verylittlehelps.com

Very Little Helps => All departments => Topic started by: dfl on 04-01-17, 07:55PM

Title: Representation
Post by: dfl on 04-01-17, 07:55PM
Can a rep speak during an investigatory or is this one of those rep must shut up meetings
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: Crazydoglover on 04-01-17, 08:01PM
My rep was told she could not speak at recent disciplinary meeting.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: snowyowl on 04-01-17, 08:49PM
Who was this Representative? Of course a rep can speak at any meeting, as long as they don't answer questions directed at you. They are there to represent you, how can they do that without speaking, sign language? My advice, find a rep who has some idea what they are doing.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: redcar renegade on 04-01-17, 09:14PM
You pay your union fees and by law a rep can speak  in a meeting as snowyowl states how are they suppose to communicate.  If they aren't allowed to do so by a manager then I would appeal any decision on grounds of not been giving a fair hearing.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: Mr Grumpy on 04-01-17, 09:35PM
As a rep, if any MMs mentioned that I wasn't allowed to speak I would immediately adjourn the meeting there and then.

This was  to avoid the person whose meeting was from feeling uncomfortable during the following conversations with said idiot MMs.

This should be challenged immediately and then following any meeting that this has happened, inform both  SM and AO that processes aren't being followed in your store/depot.

Any rep who has at least some experience knows that this the lamest trick that either a very poor/inexperienced manager will use as they wont have don't their homework on policies, and  then either doing as they are told by higher MMs or winging it.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: horatiocain on 05-01-17, 11:14AM
Anyone can speak in a meeting, while they cannot answer for you you can ask them and then parrot their answer.
I've sat in meetings as a colleague and been told I can't speak, point them to the acas website.
It's no different in any meeting where you're entitled to representation.

On a similar note are reps still allowed to be called for less talk meetings, as they replaced the informal discussion meetings where thy were.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: sep1985 on 06-01-17, 10:11PM
Can a rep speak during an investigatory or is this one of those rep must shut up meetings

In accordance with the partnership agreement and the TULRC Act, a representative can speak on behalf of the person they are representing, ask questions, carry out their own investigation and adjourn the meeting at any time. Only a union rep can do this
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: Loki on 06-01-17, 10:19PM
Incorrect.

Any chosen companion has the same right, not just a Shop Steward.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: sep1985 on 06-01-17, 10:34PM
Incorrect.

Any chosen companion has the same right, not just a Shop Steward.

If that was the case why bother paying union fees ? A companion is not a repesentative. Anyway. It's all academic  as USDAW sway to the way of Tesco. Ive been a rep for over 3 years and have just stood down as I'm sick of fighting a losing battle
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: Loki on 06-01-17, 10:35PM
Just as well then if you can't even grasp the basics.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: lackofinterest on 07-01-17, 01:02AM
Incorrect.

Any chosen companion has the same right, not just a Shop Steward.
must admit that's a new one on me loki. thanks, could come in handy in the near future
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: Equalizer87 on 07-01-17, 01:36AM
Loki is correct, you can choose anyone to be your witness/companion /representative and Tesco cannot refuse this. Anything other than this is complete BS by Tesco trying to control things by using staffs lack of information  to do so.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: snowyowl on 07-01-17, 07:36AM
There are two things that don't apply with a none Union Representative,
 1) As a none Union Representative you are not entitled to see any preexisting paperwork pertaining to the case, you can ask and you might get it depending on how stupid the Manager dealing with the case is.
2) If you are being represented by a Union representative there is an insurance aspect, if a Union representative gives you some bad advice and it leads to you losing your job you can take the Union to task, it would be very unlikely that you could do the same with a colleague you used as a witness.
As far as I am aware (other than the above) a witness is entitled to do everything else a Union rep can do.
If you have no confidence in your Union representatives try and find a kindly ex Union rep, in my experience they know far more than most existing reps.
I believe the above to be true but I am sure I'll be put right if it is not, good luck. ;) 
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: Equalizer87 on 07-01-17, 09:56AM
@ Snowy owl.

