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Very Little Helps => Union matters. => Topic started by: killthearchitect on 06-08-19, 04:08AM

Title: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: killthearchitect on 06-08-19, 04:08AM
Hi all,

A bizarre situation. A Team Manager and a store manager told me somebody was getting invited to an investigatory for having forgotten they had swapped a shift with another colleague a week or so previous.

Then he tells me it's not him that's doing it, he's getting an SM from another store to come and do it. And surprise, surprise it's moved to disciplinary.

Is it wrong of me to assume that it was always planned on it being a disciplinary by not doing the investigatory ?

Similar, somebody left my personnel file alongside all investigatory paperwork in a desk drawer that isn't locked and all mgmt team use for stationary.

Anyway, the fact that someone else was already doing the investigatory with me had alarm bells ringing immediately.

Thanks all.
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: BarryZola on 06-08-19, 07:27AM
You're a Manager, you're supposed to be setting an example to others. It's not OK to say you're going to turn up for a shift and then not turn up. You have more responsibility than GA's so it was probably even more important for you to be there when you were missing for that shift. I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be expecting a disciplinary for this.

If you have any problems with your SM then this is a separate matter and you have options to report anything you think is not being done correctly.
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: lucgeo on 06-08-19, 08:06AM
Somewhat harsh methinks 8-) 8-)

I'm unsure of the disciplinary procedures concerning managers, as previously the P.M. would have done the investigation and the SM the disciplinary. Was an explanation given as to why your area P.M. was not present??

With regard your Personnel file. I would suggest you take photographic/ video evidence as to its unsecured location and the contents available for anyone to read. If your file contains any information relating to a medical condition, or any medical correspondence from your doctor, hospital ( including fit notes ) then it comes under the data protection act, and should be grievanced as such.

Or you could just take them and the investigation notes, and accidentally drop them behind his filing cabinet, for him to explain how they have gone missing from a locked personnel drawer, that he only has access to  :-X

Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: BarryZola on 06-08-19, 08:13AM
Yes, reading back I may have been overly harsh, so apologies for that. However, people do need to realize that there are personal consequences when you mess up. Sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and accept it.
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: jack_cohens_shame on 06-08-19, 08:35AM
Did nobody call you when you didn't turn up and ask you to come in so that you could have made your shift, even slightly late?
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: lucgeo on 06-08-19, 08:39AM
You'd think wouldn't you?? 8-)

We always had managers shift swapping, then cocking up the times...usually a phone call along the lines of "get your arse here now!!" sufficed, followed by staying later and given every c**p job going.
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: slugz123 on 06-08-19, 08:57AM
My thoughts on this...
You were AWOL,Your lead manager should of then sent a letter to invite you to make contact.
At worst this is a conduct issue and you should have 2 informal let's talk documents before any disciplinary process is started.

This is the process as per policys for people anything otherwise is total nonsense
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: Adywebb on 06-08-19, 09:05AM
Does policy really say you must have two lets talks before any conduct disciplinary?

That being said, unless this has caused serious issues or there is a history of this I would have thought a lets talk on the first occasion would be adequate.
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: DJL on 06-08-19, 09:50AM
Over kill here, it had clearly had an impact on the store operation and your no show needs to be addressed however to be invited to an investigatory then to be disciplined is majorly over the top; yes it could be classed as AWOL however common sense should’ve be the main factor not this over the top reaction - unless there is more to the story than you are letting on??

If they are playing the AWOL card, did they follow process and send out letter ect and a welcome back on your return?

You and all other colleagues need to be treat fairly and consistently and this is not any of these!
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: the postman on 06-08-19, 10:00AM
You can't move straight to disciplinary before a thorough investigation has been carried out...except for gross misconduct but this instance clearly isn't.
You should've had a lets talk at most.
Let it play out and appeal any outcome ,lack of process being followed will have it chuckled out .
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: King1999 on 06-08-19, 10:36AM
No one died,it's a shop carry on.
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: Arizonarugby on 06-08-19, 04:09PM
You're a Manager, you're supposed to be setting an example to others. It's not OK to say you're going to turn up for a shift and then not turn up. You have more responsibility than GA's so it was probably even more important for you to be there when you were missing for that shift. I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be expecting a disciplinary for this.

If you have any problems with your SM then this is a separate matter and you have options to report anything you think is not being done correctly.

