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Very Little Helps => Union matters. => Topic started by: Halftone84 on 14-08-19, 05:07PM

Title: RHRP
Post by: Halftone84 on 14-08-19, 05:07PM
Hi all, my store (express) is currently going through rhrp.

Only one of my shifts has been down to change, my Monday 12-18:30, moved to Monday 13:30-20:00.

I've argued that this is unreasonable because I already work Tuesday, wednesday, Thursday until midnight (close) and a Saturday 5:30 (so unable to do anything Friday nights), so Monday takes another night off me that I can't do anything socially.

They've also moved another member of staff to work a 12-19:00 where my shift practically was.

I offered to compromise in the "informal meeting" and work until 19:00, and was told as it stands, 19:00-20:00 I'm the only member of staff in the building ....

Also, this past Monday I was told by the sm handling rhrp, that she has a letter for me, and my meeting is Saturday.  As it stands, I still haven't received the letter.  I assume she's just going to try and pull me I to a meeting at some point during my shift Saturday.  Am I within my rights to refuse this ?

I haven't rang the union yet, I was planning on doing it as soon as I received the letter to arrange a rep for the time of the meeting.

Anyone got any advice ?


Also, rather than make a new thread, what's the sick call policy ? For 16 years I was under the impression you called in sick, then you had to call back the day before to notify them of your return ? I was told Monday I didn't follow procedure, which is the ring every single day to say I'd be off sick ??

Cheers in advance
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: NightAndDay on 14-08-19, 05:19PM
They should have got you to fill in an availability form and have a meeting with you before changing your hours, if you did fill in an availability form stating you can't work the hours you've been moved to, a grievance should be raised.

As for being in the building alone, it's a health and safety violation, if you're also not a shift leader (or above) then that's double jeopardy on them and is not a valid reason for your hours to be moved, I would also raise this in a seperate grievance, if it's unavoidable, download the Tesco meeting notes and close the store during time you are left alone in the store, do not do any work during this time stating the fact that if you had an accident, you would be stuck injured as there is nobody else there if it ever goes to investigation/disciplinary.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Halftone84 on 14-08-19, 05:24PM
We were told by the old sm availability forms were practically useless and they will use "needs of the business", I filled one in months ago, and was asked to fill another one in just before he left, so I assume he lost the original (I didn't do a second one)

It's not me alone, sorry, it's me and the shift leader, no other CA's in the building between 7-8pm.  One on one just seems the norm now.

My argument with the Monday late evening is, that nobody under the proposed new hours does 3 closes, I'm on my normal 3 closes, an early, and being moved to an 8pm finish.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: lucgeo on 14-08-19, 05:56PM
First off...needs of the business, they need to show to prove the needs of the business to you. They need to produce a business plan.

Was your Monday availability window, that you filled in, up to 20.00?? If it was, then they can change your shift up to this time.

The other member of staff they have moved into 12.00 - 19.00 shift, were their hours very similar to, or the majority of this shift?

You need to contact your union rep, and do not go into any more meetings without them. If you are pulled in on Saturday, without notice or letter provided beforehand, you can ask for an adjournment, as you have not been notified, as policy dictates, by way of a letter to enable you to prepare and arrange union representation. Only do this, once the note taker has begun taking notes, then ask for a copy of the notes prior to adjoining the meeting. Make sure your statements are recorded fully and accurately before signing.

I'm unsure of this sick policy, I know it changed from just ringing in to advise them of your return, but I'd be suprised if it is every day?? I was of the understanding that it was every couple of days, to update?? Were you informed on your initial sick call to keep them updated every day?? If not, and you are rarely sick, unless you have signed off training that you are aware of the sickness policy, then how can you not be following a procedure you were unaware of?? The duty manager on your first sick call should have advised you of the policy, therefore their mistake, not yours.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Welshie on 14-08-19, 07:45PM
In our store when you phone in sick you phone every day . When you are signed off sick by a doctor,  they will tell you to update on a certain day , ie; put line in on Monday,  they'll ask you to update them on Thursday/fri .
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Halftone84 on 14-08-19, 08:20PM
First off...needs of the business, they need to show to prove the needs of the business to you. They need to produce a business plan.

