12:21PM »
Then it would be fair to assume it's not a proper search. I know in Extras  they have a room for searches with a camera in.
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picktocube

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #119 on: 09-01-17, 12:42PM »
If the search is done in a room without a camera, then a witness needs to be present.

lucgeo

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #120 on: 09-01-17, 02:22PM »
Yes it was done with a witness, but it's the technicality I'm interested in.

Policies for people states that the search area must be a designated search area and the relevant poster must be prominently displayed affixed to the wall ??? ???

So if this wasn't the case, in as much that the search area used is not designated and no poster displayed, could it be deemed as void because of this? Eventhough the search was carried out correctly ???
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Nomad

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #121 on: 09-01-17, 03:05PM »
"designated" by whom and when ?

"the wall" what wall and where ?
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lucgeo

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Re: Theft enforcable?
« Reply #122 on: 09-01-17, 03:25PM »
Designated by the store/depot for staff searches.

A wall in the designated staff search area.

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