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Very Little Helps => Stores => Topic started by: Youngmod93 on 11-06-19, 11:57PM

Title: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Youngmod93 on 11-06-19, 11:57PM
Hey,

I currently work in a busy store in the main city centre.

I’ve recently been told we need to write our breaks in the blue book to get paid. I’ve spoken to other shift leaders round this area & also asked them if they’ve been getting paid breaks some say it’s so inconsistent & some have never been paid breaks.

I’m mostly without another management team member in the evenings & some mornings. So even if I leave to sit down for a break, I will still need to answer double bells. I roughly take 30 minutes break if I’m lucky. Considering we do 9 hours a day and get paid 7.5 is shocking.

Customer team member does 9 hours shift - gets 60 mins unpaid break = £8.42 x 8 =£67.34
Shift leader does 9 hour shift - gets 90 minutes unpaid break = £10.29 x 7.5 = £77.17

So basically the customer team member can leave the building for one hour & do as they please.
Me on the other hand and other shift leaders have to answer bells on break and only able to take 30 minutes if we’re lucky.

Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Overworked1 on 12-06-19, 12:17AM
Your getting a ten how much are you looking for.  >:D
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: spacerman on 12-06-19, 02:23AM
The joys of earning £10 more per shift than someone else, don't like it step down and have your hour. That £100 to £150 extra a month would happily be accepted by the lesser paid person who would happily give up the hour.

Tesco insists we take the unpaid break even if we do not want the full 60 minutes I would happily give up 50% of my break for more money.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Overworked1 on 12-06-19, 02:30AM
Try 90mins break on a nightshift and going back to a checkout knowing you’ve nothing much to do.  :'(
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Expressdude2016 on 12-06-19, 10:36AM

Not sure what you complaint is if you don’t get to take a full 90 minutes of break on shift you get paid for it all you do is write it on safe and legal book as per policy. Why do you think the pages are in safe and legal book .


Hey,

I currently work in a busy store in the main city centre.

I’ve recently been told we need to write our breaks in the blue book to get paid. I’ve spoken to other shift leaders round this area & also asked them if they’ve been getting paid breaks some say it’s so inconsistent & some have never been paid breaks.

I’m mostly without another management team member in the evenings & some mornings. So even if I leave to sit down for a break, I will still need to answer double bells. I roughly take 30 minutes break if I’m lucky. Considering we do 9 hours a day and get paid 7.5 is shocking.

Customer team member does 9 hours shift - gets 60 mins unpaid break = £8.42 x 8 =£67.34
Shift leader does 9 hour shift - gets 90 minutes unpaid break = £10.29 x 7.5 = £77.17

So basically the customer team member can leave the building for one hour & do as they please.
Me on the other hand and other shift leaders have to answer bells on break and only able to take 30 minutes if we’re lucky.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Youngmod93 on 12-06-19, 10:40AM
I new I would get the comment of don’t like it step down.
Well I’m quite happy being a shift leader but the fact we’re working an hour free is expected of us. That’s over £205 every 4 weeks we should be entitled to. Tescos as company expects me to take 90mins break on every shift. It’s impossible to take the full 90 minutes.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Expressdude2016 on 12-06-19, 11:09AM
No one commented if you don’t  like it step down. You don’t seem to understand you get paid for you break if you can’t take it fully uninterrupted so why are you still whining about it.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Trickster on 12-06-19, 12:18PM
The bottom line is

If there is no-one trained o shift leader standard to run the shift so you can take your 1 1/2 hour break then you are entitled to be paid your break as you are on call.

When the briefing came out nearly 2 years ago allegedly the SM is supposed to do the Management rota  a minimum of 4 weeks in advance, (I hear you all laugh) and indicate within that rota where they believe that there is no-one trained to the required standard to cover the store to allow you to take your 1 1/2 hour break away from the building if you so wished and in doing so you should be paid.

After the rota has been completed [you]they[/you] were supposed to record in the S & L book what breaks they have agreed to pay for the said period.Unless that process has been changed recently, it is the Store Manager who makes the entry. Shift leaders only make an entry if they have had authorisation from the Store Manager or Buddy Manager if circumstances have changed from the minimum of 4 weeks rota we have received.

If for whatever reason you are not able to take an un-interupted break due to minimum staffing for health, safety and security reasons. i.e. They have not put sufficient customer assistants in, ,( this never happens, i hear you say) or someone rings in sick or there is no  person trained to the required standard you are to contact your SM or Buddy Manage in their absence and ask if they are going to authorise the break to be paid and record in the S & L book if this is the case.