Ooooh are we one of Lewis’s bottom lickers ...firstly, there is s process to follow, which is investigatory meeting which will (or should ) decide with path to take, ie disciplinary or informal 
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: Unsung heroes on 06-08-19, 05:39PM
Firstly as a manager you should know that this is classed as misconduct as you were Awol and didn't notify store so could be described as a none notification issue which is also misconduct.
Secondly I'm presuming that your in a smaller format store or your lead manager would conduct the investigation. (unless your lead team)
Imagine the scenario... You have a member of staff that does this.... What would you do?.... Investigation? Yes..... Disciplinary? Maybe..... So this is the correct course but its strange that another SM is coming and doing it for sure so does sound pre-emptive which is against policy but you'd have to prove that
As for the privacy issue.... There is none in tesco
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: jack_cohens_shame on 06-08-19, 06:08PM
You have got to watch your back now because silly mistakes like this they are going to jump all over and make a fuss about. Just don't give them any ammo.
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: DairyLee on 06-08-19, 09:48PM
I'd agree the right process is being followed. You were AWOL and some form of corrective action should be taken. A disciplinary has a lot of outcomes not necessarily a warning.

Where is the desk with your personnel file? As a manager you would have access to personnel files anyway as would other managers. Being locked in a managers office or locked in a filing cabinet not sure what the difference is?
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: Redshoes on 06-08-19, 11:21PM
is this the first time of doing this or has it happened before. We are all allowed to be human and mistakes do happen but it's a bigger issue if it's a repeat issue or if it is seen as manipulating shifts.
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: lucgeo on 07-08-19, 07:29AM
I'd agree the right process is being followed. You were AWOL and some form of corrective action should be taken. A disciplinary has a lot of outcomes not necessarily a warning.

Where is the desk with your personnel file? As a manager you would have access to personnel files anyway as would other managers. Being locked in a managers office or locked in a filing cabinet not sure what the difference is?

I would expect line manager personal files to be locked and restricted for the viewing of senior team and store manager only. GA's files should be stored in a locked secure area, and a line manager should only be viewing documents relevant to the meeting they're conducting and not able to take the whole file to peruse.

The difference being the personnel file wasn't locked away anywhere, but left in an unlocked drawer along with the replenishment stationery, for anyone to see!
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: londoner83 on 07-08-19, 08:55AM
Its specifically says in the new disciplinary training that disciplinary meetings should be held by someone impartial. It may well therefore be perfectly reasonable that someone from outside your store conducts the meeting. The manager you were due to swap shifts with obviously cant get involved nor can anyone else who may have been impacted by your absence.

On a separate note was this shift swap agreed in writing?  If it was a colleague involved would we just accept colleague A saying colleague B was covering me
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: penguin on 07-08-19, 11:22AM
What can you expect you were not in work when you should have been, would you accept a member of your team simply saying I forgot I had swapped shifts with Fred for example.

The point you make about the file being left in an unsecured location wont affect this, you could raise the issues separately if you want but it really seems as if your clutching at straws by bringing that up.

Also your wrong that people cannot have travel time and expenses paid, if it has been correctly approved and authorised then it is allowed and bringing that up will again not get you anywhere.

You might think I'm being negative but the fact is you have messed up, best thing to do is admit your mistake, take whatever comes from the meeting and move on.
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: slugz123 on 08-08-19, 09:15PM
As said before its AWOL at worse.2 Informals then onto disciplinary.Whatever work level you are
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: slugz123 on 08-08-19, 09:18PM
Does policy really say you must have two lets talks before any conduct disciplinary?

That being said, unless this has caused serious issues or there is a history of this I would have thought a lets talk on the first occasion would be adequate.

No this is for AWOL process only
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: lucgeo on 14-08-19, 07:16AM
WTF  8-)

Is there a code in there, like those picture puzzles??

Administrator Comment Post deleted and member banned.
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: BlueToon on 14-08-19, 07:54AM
"Is there a code in there"
No Lucgeo, it's not a code.
It is a picture of the stores GA's trying to understand what the heck is going on with the company.
:-)
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: lucgeo on 14-08-19, 08:01AM
Unless they're applying for a vacancy with the Russian plumbing company...decoriko.ru??
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: NightAndDay on 14-08-19, 08:41AM
Strange the moderators aren't as proactive on removing this post (clearly a bot posting an advert) compared to others for quoting immediately prior posts and other reasons.

Administrator Comment Post deleted and member banned. Nothing strange we do not eat, sleep & breathe VLH 24 hours a day. I won't try to explain why we delete immediately prior posts as it is to obvious to those with a little understanding, as for "other reasons" if you have a gripe with Admin or Mods let us know what it is. Nomad.
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: lackofinterest on 14-08-19, 04:45PM
s***!! i missed it. what was it about?? :-X
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: NightAndDay on 14-08-19, 05:08PM
A bot made an account advertising a website spammed with lots of emotes.
Title: Re: Advice on Investigatory moving to Disciplinary
Post by: lackofinterest on 14-08-19, 05:11PM
cheers  :). didn't miss much then ??? 8-)