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Very Little Helps => Union matters. => Topic started by: dfl on 04-01-17, 05:24AM

Title: Investigatory
Post by: dfl on 04-01-17, 05:24AM
Hi,
I've seen several comments here where people are asking if they should be given notice to attend an investigatory meeting, some say no letter or notice is require but i also noticed Loki on here who seems extremely knowledgeable and helpful posted that there should be a letter sent giving at least 24 hrs notice, does anyone know what is fact on this subject.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Expressdude2016 on 04-01-17, 07:47AM
Hi DFL 

No there is no notice nor a letter required for an investigatory meeting as this meeting is a fact finding meeting. You can find out about it all at ourtesco in people policies section.  The person accused of wrong doing may ask for further time or meeting as can the person doing investigatory. Time scales are to do it within 14 days however may take longer.

https://www.ourtesco.com/working-at-tesco/people-policies/job-career/disciplinary-2016/ (https://www.ourtesco.com/working-at-tesco/people-policies/job-career/disciplinary-2016/)


https://cdn.ourtesco.com/2016/05/Investigation-checklist-May16.pdf (https://cdn.ourtesco.com/2016/05/Investigation-checklist-May16.pdf)
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: dfl on 04-01-17, 09:06AM
Section 5 of the checklist is as follows:-

Send a letter inviting the colleague to an investigation meeting (24 hours’ notice)

Comments ?
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Expressdude2016 on 04-01-17, 10:15AM
Only comment is I have egg on my face and an idiot.  Yes letter and 24 hrs notice is given
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: dfl on 04-01-17, 10:57AM
Sorry didn't mean to pick you up on that if that is how I came across, just noticed it upon reading it. Very grateful you took the time to reply. Thank you and have a nice new year.
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: dfl on 04-01-17, 07:45PM
If investigatory involves a complaint against a colleague and there had been more than one occasion, no witnesses, colleagues word against member of public, outcome imho should be no action and this is where it gets interesting, an investigatory is decided on the balance of probabilities and I get that, whether I agree with it or not is a different story.  However if tesco take word of public over employees isn't the employer then breaching an actual contractual term with the employee of the duty of care type.
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: sep1985 on 06-01-17, 10:05PM
Hi,
I've seen several comments here where people are asking if they should be given notice to attend an investigatory meeting, some say no letter or notice is require but i also noticed Loki on here who seems extremely knowledgeable and helpful posted that there should be a letter sent giving at least 24 hrs notice, does anyone know what is fact on this subject.

Thanks.

In line with new policies, you MUST get a letter inviting you to attend an investigation meeting stating the time and place and who it's with
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: avfc82 on 08-02-17, 09:24PM
A colleague of mine has been given a letter giving her notice of an investigatory meeting but the meeting has been arranged on her day off?  Is this allowed and if she agrees should she be paid for her time at the meeting?
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Expressdude2016 on 08-02-17, 09:47PM
It should be held in work time. Yes if they agree they should clockin and make sure they get paid. I would tell them no and it must be re arranged for her contracted shifts.
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: avfc82 on 08-02-17, 09:58PM
Thanks,  should the meeting be held within a time period.  The incident happened 3 weeks ago?  But also in this time she has been off sick for 3 days and also on holiday?
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Expressdude2016 on 08-02-17, 10:25PM
Theres no specific time period for commencement of investigatory but should be as soon as possible but holidays and sickness would be mitigating circumstances for delay. Once started it should be completed within 14 days. see link below

https://cdn.ourtesco.com/2016/04/02164645/Disciplinary-Policy-Jan17_V3.1.pdf
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Cheekymonkey007 on 08-02-17, 11:02PM
Hi express dude ... seems like I'm stalking you, but, lol - do you have any link to show that any holidays owed after April are to be carried over ...I can't see any 🙄
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Expressdude2016 on 08-02-17, 11:05PM
LOL   Nope but because you return mid march then it would not be possible for you to take your holidays and as your not on it at end of march then they wouldn't pay it so they should carry these over. Best speak to your SM or APM..
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Cheekymonkey007 on 08-02-17, 11:18PM
Thanks mate
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Expressdude2016 on 08-02-17, 11:27PM
cheekeymonkey this will help you

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4289 (http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4289)
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Cheekymonkey007 on 09-02-17, 12:53AM
Thanks ... again, I really value your input on here, more than this David 1 .. whom everyone raves about! X
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Expressdude2016 on 09-02-17, 12:56AM
Aww Thanks  :)
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Cheekymonkey007 on 09-02-17, 01:25AM
Your clued up .. ? We obvs only leak what we are told but I'm sceptical about this DM removal express dude .. I've been told 100% it's going, but is it just to make uncertainty and newbies jump ship???... which would not create the ideal redundancy package for Dave, most deputy I know In express are transferred from bigger stores trying to get to SM
... the funniest bit for me is the SMs who know nothing about their store -and will
Now have no DM to blame it on ! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼🎂
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Cheekymonkey007 on 09-02-17, 02:22AM
Anyone in this position ?
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: BossHog89 on 09-02-17, 11:11PM
I need some advice. One of the other team supports at work is getting investigated. One of the checkout staff made a complaint against him, the DM and SM reviewed his entire shift and wrote down every little rule bend he made throughout the day. This reviewing of CCTV was done based on a verbal complaint, then only afterwards with a big list they took the complaint formally with a note taker. Is any of this allowed?
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: optout on 09-02-17, 11:18PM
It is not acceptable.