In ALL  CASES irrespective if you are getting paid this process DOES NOT over ride the minimum of 20 minutes break, within 6 hours of your shift  without disturbance you are allowed as per the working time regulations.

The briefing did stipulate that it is your Store managers responsibility to ensure ALL rotas Staff and Management are 4 weeks in advance and it is their responsibility to endeavour to ensure that there are resources available as Paid breaks should NOT be the norm it should be on rare occasions.

On Our Tesco it states Your Manager will inform you when your break should be taken  for the needs of the business and the individual. (This is in general for all staff not just Shift leaders in Express)

My own opinion from experience, are Store Managers capeable of following this process?........ in a majority of cases that I have seen the answer is NO. Hence why the briefing was never made fully available to shift leaders and is not made totally clear what was supposed to have been briefed.

To re-iterate....if there is no-one trained to the required standard to deal with health safety and security issues within the store allowing you to leave the building then you should be paid your break........If your Store manager refuses to pay your break then just ask who you are to hand the Store over to whilst you take your break and leave the building for the breaks entirety, if he says nobody then you are to be paid if not document everything and raise a grievance.

Lets be honest In all honesty, Express is a shambles......The senior team have mostly come from large format and those that have not have been brainwashed into the who cares about the shift leader and their workload mode,  the resources made available half the time are a disgrace specially unsociable times, one on one on back shifts and weekends is becoming the norm. The only time resources are made available and suddenly most of the staff are available is if there is a visit from the SM or the area managers seniors are visiting and all work comes to a standstill, facing up , cleaning takes label walks take  presidence over filling and serving the customer as for thoughts of shift leaders breaks well in my experience they are the lowest priority of all and yet it is the law yes the law of the land that everyone gets some sort of un-interupted break.

Me I have learnt to play the game, however will not work through my break or be on call without being paid!!!!
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: NightAndDay on 12-06-19, 12:39PM
To all the idiots saying you get paid for not taking your break so stop whining and that there's a reason it's in the safe and legal log book. Employment law (working time regulations) (Tescos safe and legal book is an auditing tool to show compliance with the law) states that all employees must get x amount of break per shift. Tesco is breaking the law in that regard, but nobody will challenge them.

As for comments saying there are lots of people who will sacrifice their break for an extra tenner per shift if you don't like it step down, they wouldn't be saying that if they were doing a shift leaders role, they are hilariously underpaid for what they do, I was a shift leader and quit for a job that pays twice as much and I can take my break when I want, it's very easy to find a job better than shift leader.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Teddybonkers on 12-06-19, 01:15PM
You must have known beforehand that as a Shift Leader you're extremely unlikely to get full uninterrupted breaks. Doesn't make it right, but that's the harsh reality of working in Express. So why whinge about it now :question:
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Trickster on 12-06-19, 01:38PM
I take on board what you are saying however the policy changed September 2017 . and what I stated is absoloute fact.

Just because it was accepted prior to this does not mean it should be allowed to continue.

policies are policies , but more importantly Law is law

if you are not able to leave your place of work you are classed as being on call, so therefore if you are on call you should be paid accordingly, that is the law of the land

its not about whining its about what is right and legal

Not even Tesco or any Sm is above the law.....despite what they may think sometimes.

I assume you are either an SM or get paid for your breaks
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Preacherpauly on 12-06-19, 02:14PM
Shift leaders cant take full breaks, bank holidays moved to sat and sunday for night workers so they dont have to paynout more, time and a half cut, double time taken away on sundays and now the bonus gone. And we all accept it. No wonder they continue to mug us off.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Nomad on 12-06-19, 02:18PM
........
policies are policies , but more importantly Law is law
..........

I agree wholeheartedly with that sentiment.  Right is right/wrong is wrong, nothing annoys me more than those who think otherwise.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Teddybonkers on 12-06-19, 02:34PM
Policies are policies, law is law - do me a favour!  Who do you think is gonna investigate you're grievance - a SM, AM, HR? Unfortunately, its YOU who will be regarded as the problem, and YOU who will face the consequences in whatever form they may take. That's why nobody complains and management continue to get away with it. If management were serious about this, a budget would be set aside in each store and it would be easy to claim. In reality you either step down or suck it up, cos you ain't gonna win this one.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Preacherpauly on 12-06-19, 02:38PM
Shift leaders cant take full breaks, bank holidays moved to sat and sunday for night workers so they dont have to paynout more, time and a half cut, double time taken away on sundays and now the bonus gone. And we all accept it. No wonder they continue to mug us off.

