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Author Topic: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover  (Read 13361 times)

bobbywm

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #25 on: 21-03-19, 08:00PM »
When this says,   superstores to lose 160 hours.  Is this all round, or are you just talking about security.?
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Rick grimes

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #26 on: 21-03-19, 08:03PM »
Yup that's why managers get paid extra money. I would help a member of staff but as i said where would the managers be.????

NightAndDay

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #27 on: 21-03-19, 08:05PM »
Your job as customer assistants and managers is to replenish, serve customers, store operations, reports and managing the store. It is not in your remit to recover stock outside of asking for the product back, verbally banning the shoplifter and having yourself, or the security guard log it in incident reporting. In cases of repeat shoplifting and flouting the verbal ban, the manager must involve the police to get the necessary information for the group security manager to fill out a written premises ban, when a person has 1 of these, if they enter the premises, they would be committing the crime of trespassing and the police can get involved.

Rick grimes

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #28 on: 21-03-19, 08:12PM »
In our store security does the filling not the job they are paid to do but that is not there fault, management tell them while any thief, drunk or junkie just wonders in.

optout

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #29 on: 21-03-19, 08:28PM »
It strikes me as a bit odd, that 9 times out of 10 when ever I read that somebody has been injured in violent confrontations in tesco, it is a security guard. surely if it were supposed to be up to managers to confront any issues of violence or theft (and they were actually doing so) then I would think that it would be managers who are being injured in 9 out of 10 incidents, but that seems to me to not be the case.

(the 9 out of 10 figures are just a wild guess as to what I feel the figures to be of course, i may be wrong, it just seems that way to me).

Also; the title 'security GUARD' seems to me a bit misleading,when they are supposed to just inform management of issues.

Are tesco security guards given any training or instruction in de-escalation techniques (that is not given to general assistants) with regards to handling violent confrontation? If so, why would they need such additional training, if their role is 'supposed' to be just to inform the management of issues?
« Last Edit: 21-03-19, 08:32PM by optout »
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NightAndDay

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #30 on: 21-03-19, 08:48PM »
Tesco security guards job is to monitor and deter, they have no special rights, no training outside of what they must learn to acquire their SIA license to be able to be a security guard in the first place.

If they stick to their training, violent confrontations shouldn't happen (obviosly Tesco corporates idea of customers are that they are pink and fluffy delights. When reality is that 90% of them are either scumbags or upper class snobs,).

optout

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #31 on: 21-03-19, 09:00PM »
https://www.clactonandfrintongazette.co.uk/news/17517150.security-guard-who-faced-sword-wielding-robber-says-i-was-just-doing-my-job/
note the words 'I was just doing my job', this guy is obvously under the impression that it is his job to protect staff, I wonder where he got that impression from?

Maybe he got that impression from his SIA training; check out the paragraph at the bottom of the page re; Diffusing Conflict?
https://www.thetrainingcircle.co.uk/articles/security/do-you-need-an-sia-licence-to-be-a-supermarket-security-guard


« Last Edit: 21-03-19, 09:03PM by optout »
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NightAndDay

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #32 on: 21-03-19, 09:07PM »
That's why I said "should" lower the risk of violent confrontations, people like the katana wielding robber, though a multiple occurrence is outside the realms of "normal conflict".

If you read the SIA conflict resolution training part, it says the same things as the ca training for conflict resolution, friendly, attentive helpful service is a major deterrent for shoplifters (furthermore a distinction should be made between shoplifter and armed robber, it's not a security guards job to prevent an armed robbery, that's a policeman's job.)
« Last Edit: 21-03-19, 09:10PM by NightAndDay »

optout

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #33 on: 21-03-19, 09:20PM »
 :thumbup:
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forrestgimp

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #34 on: 22-03-19, 03:26PM »
I agree with your point however I would say that it is not my job as a manager to deal with these people, once upon a time I’d have done what I needed to do to stop a shoplifter, not now.  Im not going to get myself involved, nor would I want the security guard involved either. If Tesco must reduce hours in this area and somebody is nicking a tv, then so be.

The cameras can be used to review the footage then call the police to investigate, that’s about it, plus I can’t be doing with the whole going to court thing either!

To be honest, these people probably have more rights than we do, despite what they are up to; so if serious call police.




I suggest you read the policy then it is as a duty manager your responsibility to deal with these people and any other incidents that happen.


Security prevent, managers back up but if it’s that bad then the police need called in!

Forrestgimp said earlier it's not security's job it's the management team responsible for it so who is responsible for staff safety and by the time you wait on the police coming a member of staff could be seriously hurt. So someone is telling porkies.

