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Very Little Helps => Stores => Topic started by: beentheredoneit on 01-10-19, 08:04PM

Title: Food Stock Managers
Post by: beentheredoneit on 01-10-19, 08:04PM
Hi
I thought that as we are in a rather strange ( even by their standards), it might be useful to have a thread for food stock managers who have or have not lost their positions. If we could keep to this topic, it may be of benefit to those affected.
The timescale of 6 months has been memtioned.  In my briefing no timescale was mentioned, so I told Ski would hang on for redundancy.
Anyone experienced different - one near me was told 12 months (large extra), another took .com team manager almost straight away .....
Experiences please.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Stockman on 02-10-19, 06:30AM
Do you think redundancy will be offered in 6 months? There is a vacancy instore just now I could move into but would rather hold out for redundancy if its on the table. All I keep getting told is its an annual review, so soft structure change and not a formal process.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lucgeo on 02-10-19, 07:39AM
It's the £30,000 capped question  8-)

You need to go with your gut here, but there are a lot of stock control managers affected and little alternative roles available. I think it is a good idea having this thread, as all can exchange information given, or lack of in some cases!

All are being told different, or nothing at all. One manager (sorry username escapes me )has regularly posted to update the unwillingness of their senior area group personnel manager, to respond to questions posed, or reply to emails requesting clarification.

How many times were the CA's in the past years, informed in the group chat from the SM, prior to consultations starting, that there's "no redundancy!" Five times, in my store! Some panicked before consultations started, either leaving or taking less hours on another dept, to then find that those going into consultation, who wouldn't drop hours, or weren't job matched, were getting redundancy!

And now, Dave Lewis is bailing out, which tells you what apart from he waited for his payout :-X
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: In the loop 1. on 02-10-19, 10:21AM
Food stock here. Not been told anything. In an extra. Heard its a soft change but only in affected stores. I’d be quite happy taking the money rather than the new role !
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 02-10-19, 12:44PM
I’m going to ride it out till the 6 month timeframe is up.  I don’t want to do any other role bar the one I currently do, and they can’t force me out of my contract, so will carry on as I do, helping my team deliver a good job despite the huge negative influences of the replenishment teams due to lack of resources!

Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 02-10-19, 04:46PM
I’m going to ride it out till the 6 month timeframe is up.  I don’t want to do any other role bar the one I currently do, and they can’t force me out of my contract, so will carry on as I do, helping my team deliver a good job despite the huge negative influences of the replenishment teams due to lack of resources!
They are trying to strongly push me out of role into another, obviously resisting and seeking unions help...legal help if it gets to that point!!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 02-10-19, 05:09PM
Om12nv, you can’t be forced or pushed to do anything you don’t want; remember this is an informal process at this stage, so the tone and behaviour of your senior managers must be raised as a concern.

FS Managers are given the opportunity to apply for any role they see within the area they live, regular conversations to be had and an agreement made, if acceptable within 2-3 months.  Failing that this can be extended to 6 months where a decision will surely be made by corporate, on the longevity of this role.

Don’t be pushed over, raise your concerns.  They legally must offer alternative employment however if you take into account the legal perspective, the alternative must be ‘suitable’ as what is suitable for me might not be for you, and vice versa!  Stick  to your guns
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJS1949 on 02-10-19, 08:01PM
Why can’t the company just offer voluntary redundancy across the whole workforce. Those that want to stay can those that don’t can go.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: T.C.1 on 02-10-19, 08:23PM
Probably because Tesco know if it was voluntary redundancy they would never staff a shop on top of the vacancy's they have now.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: genome on 03-10-19, 11:36AM
Simply they can't afford to pay out that much.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Srgd2170 on 03-10-19, 02:28PM
I keep asking my lead people partner how many stock managers are being kept in the company and what criteria is being used to establish who stays and who goes in the role. She didn’t reply to start off, then I kept emailing until I got a reply off her. She answered my questions like a politician and gave no answers. So I’ve asked again and will keep on and on and on........
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: londoner83 on 03-10-19, 06:39PM
Think a lot of food stock managers have long lengths of service and thus experience. Think the worry is if they offered voluntary redundancies too many would leave and the business would end up in the same situation it did with merchandising ie too many quit leaving a mass of vacancies and lots of training needed by people remaining to up-skill themselves
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 03-10-19, 06:48PM
I keep asking my lead people partner how many stock managers are being kept in the company and what criteria is being used to establish who stays and who goes in the role. She didn’t reply to start off, then I kept emailing until I got a reply off her. She answered my questions like a politician and gave no answers. So I’ve asked again and will keep on and on and on........

Email Emma.Taylor@tesco.com

She UK People Partner, she ‘may’ offer something more than political BS!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 08-10-19, 05:41PM
Last week I pushed back and said I am happy with my position and not looking to change...this week half year reviews are back and I am a miss on my “behaviour” 🤔
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: forrestgimp on 08-10-19, 05:46PM
Lol, That is so trasparent as to be not there. Any tribunal would see that for what it is.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 08-10-19, 08:27PM
Last week I pushed back and said I am happy with my position and not looking to change...this week half year reviews are back and I am a miss on my “behaviour” 🤔
That’s BS by the way! Unless you have not been doing your role to the expected standard, and if that were the case you should have been spoken to before your review, then you have to put in a discrimination grievance against your line manager!

The review is not the place to tell you about any issues, what is spoken about should not be new to you, therefore any ‘miss’ would be overturned and set to standard score!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: madness on 08-10-19, 08:45PM
I keep asking my lead people partner how many stock managers are being kept in the company and what criteria is being used to establish who stays and who goes in the role. She didn’t reply to start off, then I kept emailing until I got a reply off her. She answered my questions like a politician and gave no answers. So I’ve asked again and will keep on and on and on........
unofficially our store once found out that a headcount of 10 or more GAs meant a manager stayed I think it was the first time round of nights to days when the non food stock control manager role went as they only had  6-8 staff at the time.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 08-10-19, 08:49PM
I'm quite interested to know how they measure the behavior criterion, as to the layman it sounds like office politics holds sway in who gets promoted and how people get rated on performance (we all know it does, but having an implied political measure such as "behaviour" confirms and legitimises that it's who you are, not how you do that gets you promoted, which is not a good thing").

Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: madness on 08-10-19, 09:39PM
Certain roles are easy to get promoted from. Or do certsin things for the store ie lots of community nonsense charity work on store time of course. The service manager role that has mainly gone was an easy route up to the next easiest role of personel manager. I've seen pms progress through the company without ever having had a filling manager role.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Redshoes on 09-10-19, 09:02AM
I'm quite interested to know how they measure the behavior criterion, as to the layman it sounds like office politics holds sway in who gets promoted and how people get rated on performance (we all know it does, but having an implied political measure such as "behaviour" confirms and legitimises that it's who you are, not how you do that gets you promoted, which is not a good thing").

Generally it would be behind the scenes against shop floor. It's ok to complain and challenge in an office but not to bring it to shop floor and involve others, bring down the team. It's hard when it's personal to you and I speak from experience as I have been through this myself, twice. The compliance role was left hanging a very long time. They knew the role was vulnerable and had to live with it. I don't honestly know what is better as its hard to live with this hanging over you but if you have warning you can do things to help live mortgage insurance and look at moving into other roles. You can make life choices like not buying that new car but on the other hand you have to live with knowing your job may not be safe. On the other side of things a structure change with no warning does not have this hanging over you.
I think the questions to ask are ones that can be answered. Until a full structure change comes a lot of the questions can't be answered. If store managers and people partners do know exact figures of roles being removed in time they will be told not to give out information and until it comes it will only be at best a guide.
I think the questions to be asked are about vacancies now or upcoming in your area.
-details of vacancies now and upcoming
-are you going to be invited to apply for vacancies
-what happens if you opt not to apply, does this mean that you have chosen to make yourself vulnerable and will it be held against you
-expected time scales
-will any vacancies be restricted to vulnerable roles and if so when
The list goes on
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 09-10-19, 10:17AM
It's also important to ask how these performance measures are measured, if there is no structure or measurable elements that constitutes a rating, it could serve Tesco managers as a backdoor to illegitimately start the SYP process against said managers as a way to save the company money by "managing them out of the business", it also could raise further questions on what oversite or governance is in place to make sure that the SYP process is used legitimately.

When a company has strong corporate governance measures in place, litigation is managed better as a result.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lucgeo on 09-10-19, 10:56AM
A miss on behaviour, is so random, that it can't surely be recognised as such. Behaviour, is an ongoing assessment, needing to be highlighted and met throughout the assessment period. I would certainly challenge that, as should for any future reason, your criteria plays a part, this could be deemed a negative.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 09-10-19, 12:37PM
It’s all about being part of “that clique”...I’m not....”career laughs” are rife in this place.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: BarryZola on 09-10-19, 08:31PM
On the face of it, this seems quite simple. The Food Stock control job is not going to be there in 6 months or whatever it is in your store. The job will be gone. You can't carry on doing it. With that said, don't you just have 2 options really?

Apply for other managerial jobs if you see any roles advertised that seem acceptable to yourself in the next 6 months if your wish is to stay with the company in a managerial role.

Or:

Don't apply for any other jobs within the 6 month period as you feel they're not suitable and then your job is axed at the end of the 6 months. At this point they surely have no other option but to make you redundant and pay you off as your job no longer exists. Obviously if you're reasonably long service and would welcome an early retirement or a fresh start elsewhere than this would seem like a good option. Really, what else can the company actually do, legally?