I should say our union accepts it and mugs us off
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: penguin on 12-06-19, 03:24PM
It is all well and good saying what the law or policy is, but how many S.M bully shift leaders into accepting missed, intrupted breaks without payment. About a year ago express shift leaders in our area had a big meeting with the Area Manager and someone from head office to look into why so many shift leaders leave the job after a few months, breaks were one of the main issues that came up, response from Area Manager was if you cannot take your full break for any reason was its a local issue as most stores do not have this problem. Yes we all know that is a load of rubbish but shows what the people in charge think.

Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Overworked1 on 12-06-19, 03:26PM
Policies are policies, law is law - do me a favour!  Who do you think is gonna investigate you're grievance - a SM, AM, HR? Unfortunately, its YOU who will be regarded as the problem, and YOU who will face the consequences in whatever form they may take. That's why nobody complains and management continue to get away with it. If management were serious about this, a budget would be set aside in each store and it would be easy to claim. In reality you either step down or suck it up, cos you ain't gonna win this one.

Teddybonkers  :thumbup:

Our managers think grievances against them are the Stars and Stripes of Tesco. The more they have the better.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: penguin on 12-06-19, 03:38PM
Sounds like you and I could work in the same shop Overworked, managers in our place think its all a bit of a laugh when a grevaince goes in against them. Think of all the ones that have gone in over the last few years only on one occasion was the CA complaint found to be valid and upheld, and then all the manager in question got was next steps, a normal member of staff would have been out the door over what went on.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Overworked1 on 12-06-19, 04:51PM
Penguin.  :thumbup:

This said I like to give them the Grievance tablet now and then if no improvement it’ll at least put a smile on there face (the customers don’t know it is for all the wrong reasons ;)). After all, they all like a sit down and something to talk about at the managers table/smoke shed. Some tablets will do while the mrs clearly isn’t pumping them hard enough.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Nomad on 12-06-19, 05:29PM
Policies are policies, law is law - do me a favour!  Who do you think is gonna investigate you're grievance - a SM, AM, HR? Unfortunately, its YOU who will be regarded as the problem, and YOU who will face the consequences in whatever form they may take. That's why nobody complains and management continue to get away with it. If management were serious about this, a budget would be set aside in each store and it would be easy to claim. In reality you either step down or suck it up, cos you ain't gonna win this one.

You have to have the bottle to do yourself the favour, as I did by taking them to the small claims court twice while in their employ and getting the monies owed to me on both occasions, and continuing in their employ after both cases.

Collect your evidence then if they don't pay then make your claim ( [you]MCOL[/you] (https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome)  ), if your evidence is good you'll get your money.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: overworkedexpresslad on 12-06-19, 08:05PM
well all I can say is...… if we cant take the breaks in my store we get paid what we don't have. express is different to other formats... we are left to run the show not like in extras where you CAN take your breaks..  dude if your getting chance to have your breaks then make sure your being paid and write it in the log book. good luck :) :)
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: an_anon on 12-06-19, 09:18PM
I've got no sympathy for people that just roll over and let Tesco take the p**s. If there are lawful procedures and if it is your right then do it by the book and don't get shafted.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Welshie on 12-06-19, 11:41PM
I do have sympathy for the Express shift  leaders , I work pfs nights 10pm-7am , someone from store is meant to cover my breaks and every night it is a fight . I'm fed up complaining and fed up having to phone up store and practically beg for something I'm entitled to.
It shouldn't be that much of a fight and you shouldn't be made to feel that you're a "problem employee" when it's something you have the right to .
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: NightAndDay on 12-06-19, 11:55PM
Policies are policies, law is law - do me a favour!  Who do you think is gonna investigate you're grievance - a SM, AM, HR? Unfortunately, its YOU who will be regarded as the problem, and YOU who will face the consequences in whatever form they may take. That's why nobody complains and management continue to get away with it. If management were serious about this, a budget would be set aside in each store and it would be easy to claim. In reality you either step down or suck it up, cos you ain't gonna win this one.

You have to have the bottle to do yourself the favour, as I did by taking them to the small claims court twice while in their employ and getting the monies owed to me on both occasions, and continuing in their employ after both cases.

Collect your evidence then if they don't pay then make your claim ( [you]MCOL[/you] (https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome)  ), if your evidence is good you'll get your money.