Was your Monday availability window, that you filled in, up to 20.00?? If it was, then they can change your shift up to this time.

The other member of staff they have moved into 12.00 - 19.00 shift, were their hours very similar to, or the majority of this shift?

You need to contact your union rep, and do not go into any more meetings without them. If you are pulled in on Saturday, without notice or letter provided beforehand, you can ask for an adjournment, as you have not been notified, as policy dictates, by way of a letter to enable you to prepare and arrange union representation. Only do this, once the note taker has begun taking notes, then ask for a copy of the notes prior to adjoining the meeting. Make sure your statements are recorded fully and accurately before signing.

I'm unsure of this sick policy, I know it changed from just ringing in to advise them of your return, but I'd be suprised if it is every day?? I was of the understanding that it was every couple of days, to update?? Were you informed on your initial sick call to keep them updated every day?? If not, and you are rarely sick, unless you have signed off training that you are aware of the sickness policy, then how can you not be following a procedure you were unaware of?? The duty manager on your first sick call should have advised you of the policy, therefore their mistake, not yours.

Rhrp has been started because we've had 2 leave, one who works all earlies, and one who works all lates, just over 60hrs out the business.

I honestly can't remember, but I'm sure I wouldn't have filled in 8pm on a Monday for the same reason I'm arguing now. Can I request to see the availability form ? And what if they can't produce it (like I said, I think he lost the first ones he got us to fill in)

The girl moved to the 12-7 has been moved off a Friday daytime shift, a 10-5 I think, to the Monday 12-7.  When I offered to compromise, and asked why she can't be on until 8pm, it's because they've moved another of her shifts to 5:30 Tuesday, and she's agreed to the 10.5 hour gap.

I'll phone the union tomorrow, one of the local reps is aware it's going on because she's been representing another lad here.

This same sm said to me ring in tomorrow and let us know if your off, but I've never been told this before, and one of the shift leaders text me to ask anyway.  I asked another shift leader that's on tonight about this policy of ringing in sick daily, and he said he's never heard it before.  My sick is at 6.3% apparently, which is the highest it's ever been, and I'm due my first AR in 15.5 years, so I'm not too fussed about that, I was just unsure if this was a new policy we've not been told about.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: londoner83 on 14-08-19, 09:38PM
The sick policy is you need to keep the store updated but how often relys on a common sense approach. If a colleague has been signed off work with a broken leg I can see no reason why they need to call daily to confirm what is already known  however if you called in day 1 with headache it would be reasonable for you to update on day 2 then on day 3 etc.

In your specific case much will depend on your reason for absence and what you actually said when you called in. It would not be unreasonable for Tesco to expect a update if you said you were trying to see a GP.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: lucgeo on 14-08-19, 11:04PM
I would ask to see the availability form they have used to change your shifts. In my opinion, and if I was your rep I would argue that to move your shift to accommodate another would be unreasonable, and to agree the change with another, before speaking  to you is questionable, as they are basically giving someone else your contracted shift, at a detriment to you. The fact that she has agreed to work and prepared to disregard the working time directive, is also questionable, as to why they are showing a preference to this colleague.

I would certainly speak ASAP to your rep, as I'm pretty sure they can't take a shift from one person, to give to another, even with the 30 min difference, the bulk of that shift is yours. Does any other GA do three close nights per week?
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: tumshie on 14-08-19, 11:40PM
It was on a Team 5, recently, that policy is now to phone in every day for absence.
If you haven't signed as seeing the Team 5 or any other training / notification, I don't see that they can claim you knew about this.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Halftone84 on 15-08-19, 12:49AM
I would ask to see the availability form they have used to change your shifts. In my opinion, and if I was your rep I would argue that to move your shift to accommodate another would be unreasonable, and to agree the change with another, before speaking  to you is questionable, as they are basically giving someone else your contracted shift, at a detriment to you. The fact that she has agreed to work and prepared to disregard the working time directive, is also questionable, as to why they are showing a preference to this colleague.