contact/complain here for maximum effect


https://ico.org.uk/
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Daredevil on 24-07-17, 02:44AM
Cctv must not be used to review performance etc.Security and protection purposes only !
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Equalizer87 on 24-07-17, 04:34AM
Tell them to get the ICO involved as provided in a previous post. Tell them the entirety of the breach and the fact your colleague is being investigated with the footage.

£250,000 fine if it's proven to be the case and a sore arse for the SM responsible too.
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: JL on 24-07-17, 11:12AM
Investigatory  ;D

Let Tosco prove your guilt  :D
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Katvalo on 12-08-17, 10:21PM
I'm in need of some clarity. I was invited to an investigatory meeting with less than 24 hours notice, I was then sent a WhatsApp message later that evening telling me the time of the meeting needed to be changed. I never received a letter for this. Now I know this is against investigatory process but what I'm unsure of is during a meeting when it's adjourned is it now the investigating manager and note taker that now need to leave the room as this also didn't happen. It's now gone to a disciplinary meeting and I feel that the whole process hasn't been completed correctly.
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: MrK2017 on 12-08-17, 10:53PM
Hi. I am currently waiting for an investigatory. Just wanted to ask a few questions on some things before I go into it.

Firstly my APM is note taker.... is this right?? Surely if I had a problem during the meeting I should be able to contact my APM??

Secondly on the letter I received it says it is an "informal" meeting..... so should there even be a note taker for it??

And finally during any adjournment should it be the investigators that leave the room?? And I don't agree that my area manager gets to discuss the matter with the APM during the adjournments as I do believe this is unfair.

Any help would be most appreciated
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Expressdude2016 on 13-08-17, 12:32AM
Yes APM can take notes and yes even informal meetings can have note taker and you have right to representation. When you say apm discusses with area manager is the area manager the one holding the meeting .But yes they can discuss it. It is quite normal during adjournments that other advice is taken whether from apm am or gpm. If Apm is taking notes and you feel you have an issue then you can raise this with GPM for advice.
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Katvalo on 13-08-17, 08:39AM
I'm in need of some clarity. I was invited to an investigatory meeting with less than 24 hours notice, I was then sent a WhatsApp message later that evening telling me the time of the meeting needed to be changed. I never received a letter for this. Now I know this is against investigatory process but what I'm unsure of is during a meeting when it's adjourned is it now the investigating manager and note taker that now need to leave the room as this also didn't happen. It's now gone to a disciplinary meeting and I feel that the whole process hasn't been completed correctly.

I forgot to mention I've been in my job role 4 months and have a blemish free record for nearly 12 years. I've owned up to my mistake and I'm completely remorseful for what happened so surely this would be taken into consideration?
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: terra on 13-08-17, 08:45AM
Yes but would depend on what your mistake was
Are you in express?
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Katvalo on 13-08-17, 08:54AM
No I work in a Phoneshop in an extra store. It's for gross misconduct. The problem I also have is that the investigatory process wasn't followed correctly either, not given 24 hours notice of the meeting and then subsequent change of time which was sent to me through a WhatsApp message, also when the meeting was adjourned I was made to leave the room not the managers that were taking the meeting
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Me2015 on 13-08-17, 10:38AM
It all needs be done as per process for the outcome to hold any merit!  Letters inviting you to meeting must be 24hrs notice, any changes should be made in agreement with 2 parties and this should be noted.

You say Gross Misconduct; understandably you won't want to say what that is, however, this is deemed as 'sackable' so it must have been a pretty serious allegation being made against you!

Notwithstanding the allegation, if the process has not been followed to the letter, an appeal will always win!
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: MrK2017 on 13-08-17, 11:08AM
Mine is technically gross misconduct as I posted a small comment on Facebook that they are claiming puts the company in disrepute. Even though the comment I wrote was firstly a joke and secondly hardly worth the hassle of an investigatory. So gross misconduct should surely mean suspension?? Could do with an extra couple of days off.

I am in express and a store manager. Hence why the meeting is being done by the area manager. I still don't agree that the personnel manager is the one note taking when in theory they should be there if I have a problem??
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Katvalo on 13-08-17, 11:22AM
It all needs be done as per process for the outcome to hold any merit!  Letters inviting you to meeting must be 24hrs notice, any changes should be made in agreement with 2 parties and this should be noted.