Surely if you win against Tesco in small claims an investigation occurs at the people manager/store manager level in why a court proceeding occurred in the first place?
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Trickster on 13-06-19, 06:03AM
Teddybonkers

I 100% agree with what you are saying about grievances. i have seen so many SMs and people Managers lie for the glory badge at the end which they seem to wear with pride once a grievance process has been taken against them.However In the laws eyes you have to give them a chance to correct their ways, it is frowned upon by the judge if you do not give them an opportunity to put right before a hearing Where pay is concerned and monies owed for non payment you cannot lose trust me I know.

You can take them to a tribunal free of charge but you have to have gone through the process and watch them all lie their way through then make the application via acas. This part can be great fun seeing how many can suck up each others a%*e

As has previously stated they settle out of court every time because they do not want the publiciity of an open hearing. If you have any doubts in what I am saying go into the government website for tribunal settlements and put in Tesco and you will find quite a few come up everyone concerning unpaid money have had it withdrawn by the applicant this means that the company has settled out of court......As I say trust me I know someone who has followed this through and apparently won

NOBODY should accept bullying nor non payment of pay .....gather the evidence, apply to acas for a tribunal hearing non payment of pay.... the law protects you when it comes to pay. Normally you cannot go to a tribunal under 2 years service, however when it comes to pay shortages anyone with any length of service can take their employer to a tribunal......thats how serious being underpaid is taken by the government and tribunals.

Remember its free.....and do not be frightened off by their solicitors letters....trust me they will settle out of court if you can prove you were short changed in your pay or in this case not paid for breaks
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: lucgeo on 13-06-19, 08:22AM
If you log it in the safe & legal, then they don't pay you, you just produce the book as they can't "misplace" the evidence, like they do with everything else  ??? How long do they have to store the book for  :question:
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Nomad on 13-06-19, 09:40AM
Policies are policies, law is law - do me a favour!  Who do you think is gonna investigate you're grievance - a SM, AM, HR? Unfortunately, its YOU who will be regarded as the problem, and YOU who will face the consequences in whatever form they may take. That's why nobody complains and management continue to get away with it. If management were serious about this, a budget would be set aside in each store and it would be easy to claim. In reality you either step down or suck it up, cos you ain't gonna win this one.

You have to have the bottle to do yourself the favour, as I did by taking them to the small claims court twice while in their employ and getting the monies owed to me on both occasions, and continuing in their employ after both cases.

Collect your evidence then if they don't pay then make your claim ( [you]MCOL[/you] (https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome)  ), if your evidence is good you'll get your money.

Surely if you win against Tesco in small claims an investigation occurs at the people manager/store manager level in why a court proceeding occurred in the first place?

It may have but not anything I was made aware of.  Perhaps an investigation took place and MM were found to be in the wrong and that is why I had no problems following the results of the claims because it should never have got that far.

PS: In my cases a DC not a store.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Rad on 16-06-19, 12:40PM
Policies are policies, law is law - do me a favour!  Who do you think is gonna investigate you're grievance - a SM, AM, HR? Unfortunately, its YOU who will be regarded as the problem, and YOU who will face the consequences in whatever form they may take. That's why nobody complains and management continue to get away with it. If management were serious about this, a budget would be set aside in each store and it would be easy to claim. In reality you either step down or suck it up, cos you ain't gonna win this one.

This is a bit different though.  In Express this is policy.  I cant see any AM or SD backing up a Store Manager who is refusing to pay their colleagues correctly.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Teddybonkers on 16-06-19, 02:07PM
Really?  How many times have staff been underpaid overtime, holiday pay and even basic pay? Why do SM continually chance their arm screwing over staff, if it might damage their career prospects? After all its not their money is it. No mate, they're doing what's expected of them and what they think they can get away with.   
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Rad on 16-06-19, 06:06PM
As I said this is different.  If a colleague raises a grievance or even tries to 'resolve the matter informally' via the PM it will be resolved rapid.   This is a huge Tesco policy change that must be adhered to. 

It's the cash admins responsibility to input the paid breaks that are recorded in the safe and legal record. 

There isnt some huge conspiracy between cash admins, store managers, area managers and directors not to pay colleague for their breaks.  If anything the store manager will get battered as over a year ago they were told to train other colleagues up to 'break level' step ups.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: expressor on 16-06-19, 06:44PM
The real issue is a familiar one in Tesco. The SM will be under huge pressure to deliver the payroll budget whilst also having fantastic 'royal visits' etc. Therefore the pressure gets pushed down, and shift leaders end up not being paid correctly. How many put up with this but don't speak out? If they complain to the PM it will be sorted, but the SM has successfully kicked the can down the road, probably into the next pay period.