Obviously this is a very important time and it would probably be advisable to take some kind of legal advice if you're looking to ride out the 6 months and see what happens. My guess is they'll get as many food stockies into other roles voluntarily and then when it comes towards the end of the 6 month period they'll offer the remaining people who have dug their heels in redundancy.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: coffeemate on 09-10-19, 08:54PM
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lackofinterest on 09-10-19, 09:29PM
if you are offered a similar role without loss of hours or pay and same shifts then they don't have to pay you redundancy. if they can only offer mickey mouse hours and/or shifts you don't want then dismissal would be unfair. in my opinion you'd win at a tribunal. redundancy not offered for one reason and one reason only.

Administrator Comment Edited. Nomad
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: stockstaffreduction on 09-10-19, 10:01PM
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.

I would be very interested to know where you have obtained this piece of information from.
There are still a good number of Food Stock Managers who are not prepared to move.
I can see the People Team busy in 2020 attending a large number of Employment Tribunals.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Paranoid pariah on 10-10-19, 06:07PM
See now I'm a Stock and Admin Manager and have had this conversation with my manager and have been told it's me going. Very Fishy
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 10-10-19, 07:06PM
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
Totally incorrect, both legally speaking and company process!

The offered role must be ‘suitable’ as mentioned, a tribunal would find in favour of the complainer
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Redshoes on 11-10-19, 07:44AM
In the metro structure change people were job matched. If you turn down the job that was offered you did put yourself into the category of being dismissed. It was accept the job you have been offered or not. It was not a choice off accept this or one of the other roles that are available in the store or area.
With the stock control manager change, are they tracking jobs as they come up and are turned down? If you are being monitored on this I think it's unfair, the job is either gone now or not and as soft change implies it is not forced. Until it's forced you can not have not moving held against you but if you really don't want redundancy you should not try and cling onto a job you have been told is going.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 11-10-19, 08:03AM
Tesco has been caught out in the "soft structure change" arguement before where an employment tribunal decreed that not only was the consultation process and disciplinary metered out for not accepting tye changes ridiculous, but the the addition of the responsibilities of another management role added to the existimg one going through the change did not meet the definition of "soft structure change".

As for rejecting jobs offered to you, the law still has the last say on this, specifically around "reasonable" redeployment.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 11-10-19, 08:17AM
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
Totally incorrect, both legally speaking and company process!

The offered role must be ‘suitable’ as mentioned, a tribunal would find in favour of the complainer
I now have a grievance pending a hearing on this situation.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 11-10-19, 09:04AM
Global Moderator Comment Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).

Any idea who is hearing it? People partner or lead people partner?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 11-10-19, 09:15AM
Global Moderator Comment Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).

Waiting to hear . ...
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: coffeemate on 11-10-19, 10:16AM
This information is correct, I have been informed by the people partner. Yes Tesco have to offer you a suitable alternative but all team manager roles are suitable as long as they are within a reasonable distance.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 11-10-19, 10:37AM
Diminishing of workload ?
In my PLACE of work (not the wider business) ?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: stockstaffreduction on 11-10-19, 11:07AM
Have you had this conversation recorded on paper?
If my People Partner said this to me, I would want it recorded in an meeting with my union rep present.




This information is correct, I have been informed by the people partner. Yes Tesco have to offer you a suitable alternative but all team manager roles are suitable as long as they are within a reasonable distance.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Srgd2170 on 11-10-19, 11:23AM
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.
Totally incorrect, both legally speaking and company process!

The offered role must be ‘suitable’ as mentioned, a tribunal would find in favour of the complainer
I now have a grievance pending a hearing on this situation.

Who have you taken the grievance out on out of interest and how did you word it??
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 11-10-19, 11:33AM
This information is correct, I have been informed by the people partner. Yes Tesco have to offer you a suitable alternative but all team manager roles are suitable as long as they are within a reasonable distance.

No they are not!!  Just to be clear, what you are suggesting is a manager should be made to do any manager role, because they are classed as a ‘manager?’

I would like to point out if this was followed, a tribunal would find in favour of a complainer should an alternative not be deemed as ‘suitable’ as it is individual to the person, not the role!  You can’t say somebody who works days can be ‘suitably’ made to work nights, or even twighlight for that matter!

Away and have a work with yourself!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lucgeo on 11-10-19, 12:46PM
 8-) along the same lines as a CA could only be job matched to their own department, even though their contract would state they are a CUSTOMER ASSISTANT. Then they had the choice to apply for alternative roles within the store, or other store's vacancies, or take redundancy. Same principle, but different standards for management ???
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 12-10-19, 10:02AM
The 4 main criterias a judge will look on is Pay, location, hours of work and differences in the role,  for pay and location, unless the employee is willing to move further away from home to work, then any longer commute would likely mean increased cost on travel and less time to spend at home, where possible, the employer should look to re-deploy current employees to other stores equidistant or closer to where they live, they should not be out of pocket on either pay or location.

Hours should both be the same as is in previous role and should not conflict with an employees availability (if it does then further probing would be made to ascertain why said employee is unavailable, if it's for a reason such as not wanting to work lates, then the judge won't look favourably on that.)

The last criteria is the one that Tesco is trying to hornshoe in as "soft structure changes" if the judge were to be presented with role packs of the previous role and new role. They would deem the additional responsibilities of a now redundant manager role being added to another managers role is not a "soft structure change" (I've not seen this phrase being used anywhere else before it does seem that it's just Tesco trying to get out of paying people redundancy).

Likewise other aspects such as skilled elements of responsibilities etc will also be taken into account on whether the role is suitable.

Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 14-10-19, 10:48AM
Anyone been offered/forced into the Stock & Admin role?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: fatboy on 14-10-19, 01:15PM
Can you be made to work hours outside you're availability window.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lucgeo on 14-10-19, 01:21PM
 8-) NO!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: In the loop 1. on 14-10-19, 02:23PM
Been told recently the job is now merged into one. I’ll wait for redundancy thanks.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 16-10-19, 04:01PM
Waiting to hear . ...

Still waiting??
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Sc666 on 18-10-19, 12:05AM
How is this an informal soft change with the role going and no redundancy being offered?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: biggerpicture on 18-10-19, 10:52AM
I really don't understand why it's not a redundancy situation.
I'm in the same situation and don't want another department or a different shop.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 18-10-19, 12:32PM
For those of you who are unhappy or feeling forced and pushed..request to fill in a legal pack from the union.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 18-10-19, 03:13PM
Said it before, will say again, along with the others who have noted the same facts following their conversations with store manager;

The role is being removed
The ‘affected’ managers are being given a lengthy opportunity to apply for another role
Nobody is being forced, if they are, every conversation must be recorded for tribunal claim
The ‘affected’ managers will be offered ‘suitable’ alternative
        This ‘suitable’ alternative is down to the persons circumstances
        A manager will not be given a manager role for the sake of ‘being an manager’
After the 6 month timescale those left will be asked to leave

Wait it out, no need to contact legal professionals, this will just cost a fortune
if you are in the union leave, what good are they to managers?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: In the loop 1. on 19-10-19, 08:57AM
Has anyone on here actually had a documented conversation or is it the usual informal chat. Let’s be honest. If the co can informally move stock managers into other roles quietly before the formal process starts they potentially can save a lot of money.
Has anyone seen or can post on here the soft change briefing at all ?
For my money the new role would be a step too far especially after the restructure only a few months ago. Any thoughts from anyone ?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 19-10-19, 10:42AM
It's Tesco, they'll have a "process" that has to be followed, but, as usual it won't be followed correctly, you'll have the Area Managers giving the pretense of policy is law, that process must be followed without question, but behind closed doors they will imply the expectation of doing a Jack the Lad job under the delusion that by saving the company money they will curry favour with the directors and be in line for a promotion, they want the affected colleagues to disappear without paying out, they will of course say otherwise publically.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 10-11-19, 01:34PM
Anyone left still?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 10-11-19, 03:04PM
I am still in my position and have had no further meetings for a number of weeks now.  I believe we have now passed the 3 month timeframe and don’t expect to hear anything now until after Christmas.

I know some that have taken a role elsewhere in store, so this gives the full ‘A’ to the Stock and Admin Manager now, so good luck to them all!

With the company saying 6 months for this process, it will hopefully be more clear once the busy festive period is over. 

I have no intention of moving to another role, so I’m waiting with interest about any further information!

Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lucgeo on 10-11-19, 06:52PM
 8-) I hope you are proved right, and by standing your ground, showing them you won't be brow beaten. If they eventually offer redundancy to those managers who refused to move, how will they deal with the backlash from the other managers who took another role.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 10-11-19, 07:13PM
My understanding from conversations with my Store Manager is those that have move are doing so willingly therefore no comeback in relation to your comments
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Redshoes on 11-11-19, 01:34PM
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.

They can only dismiss you if you have not taken a job that was selected for you. If jobs have come up and you have applied and not been successful you have shown that you have tried.  If jobs have not come up you have not been able to find yourself another job.  I think you only need to show you have tried.  Opportunities are not the same in all areas so it can't be same for everyone.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: streaker on 11-11-19, 10:57PM
There will be no offer of redundancy. If after 6 months you have not accepted another role you have been offered you will be dismissed from the company.

They can only dismiss you if you have not taken a job that was selected for you. If jobs have come up and you have applied and not been successful you have shown that you have tried.  If jobs have not come up you have not been able to find yourself another job.  I think you only need to show you have tried.  Opportunities are not the same in all areas so it can't be same for everyone.

