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Very Little Helps => All departments => Topic started by: dfl on 16-04-19, 02:41PM

Title: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: dfl on 16-04-19, 02:41PM
I'm a dotcom driver but recently developed pain in an old injury, Asked and indeed have line (for about 6 weeks) for adjustments to be made from GP, stating no heavy lifting etc. have tried to get manager to put me on C&C which i find doesn't aggravate the problem as the driving/delivering does but i've been put on checkouts instead, manager claims that's all he can do and yet he now on occasion has put non drivers on C&C (which i could have done) and in some instances the non driver isn't even able to bring the van in and out the yard (and may be breaking rules i think having the keys on them even if van is at the C&C area), same doesn't unload the van when done and leaves it for a driver to bring in which also means log book isn't being done till next day. Would i have any reasonable grounds for a grievance as I feel i'm being pushed out or would it be more likely that the manager just doesn't want to take chances on me hurting myself further ?. Personally i'm inclined knowing the managers ways up till now its probably the former.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: alf on 16-04-19, 02:57PM

"oh hey, i'd like to make a grievance as my manager is taking precautions to protect my health"

bizarre.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: Welshie on 16-04-19, 03:31PM
The manager has given you lighter duties to help you recover  and is adhering to the doctors note by the sounds of things .
You don't get to choose where your lighter duties are so it is irrelevant what is going on at C&C . 
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: dfl on 16-04-19, 04:01PM
I understand those comments because i havent explained full circumstances, to begin with i received huge pressure to continue driving instead of light duties to the point it was in my view harassing behaviour. My concern now is because i refused to do so the c&c which i suggested made perfect sense isnt being offered because manager wants all or nothing, and would rather just "move me on".
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: mexicopete on 16-04-19, 05:20PM
@dfl.....i have to say that thissounds like the Tosco we all know and love...they would always cut their noses off to spite their face IMHO. :-X :-X :-X
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: panther on 16-04-19, 05:42PM
I understand those comments because i havent explained full circumstances, to begin with i received huge pressure to continue driving instead of light duties to the point it was in my view harassing behaviour. My concern now is because i refused to do so the c&c which i suggested made perfect sense isnt being offered because manager wants all or nothing, and would rather just "move me on".

I'm sorry, I agree with Welshie. I don't believe, for one minute, that any manager would let you do something that didn't make their life easier (From what you say, C&C would have done that) You are obviously not happy with checkouts, but normally you do not get to pick and choose what 'light duties' you can perform. Heavy lifting will still be on C&C. Sorry, my opinion
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: dfl on 16-04-19, 06:15PM
Panther, its not the heavy lifting as much as bending knee thats the problem, c&c one box at a time and no flats is piece of cake in comparison. I do however appreciate you opinion.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: optout on 16-04-19, 07:08PM
..anyone for a game of Tosco chicken.?...I think the manager is trying to get you back for 'being awkward' . If it were me on the receiving end of this I would do the following:

1)over the next couple of weeks, come to enjoy working the checkouts (obviously not the response that the manager wants).
2) before your note runs out, get a new one that suggests a 'gradual' return to your previous duties is needed. After all going from light duties straight back to your previous work may be toooooo much toooooo soon. So an intermediate step would be required (hello C&C).

3) This intermediate step might take a while, until you get your strength back and feel really, really, really (did I say 'really') confident that your knees can handle the work load.

4) Obviously after many weeks getting back to your original strength, you may become strong enough to return to your usual duties (or you may not).
Obviously steps 2, 3,and 4 would not even have been needed, if your manager had not 'over-thought' things. And when this time comes you may like to remind your manager of this fact. The words 'I told you so' are often worth waiting for for their justification.
Just my opinion (-*-)
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: Welshie on 16-04-19, 08:18PM
Opt out  , why ? Just to screw with a manager ??? The manager is supporting the light duties , you'd be the first one on here saying put in a grievance if he wasn't.
You cannot say have a doctor's note stating "No heavy lifting" and then ask  to go to C&C  , the totes are still.picked the same way and will have the same weight in them as the ones for delivery. They still have to be loaded and unloaded to/from van which still entails bending and stretching . As i said previously you cant pick your light duties even if you dont like being stuck in a store , on a check-out when you are used to being out on the road !
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: Walker on 16-04-19, 08:41PM
Honestly it sounds like you got the doctor to write the wrong fit note... Should have been a 'limited walking/ no climbing stairs' fit note.