I'm not defending the indefensible, but it's what will happen if people are threatened with their jobs - whether it's a director and an accounting scandal or a lowly express SM and a shift leader's break entitlement.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Rad on 16-06-19, 06:53PM
I get all that.  But the point remains that SMs should have trained colleagues to break cover level over a year ago.   The money for paid breaks was never in the payroll budget beyond the first quarter of it going live. 

If they can't afford to pay it within their budget the answer is staring them in the face.  Complete that next step from December 2017.

I completely agree that the attitude from above in Express is all wrong from some SDs and AMs - the pressure stores have been under to complete the full store clean and reset on a whim was incredible.  All not on the corporate plan. 
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: expressor on 16-06-19, 07:13PM
Rad :thumbup:

Totally agree.

However we still have stores running 1on1, stores having to close when a wagon turns up. If there's not enough people in when needed, it doesn't matter if everyone is trained to cover SL breaks - they still won't happen.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Overworked1 on 16-06-19, 09:17PM
Tesco is dead on its arse and to think anything different you’d have to be sniffing glue. When’s there any good news it’s constant store closures and reduced openings, redundancy’s and people screwing money...
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: almostlost on 17-08-19, 08:51PM
Regarding CA's and shift leader break cover.  I've recently done the shift leader academy, but I've been told this week, that covering the first hour of a shift leaders break is unpaid ??  So all the hour breaks I've covered have been for free ??? Am I expected to carry on covering breaks, up to 5 hours a week, be responsible for the store, and not get any kind of extra pay for it ?
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Shafted on 17-08-19, 09:14PM
That’s ridiculous and I should think illegal to expect people to work for nothing 🤬
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Teddybonkers on 17-08-19, 10:19PM
Regarding CA's and shift leader break cover.  I've recently done the shift leader academy, but I've been told this week, that covering the first hour of a shift leaders break is unpaid ??  So all the hour breaks I've covered have been for free ??? Am I expected to carry on covering breaks, up to 5 hours a week, be responsible for the store, and not get any kind of extra pay for it ?

YES :'(
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: lucgeo on 18-08-19, 06:51AM
I'm taking it you mean the extra skills payment for the hour  8-) 8-)
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Redshoes on 18-08-19, 09:30AM
Checkouts don't get extra for covering team support break or for covering CSD breaks. Not sure the wages system we have at the moment can cope with it but step up pay is on the way. We are on the tablet system and have been for a long time now, a couple of years or more. Once the step up pay goes live in the tablet it's just a matter of moving people into the step up role.
Superstores often run with one manager in. They just go for breaks. If called to something they attend but mostly get to finish breaks.  Back door has cover so deliveries continue. Checkouts, fresh, stock control have cover so things just continue.
I don't know the express set up or the full job description but is it breaks where you want to leave the store or just breaks? Is it just lack of bodies? Is it lack of training for other colleagues?  Sounds more like just lack of bodies to me but as there are no express stores in my area I don't know. Duty manager can't leave the building for us as only manager in and if called to PFS they inform the desk so they know where they are.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Rad on 19-08-19, 09:23AM
Regarding CA's and shift leader break cover.  I've recently done the shift leader academy, but I've been told this week, that covering the first hour of a shift leaders break is unpaid ??  So all the hour breaks I've covered have been for free ??? Am I expected to carry on covering breaks, up to 5 hours a week, be responsible for the store, and not get any kind of extra pay for it ?
You should receive it for covering hour breaks.  However I'm sure most reasonable managers would pay it for covering half hours. 
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: lucgeo on 19-08-19, 09:58AM
If a CA/TS is covering a higher rate skilled position, then there is a timescale as to how long they have worked the position, as to whether they get paid the higher skill rate pay. I don't recall the length of time, I thought it was 30 mins, but I could be wrong? It should be on the Tesco website for skills payment, which unfortunately, I no longer have access to.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Redshoes on 19-08-19, 10:05AM
They also have to be able to cover the whole job and not just part of it. For example, with team support at the checkouts, a step up will cover running the back of the tills but this is not the full job. For the skill pay they also have to do change run, exceptions, cover overtime, do flexi sheets, deliver dept training etc. It's not a skill payment to follow break sheet already filled out and fetch a box of eggs when needed.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: lucgeo on 19-08-19, 10:07AM
"Checkouts don't get extra for covering team support break or for covering CSD breaks."

