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Author Topic: ideal schedules  (Read 167873 times)

jo2345

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ideal schedules
« on: 06-09-12, 05:31AM »
Hi, as tesco seems to be rolling this out in quite a few stores now my question is simply does tesco have a right to make us fill out the "availability" form.I have never heard of a company making its workers fill out a form telling them all the hours they have no reason not to work, indeed if we have no outside work commitments are we supposed to say we are available for work 24 7?

alien

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #1 on: 06-09-12, 06:33AM »
Seems to be the way of things. Usdaw is onboard with tesco. Availability seems to be disregarged. Ideal schedules is just about finished in my store and new hours about to start. There is a lot of unhappy workers at our store. There availability seems to have been ignored and people are being forced to work hours they have said they can't work.

Loki

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #2 on: 06-09-12, 07:46AM »
Read the following link. It will be of use to you:

http://www.verylittlehelps.com/index.php?topic=7178.0

gomezz

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #3 on: 06-09-12, 08:33AM »
My view is that my employer is always free to ask me if I am available to work at a certain time outside my contracted hours.  And I, of course, am free to consider their request and agree or decline as I see fit with no need to give any reason.
"The progress of the kart is more important than its direction"

jo2345

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #4 on: 06-09-12, 04:39PM »
After reading the information in the link regarding this it says "Availability Form.

Members do not need to complete and sign availability forms as part of 'moving people around the business'. It is unnecessary and more importantly, does not form part of the policy regarding changes to Terms and Conditions. Availability forms are only completed by those employed on a Flexible Contract.

If there is a need to move people's hours, then it must be done in accordance with policy via the correct procedures as already mentioned. Anyone who is asked to complete the aforementioned form should refuse and refer Management to their contract and make clear to them, that should they wish to change their hours, then it must be discussed via a consultation period where a mutual agreement/compromise may be met. To be asked to complete such a form is contrary to the correct procedure.

It is advisable that, when entering into any discussion regarding contractual changes or being given forms to sign, members should speak with their Union Rep.

There is no need to sign a form to state that one does not wish to change their hours.

You have a contract.

You have signed that contract.

To be asked to sign anything else without consultation is both unnecessary and not procedural."
Now in the booklet i have received it says "We will ask you to complete an availability form to let us know the hours and departments you would be willing and available for work, and to carefully consider how you can support us to make the changes required."Now there is no mention of this just applying to people on flexible contracts indeed it later goes on to mention under things to consider when completing the availability form-flexible contracts-moving onto a part time flexible contract or a full time flexible contract, which would suggest this availability form is for people not currently on flexible contracts which as i said before leaves those of us without kids or carer responsibilities in the position of saying we are available 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

Loki

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #5 on: 06-09-12, 05:41PM »
As already stated, the availability form is NOT part of the moving people around the business policy. The point being made is that this form is to be used for those on flexible contracts, NOT standard contracts.

You do not have to fill in this form.

Any changes that they wish to make to your contractual hours should be proposed to you via the correct procedures, including informing your Union Rep of what hours need to be changed and how many people will be affected PRIOR to individual consultations taking place.

You have asked the question.
You now have the answer.

Speak with your Union Rep who will assist you in dealing with this.




mrblobby

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #6 on: 06-09-12, 10:25PM »
Flexible contracts do not work. They are good in theory, having worked in a newly opened store where all staff were on Flexi contracts. However in reality it only really works in .Com or Checkouts that often relies on overtime. Managers and Team Leaders just do not have the time to flex every member of staff up and down every week, or review their hours weekly, that takes a lot of time they dont have. Then when overtime is cut, the staff dont get any extra hours anyway. So they get used to not doing extra hours, and then refuse overtime, and the managers do not have time to manage them.

Then Right Hours Right Place aka Ideal Schedules is a complete nightmare due to staff leaving and not being externally recruited it is a constant ongoing labourous process that again takes time that managers do not have.

Loki

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #7 on: 07-09-12, 12:03PM »
Excellent points mrblobby.

If only management could see this.

jo2345

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #8 on: 07-09-12, 04:15PM »
i know you keep pointing us to the moving people around the business policy but at my store the plan seems to be they want everyone in the store to fill out an availability form and then anyone whos hours are going to change will be taken into a meeting and that will be the start of the 30 day consultation period.We were given no indication that filling in this form was voluntary and were made to belive that it must be completed and knowing the union reps at my store they will just agree with whatever the management say.I dont realy want to mark myself out as a trouble maker as im sure most people dont but i realy dont think it is acceptable for the company to be asking us to fill in a form telling them i will be available for work anytime as i dont have a valid reason to put down certain hours and we were told that there must be a valid reason, what is the point in having contracts when tesco behaves like this.

tumshie

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #9 on: 07-09-12, 07:05PM »
if i have no other definite commitments apart from work, i might be perfectly happy to say so and to be asked to do overtime at any time in the week, but i would hope not to be pressured into doing it because of having said that i am available.
the trouble is that no-one can trust t*sco to behave reasonably about it.

even if we all shouldn't moan because we are lucky to have jobs, t*sco aren't doing themselves any favours  by being such a rubbish employer as the result is that they aren't getting the best use of their staff.