I would certainly speak ASAP to your rep, as I'm pretty sure they can't take a shift from one person, to give to another, even with the 30 min difference, the bulk of that shift is yours. Does any other GA do three close nights per week?

Thanks. I'll give the union a ring tomorrow and see what they say.

One woman at the moment does 3 closes, but if she was to accept her new shifts, she'd be on 2 closes and a 10pm finish.  My biggest complaint is moving someone onto practically the same shift, and then pretty much writing off the Monday nights for me personally.

And tumshie, team ... 5 ??? What's this ? Those weekly things we used to get years and years ago and had to sign weekly to say we'd read them ? 😂😂
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: NightAndDay on 15-08-19, 01:42AM
Team 5 is written on the whiteboard in the staff room, it's an update of major and minor business changes and, some stores use it to highlight routine issues and other storewide issues though.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Halftone84 on 15-08-19, 08:53AM
We haven't had a team 5 in store for years !
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Munchkin on 15-08-19, 09:22AM
Daily updates of sickness is NOT official policy you update in a common sense way depending on the issue and if you have a sicknote or new information from an appointment and you no longer have to call a day before you return you can call on the day and return for your normal shift that day
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Cleaner1 on 15-08-19, 09:57AM
We have a Team 5 but there is always people who don't get the information
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: tumshie on 15-08-19, 11:17AM
We had no Team 5 for a few years but now the managers have to make a point of reporting to the SM every week that we've seen it and signed for it.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Redshoes on 15-08-19, 12:03PM
Keeping in contact has been live for ages. We are asked to ring in daily until we have fit note but if you don't work Tuesday or Wednesday for example you ring for Monday shift and say you will update for Thursday. Once you have a fit note the policy is for you to stay in contact. You can't just hand in a series of fit notes, you need to stay in contact too. This could be that you have a dr app on Thursday and are expecting to be signed off for a further two weeks but will update after dr's. You can be invited in for a wellness meeting after four weeks, can be done at your home if needed. This is to document progress and offer support, as in you could come back to light duties. Wellness meetings should continue at four wkly intervals until you are back.
There are constant changes to policy, all online now. They don't have to inform us of individual changes as all available to us online. If policy not followed for not staying in contact it should be a brief to you to let you know what is expected but then going forward it follows normal disciplinary route.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: lucgeo on 15-08-19, 01:52PM
Whoa...your last paragraph is nonsensical. " they don't HAVE TO inform us of individual changes as all available to us online" since when was the onus on the employee to keep themselves updated on policy changes?? To not do so and remain ignorant of any changes does not form any disciplinary situation, going forward...unless the policy changes are printed out, and each colleague updated by way of written communication for a suitable length of time. Not to brief someone because they have not kept themselves updated on policy changes, therefore not followed policy procedure, and should not be part of any disciplinary route.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Paupers wage on 15-08-19, 02:33PM
Daily updates of sickness is NOT official policy you update in a common sense way depending on the issue and if you have a sicknote or new information from an appointment and you no longer have to call a day before you return you can call on the day and return for your normal shift that day

To right Munchkin common sense and not-this ringing up everyday nonsense, Tesco’s over managed in every sense
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: alf on 15-08-19, 02:33PM
As long as the policies aren’t contractual “in nature” he’s not wrong, they don’t need consent nor do they need to notify us.

Don’t get me wrong it’s good practice to notify if changes of course.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: lucgeo on 15-08-19, 02:53PM
Well if that is the new way, then that opens the floodgates for all the ignorant amongst us...your defence always being..."I didn't know, I wasn't made aware of any new policy, I don't have Internet, where in my contract does it state that I have agreed to keep myself informed and updated on any ongoing policy changes??"
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: alf on 15-08-19, 03:44PM
I wouldn’t call it the new way, the same problems occurred during the times of the handbook.