Yes they do, if it is for the recognised timescale  ???
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: checkoutmonkey on 19-08-19, 10:18AM
They also have to be able to cover the whole job and not just part of it. For example, with team support at the checkouts, a step up will cover running the back of the tills but this is not the full job. For the skill pay they also have to do change run, exceptions, cover overtime, do flexi sheets, deliver dept training etc. It's not a skill payment to follow break sheet already filled out and fetch a box of eggs when needed.

Absolutely. I’ve actually had cashiers refuse to cover my break unless they get the payment for it and it makes me so angry. Like there’s more to my job than just answering checkout calls
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: lucgeo on 19-08-19, 10:21AM
"For the skill pay they also have to do change run, exceptions, cover overtime, do flexi sheets, deliver dept training etc."

No they don't, unless their capable of doing all that in the recognised timescale for a skill payment cover, in which case they're definitely in the wrong job  :-X

Their grade isn't high enough to do exceptions, flexi sheets, deliver dept training, or cover overtime  ???
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: checkoutmonkey on 19-08-19, 12:08PM
Are you saying that a GA should be paid full whack just for covering the line for an hour? Or is there a step up pay that falls somewhere in the middle? Cos that’s probably the best solution
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: lucgeo on 19-08-19, 12:25PM
Yes...they get the hourly grade payment for the amount of time they are covering, for 1 hour or more. It was all covered in the recent policies for upgrade of pay bands. This was mainly brought about when they increased some departmental pay bands. Also, due to CSD and tobacco becoming combined as both doing the same job, but different department codes and pay grade, which, understandably,  caused a great deal of resentment amongst those colleagues.

If you were constantly asked to cover a management role, would you expect to be paid the same rate?? Would you accept that, because you hadn't been asked to cover duty, that your cover wasn't worthy of the same pay rate??

Also, it's concerning that you appear to be a checkout team support, yet seem either unaware of this policy, or aren't prepared to authorise the correct payment with the wage clerk, as you don't agree with the policy?? Treading shaky ground there methinks :-X
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: checkoutmonkey on 19-08-19, 03:18PM
I am aware of the skills payment policy, but the wording of is rather vague. It’s not specified what specifically justifies the payment. A Team Support does way more than just run the line, which is all we’d ever ask GAs to do when on break. Of course if that GA is also doing the change runs and training and what not then I’d absolutely ensure they get the extra payment and indeed there have been times where I’ve fought my manager because I believe it has been deserved when he has not.

 but saying they are entitled to the full rate for doing just a fraction of my workload for an hour and having 0 accountability doesn’t seem correct, and no store that I’ve worked in since the skill payment was introduced (there’s been a few) has ever paid the skills payment to a GA unless they are actually covering the full role
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: forrestgimp on 19-08-19, 03:20PM
They also have to be able to cover the whole job and not just part of it. For example, with team support at the checkouts, a step up will cover running the back of the tills but this is not the full job. For the skill pay they also have to do change run, exceptions, cover overtime, do flexi sheets, deliver dept training etc. It's not a skill payment to follow break sheet already filled out and fetch a box of eggs when needed.

Absolutely. I’ve actually had cashiers refuse to cover my break unless they get the payment for it and it makes me so angry. Like there’s more to my job than just answering checkout calls

Which begs the question why should they do it when they are not being paid for it?
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: checkoutmonkey on 19-08-19, 03:32PM
I should add, whenever I go on an hour break and have to leave a GA running, I always make DM aware that IDQ is now their accountability whether they want to come down or not. I’d never expect the GA to take on any more responsibility other than to call the DM if it gets busy. If I’m asking them to do any more than that then of course they should be paid the higher rate
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: forrestgimp on 19-08-19, 03:35PM
Its not about what you are asking them to do is it, You are a runner you want lunch you want someone to cover your job and they get paid to do so.

Why does it matter to you that they dont get it? Does it impact your self worth that they are getting a quid or 2 more for that hour.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: checkoutmonkey on 19-08-19, 03:43PM
I’m sorry, I think my last few posts haven’t come across the way I intended. I absolutely believe personally that there should be some kind of additional payment for covering a break.