That is correct, a non Usdaw/Tesco representative can do exactly the same as a Union rep. They can  even speak on your behalf too. They actually can see pre-existing paperwork if it is being used as evidence against the individual in the case. How else could someone represent you without having the same access to the evidence against you?

Do not believe the Tesco BS that only a Usdaw/Tesco staff can be present or represent you. You can have ANYONE you want, same as you do in a court of law.

It does bode well sometimes to bring outside representation as there can be no bias or conflict of interest as a factor.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: Loki on 07-01-17, 10:15AM
1) As a none Union Representative you are not entitled to see any preexisting paperwork pertaining to the case, you can ask and you might get it depending on how stupid the Manager dealing with the case is.

Incorrect.

Let's get one thing absolutely clear here: an individual's chosen companion is their representative! They have the same right as a Shop Steward when representing a colleague, INCLUDING access to relevant paperwork in order to assist the individual when preparing their case WITH them!

One of THE reasons Tesco are ALLOWED to get away with things is because of all the  misinformation floating about!
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: forrestgimp on 07-01-17, 05:46PM
Incorrect.

Any chosen companion has the same right, not just a Shop Steward.
must admit that's a new one on me loki. thanks, could come in handy in the near future

Its wrong. Look at policy it clearly states that although you can have anyone employed in your meeting as moral support the only person allowed to speak on your behalf is a union rep.




Its there in black and white you also agree to it when you sign your contract.



Incorrect.

Let's get one thing absolutely clear here: an individual's chosen companion is their representative! They have the same right as a Shop Steward when representing a colleague, INCLUDING access to relevant paperwork in order to assist the individual when preparing their case WITH them!

One of THE reasons Tesco are ALLOWED to get away with things is because of all the  misinformation floating about!

They have access in so far as the person involved can allow them to read it they have no rights to copies nor can they ask questions or speak at all in meetings they are simply there for moral support nothing else.

Feel free to go read the relevant policies around meetings in fact I would encourage you to do so if you insist on giving out bad advice.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: picktocube on 07-01-17, 06:18PM
Sorry ,but I have just read the policy booklet and I have to agree with Loki.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: lackofinterest on 07-01-17, 06:40PM
so it would seem we have 2 sets of different policies floating about ??? which one is the more up to date?
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: picktocube on 07-01-17, 07:05PM
The one I looked at is on OurTesco .
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: Loki on 07-01-17, 07:25PM
Not only that pickotube, but there seems to be many on here who are completely oblivious to an employee and their CHOSEN companion's statutory right.

So for those who say I am wrong, I suggest you get to grips with the basics and/or trawl through VLH for the lengthy explanations with reference points that I and others have provided that even a child could understand.

Obviously the Company and Usdaw cannot override what is set out in legislation, but so as to alleviate any confusion and to make it even clearer to those too obtuse to grasp the basics, the Partnership Agreement states:

All colleagues have the right to be represented at every stage of the Solving Problems procedures. Our policy also provides for colleagues to be accompanied by a rep at all investigatory meetings if they wish. Representatives must be either a recognised Usdaw Rep and/or a colleague.

Either that, or learn to read because I have not the time or the patience for those that are quick to provide incorrect information.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: Loki on 07-01-17, 07:33PM
Incorrect.

Let's get one thing absolutely clear here: an individual's chosen companion is their representative! They have the same right as a Shop Steward when representing a colleague, INCLUDING access to relevant paperwork in order to assist the individual when preparing their case WITH them!

One of THE reasons Tesco are ALLOWED to get away with things is because of all the  misinformation floating about!

They have access in so far as the person involved can allow them to read it they have no rights to copies nor can they ask questions or speak at all in meetings they are simply there for moral support nothing else.

Feel free to go read the relevant policies around meetings in fact I would encourage you to do so if you insist on giving out bad advice.

Good grief, you really ought to read my replies more carefully as well as taking the time to not only read policies more carefully but also make some attempt at understanding them.

