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Very Little Helps => Stores => Topic started by: T3chie88 on 03-11-18, 07:33PM

Title: Investigation Meeting - not sure where to turn
Post by: T3chie88 on 03-11-18, 07:33PM
Hi all, been a long time lurker on here and have joined and donated to be able to post as I'm not sure where to turn with regards to a friend of mine being pulled in for an investigation.

I'll try and detail as much as possible...

So my friend has been with the company around 6 months and a few weeks ago was pulled up on allegedly smoking in a van due to a strong smell being apparent in the cab, my friend who is a smoker absolutely denies doing this and of course I believe them but it appears that management do not and in my opinion are now out to get them.

Another colleague has apparently gone into their cab and smelt smoke/tobacco. But here's where it gets interesting. The actual van was taken around to the compound to be jet washed and the actual jet washers have been known to smoke so there's a possibility as the cleaners need to move the van to get it cleaned. My friend also stopped to get directions from a passer by when they got lost on their run (they were actually only a few doors away but it was dark) and the passer by was actually smoking so the smell could have passed in to the cab as they leant in.

My friend has had a couple of meetings where each time new information has apparently come to light. The first meeting was done without a rep being present (they was told they could ahead with or without one regardless) and there was a single person who had reported it. Second meeting, a rep was present, however it had gone from one person to two people. Third meeting, was the actual hearing and it's now gone to ash being found in the cab, at this point the meeting had been adjourned. My friend is in such a bad way that it is making them physically sick and causing a lot of stress, I'm tempted to tell them to go to their GP to be signed off work for stress it's that bad.

So my friend doesn't actually take any kind of tobacco out with them, all the management have and to go on is 'reasonable doubt', two witnesses (one of which is an options manager...make of that what you will and the other person is well known to be in with the managers) and apparently this new evidence of ash being found (of which it has been asked if there is a photo, which hasn't been produced yet) is reasonable doubt enough for them to act like my friend has commited manslaughter. My friend has also requested black box information so they can confirm where they stopped to ask for directions, this also hasn't been produced. I'm at my wit's end because it appears they are clutching at straws and my friend is being targeted because they are a smoker.

Sorry for the long rant, I'm not sure if I've missed anything, any help or advice would be great thanks
Title: Re: Investigation Meeting - not sure where to turn
Post by: Welshie on 03-11-18, 09:28PM
Any smoker who  is driving would open their window even in a private car , for a lingering smell of smoke they would need to have smoked  many cigarettes or have been sitting in the yard smoking just before the locked up the van .
Title: Re: Investigation Meeting - not sure where to turn
Post by: gomezz on 03-11-18, 11:07PM
I can smell if a smoker has used the lift after being outside for a smoke so I would have to disagree.  Which in fact goes in this person's favour in this case as smokers can leave a rank smell even if they have not been actually smoking in the confined space concerned.


Title: Re: Investigation Meeting - not sure where to turn
Post by: valleyboy on 04-11-18, 08:31AM
Welshie/Gomez

Don't think the poster is seeking advice on how long tobacco smoke can be detected. I may be wrong. I think the poster is asking if a fair investigation hass been carried out?
Title: Re: Investigation Meeting - not sure where to turn
Post by: lucgeo on 04-11-18, 09:04AM
Deny! Deny! Deny!!

Ask for a copy of the notes of the initial meeting. Was the statement of no rep being present written in the notes. Your rep should be querying this statement along with the inconsistencies, first one person, then two, now ash??

They are basing their assumptions on the fact the driver smokes, with no visual/ photo evidence of the alleged smoking or ash?? But on the say so of a colleagues sense of smell ???

They would be hard put to go on the basis of probability, as it could be interpreted that they are saying a smoker is in all probability guilty of misconduct, merely because they are a smoker... :-X :-X
Title: Re: Investigation Meeting - not sure where to turn
Post by: hesketh on 04-11-18, 10:18AM
A vehement denial against two opinions that someone has smoked in the van. No evidence whatsoever and several alternative explanations..... Oh get real!

