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Very Little Helps => Stores => Topic started by: tricky251713 on 19-04-19, 01:33PM

Title: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: tricky251713 on 19-04-19, 01:33PM
This may turn out to be long winded so hopefully someone can stick with t and maybe help too.  I work merchandising nights. I do a 4pm-12pm Sunday then 3 10-6 shifts mon-wed nights.  My colleague does exactly the same as me.

The first meeting when the news broke 2 months or so ago, the store manager said as the first thing, “first of all there will be no redundancies” (that’s turned out to be a big load of bullsh*t). Then all along our manager kept reassuring us that the department which includes non food stock control was massively under hours so any changes will be minimal... again turned out to be rubbish.

Anyway in between all this I had looked for another job, got far into the process and they wanted to offer me a job, slightly less pay and on days but needed to know what was happening at Tesco, my manager talked me out of this new job and I probably did the same to myself and then lost the opportunity of this job before finding out about what is happening in merchandising.

So my colleague had her first informal meeting on a wed night that I had off as holiday, I had to wait 5 days for mine which happened to be the same day her first formal meeting started. I had second hand information from my colleague that she had lost her job was being made redundant and I was safe. Turns out they had point scored us neck and neck but I am slightly better on a screen (literally all we’re supposed to do is print planograms which both she and I are both capable of). So TESCO has chosen to say the one remaining merchandising role is to be mine and she gets the opportunity of another role around store or redundancy.

It comes to my informal meeting... I am told the heat map says 10-6 Sunday to Wed night which fits my contracted hours perfectly... I have never done a 10-6 on a Sunday, we always did a 4pm start to enable the big moves to get done before the night fillers come in. That was the request of our previous manager and nobody has ever mentioned it ever since. Then came the availability form... mine had the computer generated ticks showing the 10-6 Sunday to Wed night. I was handed it a few weeks ago over night and told they wanted it back an hour later, no chance to take it home to discuss with my partner so I didn’t touch the availability form for the fear of being shafted when it came to finding out the situation with the jobs. Turns out because the form says what it says, I have to accept what they say.

I can’t do a night shift on a Sunday now anyway due to needing to be awake on a Monday to look after my younger child, she is one. The next bit involved the manager doing the meeting telling me something he shouldn’t have in order to help me a bit. If I am to refuse the hours that the heat map says, he was to ask for my resignation there and then! I told him I can’t do the hours but don’t take a refusal and he said he’ll go back to the store manager to explain things from my view.

My issues are why do they get to play god and decide who gets to take redundancy and who doesn’t. I haven’t even been offered another role in store, not redundancy yet my colleague has been offered other roles (that she could do but won’t) so she gets to be offered redundancy. They are treating us completely different and in my opinion unfairly. She feels betrayed but I feel like she gets the better end of the deal and I’m getting shafted! My next informal meeting is to be Tuesday after Easter Monday. I now face no job with no redundancy and a house to keep afloat while my colleague who has done the exact shifts as me for 7 years to go happily with money to pay off her mortgage and then come back in 6 months to one of the roles being offered to her now. (She also has a job outside Tesco where she can up her hours easily.

Sorry for the essay but I don’t have a clue where to go with this. ACAS basically said I don’t have much of a leg to stand on.... 
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: NightAndDay on 19-04-19, 03:32PM
If the hours they offered you don't fit in with your availability (which Tesco has record of via the availability sheets) or it's a significant cut in take home pay, then it is unreasonable and redundancy has to be offered by law.
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: lucgeo on 19-04-19, 04:08PM
Your availability form is suspect, if the hours were already ticked in?? I know of no one who had there hours already generated on the form. Did you fill in the sections on max hours and minimum hours you would work, second and third job roles you would consider or other stores you would consider?? Did you sign and date it??

If your contracted hours are the 10-6 Sundays, then technically they are right in saying your availability is in the right place....however, if you had filled in the hours availability yourself, then they would have needed to question from the start why you put 4pm - 12 midnight, then you could have argued your case with childcare issues.  I seem to recall a rule of sorts that if you have worked a certain pattern in excess of two years, then that becomes the status quo?? Maybe another poster may know of this rule also??

If your colleague feels betrayed ask her to swap ???