My first handbook when I started was out of date (changed) when I received it.

I know personally if they tried to discipline me for not following a policy that was changed, i would grievance it, as I certainty feel it would be an unreasonable disciplinary action.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Walker on 15-08-19, 07:15PM
I agree with Munchkin. I even checked the sickness absence policy on Ourtesco in case it's changed and it hasn't.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Redshoes on 15-08-19, 07:52PM
As online

What should I do if I'm ill?
If you’re not well and you can’t come into work, you’ll need to call into work to tell them you won’t be in as soon as possible, but at least no later than one hour (two hours for Convenience) before the start of your shift. If you can’t get through and it goes to voicemail you should leave a message asking them to call you back.

Do I need to keep in contact if I'm off?
Yes, you need to keep in contact with us whilst you’re away from work. We want to look after your health and wellbeing; therefore it’s important for us to keep in contact with you to understand your condition, the impact it has on you at work and any potential support we can offer you.

We also have a legal duty to consider and make any reasonable adjustments, if you have an underlying health condition which is a potential disability; therefore we need to have regular conversations to understand this and whether you may be covered by the Equality Act.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: gomezz on 15-08-19, 08:24PM
Quote
What should I do if I'm ill?
If you’re not well and you can’t come into work, you’ll need to call into work to tell them you won’t be in as soon as possible
Did anyone proof-read this ambiguous gobbledygook before it was published.  I am absolutely certain that it is not what they meant to say!   8-)
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: lucgeo on 15-08-19, 08:47PM
Not seeing anything there to state a colleague needs to ring in every day whilst off??
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Halftone84 on 15-08-19, 09:20PM
So, walked in tonight and at 18:01 was given a letter by the shift leader about a meeting Saturday 10am.

Letter is dated 9th August, so I've wrote on it, received 15th August at 18:00. I also have two witnesses to say they saw it handed to me at that time.  I assume the 30 day consultation starts when I get that letter, not by the date on it ?

Obviously first thing I did was ring the union office, which closes at 6pm.  I'll be ringing them again tomorrow, but another woman has been trying, and struggling to get a rep for Saturday at 11am.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: chris9997 on 16-08-19, 11:11AM
It was on a Team 5, recently, that policy is now to phone in every day for absence.
If you haven't signed as seeing the Team 5 or any other training / notification, I don't see that they can claim you knew about this.
i don’t see this on any team 5 recently and had a look at the latest sick policy and it states you need to keep in touch with your store/depot/office does not say how often so the info on your team 5 was added at your location not a head office instruction.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: lucgeo on 16-08-19, 12:14PM
@Halftone84

Do not allow the consultation to commence if you do not have a rep... Cite the lateness in receiving the pre dated letter as giving unreasonable amount of time to secure representation. Insist on an adjournment. What did USDAW advise.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Walker on 16-08-19, 02:40PM
Not seeing anything there to state a colleague needs to ring in every day whilst off??

The full policy available on Ourtesco suggests that it depends on agreement between you and your manager but weekly contact would be typical for short term absence.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Walker on 16-08-19, 02:41PM
My understanding is consultation begins at the first informal meeting.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Harpy0001 on 16-08-19, 02:59PM
The consultation starts in a written dated letter stating that it is the start of the consultation.  This can also be done by a form. This is normally done by letter.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Halftone84 on 16-08-19, 05:27PM
@Halftone84

Do not allow the consultation to commence if you do not have a rep... Cite the lateness in receiving the pre dated letter as giving unreasonable amount of time to secure representation. Insist on an adjournment. What did USDAW advise.

Spoke to a rep that's helped me in the past who told me being given the letter at 6pm was rediculous, and that she doesn't work weekends, and to phone and rearrange the meeting. So it's now Monday, when the rep can come over to see me.