I suggest you bring up the policy on all of your phones, it is written in black and white what we as security guards are expected to do and what is the province of management it also tells us what not to do.



That's why I said "should" lower the risk of violent confrontations, people like the katana wielding robber, though a multiple occurrence is outside the realms of "normal conflict".

If you read the SIA conflict resolution training part, it says the same things as the ca training for conflict resolution, friendly, attentive helpful service is a major deterrent for shoplifters (furthermore a distinction should be made between shoplifter and armed robber, it's not a security guards job to prevent an armed robbery, that's a policeman's job.)


Are you SIA trained because i'm not and neither is my colleague nor has any of the previous Tesco guards going back 20 years the only people with an SIA license are the agency guards. No what we get by way of training is nothing except shown how to use the cctv.
« Last Edit: 22-03-19, 03:32PM by forrestgimp »

NightAndDay

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #35 on: 22-03-19, 03:59PM »
Global Moderator Comment Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).

Then Tesco are breaking the law, it's the law to be SIA licensed to work in any capacity in front line security.  My brother was SIA licensed working as a Tesco security guard.  As for my position I'm a part time ca, I was a part time shift leader but then got a job working in a position of confidentiality for the government.

Poent

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #36 on: 22-03-19, 06:27PM »
We are an extra and we’ve been told by senior team that security will not be tackling shop lifters any more, and that they are purely there for staff and customer safety!  No offence but I certainly wouldn’t trust them with my safety! Most of the time they’re on their mobiles!

Pushedout

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #37 on: 22-03-19, 07:15PM »
Then Tesco are breaking the law, it's the law to be SIA licensed to work in any capacity in front line security.  My brother was SIA licensed working as a Tesco security guard.  As for my position I'm a part time ca, I was a part time shift leader but then got a job working in a position of confidentiality for the government.

What law is this then? It is a requirement for security industry front line operatives to hold an SIA license, this is not the case for in-house security employed directly by Tesco.   The only issue Tesco May have is that the premises license may require an SIA licensed security officer to be on site, but this would only be local agreements (if any exist)

NightAndDay

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« Last Edit: 22-03-19, 09:54PM by NightAndDay »

forrestgimp

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #39 on: 23-03-19, 08:02PM »
Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).

Then Tesco are breaking the law, it's the law to be SIA licensed to work in any capacity in front line security.  My brother was SIA licensed working as a Tesco security guard.  As for my position I'm a part time ca, I was a part time shift leader but then got a job working in a position of confidentiality for the government.

I am sure you are probably right but non of Tesco in house security guards are SIA trained unless they paid for it themselves for some bizarre reason or already had it before taking on the job.


Yup, and yourself standing there asking where the managers are! Would you stand back and let a older female manager intervene just because ‘it’s her job’ or help out?

All I’m saying is the job of ‘security’ is for all however if the s*** hits the fan we need to help each other! Should somebody be stopped with a bottle of booze, yeah the manager along with security to stop and take them to other location, but in description above, it needs us all!

God forbid it does happen!!

Absolutely right I would especially when you consider I will get no help with paying my mortgage if I am away from work longer than I have accrued sick pay for nor will I get help to put food on the table.  You might be willing to sacrifice yourself in a similar vein the lady who jumped on the blue car to stop the alcohol thieves and had her spine broken but I guarantee she is getting nothing from Tesco without a huge fight because policy says let them go not leap on the car and become a human shield.

You think i'm being harsh or whatever but I will pop along and visit you in the hospital when you are at deaths door for playing rambo.
« Last Edit: 23-03-19, 08:10PM by forrestgimp »

Pushedout

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #40 on: 23-03-19, 10:51PM »
There is 100% no legal requirements for “in house” guards to be licensed.  Security industry guards (those employed by a guarding company) must be licensed. 

The role of the guard is to deter theft, primarily by being a visual deterrent.  Many other supermarkets have a lot less guarding than Tesco and no direct link can be drawn between number of guarding hours and amount of recorded stock loss.  Most of the time guards are ineffective and poorly trained anyway.

Guess it shows your morale fibre if you are quite happy to stand by and watch people commit crime, I know I would always try to do my bit, within my abilities and whilst assessing the risk, weather it be at my place of work or out and about.

 

lackofinterest

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #41 on: 23-03-19, 11:26PM »
i will happily stand aside and leave it to a superhero. at the end of the day, i don't  give a s***!!!

lucgeo

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #42 on: 24-03-19, 06:55AM »
Thieving......I would never get involved.

