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Very Little Helps => Stores => Topic started by: beentheredoneit on 01-10-19, 08:04PM

Title: Food Stock Managers
Post by: beentheredoneit on 01-10-19, 08:04PM
Hi
I thought that as we are in a rather strange ( even by their standards), it might be useful to have a thread for food stock managers who have or have not lost their positions. If we could keep to this topic, it may be of benefit to those affected.
The timescale of 6 months has been memtioned.  In my briefing no timescale was mentioned, so I told Ski would hang on for redundancy.
Anyone experienced different - one near me was told 12 months (large extra), another took .com team manager almost straight away .....
Experiences please.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Stockman on 02-10-19, 06:30AM
Do you think redundancy will be offered in 6 months? There is a vacancy instore just now I could move into but would rather hold out for redundancy if its on the table. All I keep getting told is its an annual review, so soft structure change and not a formal process.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lucgeo on 02-10-19, 07:39AM
It's the £30,000 capped question  8-)

You need to go with your gut here, but there are a lot of stock control managers affected and little alternative roles available. I think it is a good idea having this thread, as all can exchange information given, or lack of in some cases!

All are being told different, or nothing at all. One manager (sorry username escapes me )has regularly posted to update the unwillingness of their senior area group personnel manager, to respond to questions posed, or reply to emails requesting clarification.

How many times were the CA's in the past years, informed in the group chat from the SM, prior to consultations starting, that there's "no redundancy!" Five times, in my store! Some panicked before consultations started, either leaving or taking less hours on another dept, to then find that those going into consultation, who wouldn't drop hours, or weren't job matched, were getting redundancy!

And now, Dave Lewis is bailing out, which tells you what apart from he waited for his payout :-X
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: In the loop 1. on 02-10-19, 10:21AM
Food stock here. Not been told anything. In an extra. Heard its a soft change but only in affected stores. I’d be quite happy taking the money rather than the new role !
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 02-10-19, 12:44PM
I’m going to ride it out till the 6 month timeframe is up.  I don’t want to do any other role bar the one I currently do, and they can’t force me out of my contract, so will carry on as I do, helping my team deliver a good job despite the huge negative influences of the replenishment teams due to lack of resources!

Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Om12nv on 02-10-19, 04:46PM
I’m going to ride it out till the 6 month timeframe is up.  I don’t want to do any other role bar the one I currently do, and they can’t force me out of my contract, so will carry on as I do, helping my team deliver a good job despite the huge negative influences of the replenishment teams due to lack of resources!
They are trying to strongly push me out of role into another, obviously resisting and seeking unions help...legal help if it gets to that point!!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 02-10-19, 05:09PM
Om12nv, you can’t be forced or pushed to do anything you don’t want; remember this is an informal process at this stage, so the tone and behaviour of your senior managers must be raised as a concern.

FS Managers are given the opportunity to apply for any role they see within the area they live, regular conversations to be had and an agreement made, if acceptable within 2-3 months.  Failing that this can be extended to 6 months where a decision will surely be made by corporate, on the longevity of this role.

Don’t be pushed over, raise your concerns.  They legally must offer alternative employment however if you take into account the legal perspective, the alternative must be ‘suitable’ as what is suitable for me might not be for you, and vice versa!  Stick  to your guns
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJS1949 on 02-10-19, 08:01PM
Why can’t the company just offer voluntary redundancy across the whole workforce. Those that want to stay can those that don’t can go.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: T.C.1 on 02-10-19, 08:23PM
Probably because Tesco know if it was voluntary redundancy they would never staff a shop on top of the vacancy's they have now.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: genome on 03-10-19, 11:36AM
Simply they can't afford to pay out that much.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Srgd2170 on 03-10-19, 02:28PM
I keep asking my lead people partner how many stock managers are being kept in the company and what criteria is being used to establish who stays and who goes in the role. She didn’t reply to start off, then I kept emailing until I got a reply off her. She answered my questions like a politician and gave no answers. So I’ve asked again and will keep on and on and on........
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: londoner83 on 03-10-19, 06:39PM
Think a lot of food stock managers have long lengths of service and thus experience. Think the worry is if they offered voluntary redundancies too many would leave and the business would end up in the same situation it did with merchandising ie too many quit leaving a mass of vacancies and lots of training needed by people remaining to up-skill themselves
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 03-10-19, 06:48PM
I keep asking my lead people partner how many stock managers are being kept in the company and what criteria is being used to establish who stays and who goes in the role. She didn’t reply to start off, then I kept emailing until I got a reply off her. She answered my questions like a politician and gave no answers. So I’ve asked again and will keep on and on and on........