Have you looked at requesting flexible working for parents (not to be confused with a flexi contract?)

Always be wary of manager mates, especially those who will have you believe the SM said/wants this or that, and they're just trying to cover your back ???  "Told to ask for your resignation there and then!" My arse!!!
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: lucgeo on 19-04-19, 04:44PM
Look up or contact ACAS with regard to ....implied terms/ custom and practice....to see if this would be relevant to your situation.
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: lucgeo on 19-04-19, 06:24PM
Having thought further on this, I would suggest some questions on your next meeting,

First off take a rep or colleague in with you and ask them to take notes....

Start the meeting by apologising if you came across slightly erratic in the last meeting...pause and let the manager reply....he'll probably be all nicey nicey and understanding. Then acknowledge that he's tried to do his best especially by having to convey, in the last meeting,  the SM's instruction to demand an immediate resignation if you were unable to do the hours...have your rep write all this down, especially his reply.

Then ask to see, what criteria was used to mark you and your colleague, and why they scored you higher?? It should be marked under the set form of criteria, so if neither of you are forum reps, first aiders etc....then they need to show what criteria marked you higher....they can't use sicknes, ability to do the job etc...

Then ask for a print off of your clockings, for the length of time you have been doing the 4-12 shift...as you are of the belief that it MAY be a custom and practice situation.

Then ask for any leaflets they have on flexible working for parents, as you have a one year old child, and are having difficulty in securing a childminder so having childcare issues.

Play the game....don't refuse outright, just say you are trying to sort childcare, around the hours, hence flexible working arrangements.

Do not resign, they wanted you to do this during consultation, as they would then have gone to your colleague and told her she was no longer under redundancy notice and saved a few grand in the process. They will state you are putting yourself under constructive dismissal, this is a final outcome, but quite rare. I'm not saying they won't go down this route, but with your childcare and longtime working shift pattern, they will be very careful. Also it would be better to constructively dismissed, due to being able to claim benefits earlier than if you resigned.

On a final note, is there anyone else to do your job, as your colleague will be leaving to take redundancy on the same day that you are either to start your new hours or be dismissed. Think that may also be in your favour.

Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: Overworked1 on 19-04-19, 08:58PM
You are available all hours if you want to potentially get alternative employment. Let Tesco lay out the offers. Accept the one which suits best. If none are suitable you will know they are being honest with you. If you want redundancy just put down the hours you work or even less. The benefits office could be good for some with Tesco poor wages.
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: Ibanker2 on 23-04-19, 09:32PM
Re Availability forms. Pre Populated forms come from Heat Map. This is not the form to be used during consultation. There is a specific form with specific text that tells you this will be used as part of selection process....
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: Fred T on 24-04-19, 10:33AM
There seems to be a lot of confusion around whether people leaving through redundancy are entitled to a personal day. I have read that some stores management are encouraging their staff to take it as it won't be paid in lieu like holidays. Can anyone give me a firm answer or any proof either way. I know its part of the Q and A number 32 but that isn't very clear. Any help very much appreciated.
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: Bubble2029 on 24-04-19, 01:15PM
Why do Tesco keep removing policies off our Tesco 🤔
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: tick tock on 24-04-19, 04:23PM
There seems to be a lot of confusion around whether people leaving through redundancy are entitled to a personal day. I have read that some stores management are encouraging their staff to take it as it won't be paid in lieu like holidays. Can anyone give me a firm answer or any proof either way. I know its part of the Q and A number 32 but that isn't very clear. Any help very much appreciated.
checked on Our Tesco and it states that you have to complete  six months service in the new holiday period to receive PD
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: jackwills on 24-04-19, 05:18PM
I took 2 days holidays at the beginning of April before I found out I was being made redundant, my manager told me that they have coded one of the days as a personal day.
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: kingofthebrokentoys on 24-04-19, 06:08PM
Has anyone had to sign any paperwork to accept redundancy payment?
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: Overworked1 on 24-04-19, 09:24PM
show me the paperwork  >:D
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: lucgeo on 24-04-19, 09:34PM
There seems to be a lot of confusion around whether people leaving through redundancy are entitled to a personal day. I have read that some stores management are encouraging their staff to take it as it won't be paid in lieu like holidays. Can anyone give me a firm answer or any proof either way. I know its part of the Q and A number 32 but that isn't very clear. Any help very much appreciated.
checked on Our Tesco and it states that you have to complete  six months service in the new holiday period to receive PD

Conflicting answers with what's given on other structure changes thread
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: Maginiavork on 25-04-19, 10:30AM
Hi.  I’m new but read through things you maybe able to help.  I had to apply for another job role in store as I have been given redundancy notice from my merchandising job.

I’ve been told I will not find out if I have the position until 11/05, when the new hours are meant to start.  Is this right?
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: Jondoe2016 on 25-04-19, 03:45PM
I just have to rant. I am a team manager and I have a vacancy in my department. It is a skilled area and needs filled. Not one of the lead team or store manager approached me about the vacancy and just took the hours off of an old  poster I had up(before this happened). Little did they know, i had the ability to flex the hours around to suit someone facing redundancy. So now everyone has been processed in my store and I have to go external to advertise it. Is p**ses me off because my lead team and store manager are by far the worst bunch. It just feels wrong on this whole process.
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: Riddler99 on 25-04-19, 04:17PM
Can anyone tell me this? With this payment that is yet to be concluded regarding how much overtime you average. Let’s say I average £100 a week, what sort of payment would I be looking at?
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: Maginiavork on 25-04-19, 04:26PM
Hi.  I’m new but read through things you maybe able to help.  I had to apply for another job role in store as I have been given redundancy notice from my merchandising job.

I’ve been told I will not find out if I have the position until 11/05, when the new hours are meant to start.  Is this right?
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: ReliantSkydiver on 25-04-19, 04:30PM
@Riddler99. If you were a long server and full-time, £100 extra on average a week would result in a significant rise in SRP and ASP payments (potentially thousands). But this would very much depend on age, service etc. Add £100 to your weekly gross pay and put it into the redundancy calculator to give you an idea, but remember this wouldn’t be applicable to PILON payments.
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: Riddler99 on 25-04-19, 04:33PM
@Riddler99. If you were a long server and full-time, £100 extra on average a week would result in a significant rise in SRP and ASP payments (potentially thousands). But this would very much depend on age, service etc. Add £100 to your weekly gross pay and put it into the redundancy calculator to give you an idea, but remember this wouldn’t be applicable to PILON payments.

Thank you. I’m full time and been with the company 19 years
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: ReliantSkydiver on 25-04-19, 04:35PM
Riddler99. Good for you, and well done for slogging out that overtime. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised...
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: lucgeo on 25-04-19, 04:51PM
Sorry but bit of clarification needed here.....job seekers allowance....is it means tested, being asked by two people who are of differing beliefs and both think their right :-X
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: Welshie on 25-04-19, 05:18PM
6 months contribution based jobseekers then means tested or income support .
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: lucgeo on 25-04-19, 07:19PM
Thank you, one is less hours than another, so it could be that they have not paid enough contributions?? I don't know, it's not my forte :-X

What infuriates me is that neither Tesco or USDAW have arranged an advisor for benefit, entitlement claims etc, in store for any of these sweeping culls that have occurred in the last few years. Affected colleagues who have worked for many years, have little or no knowledge of what's what with regard to entitlement or qualifying criteria. It's extremely concerning, that no support or advice has been offered for those entering, which is for most, unfamiliar territory. Not even one of the famous USDAW junk bags, full of c**p, and half a tree of leaflets, has emerged. No worries, at least you can file your nails, whilst waiting in the job centre queue, as that was the latest must have freebie, dished out by USDAW, at the expense of all your subs  :-X :-X
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: Welshie on 25-04-19, 07:44PM
There is a poster up in our store for a phone line to give help and support to supermarket workers (this is not related to current restructuring) . Apparently it's for health , financial advice , I think it's groceryaid .org or something like that , does anyone else know . It might be useful for people .
From personal experience years ago when my husband was paid off , I can honestly say citizen's advice are brilliant , you can make an appointment with their financial adviser .
When it comes to JSA once your 6 months contribution based is up , if your partner works you get nothing so you then have to apply for working tax credits . 
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: Overworked1 on 26-04-19, 08:20AM
heres some jsa info which might answer a few ?

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/help-if-on-a-low-income/jobseekers-allowance-jsa/before-you-claim-jsa/check-if-you-can-get-jsa/ (https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/help-if-on-a-low-income/jobseekers-allowance-jsa/before-you-claim-jsa/check-if-you-can-get-jsa/)

Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: lucgeo on 26-04-19, 06:03PM
6 months contribution based jobseekers then means tested or income support .

Apologies once again, I have passed on the info, and read the supplied thread by overworked, I'm reading it that contribution based for 6 months means that their redundancy money and any savings they have will be disregarded for the first 6 months?? If they need to go onto income support after, how far back are their banking records requested for?? Should they have a house refurb or new car in those six months, or will they be penalised for that??
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: Welshie on 26-04-19, 07:06PM
Honestly think but don't know for sure that it is the amount of savings in bank the day you make you're claim for means tested benefit . I would be very cautious though as if you have a partner even on a low income you receive very little help !
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: eric79 on 26-04-19, 08:25PM
Quote from: tricky251713 link=topic=16929.msg227044#msg227044
It comes to my informal meeting... I am told the heat map says 10-6 Sunday to Wed night which fits my contracted hours perfectly... I have never done a 10-6 on a Sunday, we always did a 4pm start to enable the big moves to get done before the night fillers come in. That was the request of our previous manager and nobody has ever mentioned it ever since. Then came the availability form... mine had the computer generated ticks showing the 10-6 Sunday to Wed night. I was handed it a few weeks ago over night and told they wanted it back an hour later, no chance to take it home to discuss with my partner so I didn’t touch the availability form for the fear of being shafted when it came to finding out the situation with the jobs. Turns out because the form says what it says, I have to accept what they say.

I can’t do a night shift on a Sunday now anyway due to needing to be awake on a Monday to look after my younger child, she is one. The next bit involved the manager doing the meeting telling me something he shouldn’t have in order to help me a bit. If I am to refuse the hours that the heat map says, he was to ask for my resignation there and then! I told him I can’t do the hours but don’t take a refusal and he said he’ll go back to the store manager to explain things from my view.

My issues are why do they get to play god and decide who gets to take redundancy and who doesn’t. I haven’t even been offered another role in store, not redundancy yet my colleague has been offered other roles (that she could do but won’t) so she gets to be offered redundancy. They are treating us completely different and in my opinion unfairly. She feels betrayed but I feel like she gets the better end of the deal and I’m getting shafted! My next informal meeting is to be Tuesday after Easter Monday. I now face no job with no redundancy and a house to keep afloat while my colleague who has done the exact shifts as me for 7 years to go happily with money to pay off her mortgage and then come back in 6 months to one of the roles being offered to her now. (She also has a job outside Tesco where she can up her hours easily.

Sorry for the essay but I don’t have a clue where to go with this. ACAS basically said I don’t have much of a leg to stand on.... 

You should have been given the availability form BEFORE your informal meeting. You had to tick all the hours you were available to work, the maximum days and hours you could work and most importantly the minimum number of days and hours you were prepared to work. There was a column for other departments you would consider working on.

This information along with your "score" were then used to match you to a vacancy.  If you job match then you have no choice in taking the job. If you didn't match (because of your availability or minimum hours you were prepared to work) then you would be at risk of redundancy and would have been given a letter detailing your redundancy offer.  You would then start the formal consultation process which would involve either applying for other vacancies in your store (or another on your group) or choosing to accept redundancy.

If the above didn't happen they haven't followed the process and you need to get a rep/ area organiser involved asap to get it resolved.
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: DJL on 26-04-19, 09:11PM
If it’s computer generated then clearly it isn’t your current availability, I’m assuming these hours were close to what you used to work, and either:
A) you wanted to stay but changed your mind after seeing the £££ package
or
B) the process hadn’t been followed?

Forgive my tone but it’s a few weeks since first meetings took place and the new structure starts in 2, what was the reasons for agreeing to the hours, but now wanting to change?

If the process has not been followed, then get it in writing ASAP to your manager, like I said this needs dealt with now!
Title: Re: Structure change/redundancy.
Post by: letmego on 26-04-19, 11:36PM
If you didn't sign the computer generated availability form with ticks you haven't agreed to these hours! If you signed it thats confirmation you agree. It' that simple  8-)