Surely you cannot be dismissed by the company, if your being given extra responsibility and more workload.
Surely there is a case for a terms and conditions arguement, and that your role is being change to take on stock and admin role.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 11-11-19, 11:14PM
The government has strict laws on what constitutes a redundancy situation, for FSM's being redeployed it's acceptable as long as there's no loss of earnings, the work location is of similar distance to your current location, the job you're being redeployed to is within your capabilities (they should train you for the role regardless) and it's reasonable, if there is anything you find unreasonable about it in any way, you have to prove why it is.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 11-11-19, 11:39PM
Made to take a vacancy in an informal way? Good luck with that. Nothing can be made to happen informaly.  If they try to push people into vacancies they would have to make it formal, and that changes the situation...
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 12-11-19, 01:39AM
The government has strict laws on what constitutes a redundancy situation, for FSM's being redeployed it's acceptable as long as there's no loss of earnings, the work location is of similar distance to your current location, the job you're being redeployed to is within your capabilities (they should train you for the role regardless) and it's reasonable, if there is anything you find unreasonable about it in any way, you have to prove why it is.
True these comments however you are missing a key phrase and that is ‘a suitable alternative’
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: In the loop 1. on 12-11-19, 06:28AM
Glad to see people are still on here. Think this will rumble on for awhile. All of it stinks to be honest. How many of us would not take redundancy if offered ?
Think the combining of job roles is sneaky without consultation but let's see. How many people have had formal note written meetings ? Probably is all informal at the moment but will save them a fortune if natural moves do occur before its live officially. However I've heard elsewhere it should be done by now. Who knows ?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 29-11-19, 10:53PM
Does anyone have the moving managers around the business pack please?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Redshoes on 30-11-19, 08:08AM
All online. Below is just the heading.

Moving Hours
We want T**** to be an honest and inspiring place to work where relationships are based on shared values and respect.

The retail environment and our customer shopping habits continually change, and to remain competitive our business needs to adapt. From time to time changes are needed to our colleague’s terms and conditions of employment. In these situations we will always have open and honest conversations regarding the impact this could have on you.

This policy applies to all colleagues and managers who work in Tesco stores, offices and the customer engagement centres.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 30-11-19, 08:24AM
No, there were two packs given out at the announcement of the change. One specifically around moving managers around the business and the other was about briefing the change to the stakeholders ie food managers and stock and admin managers.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 01-12-19, 11:08AM
Has anyone had any further informal conversations with their Store Manager?

I’m aware that things may be dropped somewhat down the priority scale given the time of year, however based on the initial guidelines, the process should be completed by now and affected colleagues moved into a new role.

I know that more have taken a job offer than first thought, based both on this info from this site and chatting to other colleagues, so leads to the question why has this been the case; pressure from manager, financial uncertainty so the need to have ‘any’ job or is it something else?

I can only expect this to be brought back up after the festive period, where the additional time then starts.  After that has elapsed, what then?!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: biggerpicture on 01-12-19, 01:19PM
Meetings should still be continuing.  I keep having 'catch up's' whilst i may my decision.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 01-12-19, 07:42PM
I refuse to move roles. I have an ongoing grievance that I cannot discuss here.  I have also taken legal advice. You do what’s best for you individually.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 01-12-19, 09:12PM
Yep, still in...still having to have “catchups” whilst they are trying their best to tighten the screw placing indirect pressure on me in one way or another!!🙄
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lucgeo on 02-12-19, 08:33AM
I feel that this will have a backlash, when all the managers they have manipulated into taking alternate roles, realise the ones who stuck it out are offered redundancy.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: forrestgimp on 02-12-19, 09:19AM
You are probably right but at that point there will be nothing they can do. Strikes me this is a way of not losing so many managers in one go.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Cleaner1 on 02-12-19, 10:15AM
When are they replacing Team Managers with Shift Leaders in all stores?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: fscer on 02-12-19, 10:36AM
That is the idea, but Tesco are looking for the cheapest way to do it.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: beentheredoneit on 09-12-19, 07:36PM
How many out there are hanging out for something better.
I have turned down other positions as I feel they are not suitable. Our stock admin manager has moved sideways. I refused this role as when I previously did it I ended up off for months with stress.The SM has divided up the various stock admin responsibilities to other team managers, but not me.
Can't wait to see what January brings ....
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 09-12-19, 08:09PM
Most are probably holding out for redundancy, as there is not much confidence that there won't be further restructures.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: madness on 10-12-19, 01:48AM
wait out for redundancy or protected pay as a dot com picker easiest job in the shop immune to checkout calls and if its not on the shelf not your problem. easy money
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 10-12-19, 09:44AM
Does anyone have the annual restructure process pack?? Does it state reasonable or suitable?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 10-12-19, 12:04PM
The law states reasonable and suitable, therefore Tesco has to comply as a minimum.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: madness on 10-12-19, 12:40PM
Well they have managed to make a previous, pi role merged with stock control and merchandising as a "soft structure" as well as non food inc into grocery which is a huge job.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: In the loop 1. on 10-12-19, 04:47PM
Wait till they merge counters and dairy into one and call that a soft structure change or produce and Isb. Whatever’s next ?
Either way it’s a joke. Give me redundancy any day.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 10-12-19, 05:16PM
Well they have managed to make a previous, pi role merged with stock control and merchandising as a "soft structure" as well as non food inc into grocery which is a huge job.

I believe there was an article where a manager successfully sued Tesco for constructive dismissal over how they handled a "soft structure change". She was suspended for questioning the changes to her role.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 10-12-19, 09:12PM
I’m still in current role, and like somebody said previous, I’m not getting any additional work for future activities, I’m left out of the conversation; don’t know if that’s because I’m pushing everything back in relation to the Informal Chat, or is there more to it!

I know there is no ‘ suitable, alternative’ role for me, this is probably the case for those that are still left in role (they know that too) and I’m sure given a large number, by the sounds of it, have been redeployed, once the Xmas period is out of the way, a more formal conversation will take place in relation to removing us from the role.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Justwaiting on 11-12-19, 04:13PM
So what does everyone think about structure changes after xmas? Manager cull? Team Support? Will they carry on with the structure now in place in metro and Express stores?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Welshie on 11-12-19, 05:22PM
Well they have managed to make a previous, pi role merged with stock control and merchandising as a "soft structure" as well as non food inc into grocery which is a huge job.


In a store with no nightshift the stock/admin manager now manages non-food stock control,  fresh stock control,  pi , space and range and wages/admin . This seems a huge job for one person .
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 11-12-19, 06:19PM
So what does everyone think about structure changes after xmas? Manager cull? Team Support? Will they carry on with the structure now in place in metro and Express stores?

2 seemingly likely restrctures is Team Managers being replaced by Shift Leaders in SS and cluster site Express SMs becoming more mainstream.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Justwaiting on 11-12-19, 07:00PM
So what does everyone think about structure changes after xmas? Manager cull? Team Support? Will they carry on with the structure now in place in metro and Express stores?

2 seemingly likely restrctures is Team Managers being replaced by Shift Leaders in SS and cluster site Express SMs becoming more mainstream.

Would that mean protected pay for ex Team Managers as Shift Leader is the same rate as Team Support?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Gizmo on 11-12-19, 09:19PM
Whilst discussing future structure changes anyone currently working in a metro and how is the structure working am I right in thinking they have one team manager if so what does the role mainly consist of also how the overall structure works or not.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 12-12-19, 08:48AM
So what does everyone think about structure changes after xmas? Manager cull? Team Support? Will they carry on with the structure now in place in metro and Express stores?

2 seemingly likely restrctures is Team Managers being replaced by Shift Leaders in SS and cluster site Express SMs becoming more mainstream.

Would that mean protected pay for ex Team Managers as Shift Leader is the same rate as Team Support?

Yes, however, the lowest earning Team Managers are only on about £1k-£1.5k a year more than a full time shift leader depending on if the shift leader works sundays/bank holidays meanimg protection pay might not be that much unless you're on 26k a year+ as team manager.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: randomworker on 12-12-19, 08:54AM
Whilst discussing future structure changes anyone currently working in a metro and how is the structure working am I right in thinking they have one team manager if so what does the role mainly consist of also how the overall structure works or not.

I’m guessing it would depend on the size of the metro.

We have store manager, 2 team managers, 3 full time shift leaders and 2 part time shift leaders.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 17-01-20, 01:03PM
So....limbo comes to mind....any expectations from anyone with new year just around the corner?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: londoner83 on 17-01-20, 07:30PM
Very quite this year on what changes are being planned.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Justwaiting on 17-01-20, 07:57PM
So what are everyone's thoughts on what's to come?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Hammer10 on 18-01-20, 01:54AM
Just like the winter we have not had yet it will all hit the fan soon me thinks😔
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Samantha on 18-01-20, 05:11AM
So what are everyone's thoughts on what's to come?