Email Emma.Taylor@tesco.com

She UK People Partner, she ‘may’ offer something more than political BS!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Om12nv on 08-10-19, 05:41PM
Last week I pushed back and said I am happy with my position and not looking to change...this week half year reviews are back and I am a miss on my “behaviour” 🤔
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: forrestgimp on 08-10-19, 05:46PM
Lol, That is so trasparent as to be not there. Any tribunal would see that for what it is.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 08-10-19, 08:27PM
Last week I pushed back and said I am happy with my position and not looking to change...this week half year reviews are back and I am a miss on my “behaviour” 🤔
That’s BS by the way! Unless you have not been doing your role to the expected standard, and if that were the case you should have been spoken to before your review, then you have to put in a discrimination grievance against your line manager!

The review is not the place to tell you about any issues, what is spoken about should not be new to you, therefore any ‘miss’ would be overturned and set to standard score!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: madness on 08-10-19, 08:45PM
I keep asking my lead people partner how many stock managers are being kept in the company and what criteria is being used to establish who stays and who goes in the role. She didn’t reply to start off, then I kept emailing until I got a reply off her. She answered my questions like a politician and gave no answers. So I’ve asked again and will keep on and on and on........
unofficially our store once found out that a headcount of 10 or more GAs meant a manager stayed I think it was the first time round of nights to days when the non food stock control manager role went as they only had  6-8 staff at the time.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 08-10-19, 08:49PM
I'm quite interested to know how they measure the behavior criterion, as to the layman it sounds like office politics holds sway in who gets promoted and how people get rated on performance (we all know it does, but having an implied political measure such as "behaviour" confirms and legitimises that it's who you are, not how you do that gets you promoted, which is not a good thing").

Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: madness on 08-10-19, 09:39PM
Certain roles are easy to get promoted from. Or do certsin things for the store ie lots of community nonsense charity work on store time of course. The service manager role that has mainly gone was an easy route up to the next easiest role of personel manager. I've seen pms progress through the company without ever having had a filling manager role.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Redshoes on 09-10-19, 09:02AM
I'm quite interested to know how they measure the behavior criterion, as to the layman it sounds like office politics holds sway in who gets promoted and how people get rated on performance (we all know it does, but having an implied political measure such as "behaviour" confirms and legitimises that it's who you are, not how you do that gets you promoted, which is not a good thing").

Generally it would be behind the scenes against shop floor. It's ok to complain and challenge in an office but not to bring it to shop floor and involve others, bring down the team. It's hard when it's personal to you and I speak from experience as I have been through this myself, twice. The compliance role was left hanging a very long time. They knew the role was vulnerable and had to live with it. I don't honestly know what is better as its hard to live with this hanging over you but if you have warning you can do things to help live mortgage insurance and look at moving into other roles. You can make life choices like not buying that new car but on the other hand you have to live with knowing your job may not be safe. On the other side of things a structure change with no warning does not have this hanging over you.
I think the questions to ask are ones that can be answered. Until a full structure change comes a lot of the questions can't be answered. If store managers and people partners do know exact figures of roles being removed in time they will be told not to give out information and until it comes it will only be at best a guide.
I think the questions to be asked are about vacancies now or upcoming in your area.
-details of vacancies now and upcoming
-are you going to be invited to apply for vacancies
-what happens if you opt not to apply, does this mean that you have chosen to make yourself vulnerable and will it be held against you
-expected time scales
-will any vacancies be restricted to vulnerable roles and if so when
The list goes on
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 09-10-19, 10:17AM
It's also important to ask how these performance measures are measured, if there is no structure or measurable elements that constitutes a rating, it could serve Tesco managers as a backdoor to illegitimately start the SYP process against said managers as a way to save the company money by "managing them out of the business", it also could raise further questions on what oversite or governance is in place to make sure that the SYP process is used legitimately.