All I’m trying to say is, under the current policy, I don’t believe that doing so technically qualifies for a skills payment according to Tesco because they are not covering the whole role, just one aspect of it. It’s a grey area for sure, something that I’m sure they purposefully made ambiguous to get away with not paying people extra. All I can say is that’s how the policy reads to me personally, and also to every checkout manager I’ve ever had
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: lucgeo on 19-08-19, 03:57PM
I am aware of the skills payment policy, but the wording of is rather vague. It’s not specified what specifically justifies the payment. A Team Support does way more than just run the line, which is all we’d ever ask GAs to do when on break. Of course if that GA is also doing the change runs and training and what not then I’d absolutely ensure they get the extra payment and indeed there have been times where I’ve fought my manager because I believe it has been deserved when he has not.

 but saying they are entitled to the full rate for doing just a fraction of my workload for an hour and having 0 accountability doesn’t seem correct, and no store that I’ve worked in since the skill payment was introduced (there’s been a few) has ever paid the skills payment to a GA unless they are actually covering the full role

I think it does specifically state the minimum time that a lower grade covers on a higher grade dept, I don't find that vague? An hour for your break is only a fraction of your workday, so therefore a fraction of your workload for that hour. If the GA is covering for longer, then they would do the work allocated for that part of the day...GA's can, and do, do the change run, but as for training, rota's etc...policy dictates they are not allowed, or signed off to do these tasks, so it's not really up to you to be asking or expecting them to do them. I for one would grievance any GA having access to my contact details for overtime request, my contract, or expecting me to sign off training done by a GA.

You shouldn't need to be in conflict with your manager regarding payment...it comes down to time specifics, not whether either of you decide to them being deserving enough :-X
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: checkoutmonkey on 19-08-19, 04:06PM
Like I said, my last few messaged had some very poor word choice.

It’s not that we disagreed over whether the payment was deserved, but whether it was qualified for. It seems that in your eyes it’s extremely clear cut that covering an hours break = fulfilling the job role for an hour and thus warranting the skills payment. Honestly if that’s the case in your store then it sounds amazing and I want a transfer  :D but I think we all realise things don’t always turn out that way.

This is a bit of a hypothetical, but say a GA covers an hours break on CSD, but does not have Supervisor access or a logon to F11, so essentially is only serving Lottery and Tobacco for an hour. Do they qualify for the skills payment then? Because they are covering a higher grade role after all, even though they are essentially just serving on a checkout.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: NightAndDay on 19-08-19, 04:44PM
I believe I read somewhere a while ago that to be able to "step up" to a role to begin with you'd need to be able to do 80% of the required responsibilities of the role you're covering.

A more realistic example is a ca stepping up to shift leader in Express, they can do enough to be functional in the role but not to carry out things like return to works, lets talks etc, so they don't get the full wage.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: lucgeo on 19-08-19, 05:15PM
Like I said, my last few messaged had some very poor word choice.

It’s not that we disagreed over whether the payment was deserved, but whether it was qualified for. It seems that in your eyes it’s extremely clear cut that covering an hours break = fulfilling the job role for an hour and thus warranting the skills payment. Honestly if that’s the case in your store then it sounds amazing and I want a transfer  :D but I think we all realise things don’t always turn out that way.

This is a bit of a hypothetical, but say a GA covers an hours break on CSD, but does not have Supervisor access or a logon to F11, so essentially is only serving Lottery and Tobacco for an hour. Do they qualify for the skills payment then? Because they are covering a higher grade role after all, even though they are essentially just serving on a checkout.

Why would you put someone on a dept without proper training, and no access to relevant hardware to serve the customers ? It would just put that colleague under undue pressure and cause a very long queue, especially if they had been left on there on their own, ( which should not be the case ) without support! What does that acheive?

I no longer have a store, I was made redundant, but I was a bloody good rep, and your idea of what a GA should do to warrant the higher payment, I wouldn't need to hunt for loopholes in any disciplinary...A GA trained and signed your training card off??...Case dismissed..A GA authorised your holidays and the manager cancelled them after you'd booked??...holidays granted...A GA had access to your personal details to contact you for overtime??..grievance against manager etc...etc...

Is it your opinion, the higher pay should be tasks specific and not time specific, and to just cover your break for an hour does not warrant the payment, as it does not carry the responsibilities that you receive the higher grade for??
So...hypothetically, during that hour if the GA cocks up big time, which results in an investigation for possible gross misconduct, do you take the responsibility for that, or do you straight away say that you were on your break, not down to you, and just throw that GA under the bus ???
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: lucgeo on 19-08-19, 06:09PM
Oh and incidentally, every GA was paid the higher skills payment, for covering a higher grade role, for the time specified, at my old store, no argument  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Fair play on 19-08-19, 06:23PM
I’m sorry, I think my last few posts haven’t come across the way I intended. I absolutely believe personally that there should be some kind of additional payment for covering a break.