Nomad

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #10 on: 07-09-12, 07:58PM »
Is this 'form' situation perhaps the sort of situation where a call to union area office could result in an area officer visiting the store and if required and applicable pointing the local MM in the right direction. Yes I know the staff should stand firm but as it effects the majority of the staff in a store a different approach could be implemented. That's of course presupposing the area office(er) would want to help the staff, some of whom may be members and some who may become members if impressed with it being sorted out satisfactory.

There's nothing like a good advert to attract people members  :d:
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stackintheshelves

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #11 on: 08-09-12, 08:21AM »
question... i guess i would have no problem with changing shifts as i'm on full time nights, and work weekends, so not really bothered when my days off are... but i would have a problem if my days off were split... to me, it is imperative for night workers to have two days off together...are they obliged to do this??

BarryZola

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #12 on: 08-09-12, 08:50PM »
Here's an important tip from someone who's store has just finished this process:

Try not to make yourself too available on your form. Find as many reasons for not being available at times when you don't really want to work. If you make yourself too available they will may take advantage of this. For example, people who were formerly working 2 or 3 long shifts were being asked to work the same total of hours but split over 4-5 days with some shifts as short as 4 hours as they said that they were available every day.

If I were you I would pretty much try to only make yourself available for the shifts that you currently work (if you're currently happy with them). Both sides (you and the ideal schedules people) will probably have to compromise slightly over a few meetings which will take part over a month or so. The trick to this process turned out to be that you try to get what suits you perfectly at first, then compromise with them as they do basically just have certain hours on certain departments that need filling, and they will do this regardless of whether anyone likes it or not. In most cases people will have to change their hours/dept to some extent, some not at all, some majorly. It's up to you to pick the right time in the process to look at what's currently been offered to you after a bit of compromise from both sides (probably after about 2-3 meetings) and decide "Yeah, this is probably the best offer of hours/dept that I'm going to get, so I'll accept these now". Take too long over it or dig your heels in too much and you might find that hours/dept that you were offered originally may have been given to someone else while you were dithering and arguing about an hour or day of shift here or there. An offer of a 5 day job on fresh can within a week turn into an offer of a 5 day job on clothing. The process will go differently for different people who work on different departments, but most will have to change at least slightly. So be prepared to compromise with them as they're basically just doing a job that they have been tasked with (the ideal schedules people), but don't give too much away at the start. Try to take positives out of this also. For example, do you fancy a switch of department? Would you like to drop any hours (they like this)? This is a good time to seriously consider these things and mention them in your meetings, and if you have a good reputation and record with the company you may find that they will try to be accommodating with you. Don't treat this process as a battle against the company as it will stress you out as I witnessed in many examples. Try to take the positives, don't give 'too much' away but understand that you may have to compromise to some extent, as will the ideal schedules team.
« Last Edit: 08-09-12, 08:57PM by BarryZola »

Curious392

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #13 on: 09-09-12, 10:52AM »
For example, people who were formerly working 2 or 3 long shifts were being asked to work the same total of hours but split over 4-5 days with some shifts as short as 4 hours as they said that they were available every day.

I would consider this an unreasonable change, as although the total hours may be the same, getting ready for and travelling to and from work will take additional time out of your free time. Also, unless you walk to work, the changes would also result in additional costs for you to travel on additional days unless the additional travel costs can be claimed so ensure they take that into account ;)

Justaporkpie

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #14 on: 09-09-12, 12:33PM »
It is not necessary to fill the forms in!!!!

Duracell

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #15 on: 09-09-12, 12:34PM »
If we consider BarryZola's post, it is a very rational and sensible approach to a process that could ultimately be very detrimental.

What curious considers reasonable isn't really if we consider the fact that you have told them you are available at these times.
It is something you should consider when giving availability as part of the process, financial restraints on extra travelling with no wage increase, or transport availability issues should really be a serious consideration during the process not after the event.

Speaking from exprrience of a forced hours change, as BarryZola's post suggests By giving a little you can ultimately retain much of what you have, also if you have the inclination for a role change can this process help you achieve it.
My Opinion is exactly that, Mine.  Based on my view of what I know , see and what I would do.
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Loki

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #16 on: 09-09-12, 12:39PM »
It is not necessary to fill the forms in!!!!