When a company has strong corporate governance measures in place, litigation is managed better as a result.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lucgeo on 09-10-19, 10:56AM
A miss on behaviour, is so random, that it can't surely be recognised as such. Behaviour, is an ongoing assessment, needing to be highlighted and met throughout the assessment period. I would certainly challenge that, as should for any future reason, your criteria plays a part, this could be deemed a negative.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Om12nv on 09-10-19, 12:37PM
It’s all about being part of “that clique”...I’m not....”career laughs” are rife in this place.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: BarryZola on 09-10-19, 08:31PM
On the face of it, this seems quite simple. The Food Stock control job is not going to be there in 6 months or whatever it is in your store. The job will be gone. You can't carry on doing it. With that said, don't you just have 2 options really?

Apply for other managerial jobs if you see any roles advertised that seem acceptable to yourself in the next 6 months if your wish is to stay with the company in a managerial role.

Or:

Don't apply for any other jobs within the 6 month period as you feel they're not suitable and then your job is axed at the end of the 6 months. At this point they surely have no other option but to make you redundant and pay you off as your job no longer exists. Obviously if you're reasonably long service and would welcome an early retirement or a fresh start elsewhere than this would seem like a good option. Really, what else can the company actually do, legally?

Obviously this is a very important time and it would probably be advisable to take some kind of legal advice if you're looking to ride out the 6 months and see what happens. My guess is they'll get as many food stockies into other roles voluntarily and then when it comes towards the end of the 6 month period they'll offer the remaining people who have dug their heels in redundancy.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: coffeemate on 09-10-19, 08:54PM
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lackofinterest on 09-10-19, 09:29PM
if you are offered a similar role without loss of hours or pay and same shifts then they don't have to pay you redundancy. if they can only offer mickey mouse hours and/or shifts you don't want then dismissal would be unfair. in my opinion you'd win at a tribunal. redundancy not offered for one reason and one reason only.

Administrator Comment Edited. Nomad
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: stockstaffreduction on 09-10-19, 10:01PM
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.

I would be very interested to know where you have obtained this piece of information from.
There are still a good number of Food Stock Managers who are not prepared to move.
I can see the People Team busy in 2020 attending a large number of Employment Tribunals.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Paranoid pariah on 10-10-19, 06:07PM
See now I'm a Stock and Admin Manager and have had this conversation with my manager and have been told it's me going. Very Fishy
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 10-10-19, 07:06PM
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
Totally incorrect, both legally speaking and company process!

The offered role must be ‘suitable’ as mentioned, a tribunal would find in favour of the complainer
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Redshoes on 11-10-19, 07:44AM
In the metro structure change people were job matched. If you turn down the job that was offered you did put yourself into the category of being dismissed. It was accept the job you have been offered or not. It was not a choice off accept this or one of the other roles that are available in the store or area.
With the stock control manager change, are they tracking jobs as they come up and are turned down? If you are being monitored on this I think it's unfair, the job is either gone now or not and as soft change implies it is not forced. Until it's forced you can not have not moving held against you but if you really don't want redundancy you should not try and cling onto a job you have been told is going.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 11-10-19, 08:03AM
Tesco has been caught out in the "soft structure change" arguement before where an employment tribunal decreed that not only was the consultation process and disciplinary metered out for not accepting tye changes ridiculous, but the the addition of the responsibilities of another management role added to the existimg one going through the change did not meet the definition of "soft structure change".