With Asda closing their meet and fish counters, it is worrying time again for Tesco part time counters.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Redshoes on 18-01-20, 08:40AM
with the brief that we have had in store about update to tablet, S&L books and training it looks to be admin and wages. Could be auditors too with these changes and the introduction of the hub.
More coming to tablet, can access your own shift patterns. Is this exceptions and booking holidays going on line too, if not it sounds like not far behind.
S&L books going online, removes the need to be audited in store. 
Training, all new colleagues will no longer need training record cards and existing will retain cards for as long as they are relevant.
Huge changes and possible knock on effects.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: kaled78 on 18-01-20, 09:03AM
with managing by hours introduced,I can see sickness going up as if holidays are eventually booked online first come first served,managers "favourites" will no longer get all the good weeks
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lucgeo on 18-01-20, 09:40AM
Valid point...it gets rid of asking for specific dates, to be told already booked and noted by manager should you then go off sick on those dates. Also be interesting to see if 5* weekends and Christmas holidays are blocked, as currently there is a " no freeze weeks" in the partnership agreement, yet it's common practice by most dept managers to block these weeks.  To display it on the tablet, by SM's discretion or similar, would be in contravention of the agreement.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Redshoes on 19-01-20, 04:04AM
Wk 1 update does not mention holiday bookings or exceptions. Just viewing shifts but I do think the rest won't be far behind.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: King1999 on 19-01-20, 07:57AM
The Sims ....... f***s sake that's what the business model is now.When did the twatco dlc become available.Dlc (download content) for non gamers.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Nomad on 19-01-20, 02:11PM
Administrator Comment Food Stock Managers
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Freddie31 on 19-01-20, 10:08PM
I have heard that there is a conference call on thursday. All sm, rd, group people mgrs all to attend. Rumours are they going to announce restructure of stores.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: kaled78 on 20-01-20, 07:52AM
we were told that was about the log books now going electronic from week 1,but who knows?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Redshoes on 20-01-20, 08:10AM
Electronic S&L books makes the outgoing role of stock/admin smaller. I also think that shift patterns on a app does the same. Managers will have to deal with colleagues complaining that holidays or shifts show wrong on the tablet so dept managers will have to ensure they are far enough ahead for it to be right. More work for individual managers and less for stock/admin.
I do think that soft structure changes will become forced but in my area this will have little impact as most have moved anyway. It could be that another round of soft structure changes are introduced. This enables people to move into other roles that become available and less redundancy so people who don't want to leave the company are not forced out. However, as we don't know what is coming it could be that the fresh stock admin manager has moved into a vulnerable role and may go into consultation anyway.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Cleaner1 on 20-01-20, 09:35AM
Who gives a monkeys. It better not be night crews getting done away with now I’ve left. Hopefully we are all getting paid out for the equal pay claim.  :) £££  :D  ;)
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: trolleyboy96 on 20-01-20, 03:18PM
Stock and Admin Managers have nothing to do with log books, don’t have one, and when compliance manager went they don’t distribute/audit/sign, effectively unless on duty don’t touch a log book.

If some still are doing the compliance job then sorry more fool them as it’s now store or lead team accountability.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Littlehelpsvery on 20-01-20, 04:07PM
I have heard that there is a conference call on thursday. All sm, rd, group people mgrs all to attend. Rumours are they going to announce restructure of stores.

If it’s not announced on Thursday it will be leaked. Extras following the same structure as metros/express more than likely
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Hammer10 on 20-01-20, 04:54PM
Deja vu is this not the same time as last year. whose for the chop this time.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: forrestgimp on 20-01-20, 05:11PM
I have heard that there is a conference call on thursday. All sm, rd, group people mgrs all to attend. Rumours are they going to announce restructure of stores.

If it’s not announced on Thursday it will be leaked. Extras following the same structure as metros/express more than likely

No one ever speaks about superstores makes me sad.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: penguin on 20-01-20, 05:37PM
All express S.M to be on a zoom call on Thursday at 10am, and to be in a private area during the said call so something fairly big seems to be going on.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mickymouse1962 on 21-01-20, 08:27AM
Hope that the last of the tesco security are going was told by union it would be this year
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Srgd2170 on 21-01-20, 12:24PM
So are there any food stock managers still on here with any updates? I’ve been told the store managers are being put under a lot of pressure now Christmas is over to get them moved into other roles?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 21-01-20, 12:32PM
SMs can’t do that as the process is informal and any moves can simply be refused. If they want to force it they would have to go formal and that’s a different ball game.  Too much store is being put on this weeks conference calls and zoom calls. They are business updates.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: beentheredoneit on 21-01-20, 12:46PM
Thursday's zoom call about new wmty and no doubt the other new bits - on line rotas and s&l
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: cindyboo on 21-01-20, 01:45PM
Just wondering if wages are going yet its been two years since they first said wages were going. If everything is now on the new app  ! !!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: londoner83 on 21-01-20, 02:30PM
Think they will wait a few months till its embedded before doing anything to wages instore.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: tink on 21-01-20, 04:29PM
Advice needed please!
 I have been a victim of so called soft structure changes and I have been forced into a job role I do not want and did not apply for. I have expressed my feelings many times.
 I have had no formal meetings and not signed any agreements to this change, yet I have received a new contract with a changed job code etc. I have asked who I should raise a grievance too but again this was ignored.
I am now job hunting but do feel I should a least raise a grievance or would it be pointless? Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: forrestgimp on 21-01-20, 04:37PM
Hope that the last of the tesco security are going was told by union it would be this year

If it turns out to be true i will buy you a beer matey.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 21-01-20, 04:39PM
Tink, if that's from the food stick mgr role you've every reason to take issue. The process is totally informal. Nothing can be enforced.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: madness on 21-01-20, 05:48PM
What role did you end up with t?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: tink on 21-01-20, 07:05PM
I was not a stock control manager, this was the only relevant topic I could find to ask for some advice about soft structure moves / changes as I too was always told you could not be forced into any other role.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Rad on 21-01-20, 09:50PM
Are you currently doing the job that it says on your new contract? Have they already moved you or are the proposinh to move you?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Toff on 21-01-20, 11:47PM
Heard its pfs mnger going and some service mongers size dependent,  good sources union briefing
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Eewyn on 22-01-20, 03:47AM
I don’t understand how the company could begin moving other roles into consultation and possibly redundancy, whilst leaving Food Stock Managers in limbo and trying to force these people into other roles through ‘soft structure change’.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: takethemoneyandrun on 22-01-20, 08:21AM
we were told that was about the log books now going electronic from week 1,but who knows?
Surely you wouldn't hold a conference call for Log Books???  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: beentheredoneit on 22-01-20, 09:35AM
You certainly would if it was such a large change as this. All s & l recorded done online so can be centrally checked instantly. As a company we are pretty bad at written ones - perhaps this way we will be forced to do properly.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Jethro on 22-01-20, 10:54AM
Hopefully nice redundancy package for skilled bakers  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Samuel137 on 22-01-20, 11:22AM
I was thinking the same thing about bakers.
Hopefully at least some sort of news on it and for everyone else not knowing what's going on with their jobs.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Stockman on 25-01-20, 05:45PM
Any food stock control manager heard anything? Is a formal process coming or is it still under the banner of "soft structure"!!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: beentheredoneit on 25-01-20, 08:47PM
Looks like we will all find out next week.
Fingers crossed
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lordadmiral on 26-01-20, 09:11AM
Please scrap night fill, pay me off so i could study full time 'front end' developement ....
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mitzy 85 on 27-01-20, 01:45PM
Stock control manager in my store looks after wages admin non food stock grocery fresh and merchandising. They have 2 people working on health and beauty stock control who work 7hrs a day between them who have to scan gap and some high value counts on a Wednesday, other than that they do nothing all day.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Siwel123 on 27-01-20, 04:03PM
Are you sure they do nothing all day? As well as gaps and daily counts plus the big counts on a wednesday, surely they do osi as well? Gaps can take a while on non food side as well especially as lots of items are high value.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: forrestgimp on 27-01-20, 04:50PM
I think the 'they do nothing all day' was /s  :)
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Siwel123 on 27-01-20, 07:38PM
Ah well that's made me look daft
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 28-01-20, 05:42PM
As it stands the business has yet to make a decision regarding the remaining stock control managers.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 28-01-20, 06:17PM
The six month window ends in February.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Alnolda on 30-01-20, 09:44AM
I work full time night-shift and have done for the past 11 years.  A few days ago our whole night team was pulled to the side and was told there will be no more redundancy's and that if there are job losses on nights you will be offered the same hours through the day.

Is this a sign we are losing our nights, and is it even legal not to offer some form of redundancy??

Global Moderator Comment Unless you are a food stock manager your post would have been better elsewhere.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: madness on 30-01-20, 11:09AM
Nights to days didn't and still hasn't landed well in alot of stores. Also the depots don't have the capacity to run fully at night.
Wage saving from nights in stores would be countered by the increased cost in the depot of night pickers drivers etc.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Nomad on 30-01-20, 11:59AM
Nights to days is not a reasonable alternative job offer, it can be excepted by the employee if they so wish but have every right not to accept it as reasonable, thereby qualifying for redundancy if no other reasonable offer made.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: madness on 30-01-20, 12:59PM
Maybe but Tesco will just offer minimum redundancy
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 30-01-20, 01:11PM
https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights/suitable-alternative-employment (https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights/suitable-alternative-employment)

Noting the part about hours, days wouldn't be suitable, i'd also look up your rights as night workers, your contract job title may be "customer assistant" and not specify nights, but there may be legal mechanisms which prevent this being used as a get out of redundancy card.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 31-01-20, 07:03PM
Back to the topic of Food Stock Managers, would there be a general agreement now, that most have moved into a new role; be it ‘forced’ as some have mentioned or ‘agreed’ as others have, given nearly 6 months is up?

For those that haven’t, are you still being given informal discussions and advised of new opportunities, or has this stopped? Do you know if there are roles within your current area, and if so are you being ‘pushed’ that way?