I'm afraid it is falling on deaf ears.

No wonder many Tesco employees are so easily walked over by management.

I give up. Fill the damn forms and ignore the information already given. I really don't understand why many of you don't grow a pair of balls.

weir-07

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #17 on: 09-09-12, 02:06PM »
I love you Loki :)

Curious392

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #18 on: 09-09-12, 02:39PM »
What curious considers reasonable isn't really if we consider the fact that you have told them you are available at these times.
It is something you should consider when giving availability as part of the process, financial restraints on extra travelling with no wage increase, or transport availability issues should really be a serious consideration during the process not after the event.

I meant it to be as part of the consultation process, not a demand after decisions have been made. If you work 2 days a week and are happy to change those days, it would be ludicrous to say you can only work Thursdays and Sat*rdays just in case they try to spread those hours over more days; the consultation is the time to negotiate what you deem to be reasonable.

Store contracts also say you may be required to work from a different site at times, so do you also believe it is reasonable for them to require you to work 100 miles from home without covering the additional expense?

With regards to the filling out of forms, I understand that some may have reservations around them but for those on a fixed contract where the forms are used purely to determine if they can move people to an ideal schedule without having to resort to forcing unwilling people to move I really don't see the problem - though I'll admit I haven't seen one of these forms and so don't know quite how they word it. It's much nicer to come to an amicable solution with people willing to move than forcing people through consultation if it's unnecessary and can be avoided.

Loki

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #19 on: 09-09-12, 02:52PM »
but for those on a fixed contract where the forms are used purely to determine if they can move people to an ideal schedule without having to resort to forcing unwilling people to move I really don't see the problem

If you and others do not see the problem, then that is a problem within itself.

I and the members that I represent, will not fill out these forms. Whether members of this site agree or not makes no difference whatsoever.

I only hope that there are other Union Reps who are like minded.

It is apathy and weakness that has led those to acknowledge such practices as acceptable. Probably the same people who sold out in favour of the Partnership Agreement.

I cannot help but feel contempt for such people.

 
« Last Edit: 09-09-12, 02:53PM by Loki »

Pnoom

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #20 on: 09-09-12, 04:44PM »
Loki, I have a fully functioning (and aesthetically pleasing) pair of balls, thank you very much. The problem in my store is that we were told, by our own union reps, that the forms were compulsory. What's the average GA to do if we can't trust the reps to provide the right information?

Too late now, in any case - the process ground to its predictably messy and unhappy conclusion over a month ago. I can't speak for days, but the only difference for us on nights is an extra (unpaid) half hour at work. We now all work 10pm-7am, with two 45-minute breaks - other than that, there isn't a jot of difference. The deliveries still arrive late, we're still short of staff, the morale is still rock-bottom and the management are still, in the main, idiotic.

Loki

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #21 on: 09-09-12, 04:57PM »
I love you Loki :)

I'm feeling it. But not from everyone.  ;)

Pnoom.

What to do with the Reps?
Oust them.

It is most unfortunate that many Reps are either incompetent, weak or smooching some serious anus.

Lost sheep heeding the calls of spurious shepherds.


Curious392

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #22 on: 09-09-12, 07:30PM »
Sorry Loki, I haven't been through or seen this form filling process myself so maybe I misunderstand where this attitude is coming from.

All I'm saying is that if I had a team whom I needed to move some the hours round of, I'd be talking to them and taking volunteers first and I don't see how this form differs from talking to them all and asking if they would be willing to change any hours. If as a team we can arrange the changes needed this way, I don't see the problem and people are generally happier with the outcome, if not then of course it should go down the official consultation process route to forcibly move people around the business.

Loki

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #23 on: 09-09-12, 08:15PM »
Just for the record, a consultation process is NOT a route for Management to "forcibly" move people around the Business. This is where Management, deliberately or not, get it wrong.

Justaporkpie

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Re: ideal schedules
« Reply #24 on: 10-09-12, 10:14AM »
I agree with you Loki!  It appears that some of the management in our store do not have a life outside Trashco therefore they expect us menials to be the same and use their force/bullying tactics to try and make us like them.  Some of us will not take them up on their offer but unfortunately there are some week willed members, no fault of their own, who just can't stand up to them.  I have had somef feed back on "filling  forms in" and those who have had theirs done with one of these said managers have been TOLD they must put late shifts down and FORCED to give reasons for not working Sat*rdays, then these reasons are being analysed to a fine point.   And this is not even an official part of Ideal Schedules as you know.
Your posts must give these  people a bit of hope and support!!!!