As for my providing "bad advice", well, I'll let others on here reach their own conclusions, as clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.  ;D
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: Duracell on 07-01-17, 11:03PM
Whilst I agree with opinion that contracts, terms or policy can't deny an individual their statutory right ( I tribunal wouldn't be able to support such denial).

As a principal it is accepted and practiced in other areas. I don't accept the principal in any scenario, a statutory right can't be denied.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: Aeroquack on 08-01-17, 12:10PM
Acas . Go to representation at work and look at page 16 .
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: forrestgimp on 08-01-17, 12:55PM
Incorrect.

Let's get one thing absolutely clear here: an individual's chosen companion is their representative! They have the same right as a Shop Steward when representing a colleague, INCLUDING access to relevant paperwork in order to assist the individual when preparing their case WITH them!

One of THE reasons Tesco are ALLOWED to get away with things is because of all the  misinformation floating about!

They have access in so far as the person involved can allow them to read it they have no rights to copies nor can they ask questions or speak at all in meetings they are simply there for moral support nothing else.

Feel free to go read the relevant policies around meetings in fact I would encourage you to do so if you insist on giving out bad advice.

Good grief, you really ought to read my replies more carefully as well as taking the time to not only read policies more carefully but also make some attempt at understanding them.

As for my providing "bad advice", well, I'll let others on here reach their own conclusions, as clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.  ;D


Well the same can be said for you, shouting something as loud as you can does not make it right.

However I have no wish to continue to argue the point suffice to say we disagree.

Oh and if you would like to point me in the direction of anything that agrees with you anywhere that isnt VLH then I am only to willing to read it and eat humble pie but as of yet all you have done is tell us and anyone worth their salt will not just take the word of a random internet person.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: Loki on 08-01-17, 05:27PM
Well, apart from the quote from the Partnership Agreement I provided, perhaps you should also read the ACAS code of practice on discipline and grievance my friend.

You don't wish to argue, when actually there is nothing to argue about regarding something as simplistic as basic employment rights, with particular reference to representation. I've never had a problem with exercising these rights, not as a Shop Steward or as a colleague prior to my becoming a Shop Steward.

Its a real shame that the likes of you make it so easy for some managers to take advantage of those that are not aware of their statutory rights.

"Random Internet Person"? Oh you do have a wonderful way in which to express your frustration.

Fortunately there are some of us on here who have, over the years, ensured that the members of VLH are informed of their statutory rights as well as policy, procedures etc.

Look it up my friend and enjoy your pie.  ;D
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: snowyowl on 08-01-17, 06:30PM
So just to confirm Loki and without any desire to get embroiled in any spats as a colleague representing a colleague I would be allowed access to existing paperwork prior to attending any meeting?  :-\
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: lucgeo on 08-01-17, 06:50PM
Sorry couldn't resist!

GO LOKI........GO LOKI....... ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: Loki on 08-01-17, 07:10PM
So just to confirm Loki and without any desire to get embroiled in any spats as a colleague representing a colleague I would be allowed access to existing paperwork prior to attending any meeting?  :-\

If the person you're representing permits it so as to enable you to prepare their case with them, yes.

Again, you are the colleagues' chosen companion. You are their representative. You have the same rights as I or any other Shop Steward with regards to representing a Tesco employee.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: snowyowl on 09-01-17, 09:52AM
Thank you.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: horatiocain on 09-01-17, 09:51PM
As far as I understand it the only advantage a rep has is their prior knowledge of the full policy documents, but any policy relevant to the meeting can be requested and provided to you anyway.

Too many people believe that the college cannot say anything, including several reps, two in my old store claimed this, the ACAS website specifies that the college can speak during the meeting, too many managers use this to their benefit.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: lackofinterest on 09-01-17, 10:57PM
i'd believe loki before any manager or rep in my store :-*
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: Equalizer87 on 09-01-17, 11:03PM
@ lackofinterest

 :thumbup: :thumbup:

I have never trusted a Tesco manager.
Title: Re: Representation
Post by: lackofinterest on 09-01-17, 11:19PM
i've never trusted a rep in my store :D