Even without the sloppy investigation procedures, any steps they take would be blasted on appeal.

Deny the allegation and let them hang themselves >:(
Title: Re: Investigation Meeting - not sure where to turn
Post by: gomezz on 04-11-18, 10:31AM
I once knew that the driver before me had been smoking in the van because not only was the smell very strong but he had as good as admitted his guilt by leaving both cab doors wide open in the hope it would air before anyone would notice.

Call me hypersensitive but I can even smell when someone starts using a vape the other side of the pub.
Title: Re: Investigation Meeting - not sure where to turn
Post by: lucgeo on 04-11-18, 12:13PM
Having re read.....if I have got this right, the cleaners have driven the van to and from the jet wash?? If this is the case, then your friend was not the last one in the cab ???

I had assumed that it was a straightforward case of one driver out, one in ??? If not, then how can he be held responsible for any sort of alleged misconduct made after he has vacated the vehicle and before the accuser enters the cab  ???
Title: Re: Investigation Meeting - not sure where to turn
Post by: T3chie88 on 04-11-18, 12:48PM
Having re read.....if I have got this right, the cleaners have driven the van to and from the jet wash?? If this is the case, then your friend was not the last one in the cab ???

I had assumed that it was a straightforward case of one driver out, one in ??? If not, then how can he be held responsible for any sort of alleged misconduct made after he has vacated the vehicle and before the accuser enters the cab  ???

This is one of the points I myself am questioning, the van was driven from the loading bay, to the compound and then removed from the compound by the cleaner for washing. The investigating manager has now gone away to question the cleaning company (which is why it's been adjourned once again, as my friend has brought up scenario for them, which was questioned why they'd 'changed their story', they haven't they just gave a possible explanation as they have got so many thoughts running through their head that they are bound to forget certain details as is human nature) , but of course what is to stop the cleaning company turning round and saying that no they don't smoke, where does that leave said friend? They can't prove either way, my friend is going to approach a different union rep who is more familiar with the specific department in question.

As someone said earlier in the thread, they are assuming my friend has smoked several cigarettes between the yard and compound (which is at best 2 minutes) for it to leave a strong smell of cigarettes. My friend did question if the following day did a driver who went in the van smell anything as if it was such a strong smell it would still be present the day after, the answer was 'well we don't know' 😡
Title: Re: Investigation Meeting - not sure where to turn
Post by: lucgeo on 04-11-18, 01:05PM
"Well we don't know" doesn't cut it when your accusing someone of misconduct.

Again I'd say they need to ask for a copy of all notes taken, especially the ones where no rep present.

As for changing their story??.....isn't that what they have done?? One witness....now two....now ash?? Ash after a jet wash and cleaners climbing in and out of the cab?? What kind of ash was it, molten larva  :-X :-X

Tread carefully when changing reps, ask the first rep their opinion on involving the rep who has more specific knowledge of the department for their input, rather than just go to the other rep instead. Most reps exchange views and knowledge anyway, and have probably discussed this case amongst themselves....however you always get one or two, who take umbrage if they feel their repping skills are being questioned?? Also there are some who are manager mouthpieces, and only in it for the gossip and time away from department.
Title: Re: Investigation Meeting - not sure where to turn
Post by: lackofinterest on 04-11-18, 08:17PM
wouldn't worry too much. this investigation is a f***ing farce and as already mentioned would be kicked out on appeal anyway
Title: Re: Investigation Meeting - not sure where to turn
Post by: 1 on 04-11-18, 10:48PM
At Tesco you are guilty unless you can prove otherwise.
Title: Re: Investigation Meeting - not sure where to turn
Post by: lackofinterest on 05-11-18, 04:50PM
the f***ing government shouldnt allow it to be that way. >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Investigation Meeting - not sure where to turn
Post by: Vanilla on 06-11-18, 05:01PM
Suggest/recommend that to stop his happening in the future all dotcom vans be fitted with "cabincams" and smoke detectors.
This resolve this type of jovial time wasting in the future.