If I was a manager supporting an employee with a fit note that specified no heavy lifting I wouldn't let them on click and collect either...
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: dfl on 16-04-19, 09:26PM
Interesting comments and thanks for them all so far, the checkouts is fine, im actually liking it, the managers been well informed its only the bending of the knee(s) thats troublesome, loading or unloading a van one box at a time (as it is normally done) does not require the knees to be bent, i speak from having done it many times, however climbing stairs in flats for example carrying boxes is a whole different ball game.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: spike_pkh on 17-04-19, 12:38AM
"I put in a fit note for light duties.. now my manager has put me on light duties. Do i have a case for a grievance?"

Sometimes i think half of you lot just like to complain
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: genome on 17-04-19, 02:27AM
to be honest sounds like the manager doing the right thing. if it says no heavy lifting on your note then that's what he's ensuring.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: dfl on 17-04-19, 02:39PM
..anyone for a game of Tosco chicken.?...I think the manager is trying to get you back for 'being awkward' . If it were me on the receiving end of this I would do the following:

1)over the next couple of weeks, come to enjoy working the checkouts (obviously not the response that the manager wants).
2) before your note runs out, get a new one that suggests a 'gradual' return to your previous duties is needed. After all going from light duties straight back to your previous work may be toooooo much toooooo soon. So an intermediate step would be required (hello C&C).

3) This intermediate step might take a while, until you get your strength back and feel really, really, really (did I say 'really') confident that your knees can handle the work load.

4) Obviously after many weeks getting back to your original strength, you may become strong enough to return to your usual duties (or you may not).
Obviously steps 2, 3,and 4 would not even have been needed, if your manager had not 'over-thought' things. And when this time comes you may like to remind your manager of this fact. The words 'I told you so' are often worth waiting for for their justification.
Just my opinion (-*-)

optout, spot on with your reply, i agree that the manager has indeed overthought things, and its such a shame too that some managers think including this one that anything you get a line for isn't a legit reason to come off your usual duty, the pressure he initially exerted on me to return was wrong. he has even refused several times to involve Occupational health who's involvement I have requested. I'm just concerned that he isn't making attempts to move me elsewhere for "being awkward"
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: dfl on 20-04-19, 06:40AM
Well, seems like manager is still determined, few weeks left of line, wants me to do couple of days driving followed by couple of days checkouts as phased return next week, when asked about c & c says no he's covering that with "non drivers", he's some cookie, his non drivers don't bring the van in or out the yard, sometimes isn't even their name on the driver allocation. Wonder if its even legal for the non drivers to have the van keys on them whilst in the van
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: optout on 20-04-19, 09:57PM
As @Walker says (or seems to imply) in reply#9
Better to get a more specific note at some stage, saying no heavy lifting upstairs.
As you have said, the stairs are the problem and this is the part of the job you are unable to do at present.

This will reduce the managers ability to 'interpret' the note to his own ends.
When you have gotten the more specific note, then involve occupational health, if required, on a more formal level.
Remember that it is usually better to say that you may improve at a point in the future, than give an ultimatum saying 'never'. Of course when the date arrives at the point in the future, you could always extend the time required at that time, if you still need time and haven't fully recovered.
All depends on doctors note and advice. get this updated note first.