As for rejecting jobs offered to you, the law still has the last say on this, specifically around "reasonable" redeployment.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 11-10-19, 08:17AM
Quote from: coffeemate link=topic=17075.msg233771#msg233771
date=1570650875
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
Totally incorrect, both legally speaking and company process!

The offered role must be ‘suitable’ as mentioned, a tribunal would find in favour of the complainer
I now have a grievance pending a hearing on this situation.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Om12nv on 11-10-19, 09:04AM
Global Moderator Comment Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).

Any idea who is hearing it? People partner or lead people partner?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 11-10-19, 09:15AM
Global Moderator Comment Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).

Waiting to hear . ...
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: coffeemate on 11-10-19, 10:16AM
This information is correct, I have been informed by the people partner. Yes Tesco have to offer you a suitable alternative but all team manager roles are suitable as long as they are within a reasonable distance.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Om12nv on 11-10-19, 10:37AM
Diminishing of workload ?
In my PLACE of work (not the wider business) ?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: stockstaffreduction on 11-10-19, 11:07AM
Have you had this conversation recorded on paper?
If my People Partner said this to me, I would want it recorded in an meeting with my union rep present.




This information is correct, I have been informed by the people partner. Yes Tesco have to offer you a suitable alternative but all team manager roles are suitable as long as they are within a reasonable distance.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Srgd2170 on 11-10-19, 11:23AM
Quote from: coffeemate link=topic=17075.msg233771#msg233771
date=1570650875
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
Totally incorrect, both legally speaking and company process!

The offered role must be ‘suitable’ as mentioned, a tribunal would find in favour of the complainer
I now have a grievance pending a hearing on this situation.

Who have you taken the grievance out on out of interest and how did you word it??
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 11-10-19, 11:33AM
This information is correct, I have been informed by the people partner. Yes Tesco have to offer you a suitable alternative but all team manager roles are suitable as long as they are within a reasonable distance.

No they are not!!  Just to be clear, what you are suggesting is a manager should be made to do any manager role, because they are classed as a ‘manager?’

I would like to point out if this was followed, a tribunal would find in favour of a complainer should an alternative not be deemed as ‘suitable’ as it is individual to the person, not the role!  You can’t say somebody who works days can be ‘suitably’ made to work nights, or even twighlight for that matter!

Away and have a work with yourself!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lucgeo on 11-10-19, 12:46PM
 8-) along the same lines as a CA could only be job matched to their own department, even though their contract would state they are a CUSTOMER ASSISTANT. Then they had the choice to apply for alternative roles within the store, or other store's vacancies, or take redundancy. Same principle, but different standards for management ???
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 12-10-19, 10:02AM
The 4 main criterias a judge will look on is Pay, location, hours of work and differences in the role,  for pay and location, unless the employee is willing to move further away from home to work, then any longer commute would likely mean increased cost on travel and less time to spend at home, where possible, the employer should look to re-deploy current employees to other stores equidistant or closer to where they live, they should not be out of pocket on either pay or location.

Hours should both be the same as is in previous role and should not conflict with an employees availability (if it does then further probing would be made to ascertain why said employee is unavailable, if it's for a reason such as not wanting to work lates, then the judge won't look favourably on that.)

The last criteria is the one that Tesco is trying to hornshoe in as "soft structure changes" if the judge were to be presented with role packs of the previous role and new role. They would deem the additional responsibilities of a now redundant manager role being added to another managers role is not a "soft structure change" (I've not seen this phrase being used anywhere else before it does seem that it's just Tesco trying to get out of paying people redundancy).

Likewise other aspects such as skilled elements of responsibilities etc will also be taken into account on whether the role is suitable.

Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Om12nv on 14-10-19, 10:48AM
Anyone been offered/forced into the Stock & Admin role?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: fatboy on 14-10-19, 01:15PM
Can you be made to work hours outside you're availability window.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lucgeo on 14-10-19, 01:21PM
 8-) NO!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: In the loop 1. on 14-10-19, 02:23PM
Been told recently the job is now merged into one. I’ll wait for redundancy thanks.