You say Gross Misconduct; understandably you won't want to say what that is, however, this is deemed as 'sackable' so it must have been a pretty serious allegation being made against you!

Notwithstanding the allegation, if the process has not been followed to the letter, an appeal will always win!

It's was for breach of code of conduct, I forgot to ask a question which ment a phone was upgraded fraudulently. I've heard my hands up to it and since the investigation I've been left in the shop on my own to carry on processing contracts which understandably I'm now uncomfortable in doing. It makes me wonder why I wasn't suspended?
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: terra on 13-08-17, 11:25AM
No someone from the personnel function has to take notes..this is were your advice would come from the union if you are a member. The APM is for the company in a disciplinary and you would be supported by a rep. And I once was given a first written warning and in the disciplinary they admitted they had totally not followed process I took it to appeal and lost...you one have one stage of appeal and the SD in my case just covered up for a Store Manager knowing I could do nothing about it.
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: terra on 13-08-17, 11:27AM
If you had been suspended you almost certainly would be dismissed. As you haven't it is more likely you won't and if you were you could also bring that into any appeal
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Katvalo on 13-08-17, 11:32AM
Should I bring these points up in my disciplinary? I obviously don't want it to get to the point of being sacked and I'm truly remorseful for what I've done but if they've clearly not followed all parts of the investigatory process I shouldn't be dismissed? I deserve to be disciplined for my actions as if I were in there shoes I would do the same.
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: MrK2017 on 13-08-17, 11:33AM
Ok cool thank you. I always do try and get one over on them when situations like this arise and I'm someone's rep. However seems like they are doing everything right so far which is a shame.

Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: MrK2017 on 13-08-17, 11:37AM
I would katvalo it seems like your no threat to the company otherwise you would have been suspended. Doesn't mean they still won't suspend you after the investigory. However seems like they can't afford to lose you in the phone shop which is usually why they don't suspend
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Katvalo on 13-08-17, 11:41AM
Global Moderator Comment Please do not quote immediately prior post(s).

I've already had my investigatory and wasn't suspended after that. It was a stupid mistake, one which has never happened before in my career. Never been in an investigatory for anything performance based in the 12 years of working for them.
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: MrK2017 on 13-08-17, 11:43AM
You'll be fine then. Your not deemed a threat. It'll be a slap on the wrist or a warning.
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Katvalo on 13-08-17, 11:45AM
Obviously I'm just so worried, I've got a little girl to look after now and to be honest I'm so disappointed in myself for ever getting in this situation.
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: MrK2017 on 13-08-17, 12:44PM
You'll be fine. You made an honest mistake and owned up to it which is why they've been ok. We all make mistakes.
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: MrK2017 on 14-08-17, 04:46PM
Hi I'm in desperate need of advice. I had my investigatory and it's been forwarded to disciplinary. That's fine no problem. However I have been told that the rep I want cannot do it due to him investigating another member of staff for the same offence. Apparently if I decide to appeal the decision he would then be questioned.

Is this right??
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: terra on 14-08-17, 05:13PM
There is a potential conflict for the Rep but you are entitled to the Rep of your choice, another manager can do the investigation
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: MrK2017 on 14-08-17, 05:35PM
This is the thing he has not investigated myself, and has not been in contact with regards to the investigatory he did on the other colleague. He is the only person in our group that I trust. I cannot think of another store manager that I do trust
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Nomad on 14-08-17, 05:42PM
....... However I have been told that the rep I want cannot do it due to him investigating another member of staff for the same offence...
I must be having an off day because I just don't understand this, a rep investigating a member of staff ?
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: MrK2017 on 14-08-17, 05:45PM
Lol sorry just angry at the moment.


He investigated someone else for the same reason I was investigated but I was investigated by someone else today and it's been referred to disciplinary. I want the person that investigated the other colleague to be my rep
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Katvalo on 14-08-17, 06:00PM
I honestly don't see why he can't rep you, if he's the rep of your choice and hasn't been involved in this investigation then I don't see a problem
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: MrK2017 on 14-08-17, 06:03PM
I know. But because he investigated someone else related to it he apparently can't. It's so frustrating as there is nothing within Tesco procedures that says he can't rep me. It clearly states anyone of my choice
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Nomad on 14-08-17, 07:36PM
Is the rep you want also a manager ?
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: MrK2017 on 14-08-17, 08:47PM
Yea we're both store managers.

Also can you get investigatory reopened once it's closed before the disciplinary
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: terra on 14-08-17, 09:18PM
Not really but you can bring new evidence to a disciplinary and the disciplinary officer can send it back to be reinvestigated if they are not happy
Title: Re: Investigatory
Post by: Openandhonest on 14-08-17, 09:25PM
MrK2017

By the looks the procedure has been flawed.

Do not highlight this to them. Just attend yourself or with anyone else and let them be as ruthless as possible.

If you receive a warning just appeal it highlighting the issues with procedure.  :thumbup: