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Author Topic: hours change  (Read 16830 times)

Alvor the grear

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Re: hours change
« Reply #50 on: 12-07-19, 02:14PM »
Thanks for the responses :) my contract says I'm 'employed on a flexible contract' but I would dispute this. I don't remember as to what I put on my availability 9 yrs ago but I expect I gave good availability. The last one I filed in I just put 5-2 on my contracted days mon Tues wed & sat. It's all to do with the new heat map my manger sat down with me to do a let's talk and showed me on his tablet that we are over hours! I do not know whether they are going to try and take it further......I left usdaw some years ago shall I sign back up??

NightAndDay

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Re: hours change
« Reply #51 on: 12-07-19, 02:20PM »
Don't sign up to USDAW, they're not a proper union. The last availability form you filled in when they were going through restructuring will be the one currently in effect, they can't do diddly about making you work hours you're not available for as long as it's documented.

If they try to force it through, contact your people partner about it, bring up your latest availability form and the fact you've been working the same shifts for 9 years, if the People Partner sides with the SM saying "needs of the business" grt the relevent legal literature from the CAB and re-engage the people partner, if still they push back, go down the grievance route.
« Last Edit: 12-07-19, 02:25PM by NightAndDay »

lucgeo

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Re: hours change
« Reply #52 on: 12-07-19, 09:14PM »
Well if your department are over hours, why are they asking you to do the same amount of hours? Have they shown you the heat map, to where it says you are needed.

It would seem ludicrous for them to suggest you change your hours to an earlier finish, as we all know, deliveries are notoriously late, so if they have you finishing earlier, and the delivery then turns up, who are they going to get to unload it, as they can't put anyone into your old hours??

I know what I'd tell your manager and where to stick his suppository  :o
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Redshoes

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Re: hours change
« Reply #53 on: 13-07-19, 08:04AM »
Thanks for the responses :) my contract says I'm 'employed on a flexible contract' but I would dispute this. I don't remember as to what I put on my availability 9 yrs ago but I expect I gave good availability. The last one I filed in I just put 5-2 on my contracted days mon Tues wed & sat. It's all to do with the new heat map my manger sat down with me to do a let's talk and showed me on his tablet that we are over hours! I do not know whether they are going to try and take it further......I left usdaw some years ago shall I sign back up??

The availability forms should now be refreshed annually. If you have only put down your actual working hours and you are on a flexi contract you are in breach of contract but your manager should have advised you of this so they should not have just accepted either. If fixed hours it's fine. However, if we ever get to a stage where overtime is issued by the tablet you won't get any due to your availability. There is a warning triangle that shows on tablet if you work outside your available hours.

lucgeo

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Re: hours change
« Reply #54 on: 13-07-19, 09:19AM »
Sorry Redshoes I'm not getting what you mean 8-) Are there two different types of flexi contract? If Alvor hasn't changed hours for 9 years this should surely be set as a permanent contract of hours.

I once had a discussion with a manager who said a colleague's hours couldn't be changed as they were on a fixed flexi contract?
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BoredBaker

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Re: hours change
« Reply #55 on: 13-07-19, 11:26AM »
I’ve just started a formal 30 day consultation on my hours change. I work early mornings and my shifts are being changed to late nights finishing at 10pm every shift I work now. Instead of finishing at 4pm.

Union are useless. No guidelines on what is a reasonable change to shifts so I basically have to go with this if I want to keep my job. Used to have a 2hr grace period that they could adjust shifts by but not any more. Whatever suits them is what I basically got told. No other departments I can move to as they are all over contracted hours. Fed up with Tesco now. 14yrs of working the same 7-4 shifts and now having to move my life around to work 1-10pm. Ridiculous

lucgeo

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Re: hours change
« Reply #56 on: 13-07-19, 11:35AM »
Yes it used to be a two hour window either way for changing a shift which was classed as reasonable. Who has informed you this is no longer the case? If the window timescale is no more, then your rep should have been provided with up to date booklets, explaining the accepted changes when dealing with RHRP.

Have you contacted ACAS fr advice?
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BoredBaker

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Re: hours change
« Reply #57 on: 13-07-19, 12:02PM »
It was the union themselves who told me this is no longer the case. The policy on moving hours got updated in 2017 and no longer mentions anywhere about a time frame or anything at all  about reasonable changes. Looks like the union have just backed down on this policy and they genuinely just don’t seem interested in my case. I’ve tried arguing that I have a family (elderly father) to look after and that’s why my hours suit me but because it’s doesn’t fall within childcare or transport issues then unfortunately my hours will be moved. Feel this is very harsh and at a loose end with what to do now. Feel like going to my doctor and getting signed off with stress as I’m not sleeping or eating very well with all that’s going on. Horrible situation

NightAndDay

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Re: hours change
« Reply #58 on: 13-07-19, 12:53PM »
My understanding of flexi contracts is that you are assigned a fix number of hours to do every week according to your contract, your manager has the discretion to allocate the hours however they want, you have to be offered the hours according to your contract, but the hours you work can't be hours which are unreasonable to work i.e day and night shifts in the same week also rules such as at least 11 hours between any 2 shifts has to be followed.

I'm actually not sure if there's much point in flexi contracts if the restrictions of availability imposed by the availability forms take effect as well, if you fill in an availability form where the range of hours you've put down matches your current hours snd shift pattern, you've effectively made your flexi contract a fixed hours contract, I suppose from a legal stand point, the terms of the flexi contract can still be applied even if the outcome would be they are essentially working the same hours and shifts every week.
« Last Edit: 13-07-19, 12:56PM by NightAndDay »

Walker

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Re: hours change
« Reply #59 on: 13-07-19, 01:13PM »
There are two main types of flexi contracts for stores(excluding dot com). A part time flexi contract (which is what the question is about) has core hours which you work every week plus an agreed number of additional hours which you may be asked to work. These hours must be worked within an agreed availability window.     Contractually, this window must be core hours + at least one shift. Can't be more than 48 hours.

RHRP and moving hours are different because in effect they are contract changes.
« Last Edit: 13-07-19, 01:15PM by Walker »

genome

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Re: hours change
« Reply #60 on: 13-07-19, 01:56PM »
There's not much in the way of guidelines for reasonable because reasonable is different in every case. It's up to them to show it's reasonable and to take your personal situation into account.

 You are entitled to see the business case that proves they need to move you, simply stating needs of the business is not enough. Moving you to suit someone else isn't acceptable.


  Always take a rep in. They have their own documentation of the process that must be followed. They are also able to be more level headed in dealing with the managers.
 

Babybell

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Re: hours change
« Reply #61 on: 07-09-19, 02:06PM »
I am in a similar situation, sorry to jump on your post. They want me to move my hours to a much later shift which would leave my children (7&11) un able to be collected from school. My partner work's on call and is away up n down the country a lot so I can't call on him for child care. I have offered to come in earlier as my school operates a breakfast club but this fall's one hour short of what my manager has asked for and they are un willing to compromise on this. I'm not on a department that needs me to opened  like kiosk. I have had two informal meetings and in my second I was refused a union rep. They have now given me a letter stating consultations at the end of this month. I feel that this is being rushed through just to get me out, it's making me ill, I already suffer PTSD from an incident from a few years ago and all this is triggering my anxiety. I am also care for my mother and my support network for my children are very limited. I'm just not sure how this will end and am genuinely concerned that this will be the end of working for them.

NightAndDay

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Re: hours change
« Reply #62 on: 07-09-19, 03:50PM »
Does your availability sheet state that you can't work the hours they want to move you to? Everybody had to fill in an availability sheet recently, if the hours your manager wants to move you to is out of your availability, then you can refuse, if he disciplines you for refusing, write out a grievance address it to the PM and take a photo of the grievance, if they contractually dismiss you over refusal to move to unsuitable hours then you will win if you take it to an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal.

Babybell

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Re: hours change
« Reply #63 on: 07-09-19, 04:07PM »
I have always filled in my availability sheet to reflect working around my child care comments, they are wanting me to work outside of what I said I was available for. My availability hasn't changed for the last 11 years and I never work any overtime outside of what is on that sheet simply because I can't. I find it very upsetting and unnecessary, I try to be as flexible as I can  and as my children get older I can do more. But they have told me the won't support me as my children are over 3. I'm not actually sure how I'm supposed to make this work and my manager said they have no problem with pursuing contractual notice.

Cleaner1

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Re: hours change
« Reply #64 on: 07-09-19, 04:32PM »
Just fill in your available 247 and if they ask you to do something when you are unavailable just say something came up and you are busy. Never give them proof in writing they can hold against you that you are non complaint to the flexi working.  My availablity form is the biggest red herring ever. ;)

NightAndDay

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Re: hours change
« Reply #65 on: 07-09-19, 07:14PM »
I have always filled in my availability sheet to reflect working around my child care comments, they are wanting me to work outside of what I said I was available for. My availability hasn't changed for the last 11 years and I never work any overtime outside of what is on that sheet simply because I can't. I find it very upsetting and unnecessary, I try to be as flexible as I can  and as my children get older I can do more. But they have told me the won't support me as my children are over 3. I'm not actually sure how I'm supposed to make this work and my manager said they have no problem with pursuing contractual notice.

They can't change your hours to ones that conflict with your availability, they will need a business case to show why they have to specifically move your hours which will be almost impossible for them to do, as I said earlier, if they're threatening to contractually dismiss you, drum up some documentation through grievances, treat this situation as if it's going to go to a tribunal, the more evidence you can gather the better, when you've filed grievances follow it up with consultations with acas.

Teddybonkers

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Re: hours change
« Reply #66 on: 07-09-19, 07:48PM »
Just threaten to take them to an employment tribunal if they want to go down that route & watch them back down. If what you've said is correct, they're in for a hiding to nothing. Don't be intimidated by them - the law is on you're side. They're just trying it on.

Babybell

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Re: hours change
« Reply #67 on: 12-09-19, 12:48PM »
I will ask my union rep if he can see a business plan from my manager. I have a couple of issues that I'd like to put forward regards to my manager stating they won't support working parents with children over 3, which I've found out it isn't true  and also that they refused me access to my union rep . As of yet I don't know how we contact our area personnel manager any more, I'm hoping this is something my rep will help with. We are no further forward regarding any compromise over my hours and  am genuinely worried about loosing my job. I spoke to my store manager about how stressful I was finding this and he almost rolled his eyes at me.

lucgeo

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Re: hours change
« Reply #68 on: 12-09-19, 01:27PM »
See if he rolls his eyes when you ask for the email address for your area personnel manager  ;) All Tesco managers have an email address which is usually their name @ Tesco I'm unsure of the format but any manager, or other posters on here will know how to contact on their email.

sorry, but I'm unsure?? Are you going through the restructure?? If you are, then they can not refuse a rep to the informal meetings as this forms part of the process. Other informal meetings, a request for a rep present can be declined, but your post states that they have initiated consultation process, which is not an informal. An informal containing threats of contractual dismissal, and blatant lies on child care age, is far from an informal!

Were any notes taken at these informals ? If so, then you're entitled to copies, and they should have been signed by you and the one conducting the meeting. If the mention of rep request refused, contractual dismissal and child aged over 3 are in it, then you can grievance. If no notes available, then you just play the game, ignore what was said as there is no record. Any further meetings you ask for a rep and a note taker, for future referral. if still refused, write your own notes of who saying what, any threats insinuated. At the end of the meeting, ask the manager if they agree it is a true record of the meeting and would they like a photocopy? Date and sign it in front of them.
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Babybell

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Re: hours change
« Reply #69 on: 12-09-19, 03:01PM »
Thank you for that, I will ask tomorrow for a copy of the notes taken and the heat map as I am unsure if they have written about the child care age limit and rep refusal. At the point of those two meetings it was still at the informal stage, I was handed a letter a few days ago inviting me to a consultation meeting and that won't be held for another two weeks yet. Our shop isn't under any restructuring , I was told this was needs of the business and that the heat map indicated a problem with just one of my shifts, all the others are fine. I will bring up the statements in my next meeting tho and make sure it's documented. I just can't believe they are willing to put me through all this over the sake of one hour. They don't seem to be pressing me for the later finish anymore but want an earlier start of 7 am but I have no child care until the hours of 7.30.

lackofinterest

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Re: hours change
« Reply #70 on: 12-09-19, 09:38PM »
are you the only person they are asking to change hours? if so it is unreasonable request. sounds like you'd be better off working for a decent company instead of these arseholes >:(

lucgeo

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Re: hours change
« Reply #71 on: 13-09-19, 06:46AM »
If they are saying " needs of the business" for one hour in the morning, then they need to show that, to prove how one hour affects the running of the business. Goodness, you must have a very important job, that a 60 minute window disrupts the whole business.

The heat map is only a guide, it can be overridden by the manager. As you state, your role is not dependent on opening up a department, or on a time constraint, so they really are just trying to bully you into changing.

Don't attend any further meeting without representation, and ask for a copy of the notes to read, before hand, you should be given at least 10 mins to read through them with your rep.

Good luck  :thumbup:
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lucgeo

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Re: hours change
« Reply #72 on: 13-09-19, 07:07AM »
Forgot to say, once the meeting has got underway, and the note taker has started, make reference to the previous meeting with regard to statements made of, child age, constructive dismissal and refusal of rep, being against policy. The note taker has to write this down in your notes, so now you have a written record of what's been said. If it's not being written down, do not go any further until it is. Do not sign the notes at the end if all the points made have not been written down, take time to read them thoroughly. The note taker is there only to take notes, cannot speak or ask any questions of you, nor give any opinions or get involved in the meeting. If they try, state that fact, and any further persistence will be grievanced, then make sure that's written in the notes also!!
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Redshoes

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Re: hours change
« Reply #73 on: 13-09-19, 08:44AM »
It would seem that on the back of the restructure in metro stores some of the bigger stores are pushing things. I don't think any of us should be complacent and we don't have a job for life and we certainly don't have job for life within office/school hours without wknds.
However, moving hours needs to a for a good reason. As someone else has stated the heat map is a guide, it is a base schedule for the lowest hours of the whole year. As such it can only ever be a guide. The tablet is a week by week, day by day reflection on where the store and department stands. The tablet is however only as good as the information that it has been given. If it has been fed wrong information or changes that should have been updated have not been done the information it shows won't be right. You need to go to the union as you need support with this as unles you can see shifts wrong in the tablet you won't know if the info is correct.
If there is a routine that is time sensitive that needs to be completed, the change to hours might be needed but you might not be the only person who could change. Is it for break cover for someone who has been in from early hours. The business case can be for many different reasons but they do need to be valid. It could also be that they are saying the dept is heavily manned at the other end of the day, if this is the case you are just one of many (or few) that could be asked to move.
The variables are unique to you so you do need help, the union can only make sure the process is followed but by doing so they can make sure you are not being asked to do something unreasonable. Also, they are required to give you a copy of the heat map if they are using this to try and move your hours.

Babybell

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Re: hours change
« Reply #74 on: 16-09-19, 10:49PM »
Thank you for all your advice, I will definitely address those issues and press to get it written down.  I am a very replaceable cog in this organisation and I know they would probably prefer someone with  far more flexibilit . Every one else has had hours moved or tweaked but I'm the " difficult" one sadly. I honestly have no confidence in my managers ability to go through this consultation process correctly, it's like I'm being handled like my job is being made redundant which it isn't. I'm trying to work out if the things they are claiming are threats or just lack of actual knowledge. I'm sure we will find out over this coming month.