Like a few have mentioned, the original brief was 3 months then 6 for those left, that timeframe is about to conclude and I would appreciate any thoughts or new information!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Eewyn on 31-01-20, 09:41PM
I’m still in the same role. I had the initial brief in August but nothing since. No informal discussions and no updates of roles in my area (not that I would take any). The stock and admin role was a vacancy in my store between August and December, which they tried to move me into for the first couple of weeks after the brief. I refused it and now it has been filled.Interested to see what happens when the 6 month time frame is up.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: forrestgimp on 01-02-20, 08:08AM
Its a disgraceful way to treat employees isnt it, leaving them in the dark for the best part of a whole year not very conducive to having good mental well being at the end of it.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 01-02-20, 11:20AM
Eewyn, are you a long term employee? Without giving too much away are there actual vacancies in your area? I know you have said you have refused and will continue to refuse any other roles, I’m the same, have done so since the off.  There are only two ways in which they will get me to leave my current role and that is by either accepting a new role (which I’m not going to do) or making me surplus to requirements and following prescribed process.

As a matter of interest, are you like myself, wanting about with nothing to do as the simplifications have taken effect?

forrestgimp I entirely agree, these last 6 months have been unbearable, not only am I being told my job is no longer within management structure with all my accountabilities moving to the Stock and Admin manager, I’m not getting any form of communication about what the future holds!  It’s embarrassing stuff and certainly not Values lead which they go on and on about these days!!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: beentheredoneit on 01-02-20, 12:04PM
I was told about other roles at the start, then again at a 3 month meeting. Since then Stock Admin became vacant and I was expected to move into that role. But I did that role year or so ago and it led to serious stress issues, so SM agreed that I shouldn't do it (I suspect he was advised that I would have a very strong case for constructive dismissal)
So no new stock admin manager appointed, instead the role was divided up and passed to other team managers (which as you can imagine went down very well).
So I still do food stock, although I have no job.
And await for news as to what they are going to do with me ....... I know what I want, but can't wait to find out.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Eewyn on 01-02-20, 12:05PM
I’ve been with the company 11 years, a manager for 6 years. There are no management vacancy posters on our vacancy board but I do know of a few through word of mouth. As I said, I’ve had no communication from my store manager regarding this. However, I haven’t been made to feel pressured into taking another role at all. I was asked if I would like to take the stock and admin role and after I refused I heard nothing more of it. Maybe he’s not bothering because I’ve already told him that I won’t be accepting anything and he, like me, is waiting for the 6 months to see what the business comes up with next. The store I work in is the closest one to me, with the next closest superstore or extra roughly 10 miles away. I know that’s not particularly far to travel compared to others but when I have the option to take a 5 minute walk to work, I don’t really fancy changing to a 30+ minute drive considering traffic. I do find it difficult to fill my days now.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 01-02-20, 01:13PM
Good afternoon fellow sufferers. I find myself in the same position as yourselves.  I have been a manager for well over twenty years and find the current circumstances totally unacceptable.  I am in an area with hardly any other stores nearby and have very limited mobility.  I would point blank refuse to take any vacancies, but there are none anyway and a high likelihood of none arising in the near future . The company has provided absolutely zero updates on our plight and their self imposed six month window is now looming. They clearly have no concern for our state of mind and how stressful this situation is.  Hopefully they do the right thing and put those of remaining in the role into a formal consultation process as described in the first informal meeting, unless that was used to scare managers into vacancies.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 01-02-20, 01:46PM
I’ve not had any pressure put into me about taking another role, I made myself clear I’m relation to my thoughts about moving role, not a chance am I taking a move without me instigating it; which I won’t!

Hopefully they do the right thing by us and ensure the correct process is followed
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 01-02-20, 01:51PM
There can be no pressure applied. It’s all informal, a situation of their own creation. If I get told informally to take a vacancy I will reply informally, get knotted .
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: lucgeo on 01-02-20, 02:20PM
 8-) informal request - informal reply...spot on  8-)
We used to have a manager when trying to "cajole" people always start the conversation with, "I'll deny ever saying this but..." and then insist you do what she proposed, or face consequences. People quickly learnt to just turn and walk away, stating they couldn't hear her as she wasn't saying anything  :thumbup: :D
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 03-02-20, 07:27PM
Wmty complete.  I think I made my feelings abundantly clear.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: beentheredoneit on 03-02-20, 09:22PM
Has anyone heard of a temporary freeze on management moves / recruitment.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 03-02-20, 09:32PM
No I haven’t heard that.  Does anyone else have it in black and white the six month time frame as described in the first informal meeting?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 03-02-20, 09:47PM
It’s in the original brief which we got in August. 3 months in the first instance then up to 6 to agree an informal move from role
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 03-02-20, 09:57PM
It is , but i was been specifically told we were not allowed to have a copy of the brief at any point. Do you possess a copy DJL?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 03-02-20, 10:06PM
Maybe m360 could help??
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 03-02-20, 10:07PM
I have it in black and white I just wondered if anyone else has.  It’s not the briefing though.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 03-02-20, 10:19PM
No, not given anything.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 03-02-20, 10:20PM
Cool. Thanks.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 03-02-20, 10:34PM
Not think I have an actual copy, but I’ve read it and it does say that! I must have a look to see if it’s about thd office, if not can you pls post onto here?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 03-02-20, 10:37PM
Odd, I wasn’t even allowed to read it and over the months I was categorically told I could not have a copy.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 03-02-20, 11:07PM
So do you have a copy? As you have mentioned a couple of times that you have it in ‘black and white?’

TBF I looked at it on the off chance and should have taken the opportunity to copy it but never thought at the time!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 03-02-20, 11:13PM
I do but I can’t post it. I have it as part of the action I took against the process that I mentioned some time ago. I had a response which had to be hard copied to me .
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 04-02-20, 06:10AM
So your grievance got stone walled with process and paperwork to back it up?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 04-02-20, 07:06AM
Exactly what I wanted
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 04-02-20, 01:01PM
What was your grievance about, and who heard it? I’m assuming it was rejected and you were told to wait out the 6 month informal process?

Back in August when this was ‘announced’ there was a real uncertainty about what the job was going to look like, and given the huge simplification made by the company with subsequent hours removed from the dept, there must be a plan.  Like others, and let me know if your in the same situation, the role of a Food Stock Manager is now obsolete.  With the continual efficiencies being made from the colleagues, why are managers not as affected, because I can safely say I have nothing to do.  As soon as I come into work and catch up with my team, say after 20 mins, that’s me twiddling my thumbs roll tea time, lunch time and then waiting to go home; I get paid a decent wage and some would love this kind of work environment however I can’t, I need to be busy, I always was, but now the job is no more, we need to be given an appropriate answer on our futures!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 04-02-20, 01:07PM
My grievance had several points running into pages.  The response was simply a repetition of what I was putting the grievance in against. Farcical.  It clearly states a six month time frame which brings us to this month. Although who knows, the group next to mine was informed of the job removal three weeks before I was told, so depends what the starting date you look from.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 04-02-20, 01:11PM
I was told in the second week of September. My grievance was heard by a group pm
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 04-02-20, 01:38PM
So is there something stopping you from posting the document; notes, names ect? It would be a very useful item to have.

I was formally told, at a meeting with SM, my role was to be informally removed and all Are to move to Stock and Admin Manager.  First 3 months to advise me of told I ‘could’ apply for and this will go up to 6 months if no movement.  There has, and never will be, any movement from my point of view.

I asked several times what would happen after 6 months, no response, just ‘wait and see’ and given I was spoken to W/C 26th Aug, that timeframe is now into its final days
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 04-02-20, 01:53PM
Unfortunately that’s the case DJL , too much personal information is on it. I totally agree with you. We are in the final month of a timeline imposed by them. The term formal process was used in the initial informal talk for the end of the six months. I do hope it wasn’t used to scare people into vacancies. They now need to follow this through to its natural conclusion and a formal process for those of us left.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 04-02-20, 02:10PM
You should ask what happens after 6 months with at least the knowledge of the minimum that is required by law if for nothing else to avoid the situation where Tesco dismisses you without paying redundancy citing offering reasonable alternatives or taking reasonable steps, Tesco has been sucessfully sued for constructive dismissal before for bungling the consultation process.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 04-02-20, 02:11PM
That’s totally understandable, I’m sure I will source one from my store.

I did think the role was going to be removed as part of the Stock Control simplification in May, as it didn’t make sense to me then why I was being kept on, and now all these months down the line I’m confused as to why I am still doing a job with little routine!

I’m hoping there will be further clarity in the next 2 weeks, otherwise I will probably go down the Grievance Route like yourself, to try get an end to this last 6 months of uncertainty and mental torture!

Good luck
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 04-02-20, 02:28PM
I’m now taking this further up the food chain . The impact on mental well being is totally unacceptable. Gods luck to you also DJL.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 04-02-20, 04:01PM
I asked that at the very start, NightandDay, and was told it was unclear and had to wait.

After your last comments I have looked further into the legal point of view, and have given clear indications about my personal circumstances and my continued objections to any move of role, everything I have been offered, and it’s been very little, have been totally unsuitable  based on my personal circumstances.

Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 04-02-20, 04:05PM
Dismissal simply won’t happen.  Firstly it’s an informal process . Secondly there are in some instances no vacancies. Finally if they decide to go formal they will have to offer redundancy.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: beentheredoneit on 04-02-20, 05:53PM
Interesting new training assessment for stock colleagues and stock managers .....
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Siwel123 on 04-02-20, 06:20PM
What's this assessment?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 04-02-20, 07:04PM
Just updated online Click and Train material, not live till next week but I’d imagine it just refreshed current operations
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 06-02-20, 06:37PM
Gone further up the food chain outlining the impact this ridiculous situation is having on people in this role. Two week window while they investigate my complaints.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 06-02-20, 06:57PM
Well done you, are you able to say who and have you had any initial reply?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 06-02-20, 07:31PM
As far as is possible in the company. it’s been handed to a manager to investigate. I’ve stated I do not expect to hear the same reply as my grievance. The window is closing that they set.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 07-02-20, 12:20PM
Hopefully you get some answers,

Other managers are telling me, after a conversation with the SM, that I ‘keep refusing job offers’ and he is unable to advertise jobs until I move out of my role!  How’s that for dignity and respect at work!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Redshoes on 07-02-20, 12:48PM
It would seem that you are hoping to be made redundant. Your job role is now soft structure and you have turned down stock/admin as not being suitable. In the recent changes to metro stores managers were job matched or paid off, no choice. If they were offered jobs and refused them they were not paid off.
A great deal of a managers role is a duty. Then add in the dept/legal training. The holiday booking, exceptions etc. Then the dept knowledge.
You can't be forced to move into a role that does not suit you but look at it from a colleagues perspective. How was it for your colleagues during the last restructure, were people forced into hours they did not normally do, did they have to change tasks and even Depts. As a business things do change and we can't ask colleagues to do what we won't do ourselves. What about the potential changes to PI, CSD and checkouts?
It does not matter where we work within the business, changes can and will happen. Some will work and some won't. Some will mean bigger adjustments, new skills, a bigger workload. A large part of hard all that will be is the team you have working for you. If you refuse to change but expect others to adjust and adapt you are not building a strong team. Adding the admin and wages to the job I accept is huge. It's a big part of the role but it is still as near as you can get to a stock control managers job in the new structure.
The company seem to be going more soft structure at the moment. How long this goes on for is pure guess unless you are very high up and in head office. How long the company will pay you for a diminishing role is unknown. How long you can reasonably be expected to sit within soft structure is unknown but I know of a manager in a local store who has done so for years. If the outcome you require is redundancy then you do need to turn down other roles but it's a gamble, they can say alternative roles have been offered and refused. They could go higher and request vacancies filled as offered and turned down. You could be putting yourself into constructive dismissal but who knows if they will go that far. The only thing for certain is that they will not turn round and say to you that they will create a job just for you as you don't like the roles that have been offered.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 07-02-20, 01:38PM
Redshoes, I appreciate your thoughts and what you say is largely accurate, however I would totally disagree with your tone about the colleagues perspective.  I had a highly effective and loyal team, I helped and supported them at all times, be it work or personal matters, we had a two way, mutual respect for each other.  If I needed help, they would help. I did not heed to be on their backs as they were highly trained and had the empowerment to do what was right, as well as the fact I would back them all the way!  In terms of the recent change, I actually told all my team as soon as I heard what was going on, it gave them the foresight to know before the formal meetings took place; they were very great full for my honesty and communication, as well as my support throughout the process!

I’m not refusing to change, I’m refusing to take another job!  Legally, any alternative must be ‘suitable’ to the individual, and all roles, from my point of view, bar my current, is unsuitable; for my family life, my health and my mental wellbeing!  I have multiple reasons to decline each role, I am in the right in doing so!

I’m not asking for a role to be created, I’ve worked in Tesco long enough, especially nowadays, to know that won’t happen.  They have a firm plan, year on year, to improve the business and improve efficiencies.  This time around it’s a soft structure on stock control and there appears to be no definitive solution to those that are not willing or able to take another role!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 07-02-20, 01:54PM
To add to this, a recent court ruling found that the addition of extra responsibilities to an existing managers role which they were putting through as a "soft structure" change was found to be null and void as the extra responsibilities materially changed the nature of the role, add to this the bungling of the consultation process and the woman won tens of thousands of pounds in a constructive dismissal claim.

As for reasonable job alternatives offered, it's reasonable to decline if location, work hours and work schedule is changed in a way that puts you in an unfavourable position or if the role offered is unsuitable due to documented disability or health issues.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 07-02-20, 02:42PM
Thanks NightandDay, I can safely say, given what I have experienced over the last couple of years with Tesco, I’m in a pretty good place in relation to my rights and how employment law works.

You are absolutely correct in your points, any role must be suitable, and what is suitable for one, is not suitable for another.  It’s this point that I feel Tesco are letting themselves down on.  When it suits them, they want us to be assertive and stand up for our rights but when it’s the other way, the silence in deafening, no support, no communication, expecting us to drop everything in a minute and agree to anything they want just to suit their needs!

That may be been the case ten years ago, but not now!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 07-02-20, 04:46PM
They put a six month time line on this. It’s about to expire. Let’s see what happens .
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 07-02-20, 06:21PM
Constructive dismissal is nonsense talk , especially with the number of people in this position.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 07-02-20, 06:30PM
Mildew...

https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/tesco-worker-unfair-dismissal-role-changes/ (https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/tesco-worker-unfair-dismissal-role-changes/)
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 07-02-20, 06:32PM
Mildew, how many in this position on your group?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 07-02-20, 07:06PM
Om12nv are you affected?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 07-02-20, 07:25PM
At a guess probably a third so about eight
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 07-02-20, 07:26PM
Night and day, that shows how badly they handle this process, then get it wrong.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Srgd2170 on 07-02-20, 07:30PM
That’s good to read, Tesco have completely refused to answer my questions, especially about what’s the process after 6 months. I Need all the information to make a decision which is right for me, they shouldn’t be holding it back. To be treated like this is a disgrace. Until I have my answers from them, my response is always going to be the same. I don’t know as tesco is being fair and transparent with me.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Srgd2170 on 07-02-20, 07:31PM
*Isn’t
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 07-02-20, 08:12PM
Mildew, which is exactly why constructive dismissal/unfair dismissal isn't completely out of question. At the end of the day, none of Tescos managers or managers doing the role of a consultant are proper managers/consultants, that's not through any fault of their own, that's Tescos fault for promoting within and only hiring managers with retail experience externally.

Proper managers comply with the process, have knowledge of employment law and shows empathy. Consultants (proper consultants not recruitment consultants) usually have a degree and are experts in a specific business area and are paid commensurately more than how much Tesco are paying their ill equipped managers to do this job.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 07-02-20, 08:19PM
The whole process of their own making is informal, without rep, note takers or evidence of conversations and meetings. They wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 07-02-20, 08:22PM
DJL Yes I am
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 07-02-20, 08:43PM
So Mildew, your area must have a few larger stores to have a third left in this position.  I’ve been told I’m the only one they haven’t been able to move yet, but I’m not for moving!

Need to stick to our guns and keep integrity of our convictions!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 07-02-20, 08:55PM
Just a guess DJL . 27 stores on our group , a lot of extras and large superstores. My store has no vacancies at all and is miles from other stores . I’m not in a position to move.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 07-02-20, 08:57PM
The soft structure is based on the fact that the role still exists within the wider business...anyone aware of FF Stock managers who are not subject to the soft structure?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 07-02-20, 08:58PM
Any store with more than fifteen staff in the dept
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 07-02-20, 09:00PM
They have stated that the role is to be removed from store manager structure and used the ‘soft’ approach to try and get people to take a new role with little push back.

I agree that the ones who want to stay can, they can be offered positions which suits their own personal circumstances, but for the rest, that option is clearly unavailable therefore an alternative must be offered, rather than the continual ‘review’
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 07-02-20, 09:02PM
Heatmap gives me max 12, currently have 9
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 07-02-20, 09:08PM
Agreed Me2015
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: trolleyboy96 on 08-02-20, 08:09AM
With the soft structure approach I’m no expert but I know definitely there’s 4 part time services managers on our group where the job has gone, all still sat there with just the desk and cash office, 2 of the stores have no checkout manager it keeks getting rotated when placements yet the service managers refuse to take it, seems currently and for the past few years they have the upper hand, what I’m saying is those food stock just stick your ground as it appears nothing can be forced. Unless they bring in redundancy...
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 08-02-20, 10:16AM
Thanks Trolley.  All valid stuff ,  probably the only difference is they were pretty clear about a six month timeline on this role removal.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: trolleyboy96 on 08-02-20, 02:06PM
I’m no expert on these, I’ve been effected every year since the restructured started, this year being my first so far uneffected, I’m a stock admin so I understand the issues and to be honest if I had been asked about the role properly back when it launched would of took redundancy it’s a thankless role depending on other managers and teams it’s a very frustrating role.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 08-02-20, 02:29PM
Sorry to hear that. Hindsight eh?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 15-02-20, 10:00AM
Anyone knows how to downsize an image in order to post it on here?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 03:18PM
Sorry no Wirey.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 15-02-20, 03:45PM
So after 6 months the individual cases are to be referred to LPP based on the flow chart which I have been trying to upload...anyone referred there yet?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 04:00PM
I have no idea what flow chart you are referring to Wirey ?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 15-02-20, 04:24PM
It details the annual review process.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Nomad on 15-02-20, 04:33PM
Never used this, so no warranty by me.

https://resizeimage.net/ (https://resizeimage.net/)
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 05:16PM
When did this surface Wirey?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 15-02-20, 05:29PM
It was always about...didn’t you say previously that you had some marked up documentation?...I would’ve thought that’s included with it?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 05:31PM
No Wirey. Never had access to that. So individuals get referred to who?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 15-02-20, 05:34PM
After 6 months of no movement then cases gets referred to LPP. That’s all it says.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 05:36PM
People partner I presume?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 15-02-20, 05:46PM
Lead People Partner. So is any one aware of any shops out there that actually still have their food stock manager as part of their structure?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 15-02-20, 05:48PM
Me, Mildew too! There are still others out there, most have taken the decision to go to a new role, which is totally understandable, but there are still managers in the role
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 05:49PM
I don’t know any specifically but it will be the very largest extras with fifteen or more staff in the dept.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: streaker on 15-02-20, 05:50PM
Assume theres still loads out there. Even Nfsc managers.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 05:52PM
I think the majority will have moved into vacancies. I’m not sure there will be loads
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: DJL on 15-02-20, 05:53PM
Sorry, misread your post!