As far as I am aware, it is not up to your manager to say if you can or can't see occupational health. Your manager is probably not a doctor, and even if he was, he is not YOUR doctor. If you want OH involved speak to your personnel manager directly.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: Slimjim51 on 20-04-19, 11:23PM
Christ on a bike, I'm soooo glad I've left the s*** hole. Get out and get a job somewhere else. Tesco is a joke.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: Thomas_09 on 22-04-19, 10:30AM
Does anyone find the process for Crc checks poor? How many drivers actually have them in stores?
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: Voiceofreason on 22-04-19, 06:37PM
It seems like the manager is doing his job and does seem like you thought you could get out of doing your job and think you’d have an easy life.. we have drivers like that in our store too but click and collect is actually much busier than the vans and over the course of the day can actually lift/load/unload 3/4 times as much weight so realistically if you can carry that you’d be able to complete most van trips. Our click and collect drivers actually quite like going out in a van for a rest.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: gomezz on 22-04-19, 07:09PM
The difference being that on C&C you are only carrying the trays a few paces on the level to the customer's car.  You need to also factor in the distance carried the nature of rough, uneven ground, squeezing and twisting between parked cars and down cluttered hallways not to mention negotiating flights of steps.  That said I would rather be on the road rather than covering C&C.  For one thing, easier to take a look break!
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: optout on 22-04-19, 09:05PM
The human anatomy is complex. This complexity ensures that walking with weight upon level ground, and walking with (or without) weight up and down stairs cause completely different stresses upon different part of the anatomy, be that the musculature of the body, the skeletal system, the nervous system, ligaments, tendons etc. Tesco managers are not doctors, even if they did do a first aid course once, and they can still remember most of it.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: Welshie on 22-04-19, 11:10PM
But the doctors letter states " no heavy lifting" , you don't need to be a doctor to realise that totes in c&c can be heavy and need to be lifted !!
The anatomy of humans may be complicated or the letter may be incorrect but the manager is supporting the colleague and the colleague still bloody moaning .
It's colleagues like this that make it difficult for others who genuinely need return to work plans and manage to get their doctor to give the correct information on fit notes 😠😠
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: dfl on 23-04-19, 07:21AM
There is no personnel managers in most stores now to my knowledge, also this is a genuine problem to climb stairs on the driving, c & c is not a problem because as many have mentioned there is no need to bend knees.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: Welshie on 23-04-19, 12:03PM
The problem is your fit note says "no heavy lifting" not no bending knees . Yet you are accusing the manager of being difficult , the fault lies with you for not ensuring the fit note has the correct information. 
If someone came in with a bad back and fit note stated no heavy lifting and the manager insisted on putting them on C&C , the manager would be at fault .
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: optout on 23-04-19, 08:06PM
Manager has also ignored/refused access to OH.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: Welshie on 24-04-19, 08:10AM
Maybe to help dfl you could post the policy where it states that colleagues can demand to be referred to occupational health, as the policies I have read all say " your manager may decide to refer you" and gives reasons why a manager may decide to refer you.

@dfl it's all very well for people to advise you to string out your lighter duties and hint that you may never be able to return to your own job BUT  keep in mind T*sco are under no obligation to find you another job if you're not fit to do you're own.  With the recent restructuring there will be few, if any, vacancies and it isn't like it was years ago, if you're not up to your job they'll be more than happy to manage you out of it and replace you with someone on a flexi contract, less holidays and not getting paid sick from day 1.

Rightly or wrongly things have changed.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: dfl on 24-04-19, 12:19PM
Things have changed I agree, as far as the policy goes it states that you don't have to be off work to have OH get involved but that the managers reason for refusal, I haven't seen anything in the reasons that a manager may refer you that are differing from my circumstance.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: optout on 25-04-19, 10:57PM
Why on earth would a manager refuse access to Occupational Health? Is this Tesco Policy? Please Welchie explain.


Maybe Walchie you could explain where about in tesco policy it states that your employer must supply toilet roll in the toilets?

I would suggest, getting your manager to refuse you access to Occupational Health in front of witnesses or put the refusal in writing. And then contact Dave Lewis's office and ask them to answer the the questions in my previous 2 paras.
If at some point in the future your injury is exacerbated, this may become important at any tribunal.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: Welshie on 25-04-19, 11:30PM
I'm simply asking where it states that an employee can demand to be referred to occupational health .
Why would a manager refer everyone that required light duties for a short time to them
And don't imagine injury will get worse by sitting on check-outs .
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: optout on 26-04-19, 12:01AM
The request is not from the manger, the request is from the employee (and might I add in the companies interest) and the manager is obstructing this access to a medical professional who may be able to prolong the employees career. Access to OH is I am quite certain an element of any companies safe system of working. But Hey do we REALLY need a 'policy for that'.