Threatening or abusive behaviour toward a colleague or customer..... I'd be straight in.

I'm comfortable with those moral values :thumbup:
« Last Edit: 24-03-19, 07:00AM by lucgeo »
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Rick grimes

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #43 on: 24-03-19, 08:08AM »
There is 100% no legal requirements for “in house” guards to be licensed.  Security industry guards (those employed by a guarding company) must be licensed. 

The role of the guard is to deter theft, primarily by being a visual deterrent.  Many other supermarkets have a lot less guarding than Tesco and no direct link can be drawn between number of guarding hours and amount of recorded stock loss.  Most of the time guards are ineffective and poorly trained anyway.

Guess it shows your morale fibre if you are quite happy to stand by and watch people commit crime, I know I would always try to do my bit, within my abilities and whilst assessing the risk, weather it be at my place of work or out and about.

Why should the staff get involved when a crime is being commited and before you say it's there job who gives a s**,t, don't forget all the hours being cut and job losses so Mr. Lewis can get his bonus. Why should the staff care when he doesn't and i think you'll find morale left the company through a window years ago.

forrestgimp

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #44 on: 24-03-19, 05:11PM »
There is 100% no legal requirements for “in house” guards to be licensed.  Security industry guards (those employed by a guarding company) must be licensed. 

The role of the guard is to deter theft, primarily by being a visual deterrent.  Many other supermarkets have a lot less guarding than Tesco and no direct link can be drawn between number of guarding hours and amount of recorded stock loss.  Most of the time guards are ineffective and poorly trained anyway.

Guess it shows your morale fibre if you are quite happy to stand by and watch people commit crime, I know I would always try to do my bit, within my abilities and whilst assessing the risk, weather it be at my place of work or out and about.

You have no right to pass judgement on my moral fibre, look at the company before you tell me I should be doing more or putting myself in danger. Managers know or should know what is expected of them they also get paid in most cases X2 more than me we are told in no uncertain terms we are not to intervene it is made quite plain the ramifications of doing so against company policy and I would expect managers are told not to put themselves in harms way either.


forrestgimp

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #45 on: 24-03-19, 05:35PM »
Yup, and yourself standing there asking where the managers are! Would you stand back and let a older female manager intervene just because ‘it’s her job’ or help out?

All I’m saying is the job of ‘security’ is for all however if the s*** hits the fan we need to help each other! Should somebody be stopped with a bottle of booze, yeah the manager along with security to stop and take them to other location, but in description above, it needs us all!

God forbid it does happen!!

Of course I would not let anyone get a beating without doing all I could to help its ridiculous to suggest otherwise, however my point stands the person responsible is the Duty manager not the poor security guard on 13k take home a year who has had no training other than a read of a book and whos training manual explicitly states will not get involved.

Oh and we were told last week we are losing hours on security so the real people who could not give a monkeys chuff about your welfare is top brass not me and my security brethren  working a thankless task for peanuts.
« Last Edit: 24-03-19, 05:38PM by forrestgimp »

Nomad

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #46 on: 24-03-19, 06:11PM »
Does anybody remember when you were served in a shop, and there was very little or no opportunity to thieve, and therefore no need for CCTV or a security guard.
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optout

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #47 on: 24-03-19, 06:48PM »
You're showing your age there. Even I can't remember that far back. And I have to pluck my ear hair.
« Last Edit: 24-03-19, 06:50PM by optout »
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just curious

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #48 on: 24-03-19, 07:02PM »
Does anybody remember when you were served in a shop, and there was very little or no opportunity to thieve, and therefore no need for CCTV or a security guard.
I recall the days when the store i worked in had two " Store Detectives " in the shop twice or three days a week sometimes catching the shop lifters and calling the police for a prosecution or issuing civil recovery fines on the shop lifters - if they were not in store where i worked they would be in the area in another store , then Tosco in there wisdom to save money made the  " store Detectives " redundant .

lucgeo

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Re: Superstore to lose 160 hours security guard cover
« Reply #49 on: 24-03-19, 07:05PM »
Sorry but I too remember that Nomad era....the grocery store assistants wore a brown coat, the departmental stores, assistants were situated on every glass counter which had individual drawers and the glass was cleaned with meths and buffed with old newspapers every morning.

The toffee adverts on TV showing the confectioner making individual toffee into trays by hand is laughable.....the actress is no older than 30, supposedly recalling her childhood...I could double that age and don't recall that. ???
« Last Edit: 24-03-19, 07:06PM by lucgeo »
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