There are NO food stock managers being kept, the role is being removed and all Accountabilities moved to the Stock And Admin Manager
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 05:55PM
That is not what was in my grievance response DJL. It says food stock control with over fifteen staff remain.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 15-02-20, 05:59PM
But the company’s logic is that the role is remaining within the wider business hence why it is an informal change rather then a formal one!! Annual review informal process kicks in when a particular store no longer qualifies for a role.

If we are informal then that’s because our own stores do not qualify for a FFSM...so by definition that should mean that there are some out there that do qualify...who and where??

I am asking this as I personally believe this is a company wide change and what what they told us is a BS.....there are some big extras on the group who lost the role!!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 15-02-20, 06:04PM
Yes mildew that’s correct. But do those teams of 15 exist anywhere out there?? Or did they set that bar so high knowing they won’t have a ff team of 15 out in the wider business?

I also find it strange that they based it on number of people rather than hours!!🤷🏽???
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Eewyn on 15-02-20, 06:10PM
Further up in this thread I posted the response I received from USDAW regarding the removal of the role. They said that because some stores were keeping the role of food stock manager the changes could be classed as soft structure and all be dealt with informally. They weren’t able to give an answer to how many stores were keeping the role. If it does turn out that no stores are actually keeping the role it does throw out their excuse for trying to treat this as soft structure change.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 06:16PM
Is every store removing the Food Stock Control Team Manager role as part of the annual review process?

Response
No. Where we currently have more than 15 colleagues in Stock, Space, Range, Display and Price in non night operating stores, a second (Food) manager is generated. We have decided to reduce the number of Stock (Food) Manager roles across Tesco and progress toward one manager role who will manage all Stock and Admin in our large stores.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 15-02-20, 06:30PM
Ok so in the extra shops they have more than 15...comfortably and yet they have been downsized still!! Something isn’t making sense here.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 06:33PM
It’s deliberately vague
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 06:34PM
“ Managers would normally be offered redundancy as part of the annual review process as the role is not being removed from Tesco”
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 06:36PM
Should say “would not normally “. My bad.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 15-02-20, 06:52PM
So the other question now is there a stock and admin manager out there who was made to take on a team of more than 15 as a result of this change!!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 06:54PM
Indeed. Would be interesting to know. If not, that means the role has been removed by the company.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 15-02-20, 06:56PM
15 in total so gives 2 stock managers?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 07:00PM
It says in non-night operating stores
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 15-02-20, 07:07PM
I think what it means it that PI are thrown in the count in non-night stores as they tend to fall under stock and admin.

Which means in night stores you don’t count them as they fall under the night team!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 07:09PM
It all smells a bit ...
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 15-02-20, 07:11PM
In my store we have; food = 14, non food = 3, wages = 1, PI = 2, we should have more colleagues too so over the prescribed as you mention?

We are nights store
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 15-02-20, 07:16PM
So you should have a FFSM....is that you? Has the role been removed from there?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 07:18PM
No, they are a nights store. They would if they were a non nights store I think.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 15-02-20, 07:26PM
Haha it’s vague...I’m reading it as more than 15 between stock+SRD+PI in non-nights!!
And in nights store it’s more than 15 between stock+SRD.

PI is only included in the number if they operate under the stock department which they do in non nights.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 15-02-20, 07:32PM
I’m in that role right now, but as stated prior, the job has been removed. 6 months up at end of Feb
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 15-02-20, 07:35PM
Likewise Me
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: TheAnonymousWorker on 15-02-20, 09:54PM
In my store we have 11 FSC, 3 NFSC, 2 PI, 2 Wages and 2 Merch. 24hr large Extra. Should we have 2 managers still then? We only have one now. FSC manager told they needed to find a new role as it would be becoming one role. Know its a similar situation in another 24hr large extra nearby.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 16-02-20, 07:01AM
Forgot the Merch team, (sorry) add 3 on!

The job is going, regardless of what they may have said
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 16-02-20, 08:33AM
That was never really in doubt Me, it’s how they have handled it so far and what they do next that’s the issue. They should not have mentioned a formal process if they don’t deliver on it.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: streaker on 16-02-20, 11:35AM
Hi, any supposedly , "stock and admin managers" out there, who are opposed to the combination of all into one role in large extra stores.
 Feels like a big challenge,  and seems to being slipped in without any consultation or discussion with people.

Would like to know others feeling and experiences so far.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Morris999 on 16-02-20, 01:47PM
When they have combined front end departments in the past and given a colleague amount for separate managers, they always worked it out at say for arguments sake over 15 equivalent full time colleagues.
So if the heat map says you need over 450 hours then you will get the extra manager.
At the time they worked full time as anything over 30 hours.

In a store I worked in previously they combined CSD, PFS, Cash office and trollies With checkouts!
as there wasn't enough hours on heatmap for CSD, PFS, C/O and trollies to make the requirements for the required fulltime positions then no services manager!
You can imagine how happy the Checkout manager was with this soft structure!

This type of soft structure has been happening for over a decade, it isn't going to go away and while I'm not saying just let it go, just don't be surprised if further down the line the outcome doesn't go your way.
I've seen managers refuse to accept other positions in stores, whether it be their current one or one closer to their home address and have their contract terminated.
Remember whether you like it or not Team manager roles are basically the same for the most part regardless of which department you manage.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: streaker on 16-02-20, 01:57PM
All that being said, surely there is a case of terms and conditions being changed.
My contract currently sits as stock manager,  and have no intension of signing a new one, to take on a bigger role.
Your comments are valid, but surely it is a breach of Tc's.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 16-02-20, 02:02PM
I have over twenty years service. No vacancies in my store, I don’t drive and have actually had assurances I won’t have to travel as it would impact me financially. Good luck sacking me. It won’t happen.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 16-02-20, 02:04PM
Just to add this isn’t soft structure, I’ve been put at pains to know that. It is Annual Review where a six month time window was stated with the likelihood of a formal process coming into play.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: streaker on 16-02-20, 02:35PM
Hi Mildred, similar stance, but a significant number of years service, and adamant not adopting new additional role.  Good luck. Keep posting
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: streaker on 16-02-20, 02:38PM
Sorry mildrew, bad spelling. Apologies
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 16-02-20, 02:39PM
Mildred at weekends 😂
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 16-02-20, 04:03PM
It’s great to see stock managers still out there who have refused to move role.  I understand the reasons behind this reorganisation and fully agree with the need to reduce headcount which in turn saves £££.  Over the years, stock control has been so heavily centralised with newer, simpler ways of working for stores, makes total sense, as there needs to be a cost saving with each new project rolled out.

The issue I have is, the 6 month ‘wait and see’ game they seem to be playing!  I am unable to plan for anything right now, my life, and that if my family has been put on hold, and for that I’m resentful.  This company have messed about with me, and my family, for too long.  The stated 6 month timeframe must be adhered to, so we can get on with our lives, further delays or non committal  will be viewed very negatively, my mindset has changed, my mental health and well-being is being ripped apart by this uncertainty!

I’m fully hoping there is a ‘transparent’ way forward for this
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 16-02-20, 04:09PM
Indeed Me.  I think our treatment is scandalous considering they preach about mental well-being. Hence why I went ahead with a grievance and also contacted Dave Lewis’s account handlers to express my deep concerns and their need to treat us fairly at the end of the six months. Life has indeed been put on hold .
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Teddybonkers on 16-02-20, 05:07PM
They don't care.  To management, we're not people - just numbers waiting to be culled from the payroll. Grievance this, grievance that - it doesn't matter to them. This company will do anything to save payroll - leave shelves, checkouts & shop floor empty, but  still expect the work to magically get done. Whether you're on the shop floor or in management, work like a donkey or take the p**s,  we're all expendable. Tesco want everything done on a shoestring, and its only going to get worse. 
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 16-02-20, 07:48PM
Is there a legal definition of "Soft Structure Change" It sounds like a Tesco Mickey Mouse Management buzzword to me. They define it so that because the role still exists in the wider business it's a soft structure change even though the removal of the role at an instore level is the black and white definition of redundancy.

This "Soft Structure Change" malarky sounds like an attempt at hoodwinking their staff out of redundancy by getting them to buy into this psuedo-legal management mumbo jumbo.

If they got rid of the ca role, bit it still exists in the wider business, they would legally be entitled to redundancy, otherwise they can keep the person in the position somewhere in the business and just "soft structure change" everyone out without a payout.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 16-02-20, 08:01PM
https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/defining-redundancy/ (https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/defining-redundancy/)

If other aspects if necessary work are added to the existing responsibilities of a FSC then it's to be classed as a different role it's extremely difficult for an employer to remove a role without it coming under as a redundancy situation.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 16-02-20, 08:19PM
Absolutely. They are keeping this as grey and vague as possible and dressing it up, saying it’s for our benefit this is happening. A total crock and they know it.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 16-02-20, 09:05PM
What kind of reply did you get back when you sent email to Dave Lewis office?