All I’m trying to say is, under the current policy, I don’t believe that doing so technically qualifies for a skills payment according to Tesco because they are not covering the whole role, just one aspect of it. It’s a grey area for sure, something that I’m sure they purposefully made ambiguous to get away with not paying people extra. All I can say is that’s how the policy reads to me personally, and also to every checkout manager I’ve ever had

As a rep I can assure you they do get the skills payment for covering your break if it’s an hour or more . I know because I had to fight this policy for several staff and had to get confirmation from Tesco support that this was the case . Everyone in our store now gets it
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: checkoutmonkey on 19-08-19, 06:30PM
My opinion falls somewhere in the middle. First of all I should clarify that I’d never expect or condone a GA to do ANY of the things you mentioned ie booking holidays etc. I guess yeah in a way I think the skills payment should be more task specific, ie what about those roles actually warrants the skills payment in the first place but I accept that that would make the whole system very complicated.

My personal thought is that there should be a break cover payment paid in these instances...maybe set at 90% of the hourly rate of the role they’re covering. Of course when doing break cover the GAs do accept some extra responsibility and they should be compensated for that, but the fact remains that as you said, the fact that they are not signed off to perform the job role fully means that paying them the full rate doesn’t totally make sense to me, from a totally pragmatic  point of view.

Also I’d never throw a GA under the bus. Like I said, I’d always inform the Duty Manager that I need a break, and give them the option to come down (or send another manager down) to cover me themselves. And if a GA doesn’t feel comfortable doing the role I’d never try to make them do it.

And Fair Play, thanks for the clarification. Like I said, the policy is clearly ambiguous enough that you’re having to fight for this so much.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Welshie on 19-08-19, 06:41PM
So you shouldn't be getting the higher rate when you're just running the tills then ?? You should only be getting it when you're training staff or booking hols etc , let's be honest at least 50% of you're day is probably spent just running the tills , it's a very big and very important part of your job .
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: lucgeo on 19-08-19, 06:41PM
Thanks Fair play for confirming the timescale of one hour, as I was unsure.

@checkoutmonkey

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this subject, as for me, the policy has always been crystal, an hour or over, they get paid, I'm still struggling to find where the ambiguity lies, or how anyone can interpret it differently.

Anyway, as Fair play has confirmed all their store now get the payment, perhaps you can get a transfer to this amazing shangri la  ;)
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: checkoutmonkey on 19-08-19, 07:05PM
Very little of my day is spent “just running tills”

The majority of my day is spent running tills whilst also trying to get a ton of other stuff done - complete training, filling and inputting overtime, doing exceptions, running around the shop floor looking for staff, getting called into cash office to search for people’s valuables, assisting with rumble, going to team 5 and getting a reprimand for not passing etc etc.

Agree to disagree I agree. I’m really not trying to say that I’m not with you that people should be paid for stepping up, as I’ve said on a multitude of occasions, just that as others on this thread have also said, it appears to me that running the line for an hour does not count as performing that job role. Of course some others have confirmed that it does count which I accept, although part of me personally also does kinda think that it doesn’t really come close to being the same.

Hey ho, the fact is we are all Tesco staff, and they’ll find a way to screw us all in the end one way or another, no point arguing over stuff like this ahaha
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Penny on 20-08-19, 03:58PM
Could someone tell me whereabouts in safe and legal book you record not getting break?
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: taliahad on 20-08-19, 04:37PM
Well Penny, I'd put it in the back, where you write down all your customer non payments and drive offs etc.  It's not an issue for us in our PFS though, if we don't get our breaks, we just close the place. 
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: Penny on 20-08-19, 05:36PM
Thanks Taliahad 👍
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: optout on 20-08-19, 06:47PM
@CheckoutMonkey
now that it has been clarified that there 'are' stores out there where the payment is made, are 'you' going to ensure that your staff are given the same payments?
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: checkoutmonkey on 20-08-19, 09:00PM
In my current store there has yet to be a case where this would be applicable, as there has always been either another team support in or a manager who is able to cover the breaks. However if the situation arises I will make sure it is recorded properly and the correct payment is made.

Thanks for the clarification guys. It’s good to hear that for once the policy is better than I expected.
Title: Re: Shift Leader - Breaks & No security guards in morning.
Post by: optout on 20-08-19, 09:46PM
 :thumbup: can't ask for more than that.