Harpy, I'd assume I need to be given this letter stating the 30 day consultation has started ?
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: lucgeo on 16-08-19, 06:01PM
I'm assuming you have informed the manager that the meeting is postponed and rearranged the meeting for Monday?

You should have been made aware, at the initial informal meeting, of the consultation period, the procedures, and implications if no agreement or compromise is found, should either be necessary in your situation.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Anomalies on 16-08-19, 09:00PM
This may help you understand the process that should be followed.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Tallen on 17-08-19, 08:31AM
The policy is that you need to phone in to inform them that you are returning to work.  You do not have to phone every day, even if they do put it in the team 5.... how long were you off for?  .... I would call your personnel manager for clarification as they are there for you too and not just managers.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Anomalies on 17-08-19, 09:08AM
 :thumbup:
The policy is that you need to phone in to inform them that you are returning to work.  You do not have to phone every day, even if they do put it in the team 5.... how long were you off for?  .... I would call your personnel manager for clarification as they are there for you too and not just managers.

That was unfortunately the old policy, although daily is a bit over the top it would depend on the situation as other people have said. So a daily update if it's a short term illness on your working shifts could be requested. They are also now ok to call you while you are off to see how you are and support you.

The policy now is,


"Do I need to keep in contact if I'm off?

Yes, you need to keep in contact with us whilst you’re away from work. We want to look after your health and wellbeing; therefore it’s important for us to keep in contact with you to understand your condition, the impact it has on you at work and any potential support we can offer you.

We also have a legal duty to consider and make any reasonable adjustments, if you have an underlying health condition which is a potential disability; therefore we need to have regular conversations to understand this and whether you may be covered by the Equality Act."

The full and most recent policy is always available on ourteco.com just search sickness to find it. I would attach it but the file is to large for this forum.

Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: lucgeo on 17-08-19, 09:32AM
This may help...

Moving People Around The Business
Usdaw Guide Section 1.1

Before entering into the consultation period the relevant manager must first establish a legitimate business case for the change. It is important to note that it is not simply enough for a manager to say there is business need, they must be able to demonstrate a legitimate business case for the proposed changes and clearly show that other options have been considered before the proposal to change hours has been put forward for discussion.

If the proposed changes are in relation to moving hours, then the business case must be established using the Right Hours Right Place report. This report allows managers to identify where hours are needed in store. This will depend on a variety of different factors and will be different for each store.

It is important to remember that Reps are entitled to see the business case. If the Company are unable to demonstrate a legitimate business case for the proposed change, then an individual may reasonably refuse to accept the change.

N*B*....For example, moving hours in order to accommodate the needs of other employees would not be considered a legitimate business case. Staff should not be disadvantaged nor have their department/hours moved in order to accommodate other employees who wish to move....

Another example may be where there is a significant reduction in trade on a particular department where they can no longer support the current hours; in these circumstances the Company should be able to demonstrate a legitimate business case.

The Company should also ensure that there is a permanent need to change, and not just to accommodate fluctuations in market conditions as a result of, for example, promotions. Temporary changes like this should normally be staffed using other measures, such as overtime or staff who are already on flexi contracts.

Only after the Company have established the business case and all options have been explored should the manager consider starting the consultation period. These options could include looking at:

labour turnover
known leavers
future refurbishment plans
further business initiatives
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: lucgeo on 17-08-19, 10:24AM
Also, are the two leavers to be replaced? Have the positions been advertised for the full amount of hours or part of?? If so, then it is not a RHRP situation.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: Halftone84 on 17-08-19, 11:14AM
Thanks for that, oil mention it to the rep Monday.

My manager has agreed to postpone the meeting until Monday.

We were told the two leavers were not being replaced, and we were getting a 4th team leader instead.
Title: Re: RHRP
Post by: lucgeo on 17-08-19, 12:05PM
Hmmm....then I'd question if it really is a RHRP situation, as it would seem to be that people are being moved to accommodate the proposed hours of, as yet to be confirmed, new position and colleague, or if the position has in fact been filled, and contract hours agreed.