They can make changes NightandDay, but as we all would think, in a normal situation, an offer to accept new role is offered or redundancy, not this namby pamby Soft Structure BS!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 16-02-20, 09:09PM
It was so badly written it looks like a six year old wrote it. I’ll be taking it further so can’t really expand.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 16-02-20, 09:16PM
Good luck with it then.  I will be following suit in 2 weeks.  The countdown has began for us, there needs to be an appropriate resolution to this!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 16-02-20, 09:27PM
Totally. Why be passive?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 16-02-20, 11:06PM
They can make changes, but legally speaking they have to be insignificant changes, there's very little wiggle room, merging roles into one won't be seen as an insignificant change from a legal perspective. It would be classed as a material change. You can look up "Soft Structure Change redundancy" on google in the context of redundancy, you'd see Tesco is the only one using the fabricated term. I'd be so bold as to suggest that if someone went to Leigh Days or some other employment solicitors about this, there'd be a very strong case against Tesco not offering redundancy for what is clearly a redundancy situation.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 16-02-20, 11:10PM
Strangely they no longer call it soft structure. They’ve rebadged it under Annual Review .
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 17-02-20, 08:30AM
Most likely to another nonsense fabricated term to make it appear that they're acting under the remit of the law, as long as you don't let yourself be fooled or coerced out of your role without redundancy or at most the legal definition of "reasonable" alternative then they'll give you what you're legally obliged to sooner or later.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 17-02-20, 08:57AM
That’s my stance Night.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: m360 on 17-02-20, 06:59PM
It’s always been called Annual Review

Soft Structure is just another name used by some SDs
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 17-02-20, 07:24PM
Strange how they went out of the way to differentiate between the two with me.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 17-02-20, 07:37PM
All very boring now. This six months can’t end soon enough.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 17-02-20, 08:01PM
Thanks m360....any thoughts around what we discussed above regarding the apparent criteria of team larger than 15 would generate a second stock managers yet that doesn’t seem to be the case....are there any food stock managers left untouched as a result of this informal change?

The company’s logics behind the change seems to rely on these two factors!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: m360 on 17-02-20, 08:16PM
The 15 won’t be based on physical people employed.
I believe it’s budgeted headcount and one head equals something like 25 hours.

So if you have 25 hours x 15 = 375 hours budgeted across all the  stock control departments, you will get or keep a second manager
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: m360 on 17-02-20, 08:21PM
Annual Review and Soft Structure are the same process.

The management structure for each store is reviewed once per year, hence Annual Review.

Soft structure refers to the fact that any changes in roles are resolved informally rather than through use of redundancy.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 17-02-20, 08:22PM
My reply said dependent on sales and colleague headcount.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 17-02-20, 08:25PM
Thank you m360...I suppose my next question is based on how the annual review proposed change is resolved once it hits the 6 months mark?
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 17-02-20, 08:41PM
As much as the explanation gives some insight into the ‘behind the scenes’ thought process, it can’t give us any further answers to our main question, and that is what is the next step after 6 months!

The fact remains, that we, am I right to include you Wirey2020, you had the same conversation, that the Stock Manager job no longer exists in our store, so any working out of the headcount is irrelevant as a conversation had taken place to explain our role is being removed from the store.

Obviously there is still 2 weeks to go, and I can’t believe there has not been any chat in the centre with what to do with the remaining Food Managers
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: m360 on 17-02-20, 08:48PM
I would be extremely surprised if redundancy is offered, especially with the move away from using redundancy in the Q1 changes this year.

Could be wrong, someone somewhere will have worked out the number of people that haven’t moved and the cost of resolving it.

Far more likely is store managers being put under extra pressure to get it fixed using the vacancies that are available locally.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 17-02-20, 08:52PM
The mention of formal process in the first meeting leads me to think the remaining managers will go into consultation. This cannot go on indefinitely.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 17-02-20, 08:55PM
And was started well outside the q1 plans so may be the last of the redundancies.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 17-02-20, 09:31PM
I can understand that reasoning m360, however there are still areas, such as mine, that no vacancies exist and ‘putting pressure’ on the store manager who will do the same to the stock manager may lead to unreasonable behaviour especially if the conversations that have been had are sound in relation to say, not moving to another store due to transport issues or not taking a role in a store where the hours worked currently are far different to what is expected in the ‘new’ store....then where will that leave Tesco??
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: m360 on 17-02-20, 09:42PM
I’m not defending that approach, it’s just what I think will happen.

Could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 17-02-20, 09:45PM
Me2015, I’m trying to ascertain whether there is any other stock managers left who are not affected in the wider business as like I said it’s what the logic behind the change being an informal one. But yes, not long now, the cynic in me though doesn’t think they’ll come out with a resolution bang on the end of the 6 months!!

Hopefully I’m wrong too!!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 17-02-20, 11:02PM
That is fair enough m360.

Wirey2020, I’ve asked this question at the start, and given the answer I can be certain that NO Food Stock Managers will remain.  Following on from WK12 simplification and ongoing reduction of accountabilities for us, the role is no longer required in stores, as the Stock and Admin Manager now has the similar spans of control similar to the Grocery and Non Food Replenishment Managers.

I’m hopeful for a transparent conversation at the end of the 6 month period, as promised at my meeting.  I’ve already started the process of getting a resolution by making requests to my store manager about the impending timeframe.  I will make further representations to the relevant executives in WGC come the end of Feb
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 17-02-20, 11:11PM
Me, what you have been told  about no food managers remaining completely flies in the face of my grievance response. They need to get their story straight.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 17-02-20, 11:25PM
I recall you saying something similar a little while back.

They are obviously not going to disclose the information on demand, however can I ask if you were told that was the case?

I’ve asked the question too, I’ve done some research into this also, I know lots of people who know people around the country, none have come back to say the role is being kept.  There are some very large extra stores who at first glance would seem to warrant 2 managers but the ‘informal’ discussions are being had with every manager
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Redshoes on 18-02-20, 03:36AM
All should be asked, no matter how big the store. Managers don't always live local, many travel as they have to go to where there are jobs. It opens up options for all if all are consulted. It could be that somebody is happy to move roles in a store that retains this role but that gives the option for another person who wants to retain this role to move into that role. It could be that this opens up a role in a store closer to home, for one or two. Granted it won't be many but if these questions are not asked it closes the door to one solution, even if does not apply to many.
In my store only two managers live local, all the rest travel in from about 15-20 miles. All that travel have stores nearer to home.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 18-02-20, 07:55AM
Me2015, if you scroll back a bit I directly quote what I have in black and white which says the role is not being removed from every store.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 18-02-20, 10:09AM
I have reviewed this thread and understand you put a grievance in about the situation. In terms of the hearing, who completed this; was it internal or out with your store?

They have obviously given you feedback based on your questions however how has this feedback been validated?

What I’m saying is, given we are in the same position, and very likely have followed the same avenues to challenge, the responses seem to be different hence my questions about the feedback given to you!

I’m in no doubt this situation is a clear money saving exercise.  They have spent an absolute fortune on redundancy payments, from the little amounts from GA’s to the astronomical amounts given to Store Managers and above.

Given previous leaks, I’d say this process is one which keeps the resources rather than throw away and allows those who want to stay, to do so in another role.  I can say, and I may be wrong, but the job is going in every store. 

The next couple of weeks will be interesting to see how they progress, either drag their heels a bit like the current government and Brexit, or a well thought out plan is ready to go!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 18-02-20, 10:37AM
It was heard by a people partner from another group and I believe the information in the response came largely from Colleague Relations Team.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 18-02-20, 10:51AM
That’s interesting then, were they coy about making such bold statements or matter of fact, as my experience was very nonchalant, clearly trying to make me feel like I was in the wrong for not accepting a move?!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Wirey2020 on 18-02-20, 10:59AM
Getting the same treatment Me...got another meeting soon regarding moving 🙄
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 18-02-20, 11:01AM
By sounds of it you are well versed in saying ‘no’ so good luck and stick to your guns!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 18-02-20, 11:34AM
Me, it was very much a statement of this is the policy and a categoric statement that the job role is not being removed by the company, just at stores which fall outside the parameters.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: NightAndDay on 18-02-20, 11:42AM
Remember you're not in the wrong if the move is unreasonable, a redundancy situation is where your job role is removed for you (just because it exists for some in the wider business doesn't change the fact it's still a job removal and therefore still a factor in a redundancy situation) and any job moves offered must be reasonable, this is where they'll try to coerce you into thinking what they're offering is reasonable and any refusal will mean you're out of a job without a payout, remember Tesco conforms to the law, not the other way round.
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 18-02-20, 11:48AM
Night, also from my grievance...”Managers would not normally be offered redundancy as part of the annual review process as the role is not being removed from Tesco. ‘.    Also. ....’A manager is eligible for redundancy in a situation where their role no longer exists within our structure or where the majority of work their role performs is no longer being done. It is the role that is made redundant, not an individual. ‘

Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Me2015 on 18-02-20, 11:55AM
Standard response from the office that!
Title: Re: Food Stock Managers
Post by: Mildew on 18-02-20, 12:03PM
Yep, directly off their crib sheet!