If the employee is eventually 'managed' out of the business and a Constructive Dismissal case is brought, what do you think the judge will make of the fact that OH access was requested by the employee BUT refused by the company? Do you imagine the following conversation; Tesco Brief ....'Its not in the tesco policy your honour'....Judge 'oh, well that's alright then'.

Here's another question for you; Where in tesco policy does it state that a tesco employee is entitled to 'breathe whilst working'? I have been looking for this policy for ages, but I won't hold my breath.

Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: alf on 26-04-19, 12:15AM
This whole situation is getting even more bonkers, in summary,

As for this OH business, OH exist to keep/get employees back to work, it exists for the benefit of the employer essentially. Why would Tesco involve OH at this stage (emphasis on "this stage", as I'm not saying OH should never be involved) when DFL has been to a doctor, received a fit note for 6 weeks, and is currently working light duties as dictated.

Besides it seems DFL ultimately wants to work C&C, I cant see a situation in were OH involvement would aid that. If it came to it neither Tesco nor OH are going to want to move someone with physical health problems onto a physically demanding department.

And opt,  you have mentioned managers aren't doctors, and how an injury being exacerbated could be important to a tribunal. Yet you are totally ignoring that the manager in this instance is the one following the medical advice given by a doctor, they have put DFL on light duties as dictated by the fit note, and they have refused to fulfil DFLs  request to work C&C, which would go against the fit note.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: alf on 26-04-19, 12:21AM
As for this latest OH drama, if it gets as far dismissal OH will need to be involved.

But it's no where near that stage, and besides Tesco may well say sod it, we'll keep him on checkouts.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: Redshoes on 26-04-19, 11:26AM
You need a passport first before occupational health. This is filled out by you then reviewed with your manager and placed in your file but neither needed if everything covered on return to work plan and not ongoing.

The passport covers what you can do on your best and worst days and should be used to stop you having to go through the same thing time and time again.  It's in your file to refer to and to confirm the way forward.  This should also be the case with a return to work plan.

Depending of recovery time or severity the process should be return to work plan, passport and then occupational health.  We have someone who is referred back to occupational health every six weeks and is on light duties until cleared by OH.
 
One more point, as OH is about the most private health things your permission has to be given to go forward but more than that the reading of the report is limited.  It can't be seen by your manager unless you grant permission.  It's seen by group pm and they will just tell store light duties and agree a job role but they won't say details.  Your report might say that due to the medication you are on you need to be on light duties because the medication needs the chance to work but to those in work you look fit and healthy.  You do get to see your own report and if you want to you can hand a copy into work. You can say restricted view or seen by all managers, that's up to you but report will be held in a sealed envelope within your file.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: dfl on 29-04-19, 06:12PM
One more point I'd make though is that the manager's reason (or lie) for not putting me on c & c isn't in my view anything to do with lifting as again it has been made clear the only issue is bending knees ( not an issue one basket at a time/c&c/no stairs ), I was told I couldn't do that (even though I've requested it many times) because non drivers are covering that, it's untrue as the rotas clearly show other drivers indeed being on c & c, be it new starts and longer term drivers, but I've been excluded from it and given the "non drivers" cover story.
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: Welshie on 29-04-19, 06:42PM
dfl - you miss the point that others are trying to make, you can tell your manager it's about bending knees and climbing stairs till you are blue in the face but as your doctor's note states "NO heavy lifting ", your manager is doing the right thing.

Go back to your GP get a revised note with correct information on it and then you would have an argument to make !!
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: dfl on 02-05-19, 10:51AM
it says "For light duties - no heavy lifting or bulky box lifting. avoid duties that require bending the knees excessively such as during deliveries".
however line is still in force and yet was given a heavy run to do in last few days which i refused and had to get managers to change for a smaller one (and it was reluctantly done).
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: Voiceofreason on 02-05-19, 09:20PM
I bet the other drivers love you at the moment then, especially the driver who’s route you took off them.  :D  sounds like a good job to have though, C + C or easy/light routes for the same money as the driver who had to take the heavy one. Where do I apply 😂
Title: Re: Driver being pushed out ?
Post by: dfl on 03-05-19, 04:04PM
Eh no, other driver knows they have helped me out and its made quite clear by me I owe them one, quite sure any colleague including me when better would help another out.